Jafar's sig line

[SassyLady]

اشهد ان لا اله الا الله و اشهد ان محمدا رسول الله



Translation:


I bear witness that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah

Jafar, do you believe there are any other messenger's of Allah/God?

[jafar00]

Translation:


Jafar, do you believe there are any other messenger's of Allah/God?

Yes I do :)

[aboutime]

Translation:



Jafar, do you believe there are any other messenger's of Allah/God?



SassyLady. I did a GOOGLE interpret language tool, and that translation actually says "OBAMA is the One, True messenger of IDIOTS".

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

SassyLady. I did a GOOGLE interpret language tool, and that translation actually says "OBAMA is the One, True messenger of IDIOTS".

Actually the translation of that sig is this.
God is God but Allah and his boy Mohammad are servants of Lucifer..
I am just a bit new at this translation stuff , ciphering and all but thats pretty close .....-;)-Tyr

[gabosaurus]

Correctly translated, Jafar's sig line reads:

"Allah, please show mercy to the ignorant crackpots who spam DP daily with hateful garbage."

[Dilloduck]

Actually the translation of that sig is this.
God is God but Allah and his boy Mohammad are servants of Lucifer..
I am just a bit new at this translation stuff , ciphering and all but thats pretty close .....-;)-Tyr

ahhh this explains the difficulty you had "studying Islam" for 10 years.

[MtnBiker]

Correctly translated, Jafar's sig line reads:

"Allah, please show mercy to the ignorant crackpots who spam DP daily with hateful garbage."

It is good that you translated that for yourself.

[Robert A Whit]

I asked some Iranian friends about learning Arabic. I learned that they write from your right to your left. Backwards to how we write.

[aboutime]

Correctly translated, Jafar's sig line reads:

"Allah, please show mercy to the ignorant crackpots who spam DP daily with hateful garbage."



Actually gabby. All we have to do in translating that line into English is...replace the word 'crackpots' with Gabosaurus.
The TRUTH always hurts. Doesn't it?

[gabosaurus]

It is good that you translated that for yourself.

How wonderful that MtnBiker descends from Mount Olympus every month or so to entertain us with his insignificant platitudes. :rolleyes:

[jimnyc]

As Jafar had this in place already, it remains. The original rule was "English only" so everyone understands what is written. Somewhere amongst all of the changes this got lost, and will ultimately be corrected. Jafar's sig will remain though as I'm not going to make it appear as if someone is being picked on, and he was 100% within the rules when he placed it up. The reason for this rule is that obviously the majority of the board won't understand if someone posts in a language other than English.

[aboutime]

As Jafar had this in place already, it remains. The original rule was "English only" so everyone understands what is written. Somewhere amongst all of the changes this got lost, and will ultimately be corrected. Jafar's sig will remain though as I'm not going to make it appear as if someone is being picked on, and he was 100% within the rules when he placed it up. The reason for this rule is that obviously the majority of the board won't understand if someone posts in a language other than English.


jimnyc: I really don't care how jafar's signature looks. In fact. When I see it. It reminds me that he has lied to all of us in the past. And now. Hiding behind his Arabic signature. Only strengthens my anger, and distrust of someone who would BETRAY every member of this forum without blinking an eye.

So. I appreciate such a hate-generated signature. And I will treat it as such.

[jafar00]

Amazing. I can't believe a little sig line has caused so much discussion.

[Abbey Marie]

Amazing. I can't believe a little sig line has caused so much discussion.

Oh my, you haven't seen anything. :laugh2:

[aboutime]

Amazing. I can't believe a little sig line has caused so much discussion.



jafar. You confuse the word 'discussion' with the word TRUTH.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

As Jafar had this in place already, it remains. The original rule was "English only" so everyone understands what is written. Somewhere amongst all of the changes this got lost, and will ultimately be corrected. Jafar's sig will remain though as I'm not going to make it appear as if someone is being picked on, and he was 100% within the rules when he placed it up. The reason for this rule is that obviously the majority of the board won't understand if someone posts in a language other than English.

I have no problem with his sig line ..
I already translated it and it gave me a good laugh. Way to go Jafar..
I even dropped my muslim bungee jumping sig line because our friend Jafar complained about it . I guess I'm just getting too kind on my old age. Gonna have to work on that because soon I'll be almost human again..--;)-Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

How wonderful that MtnBiker descends from Mount Olympus every month or so to entertain us with his insignificant platitudes. :rolleyes:

Perhaps if you actually ever learn how little you truly know you'd thank Mtnbiker for educating you instead of snidely attempting to snipe at him..-Tyr

[jimnyc]

I have no problem with his sig line ..
I already translated it and it gave me a good laugh. Way to go Jafar..
I even dropped my muslim bungee jumping sig line because our friend Jafar complained about it . I guess I'm just getting too kind on my old age. Gonna have to work on that because soon I'll be almost human again..--;)-Tyr

Oh, I know, I just wanted to make it clear why it was acceptable, as many may have remembered that it was English only. I don't have a problem with anyone and their relationship with God, or no God, so long as they are peaceful in life, and respectable when they do so here.

[jafar00]

jafar. You confuse the word 'discussion' with the word TRUTH.

Sassylady posted the truth. The rest is just infantile.

[aboutime]

Sassylady posted the truth. The rest is just infantile.


Good for you. So, when do you intend to grow up, and practice telling the truth?

[jafar00]

Good for you. So, when do you intend to grow up, and practice telling the truth?

I always speak the truth. Lying is haram.

[SassyLady]

Sassylady posted the truth. The rest is just infantile.

Jafar, I only asked because I find it interesting that there are so many prophets throughout history and I just wanted your personal take on it. You answered and I appreciated it. Sorry that so many bastardized your signature.

[jafar00]

Jafar, I only asked because I find it interesting that there are so many prophets throughout history and I just wanted your personal take on it. You answered and I appreciated it. Sorry that so many bastardized your signature.

The Qur'aan has many of the Prophets in it that you may know such as Adam, Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Moses, David, Jesus (as). Actually 25 of them are mentioned there. According to Islamic thought, there were actually about 124,000 Prophets or Messengers of God! Most were sent to specific people only. Mohamed (saw) was sent as a mercy to mankind to remind us of the message. The same message sent by God throughout time.

[SassyLady]

The Qur'aan has many of the Prophets in it that you may know such as Adam, Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Moses, David, Jesus (as). Actually 25 of them are mentioned there. According to Islamic thought, there were actually about 124,000 Prophets or Messengers of God! Most were sent to specific people only. Mohamed (saw) was sent as a mercy to mankind to remind us of the message. The same message sent by God throughout time.

I believe there are many, many more that are not recorded.

[aboutime]

Jafar, I only asked because I find it interesting that there are so many prophets throughout history and I just wanted your personal take on it. You answered and I appreciated it. Sorry that so many bastardized your signature.



SassyLady. Gotta disagree with you on the bastardization of jafar's signature.

If there was any Bastardization being done. jafar did it himself by posting it as a means of generating whatever his goal was here.

I trust jafar as much as I trust Obama, or anyone who follows him.

Jafar is nothing more than a Muslim Brotherhood messenger who is attempting to infiltrate, and gain your kind of support.

[SassyLady]

abouttime .... one of the things you'll learn about me is that I think for myself, and that means I don't always jump on your bandwagon. Sometimes I will agree with you and sometimes I won't.

I still stand by my bastardization statement ..... I never did find a translation that matched what you said.

Jafar has not gained my support in anything other than the fact that he answered my question without personally attacking me for asking. That is the end of the story and I'm sorry that you want to vilify me through association. I believe that is a basic tenet of the progressive liberals, not open minded individuals.

[aboutime]

abouttime .... one of the things you'll learn about me is that I think for myself, and that means I don't always jump on your bandwagon. Sometimes I will agree with you and sometimes I won't.

I still stand by my bastardization statement ..... I never did find a translation that matched what you said.

Jafar has not gained my support in anything other than the fact that he answered my question without personally attacking me for asking. That is the end of the story and I'm sorry that you want to vilify me through association. I believe that is a basic tenet of the progressive liberals, not open minded individuals.

SassyLady. I admire, and appreciate what you said. Honestly I do. As for you finding a translation that matched what I said.

I was being cynical, and joking about My Interpretation...I made up. Sorry for the confusion. No way was I intending to vilify you for any reason. If you took it that way. I am deeply sorry, and apologize for not being clearer here.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Has anyone considered the possibility that Jafar is 'not' Islamic, and is just messing with everyone?

[jimnyc]

Has anyone considered the possibility that Jafar is 'not' Islamic, and is just messing with everyone?

He is. No one could possibly be as defensive of Islam as he is unless they are a Muslim. He's a decent bloke, and I'm confident deeply religious and peaceful, but defensive of anyone speaking of the negative things in Islam nonetheless.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Has anyone considered the possibility that Jafar is 'not' Islamic, and is just messing with everyone?

I believe that Jim summed it up correctly about Jafar. Most likely a very religious and decent guy that clearly can not see the problems within Islam.

[jafar00]

I believe that Jim summed it up correctly about Jafar. Most likely a very religious and decent guy that clearly can not see the problems within Islam.

Thanks Tyr, but there is no problem with Islam. The problem is with people and politics. What the Islamic world needs is the removal of these secularist dictators and their replacement with good Islamic rulers.

[aboutime]

I will not, and can not suddenly reverse my feelings, or opinions about jafar. Just to please someone else, or to agree in order to remain a friendly voice.
Like the Oath I took six times during my years in the Military. I will not forfeit my principles, or standards as a means of bending over to accept Obama's second term, or that jafar has been, and still is more of an insincere member here who defends the Enemies of our nation.

That Oath I took, did not expire, or retire when I retired.

If this offends, or bothers any other member here. Oh well.

I refuse to back down, or give up for anyone to appease for any reason.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Thanks Tyr, but there is no problem with Islam. The problem is with people and politics. What the Islamic world needs is the removal of these secularist dictators and their replacement with good Islamic rulers.

So, you support the stoning of women 'found guilty' of being raped, while the rapists themselves suffer no punishment? This is not a 'problem' with Islam?

[jafar00]

So, you support the stoning of women 'found guilty' of being raped, while the rapists themselves suffer no punishment? This is not a 'problem' with Islam?

No I don't support that at all. It is not an Islamic position.

As for rapists not being punished...


ABU DHABI // The Supreme Court yesterday confirmed the death penalty for a man who raped a woman and left her in the desert.

Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/courts/death-penalty-for-desert-rapist#ixzz2BgpXkQe8
Follow us: @TheNationalUAE on Twitter (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=dWaPA6hc8r4PVbacwqm_6l&u=TheNationalUAE) | thenational.ae on Facebook (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=dWaPA6hc8r4PVbacwqm_6l&u=thenational.ae)

.. along with another case I posted in another thread where a rapist was given 50 years jail plus 24 lashes in Malaysia.

This just highlights the danger of using the worst of the worst cases from Iran and the Taliban and promoting those worst cases as a representation of Islam in order to advance an anti Islam agenda.

[aboutime]

No I don't support that at all. It is not an Islamic position.

As for rapists not being punished...



.. along with another case I posted in another thread where a rapist was given 50 years jail plus 24 lashes in Malaysia.

This just highlights the danger of using the worst of the worst cases from Iran and the Taliban and promoting those worst cases as a representation of Islam in order to advance an anti Islam agenda.


More intentional omissions from jafar. Insisting 'It is not an Islamic position', while avoiding any mention of the Muslims whom he supports for doing what they do. Per the Religion of Peace.

[DragonStryk72]

Amazing. I can't believe a little sig line has caused so much discussion.

lol, happens.


But yeah, basically for Muslims, the line of Prophets didn't really end, and many Muslims even accept Jesus, though as a Prophet, not as the Christ.

[DragonStryk72]

More intentional omissions from jafar. Insisting 'It is not an Islamic position', while avoiding any mention of the Muslims whom he supports for doing what they do. Per the Religion of Peace.

What omission? He answered the question directly and without issue. And if we're gonna start quoting idiotic holy book rules, I've got about 50 pages of Leviticus that condemn every person here to death.

[jafar00]

More intentional omissions from jafar. Insisting 'It is not an Islamic position', while avoiding any mention of the Muslims whom he supports for doing what they do. Per the Religion of Peace.

You cannot use the actions of Al Shabab or Taliban, both of whom are rebel gangs of criminals as examples of Sharia law any more than you can use LRA actions as fine upstanding examples of Christianity.


lol, happens.


But yeah, basically for Muslims, the line of Prophets didn't really end, and many Muslims even accept Jesus, though as a Prophet, not as the Christ.

The line of Prophets did end with Mohamed (saw) who is known as the Seal of Prophets. We have a whole chapter of the Qur'aan dedicated to Jesus too :)

[KarlMarx]

Yes I do :)
Right, you'd have to believe that. Your religion recognizes all of the prophets of the old Testament (Isaiah, Ezekial, Daniel, Jeremiah, and the 12 minor prophets). Where Christian part company with you is one the subject of Jesus who we claim is the Son of God, and you think of as a prophet only and on the subject of Mohammed who we do not recognize at all and you consider the last prophet of God... I think I got that right, didn't I?

[jafar00]

Right, you'd have to believe that. Your religion recognizes all of the prophets of the old Testament (Isaiah, Ezekial, Daniel, Jeremiah, and the 12 minor prophets). Where Christian part company with you is one the subject of Jesus who we claim is the Son of God, and you think of as a prophet only and on the subject of Mohammed who we do not recognize at all and you consider the last prophet of God... I think I got that right, didn't I?

+1. You got it right :)

[Abbey Marie]

+1. You got it right :)

Then you would have to see Jesus as a lying Prophet, because everything he said and did was premised on the fact that He is the Son of God. Kinda pointless to believe in a Prophet who lies.

[jimnyc]

The line of Prophets did end with Mohamed (saw) who is known as the Seal of Prophets. We have a whole chapter of the Qur'aan dedicated to Jesus too :)

What is "saw"? I know I see "pbuh" a lot, "peace be upon him, but I never did know what (saw) stood for.

[Abbey Marie]

What is "saw"? I know I see "pbuh" a lot, "peace be upon him, but I never did know what (saw) stood for.

"Saw off anyone's head who disagrees"? :eek:

[jafar00]

Then you would have to see Jesus as a lying Prophet, because everything he said and did was premised on the fact that He is the Son of God. Kinda pointless to believe in Prophet who lies.

No we believe in the message that Jesus preached because he never once said that he was the son of God, nor did he claim to be a mortal incarnation of God. It's the Christians who created lies about him.


What is "saw"? I know I see "pbuh" a lot, "peace be upon him, but I never did know what (saw) stood for.

It's the same Peace be upon Him but in Arabic. Sallahu Alayhi Wassallim

[Abbey Marie]

No we believe in the message that Jesus preached because he never once said that he was the son of God, nor did he claim to be a mortal incarnation of God. It's the Christians who created lies about him.
...

Here are a couple of quick ones for you.

Jesus speaking:

"Truly, truly, before Abraham was born, I Am"
John 8:58

And:
“If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God."
John 8:42.

They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am."
Luke 22:70

You can try to deny it all you want, but Jesus did die because He was the Son of God. You are perverting the Bible for your own ends to say otherwise, and yet claim He is still a Prophet.

[tailfins]

As Jafar had this in place already, it remains. The original rule was "English only" so everyone understands what is written. Somewhere amongst all of the changes this got lost, and will ultimately be corrected. Jafar's sig will remain though as I'm not going to make it appear as if someone is being picked on, and he was 100% within the rules when he placed it up. The reason for this rule is that obviously the majority of the board won't understand if someone posts in a language other than English.

Que pena! Minha esposa esta excluida para passar a sabedoria dela para voces!

[jafar00]

Here are a couple of quick ones for you.

Jesus speaking:

"Truly, truly, before Abraham was born, I Am"
John 8:58

Of course, in the context, God had a plan to send Jesus (as) before Abraham came along. It doesn't mean he physically existed before Abraham, but he did exist as a part of God's plan.


And:
“If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God."
John 8:42.

From the NIV Bible

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.

How does this verse support the concept that Jesus (as) was the son of God? If anything, this verse contradicts the Trinity idea (1 John 5:7-8) which is written in "some" Bible translations but doesn't appear in the original manuscripts. But... I digress. This is another subject to discuss another time :)

They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am."
Luke 22:70

Which version of the bible are you using? I have looked at a few versions and they agree with the KJV.

Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

Or ASV

And they all said, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

Or even the Orthodox Jewish Bible

And everyone said, Then you are the Ben HaElohim? Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach said, You are saying that I am.

They are asking him if he is the son of God, and he replies that it is what they are saying. He doesn't say "you are right" at all.

You are putting words into his mouth.


You can try to deny it all you want, but Jesus did die because He was the Son of God. You are perverting the Bible for your own ends to say otherwise, and yet claim He is still a Prophet.

I wasn't the one who perverted the Bible. Perhaps it was whoever wrote yours who did it! :)

When you say he was A son of God, not THE BEGOTTEN son of God, then I would accept that. In a way we are all, in the language of the Bible, sons of God. In that way since we follow the command of God, then we are "sons" of God.

If you say that Jesus (as) is the son of God because he was born from Mary but without a father as a miracle from God, then what about Adam? Surely by that logic, he is an even greater son of God? He didn't have a father or a mother. :)

If you read the Bible,
Adam (as) is described as a son of God in Luke 3:38
Israel is described as a son of God in Exodus 4:22
In 1 Chronicles chapter 22, Solomon is the son of God
In Jeremiah 31:9, Ephraim is God's first born son!

How many sons can God have?

Once you realise that the word "son" is used not in a literal sense but in a metaphorical sense, you will see that Jesus (as) being God's begotten son is a bit of a fabrication.

[Abbey Marie]

Jafar,
You are free to believe as you wish (since we are not a Muslim Theocracy, anyway ). Gotta love how you are the expert on what the words of the Bible really mean. :rolleyes:
But there is no way that your convoluted twisting of the Bible will stand on this board as truth.
I have already posted some powerful verses that are clearly saying He is the Son of God. There are more. But I will leave it at that, since I am at this point casting pearls before swine.

[aboutime]

Jafar,
You are free to believe as you wish (since we are not a Muslim Theocracy, anyway ). Gotta love how you are the expert on what the words of the bible really mean. :rolleyes:
But there is no way that your convoluted twisting of the Bible will stand on this board as truth.
I have already posted some powerful verses that are clearly saying He is the Son of God. There are more. But I will leave it at that, since I am at this point casting pearls before swine.


Abbey. Jafar is only doing what he has been taught to do. Pretending. Just like our Idiot President, to know, and preach what THEY think only they are qualified to say, and demand from others.

Jafar's sole intent is to Bastardize the Teachings of the Bible. The very same way he teaches, and hides behind his Phony, Religion of Peace...that really doesn't mean Peace to those who disagree in any way. And Lose their Heads.

[Marcus Aurelius]

No we believe in the message that Jesus preached because he never once said that he was the son of God, nor did he claim to be a mortal incarnation of God. It's the Christians who created lies about him.



It's the same Peace be upon Him but in Arabic. Sallahu Alayhi Wassallim

Ok, now you went and did it.

Jesus DIRECTLY placed himself as the Son of God, many times, and INDIRECTLY as well, many times...


John 17:1 <cite> After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you."

</cite>
Mark 14:61-62 <cite> But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

</cite>
Matthew 11:27 <cite> "All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."

</cite>
John 1:49-50 <cite> Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel." Jesus said, "You believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You shall see greater things than that."

</cite>
Matthew 16:15-17 <cite> "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven."

</cite>
John 11:25-27 <cite> Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" "Yes, Lord," she told him, "I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who was to come into the world."


</cite>




You essentially just outed yourself as either a liar, a hypocrite, a false Muslim, or possibly all three.




<cite>
</cite>

[Marcus Aurelius]

Jafar,
You are free to believe as you wish (since we are not a Muslim Theocracy, anyway ). Gotta love how you are the expert on what the words of the Bible really mean. :rolleyes:
But there is no way that your convoluted twisting of the Bible will stand on this board as truth.
I have already posted some powerful verses that are clearly saying He is the Son of God. There are more. But I will leave it at that, since I am at this point casting pearls before swine.

but I thought Muslims can't eat pork... ;)

[Marcus Aurelius]

Jafar...

How do you reconcile these???


Surat Al-'An`am 6:12

Say, "To whom belongs whatever is in the heavens and earth?" Say, "To Allah ." He has decreed upon Himself mercy. He will surely assemble you for the Day of Resurrection, about which there is no doubt. Those who will lose themselves [that Day] do not believe.
If you don't believe, it's your fault...


Surat Yunus 10:100

And it is not for a soul to believe except by permission of Allah , and He will place defilement upon those who will not use reason.
Allah decides who believes...


???????????????????????????????????

[jimnyc]

Here's a scholar who did research on Christ and Christianity, and comes to the conclusion...


“The foundation of our religion is a basis of fact – the fact of the birth, ministry, miracles, death, resurrection by the Evangelists as having actually occurred, within their own personal knowledge … it was therefore impossible that they could have persisted in affirming the truths they have narrated, had not Jesus actually rose from the dead, and had they not known this fact as certainly as they knew any other fact.”

and

“ the great character they have portrayed is perfect. It is the character of a sinless Being ; of one supremely wise and supremely good. It exhibits no error, no sinister intention, no imprudence, no ignorance, no evil passion, no impatience; in a word, no fault; but all is perfect uprightness, innocence, wisdom, goodness and truth.”

The entire framework of the Bible is based on reliable eyewitness accounts, which are the strongest form of legal evidence. These accounts include multiple eyewitness testimonies of the unique birth, life, miracles, death, bodily resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ.

Eyewitnesses included many people who knew Christ face to face for three years, such as the Apostles, so they could not have mistaken His identity. They saw, heard, touched, ate and drank with Christ after His bodily resurrection for 40 days. This overwhelming physical evidence overcame their initial incredulity and disbelief. They were so sure of their experience that they were also willing to die for what they knew to be true. People may sometimes die for a lie, but for a large group of individuals to all willingly endure severe persecution throughout their lives and die torturous deaths for something they know to be a lie (which they certainly would have known), doesn’t happen.

There are many miracles recorded in the gospel records, but not a single conflict in prepositional logic among the accounts. Therefore, there is no logical or historical reason to consider these accounts as invalid (barring devotion to the atheistic/naturalistic ‘religious’ assumption that miracles are impossible). As expected with genuine eyewitness accounts, and as I have personally witnessed in jury trials, different witnesses in the Bible’s Gospel records naturally focus on different people and events. If the Gospel accounts matched exactly, this would make their independence suspect, and they would be less credible from a legal perspective.

http://www.miraclesormagic.com/resurrection-jesus-christ-evidence-proof.html

Now, of course I can be obtuse and proclaim Muslims have lied before and after the Quran. Even a bunch of Muslims, that "some" people claim aren't Muslims, tend to think of Muhammed as more of a drunkard, while following the word of Allah/God still.

Obviously it's called "faith" for a reason, as I have a sneaky suspicion that no one here has actually met Muhammed, Jesus or God. But I'm not so sure it's wise to claim one religion or another "lied" about their "faith", and if so, certainly shouldn't get defensive when their religion has stones cast at it, or at least should understand why.

[jafar00]

Jafar,
You are free to believe as you wish (since we are not a Muslim Theocracy, anyway ). Gotta love how you are the expert on what the words of the Bible really mean. :rolleyes:
But there is no way that your convoluted twisting of the Bible will stand on this board as truth.
I have already posted some powerful verses that are clearly saying He is the Son of God. There are more. But I will leave it at that, since I am at this point casting pearls before swine.

I have studied both religions being a westerner weaned on Christianity, but I ended up as a Muslim after much research. I can speak about both religions.


Abbey. Jafar is only doing what he has been taught to do. Pretending. Just like our Idiot President, to know, and preach what THEY think only they are qualified to say, and demand from others.

Jafar's sole intent is to Bastardize the Teachings of the Bible. The very same way he teaches, and hides behind his Phony, Religion of Peace...that really doesn't mean Peace to those who disagree in any way. And Lose their Heads.

Can't you just stay out of the discussion unless you have something apart from insults to throw?


Jafar...

How do you reconcile these???

I will explain the verses as I understand them but I don't know what you mean by reconciling them?


Surat Al-'An`am 6:12

If you don't believe, it's your fault...

There are those who will still not believe even on the day of judgement as they stand before Allah.


Surat Yunus 10:100

Allah decides who believes...


That verse was revealed about Abu Talib, Mohamed's (saw) Uncle who did not accept Islam before his death. Even on his death bed as Mohamed (saw) tried to save him, he still stuck by the religion (paganism) of his father. Mohamed (saw) said he would pray for him until it was forbidden by Allah. Soon after, the following was revealed...

It is not for the Prophet, and those who believe, to pray for the forgiveness of idolaters even though they may be near of kin (to them) after it hath become clear that they are people of hell-fire. (9:113)


Ok, now you went and did it.

Jesus DIRECTLY placed himself as the Son of God, many times, and INDIRECTLY as well, many times...


Again, we run into a problem of whether the English translation of whatever you are quoting is accurate, and also the age old problem of the literal son verses the metaphorical son. There is the same thing in the Qur'aan when Allah uses the "royal" we often but it doesn't mean that He is describing Himself as a multiple personality.

Then there has been much debate as to the validity of the gospels since none of the writers actually met Jesus (as). They are based on heresay with the earliest gospels almost 100 years removed from when Jesus (as) actually lived.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Then there has been much debate as to the validity of the gospels since none of the writers actually met Jesus (as). They are based on heresay with the earliest gospels almost 100 years removed from when Jesus (as) actually lived.



http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/

Ultimately, the strongest, most serious problem of the Qur'an is that it affirms the scriptures of the Jews and the Christians as authentic and true revelation from God (cf. what the Qur'an says about the Bible (http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Bible/index.html)), while radically denying central aspects of their message, e.g. the core themes of sacrifice and atonement in the Torah, the crucifixion of Jesus (http://answering-islam.org/Cross/index.html), the deity of Jesus (http://answering-islam.org/Who/index.html) and even the mere messianic title "Son of God" (http://answering-islam.org/Hahn/son.html) for Jesus, the very nature of God (http://answering-islam.org/God/index.html), the fall and the sinfulness of man (* (http://answering-islam.org/Theology/fallen.html), * (http://answering-islam.org/Hahn/fall.html)), necessity and means of salvation, etc. For this reason Muslims had to invent the unwarranted theory of corruption of the earlier scriptures, even against the clear testimony of the Qur'an itself.

Jafar... explain why the Qur'an affirms the scriptures of the Jews (Old testament), and the Christians (new testament) as revelations from God... yet you claim the Bible is based on hearsay and is not valid?

You claim to be a practicing Muslim... how can the Bible be both from God, and based on hearsay?

(this should be good, folks)

[jafar00]

http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/


Jafar... explain why the Qur'an affirms the scriptures of the Jews (Old testament), and the Christians (new testament) as revelations from God... yet you claim the Bible is based on hearsay and is not valid?

You claim to be a practicing Muslim... how can the Bible be both from God, and based on hearsay?

(this should be good, folks)

The Qur'aan confirms the validity of the Injil (The original gospel of Jesus (as) as it was when he revealed it to his companions before it was in written form and corrupted) and the Torah. The writings of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are not included in that.

[aboutime]

The Qur'aan confirms the validity of the Injil (The original gospel of Jesus (as) as it was when he revealed it to his companions before it was in written form and corrupted) and the Torah. The writings of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are not included in that.



jafar. You really could save yourself MUCH EMBARRASSMENT if you just told the Truth, and admitted...in your own mind. You are a FALSE PROPHET who could do better as a USED CAR SALESMAN.

[jafar00]

jafar. You really could save yourself MUCH EMBARRASSMENT if you just told the Truth, and admitted...in your own mind. You are a FALSE PROPHET who could do better as a USED CAR SALESMAN.

Do you have nothing left except insults?

[Marcus Aurelius]

The Qur'aan confirms the validity of the Injil (The original gospel of Jesus (as) as it was when he revealed it to his companions before it was in written form and corrupted) and the Torah. The writings of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are not included in that.

If you do not HAVE it from prior to when it was written down, how do you KNOW it was 'corrupted'?

You don't. You ASSUME.

[jafar00]

If you do not HAVE it from prior to when it was written down, how do you KNOW it was 'corrupted'?

You don't. You ASSUME.

But God knows. That is the point! :) The Qur'aan is the world of God so it is He who is speaking about the Injil and Torah and they are not the same thing as this book called "The Bible".

[aboutime]

But God knows. That is the point! :) The Qur'aan is the world of God so it is He who is speaking about the Injil and Torah and they are not the same thing as this book called "The Bible".


jafar. What a Bigot, Racist, Hypocrite, and Liar you really are. Thanks for proving it for everyone. You really do sound like Obama.

[jafar00]

jafar. What a Bigot, Racist, Hypocrite, and Liar you really are. Thanks for proving it for everyone. You really do sound like Obama.

You only have insults to fall back on since you know I am right.

[tailfins]

You only have insults to fall back on since you know I am right.


I know the above isn't directed at me, but this is my point over view: Spiritually I think you are lost and hell-bound. On a secular level, I deal with people based on what to extent they are a good citizen. I haven't seen evidence you are anything but a good citizen.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=592488#post592488)

If you do not HAVE it from prior to when it was written down, how do you KNOW it was 'corrupted'?

You don't. You ASSUME.



But God knows. That is the point! :) The Qur'aan is the world of God so it is He who is speaking about the Injil and Torah and they are not the same thing as this book called "The Bible".

those are not facts, those are your opinions.

Just as it is my opinion that the Qur'an is not the word of God, but that the Bible is... and that Mohammed was not a prophet of God, and that Jesus is the Son of God. I have no facts there... those are my opinions/beliefs.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Of course, in the context, God had a plan to send Jesus (as) before Abraham came along. It doesn't mean he physically existed before Abraham, but he did exist as a part of God's plan.



From the NIV Bible

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.

How does this verse support the concept that Jesus (as) was the son of God? If anything, this verse contradicts the Trinity idea (1 John 5:7-8) which is written in "some" Bible translations but doesn't appear in the original manuscripts. But... I digress. This is another subject to discuss another time :)


Which version of the bible are you using? I have looked at a few versions and they agree with the KJV.

Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

Or ASV

And they all said, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

Or even the Orthodox Jewish Bible

And everyone said, Then you are the Ben HaElohim? Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach said, You are saying that I am.

They are asking him if he is the son of God, and he replies that it is what they are saying. He doesn't say "you are right" at all.

You are putting words into his mouth.



I wasn't the one who perverted the Bible. Perhaps it was whoever wrote yours who did it! :)

When you say he was A son of God, not THE BEGOTTEN son of God, then I would accept that. In a way we are all, in the language of the Bible, sons of God. In that way since we follow the command of God, then we are "sons" of God.

If you say that Jesus (as) is the son of God because he was born from Mary but without a father as a miracle from God, then what about Adam? Surely by that logic, he is an even greater son of God? He didn't have a father or a mother. :)

If you read the Bible,
Adam (as) is described as a son of God in Luke 3:38
Israel is described as a son of God in Exodus 4:22
In 1 Chronicles chapter 22, Solomon is the son of God
In Jeremiah 31:9, Ephraim is God's first born son!

How many sons can God have?

Once you realise that the word "son" is used not in a literal sense but in a metaphorical sense, you will see that Jesus (as) being God's begotten son is a bit of a fabrication.

you seem to enjoy trying to poke holes in other peoples faith... more specifically, Christian's faith.

I wonder how you'd feel if someone told you Mohammed was not a prophet of God, and that you are deluded in thinking he was... that the Qur'an is nothing more than the drunk fantasies of a sexually depraved man...

[Marcus Aurelius]

Jafar,
You are free to believe as you wish (since we are not a Muslim Theocracy, anyway ). Gotta love how you are the expert on what the words of the Bible really mean. :rolleyes:
But there is no way that your convoluted twisting of the Bible will stand on this board as truth.
I have already posted some powerful verses that are clearly saying He is the Son of God. There are more. But I will leave it at that, since I am at this point casting pearls before swine.

It is rather interesting that he is an expert on what the Bible really means, but he rejects what anyone else posts as to the meaning of passages in the Qur'an.

[jafar00]

those are not facts, those are your opinions.

Just as it is my opinion that the Qur'an is not the word of God, but that the Bible is... and that Mohammed was not a prophet of God, and that Jesus is the Son of God. I have no facts there... those are my opinions/beliefs.

You posted quotes from the Qur'aan and your personal interpretation about what is written. However you got the wrong idea and I helped set you right based on what I know from my Islamic studies and from referring to Tafsir (Qur'aan commentary) which is a useful resource when trying to determine the context of a particular verse.

The Qur'aan was revealed to Mohamed (saw) through the Angel Gabriel just as God revealed the Injil (gospels) to Jesus (as). Unlike the Qur'aan, the Injil was not recorded as it was revealed, but was put together many decades after Jesus (as) ascended to heaven. This is why your New Testament is not the same as the Injil mentioned in the Qur'aan.


you seem to enjoy trying to poke holes in other peoples faith... more specifically, Christian's faith.

I wonder how you'd feel if someone told you Mohammed was not a prophet of God, and that you are deluded in thinking he was... that the Qur'an is nothing more than the drunk fantasies of a sexually depraved man...

I don't mean to offend you and if I have, I apologise. From studying both religions, I came to the conclusion long ago that Islam just made more sense than Christianity. As for insults against Mohamed (saw), I get them constantly so I have developed a thick skin and generally ignore it. ;)


It is rather interesting that he is an expert on what the Bible really means, but he rejects what anyone else posts as to the meaning of passages in the Qur'an.

When you post something that is wrong, the mistake should be corrected. No?

[tailfins]

It is rather interesting that he is an expert on what the Bible really means, but he rejects what anyone else posts as to the meaning of passages in the Qur'an.

Debating the Bible versus the Koran with a true believer is like going to Havana spending time debating free enterprise versus socialism at a Committee for the Defense of the Revolution location. The time is much better spent talking to the average person on the street how they live under the regime. The "fruit" borne by Islam is enough for me to reject it.

Any Muslim who is a decent person or good citizen is so IN SPITE OF, not because of Islam.

[Marcus Aurelius]

You posted quotes from the Qur'aan and your personal interpretation about what is written. However you got the wrong idea and I helped set you right based on what I know from my Islamic studies and from referring to Tafsir (Qur'aan commentary) which is a useful resource when trying to determine the context of a particular verse.

The Qur'aan was revealed to Mohamed (saw) through the Angel Gabriel just as God revealed the Injil (gospels) to Jesus (as). Unlike the Qur'aan, the Injil was not recorded as it was revealed, but was put together many decades after Jesus (as) ascended to heaven. This is why your New Testament is not the same as the Injil mentioned in the Qur'aan.



I don't mean to offend you and if I have, I apologise. From studying both religions, I came to the conclusion long ago that Islam just made more sense than Christianity. As for insults against Mohamed (saw), I get them constantly so I have developed a thick skin and generally ignore it. ;)



When you post something that is wrong, the mistake should be corrected. No?

Again, it is simply your opinion. You have no factual, scientific evidence to back up your statements.You are ASSuming you are right, and people like me are wrong. You're certainly entitled to that opinion, as we are entitled to ours.

Let's try this...

Suppose your wife were caught in the act of adultery. Suppose further she was not repentant, did not deny it, and so on.

Now, according to Islamic law, the penalty is as follows...
http://www.islamicvoice.com/april.99/dialogue.htm

The woman and the man guilty of unlawful sex (adultery or fornication), flog each of them with a hundred stripes; let not compassion move you in their case in a matter prescribed by Allah if ye believe in Allah and the Last day; and let a party of the believers witness their punishment”. (24:2)

Would you support that punishment on her, fully, without remorse or equivocation?

[Marcus Aurelius]

...Once you realise that the word "son" is used not in a literal sense but in a metaphorical sense, you will see that Jesus (as) being God's begotten son is a bit of a fabrication.

So, you are calling Jesus Himself, a liar. Is it normal in Islam to call one revered as a prophet, a liar?

[aboutime]

You only have insults to fall back on since you know I am right.


jafar. What you call "Insults". I call FACTS. Or better yet. The Truth. And NO. You are not right. You are a phony.
A FALSE PROPHET who brings your hatred with every word.

You are the DEBATE POLICY's version of our LIAR-IN-CHIEF...Obama.

[jafar00]

Again, it is simply your opinion. You have no factual, scientific evidence to back up your statements.You are ASSuming you are right, and people like me are wrong. You're certainly entitled to that opinion, as we are entitled to ours.

Let's try this...

Suppose your wife were caught in the act of adultery. Suppose further she was not repentant, did not deny it, and so on.

Now, according to Islamic law, the penalty is as follows...
http://www.islamicvoice.com/april.99/dialogue.htm


Would you support that punishment on her, fully, without remorse or equivocation?

What I say about religion is indeed based in fact and what scholars have spent years researching. Besides, what I know about the Qur'aan and Islam is what many Muslims learn in their studies and should know.

And yes. I would support the punishment prescribed in the Qur'aan if there was clear evidence and no false testimony.

Do you know what else?

Let's look at that verse in context.. Qur'aan 24:2-10

The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

The aforementioned punishment...

Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.

This verse was revealed about a group among the Companions of the Prophet (saw) who wanted to marry some slaves from the people of the Book and Arab idolaters in Medina. These slaves were known adulteresses but these prophetic Companions wanted to marry them in order to win them over. When this verse was revealed they refrained from marrying them.

And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors

Bearing false witness is a major sin in Islam.

Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Whoever dies while in a state of repentance is forgiven their sins. So, if you bear false witness, then retract it never to bear false witness again you are not punished in this life or the afterlife.

And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth;

And the fifth (oath) (should be) that they solemnly invoke the curse of Allah on themselves if they tell a lie.

This is clear. I don't need to explain it.

But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times (with an oath) By Allah, that (her husband) is telling a lie;

And the fifth (oath) should be that she solemnly invokes the wrath of Allah on herself if (her accuser) is telling the truth.

You see, she can get out of the punishment by saying the husband falsely accused her.

If it were not for Allah's grace and mercy on you, and that Allah is Oft-Returning, full of Wisdom,- (Ye would be ruined indeed).

One of Allah's attributes is The Forgiver. Islam was made easy for us.



So, you are calling Jesus Himself, a liar. Is it normal in Islam to call one revered as a prophet, a liar?

I didn't call Jesus (as) a liar. I would never do that. Whoever spreads lies about such a great Prophet though is a wayward soul. The gospels of the new testament are such lies.


jafar. What you call "Insults". I call FACTS. Or better yet. The Truth. And NO. You are not right. You are a phony.
A FALSE PROPHET who brings your hatred with every word.

You are the DEBATE POLICY's version of our LIAR-IN-CHIEF...Obama.

More insults?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

What I say about religion is indeed based in fact and what scholars have spent years researching. Besides, what I know about the Qur'aan and Islam is what many Muslims learn in their studies and should know.

And yes. I would support the punishment prescribed in the Qur'aan if there was clear evidence and no false testimony.

Do you know what else?

Let's look at that verse in context.. Qur'aan 24:2-10

The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

The aforementioned punishment...

Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.

This verse was revealed about a group among the Companions of the Prophet (saw) who wanted to marry some slaves from the people of the Book and Arab idolaters in Medina. These slaves were known adulteresses but these prophetic Companions wanted to marry them in order to win them over. When this verse was revealed they refrained from marrying them.

And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors

Bearing false witness is a major sin in Islam.

Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Whoever dies while in a state of repentance is forgiven their sins. So, if you bear false witness, then retract it never to bear false witness again you are not punished in this life or the afterlife.

And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth;

And the fifth (oath) (should be) that they solemnly invoke the curse of Allah on themselves if they tell a lie.

This is clear. I don't need to explain it.

But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times (with an oath) By Allah, that (her husband) is telling a lie;

And the fifth (oath) should be that she solemnly invokes the wrath of Allah on herself if (her accuser) is telling the truth.

You see, she can get out of the punishment by saying the husband falsely accused her.

If it were not for Allah's grace and mercy on you, and that Allah is Oft-Returning, full of Wisdom,- (Ye would be ruined indeed).

One of Allah's attributes is The Forgiver. Islam was made easy for us.




I didn't call Jesus (as) a liar. I would never do that. Whoever spreads lies about such a great Prophet though is a wayward soul. The gospels of the new testament are such lies.



More insults?

All muslims are part of a cult. Why mince words let call it like it is. Islam is a totally false religion that worships Satan. Only the renamed Satan and call him Allah. You are as lost as any human can get. While you glory in your numbers God pays heed to his words about his chosen people the Jews. Eventually all muslims will be destroyed by God. A fact,, In the blink of an eye and then they are no more.. -Tyr

[jafar00]

All muslims are part of a cult. Why mince words let call it like it is. Islam is a totally false religion that worships Satan. Only the renamed Satan and call him Allah. You are as lost as any human can get. While you glory in your numbers God pays heed to his words about his chosen people the Jews. Eventually all muslims will be destroyed by God. A fact,, In the blink of an eye and then they are no more.. -Tyr

If Allah is the renamed satan, why do the Arabic speaking Christians also refer to God as Allah?

Perhaps it has something to do with Allah being the Arabic word for God?

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=592582#post592582)

So, you are calling Jesus Himself, a liar. Is it normal in Islam to call one revered as a prophet, a liar?


I didn't call Jesus (as) a liar. I would never do that. Whoever spreads lies about such a great Prophet though is a wayward soul. The gospels of the new testament are such lies.



Jesus Himself said multiple times He was the Son of God. You deny He is the Son of God. Ergo, you call Him a liar.

[Drummond]

So, you are calling Jesus Himself, a liar. Is it normal in Islam to call one revered as a prophet, a liar?
:clap::clap::clap:

[Drummond]

If Allah is the renamed satan, why do the Arabic speaking Christians also refer to God as Allah?

Perhaps it has something to do with Allah being the Arabic word for God?

I think you'll find that Tyr has covered this already, in pointing out that Islam is a false religion. Since it is, what point is there in trying to attribute any form of sanitising link with the name 'Allah' at all ?

[aboutime]

If Allah is the renamed satan, why do the Arabic speaking Christians also refer to God as Allah?

Perhaps it has something to do with Allah being the Arabic word for God?


jafar. If you had the courage to ANSWER as many questions as you always bring here. Even YOU, might learn something.
Otherwise. You remain a FALSE PROPHET, and absolute Phony who distorts the use of language to meet your endless needs to spread hatred everywhere you go.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

If Allah is the renamed satan, why do the Arabic speaking Christians also refer to God as Allah?

Perhaps it has something to do with Allah being the Arabic word for God?

Sure its not just the word its the entity that is worshipped and how its worshipped. If they are true Christians they bworship God, the one true God. Islam worships the child molester mohammad, Allah and a damn filty lying book -the Koran! They treat all three as if they are god. So Islam has its unholy trinity, how nice for Satan to give them their three to worship. I chose to go to Memphis this weekend to buy two Korans and then burn one and piss on the other. Is that blasphemy? Is that book God? Will muslim call for my execution?-Yes.
Now I have in my house 6 or 7 bibles and if I chose to do the same with two of them will fellow Christians demand that I be executed? Answer -NO!
You are a cult member , get used to it Jafar!--Tyr

[tailfins]

So, you are calling Jesus Himself, a liar. Is it normal in Islam to call one revered as a prophet, a liar?

If you are going to discuss religion, you had better be prepared to take the heat. I don't think the majority here would like what I have to say on the topic unless you belong to a church that referred to Jerry Falwell as a liberal for quoting from a non-KJV Bible.

[Marcus Aurelius]

If you are going to discuss religion, you had better be prepared to take the heat. I don't think the majority here would like what I have to say on the topic unless you belong to a church that referred to Jerry Falwell as a liberal for quoting from a non-KJV Bible.

Not sure what you're blathering on about. I simply asked why he'd call someone his own religion classifies as a prophet of Allah, a liar. Seems like a fairly reasonable question to me.

[tailfins]

Not sure what you're blathering on about. I simply asked why he'd call someone his own religion classifies as a prophet of Allah, a liar. Seems like a fairly reasonable question to me.

I'm not sure what you're blathering about blathering. All I'm saying is that these discussions can get really hot really quick.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I'm not sure what you're blathering about blathering. All I'm saying is that these discussions can get really hot really quick.

You were 'blathering' about being able to take the heat. Not sure what I posted that indicated I had any issues in that area... thus my categorizing your post as 'blathering'.

[jafar00]

Jesus Himself said multiple times He was the Son of God. You deny He is the Son of God. Ergo, you call Him a liar.

He did not. No Prophet of God would ever make the claims mentioned in the New Testament anyway.


I think you'll find that Tyr has covered this already, in pointing out that Islam is a false religion. Since it is, what point is there in trying to attribute any form of sanitising link with the name 'Allah' at all ?

Ask the Arabic speaking Christians then.


jafar. If you had the courage to ANSWER as many questions as you always bring here. Even YOU, might learn something.
Otherwise. You remain a FALSE PROPHET, and absolute Phony who distorts the use of language to meet your endless needs to spread hatred everywhere you go.

Insults are all you have.


Sure its not just the word its the entity that is worshipped and how its worshipped. If they are true Christians they bworship God, the one true God. Islam worships the child molester mohammad, Allah and a damn filty lying book -the Koran! They treat all three as if they are god. So Islam has its unholy trinity, how nice for Satan to give them their three to worship. I chose to go to Memphis this weekend to buy two Korans and then burn one and piss on the other. Is that blasphemy? Is that book God? Will muslim call for my execution?-Yes.
Now I have in my house 6 or 7 bibles and if I chose to do the same with two of them will fellow Christians demand that I be executed? Answer -NO!
You are a cult member , get used to it Jafar!--Tyr

Tyr. You need to know a bit about the subject before debating it. Muslims do not worship Mohamed (saw) nor do we worship a book. We worship God alone. Christianity is the one with the trinity (Gospels again :/). Islam is a monotheic religion.

[Missileman]

I think you'll find that Tyr has covered this already, in pointing out that Islam is a false religion. Since it is, what point is there in trying to attribute any form of sanitising link with the name 'Allah' at all ?

They have as much claim as a "real" religion as any other, including Christianity.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

They have as much claim as a "real" religion as any other, including Christianity.


Thats nothing but pure bullshit.. According to that all religions are equal and that includes Satanism which is a religion. Only a man that believed in no god could take that view IMHO.-Tyr

[aboutime]

He did not. No Prophet of God would ever make the claims mentioned in the New Testament anyway.



Ask the Arabic speaking Christians then.



Insults are all you have.



Tyr. You need to know a bit about the subject before debating it. Muslims do not worship Mohamed (saw) nor do we worship a book. We worship God alone. Christianity is the one with the trinity (Gospels again :/). Islam is a monotheic religion.



​jafar. INSULTS are all you deserve. In fact. YOU are the biggest Insult to us, and yourself. Betraying your own claims to faith by distorting them with hatred. That is your only purpose here. And we know it.

[jafar00]

​jafar. INSULTS are all you deserve. In fact. YOU are the biggest Insult to us, and yourself. Betraying your own claims to faith by distorting them with hatred. That is your only purpose here. And we know it.

As you wish.

[aboutime]

As you wish.


Not as I wish. As most of us are now certain. No wishing involved. You are what you are.

[Missileman]

Thats nothing but pure bullshit.. According to that all religions are equal and that includes Satanism which is a religion. Only a man that believed in no god could take that view IMHO.-Tyr

Until one is proven to be true or false, they ARE all equal except to those who believe in them. Belief doesn't alter the equality though.

[tailfins]

As you wish.

I regret the discourteous posts of other, especially Southern, Christians. I consider those types of posts as much as a Christian failure as cussing out their father-in-law for not coming to pick them up after getting thrown out of a bar for drinking too much and slapping the waitress on the butt.

Don't feel singled out. A city mission style Mexican preacher would get the same treatment even if he were a fundamentalist among fundamentalists.

[aboutime]

I regret the discourteous posts of other, especially Southern, Christians. I consider those types of posts as much as a Christian failure as cussing out their father-in-law for not coming to pick them up after getting thrown out of a bar for drinking too much and slapping the waitress on the butt.

Don't feel singled out. A city mission style Mexican preacher would get the same treatment even if he were a fundamentalist among fundamentalists.



tailfins. Who would those Southern Christians be, you are offering up to jafar?

[jafar00]

I regret the discourteous posts of other, especially Southern, Christians. I consider those types of posts as much as a Christian failure as cussing out their father-in-law for not coming to pick them up after getting thrown out of a bar for drinking too much and slapping the waitress on the butt.

Don't feel singled out. A city mission style Mexican preacher would get the same treatment even if he were a fundamentalist among fundamentalists.

I'm fine. Some of the extremism around here is a bit of a concern. I keep telling myself it's all down to the anonymity of the keyboard warrior mentality in cyberspace.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=592789#post592789)

Jesus Himself said multiple times He was the Son of God. You deny He is the Son of God. Ergo, you call Him a liar.


He did not. No Prophet of God would ever make the claims mentioned in the New Testament anyway.

That is your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it... just as it is my opinion you are incorrect.

Jesus was not just a prophet of God. He was the Son of God. THAT, is my opinion and belief.

Scientifically, neither of us can prove our belief is correct.

[tailfins]

I'm fine. Some of the extremism around here is a bit of a concern. I keep telling myself it's all down to the anonymity of the keyboard warrior mentality in cyberspace.

Don't visit the Monteagle Flea Market on Interstate 24 wearing a turban.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I'm fine. Some of the extremism around here is a bit of a concern. I keep telling myself it's all down to the anonymity of the keyboard warrior mentality in cyberspace.

As if your defense of terrorist scum is not extremism! To you believe that it may not be although actually by supporting it you are a key part of it but to we that are not blinded it is. You are not what you have pretended to be , a peaceful muslim that abhors violence. You just do not defend certain muslim sect's violence but others you do.--Tyr

[jafar00]

That is your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it... just as it is my opinion you are incorrect.

Jesus was not just a prophet of God. He was the Son of God. THAT, is my opinion and belief.

Scientifically, neither of us can prove our belief is correct.

What about what I said about us all being "sons" of God since we submit to His will? It's all about literal vs metaphorical. Jesus (as) was not being literal about being a son of God.

What do you have to say about what I posted earlier?


7
If you say that Jesus (as) is the son of God because he was born from Mary but without a father as a miracle from God, then what about Adam? Surely by that logic, he is an even greater son of God? He didn't have a father or a mother. :)

If you read the Bible,
Adam (as) is described as a son of God in Luke 3:38
Israel is described as a son of God in Exodus 4:22
In 1 Chronicles chapter 22, Solomon is the son of God
In Jeremiah 31:9, Ephraim is God's first born son!

How many sons can God have?

Once you realise that the word "son" is used not in a literal sense but in a metaphorical sense, you will see that Jesus (as) being God's begotten son is a bit of a fabrication.

[aboutime]

As if your defense of terrorist scum is not extremism! To you believe that it may not be although actually by supporting it you are a key part of it but to we that are not blinded it is. You are not what you have pretended to be , a peaceful muslim that abhors violence. You just do not defend certain muslim sect's violence but others you do.--Tyr


Tyr. jafar just gave us another of those standard, pre-planned kinds of Excuses, used to avoid being confronted by being unable to Honestly answer.

The accusations, excuses, and lame reasons drawn from somewhere by jafar. Just never seem to manage to convince anyone, other than jafar.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Jesus (as) was not being literal about being a son of God.



You are quite simply, wrong.

[jafar00]

You are quite simply, wrong.

There is nowhere outside of the Gospels where he made such a claim.

[aboutime]

There is nowhere outside of the Gospels where he made such a claim.

jafar. WERE YOU THERE? If not. There is no way for you to verify, or prove otherwise.

False Prophets are like little children. They should be SEEN, and NOT HEARD.

Get it?

[Marcus Aurelius]

Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=594077#post594077) You are quite simply, wrong.



There is nowhere outside of the Gospels where he made such a claim.

You're expecting a non-religious source like a text book or historical guide to state Jesus was the Son of God? Really? Do you expect the same non-religious type of source to state Mohamed was the prophet of God, or are you just going by the Qua'ran... a religious text?

I have a religious book, the Bible, studied by scholars since it was written.

You have a religious book, studied by scholars since it was written.

Neither one of us has anything other than that... yet you claim your book is 100% accurate and legitimate, and my book is a lie.

Kind of make you a hypocrite.

[aboutime]

You're expecting a non-religious source like a text book or historical guide to state Jesus was the Son of God? Really? Do you expect the same non-religious type of source to state Mohamed was the prophet of God, or are you just going by the Qua'ran... a religious text?

I have a religious book, the Bible, studied by scholars since it was written.

You have a religious book, studied by scholars since it was written.

Neither one of us has anything other than that... yet you claim your book is 100% accurate and legitimate, and my book is a lie.

Kind of make you a hypocrite.


Marcus. Jafar is just the exact Opposite of what we all call Atheists.

Unless WE bow down, and never question the jafar's of the world, and always Obey his False Prophet tactics. He believes all of us are Liars, while he is nothing more than an Obama kind of Immaculate...MissConception.

[jafar00]

You're expecting a non-religious source like a text book or historical guide to state Jesus was the Son of God? Really? Do you expect the same non-religious type of source to state Mohamed was the prophet of God, or are you just going by the Qua'ran... a religious text?

I have a religious book, the Bible, studied by scholars since it was written.

You have a religious book, studied by scholars since it was written.

Neither one of us has anything other than that... yet you claim your book is 100% accurate and legitimate, and my book is a lie.

Kind of make you a hypocrite.

The Qur'aan was not written by men as the Bible was. It is the literal word of God and most importantly was recorded, memorised and vigorously preserved to ensure not a single word or letter was mispronounced or changed in any way. If the Qur'aan was cobbled together a hundred years after Mohamed (saw) by people who never met him, like the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, you may have a point.

[jimnyc]

The Qur'aan was not written by men as the Bible was. It is the literal word of God and most importantly was recorded, memorised and vigorously preserved to ensure not a single word or letter was mispronounced or changed in any way. If the Qur'aan was cobbled together a hundred years after Mohamed (saw) by people who never met him, like the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, you may have a point.

That's your BELIEF. Outside of belief, what PROOF do you have? That someone stated it was the word of God? Because you believe Gabriel was given this info? What is there to PROVE this true, other than faith, which is what ALL religions reply upon?

And it's all SO true and SO the word of God, that Muslims will spend 2 seconds before denying that Muhammad was keen on sleeping with children aka a pedophile, and that it's written it's ok to beat women. Either embrace your book or stop making excuses and denials for it.

[Marcus Aurelius]

The Qur'aan was not written by men as the Bible was. It is the literal word of God and most importantly was recorded, memorised and vigorously preserved to ensure not a single word or letter was mispronounced or changed in any way. If the Qur'aan was cobbled together a hundred years after Mohamed (saw) by people who never met him, like the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, you may have a point.

A... you have no proof that not a single word in the Quar'an was ever altered. NONE. Zip.

B... You have no proof that it was the literal word of God, you have faith. There is a difference.

[jafar00]

A... you have no proof that not a single word in the Quar'an was ever altered. NONE. Zip.

Actually there is historical proof. The Qur'aan was recorded as it was revealed by multiple reciters and recited daily in prayers to ensure none of it was forgotten. It was also written down as revealed upon orders of the Prophet (saw).

We have some of the earliest copies of the Qur'aan still surviving such as this one.

http://www.message4muslims.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Uthmans-noble_quran_mss1.jpg

Not one letter from these early copies is different from what we read today.

The same cannot be said of the Bible which exists in multiple forms some with additions not included in others.


B... You have no proof that it was the literal word of God, you have faith. There is a difference.

If you are a Christian, do you not also have faith?

[Gaffer]

Actually there is historical proof. The Qur'aan was recorded as it was revealed by multiple reciters and recited daily in prayers to ensure none of it was forgotten. It was also written down as revealed upon orders of the Prophet (saw).

We have some of the earliest copies of the Qur'aan still surviving such as this one.

http://www.message4muslims.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Uthmans-noble_quran_mss1.jpg

Not one letter from these early copies is different from what we read today.

The same cannot be said of the Bible which exists in multiple forms some with additions not included in others.



If you are a Christian, do you not also have faith?

It was made up and written as mohamad went along. He was illiterate and had scribes write it for him. It's a man made work like the bible and every other religious book. The changes in the koran are called the hadaths. It's how they go about making changes without rewriting the original book. You have faith in a fantasy created in the middle ages as a means of controlling people through fear of eternal damnation.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Actually there is historical proof. The Qur'aan was recorded as it was revealed by multiple reciters and recited daily in prayers to ensure none of it was forgotten. It was also written down as revealed upon orders of the Prophet (saw).

We have some of the earliest copies of the Qur'aan still surviving such as this one.

http://www.message4muslims.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Uthmans-noble_quran_mss1.jpg

Not one letter from these early copies is different from what we read today.

The same cannot be said of the Bible which exists in multiple forms some with additions not included in others.



If you are a Christian, do you not also have faith?

You attribute differences in translation to intentional acts of corruption of the test. You are a liar and a hack.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Actually there is historical proof. The Qur'aan was recorded as it was revealed by multiple reciters and recited daily in prayers to ensure none of it was forgotten. It was also written down as revealed upon orders of the Prophet (saw).

We have some of the earliest copies of the Qur'aan still surviving such as this one.

http://www.message4muslims.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Uthmans-noble_quran_mss1.jpg

Not one letter from these early copies is different from what we read today.

The same cannot be said of the Bible which exists in multiple forms some with additions not included in others.



If you are a Christian, do you not also have faith?

You, are a liar.

http://www.answering-islam.org/authors/oskar/palimpsest.html

The fundamental Islamic belief that no word of the Quran has changed is put in question by a rather unique ancient manuscript, a palimpsest, known as ‘DAM 0 1-27.1.’1 (http://www.answering-islam.org/authors/oskar/palimpsest.html#fn_1) It was discovered by Muslims in 1972 at the ancient Great Mosque of Sana'a in Yemen. According to the latest academic studies, aided by the use of ultraviolet photography, this palimpsest contains many differences when compared with today’s Arabic Quran. They range from different and missing words and dissimilar spelling to a changed order of Surahs and words within verses. The find is part of a bundle of parchments thought to be the oldest surviving copies of the Quran.

read the above linked page for more examples of differences in versions of the Quar'an.

[aboutime]

That's your BELIEF. Outside of belief, what PROOF do you have? That someone stated it was the word of God? Because you believe Gabriel was given this info? What is there to PROVE this true, other than faith, which is what ALL religions reply upon?

And it's all SO true and SO the word of God, that Muslims will spend 2 seconds before denying that Muhammad was keen on sleeping with children aka a pedophile, and that it's written it's ok to beat women. Either embrace your book or stop making excuses and denials for it.



jimnyc. Trying to reason with, or hold any kind of discussion with jafar is, much like trying to ask an Atheist what their favorite Religious Holiday is.
They, like jafar. Only have enough information to convince themselves....while expecting others to absolutely believe everything they say.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jafar00 http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=595087#post595087)

Actually there is historical proof. The Qur'aan was recorded as it was revealed by multiple reciters and recited daily in prayers to ensure none of it was forgotten. It was also written down as revealed upon orders of the Prophet (saw).

We have some of the earliest copies of the Qur'aan still surviving such as this one.

http://www.message4muslims.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Uthmans-noble_quran_mss1.jpg

Not one letter from these early copies is different from what we read today.

The same cannot be said of the Bible which exists in multiple forms some with additions not included in others.



If you are a Christian, do you not also have faith?




You, are a liar.

http://www.answering-islam.org/authors/oskar/palimpsest.html

The fundamental Islamic belief that no word of the Quran has changed is put in question by a rather unique ancient manuscript, a palimpsest, known as ‘DAM 0 1-27.1.’1 (http://www.answering-islam.org/authors/oskar/palimpsest.html#fn_1) It was discovered by Muslims in 1972 at the ancient Great Mosque of Sana'a in Yemen. According to the latest academic studies, aided by the use of ultraviolet photography, this palimpsest contains many differences when compared with today’s Arabic Quran. They range from different and missing words and dissimilar spelling to a changed order of Surahs and words within verses. The find is part of a bundle of parchments thought to be the oldest surviving copies of the Quran.

read the above linked page for more examples of differences in versions of the Quar'an.

Well Jafar? No comment about the Muslim discovery of alternate text for the Quar'an?

[jafar00]

Well Jafar? No comment about the Muslim discovery of alternate text for the Quar'an?

It must be understood that the Qur'aan has been transmitted through oral transmission and has been identical since it was first revealed. It is quite likely that the texts found in Yemen contained a few errors which would account for them being hidden away. In fact the article you linked seems to be concentrating on writing that was washed off the parchment from an earlier time. This suggest that the earlier writings were found to have mistakes. If the written Qur'aan was different in the first days, surely the orally recited tradition would also contain those differences, but they don't. The orally recited Qur'aan today has never changed. Oral recitation was used to memorise it long before it was written down as a book.

My faith that the Qur'aan is unaltered has not been diminished in any way.

[Drummond]

It must be understood that the Qur'aan has been transmitted through oral transmission and has been identical since it was first revealed. It is quite likely that the texts found in Yemen contained a few errors which would account for them being hidden away. In fact the article you linked seems to be concentrating on writing that was washed off the parchment from an earlier time. This suggest that the earlier writings were found to have mistakes. If the written Qur'aan was different in the first days, surely the orally recited tradition would also contain those differences, but they don't. The orally recited Qur'aan today has never changed. Oral recitation was used to memorise it long before it was written down as a book.

My faith that the Qur'aan is unaltered has not been diminished in any way.

I would've thought that oral recitations would be unreliable over time, through their very nature !

Try making an oral statement .. about pretty much anything ... then have it passed between, say, a hundred people, one after the other. What are the odds of errors creeping in ?

But you're talking about something not confined to just a couple of statements, nor passed between 'just' a hundred people, or a thousand, or even a hundred thousand, Jafar ... you're talking of a process of handing-down over CENTURIES. Yet, you've total faith that accuracy would've been preserved ??

Also, your judgment that 'the earlier writings were found to have mistakes' is highly assumptive, and not a little illogical. Isn't it more likely that changes were introduced, accidentally or deliberately, because the passage of time changes peoples' perceptives ? Or preferences ? You don't know with any accuracy at all WHY there would've been changes, only that changes occurred.

Besides, hadiths in particular are chronologically ordered, and the later ones supersede the earlier ones - this allowing for a process of revision.

[Marcus Aurelius]

It must be understood that the Qur'aan has been transmitted through oral transmission and has been identical since it was first revealed. It is quite likely that the texts found in Yemen contained a few errors which would account for them being hidden away. In fact the article you linked seems to be concentrating on writing that was washed off the parchment from an earlier time. This suggest that the earlier writings were found to have mistakes. If the written Qur'aan was different in the first days, surely the orally recited tradition would also contain those differences, but they don't. The orally recited Qur'aan today has never changed. Oral recitation was used to memorise it long before it was written down as a book.

My faith that the Qur'aan is unaltered has not been diminished in any way.

Your logic is flawed... as is your faith.

[Marcus Aurelius]

It must be understood that the Qur'aan has been transmitted through oral transmission and has been identical since it was first revealed. It is quite likely that the texts found in Yemen contained a few errors which would account for them being hidden away. In fact the article you linked seems to be concentrating on writing that was washed off the parchment from an earlier time. This suggest that the earlier writings were found to have mistakes. If the written Qur'aan was different in the first days, surely the orally recited tradition would also contain those differences, but they don't. The orally recited Qur'aan today has never changed. Oral recitation was used to memorise it long before it was written down as a book.

My faith that the Qur'aan is unaltered has not been diminished in any way.

a statistical impossibility.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

a statistical impossibility.

Jafar says no mistakes and no revisions with a 1400+ year oral transfer of Mohammad's ravings.
Statisticly impossible just as you stated. Its his fantasy , he sure does believe that child rapist pervert and place much faith in the lying, stealing and murdering SOB.-Tyr

[Abbey Marie]

It must be understood that the Qur'aan has been transmitted through oral transmission and has been identical since it was first revealed. It is quite likely that the texts found in Yemen contained a few errors which would account for them being hidden away. In fact the article you linked seems to be concentrating on writing that was washed off the parchment from an earlier time. This suggest that the earlier writings were found to have mistakes. If the written Qur'aan was different in the first days, surely the orally recited tradition would also contain those differences, but they don't. The orally recited Qur'aan today has never changed. Oral recitation was used to memorise it long before it was written down as a book.

My faith that the Qur'aan is unaltered has not been diminished in any way.

Ah. But the Bible has "different versions". Smells like a double standard.

[aboutime]

Jafar says no mistakes and no revisions with a 1400+ year oral transfer of Mohammad's ravings.
Statisticly impossible just as you stated. Its his fantasy , he sure does believe that child rapist pervert and place much faith in the lying, stealing and murdering SOB.-Tyr



Tyr. Why do I always get the urge to think of "The Village People", and "YMCA" whenever I see jafar's name mentioned?

Could it be? Jafar is just hiding behind his fantasies about other men, or boy children like his IDOL Ahmadinejad????4087

[Marcus Aurelius]

Tyr. Why do I always get the urge to think of "The Village People", and "YMCA" whenever I see jafar's name mentioned?

Could it be? Jafar is just hiding behind his fantasies about other men, or boy children like his IDOL Ahmadinejad????4087

I doubt that Akmadinnerjacket is Jafar's idol. After all, he is Shia, and Jafar says they are not really Muslims, so he couldn't possibly be Jafar's idol.

[aboutime]

I doubt that Akmadinnerjacket is Jafar's idol. After all, he is Shia, and Jafar says they are not really Muslims, so he couldn't possibly be Jafar's idol.


Marcus. Oh. Of course. My mistake. Guess the Dinnerjacket, Short Person, better known as one of Disney's SEVEN DWARFS rarely mentioned as the NUMBER EIGHT little idiot, Cesspool Diver, and Diaper Sucking scumbag can't be jafar's idol. But they have SO MUCH IN COMMON!
Thanks for pointing that out.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Marcus. Oh. Of course. My mistake. Guess the Dinnerjacket, Short Person, better known as one of Disney's SEVEN DWARFS rarely mentioned as the NUMBER EIGHT little idiot, Cesspool Diver, and Diaper Sucking scumbag can't be jafar's idol. But they have SO MUCH IN COMMON!
Thanks for pointing that out.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/659441/rofl_emoticon_medium.gif

[aboutime]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/659441/rofl_emoticon_medium.gif


Thanks. We all have SO MUCH to laugh about these days. Why not take advantage of it????