The Book of Mormon challenge

[avatar4321]

I’ve been thinking about this forthe past few days. We’ve been having more conversations about Mormonism, mostlybecause of the election cycle and there is a lot of misinformation about thebeliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Some of themisinformation is intentional. Most, though, I think is because people justdon’t know accurate information about the Church. The best place to startfinding good information is The Book of Mormon.

Here is some background on the Bookof Mormon: It’s an abridged record of ancient prophets who lived in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">America</st1lace></st1:country-region> duringa similar time period as the Bible. It records the history of their dealings with God, The Doctrines of Christ, the testimony many had of Christ, an accountof Christ’s post-resurrection Ministry among the people, and the destruction ofseveral nations. The final prophets, Mormon and Moroni, compiled the book and it was latertranslated by the power of God through Joseph Smith Jr.


Paul told the Thessalonians to“Prove all things. Hold fast that which is good.” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). The Book of Mormon should be tested. And the best way to test it is to read what itsays and understand the message found in it. There is a unique promise found inthe Book of Mormon that is not found in any other book that I know about. And that is this:


“Behold, I wouldexhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that yeshould read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been untothe children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that yeshall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

“And when ye shallreceive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the EternalFather, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shallask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

“And by the power ofthe Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.” (<st1:p<st1:city w:st="on">Moroni</st1:city></st1 10:3-5).

And so, that is my challenge forevery one of you who reads this. Take the challenge. Read the Book of Mormonfor yourself all the way through from cover to cover. You can get one for f (http://mormon.org/free-book-of-mormon)ree. (http://mormon.org/free-book-of-mormon)You can also read it online (http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm?lang=eng).

Once you read it do the following:

1) Ponderin your mind and heart and think about what you’ve read and the tender merciesof the Lord. Try to actually understand the message being taught.
2) Humbleyourself before God
3) Askthe Lord with a sincere heart and real intent whether the Book of Mormon istrue or not.
4) Believethat Christ can reveal to you whether it’s true or not.

I can promise you that God will reveal to you the truth. I understand some of you may be skeptical, but I invite you to experiment with ano pen mind. You have nothing to lose by taking the challenge. If it’s true, you have a new resource in your life to turn to through which you can learn about God and Christ and the covenants He makes with man. If it isn’t, you’ve learned more accurate information about what Mormons believe and why. Either way, youwill become a better person for it.

I can tell you that my life has been completely changedsince I took this challenge seriously and sought to learn what was in the Book of Mormon and sought God to find out His will in things. It was one of the bestdecisions in my life. It was only by the power of the Holy Ghost that I came to know it was true. The Holy Ghost will reveal it to you as well

That’s the challenge I have for you. You can take it or not.All I ask is that you see it all the way through if you do.

[aboutime]

avatar. Back in the early eighties. I was in San Diego for naval communications school classes. And while there. I made several friends. Two of whom were Mormon, and both attended the same classes, in uniform with me.

One weekend. They invited me to accompany them to what was called "OLD TOWN" in the Eastern part of the city, where we all visited an LDS building they knew was there.
I watched several movies designed to introduce everyone to LDS teachings. And I found it very comfortable, and not intimidating at all as my friends asked whether I might consider what I had heard, seriously.

I told them I appreciated that they thought well enough of me to invite me to listen, and watch. But I was unable to change at that time with my wife, and son's...still living back in Pennsylvania where I grew up as a Baptist.
It was interesting, learning more about another form of Christianity I knew nothing about.
I would like to think I'd feel the very same way about any other religion as well. Giving them the same respect I would enjoy if they were learning about mine.

As for reading the Book of Mormon. I feel no need to do so. My faith is strong enough. I have no need to challenge anyone else's, as long as they are not intentionally trying to intimidate me by disrespecting my feelings as well.

[Kathianne]

avatar. Back in the early eighties. I was in San Diego for naval communications school classes. And while there. I made several friends. Two of whom were Mormon, and both attended the same classes, in uniform with me.

One weekend. They invited me to accompany them to what was called "OLD TOWN" in the Eastern part of the city, where we all visited an LDS building they knew was there.
I watched several movies designed to introduce everyone to LDS teachings. And I found it very comfortable, and not intimidating at all as my friends asked whether I might consider what I had heard, seriously.

I told them I appreciated that they thought well enough of me to invite me to listen, and watch. But I was unable to change at that time with my wife, and son's...still living back in Pennsylvania where I grew up as a Baptist.
It was interesting, learning more about another form of Christianity I knew nothing about.
I would like to think I'd feel the very same way about any other religion as well. Giving them the same respect I would enjoy if they were learning about mine.

As for reading the Book of Mormon. I feel no need to do so. My faith is strong enough. I have no need to challenge anyone else's, as long as they are not intentionally trying to intimidate me by disrespecting my feelings as well.

Your approach or non-approach to others' religions is the same as my own. I love being invited to ceremonies of different faiths. I respect their beliefs, yet feel no need to delve deeply into them. I was married to a Jew, he converted to Catholicism after our daughter was born, though that was his own decision. The only 'requirement' of the Catholic Church when we married was that he wouldn't 'interfere' with the children being raised Catholic.

While I try to know the 'basics' of most common religions, what I have fits me fine. What others have, fits them. I feel the same with those agnostic or atheistic. Not my problem, I just live my life the way I do.

[aboutime]

Your approach or non-approach to others' religions is the same as my own. I love being invited to ceremonies of different faiths. I respect their beliefs, yet feel no need to delve deeply into them. I was married to a Jew, he converted to Catholicism after our daughter was born, though that was his own decision. The only 'requirement' of the Catholic Church when we married was that he wouldn't 'interfere' with the children being raised Catholic.

While I try to know the 'basics' of most common religions, what I have fits me fine. What others have, fits them. I feel the same with those agnostic or atheistic. Not my problem, I just live my life the way I do.

Kathianne. How much better would all of our lives be. And all Human beings for that matter. If everyone, from every denomination just lived their life that way. Minding their own business????

Reminds me of John Lennon's "IMAGINE". Though I disagreed with his politics at the time. My wife and I are Life-long Beatles Fans. And "IMAGINE"...managed to set a great Human Question out front for everyone to see, and ponder.

[Kathianne]

Kathianne. How much better would all of our lives be. And all Human beings for that matter. If everyone, from every denomination just lived their life that way. Minding their own business????

Reminds me of John Lennon's "IMAGINE". Though I disagreed with his politics at the time. My wife and I are Life-long Beatles Fans. And "IMAGINE"...managed to set a great Human Question out front for everyone to see, and ponder.

I agree, though this music fits me better regarding the message:


http://youtu.be/1JDY1KvoQYk

[aboutime]

I agree, though this music fits me better regarding the message:


http://youtu.be/1JDY1KvoQYk



Agreed Kathianne. That is a beautiful song. Since I have been face to face with death three times. Music like that turns me into a huge teardrop. Not something most men are willing to admit. But. That music makes me appreciate Life more than most people will ever know, or understand as I happily remember my wife, our son's and grandchildren...all of whom ARE ALL I COULD EVER WISH FOR today.

[Kathianne]

Agreed Kathianne. That is a beautiful song. Since I have been face to face with death three times. Music like that turns me into a huge teardrop. Not something most men are willing to admit. But. That music makes me appreciate Life more than most people will ever know, or understand as I happily remember my wife, our son's and grandchildren...all of whom ARE ALL I COULD EVER WISH FOR today.

Thank you, I appreciate your analysis of it.

I like both the 'history starts now' message, along with thinking outside the box. I've used the song/lyrics in many language arts and social studies classes, with different prompts. Some of my best essays in response, ever.

Same group, but the lyrics confine it to high school because of the '20's':


http://youtu.be/tR-qQcNT_fY

[aboutime]

Thank you, I appreciate your analysis of it.

I like both the 'history starts now' message, along with thinking outside the box. I've used the song/lyrics in many language arts and social studies classes, with different prompts. Some of my best essays in response, ever.

Same group, but the lyrics confine it to high school because of the '20's':


http://youtu.be/tR-qQcNT_fY

Another great one. Thank you Kathianne.

Really know how to make me feel Older, don'tcha? LOL.
My wife's name is Kathy...BTW. An Irish lass to boot.

[Kathianne]

Well I may take some hits for the segue between politics and education. However, not so much, ;) :

https://twitter.com/johnondrasik/status/258622664380407810


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I am excited to join <s>@</s>CraigRomney (https://twitter.com/CraigRomney) in Denver tomorrow to rally voters for <s>@</s>MittRomney (https://twitter.com/MittRomney). http://www.mittromney.com/events/victory-concert-five-fighting-craig-romney … (http://t.co/YL92Chkc) <s>#</s>54F (https://twitter.com/search?q=%2354F&src=hash)



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[aboutime]

Well I may take some hits for the segue between politics and education. However, not so much, ;) :

https://twitter.com/johnondrasik/status/258622664380407810

Pure class in music, and his choice politically too!

Thanks again Kathianne.

[mundame]

Mormonism was invented by Joseph Smith, a known New England con man, who had a criminal record for a "buried treasure" con he ran. He cooked up another of them, claiming an angel named Moroni told him where there were buried gold plates with the Book of Mormon inscribed on them. He copied them off, and somehow mysteriously lost the gold plates, he said.

Most people who have studied this -- non-Mormon histories of Mormonism are available in many, many books -- believe he plagarized most of it from the Koran, which is why the polygamy and the executions for murder by firing squad -- blood must have blood, as the Koran also says.

Smith hit the big time, like L. Ron Hubbard, and his weird ideas founded a religion. He led his followers to Missouri, then to Illinois, but he was a pedophile and kept constantly having sex with young girls of 12 or 13 --- these new religions are almost always about the leader getting a lot of young sex, like David Koresh and Mohammed -- and finally a mob stormed the Illinois jail where he had been imprisoned for this pedophilia and shot him dead.

Then Brigham Young led them to Utah; after they got across the Mississippi and the women couldn't bail out he revealed that they would all live in a polygamous system, one man and as many women as each man could get from then on. Which they did; Young had 32 "wives" IIRC, until federal troops stormed their main temple in Salt Lake City to enforce not doing that anymore.

I have a very low opinion indeed of Mormonism, which is not any closer to Christianity than Muslims or Hindus: they aren't just heretics, they're a whole other thing entirely. Be careful.

I suggest reading about Mormonism before you take a lot of nonsense propaganda in; they lie to get converts.

[aboutime]

Mormonism was invented by Joseph Smith, a known New England con man, who had a criminal record for a "buried treasure" con he ran. He cooked up another of them, claiming an angel named Moroni told him where there were buried gold plates with the Book of Mormon inscribed on them. He copied them off, and somehow mysteriously lost the gold plates, he said.

Most people who have studied this -- non-Mormon histories of Mormonism are available in many, many books -- believe he plagarized most of it from the Koran, which is why the polygamy and the executions for murder by firing squad -- blood must have blood, as the Koran also says.

Smith hit the big time, like L. Ron Hubbard, and his weird ideas founded a religion. He led his followers to Missouri, then to Illinois, but he was a pedophile and kept constantly having sex with young girls of 12 or 13 --- these new religions are almost always about the leader getting a lot of young sex, like David Koresh and Mohammed -- and finally a mob stormed the Illinois jail where he had been imprisoned for this pedophilia and shot him dead.

Then Brigham Young led them to Utah; after they got across the Mississippi and the women couldn't bail out he revealed that they would all live in a polygamous system, one man and as many women as each man could get from then on. Which they did; Young had 32 "wives" IIRC, until federal troops stormed their main temple in Salt Lake City to enforce not doing that anymore.

I have a very low opinion indeed of Mormonism, which is not any closer to Christianity than Muslims or Hindus: they aren't just heretics, they're a whole other thing entirely. Be careful.

I suggest reading about Mormonism before you take a lot of nonsense propaganda in; they lie to get converts.



mundame. For the love of God. Why must you continue to hound, and drag on about this topic?
Other than making me think you are a hate filled bigot, who dislikes Mormon's for any reason you can think of here.
Nobody really cares what You think about Joseph Smith, or the Mormon religion.
Without going into all the detail...that impresses ONLY YOU.
You could have just as simply come here to tell us YOU HATE MORMONS. And it would have been done.

But. Since you just can't let go. How bout telling all of us what religion...if any, you claim for yourself?
I will happily come here to pretend I am YOU, and act like the bigot, and racist you are. If that is what you feel is Fair.

[revelarts]

Avatar, your offer is graciously presented and i respect your sincerity.
Could you tell me something though.
You say that Mormonism Is Christian. However no other Christian denominations use the book of Mormon or any other Mormon text besides LDS members.
Why would any "other" Christian NEED to read the book of Mormon? Why would Mormons NEED to read the Book of Mormon if it teaches the same things Christians ALREADY believe?

None of the other denominations, sects or branches of Christianity use ANY Mormon text at all in their spiritual training. Or accept them as authoritative or inspired.

Of the many differences in Christian groups this is universal. the book of Mormon is not read or accepted as Scripture. Though many Christians and other people want to be respectful of Mormons personally. i Doubt that Many Christians would use the the Book of Mormon as a guiding text for their spiritually. Many because some of the facts pointed out by Noir and Mundame -in fairly harsh terms- harsh but true. Despite some folks distaste for pointing out historical facts, You, me and everyone here need to be sure what we believe is true the stakes are too high to play around with and worry about hurt feelings. And a glowing feeling inside is great but it needs to line up with the text Already recieced from the Apostles and prophets And with the known facts of history.

peace Avatar

[Robert A Whit]

avatar. Back in the early eighties. I was in San Diego for naval communications school classes. And while there. I made several friends. Two of whom were Mormon, and both attended the same classes, in uniform with me.

One weekend. They invited me to accompany them to what was called "OLD TOWN" in the Eastern part of the city, where we all visited an LDS building they knew was there.
I watched several movies designed to introduce everyone to LDS teachings. And I found it very comfortable, and not intimidating at all as my friends asked whether I might consider what I had heard, seriously.

I told them I appreciated that they thought well enough of me to invite me to listen, and watch. But I was unable to change at that time with my wife, and son's...still living back in Pennsylvania where I grew up as a Baptist.
It was interesting, learning more about another form of Christianity I knew nothing about.
I would like to think I'd feel the very same way about any other religion as well. Giving them the same respect I would enjoy if they were learning about mine.

As for reading the Book of Mormon. I feel no need to do so. My faith is strong enough. I have no need to challenge anyone else's, as long as they are not intentionally trying to intimidate me by disrespecting my feelings as well.

I began life as most do, as a baby. And until my mother divorced a man of no religion and married Jim, I had not heard of Mormons. Jim was born into the LDS faith. His family had come to Salt Lake Cith with the pioneers. His family name is on the monument that is not far from Salt Lake city, called THIS IS THE PLACE monument. That is were Brigham Young proclamed Salt Lake Valley is where he was to be.

As you speak of how you feel, imagine it when I married a Jehovah Witness woman who tried to change me to her religion. She had all those books for me to study.

I read some of her books. I found that reading them felt to me like it was a Cult.

Her books tried to STEER me. The Book of Mormon is not such a book. There is nothing I am aware of in the book that you ought to fear. My copy has 531 pages. If you read it, you will learn a lot. But I am not going to hassle anybody to read the book.

[aboutime]

I began life as most do, as a baby. And until my mother divorced a man of no religion and married Jim, I had not heard of Mormons. Jim was born into the LDS faith. His family had come to Salt Lake Cith with the pioneers. His family name is on the monument that is not far from Salt Lake city, called THIS IS THE PLACE monument. That is were Brigham Young proclamed Salt Lake Valley is where he was to be.

As you speak of how you feel, imagine it when I married a Jehovah Witness woman who tried to change me to her religion. She had all those books for me to study.

I read some of her books. I found that reading them felt to me like it was a Cult.

Her books tried to STEER me. The Book of Mormon is not such a book. There is nothing I am aware of in the book that you ought to fear. My copy has 531 pages. If you read it, you will learn a lot. But I am not going to hassle anybody to read the book.



Thank you Robert. And that's the way it should be for everyone. Free to decide whatever they desire in life as long as no other person is harmed, or forced to do whatever they do not want to do.
Nobody should place any other human being in such a position. No matter what their beliefs might be.

[avatar4321]

Mormonism was invented by Joseph Smith, a known New England con man, who had a criminal record for a "buried treasure" con he ran. He cooked up another of them, claiming an angel named Moroni told him where there were buried gold plates with the Book of Mormon inscribed on them. He copied them off, and somehow mysteriously lost the gold plates, he said.

Most people who have studied this -- non-Mormon histories of Mormonism are available in many, many books -- believe he plagarized most of it from the Koran, which is why the polygamy and the executions for murder by firing squad -- blood must have blood, as the Koran also says.

Smith hit the big time, like L. Ron Hubbard, and his weird ideas founded a religion. He led his followers to Missouri, then to Illinois, but he was a pedophile and kept constantly having sex with young girls of 12 or 13 --- these new religions are almost always about the leader getting a lot of young sex, like David Koresh and Mohammed -- and finally a mob stormed the Illinois jail where he had been imprisoned for this pedophilia and shot him dead.

Then Brigham Young led them to Utah; after they got across the Mississippi and the women couldn't bail out he revealed that they would all live in a polygamous system, one man and as many women as each man could get from then on. Which they did; Young had 32 "wives" IIRC, until federal troops stormed their main temple in Salt Lake City to enforce not doing that anymore.

I have a very low opinion indeed of Mormonism, which is not any closer to Christianity than Muslims or Hindus: they aren't just heretics, they're a whole other thing entirely. Be careful.

I suggest reading about Mormonism before you take a lot of nonsense propaganda in; they lie to get converts.

I suggest reading about Mormonism too. Especially because nothing you said is accurate. Other than maybe Brigham Young leading Mormons to Utah.

Read the Book of Mormon and the Koran. If you find any passage from the Book of Mormon that was plagarized from the Koran, Ill be surpised.

[avatar4321]

Avatar, your offer is graciously presented and i respect your sincerity.
Could you tell me something though.
You say that Mormonism Is Christian. However no other Christian denominations use the book of Mormon or any other Mormon text besides LDS members.
Why would any "other" Christian NEED to read the book of Mormon? Why would Mormons NEED to read the Book of Mormon if it teaches the same things Christians ALREADY believe?

None of the other denominations, sects or branches of Christianity use ANY Mormon text at all in their spiritual training. Or accept them as authoritative or inspired.

Of the many differences in Christian groups this is universal. the book of Mormon is not read or accepted as Scripture. Though many Christians and other people want to be respectful of Mormons personally. i Doubt that Many Christians would use the the Book of Mormon as a guiding text for their spiritually. Many because some of the facts pointed out by Noir and Mundame -in fairly harsh terms- harsh but true. Despite some folks distaste for pointing out historical facts, You, me and everyone here need to be sure what we believe is true the stakes are too high to play around with and worry about hurt feelings. And a glowing feeling inside is great but it needs to line up with the text Already recieced from the Apostles and prophets And with the known facts of history.

peace Avatar

If we follow Christ, isn't our desire to learn about Him and emulate His perfect example? Why would any Christian turn down the opportunity to learn more about Christ? The Lord said we need to live off "Every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." If we are to do that, don't we need to read all His word and seek those that haven't yet been revealed?

I am convinced that Most people don't accept the Book of Mormon as scripture because most people haven't read it. I have no doubt that if more Christians would read the Book of Mormon and take the challenge, the Spirit would reveal to them that it's true. Just like the Spirit reveals to man that Christ is our Savior. And by reading the Book of Mormon along side the Bible, we might draw ourselves even closer to God and to Christ.

The Holy Spirit is more than just a feeling, He is a member of the Godhead. And when He speaks truth to your mind and your spirit, you cannot deny it, even if you try.

[avatar4321]

Thank you Robert. And that's the way it should be for everyone. Free to decide whatever they desire in life as long as no other person is harmed, or forced to do whatever they do not want to do.
Nobody should place any other human being in such a position. No matter what their beliefs might be.

That is a key tenant of the Restored Gospel. People must freely choose.

That is one of the reasons I think it's wrong for our Government to rob people through taxation even in the name of "helping" others. Because even if the money actually went to what it's designed for (which I am skeptical of) it takes away the chances we have to freely give of ourselves. Charity that isn't freely given isn't charity. God has blessings for those of us who freely give and to those of us in need to recieve with grattitude. I think both are hurt when government forces people to "give".

My original post was an invitation for all to read the Book of Mormon. I will never force anyone to do so. I don't have the power to even if I wanted to. I hope people will read the Bible as well. We are a Biblically ignorant people right now.

[aboutime]

That is a key tenant of the Restored Gospel. People must freely choose.

That is one of the reasons I think it's wrong for our Government to rob people through taxation even in the name of "helping" others. Because even if the money actually went to what it's designed for (which I am skeptical of) it takes away the chances we have to freely give of ourselves. Charity that isn't freely given isn't charity. God has blessings for those of us who freely give and to those of us in need to recieve with grattitude. I think both are hurt when government forces people to "give".

My original post was an invitation for all to read the Book of Mormon. I will never force anyone to do so. I don't have the power to even if I wanted to. I hope people will read the Bible as well. We are a Biblically ignorant people right now.


Avatar. I respect you for your willingness to maintain your composure here. You obviously are honorably committed to your church, and I admire that in anyone. Even those who follow a religion they have twisted into a call for mine, or your death.
Unfortunately. Your last line above: "I hope people will read the Bible as well. We are a Biblically ignorant people right now."
Says just about ALL that needs to be said on this topic.

Knowing how much of a fine Human being Mitt Romney is. Fending off those who hate, and wish to destroy him...as a good Mormon. I can only say. As a Christian. I hope God will keep him, and his family safe from the enemies of Mankind..namely Hatred, and those who live by Hatred to obscure their Ignorance.

[Noir]

My problem with 'Just read the book of Mormon and then...' Is that the story behind the book coming into being just doesn't hold up.

As was mentioned in another thread, Smith was put to the test by someones wife, and failed.

And despite other claims made - Like the 'witnesses' at the time, i've found texts and accounts statin that the only contact the 'witnesses' had with the gold plates etf were in dream like states.

How anyone can be expected to believe anything (never mind divine claims) with such a shaky foundation is beyond me.

[tailfins]

My problem with 'Just read the book of Mormon and then...' Is that the story behind the book coming into being just doesn't hold up.

As was mentioned in another thread, Smith was put to the test by someones wife, and failed.

And despite other claims made - Like the 'witnesses' at the time, i've found texts and accounts statin that the only contact the 'witnesses' had with the gold plates etf were in dream like states.

How anyone can be expected to believe anything (never mind divine claims) with such a shaky foundation is beyond me.


I can even make it more basic than that: What is the average annual earnings of someone with a PhD in comparative religion? I'm not a Mormon, not interested in Mormonism, Buddhism, Islam, etc., etc., etc.

[Robert A Whit]

My problem with 'Just read the book of Mormon and then...' Is that the story behind the book coming into being just doesn't hold up.

As was mentioned in another thread, Smith was put to the test by someones wife, and failed.

And despite other claims made - Like the 'witnesses' at the time, i've found texts and accounts statin that the only contact the 'witnesses' had with the gold plates etf were in dream like states.

How anyone can be expected to believe anything (never mind divine claims) with such a shaky foundation is beyond me.

The story does hold up.
The woman doing the test failed.

It was a false test.

Suppose for instance you located an ancient text that was in a language unknown to you.
After you translated it, using a device held in your hand, others wrote the story down.

In the act of translating a document, do you really think you would recall word for word over 100 pages of something translated?

That would be expecting far too much.

She no doubt read the 100 pages so somebody should have tested her after ripping it away from her to see what she remembered.

We LDS deal with myths told about our church. As you know, JFK was not killed by Lee Harvey Oswald per a lot of people and of course if you read a conspiracy on the internet, all of them have to be true, even when one contradicts some other.

I never heard anybody claim the witnesses were in some dream state. That too no doubt is on the internet so everything on it is totally true. Even when bogus.

[Noir]

The story does hold up.
The woman doing the test failed.

It was a false test.

Suppose for instance you located an ancient text that was in a language unknown to you.
After you translated it, using a device held in your hand, others wrote the story down.

In the act of translating a document, do you really think you would recall word for word over 100 pages of something translated?

That would be expecting far too much.

She no doubt read the 100 pages so somebody should have tested her after ripping it away from her to see what she remembered.

We LDS deal with myths told about our church. As you know, JFK was not killed by Lee Harvey Oswald per a lot of people and of course if you read a conspiracy on the internet, all of them have to be true, even when one contradicts some other.

I never heard anybody claim the witnesses were in some dream state. That too no doubt is on the internet so everything on it is totally true. Even when bogus.

I think you misuderstood her test.

-Smith said he had plates, that he translated into text.
-The lady hid 100 pages of text.
-It was thus put to smith that he should re-translate the missing pages.
-However Smith said that 'god said he was angry at him' for losing the first translation, and did not allow Smith to retranslate from one of the golden plates, but instead told him he must translate from a different one, that told the same basic story, but not exactly.

I mean, not to sound sarky or anything, but i'd expect you to know more about the events that lead to the drafting of the book than I.

[Robert A Whit]

I think you misuderstood her test.

-Smith said he had plates, that he translated into text.
-The lady hid 100 pages of text.
-It was thus put to smith that he should re-translate the missing pages.
-However Smith said that 'god said he was angry at him' for losing the first translation, and did not allow Smith to retranslate from one of the golden plates, but instead told him he must translate from a different one, that told the same basic story, but not exactly.

I mean, not to sound sarky or anything, but i'd expect you to know more about the events that lead to the drafting of the book than I.

I long ago stopped going to church. I was baptized at around age 15. I stopped going to church after my 18th bd.

We did not take classes trying to discredit the church. I had not heard that story until seeing it on this forum. I went to official records for an explanation.

The fact she wanted him to retranslate does not mean he had to.
Clearly you have not read the Book of Mormon and I am still reading it.

Since she stole the work, it seems to me he should have filed charges.

[Noir]

I long ago stopped going to church. I was baptized at around age 15. I stopped going to church after my 18th bd.

We did not take classes trying to discredit the church. I had not heard that story until seeing it on this forum. I went to official records for an explanation.

The fact she wanted him to retranslate does not mean he had to.
Clearly you have not read the Book of Mormon and I am still reading it.

Since she stole the work, it seems to me he should have filed charges.

Im struggling to work out whether you don't understand, or don't want to understand.

He was given the opportunity to prove that he was translating something set in stone (gold?) and he failed. His only explanation being that god was angry - and if you believe that, then you'll believe anything.