Western defense budget cuts may be unstoppable.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49404306/ns/us_news-security/?ocid=msnhp

By Peter Apps http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Sources/Art/source_Reuters3.gif

updated <ABBR style="DISPLAY: inline" class="dtstamp updated" title=2012-10-14T03:45:00>10/13/2012 11:45:00 PM ET</ABBR> 2012-10-14<!---Print (http://www.debatepolicy.com/)--->
WASHINGTON (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&where1=WASHINGTON&sty=h&form=msdate) — Whether or not America's politicians can find a way to sidestep the brutal automatic military cuts of sequestration, the era of rising Western spending on weapons and wars is over.
That reality increasingly is challenging major arms manufacturers, spurring them to look for new markets, cost cuts and mergers. It is also confronting policymakers with difficult political and strategic choices as new rivals, particularly China, spend more on their armed forces.
U.S. military spending still dwarfs that of other countries - the equivalent of the next 13 nations' spending by some estimates - but the global military balance is clearly shifting. With European states already cutting, the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies this year reported that Asian military spending outstripped Europe's for the first time in several centuries.
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Here we see another goal that obama has managed to gain by his trillion dollar spending/borrowing. Weakening our military and in the future we wil se more drastic cuts to our military. Why fight ,taking chances when destroying from within is so easy?-Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/30/defense-cuts-poised-to-deal-billions-dollars-in-damage-to-contractor-heavy/



<!-- /nav-primary -->Defense cuts poised to deal billions of dollars in damage to contractor-heavy states

Published September 30, 2012
FoxNews.com



http://global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/Politics/raptor_graphic.jpg
Shown here is a graphic of the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor. (AP)



Defense contractors are bracing for a blow to business should Congress fail to avert massive automatic budget cuts come January.
And newly emerging studies are starting to show which states will be hit hardest. For some, the budget ax amounts to billions of dollars in lost income over the next decade.
"(The cuts) will cause dramatic program and personnel dislocation within our industry," Lockheed Martin CEO Robert Stevens said in a recent statement.
Lockheed Martin is headquartered in Bethesda, Md., and Maryland is one of several states expected to take a heavy hit.
The Center for Security Policy (http://www.forthecommondefense.org/reports/defensebreakdownsummaryreports.pdf)http://global.fncstatic.com/static/v/all/img/external-link.png recently outlined, state by state, the potential impact of the cuts. The five that would be hit worst are Virginia, California, Texas, Maryland and Florida.
In Virginia, defense contractors could be looking at a $9.9 billion hit every year -- that includes the impact of both the so-called "sequestration" cuts and budget cuts already planned that likely will not be averted. According to the study, that could mean more than 122,000 private-sector jobs.
In California, the projected impact is $7.9 billion. In Texas, it's $6.5 billion.









Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/30/defense-cuts-poised-to-deal-billions-dollars-in-damage-to-contractor-heavy/#ixzz29PjW77T6

[Anton Chigurh]

I think they should cut EVERYTHING across the board, by 25% just for starters. This represents the waste and fraud by itself.

There is NO incentive to be spartan and frugal, NO incentive to combat waste and fraud, unless there are REAL CUTS.


Then I would come back a year later and cut ANOTHER 10% across the board, after spending that entire year eliminating all the useless programs and bureaucracies.

Let's not be hand wringing about cutting the defense budget - there's every bit as much fraud and waste there as in any other government program, maybe even alot more.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I think they should cut EVERYTHING across the board, by 25% just for starters. This represents the waste and fraud by itself.

There is NO incentive to be spartan and frugal, NO incentive to combat waste and fraud, unless there are REAL CUTS.


Then I would come back a year later and cut ANOTHER 10% across the board, after spending that entire year eliminating all the useless programs and bureaucracies.

Let's not be hand wringing about cutting the defense budget - there's every bit as much fraud and waste there as in any other government program, maybe even alot more.

I can agree with that as long as its done in a method designed to target "waste" as being the first items ,departements to be cut! And the dems beloved vote buying social programs get reduced equally.-Tyr

[Anton Chigurh]

I can agree with that as long as its done in a method designed to target "waste" as being the first items ,departements to be cut! And the dems beloved vote buying social programs get reduced equally.-TyrNo, just a 25% immediate CUT, of everything, leaving it up to the various departments to do something they have never had to do, MANAGE the money.

Works every time it is tried at all levels, corporate, state, and will also work on federal. Hell, it even works at the household level.

Case in point: When my legislature "cut" monies for state universities, they whined and wailed, gnashed their teeth and complained, gave nightmare scenarios about "reduced services" but guess what? Two weeks later they were bragging about how much waste and fraud they were able to find, how many unneeded and unused "services" they were able to eliminate.

And the "cuts?" Weren't even actual cuts, they were a reduction in the monies asked for, but still represented a budget INCREASE.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

No, just a 25% immediate CUT, of everything, leaving it up to the various departments to do something they have never had to do, MANAGE the money.

Works every time it is tried at all levels, corporate, state, and will also work on federal. Hell, it even works at the household level.

Case in point: When my legislature "cut" monies for state universities, they whined and wailed, gnashed their teeth and complained, gave nightmare scenarios about "reduced services" but guess what? Two weeks later they were bragging about how much waste and fraud they were able to find, how many unneeded and unused "services" they were able to eliminate.

And the "cuts?" Weren't even actual cuts, they were a reduction in the monies asked for, but still represented a budget INCREASE.

Agreed, thats why I stated that must target waste first, 30 to 40% across the board in FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS WASTE IMHO. EPA should be totally scrapped or else broken down into individual state ran and state funded entities. -Tyr

[Anton Chigurh]

Agreed, thats why I stated that must target waste first, 30 to 40% across the board in FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS WASTE IMHO. EPA should be totally scrapped or else broken down into individual state ran and state funded entities. -TyrI would make NO provisions for targeting waste. They either target the waste or they are gone and I put in a new head of the department.

K.I.S.S.

[aboutime]

Obama and the Democrats in Congress, using Sequestration of the Military, can now be said to be AIDING THE ENEMY.

Almost exactly as OBL once predicted. Not to mention former USSR Chairman Krueshev, who once PROMISED America "WE WILL BURY YOU". Those words, and desires are about to come true.

If you are an American citizen. Live in America. Have children, or grand children living today.

You should find some way to tell them. Everything they have been taught about America being the Land of the Free. IS NO LONGER TRUE.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I would make NO provisions for targeting waste. They either target the waste or they are gone and I put in a new head of the department.

K.I.S.S.

You'd likely be a very busy man finding replacements.. at least at first. After a few heads chopped off then you'd get results.

[Anton Chigurh]

You'd likely be a very busy man finding replacements.. at least at first. After a few heads chopped off then you'd get results.The results of the cuts would be immediate, and the chopping block area getting filled with heads is but one of those results.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

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Here we see another goal that obama has managed to gain by his trillion dollar spending/borrowing. Weakening our military and in the future we wil se more drastic cuts to our military. Why fight ,taking chances when destroying from within is so easy?-Tyr


Remember this from ten months ago?


Western defense budget cuts may be unstoppable.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49404306...ty/?ocid=msnhp (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49404306/ns/us_news-security/?ocid=msnhp)

By Peter Apps http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Sources/Art/source_Reuters3.gif

updated <abbr style="display: inline;" class="dtstamp updated" title="2012-10-14T03:45:00">10/13/2012 11:45:00 PM ET</abbr> 2012-10-14<!---Print (http://www.debatepolicy.com/)--->
WASHINGTON (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&where1=WASHINGTON&sty=h&form=msdate) — Whether or not America's politicians can find a way to sidestep the brutal automatic military cuts of sequestration, the era of rising Western spending on weapons and wars is over.
That reality increasingly is challenging major arms manufacturers, spurring them to look for new markets, cost cuts and mergers. It is also confronting policymakers with difficult political and strategic choices as new rivals, particularly China, spend more on their armed forces.
U.S. military spending still dwarfs that of other countries - the equivalent of the next 13 nations' spending by some estimates - but the global military balance is clearly shifting. With European states already cutting, the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies this year reported that Asian military spending outstripped Europe's for the first time in several centuries.


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Here we see another goal that obama has managed to gain by his trillion dollar spending/borrowing. Weakening our military and in the future we wil se more drastic cuts to our military. Why fight ,taking chances when destroying from within is so easy?-Tyr




Now I would like to add this as more proof of my comments about the rise of China that I predicted over 35 years ago..
http://news.yahoo.com/chinas-growing-military-might-top-4-concerns-pentagon-234901466.html

China's growing military might: top 4 concerns for the PentagonChina continues to increase spending to grow its already considerable military, and top Pentagon officials continue to watch the developments carefully.In a report issued this week, the Department of Defense for the first time directly accused China’s military of using cyberattacks to spy on US networks.In this arena and others, “China’s military buildup shows no signs of slowing,” said David Helvey, deputy assistant secretary of Defense for East Asia, who presented the congressionally mandated report on the state of China’s military activities.Here are Pentagon officials’ top four concerns as they carefully monitor the growth of China’s military.1. Frequent cyberwarfare attacks, other espionage effortsChina (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/China) has long been accused of engaging in cyber attacks and espionage on US networks, but for the first time the US military (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/U.S.+Armed+Forces) directly attributed some of those attacks to its counterparts in China, the People’s Liberation Army (PLA).“In 2012, numerous computer systems around the world, including those owned by the United States (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/United+States) government, continued to be targeted for intrusions, some of which appear to be attributable directly to the [Chinese] government and military organizations,” Mr. Helvey said during a Pentagon briefing this week.The report points to cyberespionage, along with other activities – with the aim of bolstering China’s military advantages:“China continues to leverage foreign investments, commercial joint ventures, academic exchanges, the experience of repatriated Chinese students and researchers, and state-sponsored industrial and technical espionage to increase the level of technologies and expertise available to support military research, development, and acquisition.”2. Use of space to thwart the US militaryIn 2012, China (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/China) conducted 18 space launches to expand its intelligence and surveillance satellites.At the same time, China is working quickly to “improve its capabilities to limit or prevent the use of space-based assets by adversaries during times of crisis or conflict,” according to the report.Indeed, “PLA writings emphasize the necessity of ‘destroying, damaging, and interfering with the enemy’s reconnaissance ... and communications satellites,’ ” the DOD (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/U.S.+Department+of+Defense) report notes, adding that such attacks would serve to “blind and deafen the enemy.”The same PLA analysis also points out that “destroying or capturing satellites and other sensors ... will deprive an opponent of initiative on the battlefield and [make it difficult] for them to bring their precision-guided weapons into full play.”3. Development of 'carrier killer' missilesChina (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/China) is developing specialized, precision anti-ship ballistic missiles that are capable of hitting US (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/United+States) aircraft carriers from a range of about 600 to 1,800 miles, according to the report.“This is something that China has invested in, and we’re watching very carefully as it’s developing that program,” Helvey said.These weapons could potentially affect the US aircraft-carrier presence in the region. “We’re concerned about the ability of China to develop missiles that can project its military power with precision at great distances from China,” he added. “Obviously, something that can hold at risk large surface ships, including aircraft carriers, is something we pay attention to.”4. Development of sophisticated ships, planes, and dronesThe Chinese military is working quickly to improve its array of increasingly sophisticated fighter jets and attack helicopters.Indeed, China (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/China) is developing fourth- and fifth-generation aircraft that incorporate stealth technology, some of which, the report says, use technology captured by Chinese spies.China has also launched its first aircraft carrier, which senior US military (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/U.S.+Armed+Forces) officials say they are watching carefully and which is “the most significant development in the [Chinese] Navy over the past year,” according to the report.“The formation of carrier battle groups will enable the PLA Navy to conduct comprehensive operations and enhance its long-range operational capabilities,” it says.The PLA is also “investing heavily in a robust program for undersea warfare,” developing nuclear-powered attack submarines, Helvey said.Like the US (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/United+States), China is also interested in expanding its fleet of drones – as well as selling its technology. “We have seen some reports of China marketing unmanned air systems in air shows around the world,” Helvey added, “so that’s something we’ll have to continue monitoring very carefully.”

[gabosaurus]

I think they should cut EVERYTHING across the board, by 25% just for starters. This represents the waste and fraud by itself.

There is NO incentive to be spartan and frugal, NO incentive to combat waste and fraud, unless there are REAL CUTS.

Then I would come back a year later and cut ANOTHER 10% across the board, after spending that entire year eliminating all the useless programs and bureaucracies.

Let's not be hand wringing about cutting the defense budget - there's every bit as much fraud and waste there as in any other government program, maybe even alot more.

:clap: :beer:

The U.S. defense budget is the largest pork barrel in the U.S. economy. There are barely used military bases left open because congressional delegates fight for them. Defense contractors fill Capitol Hill pockets to keep their jobs.
The biggest waste is at the Pentagon, which is horrifically overstaffed.
The U.S. defense budget needs to be slashed by at least 30 percent. It should not be a sacred cow.
We could cut 50 percent of our outdated weapons programs and not endanger national security. Same with all of our "military advisers."
I won't go into entitlements, but they need to be considered on the same level with public sector entitlements.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Obama and the Democrats in Congress, using Sequestration of the Military, can now be said to be AIDING THE ENEMY.

Almost exactly as OBL once predicted. Not to mention former USSR Chairman Krueshev, who once PROMISED America "WE WILL BURY YOU". Those words, and desires are about to come true.

If you are an American citizen. Live in America. Have children, or grand children living today.

You should find some way to tell them. Everything they have been taught about America being the Land of the Free. IS NO LONGER TRUE.

Now remember... sequestration is all congresses fault, and it won't happen anyway...

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/oct/24/barack-obama/obama-says-congress-owns-sequestration-cuts/

Obama responded by saying Romney was assigning blame in the wrong place.

"First of all, the sequester is not something that I've proposed. It is something that Congress has proposed. It will not happen," Obama said.


Obama said that the sequester -- and the defense cuts that would result from it -- was not his proposition. "It is something that Congress has proposed," he said in the debate.

But it was Obama’s negotiating team that came up with the idea for defense cuts in 2011, though they were intended to prod Congress to come up with a better deal for reining in the deficit, not as an effort to make those cuts reality.

Meanwhile, members of both parties in Congress voted for the legislation that set up the possibility of sequestration. Obama’s position is that Congress should now act to avoid those across-the-board cuts.

Obama can’t rightly say the sequester isn’t his, but he did need cooperation from Congress to get to this point. We rate the statement Mostly False.