Veep Debate

[Kathianne]

I admit it, I got so upset at Biden's antics and Ryan's nonresponse that I walked out at 8:50 CST. I came home and booted up CNN live and started looking at twitter. Seems many think Ryan did well, especially independents. They didn't like Biden's smirks and interruptions, nor the moderator, more than I did.

We'll know more in the am and over the weekend. In any case, it wasn't a blow out by any means.

[Robert A Whit]

I admit it, I got so upset at Biden's antics and Ryan's nonresponse that I walked out at 8:50 CST. I came home and booted up CNN live and started looking at twitter. Seems many think Ryan did well, especially independents. They didn't like Biden's smirks and interruptions, nor the moderator, more than I did.

We'll know more in the am and over the weekend. In any case, it wasn't a blow out by any means.

If one judges debates by silly grins at inappopriate times or smirks, one may think Biden won.

If one judges them both according to who would do well as president, who was calm, composed and knew his facts, and gave great replies, one says Ryan won by a mile.

If one is just plain junk dog mean and only has kind things to say about Democrats, they will claim Biden held his own.

Biden's job was not to hold his own, but to blow Ryay oway.

Which he failed to do.

Face it, demcrats will always claim their guy won. They did the same thing when Obama had his dentures handed to him by Romney.

What Biden tried to do is win by screaming the loudest. Ryan kept his cool.

[glockmail]

I watched the whole thing. I'm not sure what you mean by Ryan's "nonresponse". You mean he didn't shout down Biden like Biden shouted him and the moderator down him?

The best line was Ryan's response to Biden's 47% line. I was watching with my wife, and I got off the couch and said "here it comes!". Biden was bracing for it, and Ryan delivered it, hitting it out of the park. Yet Biden had it drilled into his head so far that he was forced to repeat it 3 or 4 times later...

[Anton Chigurh]

Biden asserted that as long as Afghan's are dependent on the US government they will not take responsibility for themselves and the only way to make them take responsibility is to remove the government assistance.... Hmmm... Think about it.

This was of course, after he harped on Romney's "47%" stuff, where Romney was essentially saying the same thing. Except he was saying it about domestic dependents on the G, Biden was applying it to Afghans. Maybe Biden is racist or xenophobic? But he cannot have it both ways.

[avatar4321]

Biden asserted that as long as Afghan's are dependent on the US government they will not take responsibility for themselves and the only way to make them take responsibility is to remove the government assistance.... Hmmm... Think about it.

This was of course, after he harped on Romney's "47%" stuff, where Romney was essentially saying the same thing. Except he was saying it about domestic dependents on the G, Biden was applying it to Afghans. Maybe Biden is racist or xenophobic? But he cannot have it both ways.

Excellent catch. I can't believe I missed that. Im going to steal that.

[Missileman]

There was a point in the debate when they were talking about taxes and Biden tried to justify raising taxes on the wealthy because "they don't need it". Bet that will be in a Romney ad really soon.

[Kathianne]

How this will play out in next few days?

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/10/11/angry-old-man-yells-at-paul-ryan-for-90-minutes/


Update: Some good news after an irritating night. Within the margin of error, but we’ll take it:

Sam Feist @SamFeistCNN (https://twitter.com/SamFeistCNN)

BREAKING: CNN-ORC post-debate poll of Registered Voters: 48% said Ryan won. 44% said Biden won. Sampling error: +-5%. #CNNDebate (https://twitter.com/search/%23CNNDebate)


11 Oct 12 (https://twitter.com/SamFeistCNN/statuses/256594266929901568)


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Peter Hamby @PeterHambyCNN (https://twitter.com/PeterHambyCNN)
CNN/ORC POLL October 3 DEBATE WATCHERS Who Was More Likeable? Ryan 53% Biden 43%

11 Oct 12 (https://twitter.com/PeterHambyCNN/statuses/256597929303867393)


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Peter Hamby @PeterHambyCNN (https://twitter.com/PeterHambyCNN)
CNN/ORC POLL October 3 DEBATE WATCHERS Who Was More In Touch With Problems of People Like You? Ryan 51%, Biden 44%

11 Oct 12 (https://twitter.com/PeterHambyCNN/statuses/256598156458999808)

[Kathianne]

http://youtu.be/La_H6EdZI_Q

[Kathianne]

which seems more concerned about our country?


http://youtu.be/PCtemaHgjyA

[gabosaurus]

I declare myself to be tonight's big winner because I chose to watch baseball instead of the Bucket of Warm Spit debate. :cheers2:

Immediate internet review: Biden smiled a lot, played attack dog, talked about malarkey and appealed to his partisans.
Ryan gave very wordy answers, refused to go into specifics, emphasized the serious face and appealed to his partisans.

The media consensus was that the debate was a draw.
The majority of DP awarded Biden the win before the debate started. :rolleyes:

[Kathianne]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/thoughts-on-the-vice-presidential-debate/article/2510553#.UHebAG_A-Sp


...The instant polls: CNBC had it Ryan 56%-36%, CBS Biden 50%-31%, CNN Ryan 48%-44%, AP Ryan 51%-43%. Not nearly as one-sided as the instant responses to the first presidential debate in Denver. My sense: Biden pumped up partisan Democrats, but failed to win over the voters who are taking a serious look at Romney at a point when he is up in national polls.

[avatar4321]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/thoughts-on-the-vice-presidential-debate/article/2510553#.UHebAG_A-Sp

Seems like a fair assessment. He clearly alienated alot of independents and women tonight. Heck, my facebook feed has been nothing but outrage at his performance.

[red states rule]

Kat, here is how both sides saw the same debate




The contrast with Obama lies not merely in their very – very, very – different energy levels. Obama approaches debates with the same intellectual method he uses in his books, his speeches, and his policy discussions. He instinctively tries to find common ground first, trying to work within the framework his opponent has established and acknowledge what he agrees with before delineating his disagreements.

Biden does not bother. He simply casts aside his opponent’s frame and works within his own. He did not ignore Ryan’s arguments, but he barreled over them like an enraged truck driver plowing over orange cones, before moving on to his own intellectual turf. Sometimes he barreled so fast his points were wrong or incomprehensible – most notably when he appeared to attribute the financial crisis to Bush-era fiscal profligacy, and seemed to set the bar for who should pay higher taxes at $1 million a year, not the $250,000 line Obama has labored to align his party behind. But it was a highly effective way to handle the smarmy evasions that Ryan predictably served up.


Biden met his audience at a gut level. Over and over he appealed to them to settle the debate by falling back on long-held prejudices about the two parties. Taxes? Biden set out to utter the phrase “middle class” as many times as he possible could, and to tie Romney and Ryan to the class interest of the very rich. On entitlements, he pulled out of the weeds and reminded voters that Democrats were the party of Social Security and Medicare – “Folks, follow your instincts on this one.” On defense, he repeatedly invoked the possibility that Romney would start another war, which is probably the only real way that foreign policy might enter the thinking of a low-information undecided voter. And three times Biden invoked Romney’s disparagement of the 47%, using it to frame the entire Romney-Ryan economic philosophy

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/10/joe-biden-dispenses-with-the-niceties.html





and





You don’t win a nationally televised debate by being rude and obnoxious. You don’t win by interrupting your opponent time after time after time or by being a blowhard. You don’t win with facial expressions, especially smirks or fake laughs, or by pretending to be utterly exasperated with what your opponent is saying.

That’s why Vice President Joe Biden didn’t win the one and only debate last night with his Republican rival, Mitt Romney’s running mate Paul Ryan.

In fact, though Ryan had several weak moments—one of them was on Syria—the only conceivable takeaway from the veep debate was Biden’s out of control conduct. It will be long remembered—and not favorably.

There’s one person who should be delighted with Biden. That’s Al Gore. He had the honor of having delivered the most over the top and weird performance in a presidential campaign debate when he sighed and frowned and acted frustrated in his first debate with George W. Bush in 2000. Now Biden has taken that crown—or dunce cap—from Gore.

The only good thing about Thursday night’s debate for the Obama campaign was that it involved Biden rather than Obama. As a result, it’s not likely to have any impact in the election and may not even affect the polls over the next few days.

What were the Obama strategists thinking? Yes, Biden’s performance may have pleased the Democratic party’s liberal base. So what? Their votes are in the bag. Obama needs to attract the small bloc of undecided and swing voters. They’re not likely to lurch his way on the basis of the show Biden put on.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/biden-bombed_654263.html

[red states rule]

I declare myself to be tonight's big winner because I chose to watch baseball instead of the Bucket of Warm Spit debate. :cheers2:

Immediate internet review: Biden smiled a lot, played attack dog, talked about malarkey and appealed to his partisans.
Ryan gave very wordy answers, refused to go into specifics, emphasized the serious face and appealed to his partisans.

The media consensus was that the debate was a draw.
The majority of DP awarded Biden the win before the debate started. :rolleyes:

I can understand why you did not watch Gabby. Your vote for Obama is in the bag so crowd your mind with a bunch of facts?

[red states rule]

http://youtu.be/La_H6EdZI_Q

Chris Wallace gave a great review of Joe and his debate style Kat


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[fj1200]

Kat, here is how both sides saw the same debate


Biden does not bother. ... Sometimes he barreled so fast his points were wrong or incomprehensible...

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/10...-niceties.html (http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/10/joe-biden-dispenses-with-the-niceties.html)

And that was a positive spin of Biden? He must have truly sucked. You'd think they'd focus group that sort of debate tactic.

[red states rule]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gv101212dAPR20121012064515.jpg

[Anton Chigurh]

Excellent catch. I can't believe I missed that. Im going to steal that.He also is correct in saying the only way to get the piglets off the tit is to either sour the milk or dry the tits up. This is true no matter the nationality or race of the piglet.

But the worst gaffe of the night for him was his assertion that he voted against the spending for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan - he actually voted FOR them each time. So he is either a outright liar or just incompetent enough to not remember how he voted.

Ryan let most of Biden's falsehoods go unchallenged. Chiefly, the screeds about tax cuts costing money - they do not, they bring in MORE revenue to the fed and history on this going all the way back to 1928 and every other time it is tried proves it. One need only take a look at revenue in 2007 for example - it was a record amount no matter how you want to calculate it, whether it be in dollars, dollars per capita, or dollars versus the GDP.

Biden and the left's entire problem is they think income taxation is a tool for social engineering, when it is actually and ONLY a tool for raising revenue.

[Anton Chigurh]

I declare myself to be tonight's big winner because I chose to watch baseball instead of the Bucket of Warm Spit debate.

Immediate internet review: Biden smiled a lot, played attack dog, talked about malarkey and appealed to his partisans.
Ryan gave very wordy answers, refused to go into specifics, emphasized the serious face and appealed to his partisans.

The media consensus was that the debate was a draw.
The majority of DP awarded Biden the win before the debate started.Total nonsense. But it's not surprising you form your opinions based on what others tell you instead of investing some time to actually check things out for yourself - by actually watching the debate.

[glockmail]

...
Ryan let most of Biden's falsehoods go unchallenged. ... I think this was intentional. You see, no one knows what Biden is going to lie about, perhaps not even Biden himself as you indicated. And he may be crafty enough to put enough Clintonian nuance to wiggle out of it when pressed anyway. Also, you notice that the times that Ryan challenged him on a lie, Biden's response was to simply repeat the lie, and the conversation denigrated down to "no you didn't" in response to "yes I did".

That shit is a waste of time and lets Biden control the debate. Better to say something like "I disagree on your view of the events" and move on, then let the fact checkers do their work later on.

[aboutime]

I think this was intentional. You see, no one knows what Biden is going to lie about, perhaps not even Biden himself as you indicated. And he may be crafty enough to put enough Clintonian nuance to wiggle out of it when pressed anyway. Also, you notice that the times that Ryan challenged him on a lie, Biden's response was to simply repeat the lie, and the conversation denigrated down to "no you didn't" in response to "yes I did".

That shit is a waste of time and lets Biden control the debate. Better to say something like "I disagree on your view of the events" and move on, then let the fact checkers do their work later on.

glockmail. I agree. Ryan learned rather quickly that the lady running the debate was quick to shut him down, while allowing Joe THE MOUTH Biden to ramble on, make faces, laugh, and deny as much as he wanted.

Ryan did the GROWN UP thing, and just allowed Biden to prove...WHO THE FOOL was, and he proved it many times.

I thought BIDEN did a great job when he laughed so much. It reminded me of MYSELF, reading many of the liberal excuses, and accusations brought here by people with the same lacking mentality of a Biden DOLL, with a bouncing head on a spring, designed to laugh at SERIOUS stuff like the Unexplained Killings of four Americans.

[glockmail]

glockmail. I agree. Ryan learned rather quickly that the lady running the debate was quick to shut him down, while allowing Joe THE MOUTH Biden to ramble on, make faces, laugh, and deny as much as he wanted.

Ryan did the GROWN UP thing, and just allowed Biden to prove...WHO THE FOOL was, and he proved it many times.

I thought BIDEN did a great job when he laughed so much. It reminded me of MYSELF, reading many of the liberal excuses, and accusations brought here by people with the same lacking mentality of a Biden DOLL, with a bouncing head on a spring, designed to laugh at SERIOUS stuff like the Unexplained Killings of four Americans.

The other thing that Ryan did well, perhaps he learned it from Romney, is to view your unreasonable, emotional, fact-dismissing opponent not as someone to be beaten and chastised but someone to be sorry for, like a child, or in the case of Biden, a drunken uncle. I've adopted this technique myself years ago when making public presentations of controversial projects and it has worked very well. My wife does it as well, taking it to the extreme: 'and the more they bitch and scream at me, the slower and quieter I speak, until finally it's just a whisper, followed by their wimper'.

Earlier tonight Schmidt used the word "drunkle" to describe Biden's performance and I thought that was very appropriate.

[aboutime]

The other thing that Ryan did well, perhaps he learned it from Romney, is to view your unreasonable, emotional, fact-dismissing opponent not as someone to be beaten and chastised but someone to be sorry for, like a child, or in the case of Biden, a drunken uncle. I've adopted this technique myself years ago when making public presentations of controversial projects and it has worked very well. My wife does it as well, taking it to the extreme: 'and the more they bitch and scream at me, the slower and quieter I speak, until finally it's just a whisper, followed by their wimper'.

Earlier tonight Schmidt used the word "drunkle" to describe Biden's performance and I thought that was very appropriate.

I also had occasion to present classes of junior Navy people who had been advanced in rank to E-4, reminding them of their new responsibilities as junior Petty Officers.
Primarily, I tried to tell them how to handle the resentment, and typical complaining that comes with a form of jealousy among peers. Much like Bullies who go out of their way to belittle former friends who were then, placed in positions of leadership.
When they made fun of others, using the typical name calling, and false accusations. I told them to TURN THE TABLES...so to speak. And have them ask the Bully "Why they are offended, upset, or disturbed. While their own actions are so childish, and useless?"

It has been my experience that anyone who must constantly point accusing fingers, use name calling, or childish actions to distract attention from themselves....that they are useless, and counter-productive, irresponsible, and disrespectful because of their tactics.
Much like we see here...Daily.
In other words. Some people JUST REFUSE TO LEARN, or ACCEPT TRUTH in any forms unless it is their idea first.

That about sums up what we witnessed last night with Biden. HIS WAY...OR THE HIGHWAY...with a smile..A stupid smile.

[Anton Chigurh]

I think this was intentional. You see, no one knows what Biden is going to lie about, perhaps not even Biden himself as you indicated. And he may be crafty enough to put enough Clintonian nuance to wiggle out of it when pressed anyway. Also, you notice that the times that Ryan challenged him on a lie, Biden's response was to simply repeat the lie, and the conversation denigrated down to "no you didn't" in response to "yes I did".

That shit is a waste of time and lets Biden control the debate. Better to say something like "I disagree on your view of the events" and move on, then let the fact checkers do their work later on.But, you don't let the BIG lies go unchallenged - such as the one about tax "cuts" costing the G money. It's NOT the G's money to start with therefore doesn't "cost" anything, and Ryan left a teachable moment on the table.

[glockmail]

I also had occasion to present classes of junior Navy people who had been advanced in rank to E-4, reminding them of their new responsibilities as junior Petty Officers.
Primarily, I tried to tell them how to handle the resentment, and typical complaining that comes with a form of jealousy among peers. Much like Bullies who go out of their way to belittle former friends who were then, placed in positions of leadership.
When they made fun of others, using the typical name calling, and false accusations. I told them to TURN THE TABLES...so to speak. And have them ask the Bully "Why they are offended, upset, or disturbed. While their own actions are so childish, and useless?"

It has been my experience that anyone who must constantly point accusing fingers, use name calling, or childish actions to distract attention from themselves....that they are useless, and counter-productive, irresponsible, and disrespectful because of their tactics.
Much like we see here...Daily.
In other words. Some people JUST REFUSE TO LEARN, or ACCEPT TRUTH in any forms unless it is their idea first.

That about sums up what we witnessed last night with Biden. HIS WAY...OR THE HIGHWAY...with a smile..A stupid smile.

A "shit-eating grin" is my terminology.

Good insight and advice on your part. :salute:

[glockmail]

But, you don't let the BIG lies go unchallenged - such as the one about tax "cuts" costing the G money. It's NOT the G's money to start with therefore doesn't "cost" anything, and Ryan left a teachable moment on the table. True, but you have to, as the saying goes, "pick your fights".

[red states rule]

You know it is bad when the liberal Tom Brokow calls out Joe Biden for his obnoxious behaviour



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[Anton Chigurh]

True, but you have to, as the saying goes, "pick your fights".If you're going to pick one, the one I noted IS the one.

[aboutime]

You know it is bad when the liberal Tom Brokow calls out Joe Biden for his obnoxious behaviour



<iframe title="MRC TV video player" height="293" src="http://www.mrctv.org/embed/117456" frameBorder="0" width="520" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

See how Brokaw told the truth to those who DID NOT WANT TO HEAR IT. Now it looks like he's on the Liberal SHIT LIST.

[red states rule]

Jay Leno's take on Biden

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[gabosaurus]

And now for something completely different: Britney Spears reacts to the VP Debate :eek:

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