Armada of ships amassing ...

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9545597/Armada-of-international-naval-power-massing-in-the-Gulf-as-Israel-prepares-an-Iran-strike.html

By Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent
10:00PM BST 15 Sep 2012


Cruisers, aircraft carriers and minesweepers from 25 nations are converging on the strategically important Strait of Hormuz in an unprecedented show of force as Israel and Iran move towards the brink of war.

Western leaders are convinced that Iran will retaliate to any attack by attempting to mine or blockade the shipping lane through which passes around 18 million barrels of oil every day, approximately 35 per cent of the world’s oil traded by sea. A blockade would have a catastrophic effect on the fragile economies of Britain, Europe the United States and Japan, all of which rely heavily on oil and gas supplies from the Gulf.

The Strait of Hormuz is one of the world’s most congested international waterways. It is only 21 miles wide at its narrowest point and is bordered by the Iranian coast to the north and the Oman to the south.
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About time we put a stop to Iran's insanity!!!!--Tyr

[aboutime]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9545597/Armada-of-international-naval-power-massing-in-the-Gulf-as-Israel-prepares-an-Iran-strike.html

By Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent
10:00PM BST 15 Sep 2012


Cruisers, aircraft carriers and minesweepers from 25 nations are converging on the strategically important Strait of Hormuz in an unprecedented show of force as Israel and Iran move towards the brink of war.

Western leaders are convinced that Iran will retaliate to any attack by attempting to mine or blockade the shipping lane through which passes around 18 million barrels of oil every day, approximately 35 per cent of the world’s oil traded by sea. A blockade would have a catastrophic effect on the fragile economies of Britain, Europe the United States and Japan, all of which rely heavily on oil and gas supplies from the Gulf.

The Strait of Hormuz is one of the world’s most congested international waterways. It is only 21 miles wide at its narrowest point and is bordered by the Iranian coast to the north and the Oman to the south.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

About time we put a stop to Iran's insanity!!!!--Tyr

If, and only IF Iran is foolish enough, or dumb enough to try to close the Straits of Hormuz. They will be cutting off their own supply lines. Not only for the world's oil, but for everything else they depend upon to survive.
Yes. It is a vital international waterway.
If Iran tries to follow through with their threats...should Israel attack the Nuke factories in Iran.
It's not gonna be pretty for them.
About this point would be a good time to refer everyone to a comparison of how the Brittish handled their war with Argentina at the Faukland Islands.

Or. Just look up what took place in 1990-91 in the Persian Gulf Theater with Operations Desert Shield, and Storm.
Things are much more advanced today, than they were then. There is no need for 200 thousand ground troops, with all of their Hum vee's, tanks, and pre-planned attacks.
ANYONE REMEMBER THE WORD "DRONES"?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

If, and only IF Iran is foolish enough, or dumb enough to try to close the Straits of Hormuz. They will be cutting off their own supply lines. Not only for the world's oil, but for everything else they depend upon to survive.
Yes. It is a vital international waterway.
If Iran tries to follow through with their threats...should Israel attack the Nuke factories in Iran.
It's not gonna be pretty for them.
About this point would be a good time to refer everyone to a comparison of how the Brittish handled their war with Argentina at the Faukland Islands.

Or. Just look up what took place in 1990-91 in the Persian Gulf Theater with Operations Desert Shield, and Storm.
Things are much more advanced today, than they were then. There is no need for 200 thousand ground troops, with all of their Hum vee's, tanks, and pre-planned attacks.
ANYONE REMEMBER THE WORD "DRONES"?

Iran will not make a move like that unless Russia has promised more than just lip service! This show of force is to say hey, we can do you one better IMHO.-Tyr

[Dilloduck]

I'll bet a nickle that Russia has offered more than lip service.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I'll bet a nickle that Russia has offered more than lip service.

I'll bet a 20 spot that they have. They sense that we are weak, they know financially we are extremely weak. They surely doubt that obama can pull the trigger on a full blown war. Iran and Russia are playing a DANGEROUS GAME AND THE BIGGEST DANGER IS NOT US BUT INSTEAD IT IS ISRAEL! Israel will do what it has to and not give a damn what Russia thinks about it. Survival has a way of BRINGING THAT ATTITUDE OUT IN PEOPLE!-Tyr

[Dilloduck]

I'll bet a 20 spot that they have. They sense that we are weak, they know financially we are extremely weak. They surely doubt that obama can pull the trigger on a full blown war. Iran and Russia are playing a DANGEROUS GAME AND THE BIGGEST DANGER IS NOT US BUT INSTEAD IT IS ISRAEL! Israel will do what it has to and not give a damn what Russia thinks about it. Survival has a way of BRINGING THAT ATTITUDE OUT IN PEOPLE!-Tyr

I guess we wait and see who fires the first shot. After that it won't matter much.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I guess we wait and see who fires the first shot. After that it won't matter much.

It matters, matters a lot. All depends on how big a salvo that first shot involves. Russia will not take huge losses for Iran no matter what they may have promised. Israel may bomb Irans nuke sites and Russia may ISSUES DIRECT WARNINGS TO USA TO STAND DOWN! Big question is which great power fires first .We had better hope neither! Iran can not beat Israel..-Tyr

[avatar4321]

I really dont see how the war benefits us any more than inaction does. War may be inevitable at this time. I dont know. It may be God's judgment upon the people. But I think we should be on our knees seeking the Lord and praying for peace. And if war comes, we pray for divine protection and do our best to survive. This isnt going to be pretty.

Remember, the North and the South wanted war during the Civil war. They got what was coming to it and it resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands.

[Kathianne]

I just want to emphasize that the 'massing' of these ships is for an exercise. Those in the Gulf, including the Iranians will have their own shortly. With all the tensions, something could happen, but it's not the cause of the gathering.

[gabosaurus]

If two terrorist nations want to squabble with each other, why should we intervene?

IF Israel attacks Iran, then they should do it alone. It should be none of our business. Stupid is as stupid does.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I just want to emphasize that the 'massing' of these ships is for an exercise. Those in the Gulf, including the Iranians will have their own shortly. With all the tensions, something could happen, but it's not the cause of the gathering.

Yes, its for an exercise. Its also to send a message IMHO. A very big message thats to be read loud and clear. Sort of like, we dont care who has your back, we have allies too! Israel has us and our allies too. How else could Iran take it? Then it could be so that our forces are already in place when Israel strikes Iran. Israel may strike Iran at any time because truthfully its already uncomfortably long overdue.-Tyr

[avatar4321]

If two terrorist nations want to squabble with each other, why should we intervene?

IF Israel attacks Iran, then they should do it alone. It should be none of our business. Stupid is as stupid does.

So you arent aware what happens if there is a regional war that shuts down the Straight of Hormuz?

[gabosaurus]

Yes, its for an exercise. Its also to send a message IMHO. A very big message thats to be read loud and clear. Sort of like, we dont care who has your back, we have allies too! Israel has us and our allies too. How else could Iran take it? Then it could be so that our forces are already in place when Israel strikes Iran. Israel may strike Iran at any time because truthfully its already uncomfortably long overdue.-Tyr

If Israel strikes Iran, why should we support Israel? They are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves.
Remember, Iran also has allies.
American forces should protect American troops and no one else. Especially not terrorists.

[avatar4321]

If Israel strikes Iran, why should we support Israel? They are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves.
Remember, Iran also has allies.
American forces should protect American troops and no one else. Especially not terrorists.

So the jews are terrorists now?

[gabosaurus]

So the jews are terrorists now?

Jews who embrace the principles and tactics of radical Zionism are the same as Muslims who embrace the principles and tactics of radical Islam.
It's not the people themselves, just the ones who make the decisions.

[red states rule]

So you arent aware what happens if there is a regional war that shuts down the Straight of Hormuz?

Folks like Gabby in CA are currently paying around $4.50/gal for gas - so I guess she does not care if she pays $6 or $7/gal

[jafar00]

Folks like Gabby in CA are currently paying around $4.50/gal for gas - so I guess she does not care if she pays $6 or $7/gal

So you folks need to pull the reigns on Israel and pull them back from the brink. Netanyahu is prancing about like a madman.

[Nukeman]

So you folks need to pull the reigns on Israel and pull them back from the brink. Netanyahu is prancing about like a madman.
NO folks like you need to pull the reigns in on Almedenihjad (sp) who has been for 35 years and still is prancing about like the mad man... Funny how you see Netanyahu that way and all those "zionist" yet you refuse to see it in your own backyard, either that or you make excuses...

Tell me why a country that can literaly stick a pipe in the ground for oil needs Nuclear paoer. Or for that matter why they don't go for a Thorium based reactor INSTEAD of a Uranium based one. the only reason to go with Ur based is for weapons grade ore.. So tell me WHY to those two questions... :poke:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

So the jews are terrorists now?

Gabby says they are in agreement with those that she worships= muslims. She cleverly overlooks the worldwide camppaign of Islamic terrorism and tries to look only at the conflict between Israel and the muslim nations surrouinding it seeking its destruction. Even then with that small view she fails to see which party bears the lion's share of blame. Miss "SMARTER THAN YOU ARE" has to announce the lie to convince others that she has greater than average IQ. SO FAR SHE HAS FAILED TO CONVINCE ANYBODY WITH A HIGHER IQ THAN HER IMHO..-Tyr

[logroller]

If two terrorist nations want to squabble with each other, why should we intervene?

IF Israel attacks Iran, then they should do it alone. It should be none of our business. Stupid is as stupid does.
Except when it affects US interests, especially economic-- would be stupid to ignore that which we have vested interest in.

If Israel strikes Iran, why should we support Israel? They are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves.
Remember, Iran also has allies.
American forces should protect American troops and no one else. Especially not terrorists.
WTF? You can debate whether regional exercises/ activities protect American interest but American forces, i.e. our troops, are in place to protect American interests, not merely one another.

Jews who embrace the principles and tactics of radical Zionism are the same as Muslims who embrace the principles and tactics of radical Islam.
It's not the people themselves, just the ones who make the decisions.

Fanaticism, regardless of station, is a growing concern.


Gabby says they are in agreement with those that she worships= muslims. She cleverly overlooks the worldwide camppaign of Islamic terrorism and tries to look only at the conflict between Israel and the muslim nations surrouinding it seeking its destruction. Even then with that small view she fails to see which party bears the lion's share of blame. Miss "SMARTER THAN YOU ARE" has to announce the lie to convince others that she has greater than average IQ. SO FAR SHE HAS FAILED TO CONVINCE ANYBODY WITH A HIGHER IQ THAN HER IMHO..-Tyr
Personal attacks are the devils crutch. I've come to embrace your Islamic concerns, but I've little doubt more reproachable acts are at work domestically requiring our, the citizenry's, attention. Economically we are weakened by our own doing-- a chink in our armor which must be repaired regardless. If that's to be done through war, belligerance be damned-- war is indeed profitable, but once again I'm reminded of the caution expressed by our supreme allied commander, President Dwight D Eisenhower, regarding the military- industrial complex-- it's the MO of imperialism.

[Abbey Marie]

I don't usually look for the bogey man behind everything the gov't does (hey, I miss Rev!).
But one does wonder if we call this an exercise, as a cover/excuse for what is really the wish to be a big presence in the area at an uncertain time.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

...............
1. Personal attacks are the devils crutch. 2.I've come to embrace your Islamic concerns, but I've little doubt more reproachable acts are at work domestically requiring our, the citizenry's, attention. Economically we are weakened by our own doing-- a chink in our armor which must be repaired regardless. If that's to be done through war, belligerance be damned-- war is indeed profitable, but once again I'm reminded of the caution expressed by our supreme allied commander, President Dwight D Eisenhower, regarding the military- industrial complex-- it's the MO of imperialism.

Thats fair enough. I even accept the correctness of your chiding me for issuing a personal attack on Gabby.
I happen to have a very high regard for Eisenhower and see the correctness in the warning he gave! However, we face very grave threats both at home and abroad. We must stop this blindness! This fallacy that if we ignore it or wish it away it will comply. History has shown that to be wrong and that it so often leads to destruction.

Currently we have all these players sensing our true weakness, our other weakness(obama) and they are making great plans, Turkey dreams of restoring the Ottoman Empire, Iran the Persian Empire, Russia-the old Soviet Empire(of sorts), N. Korea(who knows), Islam the World Caliphate, other dictators(Latin America) grabbing for more etc. China knowing that because of our great economic collapse it will be number one power within a decade or two. I don't buy into the 2016 date unless obama's reelected and does his planned massive second term destruction, if that occurs China will surely do so by 2016. Lets not forget the major weakness of China's counter balance =Japan! That alone has sped up China's rapid rise!

America faces several grave threats, each must be addressed and not be put off, ignored or sarcasticly ridiculed as mad rantings by critics of those that point out the threat and often the urgency of taking meaningful and appropriate action! Yes, I criticise those that ignorantly criticise those that ring the warning bell. The fact that they may criticise us out of ignorance, arrogance, wishful thinking , appeasement mentality, etc. cuts no ice with me. They are wrong and delay may cause failure that leads to our defeat.

I truly believe that the armada of ships amassing is to send a message, "hey, dont mess with us, we now mean business."!
Sure its an military exercise but has far greater meaning and if Iran fails to see that meaning they are blind and stupid as they are radically savage.

I numbered those 1 and 2 in your quoted post. Agreement is a nice thing for a change. I take valid respectful criticism in stride amigo. Always have.. -Tyr

[Dilloduck]

To say the issue of terrorism is being "ignored" or "wished away" is denial in the extreme. Do you watch TV, read the papers, listen to any news at all ? It's pratically all the media reports about. There's also this issue of American troops and weaponry all over the mideast, actively pursueing and killing terrorists and Taliban. Have you noticed that ?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

To say the issue of terrorism is being "ignored" or "wished away" is denial in the extreme. Do you watch TV, read the papers, listen to any news at all ? It's pratically all the media reports about. There's also this issue of American troops and weaponry all over the mideast, actively pursueing and killing terrorists and Taliban. Have you noticed that ?

Sure I've noticed. Its called "overseas man caused disaster", "workplace violence " (Fort Hood), "killing" instead of "murder" etc. Perhaps its you that have been blind not me..-Tyr

[avatar4321]

Jews who embrace the principles and tactics of radical Zionism are the same as Muslims who embrace the principles and tactics of radical Islam.
It's not the people themselves, just the ones who make the decisions.

And what is wrong with them gathering as a people?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

And what is wrong with them gathering as a people?

Well Gabby thinks why should they gather unless there are some ovens nearby, right Gabby?
I mean her muslim friends teach her so much that she knows how wicked those jews are..-Tyr

[Kathianne]

Well Gabby thinks why should they gather unless there are some ovens nearby, right Gabby?
I mean her muslim friends teach her so much that she knows how wicked those jews are..-Tyr

Gabby is many things, anti-semite isn't one of them. Indeed, prejudice isn't in her make-up. However, is she conditioned to think that the 'poor folks' are those that are more innocent? Yes. Whether the Iranians or the Palestinians it seems that wealthy Jews are trampling. That it's not the case, she hasn't been educated. It won't be from the likes of us, but perhaps a friend of her husband's or a lecture she attends.

She really does seek to be informed, she just rushes though.

[gabosaurus]

Who says I don't know Jewish people? I have nothing against people from Israel, or Jewish people in general. It is generally the governments and the militants behind them that cause the trouble.
It is the misguided that believe that Israelis are the "chosen people of God" that I disagree with. The God I worship is the God of ALL people. No exceptions.
And no, I see ZERO difference between militant Muslims and militant Jews. Both are wolves pretending to be sheep.

Iran will never use nukes for the same reason that India and Pakistan have never used nukes. Reaction from the international community would be swift and severe.

[Kathianne]

Who says I don't know Jewish people? I have nothing against people from Israel, or Jewish people in general. It is generally the governments and the militants behind them that cause the trouble.
It is the misguided that believe that Israelis are the "chosen people of God" that I disagree with. The God I worship is the God of ALL people. No exceptions.
And no, I see ZERO difference between militant Muslims and militant Jews. Both are wolves pretending to be sheep.

Iran will never use nukes for the same reason that India and Pakistan have never used nukes. Reaction from the international community would be swift and severe.

Really. What would be the international communities reaction to a nuked Israel or Iran, Gabby?

[aboutime]

Any nation. Or, better put. The nation who uses a NUKE in the Middle East first. Will become the LAST Middle East Nation to use such a weapon.

The one, lasting effect of the use of such a weapon will be. The United States of America WILL finally be forced to DEPEND ON, AND USE Our own OIL since the Middle-East will no longer have the capability to produce Half of the World's production, nor will any other nation be able to use RADIOACTIVE Oil products.

It may sound like a joke here. People can laugh as much as you want. But remember. Before September 11th, 2001. Americans also believed NOBODY would ever attack us on our OWN SOIL.

And before 2008. Nobody in America honestly thought we'd have a Black President either.

Laugh if you like.
Those who fail to remember History are....Doomed to repeat it...some way, somehow, some Day.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Gabby is many things, anti-semite isn't one of them. Indeed, prejudice isn't in her make-up. However, is she conditioned to think that the 'poor folks' are those that are more innocent? Yes. Whether the Iranians or the Palestinians it seems that wealthy Jews are trampling. That it's not the case, she hasn't been educated. It won't be from the likes of us, but perhaps a friend of her husband's or a lecture she attends.

She really does seek to be informed, she just rushes though.

She clearly rejects all rightwing sources of information. So how can she be seeking truth or to be educated. Seems like to me with that attitude she has already decided that only Islam and lefties are correct..I do not know about you but to me thats the typical liberal arrogant and closed minded approach, her tagline displays it so well.-Tyr

[Nukeman]

Any nation. Or, better put. The nation who uses a NUKE in the Middle East first. Will become the LAST Middle East Nation to use such a weapon.

The one, lasting effect of the use of such a weapon will be. The United States of America WILL finally be forced to DEPEND ON, AND USE Our own OIL since the Middle-East will no longer have the capability to produce Half of the World's production, nor will any other nation be able to use RADIOACTIVE Oil products.

It may sound like a joke here. People can laugh as much as you want. But remember. Before September 11th, 2001. Americans also believed NOBODY would ever attack us on our OWN SOIL.

And before 2008. Nobody in America honestly thought we'd have a Black President either.

Laugh if you like.
Those who fail to remember History are....Doomed to repeat it...some way, somehow, some Day.I'm super curious how the OIL becomes radioactive?? Please enlighten us as to why that would happen??

It may halt pumping for a while but it sure as hell wouldn't STOP it or "turn the oil radioactive" YOU have been watching way to many movies!!! :laugh:

[jafar00]

I'm super curious how the OIL becomes radioactive?? Please enlighten us as to why that would happen??

It may halt pumping for a while but it sure as hell wouldn't STOP it or "turn the oil radioactive" YOU have been watching way to many movies!!! :laugh:

If the pumping stations get fallout, the oil could be irradiated on the way out. It would mean one hell of a cleanup before it was usable again.

[aboutime]

I'm super curious how the OIL becomes radioactive?? Please enlighten us as to why that would happen??

It may halt pumping for a while but it sure as hell wouldn't STOP it or "turn the oil radioactive" YOU have been watching way to many movies!!! :laugh:


Nukeman. First. Do you understand what NUKE means?
Second. If a nuclear weapon is exploded above, or near any pipeline, well, or storage facility near a refinery of OIL.
EVERYTHING becomes Contaminated with nuclear fallout.
We're not talking Hiroshima, or Nagasaki kinds of Nukes anymore.
Does that help your TONGUE-IN-CHEEK attempt to pretend it can't take place?

[Nukeman]

Nukeman. First. Do you understand what NUKE means?
Second. If a nuclear weapon is exploded above, or near any pipeline, well, or storage facility near a refinery of OIL.
EVERYTHING becomes Contaminated with nuclear fallout.
We're not talking Hiroshima, or Nagasaki kinds of Nukes anymore.
Does that help your TONGUE-IN-CHEEK attempt to pretend it can't take place?I assure you I understand NUKE much better than YOU do. I live and breath radioactive substances EVERY DAY... It's MY JOB!!!!!!! YOU on the other hand are think short term and not long term......

You stated the following


The one, lasting effect of the use of such a weapon will be. The United States of America WILL finally be forced to DEPEND ON, AND USE Our own OIL since the Middle-East will no longer have the capability to produce Half of the World's production, nor will any other nation be able to use RADIOACTIVE Oil products.



Now that being said the GROUND will have residual contamination until clean up takes place but the OIL IN THE GROUND IS STILL CLEAN.. When something gets hit by a blast it DOES NOT BECOME RADIOACTIVE!!!!!!!