Multiple personalities of the Muslim rage

[Dilloduck]

An Indonesian Muslim scholar, Komaruddin Hidayat, said Muslims have the duty to oppose to anything they deem offensive to their faith, but must "avoid using violence in expressing their objections." At the other end of the Muslim world in Nigeria, a top Islamic leader, Sheik Sani Yahaya Jingir, said violence never brings "any benefit to Islam."
For Jumaa al-Qurishi, a 38-year-old Iraq librarian: "This is not freedom. This is an act of aggression."
"Yes, we understand the First Amendment and all of this stuff," wrote Khalid Amayreh, a prominent Islamist commentator and blogger in Hebron on the West Bank. "But you must also understand that the Prophet (for us) is a million times more sacred than the American Constitution."
He adds: "As Americans have their own idiots and fanatics, we, too, have our idiots and fanatics. And as Americans are utterly unable — probably unwilling as well — to stop their idiots, we, too, are less able to rein in ours."
There's no wonder why the loudest voices still tend to rule the day, said Issandr El Amrani, a Moroccan-American journalist and visiting fellow at the European Center for Foreign Relations, a pan-European think tank.
"The resulting cascade of outrage is now predictable," he wrote in Abu Dhabi's The National newspaper. "Islamophobes in the West will say, 'We told you they're fanatics,' and the crowd-riling demagogues here will say, 'We told you they disrespect us.' And politicians everywhere will use the language of outrage in their petty calculations."


.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

.

Bull, they encourage their followers to committ acts of violence. This pretending that Jihad is not part of Islam and encouraged by the majority of their religious leaders is pure crap! You always attempting to defend them is another story altogether. Actually quite revealing and surely points to duplicity here on your part IMHO. -Tyr

[Dilloduck]

Bull, they encourage their followers to committ acts of violence. This pretending that Jihad is not part of Islam and encouraged by the majority of their religious leaders is pure crap! You always attempting to defend them is another story altogether. Actually quite revealing and surely points to duplicity here on your part IMHO. -Tyr

No more than all Jews are rich and all blacks steal. You're a plain vanilla bigot. I know you like to see yourself a red blooded American patriot who is trying to save the world from Islam but you're just making things worse.

[abso]

No more than all Jews are rich and all blacks steal. You're a plain vanilla bigot. I know you like to see yourself a red blooded American patriot who is trying to save the world from Islam but you're just making things worse.

i actually intended to post a thread about the civilized response done by Muslims in many countries so that some people here could see the other side of Islam, but then i said "what will that achieve ???", because most of the people here just hate Islam, and they will only see my thread as another opportunity to disrespect Islam and Muslims, so i will just be insulting myself and Islam if i posted anything.

[Dilloduck]

i actually intended to post a thread about the civilized response done by Muslims in many countries so that some people here could see the other side of Islam, but then i said "what will that achieve ???", because most of the people here just hate Islam, and they will only see my thread as another opportunity to disrespect Islam and Muslims, so i will just be insulting myself and Islam if i posted anything.

Post it anyway. You're not responsible for the reactions of others no more than the idiot film maker is for those who reacted to his "film" with violence.

[Drummond]

Dilloduck, I find myself repeating a point I made on another thread.

Quite simply .. if Islam isn't represented by, or driving on, the so-called 'fanatics' who bomb and terrorise others .. then you'd have to conclude that what they do falls outside of their religion, is separate from it. Unconnected to it.

However, do we see the same phenomenon from 'fanatics' saying they're standing up for THEIR religions ?

Give me examples of Christians bombing metro systems, such as the London Underground. Or, of Christians flying hijacked planes into buildings. Or examples of CHRISTIAN Jihadists who issue death sentences against those who write books they don't like. Or CHRISTIANS who go around killing people if unflattering cartoons of Jesus are ever drawn.

How many beheadings have you heard of, from 'CHRISTIAN terrorists' .. ?

What I've described is what Muslim 'fanatics' .. who supposedly 'don't' represent their religion, get up to. But we all know, Dilloduck, that there is NOT an equivalent 'fanaticism' to be found in others.

IF THE MUSLIM RELIGION ISN'T DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE .. HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY EXPLAIN THAT ?

[Dilloduck]

Dilloduck, I find myself repeating a point I made on another thread.

Quite simply .. if Islam isn't represented by, or driving on, the so-called 'fanatics' who bomb and terrorise others .. then you'd have to conclude that what they do falls outside of their religion, is separate from it. Unconnected to it.

However, do we see the same phenomenon from 'fanatics' saying they're standing up for THEIR religions ?

Give me examples of Christians bombing metro systems, such as the London Underground. Or, of Christians flying hijacked planes into buildings. Or examples of CHRISTIAN Jihadists who issue death sentences against those who write books they don't like. Or CHRISTIANS who go around killing people if unflattering cartoons of Jesus are ever drawn.

How many beheadings have you heard of, from 'CHRISTIAN terrorists' .. ?

What I've described is what Muslim 'fanatics' .. who supposedly 'don't' represent their religion, get up to. But we all know, Dilloduck, that there is NOT an equivalent 'fanaticism' to be found in others.

IF THE MUSLIM RELIGION ISN'T DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE .. HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY EXPLAIN THAT ?

throughout history there have been violent acts by different religions---It's simple as hell to explain-----people don't know how to practice their own religion.

Northern Ireland----violence--non Christian acts committed by Christians themselves.

[jafar00]

Bull, they encourage their followers to committ acts of violence. This pretending that Jihad is not part of Islam and encouraged by the majority of their religious leaders is pure crap! You always attempting to defend them is another story altogether. Actually quite revealing and surely points to duplicity here on your part IMHO. -Tyr

You see examples of the opposite of the tripe you spew, yet you continue to put your fingers in your ears and shout lalalalalalala as if it wasn't there.
http://kimolsen.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/lolcats-funny-picture-lalalalala.jpg


i actually intended to post a thread about the civilized response done by Muslims in many countries so that some people here could see the other side of Islam, but then i said "what will that achieve ???", because most of the people here just hate Islam, and they will only see my thread as another opportunity to disrespect Islam and Muslims, so i will just be insulting myself and Islam if i posted anything.

Please do bro. Amongst the huge amount of anti Islam media directed against us, even a lone voice of reason can make some difference.


Dilloduck, I find myself repeating a point I made on another thread.

Quite simply .. if Islam isn't represented by, or driving on, the so-called 'fanatics' who bomb and terrorise others .. then you'd have to conclude that what they do falls outside of their religion, is separate from it. Unconnected to it.

However, do we see the same phenomenon from 'fanatics' saying they're standing up for THEIR religions ?

Give me examples of Christians bombing metro systems, such as the London Underground. Or, of Christians flying hijacked planes into buildings. Or examples of CHRISTIAN Jihadists who issue death sentences against those who write books they don't like. Or CHRISTIANS who go around killing people if unflattering cartoons of Jesus are ever drawn.

How many beheadings have you heard of, from 'CHRISTIAN terrorists' .. ?

What I've described is what Muslim 'fanatics' .. who supposedly 'don't' represent their religion, get up to. But we all know, Dilloduck, that there is NOT an equivalent 'fanaticism' to be found in others.



Timothy Mcveigh was a Christian
LRA are Christian
Thugs bombing mosques and killing Muslims in Nigeria are Christians
Some US soldiers who go into Afghanistan (and earlier in Iraq) went there on a "mission from God"

and so on and so forth. The media doesn't describe them as "Christian" terrorists, but by the same logic that Arab terrorists are "Islamic" they are.


IF THE MUSLIM RELIGION ISN'T DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE .. HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY EXPLAIN THAT ?

Show me how our religion is directly responsible.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

throughout history there have been violent acts by different religions---It's simple as hell to explain-----people don't know how to practice their own religion.

Northern Ireland----violence--non Christian acts committed by Christians themselves.

How many lame excuses are you going to make for murdering savages?? How many times are you going to declare that they can not be defeated?
We are discussing their terrorism yet you want to point to Christians and ancient history, why?
This now hoss not many hundreds of years in the past.
Your old tired stick about ,"just leave the bank robbers alone and be content that they didnt kill you", has been tried before. I have never bought into such damn idiotcy.. Apparently you have...-Tyr

[Dilloduck]

How many lame excuses are you going to make for murdering savages?? How many times are you going to declare that they can not be defeated?
We are discussing their terrorism yet you want to point to Christians and ancient history, why?
This now hoss not many hundreds of years in the past.
Your old tired stick about ,"just leave the bank robbers alone and be content that they didnt kill you", has been tried before. I have never bought into such damn idiotcy.. Apparently you have...-Tyr

learn from history---

[Drummond]

throughout history there have been violent acts by different religions---It's simple as hell to explain-----people don't know how to practice their own religion.

Northern Ireland----violence--non Christian acts committed by Christians themselves.

I gave you a list of forms of terrorist attacks committed by Muslims, and asked you if there were equivalents committed by Christians .. did I not ? And sure enough. Dilloduck you couldn't counter my point with any equivalent accounts from Christians.
,
You DID give the example of the acts committed in Northern Ireland (only some of which were religion-based, by the way). And YES .. in a very limited way, conceded, this is a fair point. However .. you cannot point to anything from that locality, from those people, which comes close to much of what we see from Muslims.

Give me examples of Northern Irish beheadings, or of planes flown at buildings. For that matter .. give me examples of anything like that which occurs in modern times ! What you've referred to goes back decades, whereas Muslim terrorism is happening in TODAY's world, is ongoing, and we see no sign of it stopping. Oh, and it comes close to being a global phenomenon, which of course N Ireland couldn't have been.

Northern Ireland's issues were sectarian, Dilloduck. By comparison, what we see from Muslim terrorists is united in being against other religions .. NOT sectarian. In the case of London's '7/7' attack, for example, were the terrorists at pains to conduct a census to determine that they were only threatening other Muslims ... or, were they attacking everyone within range of their bombs ?? Did they, perhaps, make an effort only to attack mosques ?

Nope. Britain dared to be a pro-Western target (.. for now ..) .. so, they attacked it on that basis.

Oh, and Dilloduck ... no charge ... :rolleyes:

[Kathianne]

I gave you a list of forms of terrorist attacks committed by Muslims, and asked you if there were equivalents committed by Christians .. did I not ? And sure enough. Dilloduck you couldn't counter my point with any equivalent accounts from Christians.
,
You DID give the example of the acts committed in Northern Ireland (only some of which were religion-based, by the way). And YES .. in a very limited way, conceded, this is a fair point. However .. you cannot point to anything from that locality, from those people, which comes close to much of what we see from Muslims.

Give me examples of Northern Irish beheadings, or of planes flown at buildings. For that matter .. give me examples of anything like that which occurs in modern times ! What you've referred to goes back decades, whereas Muslim terrorism is happening in TODAY's world, is ongoing, and we see no sign of it stopping. Oh, and it comes close to being a global phenomenon, which of course N Ireland couldn't have been.

Northern Ireland's issues were sectarian, Dilloduck. By comparison, what we see from Muslim terrorists is united in being against other religions .. NOT sectarian. In the case of London's '7/7' attack, for example, were the terrorists at pains to conduct a census to determine that they were only threatening other Muslims ... or, were they attacking everyone within range of their bombs ?? Did they, perhaps, make an effort only to attack mosques ?

Nope. Britain dared to be a pro-Western target (.. for now ..) .. so, they attacked it on that basis.

Oh, and Dilloduck ... no charge ... :rolleyes:

The IRA were terrorists, I'd not argue that. They certainly had no compunctions about hitting political figureheads if they could. Yes, they even targeted places where civilians could be hurt, usually though with warnings, to give just enough time to get most out, not enough time to prevent the explosions and subsequent property damage. Oh yeah, usually police lost limbs or life.

This bunch though, at the leadership level resemble IRA in political, with no compunctions on life of anyone. Not their tools, not civilians, not Muslims-civilian or not.

[Dilloduck]

I gave you a list of forms of terrorist attacks committed by Muslims, and asked you if there were equivalents committed by Christians .. did I not ? And sure enough. Dilloduck you couldn't counter my point with any equivalent accounts from Christians.
,
You DID give the example of the acts committed in Northern Ireland (only some of which were religion-based, by the way). And YES .. in a very limited way, conceded, this is a fair point. However .. you cannot point to anything from that locality, from those people, which comes close to much of what we see from Muslims.

Give me examples of Northern Irish beheadings, or of planes flown at buildings. For that matter .. give me examples of anything like that which occurs in modern times ! What you've referred to goes back decades, whereas Muslim terrorism is happening in TODAY's world, is ongoing, and we see no sign of it stopping. Oh, and it comes close to being a global phenomenon, which of course N Ireland couldn't have been.

Northern Ireland's issues were sectarian, Dilloduck. By comparison, what we see from Muslim terrorists is united in being against other religions .. NOT sectarian. In the case of London's '7/7' attack, for example, were the terrorists at pains to conduct a census to determine that they were only threatening other Muslims ... or, were they attacking everyone within range of their bombs ?? Did they, perhaps, make an effort only to attack mosques ?

Nope. Britain dared to be a pro-Western target (.. for now ..) .. so, they attacked it on that basis.

Oh, and Dilloduck ... no charge ... :rolleyes:

You're so far off base with that one that you should be embarassed. Return to Tyr and do not collect $200.

[Drummond]

You're so far off base with that one that you should be embarassed. Return to Tyr and do not collect $200.

Oh, you mean squabbles of the Sunni v Shia variety, for example ? Well .. do these have a global impact ?

Equally, you could divide 'The Troubles' in Northern Ireland (and I said previously that only some of that was religious-based) between factionalism which saw Protestants opposing Catholics, and then, this was decades ago. HOWEVER ... this is small-fry stuff compared with Muslim GLOBAL terrorism, Dilloduck, which manifests as a straight pro-Islam fight against other religions, most notably Christianity.

The scale of what we're talking about where Muslims are concerned is, I say again, GLOBAL. Indeed, we've seen just HOW global in recent days, haven't we, with all the bloodthirstiness indulged over a certain YouTube video !

You have no equivalent to offer me from a Christian standpoint, and you're well aware of it.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You're so far off base with that one that you should be embarassed. Return to Tyr and do not collect $200.

Do not advise my friend to return to Tyr. That place has become wicked and filled with serpents. Angels now fear to tread there. Even I carry my sword in hand when venturing that abode.. I suggest Miami my friend(Drummonds), it has nice weather and beautiful women often barely even dressed!! -;)--Tyr


http://darksun.wikia.com/wiki/Tyr
The History of Tyr
Tyr was ruled by king Kalak for a thousand years of terror. He was iron fisted and refused to listen to his council of city elders. Drawing near the end of his reign, Kalak began the construction of a massive pyramid in the arena. None were sure what the structure was for until the entire population was called to the arena to watch the Ziggurat games. As soon as the fight ended (which featured the champion Mul gladiator Rikus and his fighting partner Neeva) a great Obsidian structure shot through the pyramid and began to drain the life out of the spectators. None could escape, for the gates had been closed and could not be opened from the inside. The reason became apparent:

[Dilloduck]

Do not advise my friend to return to Tyr. That place has become wicked and filled with serpents. Angels now fear to tread there. Even I carry my sword in hand when venturing that abode.. I suggest Miami my friend(Drummonds), it has nice weather and beautiful women often barely even dressed!! -;)--Tyr


http://darksun.wikia.com/wiki/Tyr
The History of Tyr
Tyr was ruled by king Kalak for a thousand years of terror. He was iron fisted and refused to listen to his council of city elders. Drawing near the end of his reign, Kalak began the construction of a massive pyramid in the arena. None were sure what the structure was for until the entire population was called to the arena to watch the Ziggurat games. As soon as the fight ended (which featured the champion Mul gladiator Rikus and his fighting partner Neeva) a great Obsidian structure shot through the pyramid and began to drain the life out of the spectators. None could escape, for the gates had been closed and could not be opened from the inside. The reason became apparent:

That explains a lot.

[Dilloduck]

Oh, you mean squabbles of the Sunni v Shia variety, for example ? Well .. do these have a global impact ?

Equally, you could divide 'The Troubles' in Northern Ireland (and I said previously that only some of that was religious-based) between factionalism which saw Protestants opposing Catholics, and then, this was decades ago. HOWEVER ... this is small-fry stuff compared with Muslim GLOBAL terrorism, Dilloduck, which manifests as a straight pro-Islam fight against other religions, most notably Christianity.

The scale of what we're talking about where Muslims are concerned is, I say again, GLOBAL. Indeed, we've seen just HOW global in recent days, haven't we, with all the bloodthirstiness indulged over a certain YouTube video !

You have no equivalent to offer me from a Christian standpoint, and you're well aware of it.

Sunni, Wahabbi,Salafi, Alwawite, Shia. Hell ya their sectarian wars have a global impact. You ever hear of Syria, Iraq, Iran, etc etc.
I'm well aware of the fact that you choose to reject all equivalents by using YOUR standards. Easy to win a debate when you pick the rules.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Oh, you mean squabbles of the Sunni v Shia variety, for example ? Well .. do these have a global impact ?

Equally, you could divide 'The Troubles' in Northern Ireland (and I said previously that only some of that was religious-based) between factionalism which saw Protestants opposing Catholics, and then, this was decades ago. HOWEVER ... this is small-fry stuff compared with Muslim GLOBAL terrorism, Dilloduck, which manifests as a straight pro-Islam fight against other religions, most notably Christianity.

The scale of what we're talking about where Muslims are concerned is, I say again, GLOBAL. Indeed, we've seen just HOW global in recent days, haven't we, with all the bloodthirstiness indulged over a certain YouTube video !

You have no equivalent to offer me from a Christian standpoint, and you're well aware of it.

My friend he will find no equivalent to cite to you. He is a man beating a granite wall with a goose feather! And he gets impatient waiting for the wall to be beaten down to rubble..
Reminds me of the guy that was beating his head on a brick wall. Twelve times in a row would he slam his head into the wall ,stopping on the thirteenth to look at the wall and mutter to himself , laugh out loudly then resume . A passerby saw this amazing exihibition repeated over 10 times each time the man would stop for a moment after 12 consecutive head slams , mutter to himself let out a loud laugh and renew his performance. Finally the passerby could stand it no mre, his curiosity got thebetter of him. He walked over and ask the man. Say, hitting your head like that 12 times in a row has to hurt something fierce , why do stop on the thirteenth time and laugh out loud, surely the pain must be off the charts! Why do you keep doing it!???
The man stopped and with a big smile said, "because it feels so damn good when I stop"!!;)-Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

That explains a lot.

Thank you, thank you very much. I am sure that it did.
It reduced you down to a four word reply. AND THATS SURELY A BONUS!-;)
Now be a good chap and admit it was funny..-Tyr

[Dilloduck]

My friend he will find no equivalent to cite to you. He is a man beating a granite wall with a goose feather! And he gets impatient waiting for the wall to be beaten down to rubble..
Reminds me of the guy that was beating his head on a brick wall. Twelve times in a row would he slam his head into the wall ,stopping on the thirteenth to look at the wall and mutter to himself , laugh out loudly then resume . A passerby saw this amazing exihibition repeated over 10 times each time the man would stop for a moment after 12 consecutive head slams , mutter to himself let out a loud laugh and renew his performance. Finally the passerby could stand it no mre, his curiosity got thebetter of him. He walked over and ask the man. Say, hitting your head like that 12 times in a row has to hurt something fierce , why do stop on the thirteenth time and laugh out loud, surely the pain must be off the charts! Why do you keep doing it!???
The man stopped and with a big smile said, "because it feels so damn good when I stop"!!;)-Tyr

Oldest joke in the world--I think they invented it during the Crusades.

[gabosaurus]

What about the multiple personalities of Christian rage? One would need to differentiate between the quiet believers and those who drown their kids in bathtubs or stick them in microwaves.

[Voted4Reagan]

What about the multiple personalities of Christian rage? One would need to differentiate between the quiet believers and those who drown their kids in bathtubs or stick them in microwaves.


Provide for us a list of all the Pizza Parlors, Police Stations, Schools, Hospitals, Catering Halls, Dance Clubs, Office Buildings and Other places that have been Blown up or attacked in the last 20 years in the name of JESUS.

And dont try and say The Murrow Building in OKC.... that was an Anti Government Bombing... it had nothing to do with religion..

Please Gabby...Show us where this CHRISTIAN RAGE has manifested itself to claim the lives of NON CHRISTIANS...

we're waiting...

[gabosaurus]

And dont try and say The Murrow Building in OKC.... that was an Anti Government Bombing... it had nothing to do with religion..


Is that why it was timed on the anniversary of the Waco attacks on the David Koresh compound?

You don't think any of the current conflicts are religiously motivated? Think again. How many wars throughout history have been attributed to religious strife?

[Dilloduck]

I think you have to use an example from today. For some reason anything that happened in the past isn't allowed in this discussion.

[Drummond]

Dilloduck and Gabby .. you're in the same position when it comes to an inability to find equivalent acts of terrorist outrage committed by Christians (or any other world religion) comparable to those meted out by adherents to Islam.

Aren't you ?

Gabby, you've yet to properly respond to 'Voted4Reagan'. Dilloduck, likewise to my challenges.

I won't hold my breath .. obviously. I realise how great a bind you two are in on this.

Still .. Dilloduck ... you have tried a measure of misdirection. It's worth an answer nonetheless.

I have indeed heard of Syria, Iran and Iraq. But, HOW have those countries had their impact outside of their borders ?

Syria ... the possibility of WMD's getting into the hands of terrorists. Yes, but what terrorists, and what would they do once they obtained them ? You see, we're not talking about CHRISTIAN terrorists, but MUSLIM terrorists, who'd attack CHRISTIAN countries with them !!

So much for the Syria example, then.

Iraq. Well, that became a problem because of the question of Saddam's WMD's. Everyone was sure he had them, he never produced proof to the contrary. The Iraq War happened, and the rest is 'history'. Now ... Saddam was a problem, in no small measure because of the associations he had with terrorists, most notably Hamas, which he helped bankroll. Hamas is .. MUSLIM, and has as a core principle of its charter its wish to see the destruction of Israel.

Now, does Israel have the same core principle towards Gaza ? Because Gaza still exists ! Israel, I'm sure, could've wiped Gaza out long ago if they'd wanted.

Anyway, we had the terrorism by Muslim terrorists ranged against Coalition (i.e non-Muslim) forces. FOR YEARS ..

Iran. A particularly poor example ? Recall their extermination threat to Israel ?? One they're working to make good on ?? Israel, if it ever attacks Iran, will do so as an act of self-defence, as a counter to a genocidal threat which IRAN HAS NEVER RESCINDED.

.. oh, and you forgot Afghanistan ... which hosted Al Qaeda terrorism, and whose Muslims have been busy attacking Christian forces ever since. If Afghanistan ever reverts to its former state, it will once more present a Muslim threat to the Western World.

Time and again, Dilloduck, if Christians act, it's in a policing role .. to KEEP MUSLIM BELLIGERENTS AT BAY. There is no such thing as Christian global terrorism .. but there certainly is where Islam is involved.

AND WE ALL KNOW IT.

[aboutime]

Provide for us a list of all the Pizza Parlors, Police Stations, Schools, Hospitals, Catering Halls, Dance Clubs, Office Buildings and Other places that have been Blown up or attacked in the last 20 years in the name of JESUS.

And dont try and say The Murrow Building in OKC.... that was an Anti Government Bombing... it had nothing to do with religion..

Please Gabby...Show us where this CHRISTIAN RAGE has manifested itself to claim the lives of NON CHRISTIANS...

we're waiting...


V4R. Just another reminder to you with reference to your challenges to Gabby, and Dilloduck.

Remember. "It is impossible to hold an intelligent conversation, talk, discussion, or debate with anyone that has little, if any, intelligence they haven't been trained, or conditioned to instantly respond with in any conversation, talk, discussion, or debate."
It just isn't going to happen unless they decide who, and what is being discussed, and only on their terms.

[Dilloduck]

I have indeed heard of Syria, Iran and Iraq. But, HOW have those countries had their impact outside of their borders ?

Oil--wmds. C'mon man--get with it.

[Dilloduck]

Dilloduck and Gabby .. you're in the same position when it comes to an inability to find equivalent acts of terrorist outrage committed by Christians (or any other world religion) comparable to those meted out by adherents to Islam.

Aren't you ?

Gabby, you've yet to properly respond to 'Voted4Reagan'. Dilloduck, likewise to my challenges.

I won't hold my breath .. obviously. I realise how great a bind you two are in on this.

Still .. Dilloduck ... you have tried a measure of misdirection. It's worth an answer nonetheless.

I have indeed heard of Syria, Iran and Iraq. But, HOW have those countries had their impact outside of their borders ?

Syria ... the possibility of WMD's getting into the hands of terrorists. Yes, but what terrorists, and what would they do once they obtained them ? You see, we're not talking about CHRISTIAN terrorists, but MUSLIM terrorists, who'd attack CHRISTIAN countries with them !!

So much for the Syria example, then.

Iraq. Well, that became a problem because of the question of Saddam's WMD's. Everyone was sure he had them, he never produced proof to the contrary. The Iraq War happened, and the rest is 'history'. Now ... Saddam was a problem, in no small measure because of the associations he had with terrorists, most notably Hamas, which he helped bankroll. Hamas is .. MUSLIM, and has as a core principle of its charter its wish to see the destruction of Israel.

Now, does Israel have the same core principle towards Gaza ? Because Gaza still exists ! Israel, I'm sure, could've wiped Gaza out long ago if they'd wanted.

Anyway, we had the terrorism by Muslim terrorists ranged against Coalition (i.e non-Muslim) forces. FOR YEARS ..

Iran. A particularly poor example ? Recall their extermination threat to Israel ?? One they're working to make good on ?? Israel, if it ever attacks Iran, will do so as an act of self-defence, as a counter to a genocidal threat which IRAN HAS NEVER RESCINDED.

.. oh, and you forgot Afghanistan ... which hosted Al Qaeda terrorism, and whose Muslims have been busy attacking Christian forces ever since. If Afghanistan ever reverts to its former state, it will once more present a Muslim threat to the Western World.

Time and again, Dilloduck, if Christians act, it's in a policing role .. to KEEP MUSLIM BELLIGERENTS AT BAY. There is no such thing as Christian global terrorism .. but there certainly is where Islam is involved.

AND WE ALL KNOW IT.

The whole world had to fight to keep secularists and athiest at bay. Even muslims.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

The whole world had to fight to keep secularists and athiest at bay. Even muslims.

Still not listing those Christian attacks you and Gabby claim that Drummonds requested I see.-:laugh:
Don't worry nobody else noticed that, really.. sshhh. Its our little secret.:laugh2: -Tyr

[Dilloduck]

Still not listing those Christian attacks you and Gabby claim that Drummonds requested I see.-:laugh:
Don't worry nobody else noticed that, really.. sshhh. Its our little secret.:laugh2: -Tyr

I gave up----y'all ignore the answers or claim them to be somehow "invalid". Waste of my time.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I gave up----y'all ignore the answers or claim them to be somehow "invalid". Waste of my time.

Like you really tried...Isaw no list--Tyr

[Dilloduck]

You reject them out of hand anyway. Why should anyone bother ?"

[Dilloduck]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

ok there's one for your reading pleasure

[jimnyc]

I gave up----y'all ignore the answers or claim them to be somehow "invalid". Waste of my time.

Shall I link you to yesterday where you refused to answer my question and stated you didn't have to prove anything to anyone upon request? Pot kettle or something like that?


You reject them out of hand anyway. Why should anyone bother ?"

Because when someone takes the time to write out a long detailed post to you, with reason and thought, YOU dismiss it with your one liners. The somehow delude yourself into thinking you can make these great points and as well as others with one or 2 short sentences. I ask YOU, why should others bother?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

ok there's one for your reading pleasure

I wouldn't condone, only condemn. Nothing good about that link at all, even if a rarity in the Christian world. Unlike Muslims, and deniers such as yourself, I'll be honest when the time comes, show my disapproval, and admit it when necessary, but point out how minute in comparison to the Muslim world which does that much on a weekly basis - and people like you - and the muslims themselves - deny it and excuse it.

[Dilloduck]

I didn't refuse to answer your question. I refused to do your little assignment. Jimmy I'm not asking anyone to write novels so I really don't feel obligated to respond to a post using the same amount of space they did. Since when has that been any kind of standard ?

Murdering Christians don't count as an example ? What a shocker.

[jimnyc]

I didn't refuse to answer your question. I refused to do your little assignment. Jimmy I'm not asking anyone to write novels so I really don't feel obligated to respond to a post using the same amount of space they did. Since when has that been any kind of standard ?

Murdering Christians don't count as an example ? What a shocker.

Did I say it didn't count? It's disgusting that they killed and I don't condone it in any way whatsoever, and I have no idea why they did what they did, but it doesn't matter, as there is NO excuse for it. Where if you are a Muslim, there ARE excuses to kill, where it's condoned. Their own Shariah Law calls for death for petty things. That's sick, but not condemned but by a rare few, and then we are called bigots and told we are making things up.

And you did refuse, and I then went and did the research for you. You are NOT out there taking the time to condemn the atrocities being committed by Muslims all over the world - but sure are taking the time to condemn those that are condemning it. Taking the time to condemn those who provoke Islam, taking the time to speak out against those that just dislike or hate Islam, or want war with Islam. Basically you condemn an awful lot, BUT the murdering being committed by the Muslims. I dunno, maybe you're not just trying to irritate a handful of members, maybe you're trying to impress Jafar or Abso? Either way, I find your balance of right and wrong a little off kilter and maybe you need the weight division in your state to come recalibrate your scale.

[Dilloduck]

Did I say it didn't count? It's disgusting that they killed and I don't condone it in any way whatsoever, and I have no idea why they did what they did, but it doesn't matter, as there is NO excuse for it. Where if you are a Muslim, there ARE excuses to kill, where it's condoned. Their own Shariah Law calls for death for petty things. That's sick, but not condemned but by a rare few, and then we are called bigots and told we are making things up.

And you did refuse, and I then went and did the research for you. You are NOT out there taking the time to condemn the atrocities being committed by Muslims all over the world - but sure are taking the time to condemn those that are condemning it. Taking the time to condemn those who provoke Islam, taking the time to speak out against those that just dislike or hate Islam, or want war with Islam. Basically you condemn an awful lot, BUT the murdering being committed by the Muslims. I dunno, maybe you're not just trying to irritate a handful of members, maybe you're trying to impress Jafar or Abso? Either way, I find your balance of right and wrong a little off kilter and maybe you need the weight division in your state to come recalibrate your scale.

Hold it---in a debate it's not my job to try to make YOUR point for you nor vice versa. I don't see anyone else balancing out the scales when they argue how much WORSE Islam is. They don't acknowlege Christian massacres in fact they discount them as having happened too long ago. Sorry Jim but maybe you outta check your own scales.

[jimnyc]

Hold it---in a debate it's not my job to try to make YOUR point for you nor vice versa. I don't see anyone else balancing out the scales when they argue how much WORSE Islam is. They don't acknowlege Christian massacres in fact they discount them as having happened too long ago. Sorry Jim but maybe you outta check your own scales.

As stated in another thread to you, I'm done with the trolling days. I'm done playing with those that are not intelligent enough to write more than a sentence or 2 and are solely looking to get a rise. I'm done talking with those who profess their intelligence and then place laziness and one liners on display. We have a nice group posting now and I'm sure you'll find someone to play your little games. But my son is home sick today and would put more energy into a discussion than you, and is also intelligent enough to see the scale of justice and how it leans, and which religion is TOTALLY out of control and murdering throughout the world on a daily basis. If you TRULY desired discussion you would DISCUSS. But anyone is free to look at your last 200 posts. I'd be surprised if FIVE of them were more than 2 sentences long. That is NOT a desire to discuss, that's a desire to be lazy and play games with those posting. I'm done biting, and you've sunk to the bottom of the water anyway. I'll let the algae play games with you from here on out.

Take care, buddy!

[Dilloduck]

As stated in another thread to you, I'm done with the trolling days. I'm done playing with those that are not intelligent enough to write more than a sentence or 2 and are solely looking to get a rise. I'm done talking with those who profess their intelligence and then place laziness and one liners on display. We have a nice group posting now and I'm sure you'll find someone to play your little games. But my son is home sick today and would put more energy into a discussion than you, and is also intelligent enough to see the scale of justice and how it leans, and which religion is TOTALLY out of control and murdering throughout the world on a daily basis. If you TRULY desired discussion you would DISCUSS. But anyone is free to look at your last 200 posts. I'd be surprised if FIVE of them were more than 2 sentences long. That is NOT a desire to discuss, that's a desire to be lazy and play games with those posting. I'm done biting, and you've sunk to the bottom of the water anyway. I'll let the algae play games with you from here on out.

Take care, buddy!

Long posts aren't any more a sign of intelligence that a fat resume. You're just looking for an excuse to discount what I say in my posts. I could type a lot more stuff after this but every bit of it would be superfluous and bore the reader. Might even insult some readers who would claim it was a waste of bandwidth. I could do it anyway just to prove I could do it and even interject it with prolific verbage and fancy fonts but I think I'll stick with this--it's almost 3 whole lines.
Take care too.

[jafar00]

Did I say it didn't count? It's disgusting that they killed and I don't condone it in any way whatsoever, and I have no idea why they did what they did, but it doesn't matter, as there is NO excuse for it. Where if you are a Muslim, there ARE excuses to kill, where it's condoned. Their own Shariah Law calls for death for petty things. That's sick, but not condemned but by a rare few, and then we are called bigots and told we are making things up.

Show me where in the Qur'aan it says I am supposed to be out on a murder spree rather than search for cake shops on the internet and planning a trip to the beach for the weekend?

[tailfins]

Show me where in the Qur'aan it says I am supposed to be out on a murder spree rather than search for cake shops on the internet and planning a trip to the beach for the weekend?

You make an excellent point. The the profile of those planning terrorist attacks against the US is more important than the minutiae of their religious beliefs. All that matters is how their their religious beliefs serves the methodology of their attacks.

[Dilloduck]

The profile of those planning terrorist attacks against the US CANNOT include Islam. If it does we will never defeat it. I say the religion has been hijacked---by politicians, by criminals and by ambitious Islamic clergymen who are all out to serve their OWN ends not Allahs. We have seen this done before with other religions and those other religions are still having to defend themselves by saying " you misunderstand--those people weren't REAL _______s ". Or "They were being brainwashed" or " they were doing it out of fear.
What we're seeing happen in the Arab world today is presented to us by the media. I don't know about you but I take the media with a humongous grain of salt until I hear a whole lot of evidence. The media has an agenda---we all now that.
Words from the Koran are used to damn all Muslims-----They are words--just that. There are Christians who do NOT believe every word of the Bible nor do they act on them. Should all Christians be condemned fro that ? They are Christian preachers who tell us to hate--in AMERICA. I could take a media crew and put together one hell of a documentary that would make Christianity look like some alien religion. THEY HANDLE POISONOUS SNAKES.
The only reasonable approach to resolving this is to not become as fantantic as the hijackers. Treat them as the law breakers they are. AND NOT GIVE IN TO THE TERROR THAT BIN LADEN TRIED SO HARD TO INSTILL IN US.

[tailfins]

The profile of those planning terrorist attacks against the US CANNOT include Islam. If it does we will never defeat it. I say the religion has been hijacked---by politicians, by criminals and by ambitious Islamic clergymen who are all out to serve their OWN ends not Allahs. We have seen this done before with other religions and those other religions are still having to defend themselves by saying " you misunderstand--those people weren't REAL _______s ". Or "They were being brainwashed" or " they were doing it out of fear.
What we're seeing happen in the Arab world today is presented to us by the media. I don't know about you but I take the media with a humongous grain of salt until I hear a whole lot of evidence. The media has an agenda---we all now that.
Words from the Koran are used to damn all Muslims-----They are words--just that. There are Christians who do NOT believe every word of the Bible nor do they act on them. Should all Christians be condemned fro that ? They are Christian preachers who tell us to hate--in AMERICA. I could take a media crew and put together one hell of a documentary that would make Christianity look like some alien religion. THEY HANDLE POISONOUS SNAKES.
The only reasonable approach to resolving this is to not become as fantantic as the hijackers. Treat them as the law breakers they are. AND NOT GIVE IN TO THE TERROR THAT BIN LADEN TRIED SO HARD TO INSTILL IN US.

Counter-terrorism is a form of military science. The point is to be successful irrespective of political correctness. I say just let COMPETENT military scientists do their job. If ugly tactics are necessary to achieve success: fine. If they are not necessary: fine also.

[jimnyc]

Show me where in the Qur'aan it says I am supposed to be out on a murder spree rather than search for cake shops on the internet and planning a trip to the beach for the weekend?

As soon as you show me I where I said it was in the Quran. I said Shariah Law, and in some places just for the hell of it. Try explaining 20,000 attacks around the world by muslims in 10 years with a few hundred thousand dead as a result. Can you explain that if the Quran and Islam is so peaceful? YOU may be peaceful, no one ever said 100% of muslims were animals, but out of the 100% of human animals in this world, the OVERWHELMING majority of them are muslims. And deny, deny, deny all you like. These FACTS of their attacks are there for anyone not wanting to deny the truth. While you're buying cakes and planning trips, a few million other muslims are buying semtex and suicide vests and looking to kill, and even their fellow muslims will do. That's disgusting and sick. Enjoy your trip, they apparently think they're about to enjoy a trip to fantasyland with a bevy of virgins. And all people like you can say is that they don't represent Islam. Nevermind that there are millions of them, it's not a problem. :rolleyes:

[gabosaurus]

The profile of those planning terrorist attacks against the US CANNOT include Islam. If it does we will never defeat it. I say the religion has been hijacked---by politicians, by criminals and by ambitious Islamic clergymen who are all out to serve their OWN ends not Allahs.

Strangely enough, this is exactly what I have heard from Muslims living peacefully here. They say it is much same as American religion which has been hijacked by right-wing extremists who use it to justify violence here against Muslims.
I was once asked what is the ratio of extremist Muslim attacks on American citizens in the U.S. to attacks on Muslims by supposedly peaceful right wing crazies. Think about it.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Show me where in the Qur'aan it says I am supposed to be out on a murder spree rather than search for cake shops on the internet and planning a trip to the beach for the weekend?

It does not say Jafar must go on a murdering spree. However it contains about a 109 verses teaching/commanding violence in defense of Islam. I will not list them beause they have been listed here numerous times. The Quran contains at least that many verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter. Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's many calls to violence according to what their own moral preconceptions find justificable. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny.
There are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history. CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE IS THAT ISLAM HAS KILLED OVER 270 MILLION PEOPLE IN ITS LONG REIGN OF TERROR SINCE ITS BIRTH.-TYR

[jafar00]

As soon as you show me I where I said it was in the Quran. I said Shariah Law, and in some places just for the hell of it.

And what is the source of Sharia?

Show me why I should feel compelled to go out today and blow myself up in a crowded supermarket.


Try explaining 20,000 attacks around the world by muslims in 10 years with a few hundred thousand dead as a result.

Try explaining the shock and awe attacks by American Christians in the last 10 years that have resulted in millions dead as a result.


While you're buying cakes and planning trips, a few million other muslims are buying semtex and suicide vests and looking to kill, and even their fellow muslims will do. That's disgusting and sick. Enjoy your trip, they apparently think they're about to enjoy a trip to fantasyland with a bevy of virgins. And all people like you can say is that they don't represent Islam. Nevermind that there are millions of them, it's not a problem. :rolleyes:

A few million? So where are these millions of people exploding? Think about what you are saying there. It's a little bit disturbing.




It does not say Jafar must go on a murdering spree. However it contains about a 109 verses teaching/commanding violence in defense of Islam. I will not list them beause they have been listed here numerous times. The Quran contains at least that many verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter. Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

I know which verses you mean. Why not list a few and I will explain in context what they mean at least in the way that I have learned in my Islamic studies? Anything to make you realise the error of your perception and how you have been led astray by hateful people would be a good thing.

[jimnyc]

And what is the source of Sharia?

Show me why I should feel compelled to go out today and blow myself up in a crowded supermarket.

Try explaining the shock and awe attacks by American Christians in the last 10 years that have resulted in millions dead as a result.

A few million? So where are these millions of people exploding? Think about what you are saying there. It's a little bit disturbing.

Quite honestly, I couldn't care less what the source for Shariah is. But if this Shariah is allowing people to be beaten or killed for the pettiest of things, then Shariah is the shit and the people delivering punishment from it are lower than shit. Sorry, you'll never convince me that its somehow ok to kill someone because they condemn Muhammed, or become an apostate, or commit blasphemy. That's the act of savages and animals.

Why should YOU feel compelled? Have no idea, did I say YOU should? Do you live under Shariah law? Do you want to? Do you want your wife to? Will you BEAT your wife if she condemns the Prophet? What if she becomes and apostate and leaves Islam? Do you kill her? Divorce her? Stay married? Your answers will either place you in line with the savages or separate you from them. I would have thought you different, much different in fact. But your relentless defense of such things makes me wonder at times. What if I met you someday, Jafar, and we're doing a little surfing in Australia. I have a few drinks, and I tell you to your face that I "believe" that the Prophet Muhammed was a pedophile for marrying a 6 year old and having sex with her at the age of 9. Do you slice my throat? Call a jihad or fatwa? Beat me somehow? Or turn the other cheek and talk or walk away? Again, your answers make you who you are, you can be civilized or you can be a savage. And sorry if it hurts your feelings from this "Arrogant American Asshole", but one who defends this sickening behavior makes me ill at times. I won't defend ANY Christian EVER killing for ANY reason, and ESPECIALLY not over stupid words or a dumb movie.

[Dilloduck]

Strangely enough, this is exactly what I have heard from Muslims living peacefully here. They say it is much same as American religion which has been hijacked by right-wing extremists who use it to justify violence here against Muslims.
I was once asked what is the ratio of extremist Muslim attacks on American citizens in the U.S. to attacks on Muslims by supposedly peaceful right wing crazies. Think about it.

Don't think,Gabby. Get hysterical because millions of Muslims are planning right now to GIT you and your little dog Toto too. Go all emo.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

.........
I know which verses you mean. Why not list a few and I will explain in context what they mean at least in the way that I have learned in my Islamic studies? Anything to make you realise the error of your perception and how you have been led astray by hateful people would be a good thing.

Here is a short list of verses.-Tyr

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..."
Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?



Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"



Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.



Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."



Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"
Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context . The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

[jimnyc]

Don't think,Gabby. Get hysterical because millions of Muslims are planning right now to GIT you and your little dog Toto too. Go all emo.

Or maybe you can advise her to act ignorant and the little monsters will go away, tell her it's all made up fantasy and that the violence is all for show and no one is really dying out there. Tell her it's ok to murder and abuse women, because since it's so far away it's none of our business. You sicken me anymore, Dillo, WTF happened to you?

[Voted4Reagan]

in just the last 36 hours.....

2012.09.21 (Nawa, Afghanistan) - Woman and children are among five people exterminated by Taliban bombers.

2012.09.21 (Sinai, Israel) - Terrorists shoot fire at a group of IDFsoldiers providing water to migrants, killing one.

2012.09.21 (Pattani, Thailand) - Muslims detonate a car bomb to punish businesses for staying open during an Islamic holy day.

2012.09.20 (Basilan, Philippines) - Abu Sayyaf gunmen shoot dead four unarmed laborers.

2012.09.20 (Mogadishu, Somalia) - Two Religion of Peace suicide bombers detonate in a restaurant, taking out fifteen patrons.

2012.09.20 (Baghdad, Iraq) - A children's doctor is among six Iraqis who lose their lives to Muslim terrorists.

[red states rule]

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/


<tbody>


So, you think the Ku Klux Klan
and the Spanish Inquisition are bad?
So do we, but...
Put the Numbers in Perspective




More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined. (source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition))



Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years. (source (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_were_killed_by_the_Ku_Klux_Klan))




More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland. (source (http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/violence/death95w.htm))


19 Muslim hijackers killed more innocents in two hours on September 11th than the number of American criminals executed in the last 65 years. (source (http://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions-united-states-1608-1976-state))



</tbody>

[Voted4Reagan]

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/


<tbody>


So, you think the Ku Klux Klan
and the Spanish Inquisition are bad?
So do we, but...
Put the Numbers in Perspective




More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined. (source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition))



Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years. (source (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_were_killed_by_the_Ku_Klux_Klan))




More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland. (source (http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/violence/death95w.htm))


19 Muslim hijackers killed more innocents in two hours on September 11th than the number of American criminals executed in the last 65 years. (source (http://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions-united-states-1608-1976-state))



</tbody>

To Islamo-Pologists like Dillo those numbers are irrelevant when a political agenda is at stake....

[Dilloduck]

To Islamo-Pologists like Dillo those numbers are irrelevant when a political agenda is at stake....

Political agenda ? :laugh2: I'm not affiliated with any political party. Our political parties are a joke.
In case you didn't know, Al qaeda is still at war so they kill. The numbers of muslims that our troops have killed in the last 10 years ago are staggering but the US doesn't keep a body count. Thousands were civilians that were either caught in a cross fire or just a case of mistaken identity.
It would be great if it all stopped.

[Dilloduck]

Or maybe you can advise her to act ignorant and the little monsters will go away, tell her it's all made up fantasy and that the violence is all for show and no one is really dying out there. Tell her it's ok to murder and abuse women, because since it's so far away it's none of our business. You sicken me anymore, Dillo, WTF happened to you?

Nothing happened to me, Jim. Since when has condemning the whole barrel of apples because of a few bad ones been in vogue ? We demand for the moderates to speak out and condemn the violence-- they finally do and what do we do? Call them liars. Pretty dishonest I'd say.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Political agenda ? :laugh2: I'm not affiliated with any political party. Our political parties are a joke.
In case you didn't know, Al qaeda is still at war so they kill. The numbers of muslims that our troops have killed in the last 10 years ago are staggering but the US doesn't keep a body count. Thousands were civilians that were either caught in a cross fire or just a case of mistaken identity.
It would be great if it all stopped.

What, no muslim party here for you to join? How about the MSA..??
You defend them better than Jafar does IMHO. Of course he does because its his religion but you do so because of your what, your amazing righteous sense of fair play? For it seems that is what you have indicated by your past posts here. Which is sheer stupidity when its also defending murdering scum that murder innocent people often women and children! Thats the big thorn that pricks you everytime. How to weael around that obvious brutal truth!Yet you try , man do you try. -Tyr

[Dilloduck]

What, no muslim party here for you to join? How about the MSA..??
You defend them better than Jafar does IMHO. Of course he does because its his religion but you do so because of your what, your amazing righteous sense of fair play? For it seems that is what you have indicated by your past posts here. Which is sheer stupidity when its also defending murdering scum that murder innocent people often women and children! Thats the big thorn that pricks you everytime. How to weael around that obvious brutal truth!Yet you try , man do you try. -Tyr


Lies----you keep repeating the same lies.

[red states rule]

Political agenda ? :laugh2: I'm not affiliated with any political party. Our political parties are a joke.
In case you didn't know, Al qaeda is still at war so they kill. The numbers of muslims that our troops have killed in the last 10 years ago are staggering but the US doesn't keep a body count. Thousands were civilians that were either caught in a cross fire or just a case of mistaken identity.
It would be great if it all stopped.

I do not recall you answering my question. Are you going to stay home and pout on Election Day or are you going to vote?

Will you throw away your vote for someone like Ron Paul or will you vote for Obama?

As far as civilians getting killed the US miliary does not like it when they get killed but it would help if they would get the hell out of the way

[Voted4Reagan]

You're so far off base with that one that you should be embarassed. Return to Tyr and do not collect $200.

Actually... The Violence wasnt CATHOLIC vs PROTESTANT ....

it was Republican vs Tory... It was just a by product that 99.9% of the IRA was Catholic and 99.9% of the RUC and others were Protestant.

but maybe the Pelestinians and others can learn from the IRA and Sinn Fein....

DISARM AND PEACE WILL FOLLOW...

Do you now call on the Palestinians to Disarm and Pursue a course of Peace with Israel??

I sure do...

[gabosaurus]

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/2/7/129100842357204264.jpg

[jimnyc]

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/2/7/129100842357204264.jpg

If it was realistic, you might lower the picture and see the kevlar and semtex too!

[Abbey Marie]

Nothing happened to me, Jim. Since when has condemning the whole barrel of apples because of a few bad ones been in vogue ? We demand for the moderates to speak out and condemn the violence-- they finally do and what do we do? Call them liars. Pretty dishonest I'd say.

It's considerably more than "a few"; to the point that the barrel itself has turned rotten. Dillo, I just don't get why you keep trying to minimize this, despite so much evidence shown to the contrary.

Ah, that word- contrary. Could you just be a contrarian?

[Dilloduck]

It's considerably more than "a few"; to the point that the barrel itself has turned rotten. Dillo, I just don't get why you keep trying to minimize this, despite so much evidence shown to the contrary.

Ah, that word- contrary. Could you just be a contrarian?

Abbey---All muslims aren't rotten and you know it. I've never said this is a small problem. I just don't think it's risen to the point where and all the members of a religion need to be condemned. We may as well have Hitler all over again. Arab radicals need to be stopped. The killing needs to stop. I've said this OVER AND OVER ad nauseum but people choose to ignore it.

Contrarian ? Because I disagree ? Do you really think everyone needs to be on one side of this issue ?

[Voted4Reagan]

3948

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Abbey---All muslims aren't rotten and you know it. I've never said this is a small problem. I just don't think it's risen to the point where and all the members of a religion need to be condemned. We may as well have Hitler all over again. Arab radicals need to be stopped. The killing needs to stop. I've said this OVER AND OVER ad nauseum but people choose to ignore it.

Contrarian ? Because I disagree ? Do you really think everyone needs to be on one side of this issue ?

Everyone is not on one side of this issue. I believe that condemning their extreme and rountine violence is the right thing to do. I do not understand somebody that supposedly disapproves of that violence defending them in any way. How do you defend the deliberate murder of innocent people , women and children ? Yet those that defend Islam do just that!
You are wrong , there is no righteous defense of such evil! There are about 1.5 billion of them defending it why do you feel that you should too?-Tyr

[jafar00]

Quite honestly, I couldn't care less what the source for Shariah is. But if this Shariah is allowing people to be beaten or killed for the pettiest of things, then Shariah is the shit and the people delivering punishment from it are lower than shit. Sorry, you'll never convince me that its somehow ok to kill someone because they condemn Muhammed, or become an apostate, or commit blasphemy. That's the act of savages and animals.

I never did say it is ok.


Why should YOU feel compelled?

Apparently my religion commands me to beat my wife, kill innocent people and rape their young daughters. I have yet to come across such teachings though. I wanted you to enlighten me ;)


Have no idea, did I say YOU should? Do you live under Shariah law?

We live under Sharia in my house.


Do you want to? Do you want your wife to?

Yes I do.


Will you BEAT your wife if she condemns the Prophet?

No. I should never beat her. Ever! It's not what I want and it's not what my religion teaches me.


What if she becomes and apostate and leaves Islam? Do you kill her? Divorce her? Stay married?

Divorce would be considered.


Your answers will either place you in line with the savages or separate you from them. I would have thought you different, much different in fact. But your relentless defense of such things makes me wonder at times. What if I met you someday, Jafar, and we're doing a little surfing in Australia. I have a few drinks, and I tell you to your face that I "believe" that the Prophet Muhammed was a pedophile for marrying a 6 year old and having sex with her at the age of 9. Do you slice my throat? Call a jihad or fatwa? Beat me somehow? Or turn the other cheek and talk or walk away?

I would give you a history lesson about how marriage at onset of puberty was a common occurrence and accepted practice at the time.

Then I would make fun of you being drunk. Maybe post a video of you throwing up on yourself youtube. :)))


Again, your answers make you who you are, you can be civilized or you can be a savage. And sorry if it hurts your feelings from this "Arrogant American Asshole", but one who defends this sickening behavior makes me ill at times. I won't defend ANY Christian EVER killing for ANY reason, and ESPECIALLY not over stupid words or a dumb movie.

So, who am I?


Here is a short list of verses.-Tyr

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..."

Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

I don't see your soldiers slacking off either. And I have seen videos of them killing innocent people. If you are at war, you fight until the enemy surrenders. You also missed the last part. "but ye have Hope from Allah, while they have none. And Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.". A message of hope for a soldier.


Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

This was revealed at a time when the Muslims in Medina were under attack from all sides and even from within by double agents. Depending on the severity of their treason, they were given differing punishments. That was over 1400 years ago....


Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Um... this was something for the angels to do in battle. After he battle of Badr, some corpses of the enemy looked as is they were branded by fire over their necks, fingers and toes. Those were the ones killed by the angels.


Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Battle of Badr again. A command not to desert your fellow soldiers in the heat of battle. Deserters go to hell.


Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"
Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context . The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Again you missed a bit. the full surah (Mohamad Pikthall's interpretation)

And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.

At this time, the Meccan pagans were at war with the Muslims. The "fitna" or more accurately "tumult or oppression" refers to the way that Muslims were captured and tortured in order to make them abandon their faith. If they (the meccans) stopped their persecution and oppression, they were to be left alone for God alone to punish them in the afterlife.

[red states rule]

Abbey---All muslims aren't rotten and you know it. I've never said this is a small problem. I just don't think it's risen to the point where and all the members of a religion need to be condemned. We may as well have Hitler all over again. Arab radicals need to be stopped. The killing needs to stop. I've said this OVER AND OVER ad nauseum but people choose to ignore it.

Contrarian ? Because I disagree ? Do you really think everyone needs to be on one side of this issue ?


Not all Muslims are terrorists

But all terrorists have turned out to be Muslims

Yet for some reason, some people refuse to admit this obvious fact

[Dilloduck]

Not all Muslims are terrorists

But all terrorists have turned out to be Muslims

Yet for some reason, some people refuse to admit this obvious fact

McVeigh wasn't a muslim. Columbine wasn't done by muslims. etc etc That's why people refuse to admit you "obvious fact". All muslims and all terrorists are gross generalizations that only serve to promote hate. There are millions of Muslims who have never rioted or killed yet you portray them as such. If you want to just vent fine, if you want a solution you can't falsely accuse people and then turn around and expect their cooperation. It won't work.

[red states rule]

McVeigh wasn't a muslim. Columbine wasn't done by muslims. etc etc That's why people refuse to admit you "obvious fact". All muslims and all terrorists are gross generalizations that only serve to promote hate. There are millions of Muslims who have never rioted or killed yet you portray them as such. If you want to just vent fine, if you want a solution you can't falsely accuse people and then turn around and expect their cooperation. It won't work.

McViegh and the punks at Columbine were not killing people in the nme of Allah. Also they were not shouting "Allah" as the killed people

For some reason folks like you want to ignore the obvious and do not want to offend Muslims by telling the truth

Obama and Co called the mureders at Ft Hood "work place violence"

The first step in finding solution is to admit Muslims make up most of the terrorists, and most of the Muslims countries hate us. Start there and the solution will be easier to find

[jafar00]

McViegh and the punks at Columbine were not killing people in the nme of Allah. Also they were not shouting "Allah" as the killed people

For some reason folks like you want to ignore the obvious and do not want to offend Muslims by telling the truth

Obama and Co called the mureders at Ft Hood "work place violence"

The first step in finding solution is to admit Muslims make up most of the terrorists, and most of the Muslims countries hate us. Start there and the solution will be easier to find

There were also massacres at Port Arthur, Norway and at a cinema showing batman. None of those were Muslims either.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

There were also massacres at Port Arthur, Norway and at a cinema showing batman. None of those were Muslims either.

Apples and oranges there jafar. Norway was about a crazed guy and his nationalistic ideology not religion. And he has been soundly condemn by most of the world. Batman movie shooting was just a damn crazy loon murdering people and had nothing to do with supporting any religion. Can't you do any better than posting this type of malarkey?-Tyr

[Abbey Marie]

Abbey---All muslims aren't rotten and you know it. I've never said this is a small problem. I just don't think it's risen to the point where and all the members of a religion need to be condemned. We may as well have Hitler all over again. Arab radicals need to be stopped. The killing needs to stop. I've said this OVER AND OVER ad nauseum but people choose to ignore it.

Contrarian ? Because I disagree ? Do you really think everyone needs to be on one side of this issue ?

Please show me where I said all Muslims were rotten. Exaggeration won't cut it. I have said, the sheer numbers of Muslims behaving violently and threatening other countries, is big. There is really no disputing that.

We are talking about you minimizing the problem over and over. I still don't get why you do that.

Contrarian because you seem to like taking the minority view, and it is hard to know what it is you do believe in, Dillo. I base this on years of admittedly casual observation. No offense.

[jimnyc]

Please show me where I said all Muslims were rotten. Exaggeration won't cut it.

Don't you love when others take your words, twist them, and try to make you into a villain? Wait until Jafar should read a post of yours. Condemn 10 terrorists and he'll talk about how degrading and dehumanizing you are to the entire Muslim population. Now, the question is, is it ignorance, stupidity, exaggeration or just the inability to comprehend intelligent discussion?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Don't you love when others take your words, twist them, and try to make you into a villain? Wait until Jafar should read a post of yours. Condemn 10 terrorists and he'll talk about how degrading and dehumanizing you are to the entire Muslim population. Now, the question is, is it ignorance, stupidity, exaggeration or just the inability to comprehend intelligent discussion?

Actually Jim, ITS JUST PLAIN 'OLE LYING..
Jafar is apparently a big belIever in Taqiyya. Right Jafar?
Its perfectly alright to lie to infidels, right? Thats the meaning of Taqiyya and its without any doubt a part of Islam with no standing for disputing that.
Care to discuss Taqiyya Jafar?

http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war

The Doctrine of Taqiyya
According to Shari'a—the body of legal rulings that defines how a Muslim should behave in all circumstances—deception is not only permitted in certain situations but may be deemed obligatory in others. Contrary to early Christian tradition, for instance, Muslims who were forced to choose between recanting Islam or suffering persecution were permitted to lie and feign apostasy. Other jurists have decreed that Muslims are obligated to lie in order to preserve themselves,[2] based on Qur'anic verses forbidding Muslims from being instrumental in their own deaths.[3]

This is the classic definition of the doctrine of taqiyya. Based on an Arabic word denoting fear, taqiyya has long been understood, especially by Western academics, as something to resort to in times of religious persecution and, for the most part, used in this sense by minority Shi'i groups living among hostile Sunni majorities.[4] Taqiyya allowed the Shi'a to dissemble their religious affiliation in front of the Sunnis on a regular basis, not merely by keeping clandestine about their own beliefs but by actively praying and behaving as if they were Sunnis.

However, one of the few books devoted to the subject, At-Taqiyya fi'l-Islam (Dissimulation in Islam) makes it clear that taqiyya is not limited to Shi'a dissimulating in fear of persecution. Written by Sami Mukaram, a former Islamic studies professor at the American University of Beirut and author of some twenty-five books on Islam, the book clearly demonstrates the ubiquity and broad applicability of taqiyya:

Taqiyya is of fundamental importance in Islam. Practically every Islamic sect agrees to it and practices it … We can go so far as to say that the practice of taqiyya is mainstream in Islam, and that those few sects not practicing it diverge from the mainstream … Taqiyya is very prevalent in Islamic politics, especially in the modern era.[5]

Taqiyya is, therefore, not, as is often supposed, an exclusively Shi'i phenomenon. Of course, as a minority group interspersed among their Sunni enemies, the Shi'a have historically had more reason to dissemble.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lying in Islam has been given official statas as a way to defeat Allah's enemies! Ordinary muslims practice it in many ways and a favorite widely used one is to almost always put on a false face(friendly) to the enemy, that's anybody not muslim, and speak softlyto them. Win the enemies's trust and you have half the battle already won!
Anybody speaking about Islam that has no knowledge of Taqiyya is , excuse my language, is full of shit!
Islam must be studied for anybody to speak about it in any truly informed way , otherwise they are speaking from the very false perception that has been engineered and cultivated for world consumption!
Islam is three things
1. It is total submission to Allah--- THE WORD TOTAL IS KEY!
2. It is murder and terror. ---MURDER/TERROR IS ITS FAVORITE AND MOST USED METHOD
3. It is deceit.- DECEIT, ALWAYS USED AND HAS BEEN EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE FOR
ISLAM. EXAMPLE, RELIGION OF PEACE
PEACE IN ISLAM IS WHEN ALL OF ALLAH'S ENEMIES ARE SLAIN OR ENSLAVED! FACT..

I PREDICT THAT IN LESS THAN TEN YEARS 90% OF THE INFIDELS THAT SO STUPIDLY THINK MY WORDS ARE WRONG WILL FIND OUT THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS! With it being so noted that it could easily be within the next 2 or 3 years..-Tyr