Dems remove Jerusalem as Israel's Capital..

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/09/democrats-punish-israel-remove-language-on-jerusalem-in-2012-dnc-platform/

Democrats Punish Israel – Remove Language on Jerusalem in 2012 DNC Platform
Posted by Jim Hoft on Tuesday, September 4, 2012, 10:03 AM
In 2008 Barack Obama told attendees at AIPAC that Jerusalem must remain the capital of Israel.

But that was back in 2008 when Obama needed the Jewish vote.
In March of this year the Obama State Department refused to call Jerusalem the capital of Israel.

Now this…
Democrats removed language recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel in their 2012 convention platform. Democrats also removed language that called on the international community to isolate Hamas.
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The worm turns and signals are sent to the muslims that dems and obama are truly with them!
Dont want to isolate Hamas! Of course bambots fools will scoff that this is nothing!!--Tyr

[aboutime]

Anyone think Israel is watching, listening, and wondering if Obama is gonna LIE to the world tomorrow...when he will either fess up, and announce that HE DOES NOT SUPPORT the Democrat Platform. Or just THROW Israel Under the Bus....as expected?


Those poor, selfish, lazy, ignorant, lying, gullible, frustrated, miserable Liberals at the Convention just CRUCIFIED THEIR MESSIAH.


Will Obama come back from the dead tomorrow? Or will he make all of those I mentioned above. The nation's final answer to STUPID?


America is now being introduced to the REAL ENEMIES OF AMERICA, sponsored by C.A.I.R. and the DNC's Own Debbie DOES DALLAS porn star for Clinton.

[Thunderknuckles]

No, they re-instated it today. I am surprised I haven't seen a post on this but not without controversy.
The DNC crowd can be heard turning their back on God and Jerusalem. Tony V. just couldn't accept what just happened and let the motion pass.
It's all over conservative media outlets right now. Unbelievable!

I'll post the audio if I can find it. It is a must hear.

[aboutime]

No, they re-instated it today. I am surprised I haven't seen a post on this but not without controversy.
The DNC crowd can be heard turning their back on God and Jerusalem. Tony V. just couldn't accept what just happened and let the motion pass.
It's all over conservative media outlets right now. Unbelievable!

I'll post the audio if I can find it. It is a must hear.


Thunderknuckles. Hope you find the audio. Meanwhile. Isn't it almost what most of us expected to hear from the Dems all along?

I honestly believe they have managed to show....a large portion of America who may have been leaning toward Obama. How they simply cannot, and should not make the same mistake again. Like the one they made in 2008 when they were SCARED into voting for Obama. Because they thought they would be singled out as Racists.

[Kathianne]

Remember, it's supposed to be a 2/3's vote:


http://youtu.be/IkI0k1XvGVM

The following gives better idea of the amendment to the rules, the above one does better of explaining what was happening behind the scenes.


http://youtu.be/v96Y8r2UPic

[jafar00]

Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel. Tel Aviv is. Jerusalem will be nobody's capital until it's disputed status is removed.

[logroller]

Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel. Tel Aviv is. Jerusalem will be nobody's capital until it's disputed status is removed.

If you recognize tel aviv as the capital, am I to assume you recognize the legitimacy of the state of Israel?
I think its important to put the horse before the cart-- As most every Arab nation refuses to recognize the state of Israel, I don't really think there will be any constructive debate with a pro-arab person regarding Israel's capital.

[logroller]

I always thought it was just 'aye' and 'nay', but I guess voice votes are different. I think that's odd too, because the long ō carries better IMO. It should go to a recorded vote I believe; not that my opinion matters, I'm not a godless pandering apologist democrat.:lol:

[Kathianne]

I always thought it was just 'aye' and 'nay', but I guess voice votes are different. I think that's odd too, because the long ō carries better IMO. It should go to a recorded vote I believe; not that my opinion matters, I'm not a godless pandering apologist democrat.:lol:

It needed a 2/3 vote. If they'd gone to the computer, it would have lost. Thus, the voice vote and the announced, "Carried."

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

It needed a 2/3 vote. If they'd gone to the computer, it would have lost. Thus, the voice vote and the announced, "Carried."

What a joke. We got to see how they operate even when voting among themselves they cheat They cheat on presenting their own principles! No honesty even there!-Tyr

[Kathianne]

What a joke. We got to see how they operate even when voting among themselves they cheat They cheat on presenting their own principles! No honesty even there!-Tyr

Certainly was a surreal moment. I'd been watching on C-Span, even with no commentary it was obvious that it was strange moment in a scripted convention. Later I came across the video from Fox, that was also interesting. :laugh2:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Certainly was a surreal moment. I'd been watching on C-Span, even with no commentary it was obvious that it was strange moment in a scripted convention. Later I came across the video from Fox, that was also interesting. :laugh2:

That is what has been running our nation! Obama and his fellow socialist cheaters.
I say vote him out then charge him for his treason!-Tyr

[Kathianne]

I'm all for voting him out, but fail to see any treason. Sigh.

[logroller]

What a joke. We got to see how they operate even when voting among themselves they cheat They cheat on presenting their own principles! No honesty even there!-Tyr
It's not really cheating when your nominated representative's modus operandi is ignoring your constituents' desires.

[logroller]

I'm all for voting him out, but fail to see any treason. Sigh.
Tyr's a proponent of any endeavor which delivers a capital sentence...That's pretty much his personal platform as I see it.:laugh:

[jimnyc]

Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel. Tel Aviv is. Jerusalem will be nobody's capital until it's disputed status is removed.


If you recognize tel aviv as the capital, am I to assume you recognize the legitimacy of the state of Israel?
I think its important to put the horse before the cart-- As most every Arab nation refuses to recognize the state of Israel, I don't really think there will be any constructive debate with a pro-arab person regarding Israel's capital.

There is a difference between what others recognize and what one State declares. Israel is free to name any city their capital and needs no permission or disputed status removed. Of course other countries don't have to recognize this either.

[jimnyc]

Remember, it's supposed to be a 2/3's vote:


http://youtu.be/IkI0k1XvGVM

I don't get it, that was honestly shocking to me. A man stands at a podium and determines something of importance based on what he thinks he hears, or who is louder? LOL At best, they sounded just as loud to me. But this is the type of things I used to see at rock concerts.

And then to later see Wasserman whatever her name is defend this was enough to make me vomit. :puke:

[jafar00]

There is a difference between what others recognize and what one State declares. Israel is free to name any city their capital and needs no permission or disputed status removed. Of course other countries don't have to recognize this either.

Jerusalem is also claimed by the Palestinians. If you recognise Israel's claim, you must also recognise Palestine's

[Thunderknuckles]

I don't get it, that was honestly shocking to me. A man stands at a podium and determines something of importance based on what he thinks he hears, or who is louder? LOL At best, they sounded just as loud to me. But this is the type of things I used to see at rock concerts.

And then to later see Wasserman whatever her name is defend this was enough to make me vomit. :puke:

First, thanks to Kat for the video.

I heard it several times over the radio. You really need to close your eyes and just listen to the audio and it is clear to anyone not deaf and delusional that not only did it not it not carry with a 2/3 vote, the "No" vote was actually in the slight majority.

Jim, I'm with you on Debbie Wasserman Shultz. I couldn't believe what came out of her mouth. Even Anderson Cooper accused her of living in an alternate universe. Just goes to show you what Democrats think of even their on people. When we want your opinion, we'll tell it to you. When we want your vote, we'll give it for you.

What a juicy mess this could have been but slick Willy had to come on and give an effective speech that, IMO, overshadowed all of this.

[Voted4Reagan]

Jerusalem is also claimed by the Palestinians. If you recognise Israel's claim, you must also recognise Palestine's

So do you recognize Israels right to exist?

Do you Jaffar?

Yes or NO please....

[Thunderknuckles]

Tony was clearly unprepared for all of this. All he had to do was a roll call vote after the verbal one failed to be decisive.
Then again, I don't think the Dems ever had any intention of letting this thing fail. Can you imagine the headlines?
"Democrats have officially voted to renounce God!"

Regardless of what the official record says, we all know how the Democrats actually voted.

Mathew 26:34
"Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, Peter--this very night, before the rooster crows, you will deny three times that you even know me."

3 times indeed! Good job Petercrats :p

[jafar00]

So do you recognize Israels right to exist?

Do you Jaffar?

Yes or NO please....

No.

[Nukeman]

No.yet you want us to recognize the Palistinians!! hmm curious that you feel this way. Why dont your recognize their right to exist??

[logroller]

yet you want us to recognize the Palistinians!! hmm curious that you feel this way. Why dont your recognize their right to exist??
As I understand it, the existence of Zionist state runs counter to the establishment of the caliphate.... Could be wrong though.:dunno:

[jimnyc]

Jerusalem is also claimed by the Palestinians. If you recognise Israel's claim, you must also recognise Palestine's

I recognize Israel, and their right to exist & that Jerusalem is the capital. WHY then must I recognize a claim by Palestine based on that? At least I recognize the right for both places to exist, we just disagree on maps and borders. But you demand that I "must" recognize Palestine's claim, while out the other side of your mouth you are saying that you don't even think Israel has a right to exist. For a minute there I thought you were working on an argument towards equality, silly me.

[jimnyc]

As I understand it, the existence of Zionist state runs counter to the establishment of the caliphate.... Could be wrong though.:dunno:

Maybe that's where the all powerful 12th Imam will come back to and Muslims are afraid he may choose to find peace instead of world domination?

[logroller]

I recognize Israel, and their right to exist & that Jerusalem is the capital. WHY then must I recognize a claim by Palestine based on that? At least I recognize the right for both places to exist, we just disagree on maps and borders. But you demand that I "must" recognize Palestine's claim, while out the other side of your mouth you are saying that you don't even think Israel has a right to exist. For a minute there I thought you were working on an argument towards equality, silly me.

As I said earlier, debating the recognized capital of a country with someone who doesn't recognize the legitimacy of the country is unproductive. It's like an intellectual dry-hump...at least with intellectual masturbation you have reasonable expectation of completion.

If the PLO is governing the area, they can make it their capital; if the Israelis govern it, then they can-- I'd recognize either, but not both. What I think is more important to recognize though, is that Jerusalem is a Holy Place important to world heritage; whomever is governing the area does not change that and should not change that it be open to all walks of faith for peaceable assembly.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

As I said earlier, debating the recognized capital of a country with someone who doesn't recognize the legitimacy of the country is unproductive. It's like an intellectual dry-hump...at least with intellectual masturbation you have reasonable expectation of completion.

If the PLO is governing the area, they can make it their capital; if the Israelis govern it, then they can-- I'd recognize either, but not both. What I think is more important to recognize though, is that Jerusalem is a Holy Place important to world heritage; whomever is governing the area does not change that and should not change that it be open to all walks of faith for peaceable assembly.

"peaceable assembly", nice ring to it. Now how does one get crazy murdering vengeful vermin like those allied against Israel and seeking its total destruction to take part in that fantasy instead of murdering innocent people for propaganda purposes? Ring that bell and I'll come along with you Log.. I mean if you stay alive long enough after you start attempting that to see the next month!-Tyr

[Voted4Reagan]

No.

Yes you do....you announced that Tel Aviv is the Capital.... therefore you Admit that Israel exists...

If you didnt acknowledge it's existence you would completely ignore them and disregard everything about them and pay them no attention...

But to Attack them, mention them and continually berate them shows that indirectly you admit the state DOES EXIST...

[jafar00]

yet you want us to recognize the Palistinians!! hmm curious that you feel this way. Why dont your recognize their right to exist??

No apartheid state should have a right to exist.


Yes you do....you announced that Tel Aviv is the Capital.... therefore you Admit that Israel exists...

If you didnt acknowledge it's existence you would completely ignore them and disregard everything about them and pay them no attention...

But to Attack them, mention them and continually berate them shows that indirectly you admit the state DOES EXIST...

I admit they exist but I don't accept that they exist. My opinion is that they should give back the homes they stole when the zionist state was created and go back to Europe where they came from.

[Voted4Reagan]

No apartheid state should have a right to exist.



I admit they exist but I don't accept that they exist. My opinion is that they should give back the homes they stole when the zionist state was created and go back to Europe where they came from.

Have you called for Muslim Turkey to giveback the land stolen from the ARMENIANS?

Clean your own house before you try to clean someone else s .

[jimnyc]

I admit they exist but I don't accept that they exist. My opinion is that they should give back the homes they stole when the zionist state was created and go back to Europe where they came from.

Live and deal with the anger. It's never going to happen. And it irritates the crap out of so many angry muslims that this little country in the midst of all the hostile countries, still exists, and flourishes, while things turn to crap around them. Some day many people will need to come to terms with the way it is. OR perhaps try another war with them, and lose again. I imagine it would be an unprovoked war though, as I don't see Israel running around whining.

[Voted4Reagan]

Live and deal with the anger. It's never going to happen. And it irritates the crap out of so many angry muslims that this little country in the midst of all the hostile countries, still exists, and flourishes, while things turn to crap around them. Some day many people will need to come to terms with the way it is. OR perhaps try another war with them, and lose again. I imagine it would be an unprovoked war though, as I don't see Israel running around whining.

If the Arabs had accepted Ben Gurions Offer in 1947.... They'd all be prospering.

[Dilloduck]

They're prospering now. The world sends them money to not fight each other and also weapons just in case. It's a neat arrangement they have.

[Voted4Reagan]

They're prospering now. The world sends them money to not fight each other and also weapons just in case. It's a neat arrangement they have.

What they have today is the equivalent of WELFARE.....

such a proud people

[aboutime]

Have you called for Muslim Turkey to giveback the land stolen from the ARMENIANS?

Clean your own house before you try to clean someone else s .


jafar is nothing but a false prophet who extolls hatred equally from the deepest recesses of his Empty Brain, and Heart. jafar is nothing but a WANNABE Aljazzera spokesman who fears losing his own head if he dares to speak the truth about a nation like Israel who has tried to create Peace within an area known as somewhat of a DRY Cesspool of mutual hatred.
Prove me wrong jafar.

[Dilloduck]

What they have today is the equivalent of WELFARE.....

such a proud people

You would think the Israelis would be above that.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

They're prospering now. The world sends them money to not fight each other and also weapons just in case. It's a neat arrangement they have.

The fact that you think it "a neat arrangement" speaks volumes about you. I am sure that the "weapons just in case" does as well!-Tyr

[abso]

Yes you do....you announced that Tel Aviv is the Capital.... therefore you Admit that Israel exists...

If you didnt acknowledge it's existence you would completely ignore them and disregard everything about them and pay them no attention...

But to Attack them, mention them and continually berate them shows that indirectly you admit the state DOES EXIST...

what is this, are we in a new childish show here !!!, who said anything about denying that they exist, jafar only denied their right to exist, not their existence itself, he is not living in a fairy tail, please grow up.

[abso]

Have you called for Muslim Turkey to giveback the land stolen from the ARMENIANS?

Clean your own house before you try to clean someone else s .

same principle applies to you.

[aboutime]

same principle applies to you.


abso. You and jafar sound like you are either related, or both of you share the same closet. Which door would you choose?

[NightTrain]

... jafar only denied their right to exist ....

Oh, is that all he did? Just that?

This is why you people are animals.

[NightTrain]

No apartheid state should have a right to exist.



I admit they exist but I don't accept that they exist. My opinion is that they should give back the homes they stole when the zionist state was created and go back to Europe where they came from.


Here's a newsflash, slick. The Jews have been there longer than you have. That's why that Nation is located exactly where it is.

Well, I should amend that... the original state was where it should be.

But then, arab countries around it conspired to "Wipe it off the face of the earth" and ended up losing territory when Israel beat the goat piss out of them simultaneously in spectacular fashion.

You arabs did that a few times, and now Israel is a lot bigger than it originally was.

One of the consequences of you arabs getting your asses kicked, is that the territory that Israel received in return for peace from the offending country, is a lot of arabs living there that suddenly were on land owned by the Jews. They came to be called 'Palestinians', for lack of a better word. Egyptian Losers or Syrian Losers would have been more descriptive, but that didn't stick.

There has never been a State of Palestine, that was a word made up to describe the displaced people on the losing end of the war resulting in lost territory.

Stop your whining about 'Palestinians'... you show your ignorance as much as Abso has.

We know the truth.

[Dilloduck]

Here's a newsflash, slick. The Jews have been there longer than you have. That's why that Nation is located exactly where it is.

Well, I should amend that... the original state was where it should be.

But then, arab countries around it conspired to "Wipe it off the face of the earth" and ended up losing territory when Israel beat the goat piss out of them simultaneously in spectacular fashion.

You arabs did that a few times, and now Israel is a lot bigger than it originally was.

One of the consequences of you arabs getting your asses kicked, is that the territory that Israel received in return for peace from the offending country, is a lot of arabs living there that suddenly were on land owned by the Jews. They came to be called 'Palestinians', for lack of a better word. Egyptian Losers or Syrian Losers would have been more descriptive, but that didn't stick.

There has never been a State of Palestine, that was a word made up to describe the displaced people on the losing end of the war resulting in lost territory.

Stop your whining about 'Palestinians'... you show your ignorance as much as Abso has.

We know the truth.

Correction----the state is there because God chose it to be there for the Hebrews.

[abso]

what is really funny that is american find the US loyalty towards Israel is one of the most important things that must be shown by a presidential candidate to be elected :laugh:

i am not sure if this is the american presidential elections or the Israeli one, i wonder when will you Americans see a president who is really more interested in the welfare of the american people more than gaining money and support from AIPAC and Jewish\Zionist lobbies in USA, as always it seems that pleasing AIPAC is the first step to be an American president.

[Dilloduck]

I don't find it funny. I find it disgusting watching American candidates kow towing for money and votes via lobbiest representing another country. Any country.

[NightTrain]

Correction----the state is there because God chose it to be there for the Hebrews.


You are correct, however:

Since I was addressing a muslim, I have to reference proven scientific means rather than Biblical. The Jews have been there longer in proven archaeological finds.

I'm sure you understand.

Thanks for the pointer.

[Dilloduck]

You are correct, however:

Since I was addressing a muslim, I have to reference proven scientific means rather than Biblical. The Jews have been there longer in proven archaeological finds.

I'm sure you understand.

Thanks for the pointer.

The Sioux were here long before the Europeans started heading this way too. Does that mean it is their land ?

[NightTrain]

what is really funny that is american find the US loyalty towards Israel is one of the most important things that must be shown by a presidential candidate to be elected :laugh:

That's not true. It's a big factor, but not everything. No one wants to see Israel get railroaded. We need that shining light in a sea of darkness. So do you - if Israel wasn't there you'd have killed each other off years ago.


i am not sure if this is the american presidential elections or the Israeli one, i wonder when will you Americans see a president who is really more interested in the welfare of the american people more than gaining money and support from AIPAC and Jewish\Zionist lobbies in USA, as always it seems that pleasing AIPAC is the first step to be an American president.

I've been a lifelong Republican and I just had to look up what AIPAC stands for. You zany arabs seem to have this strange belief that Jews control everything. They don't. They are a small part of our overall makeup of Americans.


Get this through your turban: If you weird mofo's blow our shit up, we will rain down destruction upon you. If you do it to Israel, we will help them blow your shit up. +++


You can't win.

Stop your stupid ihadJ- shit and be peaceful.

Otherwise we'll rain down hellfire and ultimately, those are Nukes.

Yes, Nukes.

I was surprised that we didn't Nuke you when you muslim fuckers perpetrated 9-11. Bush didn't push the BUTTON. I would have. And I am an American that has been here since 1776, or my family has, when this Country was BORN.

I would have tactical nuked Afghansistan, we'd have gotten Bin Laden with about 10,000 more of you savages, and then you muslims would have all said to each other, "Don't fuck with America".

Yeah, Bin Laden was caught, and we executed his cowardly ass as he tried to hide behind one of his wives.

Pretty typical for an arab male, if we look at the kill screen.

You arabs can't fight; that's been demonstrated time and time again by Israel and by the USA.


Stop the foolishness. You can't win. You are 4th century fighting an F-22.

[Thunderknuckles]

what is really funny that is american find the US loyalty towards Israel is one of the most important things that must be shown by a presidential candidate to be elected :laugh:

i am not sure if this is the american presidential elections or the Israeli one, i wonder when will you Americans see a president who is really more interested in the welfare of the american people more than gaining money and support from AIPAC and Jewish\Zionist lobbies in USA, as always it seems that pleasing AIPAC is the first step to be an American president.
Abso, the answer is right in front of you but you cannot see the issue from the other side?
You should know why we, as a Christian nation, look towards the Jewish people and the Holy Land just as I know why Muslims look to the same Holy Land.

[Voted4Reagan]

same principle applies to you.

We dont currently occupy foreign countries for the purpose of Annexation...

Although we dont have to go back too far to see it done in Muslim Countries...

Iraq/Kuwait... Turkey/Armenia.... hell... The Kurdistan Occupation...

We can keep going on here......

What do I need to do ABSO? My country hasnt committed ethnic Cleansing or Genocide...

I cant say the same for the Muslim world...

[abso]

We dont currently occupy foreign countries for the purpose of Annexation...

Although we dont have to go back too far to see it done in Muslim Countries...

Iraq/Kuwait... Turkey/Armenia.... hell... The Kurdistan Occupation...

We can keep going on here......

What do I need to do ABSO? My country hasnt committed ethnic Cleansing or Genocide...

I cant say the same for the Muslim world...

currently doesn't mean you didn't do it before.

so killing more than 100 thousands innocent civilians with 2 nukes isn't qualified to be a genocide ???

and killing about 72,000 innocent Vietnam civilians in the Rolling Thunder Operation was just charity ?

and according to the book "The Death of others", about 6~7 million deaths resulted from american wars in Korea, Vietnam and Iraq alone, most of them were civilians.


From the Book "The Death of others"

Americans are greatly concerned about the number of our troops killed in battle--100,000 dead in World War I; 300,000 in World War II; 33,000 in the Korean War; 58,000 in Vietnam; 4,500 in Iraq; over 1,000 in Afghanistan--and rightly so. But why are we so indifferent, often oblivious, to the far greater number of casualties suffered by those we fight and those we fight for?

This is the compelling, largely unasked question John Tirman answers in The Deaths of Others. Between six and seven million people died in Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq alone, the majority of them civilians. And yet Americans devote little attention to these deaths. Other countries, however, do pay attention, and Tirman argues that if we want to understand why there is so much anti-Americanism around the world, the first place to look is how we conduct war. We understandably strive to protect our own troops, but our rules of engagement with the enemy are another matter. From atomic weapons and carpet bombing in World War II to napalm and daisy cutters in Vietnam and beyond, we have used our weapons intentionally to kill large numbers of civilians and terrorize our adversaries into surrender. Americans, however, are mostly ignorant of these facts, believing that American wars are essentially just, necessary, and "good." Tirman investigates the history of casualties caused by American forces in order to explain why America remains so unpopular and why US armed forces operate the way they do.

Trenchant and passionate, The Deaths of Others forces readers to consider the tragic consequences of American military action not just for Americans, but especially for those we fight.

http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/Politics/AmericanPolitics/ForeignDefensePolicy/?view=usa&ci=9780195381214


and according to an article in the washington post "Why do we ignore the civilians killed in American wars?"



As the United States officially ended the war in Iraq last month, President Obama spoke eloquently at Fort Bragg, N.C., lauding troops for “your patriotism, your commitment to fulfill your mission, your abiding commitment to one another,” and offering words of grief for the nearly 4,500 members of the U.S. armed forces who died in Iraq. He did not, however, mention the sacrifices of the Iraqi people.

The wars in Korea and Indochina were extremely deadly. While estimates of Korean War deaths are mainly guesswork, the three-year conflict is widely believed to have taken 3 million lives, about half of them civilians. The sizable civilian toll was partly due to the fact that the country’s population is among the world’s densest and the war’s front lines were often moving.

The war in Vietnam and the spillover conflicts in Laos and Cambodia were even more lethal. These numbers are also hard to pin down, although by several scholarly estimates, Vietnamese military and civilian deaths ranged from 1.5 million to 3.8 million, with the U.S.-led campaign in Cambodia resulting in 600,000 to 800,000 deaths, and Laotian war mortality estimated at about 1 million.

Despite the fact that contemporary weapons are vastly more precise, Iraq war casualties, which are also hard to quantify, have reached several hundred thousand. In mid-2006, two household surveys — the most scientific means of calculating — found 400,000 to 650,000 deaths, and there has been a lot of killing since then. (The oft-cited Iraq Body Count Web site mainly uses news accounts, which miss much of the violence.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-do-we-ignore-the-civilians-killed-in-american-wars/2011/12/05/gIQALCO4eP_story.html


yes, your country doesn't do what Muslim does, it just multiply it by 100 or 1000 then do it better.

you really need to review what your country really did before talking like that.

[abso]

I don't find it funny. I find it disgusting watching American candidates kow towing for money and votes via lobbiest representing another country. Any country.

what happens now is the exact reason of why George Washington said this i his farewell address:



In the execution of such a plan, nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred or a habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable, when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. Hence, frequent collisions, obstinate, envenomed, and bloody contests. The nation, prompted by ill-will and resentment, sometimes impels to war the government, contrary to the best calculations of policy. The government sometimes participates in the national propensity, and adopts through passion what reason would reject; at other times it makes the animosity of the nation subservient to projects of hostility instigated by pride, ambition, and other sinister and pernicious motives. The peace often, sometimes perhaps the liberty, of nations, has been the victim.

So likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld. And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation), facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation.

As avenues to foreign influence in innumerable ways, such attachments are particularly alarming to the truly enlightened and independent patriot. How many opportunities do they afford to tamper with domestic factions, to practice the arts of seduction, to mislead public opinion, to influence or awe the public councils. Such an attachment of a small or weak towards a great and powerful nation dooms the former to be the satellite of the latter.


i am sorry for saying that it's funny, but you have to admit that it's kind of funny for a president to be elected through proving his loyalty to another nation, all presidential candidates spend more time proving their loyalty to Israel and AIPAC more than they spend proving their loyalty to american people interests, and after that some people tell me that Zionists doesn't really control your country. :laugh:

[red states rule]

currently doesn't mean you didn't do it before.

so killing more than 100 thousands innocent civilians with 2 nukes isn't qualified to be a genocide ???

and killing about 72,000 innocent Vietnam civilians in the Rolling Thunder Operation was just charity ?

and according to the book "The Death of others", about 6~7 million deaths resulted from american wars in Korea, Vietnam and Iraq alone, most of them were civilians.





OK Bozo you have shown once again you have little knowledge of America and history.

By using the atomic bomb America ENDED a world war and saved over ONE MILLION lives by preventing an invasion of Japan. Japan was beaten but refused to surrender and continued the war

You are so blinded by your hate for America (and Jews) you also refuse to admit while Japan started the war with the US - we ended it

Japan could have gave up after the first atomic bomb was used but refused.

Amercia has liberated more countries and the citizens of those countries than any other natio0n on Earth

Even idiots like you would not hesitate to call Amercia for help if your sorry ass was in trouble and needed the backup of a super power

[jimnyc]

That's not true. It's a big factor, but not everything. No one wants to see Israel get railroaded. We need that shining light in a sea of darkness. So do you - if Israel wasn't there you'd have killed each other off years ago.

I've been a lifelong Republican and I just had to look up what AIPAC stands for. You zany arabs seem to have this strange belief that Jews control everything. They don't. They are a small part of our overall makeup of Americans.

Get this through your turban: If you weird mofo's blow our shit up, we will rain down destruction upon you. If you do it to Israel, we will help them blow your shit up. +++

You can't win.

Stop your stupid ihadJ- shit and be peaceful.

Otherwise we'll rain down hellfire and ultimately, those are Nukes.

Yes, Nukes.

I was surprised that we didn't Nuke you when you muslim fuckers perpetrated 9-11. Bush didn't push the BUTTON. I would have. And I am an American that has been here since 1776, or my family has, when this Country was BORN.

I would have tactical nuked Afghansistan, we'd have gotten Bin Laden with about 10,000 more of you savages, and then you muslims would have all said to each other, "Don't fuck with America".

Yeah, Bin Laden was caught, and we executed his cowardly ass as he tried to hide behind one of his wives.

Pretty typical for an arab male, if we look at the kill screen.

You arabs can't fight; that's been demonstrated time and time again by Israel and by the USA.

Stop the foolishness. You can't win. You are 4th century fighting an F-22.

Wells said, NT!! Sounds like the NT of old. You'll now be met with shit like "Never happened!" or told that you're a delusional zionist supporter, bigot and a bunch of other shit to deflect away from the truth. But it doesn't change the truth at least.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

That's not true. It's a big factor, but not everything. No one wants to see Israel get railroaded. We need that shining light in a sea of darkness. So do you - if Israel wasn't there you'd have killed each other off years ago.



I've been a lifelong Republican and I just had to look up what AIPAC stands for. You zany arabs seem to have this strange belief that Jews control everything. They don't. They are a small part of our overall makeup of Americans.


Get this through your turban: If you weird mofo's blow our shit up, we will rain down destruction upon you. If you do it to Israel, we will help them blow your shit up. +++


You can't win.

Stop your stupid ihadJ- shit and be peaceful.

Otherwise we'll rain down hellfire and ultimately, those are Nukes.

Yes, Nukes.

I was surprised that we didn't Nuke you when you muslim fuckers perpetrated 9-11. Bush didn't push the BUTTON. I would have. And I am an American that has been here since 1776, or my family has, when this Country was BORN.

I would have tactical nuked Afghansistan, we'd have gotten Bin Laden with about 10,000 more of you savages, and then you muslims would have all said to each other, "Don't fuck with America".

Yeah, Bin Laden was caught, and we executed his cowardly ass as he tried to hide behind one of his wives.

Pretty typical for an arab male, if we look at the kill screen.

You arabs can't fight; that's been demonstrated time and time again by Israel and by the USA.


Stop the foolishness. You can't win. You are 4th century fighting an F-22.

Bravo.-:beer:

[Dilloduck]

With a little help they kicked Russia's ass

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

With a little help they kicked Russia's ass

That help came from us! Big difference when it would be us that they fight. Not shock that you think we would lose since you apparently think muslims are Supermen . As you have already stated here that we can not win..
Which leads me to ask which side do you truly support because your posts here point out that you have no faith in our abilities and right to protect ourselves? -Tyr

[Dilloduck]

That help came from us! Big difference when it would be us that they fight. Not shock that you think we would lose since you apparently think muslims are Supermen . As you have already stated here that we can not win..
Which leads me to ask which side do you truly support because your posts here point out that you have no faith in our abilities and right to protect ourselves? -Tyr

How long have the Taliban and friends held out against all powerful America ?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

How long have the Taliban and friends held out against all powerful America ?

cheerleading again? not surprised..
To answer your question, they havent experienced an all powerful America because our military has been held back by it civilian leadership -CIC- LETTING POLITICS DICTATE MILTARY TACTICS. THAT IS A MAJOR WEAKNESS AND FOLLY well known to most that have knowledge of such things. Not shocked at all that you are ignorant of that!
Are you a Democrat?-Tyr

[Dilloduck]

cheerleading again? not surprised..
To answer your question, they havent experienced an all powerful America because our military has been held back by it civilian leadership -CIC- LETTING POLITICS DICTATE MILTARY TACTICS. THAT IS A MAJOR WEAKNESS AND FOLLY well known to most that have knowledge of such things. Not shocked at all that you are ignorant of that!
Are you a Democrat?-Tyr

Longest war America has ever been in. I wouldn't brush them aside so easily. If I were fighting a war I'd take advantage of every weakness that the enemy had. So far they are doing a good job of it.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Longest war America has ever been in. I wouldn't brush them aside so easily. If I were fighting a war I'd take advantage of every weakness that the enemy had. So far they are doing a good job of it.
noted--cheerleading again and declined to answer if Democrat or not.. Why not answer?-Tyr

[Dilloduck]

noted--cheerleading again and declined to answer if Democrat or not.. Why not answer?-Tyr

truth not cheerleading

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

truth not cheerleading

Are you a democrat?

[aboutime]

Are you a democrat?


Tyr. I have found from many years of communicating with many different people from all walks of life, and political parties. How those who have something to hide, or who are somewhat ashamed to admit how they honestly feel. Often pretend to be something they are not.
If someone is so protective, and concerned about disclosing their political leanings as either an 'R' or a 'D'.

That's their problem. It shows little confidence, or trust in themselves before they finally decide to be principled, and just answer the simple question...Honestly.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Tyr. I have found from many years of communicating with many different people from all walks of life, and political parties. How those who have something to hide, or who are somewhat ashamed to admit how they honestly feel. Often pretend to be something they are not.
If someone is so protective, and concerned about disclosing their political leanings as either an 'R' or a 'D'.

That's their problem. It shows little confidence, or trust in themselves before they finally decide to be principled, and just answer the simple question...Honestly.

For me his refusing to answer the question pretty much says it all and I know why he refuses. I've been asked many times what party I am a member of on political forums and I answer without reservation that I am conservative Republican. By doing so I could never try to slip in under the radar pretending to be a dem and wage a campaign to downgrade dedicated members with clever retorts to posts that they make . Republicans generally do not use that tactic but dem/libs do and I've seen it often. Now we have this very divisive election and we see more of it from those that have decided to infiltrate , pretend to be one thing while they cleverly push another agenda.-Tyr

[aboutime]

For me his refusing to answer the question pretty much says it all and I know why he refuses. I've been asked many times what party I am a member of on political forums and I answer without reservation that I am conservative Republican. By doing so I could never try to slip in under the radar pretending to be a dem and wage a campaign to downgrade dedicated members with clever retorts to posts that they make . Republicans generally do not use that tactic but dem/libs do and I've seen it often. Now we have this very divisive election and we see more of it from those that have decided to infiltrate , pretend to be one thing while they cleverly push another agenda.-Tyr


I figured it out Tyr. Asking a liberal, democrat an honest, easy to answer question confuses, and frustrates them since they normally have no idea what Honesty, and Truthfulness actually means...if they have never practiced it.

So. I guess the answer to your simple question will just remain hidden behind the Deceit that Obama preaches, and repeats so often. Lies, hidden behind lies, are still Lies.

[abso]

OK Bozo you have shown once again you have little knowledge of America and history.

By using the atomic bomb America ENDED a world war and saved over ONE MILLION lives by preventing an invasion of Japan. Japan was beaten but refused to surrender and continued the war

You are so blinded by your hate for America (and Jews) you also refuse to admit while Japan started the war with the US - we ended it

Japan could have gave up after the first atomic bomb was used but refused.

Amercia has liberated more countries and the citizens of those countries than any other natio0n on Earth

Even idiots like you would not hesitate to call Amercia for help if your sorry ass was in trouble and needed the backup of a super power

this arrogance is the exact reason of why some people hate america, you think you liberate people while you kill millions, who gave you the right to decide who lives and who dies !!!!

it seems that you are the ignorant one, as japan was ready to surrender on certain conditions, so the second bombing never really had any reason, the US government just wanted japan to surrender without any condition to achieve the ultimate victory, the US never cared about the thousands of civilians that never chose to be a part of the conflict, they just chose to save american soldiers lives at the cost of thousands of innocent Japanese, so never gave me your stupid ignorant lecture about the reasons of war, as US army has always been a sadistic army that never cared for the lives of innocent, all your army cared about was the lives of american soldiers, and was always prepared to kill more than a thousand innocent civilian just to save the live of one american solider, US army never fought with honor as far as i know.

more than 6 million innocent lives was lost due to your army arrogance and you think that your country has liberated nations !!!, your country has destroyed nations not liberated them.

[Gaffer]

this arrogance is the exact reason of why some people hate america, you think you liberate people while you kill millions, who gave you the right to decide who lives and who dies !!!!

it seems that you are the ignorant one, as japan was ready to surrender on certain conditions, so the second bombing never really had any reason, the US government just wanted japan to surrender without any condition to achieve the ultimate victory, the US never cared about the thousands of civilians that never chose to be a part of the conflict, they just chose to save american soldiers lives at the cost of thousands of innocent Japanese, so never gave me your stupid ignorant lecture about the reasons of war, as US army has always been a sadistic army that never cared for the lives of innocent, all your army cared about was the lives of american soldiers, and was always prepared to kill more than a thousand innocent civilian just to save the live of one american solider, US army never fought with honor as far as i know.

more than 6 million innocent lives was lost due to your army arrogance and you think that your country has liberated nations !!!, your country has destroyed nations not liberated them.

That is an insulting post. But then in this country you have a right to make such posts. Even though everything you posted is totally wrong. I'm a combat veteran myself, and you have no idea what your talking about.

You love to bring up Japan. How ironic. The Japanese religion of the time was emperor worship. If they died fighting for the emperor they went straight to heaven. They became martyrs. Suicide for the emperor was highly regarded and a free ticket to heaven. Sound familiar? Replace emperor with allah and you get the picture.

We've been over the history of WW2 before, apparently you didn't bother to read what was posted. I don't know where you get your history, but it's totally inaccurate.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

That is an insulting post. But then in this country you have a right to make such posts. Even though everything you posted is totally wrong. I'm a combat veteran myself, and you have no idea what your talking about.

You love to bring up Japan. How ironic. The Japanese religion of the time was emperor worship. If they died fighting for the emperor they went straight to heaven. They became martyrs. Suicide for the emperor was highly regarded and a free ticket to heaven. Sound familiar? Replace emperor with allah and you get the picture.

We've been over the history of WW2 before, apparently you didn't bother to read what was posted. I don't know where you get your history, but it's totally inaccurate.

Well stated. His history is what the Koran says. After that all other infidel literature and ideals are just trash in his religious doctrine. How do I know this? He has admitted that he is a muslim thats how. Gaffer you nailed him on the martyrs and how similiar dying for an Emperor god and dying for Allah is. Abso gets that to and thats why he defends the Japs, also they were totally ruthles everywhere they invaded , outright murdering many millions of civilians in China alone! Sound familiar? Islam's armies that spread its insanity did the same ! -Tyr

[aboutime]

this arrogance is the exact reason of why some people hate america, you think you liberate people while you kill millions, who gave you the right to decide who lives and who dies !!!!

it seems that you are the ignorant one, as japan was ready to surrender on certain conditions, so the second bombing never really had any reason, the US government just wanted japan to surrender without any condition to achieve the ultimate victory, the US never cared about the thousands of civilians that never chose to be a part of the conflict, they just chose to save american soldiers lives at the cost of thousands of innocent Japanese, so never gave me your stupid ignorant lecture about the reasons of war, as US army has always been a sadistic army that never cared for the lives of innocent, all your army cared about was the lives of american soldiers, and was always prepared to kill more than a thousand innocent civilian just to save the live of one american solider, US army never fought with honor as far as i know.

more than 6 million innocent lives was lost due to your army arrogance and you think that your country has liberated nations !!!, your country has destroyed nations not liberated them.
abso. You could have saved all of us lots of time, and just said. YOU HATE AMERICA, AND AMERICANS, and, like Obama. You blame America, and Americans for all of the wrongs in the world.

But I thank you for whatever you said. And just forget about all of the Good America has done for the people of the world who are living, and free because WE NEVER SAY NO to anyone who needs help. Anywhere in the World.

So. Next time YOU personally face some crisis in your life from nature, or some crazy person tries to kill you, or your familiy. Remember how THANKLESS you really are. Dig yourself a grave, and roll into it.

[Voted4Reagan]

this arrogance is the exact reason of why some people hate america, you think you liberate people while you kill millions, who gave you the right to decide who lives and who dies !!!!

it seems that you are the ignorant one, as japan was ready to surrender on certain conditions, so the second bombing never really had any reason, the US government just wanted japan to surrender without any condition to achieve the ultimate victory, the US never cared about the thousands of civilians that never chose to be a part of the conflict, they just chose to save american soldiers lives at the cost of thousands of innocent Japanese, so never gave me your stupid ignorant lecture about the reasons of war, as US army has always been a sadistic army that never cared for the lives of innocent, all your army cared about was the lives of american soldiers, and was always prepared to kill more than a thousand innocent civilian just to save the live of one american solider, US army never fought with honor as far as i know.

more than 6 million innocent lives was lost due to your army arrogance and you think that your country has liberated nations !!!, your country has destroyed nations not liberated them.

We were called....Saudi Arabia called and we answered... We surely saved Riyadh, Mecca and Medina from falling into Iraqi hands during the Gulf War..

Yet Abso ignores this ...... just as he does not acknowledge that most deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan are Muslims killing other Muslims... Collateral Battle Damage is a small percentage...

Show us a Link that supports your Numbers ABSO...

I say youre LYING

[red states rule]

this arrogance is the exact reason of why some people hate america, you think you liberate people while you kill millions, who gave you the right to decide who lives and who dies !!!!

it seems that you are the ignorant one, as japan was ready to surrender on certain conditions, so the second bombing never really had any reason, the US government just wanted japan to surrender without any condition to achieve the ultimate victory, the US never cared about the thousands of civilians that never chose to be a part of the conflict, they just chose to save american soldiers lives at the cost of thousands of innocent Japanese, so never gave me your stupid ignorant lecture about the reasons of war, as US army has always been a sadistic army that never cared for the lives of innocent, all your army cared about was the lives of american soldiers, and was always prepared to kill more than a thousand innocent civilian just to save the live of one american solider, US army never fought with honor as far as i know.

more than 6 million innocent lives was lost due to your army arrogance and you think that your country has liberated nations !!!, your country has destroyed nations not liberated them.


Well Aobozo, I only answered your questions and gave you my opinion. If you are offended, go leaving, if you are offended; I do not give a shit

As others have said, we have debated the use of the bom,b in WW!! and you simply ingore the facts out of pure hate. Typical of your ilk

Do you really think I care what a hate filled camel breath laced asshole like you thinks of me and America? I have no doubt if you were in trouble you would be the first to run like hell and BEG Amercia for help. I only hope when you are in dire trouble and in need of a superpower to save your sorry ass you call area code 202 and someone laughs in your ear and hangs up

Now please go clean up after your camel and kiss my red white and blue ass


http://www.bibleprobe.com/jihad_this.jpg

[red states rule]

abso. You could have saved all of us lots of time, and just said. YOU HATE AMERICA, AND AMERICANS, and, like Obama. You blame America, and Americans for all of the wrongs in the world.

But I thank you for whatever you said. And just forget about all of the Good America has done for the people of the world who are living, and free because WE NEVER SAY NO to anyone who needs help. Anywhere in the World.

So. Next time YOU personally face some crisis in your life from nature, or some crazy person tries to kill you, or your familiy. Remember how THANKLESS you really are. Dig yourself a grave, and roll into it.


In honor of Abozo

http://www.bibleprobe.com/osama-beard.jpg

[abso]

That is an insulting post. But then in this country you have a right to make such posts. Even though everything you posted is totally wrong. I'm a combat veteran myself, and you have no idea what your talking about.

You love to bring up Japan. How ironic. The Japanese religion of the time was emperor worship. If they died fighting for the emperor they went straight to heaven. They became martyrs. Suicide for the emperor was highly regarded and a free ticket to heaven. Sound familiar? Replace emperor with allah and you get the picture.

We've been over the history of WW2 before, apparently you didn't bother to read what was posted. I don't know where you get your history, but it's totally inaccurate.

apparently you think that US army has the right to decide that 100 thousand innocent civilians should die to save others, but the way i see it, no one has the right to decide who lives or who dies, and the US army killed civilians to save soldiers.

and we all have seen what combat veteran like yourself have done in Iraq, killing innocents and raping women while killing their families, maybe you are a respectable solider and maybe you are not, but that doesn't make everyone like you, and you can only control what you do.

[abso]

Well Aobozo, I only answered your questions and gave you my opinion. If you are offended, go leaving, if you are offended; I do not give a shit

As others have said, we have debated the use of the bom,b in WW!! and you simply ingore the facts out of pure hate. Typical of your ilk

Do you really think I care what a hate filled camel breath laced asshole like you thinks of me and America? I have no doubt if you were in trouble you would be the first to run like hell and BEG Amercia for help. I only hope when you are in dire trouble and in need of a superpower to save your sorry ass you call area code 202 and someone laughs in your ear and hangs up

Now please go clean up after your camel and kiss my red white and blue ass




:laugh:

all i can say, is that i hope you live long enough to see the growth of the Islamic religion around you, you speak about power which you have, and we will speak about religion which we have, but power can never spread, but religion can and will spread throughout the world, preachers have more power than your beloved army and nukes.

and i know that what i just said is the most thing you hate in the world, and finally, my camel will beat your nuke :D

[jimnyc]

apparently you think that US army has the right to decide that 100 thousand innocent civilians should die to save others, but the way i see it, no one has the right to decide who lives or who dies, and the US army killed civilians to save soldiers.

and we all have seen what combat veteran like yourself have done in Iraq, killing innocents and raping women while killing their families, maybe you are a respectable solider and maybe you are not, but that doesn't make everyone like you, and you can only control what you do.

I see you doing a lot of complaining about how foreign countries kill, and why. You say they have no right to determine who lives and who dies.

Why is it you can be so vocal on this issue regarding the USA, but have so much trouble acknowledging murders and terror attacks from Muslims right in your own country? At least remain consistent.

[jimnyc]

:laugh:

all i can say, is that i hope you live long enough to see the growth of the Islamic religion around you, you speak about power which you have, and we will speak about religion which we have, but power can never spread, but religion can and will spread throughout the world, preachers have more power than your beloved army and nukes.

and i know that what i just said is the most thing you hate in the world, and finally, my camel will beat your nuke :D

Islam can grow as much as it likes, but Islam as a whole, or individuals such as preachers and similar, won't make a difference. There's a lot more to power and such than just sheer numbers. 3 billion people acting like and living in stone age type of atmosphere, will still be weaker than an army of a few million who are technologically advanced and live in the modern times. Islamic countries will have to do a LOT more than just kick out babies to ever come close to being considered a "superpower".

[abso]

I see you doing a lot of complaining about how foreign countries kill, and why. You say they have no right to determine who lives and who dies.

Why is it you can be so vocal on this issue regarding the USA, but have so much trouble acknowledging murders and terror attacks from Muslims right in your own country? At least remain consistent.

when have i ever said that terrorists doesn't exist in my country ???, i have already said many times that egypt suffer from radical terrorists, and we fight them, but the difference is that we don't kill thousands of innocents in the process, and we never nuked innocents, and we never dropped bomb shells on innocents homes, or hospitals or schools, but unfortunately you can't say the same about your country.

[abso]

Islam can grow as much as it likes, but Islam as a whole, or individuals such as preachers and similar, won't make a difference. There's a lot more to power and such than just sheer numbers. 3 billion people acting like and living in stone age type of atmosphere, will still be weaker than an army of a few million who are technologically advanced and live in the modern times. Islamic countries will have to do a LOT more than just kick out babies to ever come close to being considered a "superpower".

maybe not soon, but we will eventually have our technology, we was the most advanced civilization on earth for about 6 centuries, but then our civilization crumbled, then came the industrial era, in which your country's time has come, but then it will also crumble, our time will come soon, and then you will say that our civilization isn't about radicalism and terrorism which i hope that one day it will disappear from this world, as i hate it more than you or any one else does.

but don't forget that the western civilization was built on the colonization of other countries in Africa and Asia and stealing its resources, your civilization was built by force, but i hope ours can be built again by peace which i hope that we can achieve soon.

[Dilloduck]

Tyr. I have found from many years of communicating with many different people from all walks of life, and political parties. How those who have something to hide, or who are somewhat ashamed to admit how they honestly feel. Often pretend to be something they are not.
If someone is so protective, and concerned about disclosing their political leanings as either an 'R' or a 'D'.

That's their problem. It shows little confidence, or trust in themselves before they finally decide to be principled, and just answer the simple question...Honestly.

I'm sorry you came to such an inaccurate conclusion about people who refuse succumb to being labeled and pigeon holed. I've never asked anyone what political party they belonged to. I don't talk any different to them based on party membership. It has no bearing on the truth . Sorry Try but you gonna have to converse with me as an individual and take all your political bias and toss it.

[jimnyc]

when have i ever said that terrorists doesn't exist in my country ???, i have already said many times that egypt suffer from radical terrorists, and we fight them, but the difference is that we don't kill thousands of innocents in the process, and we never nuked innocents, and we never dropped bomb shells on innocents homes, or hospitals or schools, but unfortunately you can't say the same about your country.

But I admit the history of our country, our actions, and am willing to discuss why certain actions were taken. Our country has made mistakes, but I don't think Hiroshima or Nagasaki being one of them, but that's not the point. American's will admit everything, some can be discussed and explained, other things are just flat out wrong. Muslims like yourself, deny the majority of the proof presented to you, deny things happen and make laughable excuses. You want to discuss and point fingers at America but never want to face the Islamic issues head on. You can bring up the long past, or current wars, but you still continue to ignore and/or deny things that Islam does in the name of their religion.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

A website with a list that makes any other religion look like saints. Just the attacks in the name of religion from 2001 are deplorable, but also ignored by the majority of Islam, or denied. Coming close to 20,000 attacks since 9/11. I'd be afraid to add up the casualties and amount of deaths totaled. In the past week alone there have been 58 attacks and 220 people dead as a result. Through the recent Ramadan, there were 260 attacks resulting in 1,209 deaths.

These aren't armies making these deaths in one fatal blow. These are Muslims after muslims after muslims after muslims after muslims, all attacking in the name of their religion.

Go ahead and point fingers at the government, and some military lead attacks at their orders. Without discussion and explanations, I will just grant you that this is true. And in comparison, we are talking about Muslim citizens doing the dirty work. And not at the order of the government, and not their military, but just muslim people acting out in the name of religion.

[Voted4Reagan]

Still no link from ABSO to back up all his claims...

yawn.... must have NEVER HAPPENED....

Either BACK IT UP or PACK IT UP ABSO!!

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Sorry Try but you gonna have to converse with me as an individual and take all your political bias and toss it.

OK, as an individual , why do you think we can not win against Islam's goal of destroying us?--Tyr

[Dilloduck]

OK, as an individual , why do you think we can not win against Islam's goal of destroying us?--Tyr

Make a false claim about me first thing in the morning ? :laugh:

[abso]

But I admit the history of our country, our actions, and am willing to discuss why certain actions were taken. Our country has made mistakes, but I don't think Hiroshima or Nagasaki being one of them, but that's not the point. American's will admit everything, some can be discussed and explained, other things are just flat out wrong. Muslims like yourself, deny the majority of the proof presented to you, deny things happen and make laughable excuses. You want to discuss and point fingers at America but never want to face the Islamic issues head on. You can bring up the long past, or current wars, but you still continue to ignore and/or deny things that Islam does in the name of their religion.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

A website with a list that makes any other religion look like saints. Just the attacks in the name of religion from 2001 are deplorable, but also ignored by the majority of Islam, or denied. Coming close to 20,000 attacks since 9/11. I'd be afraid to add up the casualties and amount of deaths totaled. In the past week alone there have been 58 attacks and 220 people dead as a result. Through the recent Ramadan, there were 260 attacks resulting in 1,209 deaths.

These aren't armies making these deaths in one fatal blow. These are Muslims after muslims after muslims after muslims after muslims, all attacking in the name of their religion.

Go ahead and point fingers at the government, and some military lead attacks at their orders. Without discussion and explanations, I will just grant you that this is true. And in comparison, we are talking about Muslim citizens doing the dirty work. And not at the order of the government, and not their military, but just muslim people acting out in the name of religion.

what have i actually denied, please in short points, not long lectures.

and please Jim, just answer this simple question for me:

according to you, who is a true Muslim who abides by the teachings of Islam, a person like me or a radical terrorist who kills Innocents in the name of Islam ?

[jafar00]

Wow. Just wow. You lot have really stooped low with your abuse of Abso who just wants to debate the facts. Yet, Abso has remained calm in the face of some quite frankly atrocious insults.

Grow up people! This is a forum for debate, not the sandpit in kindergarten.

[jimnyc]

what have i actually denied, please in short points, not long lectures.

and please Jim, just answer this simple question for me:

according to you, who is a true Muslim who abides by the teachings of Islam, a person like me or a radical terrorist who kills Innocents in the name of Islam ?

BOTH are Muslims by definition, but one appears to be more intelligent and absolutely peaceful, while another was lead astray and turned into a criminal, and worse. But just because a Muslim did something wrong, you don't get to say he's not a Muslim and wipe him from statistics. He's a bad egg, simple as that. It doesn't mean he and you are the same. It doesn't mean all Muslims are criminals. It doesn't really mean anything connecting the 2. My point is just that one is bad and one is good. But if you want to somehow separate them based on "true". It would sound like the first person is more of a Muslim following traditions and rules more so than the 2nd guy.

[jimnyc]

Wow. Just wow. You lot have really stooped low with your abuse of Abso who just wants to debate the facts. Yet, Abso has remained calm in the face of some quite frankly atrocious insults.

Grow up people! This is a forum for debate, not the sandpit in kindergarten.

Why don't you quote specific posts you're referring to, or name names, because otherwise it sounds like you are painting with just one brush and saying everyone here does that. I am passionate about the subject and have no issue pointing out bad elements within Islam. And for individuals here, I will go as far as to say they deny things, ignore things and other things along those lines - the same I post to you. But that's hardly abuse or "atrocious insults". I say it how it is and speak factually with the passion I mentioned.

[Gaffer]

Abso, please point out what scientific and/or technical advances islam has contibuted to the world in the last 500 years. And a bit of history for you. The Ottoman empire fell at the end of WW1, they sided with the losers. As far as colonialism goes that was the French, English, Germany, Dutch and Portuguese. Spain gave it up after we kicked their ass.

Shall we play cowboys and arabs now? The US doesn't get into colonialism. But if we ever decide to do that you best watch out. Technology wins every time. Ask the Indians. And I'm sure you know very little about the Indian wars and Indian nations in this country. You seem to know very little about world history as it is. If your interested in learning we can start a thread on history and you can get a lot of facts and truth. You have either been filled with a lot of misconceptions or your making things up to sound knowledgeable and getting called on it.

Vietnam was my war. I never had anything to do with iraq or afghan. I did almost go to Israel in 67. We were on stand by to move to the air base in Chu Li when the six day war broke out. We were to join the Israelis fighting the invading arabs. Turned out we weren't needed.

The US military has very stringent laws that must be followed by everyone in the military. Rape and pillage is severely punishable. Same with shooting innocent people. The military goes to great pains to insure innocents don't get harmed, even at the cost of our own guys. Civilians and even enemy soldiers will get Medivaced out of a combat area and the best medical treatment possible. That's more than can be said for anyone this country has ever fought.

You have the internet, educate yourself on real history and facts.

[jafar00]

Why don't you quote specific posts you're referring to, or name names, because otherwise it sounds like you are painting with just one brush and saying everyone here does that. I am passionate about the subject and have no issue pointing out bad elements within Islam. And for individuals here, I will go as far as to say they deny things, ignore things and other things along those lines - the same I post to you. But that's hardly abuse or "atrocious insults". I say it how it is and speak factually with the passion I mentioned.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?36825-Dems-remove-Jerusalem-as-Israel-s-Capital&p=577483#post577483
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?36825-Dems-remove-Jerusalem-as-Israel-s-Capital&p=577510#post577510
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?36825-Dems-remove-Jerusalem-as-Israel-s-Capital&p=577511#post577511

[jimnyc]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?36825-Dems-remove-Jerusalem-as-Israel-s-Capital&p=577483#post577483
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?36825-Dems-remove-Jerusalem-as-Israel-s-Capital&p=577510#post577510
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?36825-Dems-remove-Jerusalem-as-Israel-s-Capital&p=577511#post577511

Well, none of them were from me. And none of them were of a few other members posting. I'm just saying, some people are passionate about how they debate, and others might get personal. We're all human. But you should be a little more specific when launching crap like that as opposed to giving the appearance you are speaking about the entire board.

[red states rule]

apparently you think that US army has the right to decide that 100 thousand innocent civilians should die to save others, but the way i see it, no one has the right to decide who lives or who dies, and the US army killed civilians to save soldiers.

and we all have seen what combat veteran like yourself have done in Iraq, killing innocents and raping women while killing their families, maybe you are a respectable solider and maybe you are not, but that doesn't make everyone like you, and you can only control what you do.

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/imaoter-back600.jpg

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?36825-Dems-remove-Jerusalem-as-Israel-s-Capital&p=577483#post577483
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?36825-Dems-remove-Jerusalem-as-Israel-s-Capital&p=577510#post577510
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?36825-Dems-remove-Jerusalem-as-Israel-s-Capital&p=577511#post577511

Big deal. Aboutime made one comment which was mild IMHO. I have seen him attacked for well over 5 years by at least a dozen posters putting forth much worse than that on a daily basis at another forum and he refused to lodge any formal complaint there against any of them. That is how much he believed in free speech! I went thru some of that there as well, never lodge a single complaint against those that had formed a wolfpack dedicated to destroying conservatives there. Yet you think those examples that you cited are insulting, ha. Very mild stuff like that is to be expected when free speech is allowed! You wouldnt know because free speech is not allowed in Islam. Which is a another reason it is barbaric trash IMHO.-Tyr

[abso]

BOTH are Muslims by definition, but one appears to be more intelligent and absolutely peaceful, while another was lead astray and turned into a criminal, and worse. But just because a Muslim did something wrong, you don't get to say he's not a Muslim and wipe him from statistics. He's a bad egg, simple as that. It doesn't mean he and you are the same. It doesn't mean all Muslims are criminals. It doesn't really mean anything connecting the 2. My point is just that one is bad and one is good. But if you want to somehow separate them based on "true". It would sound like the first person is more of a Muslim following traditions and rules more so than the 2nd guy.

that's the point, "lead astray", it's about how we are raised, i can raise radical (Muslim, Christian, Jew) or i can raise respectful (Muslim, Christian, Jew), its all about who teach us and what we are taught, it's not really the problem of religions, it's the problem of who teach those religions, in Egypt you will find that the way we are taught Islam in entirely different way from the way Islam is taught in Afghanistan, and even if you were taught religion in the right way, you can also do bad things, because Humans are naturally sinners, and everyone do the sin in his own way, some sins only hurt you while other sins hurt others..

[Abbey Marie]

this arrogance is the exact reason of why some people hate america, you think you liberate people while you kill millions, who gave you the right to decide who lives and who dies !!!!

it seems that you are the ignorant one, as japan was ready to surrender on certain conditions, so the second bombing never really had any reason, the US government just wanted japan to surrender without any condition to achieve the ultimate victory, the US never cared about the thousands of civilians that never chose to be a part of the conflict, they just chose to save american soldiers lives at the cost of thousands of innocent Japanese, so never gave me your stupid ignorant lecture about the reasons of war, as US army has always been a sadistic army that never cared for the lives of innocent, all your army cared about was the lives of american soldiers, and was always prepared to kill more than a thousand innocent civilian just to save the live of one american solider, US army never fought with honor as far as i know.

more than 6 million innocent lives was lost due to your army arrogance and you think that your country has liberated nations !!!, your country has destroyed nations not liberated them.

Just like Japan was oh-so-worried about the civilians around Pearl Harbor?

What exactly should a country do after it has been bombed, unprovoked? Send flowers and a thank you card? It seems that your hatred of Amercia is blinding you to reality.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Just like Japan was oh-so-worried about the civilians around Pearl Harbor?

What exactly should a country do after it has been bombed, unprovoked? Send flowers and a thank you card? It seems that your hatred of Amercia is blinding you to reality.

Methinks that the real culprit doing the blinding is abso's religion .....hatred is just a visible symptom when reading his words after he has read the Koran's words..-Tyr

[Kathianne]

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/hstpaper/abomb.html


Primary Resources: Leaflets warning Japanese of Atomic Bomb, 1945

Leaflets dropped on cities in Japan warning civilians about the atomic bomb, dropped c. August 6, 1945



TO THE JAPANESE PEOPLE:
America asks that you take immediate heed of what we say on this leaflet.


We are in possession of the most destructive explosive (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/truman/psources/ps_einstein.html) ever devised by man. A single one of our newly developed atomic bombs is actually the equivalent in explosive power to what 2000 of our giant B-29s can carry on a single mission. This awful fact is one for you to ponder and we solemnly assure you it is grimly accurate (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/truman/psources/ps_memorandum.html).


We have just begun to use this weapon against your homeland. If you still have any doubt, make inquiry as to what happened to Hiroshima when just one atomic bomb fell on that city.


Before using this bomb to destroy every resource of the military by which they are prolonging this useless war, we ask that you now petition the Emperor to end the war. Our president has outlined for you the thirteen consequences of an honorable surrender. We urge that you accept these consequences and begin the work of building a new, better and peace-loving Japan.
You should take steps now to cease military resistance. Otherwise, we shall resolutely employ this bomb and all our other superior weapons to promptly and forcefully end the war.


EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.
ATTENTION JAPANESE PEOPLE. EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.

Because your military leaders have rejected the thirteen part surrender declaration, two momentous events have occurred in the last few days.


The Soviet Union, because of this rejection on the part of the military has notified your Ambassador Sato that it has declared war on your nation. Thus, all powerful countries of the world are now at war with you.


Also, because of your leaders' refusal to accept the surrender declaration that would enable Japan to honorably end this useless war, we have employed our atomic bomb.


A single one of our newly developed atomic bombs is actually the equivalent in explosive power to what 2000 of our giant B-29s could have carried on a single mission. Radio Tokyo has told you that with the first use of this weapon of total destruction, Hiroshima was virtually destroyed.
Before we use this bomb again and again to destroy every resource of the military by which they are prolonging this useless war, petition the emperor now to end the war. Our president has outlined for you the thirteen consequences of an honorable surrender. We urge that you accept these consequences and begin the work of building a new, better, and peace-loving Japan.


Act at once or we shall resolutely employ this bomb and all our other superior weapons to promptly and forcefully end the war.


EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.

[Kathianne]

Using the A-bomb spared American lives, 'in our best interest', a policy we used to follow. Moreover, it saved Japanese lives too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall


Operation Downfall was the codename for the Allied (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allies_of_World_War_II) plan for the invasion of Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Japan) near the end of World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II). The planned operation was abandoned when Japan surrendered (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_of_Japan) after the atomic bombing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki) of Hiroshima (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroshima) and Nagasaki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagasaki,_Nagasaki) and the Soviet Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union)'s declaration of war against Japan. The operation had two parts: Operation Olympic and Operation Coronet. Set to begin in October 1945, Operation Olympic was intended to capture the southern third of the southernmost main Japanese island, Kyūshū (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABsh%C5%AB), with the recently captured (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa) island of Okinawa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_Island) to be used as a staging area. Later, in spring 1946, Operation Coronet was the planned invasion of the Kantō Plain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kant%C5%8D_Plain), near Tokyo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo), on the Japanese island of Honshū (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honsh%C5%AB). Airbases on Kyūshū captured in Operation Olympic would allow land-based air support for Operation Coronet.


Japan's geography (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Japan) made this invasion plan quite obvious to the Japanese as well; they were able to predict the Allied invasion plans accurately and thus adjust their defensive plan, Operation Ketsugō, accordingly. The Japanese planned an all-out defense of Kyūshū, with little left in reserve for any subsequent defense operations. Casualty predictions varied widely but were extremely high for both sides: depending on the degree to which Japanese civilians resisted the invasion, estimates ran into the millions for Allied casualties[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall#cite_note-FOOTNOTEFrank340-0) and several times that number for total Japanese casualties...

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/hstpaper/abomb.html

When is our government going to send that message to the muslim nations that are dedicated to destroying the western world? Maybe give them a sample by way of Mecca and Medina to show 'em that we mean business. For its that kind of message and force that will get their attention and possibly stop their murdering rampage across the globe. Either we at some time take extremely hard measures or we will lose and be destroyed IMHO.
THATS A FACT BECAUSE THEY FORCE IT TO BE SO! -Tyr

[Kathianne]

When is our government going to send that message to the muslim nations that are dedicated to destroying the western world? Maybe give them a sample by way of Mecca and Medina to show 'em that we mean business. For its that kind of message and force that will get their attention and possibly stop their murdering rampage across the globe. Either we at some time take extremely hard measures or we will lose and be destroyed IMHO.
THATS A FACT BECAUSE THEY FORCE IT TO BE SO! -Tyr

I disagree with the premise, it would take more than I've seen since 9/11 to say we should do anything to Mecca and Medina. It's not the holy places, it's those that are terrorists. I do agree with you point in this or another thread, that many that aren't terrorists tacitly support them.

My posts had to do with a response to Abso and WWII.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I disagree with the premise, it would take more than I've seen since 9/11 to say we should do anything to Mecca and Medina. It's not the holy places, it's those that are terrorists. I do agree with you point in this or another thread, that many that aren't terrorists tacitly support them.

My posts had to do with a response to Abso and WWII.

My premise is that the threat if believed to be a possible reality will quite likely get the attention of the leaders of Islam and maybe bring about a drastic change in its course. If it only stopped the tacit support they enjoy it would be worth making the threat. That is far better than the collision course its on when the western world finally has to declare all out war just to survive because then tens of millions will likely die as a result. If we do not take a very hard stand now before they gain much more power we will surely face extremely hard choices later just to survive!--They are savages that only respect brute force! No other type of appeal will work. History has repeatedly shown the truth of that IMHO.-Tyr

[Kathianne]

My premise is that the threat if believed to be a possible reality will quite likely get the attention of the leaders of Islam and maybe bring about a drastic change in its course. If it only stopped the tacit support they enjoy it would be worth making the threat. That is far better than the collision course its on when the western world finally has to declare all out war just to survive because then tens of millions will likely die as a result. If we do not take a very hard stand now before they gain much more power we will surely face extremely hard choices later just to survive!--They are savages that only respect brute force! No other type of appeal will work. History has repeatedly shown the truth of that IMHO.-Tyr

If I get you right, you are saying that a hit on Mecca/Medina would be the equivalent of Hiroshima/Nagasaki? I think you are off base. While the Japanese were willing to fight, it was because of propaganda that they would be raped/tortured, etc. The Islamics do not fear or believe that to be the case. Indeed, they are stunned at how professional the troops are. They are in it to win, bombing Mecca/Medina would only inflame an already torch ready populace, as we agree that many support but aren't terrorists, yet.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

If I get you right, you are saying that a hit on Mecca/Medina would be the equivalent of Hiroshima/Nagasaki? I think you are off base. While the Japanese were willing to fight, it was because of propaganda that they would be raped/tortured, etc. The Islamics do not fear or believe that to be the case. Indeed, they are stunned at how professional the troops are. They are in it to win, bombing Mecca/Medina would only inflame an already torch ready populace, as we agree that many support but aren't terrorists, yet.

Charles Martel , the Hammer, put a great defeat on them that saved Europe. That defeat so demoralised them in their faith that they stopped their world conquest campaign until just recently. Even the --threat-- MAY STOP THEM FOR BOTH CITIES ARE HOLY TO THEM. THEIRT DESTRUCTION WOULD PROVE THAT ALLAH IS NOT TRUE, NOT REAL, NOT A GOD. They do not want to face that possibility. I am more for using the ACTULL THREAT THAN I AM FOR ACTUALLY USING THE BOMBS.-Tyr

[NightTrain]

The Sioux were here long before the Europeans started heading this way too. Does that mean it is their land ?

WTF does the Sioux have to do with Egypt losing land after attacking Israel?

These are two separate matters completely unrelated.

I knew a Dilloduck back in the day that could think clearly, who is this PyschoBabble Wannabe?

If you go any further left, you'll be Gabby's retarded sister.

[NightTrain]

With a little help they kicked Russia's ass

With a great deal of effort they kicked Russia's ass. We made sure they were well armed and trained, reciprocal to what they did for us in Vietnam and Korea.

It was the Cold War, and we reaped the whirlwind over it. Sometimes you have to roll the dice and training those savages ended up biting us. That kind of thing happens.

But don't think they had a chance in hell without our training and technology.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Charles Martel , the Hammer, put a great defeat on them that saved Europe. That defeat so demoralised them in their faith that they stopped their world conquest campaign until just recently. Even the --threat-- MAY STOP THEM FOR BOTH CITIES ARE HOLY TO THEM. THEIRT DESTRUCTION WOULD PROVE THAT ALLAH IS NOT TRUE, NOT REAL, NOT A GOD. They do not want to face that possibility. I am more for using the ACTULL THREAT THAN I AM FOR ACTUALLY USING THE BOMBS.-Tyr

Got this comment from another source . Thought it interesting to consider..-Tyr
http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/40-551.aspx#startofcomments

RE:what would happen if mecca or medina in saudi arabia was nuked 8/21/2004 2:03:47 PM
Wake up call to the blind. Muslims - whether the murdering martyr types seeking virgins in paradise or your friendly Pakistani convenience store clerk down the street - all have one common thread of absolute belief. That Mecca is the center of the universe and the stone in the Kaaba was placed there by Allah. No non-believer can get within 50K of either Mecca of Medina. One of the main motivating factors for Al Queda is that the corrupt House of Saud controls these two holiest of sites of Islam - the full official title of the King of Saudi Arabia is "The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques". I believe that certain aspects of the Cold War strategy of mutual assured destruction be applied to our war on terror - and make no mistake this war, it isn't against rampaging Hindus or Budhists. If we could hold tens of millions of Russian residents of Moskow, Kiev, Stalingrad, or Leningrad (now St. Petersburg) hostage by the treat of nuclear weapons - why not Mecca and Medina? Just the threat might have the effect of marginalizing the radicals within the larger Muslim population. If not, and these crazies ever set off a WMD anywhere in the world, then put a 10MT thermonuclear device on top of the Kaaba in Mecca and Mohhammeds tomb in Medina. If Armageddon is the result, oh well - on one side we still have thousands of nuclear weapons with pin-point accuracy. I would then only have to worry about the Pakistani convenience store clerk down the street - but then again maybe not. I just wonder how many blind and brainwashed Muslims will "see the light" after the Kaaba is gone and Mecca and Medina are craters? And on the otherhand.... if the Kaaba still stands and those Mosques are left unscathed by a nuclear blast..... I'm gonna get a prayer rug and a prayer schedule with bearings facing Mecca from my location real fast. Hey, and if the idea of 4 wives don't go over with my current wife - well saying "I divorce you" three times is a whole lot simpler than lawyers, courts, alimony and custody settlements. Oh, and let's not forget those "perpetual" virgins in heaven. While martyrs get seventy, I'm sure there is a couple handed out for just saying Allah is great and Mohamamed was his messenger, praying five times a day, fasting for one month a year, giving alms, and doing a pilgrimage to Mecca-Medina. Yep, dust off those Minute Men missile silos - new mission in ths war on terror.

[NightTrain]

How long have the Taliban and friends held out against all powerful America ?

They have been relegated to Rodent Status.

We find them flocking to a meeting point for some good old fashioned "Allah Akbar" goodness and suddenly find their Toyotas blowing up, then the Mosque, and then they flee to the fields as that AC-130 continues to unload on them.

I'm sure you find this disconcerting, Dillo, but most of these terrorists are trying to kill your fellow Americans and allies. I'm sure your heart bleeds over the terrorist killings, let's hope that the CIA doesn't get a drone over your house soon.

BTW, can you send me your coordinates?

[NightTrain]

:laugh:

all i can say, is that i hope you live long enough to see the growth of the Islamic religion around you, you speak about power which you have, and we will speak about religion which we have, but power can never spread, but religion can and will spread throughout the world, preachers have more power than your beloved army and nukes.

and i know that what i just said is the most thing you hate in the world, and finally, my camel will beat your nuke :D



In Iran in”1979 when the Ayatollah Khomeini led the Islamic Revolution, there were only about 500 known Muslim converts to Christianity. Today, interviews with two dozen Iranian pastors and church leaders reveals that there are well over 1 million Shia Muslim converts to Christianity.”


Muslims may be gaining numbers mainly because of larger families,
Those 14 year olds are very fertile


but Christians are growing in number because of an actual encounter with the living Saviour who once was dead but now lives. These are exciting times, and in the midst of so much gloom and doom, we need to be aware of such good news stories. God is at work and is doing powerful things in the Muslim world. We need to keep praying, believing and acting to see more of this take place.
http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/05/islam-and-christianity-looking-at-the-numbers/

[NightTrain]

Those 14 year olds are very fertile


http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/04/05/islam-and-christianity-looking-at-the-numbers/


Bah, I had a nice reply set up. Got unexpected company and lost everything. Oh well.

[NightTrain]

what happens now is the exact reason of why George Washington said this i his farewell address:



i am sorry for saying that it's funny, but you have to admit that it's kind of funny for a president to be elected through proving his loyalty to another nation, all presidential candidates spend more time proving their loyalty to Israel and AIPAC more than they spend proving their loyalty to american people interests, and after that some people tell me that Zionists doesn't really control your country. :laugh:



Since you have done great research with American leaders, why can't you adopt this kind of thinking and be the next great leader in your region? Why can't 18th century thinking spread in your region of the world?

Anything would be better than the 4th century you savages all enjoy now.