Lauren Booth: I'm now a Muslim. Why all the shock and horror?

[abso]

Lauren Booth: I'm now a Muslim. Why all the shock and horror?

News that Lauren Booth has converted to Islam provoked a storm of negative comments. Here she explains how it came about – and why it's time to stop patronising Muslim women




http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2010/11/2/1288722047598/Lauren-Booth--006.jpg
Lauren Booth . . .'How hard and callous non-Muslim friends and colleagues began to seem'. Photograph: Sarah Lee for the Guardian

It is five years since my first visit to Palestine. And when I arrived in the region, to work alongside charities in Gaza and the West Bank, I took with me the swagger of condescension that all white middle-class women (secretly or outwardly) hold towards poor Muslim women, women I presumed would be little more than black-robed blobs, silent in my peripheral vision. As a western woman with all my freedoms, I expected to deal professionally with men alone. After all, that's what the Muslim world is all about, right?

This week's screams of faux horror from fellow columnists on hearing of my conversion to Islam (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/islam) prove that this remains the stereotypical view regarding half a billion women currently practising Islam.

On my first trip to Ramallah, and many subsequent visits to Palestine, Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon, I did indeed deal with men in power. And, dear reader, one or two of them even had those scary beards we see on news bulletins from far-flung places we've bombed to smithereens. Surprisingly (for me) I also began to deal with a lot of women of all ages, in all manner of head coverings, who also held positions of power. Believe it or not, Muslim women can be educated, work the same deadly hours we do, and even boss their husbands about in front of his friends until he leaves the room in a huff to go and finish making the dinner.


So let's all just take a deep breath and I'll give you a glimpse into the other world of Islam in the 21st century. Of course, we cannot discount the appalling way women are mistreated by men in many cities and cultures, both with and without an Islamic population. Women who are being abused by male relatives are being abused by men, not God. Much of the practices and laws in "Islamic" countries have deviated from (or are totally unrelated) to the origins of Islam. Instead practices are based on cultural or traditional (and yes, male-orientated) customs that have been injected into these societies. For example, in Saudi Arabia, women are not allowed to drive by law. This rule is an invention of the Saudi monarchy, our government's close ally in the arms and oil trade. The fight for women's rights must sadly adjust to our own government's needs.

Read Full Article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/03/lauren-booth-conversion-to-islam

[Nukeman]

Lauren Booth: I'm now a Muslim. Why all the shock and horror?

News that Lauren Booth has converted to Islam provoked a storm of negative comments. Here she explains how it came about – and why it's time to stop patronising Muslim women




http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2010/11/2/1288722047598/Lauren-Booth--006.jpg
Lauren Booth . . .'How hard and callous non-Muslim friends and colleagues began to seem'. Photograph: Sarah Lee for the Guardian

It is five years since my first visit to Palestine. And when I arrived in the region, to work alongside charities in Gaza and the West Bank, I took with me the swagger of condescension that all white middle-class women (secretly or outwardly) hold towards poor Muslim women, women I presumed would be little more than black-robed blobs, silent in my peripheral vision. As a western woman with all my freedoms, I expected to deal professionally with men alone. After all, that's what the Muslim world is all about, right?

This week's screams of faux horror from fellow columnists on hearing of my conversion to Islam (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/islam) prove that this remains the stereotypical view regarding half a billion women currently practising Islam.

On my first trip to Ramallah, and many subsequent visits to Palestine, Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon, I did indeed deal with men in power. And, dear reader, one or two of them even had those scary beards we see on news bulletins from far-flung places we've bombed to smithereens. Surprisingly (for me) I also began to deal with a lot of women of all ages, in all manner of head coverings, who also held positions of power. Believe it or not, Muslim women can be educated, work the same deadly hours we do, and even boss their husbands about in front of his friends until he leaves the room in a huff to go and finish making the dinner.


So let's all just take a deep breath and I'll give you a glimpse into the other world of Islam in the 21st century. Of course, we cannot discount the appalling way women are mistreated by men in many cities and cultures, both with and without an Islamic population. Women who are being abused by male relatives are being abused by men, not God. Much of the practices and laws in "Islamic" countries have deviated from (or are totally unrelated) to the origins of Islam. Instead practices are based on cultural or traditional (and yes, male-orientated) customs that have been injected into these societies. For example, in Saudi Arabia, women are not allowed to drive by law. This rule is an invention of the Saudi monarchy, our government's close ally in the arms and oil trade. The fight for women's rights must sadly adjust to our own government's needs.

Read Full Article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/03/lauren-booth-conversion-to-islamAnd yet they continue to use and say they are Islamic in faith and deeds... You can't have it both ways. You can NOT say that ONLY good deeds are done by those followers of Islam and all BAD deeds are NOT TRUE Muslims... They either follow a differnt sect of Islam or YOU are selectively deciding on what YOU want to believe!?!?!?!?

[fj1200]

Who's Lauren Booth?

[Trigg]

She chose to convert, her choice. An easy one to make since she does not live in a muslim country.

Wonder if she will be stoned to death if she decides later on that it's not for her. Or is that only for people who are born into it?

[jimnyc]

Who's Lauren Booth?

I think she is Tony Blair's sister in law. I would like to see her move to Saudi Arabia for a few years, or a host of other countries, and then come back and tell us what it's like to be a woman in those worlds.

And she's also someone who converted to Islam and can tell her story. Women from many Islamic countries who try to convert in the other direction, aren't always so lucky about being able to tell that story. Apparently Muslims want to be cheery and point out when women or others convert to their faith. But they just may want to kill them if it's the other way around. I don't understand why it shouldn't or isn't just as easy to go in either direction and why it's been made so difficult, to the point your life is on the line in many places.

[red states rule]

She chose to convert, her choice. An easy one to make since she does not live in a muslim country.

Wonder if she will be stoned to death if she decides later on that it's not for her. Or is that only for people who are born into it?

Or beheaded?

She may be proof of the old saying "Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it"

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Lauren Booth: I'm now a Muslim. Why all the shock and horror?

News that Lauren Booth has converted to Islam provoked a storm of negative comments. Here she explains how it came about – and why it's time to stop patronising Muslim women




http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2010/11/2/1288722047598/Lauren-Booth--006.jpg
Lauren Booth . . .'How hard and callous non-Muslim friends and colleagues began to seem'. Photograph: Sarah Lee for the Guardian

It is five years since my first visit to Palestine. And when I arrived in the region, to work alongside charities in Gaza and the West Bank, I took with me the swagger of condescension that all white middle-class women (secretly or outwardly) hold towards poor Muslim women, women I presumed would be little more than black-robed blobs, silent in my peripheral vision. As a western woman with all my freedoms, I expected to deal professionally with men alone. After all, that's what the Muslim world is all about, right?

This week's screams of faux horror from fellow columnists on hearing of my conversion to Islam (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/islam) prove that this remains the stereotypical view regarding half a billion women currently practising Islam.

On my first trip to Ramallah, and many subsequent visits to Palestine, Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon, I did indeed deal with men in power. And, dear reader, one or two of them even had those scary beards we see on news bulletins from far-flung places we've bombed to smithereens. Surprisingly (for me) I also began to deal with a lot of women of all ages, in all manner of head coverings, who also held positions of power. Believe it or not, Muslim women can be educated, work the same deadly hours we do, and even boss their husbands about in front of his friends until he leaves the room in a huff to go and finish making the dinner.


So let's all just take a deep breath and I'll give you a glimpse into the other world of Islam in the 21st century. Of course, we cannot discount the appalling way women are mistreated by men in many cities and cultures, both with and without an Islamic population. Women who are being abused by male relatives are being abused by men, not God. Much of the practices and laws in "Islamic" countries have deviated from (or are totally unrelated) to the origins of Islam. Instead practices are based on cultural or traditional (and yes, male-orientated) customs that have been injected into these societies. For example, in Saudi Arabia, women are not allowed to drive by law. This rule is an invention of the Saudi monarchy, our government's close ally in the arms and oil trade. The fight for women's rights must sadly adjust to our own government's needs.

Read Full Article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/03/lauren-booth-conversion-to-islam

After seeing that picture of that ugly biatch they can have her and good riddance to ignorant garbage!
Say, think we could get them to take obama 's ugly better half!!??-:laugh:
Only shock and horror was the picture...:laugh2:

[red states rule]

I have to ask, will she find something to cause her to lose her head over?

That seems to happen to alot of women in that area of the world

[aboutime]

Who really cares about her conversion to Islam?

She's a nobody like the rest of us here. And not one of us have to announce our beliefs to anyone to gain those 15 minutes of fame, or while heading toward that 72 year old Virgin as the prize for being such a hypocrite?

[red states rule]

Who really cares about her conversion to Islam?

She's a nobody like the rest of us here. And not one of us have to announce our beliefs to anyone to gain those 15 minutes of fame, or while heading toward that 72 year old Virgin as the prize for being such a hypocrite?


15 minutes of fame and in return a life of misery and pain

[aboutime]

15 minutes of fame and in return a life of misery and pain


Unfortunately for this woman. Like both men, and women here in the U.S.A. who are so easily led, and always gullible enough to believe the Grass is always Greener...SYNDROME kind of thinking. Or, should I say. Non-thinking? They have to learn, and find-out the hard way. As most of us might say about such decisions in life.

But. Since we are Americans, and most of us follow the known rules of man...so to speak, and enjoy the freedoms given to us by our Constitution. We, in general need to remember to be tolerant of the wishes of others. Despite our warnings about how we believe some would intentionally bring harm to themselves based on what we have learned from History.

It's like allowing a child to grow up, being told not to stick their finger in the wall-socket. But the only way they learn about how the warnings were true comes...with that FIRST, Unforgettable SHOCK.

[Little-Acorn]

Who's Lauren Booth?

And why should we care what religion she chooses? It's her head.

[jafar00]

And yet they continue to use and say they are Islamic in faith and deeds... You can't have it both ways. You can NOT say that ONLY good deeds are done by those followers of Islam and all BAD deeds are NOT TRUE Muslims... They either follow a differnt sect of Islam or YOU are selectively deciding on what YOU want to believe!?!?!?!?

You didn't read what she said. She visited many Islamic countries and found that the stereotypes most westerners have about Muslims are totally false.

This paragraph in particular backs up much of what I have been saying elsewhere...


Much of the practices and laws in "Islamic" countries have deviated from (or are totally unrelated) to the origins of Islam. Instead practices are based on cultural or traditional (and yes, male-orientated) customs that have been injected into these societies. For example, in Saudi Arabia, women are not allowed to drive by law. This rule is an invention of the Saudi monarchy, our government's close ally in the arms and oil trade. The fight for women's rights must sadly adjust to our own government's needs.

The men (pigs) who make up these stupid and often brutal laws are not doing so out of Islamic teachings so you can't say they are a different sect of Islam.


She chose to convert, her choice. An easy one to make since she does not live in a muslim country.

Wonder if she will be stoned to death if she decides later on that it's not for her. Or is that only for people who are born into it?

As has been discussed at length elsewhere, there is no worldly punishment prescribed for leaving Islam. Only the inventions of evil men.


I think she is Tony Blair's sister in law. I would like to see her move to Saudi Arabia for a few years, or a host of other countries, and then come back and tell us what it's like to be a woman in those worlds.

The point is, she DID move to Islamic countries to work and live and ended up becoming a Muslim after seeing a life that was totally opposite to what most westerners perceive to be life in an Islamic country.


After seeing that picture of that ugly biatch they can have her and good riddance to ignorant garbage!
Say, think we could get them to take obama 's ugly better half!!??-:laugh:
Only shock and horror was the picture...:laugh2:

.....and you have the audacity to criticise Muslims over their treatment of women?!? -_-


Lauren Booth . . .'How hard and callous non-Muslim friends and colleagues began to seem'.

[jimnyc]

As has been discussed at length elsewhere, there is no worldly punishment prescribed for leaving Islam. Only the inventions of evil men.

That's correct, as far as I know there is no punishment prescribed via the Quran or Hadith for apostasy. But it's still take quite seriously in MANY Muslim areas and MANY are still met with harassment all the way up to the death penalty for attempting to leave the faith. Doesn't matter to me personally that it's not in the official holy readings, it's still a problem within Islam and it's still something that makes no sense whatsoever. People should be free to disbelieve the faith anytime they feel like it, and leave anytime, and anywhere. But it varies depending on where you live. Some places need to get up to speed, and it's not Christian based areas. So while it is the inventions and acts of men, it's overwhelmingly and primarily Muslim.

[aboutime]

You didn't read what she said. She visited many Islamic countries and found that the stereotypes most westerners have about Muslims are totally false.

This paragraph in particular backs up much of what I have been saying elsewhere...



The men (pigs) who make up these stupid and often brutal laws are not doing so out of Islamic teachings so you can't say they are a different sect of Islam.



As has been discussed at length elsewhere, there is no worldly punishment prescribed for leaving Islam. Only the inventions of evil men.



The point is, she DID move to Islamic countries to work and live and ended up becoming a Muslim after seeing a life that was totally opposite to what most westerners perceive to be life in an Islamic country.



.....and you have the audacity to criticise Muslims over their treatment of women?!? -_-



jafar. Why have you come back here? Did you fail the entry exam for BOMB VEST'S, and got turned down for being too much like the enemy you pretend, you are not?
Hypocrisy is your game, and Hypocrisy is your name jafar. We have no need to criticise Muslims over their treatment of women. The Internet, and News outlets around the world...tell all about it...every day.

[avatar4321]

Not really sure why I should be shocked, horrified, or even concern myself when someone i dont know converts to Islam? There is nothing I can do to help her. I cant change her life. I dont have her email. I cant contact her or have any influence over her. She doesnt have any influence over me. While I am concerned for the welfare of her soul, i dont see what I can do here.

[Noir]

And yet they continue to use and say they are Islamic in faith and deeds... You can't have it both ways. You can NOT say that ONLY good deeds are done by those followers of Islam and all BAD deeds are NOT TRUE Muslims... They either follow a differnt sect of Islam or YOU are selectively deciding on what YOU want to believe!?!?!?!?

Totally agree.

However, one my also accept that Christians 'have it both ways' too, not in deeds, but rather in scripture.

This is a problem (to different extents) with all religions that have 'how to live your life' teachings, written centuries and millennia before modern, liberal social development, and philosophies.

[NightTrain]

Not really sure why I should be shocked, horrified, or even concern myself when someone i dont know converts to Islam? There is nothing I can do to help her. I cant change her life. I dont have her email. I cant contact her or have any influence over her. She doesnt have any influence over me. While I am concerned for the welfare of her soul, i dont see what I can do here.


Agree.

I will add that she is an idiot and there is nothing I can do to change her decision to be a muzzie.

If, by some strange chance, I hear that she gets buried up to her neck and stoned, I hereby promise to have a shot of good whiskey, just like I did when Rachel Corrie pulled her stupid stunt.

[jafar00]

That's correct, as far as I know there is no punishment prescribed via the Quran or Hadith for apostasy. But it's still take quite seriously in MANY Muslim areas and MANY are still met with harassment all the way up to the death penalty for attempting to leave the faith. Doesn't matter to me personally that it's not in the official holy readings, it's still a problem within Islam and it's still something that makes no sense whatsoever. People should be free to disbelieve the faith anytime they feel like it, and leave anytime, and anywhere. But it varies depending on where you live. Some places need to get up to speed, and it's not Christian based areas. So while it is the inventions and acts of men, it's overwhelmingly and primarily Muslim.

Bad leadership and corruption is to blame, not Islam and not Muslims. Do you blame Assad's bombing of civilian areas killing hundreds at a time on Islam because it is in a country full of Muslims, or do you see it like it actually is? A despot desperately trying to hold on to his money and power?

[abso]

did anyone actually read the article ??? ;)

[Nukeman]

did anyone actually read the article ??? ;)Yes dispite Jafars insinuation that I didn't. Again I am more interested in how those that LEAVE the religion of peace or treated not a weternized woman who runs in circles of affluence and not in the other area's that might see her abused in some way!!

[jimnyc]

Bad leadership and corruption is to blame, not Islam and not Muslims. Do you blame Assad's bombing of civilian areas killing hundreds at a time on Islam because it is in a country full of Muslims, or do you see it like it actually is? A despot desperately trying to hold on to his money and power?

Why are you moving the uprights to try and get me to miss the field goal? There's a big difference between a dictator using means to kill his own people to stay in power - compared to someone trying to leave the Islamic faith, or not believe in the faith. It would be better to just address what I say when quoting me... Apostasy - far too many people punished for not believing what they are taught in Islam. Far too many people killed for trying to leave the Islamic faith.


did anyone actually read the article ??? ;)

Yes, I did. And then I even further researched I think it was like 2 or 3 more websites to get a better understanding before I replied. I stand by my original comments. And I'll add, there's a big difference between a woman of prominence converting to Islam and traveling about as a free person and having the ability to enjoy nothing but the better things in life. Compared to, let's say, a woman born in Saudi Arabia and living her entire life there as a woman.

I'm very confident that there are both men and women who have converted to Islam that can tell us great stories. Of course it's possible. Doing so here in America, or the UK, or Australia... You can still live with the same freedoms as everyone else only now you're a Muslim and should be following Islamic rules and an Islamic way of life. I am sure what she is saying is her honest beliefs and factual experiences and I believe her 100%. The question is, if I post article after article about Muslim women who converted, or tried to convert, away from Islam to another religion - would you believe the stories or dismiss them?

[jafar00]

Yes dispite Jafars insinuation that I didn't. Again I am more interested in how those that LEAVE the religion of peace or treated not a weternized woman who runs in circles of affluence and not in the other area's that might see her abused in some way!!

Well, it was her mixing with the less privileged that led her to Islam. I also mix some very poor Muslims when I go to visit my wife's family in Egypt. All of the abuses some of your go on about just don't happen in those communities.


Why are you moving the uprights to try and get me to miss the field goal? There's a big difference between a dictator using means to kill his own people to stay in power - compared to someone trying to leave the Islamic faith, or not believe in the faith. It would be better to just address what I say when quoting me... Apostasy - far too many people punished for not believing what they are taught in Islam. Far too many people killed for trying to leave the Islamic faith.

You did agree that there is no punishment for apostasy in Islam, yet you still blame Islam for the death penalty that is in some places. My Assad comparison is valid. You blame Islam for some of the bad stuff that happens Muslim countries, some of which are lawless warzones despite the fact that much of the bad stuff is not from Islam at all but is from ancient pre-Islamic tribal customs or from corrupt despots grabbing power and influence where ever they can.

[Nukeman]

Well, it was her mixing with the less privileged that led her to Islam. I also mix some very poor Muslims when I go to visit my wife's family in Egypt. All of the abuses some of your go on about just don't happen in those communities.



You did agree that there is no punishment for apostasy in Islam, yet you still blame Islam for the death penalty that is in some places. My Assad comparison is valid. You blame Islam for some of the bad stuff that happens Muslim countries, some of which are lawless warzones despite the fact that much of the bad stuff is not from Islam at all but is from ancient pre-Islamic tribal customs or from corrupt despots grabbing power and influence where ever they can.
Yet its done in the NAME of Islam!!!!!!!!!!! do you dispute that??

Split the hairs how you like but ultimately those "not real Mulims" are trashing YOUR name and doing things in the name of YOUR religion so its YOUR house that needs to be put in order or at the very least brought into the 20th century let alone the 21st!!!!:poke:

[aboutime]

This thread is much like those losing attempts between the Global Warming, and Global Cooling crowd.

And this forum. Though well intended, and a great place to vent. Is not the venue where any of us are ever going to get agreement on almost any topic.

It's just not in the stars...so to speak.

Another fine example for jimnyc, as to the contribution DebatePolicy has made in efforts to bring strangers together, and disagree. Otherwise. If everyone AGREED all the time here. There would be no reason to have DebatePolicy.

[jafar00]

Yet its done in the NAME of Islam!!!!!!!!!!! do you dispute that??

Split the hairs how you like but ultimately those "not real Mulims" are trashing YOUR name and doing things in the name of YOUR religion so its YOUR house that needs to be put in order or at the very least brought into the 20th century let alone the 21st!!!!:poke:

No need to shout :p

A lot of very bad stuff is done in the name of Jesus by Christians too and it is generally accepted that those things are against the scripture. The same goes for Muslims. If they are acting in a way that is contrary to their scripture, what they say is lies.

[jimnyc]

No need to shout :p

A lot of very bad stuff is done in the name of Jesus by Christians too and it is generally accepted that those things are against the scripture. The same goes for Muslims. If they are acting in a way that is contrary to their scripture, what they say is lies.

And we go in circles. Yes, things can and maybe are done in the name of the Bible or scripture. But in today's modern age, there are literally probably about 10,000 violent attacks from Muslims for every 1 by a Christian. VERY rarely do you read stories about Christians going crazy, in countries all over the world, and doing SO MANY things based on a holy book. To try and compare the 2 when someone points out violence in the name of Islam is comical. One religion and the atrocities as a result of it is still in the stone ages, or worse, while the other has become civilized. The 2 religions are SO FAR apart when it comes to violence emanating from their holy books and religion in today's age. If you don't understand this, you are naive. I think you know damn well that the Islamic world has serious problems with violence and abuse, all over the world and in many countries, but you continually deny it. Or at the very best, you'll just say that it's like that in Christianity or other religions - but the percentage comparisons are not even in the same millennium.

[jafar00]

And we go in circles. Yes, things can and maybe are done in the name of the Bible or scripture. But in today's modern age, there are literally probably about 10,000 violent attacks from Muslims for every 1 by a Christian. VERY rarely do you read stories about Christians going crazy, in countries all over the world, and doing SO MANY things based on a holy book.

Yes, you very rarely hear about the Christians going crazy but they do and often in Nigeria, CAR, Egypt and other African countries there are plenty of mental Christians doing bad stuff. There are lots of Jews doing crazy bad stuff in Israel too but most press and media concentrate on Muslims which makes it seem like they are the only bad ones.

[avatar4321]

Agree.

I will add that she is an idiot and there is nothing I can do to change her decision to be a muzzie.

If, by some strange chance, I hear that she gets buried up to her neck and stoned, I hereby promise to have a shot of good whiskey, just like I did when Rachel Corrie pulled her stupid stunt.

If she is in that position and survives, and I have the opportunity to, I will gladly dig her out and help her get the medical attention she needs along with sharing the Good word of God with her to heal her spirits.

[avatar4321]

This thread is much like those losing attempts between the Global Warming, and Global Cooling crowd.

And this forum. Though well intended, and a great place to vent. Is not the venue where any of us are ever going to get agreement on almost any topic.

It's just not in the stars...so to speak.

Another fine example for jimnyc, as to the contribution DebatePolicy has made in efforts to bring strangers together, and disagree. Otherwise. If everyone AGREED all the time here. There would be no reason to have DebatePolicy.

We dont have to agree to have a productive conversation.

[taft2012]

15 minutes of fame and in return a life of misery and pain

"Life"? How about "eternity"?

Her conversion seems to be based upon her discoveries that Muslims seem to be very contented people, like some sort of New Age cult, and that they are simply misunderstood. Nowhere does she, or indeed anyone on this thread so far, address what she's really done; reject Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the savior, the Messiah, who came and died for our sins.

It is one thing to advocate for people you believe are misunderstood and mistreated for their beliefs. It is also one thing to embrace the spirituality you observe in others, and reject the materialism you see in some others.

BUT!... it is quite another thing altogether to renounce the divinity of Jesus Christ. That's the main basis for the differences between the two religions and she didn't even address it.

As a Roman Catholic I believe heaven awaits for all of those of good will, Christian or not. However, I would imagine she's going to have to do some serious 'splaining when she arrives at the pearly gates. It's one thing if you were not born into Christianity and never had an opportunity to be exposed to it in any serious way in any depth... it's quite another to live your entire life as a Christian and one day declare "I have personally decided that Jesus Christ is not divine. He is not the Son of God."

And for what? For some political points? Because they do some kind of groovy meditation that makes you feel good? For attention?

She's stupid. She rejected Jesus Christ knowing nothing about the Christian faith, and embraced Islam, knowing nothing about that faith, other than she happens to think they're misunderstood in geo-political issues.

[abso]

"Life"? How about "eternity"?

Her conversion seems to be based upon her discoveries that Muslims seem to be very contented people, like some sort of New Age cult, and that they are simply misunderstood. Nowhere does she, or indeed anyone on this thread so far, address what she's really done; reject Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the savior, the Messiah, who came and died for our sins.

It is one thing to advocate for people you believe are misunderstood and mistreated for their beliefs. It is also one thing to embrace the spirituality you observe in others, and reject the materialism you see in some others.

BUT!... it is quite another thing altogether to renounce the divinity of Jesus Christ. That's the main basis for the differences between the two religions and she didn't even address it.

As a Roman Catholic I believe heaven awaits for all of those of good will, Christian or not. However, I would imagine she's going to have to do some serious 'splaining when she arrives at the pearly gates. It's one thing if you were not born into Christianity and never had an opportunity to be exposed to it in any serious way in any depth... it's quite another to live your entire life as a Christian and one day declare "I have personally decided that Jesus Christ is not divine. He is not the Son of God."

And for what? For some political points? Because they do some kind of groovy meditation that makes you feel good? For attention?

She's stupid. She rejected Jesus Christ knowing nothing about the Christian faith, and embraced Islam, knowing nothing about that faith, other than she happens to think they're misunderstood in geo-political issues.

same here, we think that it's stupid to think of Jesus as the son of GOD, we believe that GOD have no sons, and Jesus (peace be upon him) was a messenger from god.

simply, you think that we are stupid for rejecting the divinity of Jesus, and we think that it's stupid to believe in the divinity of any human in the first place.

[jafar00]

The trinity is polytheism!

It also makes no sense. God has a son and his son is also God? That is a classic example of a Paradox :)

[taft2012]

same here, we think that it's stupid to think of Jesus as the son of GOD, we believe that GOD have no sons, and Jesus (peace be upon him) was a messenger from god.

simply, you think that we are stupid for rejecting the divinity of Jesus, and we think that it's stupid to believe in the divinity of any human in the first place.


My point was, ignored as expected, that she switched faiths without citing any scriptural or doctrinal reasons related to either faith. She's obviously not a religious person and clearly views conversion as more of a political and social decision.

Moving on, if Jesus is a just a messenger from God and another prophet like Mohammad, why don't you all run around sawing off heads and stoning to death those who insult the "Prophet Jesus"?

[taft2012]

The trinity is polytheism!

It also makes no sense. God has a son and his son is also God? That is a classic example of a Paradox :)

Islam is paganism. You deify Mohammad, a human being, who you admit is just a human being.

[taft2012]

The trinity is polytheism!

It also makes no sense. God has a son and his son is also God? That is a classic example of a Paradox :)

My God created everything, can assume any form, and is not limited by the imaginations of man.

Your god obviously has limitations.

My God is better than your god.

[jafar00]

My point was, ignored as expected, that she switched faiths without citing any scriptural or doctrinal reasons related to either faith. She's obviously not a religious person and clearly views conversion as more of a political and social decision.

Moving on, if Jesus is a just a messenger from God and another prophet like Mohammad, why don't you all run around sawing off heads and stoning to death those who insult the "Prophet Jesus"?

We don't all run around sawing heads or stoning people, or there would be a hell of a lot less people around. There are a billion and a half of us you know.


Islam is paganism. You deify Mohammad, a human being, who you admit is just a human being.

We do not deify Mohamed (saw) at all! We acknowledge his Prophethood as those who came before him, and we love him for it, but we do not worship him, nor do we call on him or any other people like Mariam (as) as intermediaries between us and God. We pray directly to God that's all.


My God created everything, can assume any form, and is not limited by the imaginations of man.

Your god obviously has limitations.

My God is better than your god.

There goes your polytheism again. There is only ONE God.

Have you heard the Islamic declaration of Faith? This is what everyone states when they become a Muslim. It also forms a part of our daily prayers.

Maybe this can create some understanding between us.

اشهد ان لا اله الا الله
I declare that there is only one God.

و اشهد ان محمدا رسول الله
And that Mohamed is his Messenger

We believe in one all powerful and all knowing God who has nor needs no partners or sons. We do not worship any of the messengers or Prophets however we love them for their sacrifices and their strength in delivering God's message to us.

[taft2012]

We don't all run around sawing heads or stoning people, or there would be a hell of a lot less people around. There are a billion and a half of us you know.

Certainly moreso than Christians or Jews. And you didn't answer the question; why do you only saw heads off in the name of one prophet and not all of them? If I said "Elijah had cooties" would you saw off my head?


We do not deify Mohamed (saw) at all! We acknowledge his Prophethood as those who came before him, and we love him for it, but we do not worship him, nor do we call on him or any other people like Mariam (as) as intermediaries between us and God. We pray directly to God that's all.


Yes, you do deify Mohammad. That's why waves of Muslims take to the streets screaming "BLASPEHMY" about silly things like newspaper cartoons.

It's not possible to blaspheme against a mere man, is it?

Also, worshiping two deities makes you a polytheistic faith.



There goes your polytheism again. There is only ONE God.

One God, who can take any form He pleases. At least *MY* God can. And the Trinity does not cite three Gods, it cites one God taking three forms.

[jimnyc]

Islam is paganism. You deify Mohammad, a human being, who you admit is just a human being.

Not only just a human being, but a "man" who married a 6 year old girl and a "man" that was also a pedophile and had sex with a 9 year old girl. Muslims want to avoid that part of Muhammed, or deny it, or try to explain it away based on the difference in times. But in the end, a pedophile is a pedophile.

Also, if things were different back then - then how come when I bring up CURRENT atrocities and abuses committed by muslims, I am continually met with comparisons of what Christians did centuries ago or perhaps longer? Amazing how muslims decide to forget some things and not others. Deny certain things happen but not others. Make excuses for some things but not others.

[aboutime]

We don't all run around sawing heads or stoning people, or there would be a hell of a lot less people around. There are a billion and a half of us you know.



We do not deify Mohamed (saw) at all! We acknowledge his Prophethood as those who came before him, and we love him for it, but we do not worship him, nor do we call on him or any other people like Mariam (as) as intermediaries between us and God. We pray directly to God that's all.



There goes your polytheism again. There is only ONE God.

Have you heard the Islamic declaration of Faith? This is what everyone states when they become a Muslim. It also forms a part of our daily prayers.

Maybe this can create some understanding between us.

اشهد ان لا اله الا الله
I declare that there is only one God.

و اشهد ان محمدا رسول الله
And that Mohamed is his Messenger

We believe in one all powerful and all knowing God who has nor needs no partners or sons. We do not worship any of the messengers or Prophets however we love them for their sacrifices and their strength in delivering God's message to us.


jafar. Because you say it, and insist it doesn't happen exactly as you claimed above...is a nice excuse. But it doesn't change the actual, recorded facts as witnessed by other Human Beings. No matter what you say, or insist.
Blowing Smoke up everybody's butt...as you often try to do here. Only exposes you, and others like you who must always present some excuse, reason, or outright lie to hide behind.
Once again. You cannot, and will not fool us with your self-designed, practiced rhetoric, and semantics that you easily play on those who ALWAYS must believe someone like you....Or...They Lose their Heads.