Why I harped on blasphemy laws

[jimnyc]

Here is a 14yr old girl at best, perhaps a 14yr old girl with the capacity of someone much younger. They are still making delays and holding this girl in prison. No exaggeration - she is getting worse treatment than I see abusers and murderers get. These blasphemy laws, or should I say how they apply the punishments, and this whole process, is extremely antiquated and shows some serious issues. This is despicable to do to a child. But even if it weren't a child, how far are people willing to go if their feelings are hurt, or if they feel their holy book has been desecrated? Is this "tolerance" on any level? And how do you get away with literally stealing a man from a police station and setting him on fire? It's ok to break someone out of jail. And it's ok the light THEM on fire, just don't try and light a book on fire!


ISLAMABAD (AP) — A judge hearing the case of a Pakistani Christian girl accused of blasphemy delayed her bail hearing on Thursday after a lawyer questioned a medical report putting the girl's age at 14, suggesting the government had tried to influence it.

The new challenge quashed the possibility that the controversy surrounding the case would be swiftly defused and the girl set free. The case has focused attention on Pakistan's strict blasphemy laws that can result in life in prison or even death.

Christians in her Islamabad neighborhood left the area en masse as soon as the accusations surfaced, fearing retribution from their Muslim neighbors as the case has inflamed religious tensions in this Muslim majority country.

Questions have been raised about her age, whether she is mentally impaired, what exactly she was burning and why. A medical report submitted Tuesday put her age at 14, which would have moved the case to the more lenient juvenile justice system. It said her mental state was even less than that of a 14-year-old, which raised questions about whether she had the capacity to understand her actions.
...

The lawyer said the girl had confessed to burning part of a Quran and said he would seek the maximum punishment. He said no one should be allowed to hurt the sentiments of Muslims by desecrating their holy book or by insulting their religious personalities.

"If you burn me, I will forgive you, but if you burn our Quran, then I will fight a legal battle to seek maximum punishment for anyone doing this act," he said. "We will not accept any such thing," he said.

Under the Pakistani legal system, everyday citizens can bring a court case against someone simply by hiring a lawyer. A state prosecutor was also in the courtroom, as were two defense lawyers for the girl, but the proceeding was dominated by Abdur Raheem.

Critics of Pakistan's blasphemy laws say they can be used to settle vendettas or seek retribution. Many of Pakistan's minorities, including Christians, live in fear of being accused of blasphemy.

People accused of the crime, even those that aren't convicted, often face vigilante justice by outraged Pakistanis. A Pakistani man accused of blasphemy in July was dragged from a police station in the center of the country, beaten to death and his body set on fire.

http://news.yahoo.com/pakistan-bail-delayed-christian-blasphemy-case-054715627.html

[gabosaurus]

Jim, you (and others at DP) keep trying to compare the U.S. (a democracy) with countries that are religious autocracies. With the supreme ruler being God.
It's a completely different situation. Everything a decent person here sees as a horrific crime is looked at as the norm over there.

The problem is that we are selective in which governments we choose to oppose. Religious crimes are just has horrible in Saudi Arabia as in Iran. But we look the other way at the Saudis because they are allegedly an ally.
Same way with China. They treat their people as worse as any country in the world. But we hardly care.

In extreme Muslim nations, the only blasphemy is against Islam. Nothing else matters. Individuals mean nothing. They have no value.
You have to force yourself to think in a different manner.

It doesn't mean that these crimes are acceptable. No sane person thinks they are decent. Religious extremists are not sane. They are not rational. But we can't just say "we must destroy everyone who doesn't think like us." It is what separates us from insane extremists.

[jimnyc]

I know what you are saying, Gabs, and agree to an extent. I would have liked to have thought, at the very least, that "children" would be handled differently. There are reports that she is 11, and the oldest being 14. Other reports are saying she perhaps has Downs Syndrome. At worst, it's a 14yr old competent girl who went against archaic laws.

I would speak out if this was America, or any other country. If it happens in SA, I'll point it out from there too. Handling a matter like this would be wrong no matter who did it or where.

And it's not just radicals or extremists. It's simply anywhere where they hold Shariah Law. As you can read from the guy bringing these charges, they take blasphemy charges very seriously, and certainly more seriously than it needs to be, especially when it's a child involved. But at least they haven't cut her head off for her crime. Yet.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Jim, you (and others at DP) keep trying to compare the U.S. (a democracy) with countries that are religious autocracies. With the supreme ruler being God.
It's a completely different situation. Everything a decent person here sees as a horrific crime is looked at as the norm over there.

The problem is that we are selective in which governments we choose to oppose. Religious crimes are just has horrible in Saudi Arabia as in Iran. But we look the other way at the Saudis because they are allegedly an ally.
Same way with China. They treat their people as worse as any country in the world. But we hardly care.

In extreme Muslim nations, the only blasphemy is against Islam. Nothing else matters. Individuals mean nothing. They have no value.
You have to force yourself to think in a different manner.

It doesn't mean that these crimes are acceptable. No sane person thinks they are decent. Religious extremists are not sane. They are not rational. But we can't just say "we must destroy everyone who doesn't think like us." It is what separates us from insane extremists.

Why can't we say that when they say it about us and start waging a war to do it? You act as if they havent been attacking the world hard and heavy for over three decades non-stop , murdering hundreds of thousands and its escalating at a very rapid pace. Your typical lib but "we cant " is exactly how people end up dead or enslaved. I see whats coming but people like you, the deniers , are too blinded by idiotcy to see until the blade is coming down to severe your head from your miserable shoulders! Save your appeasing bullshit for your last day alive, because it endangers my family and I do not take kindly to that myself!
You acknowledge how brutally bad they are and your only answer to that is --"we can't or we shouldn't do anything about it"! Why tha ffkk not, dont they bleed !!?? I am sick of this damn play nice to people that seek our destruction! I was not raised to play nice with such insane murdering assholes! Wake tha ffkk up ! -Tyr

[jimnyc]

Apparently this child has been granted bail. From the way the article reads, and other things I have read about blasphemy and how such things are handled, it appears a child may be in danger and have to leave the country for her safety? They say they have no plans for that, but it sure sounds like a bit much for a child to have to endure, over something so petty.


ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - A Christian girl arrested in Pakistan for defaming Islam was granted bail on Friday, a judge said, days after police detained a Muslim cleric on suspicion of planting evidence to frame her in a case that caused an international outcry.

Masih, believed to be 14, may be in danger if she is set free and stays in Pakistan. Her arrest last month angered religious and secular groups worldwide but protests in Pakistan attracted only a handful of supporters.

In Muslim Pakistan, the mere allegation of causing offence to Islam can mean death. Those accused under an anti-blasphemy law are sometimes lynched by the public even if they are found innocent by the courts.

The girl would be reunited with her family at a location that was being kept secret for security reasons, said Robinson Asghar, an aide to Minister for National Harmony Paul Bhatti.

There were no plans to send Masih abroad, Bhatti told Reuters.

"I am really satisfied and happy," he said. "I believe justice has prevailed."

Masih was accused by Muslim neighbors of burning Islamic religious texts and arrested, but police recently said a cleric had been taken into custody after witnesses reported he had torn pages from a Koran and planted them in Masih's bag beside burned papers.

In Masih's impoverished village on the edge of Islamabad, some said they were disappointed that she had not been sentenced.

"This is wrong. She burned the Koran," said resident Ijaz Sarwar near the local mosque.

Nearby, Saddam Hussein, 18, expressed sympathies for the cleric accused of framing Masih. "If she is freed, the maulvi (cleric) should be freed as well," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/christian-girl-granted-bail-pakistan-islam-defamation-case-075904544.html

[aboutime]

Jim, you (and others at DP) keep trying to compare the U.S. (a democracy) with countries that are religious autocracies. With the supreme ruler being God.
It's a completely different situation. Everything a decent person here sees as a horrific crime is looked at as the norm over there.

The problem is that we are selective in which governments we choose to oppose. Religious crimes are just has horrible in Saudi Arabia as in Iran. But we look the other way at the Saudis because they are allegedly an ally.
Same way with China. They treat their people as worse as any country in the world. But we hardly care.

In extreme Muslim nations, the only blasphemy is against Islam. Nothing else matters. Individuals mean nothing. They have no value.
You have to force yourself to think in a different manner.

It doesn't mean that these crimes are acceptable. No sane person thinks they are decent. Religious extremists are not sane. They are not rational. But we can't just say "we must destroy everyone who doesn't think like us." It is what separates us from insane extremists.




Gabby. There you go again. Making false statements that you seem convinced, are real, honest facts.

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT FOR GABBY.

The United States of America IS NOT a Democracy.
And you sound like jafar. Making up your own excuses to defend the Intentional Murder of Human Beings, based on false prophets who claim to be superior to the Common Laws of Man, and Humanity that MAKE MURDER A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY...for any reason.

But then. Considering your lousy past here on DB.
Nobody is surprised with what you said, without bothering to THINK.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Gabby. There you go again. Making false statements that you seem convinced, are real, honest facts.

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT FOR GABBY.

The United States of America IS NOT a Democracy.
And you sound like jafar. Making up your own excuses to defend the Intentional Murder of Human Beings, based on false prophets who claim to be superior to the Common Laws of Man, and Humanity that MAKE MURDER A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY...for any reason.

But then. Considering your lousy past here on DB.
Nobody is surprised with what you said, without bothering to THINK.

True. United States is a Representative Republic based upon democratic ideals and principles insured by our Constitution. A pure democracy is mob rule, plain and simple. We were founded as a Republic not a pure democracy and for good reason which should be obvious to anybody not a moron or blinded by silly liberal/leftist ideals. The Occupy movement tried to use pure democracy and its anrachy (mob rule ) mentality and we got a good look at its stupidity in action.-Tyr

[aboutime]

True. United States is a Representative Republic based upon democratic ideals and principles insured by our Constitution. A pure democracy is mob rule, plain and simple. We were founded as a Republic not a pure democracy and for good reason which should be obvious to anybody not a moron or blinded by silly liberal/leftist ideals. The Occupy movement tried to use pure democracy and its anrachy (mob rule ) mentality and we got a good look at its stupidity in action.-Tyr



Tyr. I have noticed, as you probably have. How gabby comes here.
Throws a couple of political mud-balls, then runs and hides, away from the desired attacks, but without the courage to stick around long enough to be proven nearly illiterate when it comes to actually communicating with other human beings. Those who CHALLENGE her mentality, and knowledge, are generally always proven correct about gabby????

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

................. I would have liked to have thought, at the very least, that "children" would be handled differently. There are reports that she is 11, and the oldest being 14. Other reports are saying she perhaps has Downs Syndrome. At worst, it's a 14yr old competent girl who went against archaic laws.

I would speak out if this was America, or any other country. If it happens in SA, I'll point it out from there too. Handling a matter like this would be wrong no matter who did it or where.

And it's not just radicals or extremists. It's simply anywhere where they hold Shariah Law. As you can read from the guy bringing these charges, they take blasphemy charges very seriously, and certainly more seriously than it needs to be, especially when it's a child involved. But at least they haven't cut her head off for her crime. Yet.

Sharia law is --RELIGIOUS NAZISM !!!!!
SAD BUT TRUE. In some ways it is even worse IMHO.-Tyr

[aboutime]

Sharia law is --RELIGIOUS NAZISM !!!!!
SAD BUT TRUE. In some ways it is even worse IMHO.-Tyr



Tyr. You also forgot to show the other "DEFINITION" or alternate word to SHARIA. Which is. HATRED. At least as we all can see how they Secretly define it. Hiding behind another brand of Religion of Peace to fool the foolish, and gullible.

[jafar00]

Sharia law is --RELIGIOUS NAZISM !!!!!
SAD BUT TRUE. In some ways it is even worse IMHO.-Tyr

Hitler was a Christian...

Anyway, we are talking about the over reaction of a bunch of villagers in deepest darkest Pakistan, not Sharia.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Hitler was a Christian...

Anyway, we are talking about the over reaction of a bunch of villagers in deepest darkest Pakistan, not Sharia.

You are right Hitler did mention Christianity many times in his writings. He paid Christianity a lot of lip service in Mein Kampf and he claimed to be a Christian. But Hitler's secretary, Martin Bormann, also declared that "National Socialism (Nazism) and Christianity are irreconcilable" and Hitler didn't bother to counter it. Also Hermann Rauschning, a Hitler associate, said, "One is either a Christian or a German. You can't be both." In addition Hitler declared Nazism the state religion and the Bible was replaced by Mein Kampf in the schools.

[Gaffer]

Hitler was a Christian...

Anyway, we are talking about the over reaction of a bunch of villagers in deepest darkest Pakistan, not Sharia.

Hitler was an oculist and the nazis were atheist like the communists. There was nothing Christian about hitler or the nazis.

[aboutime]

Hitler was an oculist and the nazis were atheist like the communists. There was nothing Christian about hitler or the nazis.



Anyone notice lately. Whenever the discussion leads toward Muslims, Catholics, and even Christians. Some big mouth who feels so superior to everyone else, almost instantly must insert the word HITLER into the mix?

Doing that is nearly equal to some Liberal, Democrats who must always resort to using the word RACIST in order to stop, or slow down any conversation that threatens them, and places them in a position they refuse to accept. Fearing they will be labeled as racists themselves. And that would be worse than using the 'N' word in many respects.

The use of the words HITLER, and RACISTS show me. And should show everyone else. How the user of those words has found an easy way to silence, or inhibit anyone who honestly wants to discuss certain things. But most of all. Those who feel they must use those words to defend themselves in any way. Merely demonstrate how their HATRED, and real feelings are being disguised, behind those words they CHOOSE to use...when whispering to themselves for nothing more than to IMPRESS.