Do You Feel You're Being Sold Out On Illegal Immigration Representation?

[Pale Rider]

I've been thinking this for some time now, but I just heard this talk radio, that if this bill is rammed down our throats by dems and REPUBS alike, many repubs, and possible some dems as well, will leave their parties and register as independents.

So that is the poll question. What will you do if this AMNESTY bill is passed?

[nevadamedic]

I've been thinking this for some time now, but I just heard this talk radio, that if this bill is rammed down our throats by dems and REPUBS alike, many repubs, and possible some dems as well, will leave their parties and register as independents.

So that is the poll question. What will you do if this AMNESTY bill is passed?

Make damn sure the one's who supported the bill dont get elected again.

[Pale Rider]

Make damn sure the one's who supported the bill dont get elected again.

I'll just leave the republican party, period. I'll never again call myself a republican.

[5stringJeff]

While I normally vote GOP, I would never vote for any politician of any party that voted for this bill. I'll vote third party if I have to, or write myself in.

[Hugh Lincoln]

What will you do if this AMNESTY bill is passed?

Personally I'm not betting either way. To me, the underlying issue is about what's happening to whites in America right now. Amnesty/immigration is a big part of it, but I don't think that passage or failure of the bill will have too big of an effect on what's already proving to be a century-long attempt to push whites out of power in the U.S.A.

To me, that's the real focus. Whites are constantly focused on what I call "proxy" fights, and they always seem to lose these. We need to start fighting back on the terms we're being attacked: race, race, race.

The hardest part is convincing whites of this. They have been trained all their lives to think and act just the opposite. But this has to change, or we die. Period.

But if we can ever manage to do this, victory will be easily obtainable.

[Pale Rider]

Personally I'm not betting either way. To me, the underlying issue is about what's happening to whites in America right now. Amnesty/immigration is a big part of it, but I don't think that passage or failure of the bill will have too big of an effect on what's already proving to be a century-long attempt to push whites out of power in the U.S.A.

To me, that's the real focus. Whites are constantly focused on what I call "proxy" fights, and they always seem to lose these. We need to start fighting back on the terms we're being attacked: race, race, race.

The hardest part is convincing whites of this. They have been trained all their lives to think and act just the opposite. But this has to change, or we die. Period.

But if we can ever manage to do this, victory will be easily obtainable.

To me, it's got nothing to do with race. I've been to mexico. I like mexico. I've had a good time there and was treated decent. I have no problem with mexicans as a race. They are our neighbors. But, BUT, I do have a HUGE problem with them entering my country ILLEGALY, and those who would REWARD THEM FOR IT.

I'm so pissed off my blood is boiling, and from what I've been hearing on talk radio today, MOST OF AMERICA IS AS WELL. The repubs and the dems ramming this amnesty shit down our throats better beware. They're betraying their voting base on both sides. This coming presidential election could very well be the most historic ever. We'll see an independent in the White House.

[glockmail]

I've been thinking this for some time now, but I just heard this talk radio, that if this bill is rammed down our throats by dems and REPUBS alike, many repubs, and possible some dems as well, will leave their parties and register as independents.

So that is the poll question. What will you do if this AMNESTY bill is passed?

I'm conservative and will always vote the most conservative candidate.

[Pale Rider]

I'm conservative and will always vote the most conservative candidate.

Well times are changin'. Nowadays the most conservative does NOT mean they're a republican.

[Gunny]

I've been thinking this for some time now, but I just heard this talk radio, that if this bill is rammed down our throats by dems and REPUBS alike, many repubs, and possible some dems as well, will leave their parties and register as independents.

So that is the poll question. What will you do if this AMNESTY bill is passed?

I will NOT vote for anyone on either side of the aisle that is for this piece of trash bill.

[Yurt]

I've been thinking this for some time now, but I just heard this talk radio, that if this bill is rammed down our throats by dems and REPUBS alike, many repubs, and possible some dems as well, will leave their parties and register as independents.

So that is the poll question. What will you do if this AMNESTY bill is passed?

There is no option for "independent". I would stay republican though, because the "independent" option at this stage (though my own unwillingness to vote otherwise may contribute, BUT show me a VALID third party...) is not feasible.

I will remain republican, but don't really fit into our poll questions.

[loosecannon]

I'm conservative and will always vote the most conservative candidate.

So you would never vote for GWB or most GOPers?

[loosecannon]

PR, we are all getting sold out regardless.

Take a damned look, both parties are lifting the finger to the people.

They have a completely diff agenda than we do.

I believe all senators are millionaires and the House is about 50/50.

Time to elect "real" cowboys and indians into office.

[Pale Rider]

There is no option for "independent". I would stay republican though, because the "independent" option at this stage (though my own unwillingness to vote otherwise may contribute, BUT show me a VALID third party...) is not feasible.

I will remain republican, but don't really fit into our poll questions.

If your not a dem or repub, then you fit that option. Doesnt matter what else you are. "I am neither dem nor repub" fits you.

It's not rocket science pard. Just vote.

[glockmail]

Well times are changin'. Nowadays the most conservative does NOT mean they're a republican. That's been true for a long time. When I lived in NY I was active within that state's Conservative Party. Many times we endorsed a Democrat over a Republican.

[Doniston]

I've been thinking this for some time now, but I just heard this talk radio, that if this bill is rammed down our throats by dems and REPUBS alike, many repubs, and possible some dems as well, will leave their parties and register as independents.

So that is the poll question. What will you do if this AMNESTY bill is passed? I wish I could beleive the present results of this poll and that it will hold up. Not simply for the immigration bill, but for politics in general.

if so, this country would have a real chance to get back on the straight and narrow.

[Hobbit]

I wish I could beleive the present results of this poll and that it will hold up. Not simply for the immigration bill, but for politics in general.

if so, this country would have a real chance to get back on the straight and narrow.

I swore off both parties not long after the 2004 elections. I'm still far more likely to vote Republican than Democrat, but if the Libertarians can drop the anti-war stance and toughen up on border defense, they'll get my vote, hands down.

[glockmail]

I wish I could beleive the present results of this poll and that it will hold up. Not simply for the immigration bill, but for politics in general.

if so, this country would have a real chance to get back on the straight and narrow. Funny to hear you, as a self-proclaimed liberal, pining for the straight and narrow. Have you looked at where your party is lately? This is not 1945 or 1950.

[glockmail]

I swore off both parties not long after the 2004 elections. I'm still far more likely to vote Republican than Democrat, but if the Libertarians can drop the anti-war stance and toughen up on border defense, they'll get my vote, hands down.
Libertairians have some good ideas, but in general tend to be kooks.

[Mr. P]

Libertairians have some good ideas, but in general tend to be kooks.

I agree that seems to be the problem.

[Pale Rider]

I swore off both parties not long after the 2004 elections. I'm still far more likely to vote Republican than Democrat, but if the Libertarians can drop the anti-war stance and toughen up on border defense, they'll get my vote, hands down.

I'm leaning independent myself. If this amnesty passes, I'll go independent for sure. The republicans will have sold their soul, and sold me out.

[Doniston]

Funny to hear you, as a self-proclaimed liberal, pining for the straight and narrow. Have you looked at where your party is lately? This is not 1945 or 1950.

HEY HEY HEY, I admit to being a Liberal but that isn't a Party. I definitely am NOT a Democrat.

[glockmail]

I agree that seems to be the problem. There used to be (probably still is) a town in Onondaga County, NY that was controlled by a majority of registered Libertarians. It was an investment wasteland, as with no zoning, you'd see a nice old farmhouse next to a gas station next to a trailer home. There is actually a lot of the "no zoning" attitude up there, as well as in many parts of The South, and its very detrimental to property values and investment.

[glockmail]

HEY HEY HEY, I admit to being a Liberal but that isn't a Party. I definitely am NOT a Democrat. Some states have formal Liberal Parties. But if you are registered as a Liberal you are supporting a socialist agenda. Modern liberals have nothing to do with freedom, equality and patriotism. They want goverment solutions for everything, a break down of the American family, income re-distribution and sex with anything, any one, anywhere, at any time. The only freedom that Liberals want is freedom from personal responsibilty.

[Doniston]

Some states have formal Liberal Parties. But if you are registered as a Liberal you are supporting a socialist agenda. Modern liberals have nothing to do with freedom, equality and patriotism. They want goverment solutions for everything, a break down of the American family, income re-distribution and sex with anything, any one, anywhere, at any time. The only freedom that Liberals want is freedom from personal responsibilty. " Now" who's spewing Nonsense??. Check your dictionary.

[TheStripey1]

I've been thinking this for some time now, but I just heard this talk radio, that if this bill is rammed down our throats by dems and REPUBS alike, many repubs, and possible some dems as well, will leave their parties and register as independents.

So that is the poll question. What will you do if this AMNESTY bill is passed?

I'm already an independent. I left the Republican Party because bush forgot about the man whose organization attacked us on 9/11 and invaded Iraq.

:dance:

I oppose the amnesty bill.

[Abbey Marie]

If the amnesty issue can even bring together people on this board, our representatives are really ignoring the will of the people. Shame on them.

[glockmail]

" Now" who's spewing Nonsense??. Check your dictionary. What? Point out anything I wrote that is wrong.

[Doniston]

What? Point out anything I wrote that is wrong. It wasn't wrong, but meerly incomplete. Being liberal is not the same as the liberal party. both are listed below. I will enbolden those descriptions that pertin to me.:


lib·er·al /ˈlɪbərəl, ˈlɪbrəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. (often initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.
8. open-minded or tolerant, esp. free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.
9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: a liberal donor.
10. given freely or abundantly; generous: a liberal donation.
11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule.
12. of, pertaining to, or based on the liberal arts.
13. of, pertaining to, or befitting a freeman.
–noun 14. a person of liberal principles or views, esp. in politics or religion.
15. (often initial capital letter) a member of a liberal party in politics, esp. of the Liberal party in Great Britain.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1325–75; ME < L līberālis of freedom, befitting the free, equiv. to līber free + -ālis -al1]

[glockmail]

......


...1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
.....
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: .

7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.
8. open-minded or tolerant, esp. free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc. ..
11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule.
...
....
.....

As I said before, look around you. None of those are in line with the modern liberal philosophy. For example:

1. Liberals have fought reform of bad policy, such as welfare, and social security, for decades.
4. Liberals support socialist policies, which limit freedoms. Democrats fought civil rights bills from the 1860s to the 1960’s. Robert E. Byrd, a liberal, filibustered the last Civil Rights act. Al Gore sr., another liberal, was also against it.
5. Liberals are now trying to re-institute the Fairness Doctrine, that limits free speech. They have instituted Campaign Finance “Reform” that limits free political speech. A hallmark of liberalism are creation of gun laws that take away the freedom of self defense.
7. Affirmative Action, a liberal policy, is prejudiced against white men. No conservative that I know or respect is a bigot. Robert E. Byrd, a liberal, is a former member of the KKK.
9. Hillary Clinton, a liberal, is completely intolerant of anyone not lock-step with her ideas. Same with many other known liberals: Rosie O’Donell, Alec Baldwin, et al.

[Pale Rider]

I'm already an independent. I left the Republican Party because bush forgot about the man whose organization attacked us on 9/11 and invaded Iraq.

:dance:

I oppose the amnesty bill.

I'm not sure who I'd vote for at this point that is independent, but regardless, I won't vote republican, unless it's Tom Tancredo. I know he opposes this amnesty 100%.

[Doniston]

As I said before, look around you. None of those are in line with the modern liberal philosophy. For example:

1. Liberals have fought reform of bad policy, such as welfare, and social security, for decades.
4. Liberals support socialist policies, which limit freedoms. Democrats fought civil rights bills from the 1860s to the 1960’s. Robert E. Byrd, a liberal, filibustered the last Civil Rights act. Al Gore sr., another liberal, was also against it.
5. Liberals are now trying to re-institute the Fairness Doctrine, that limits free speech. They have instituted Campaign Finance “Reform” that limits free political speech. A hallmark of liberalism are creation of gun laws that take away the freedom of self defense.
7. Affirmative Action, a liberal policy, is prejudiced against white men. No conservative that I know or respect is a bigot. Robert E. Byrd, a liberal, is a former member of the KKK.
9. Hillary Clinton, a liberal, is completely intolerant of anyone not lock-step with her ideas. Same with many other known liberals: Rosie O’Donell, Alec Baldwin, et al.

My point exactly. there is a great deal of difference between being liberal, and being part of the new (modern) liberalism -----as is pointed out in both mine, and your post.

[Doniston]

I'm not sure who I'd vote for at this point that is independent, but regardless, I won't vote republican, unless it's Tom Tancredo. I know he opposes this amnesty 100%. is that the ONLY thing that is important to you? this amnesty???

Face it, whether you (or I )like it or not We are Not going to get rid of 12,000,000 illegals, so there will be some form of amnesty,

A rose by any other name still stinks like a rose.

[glockmail]

My point exactly. there is a great deal of difference between being liberal, and being part of the new (modern) liberalism -----as is pointed out in both mine, and your post. That would be fine, old buddy, except if that were the standard then I would claim to be a liberal, and obviously that is not what I am. Hence the correct standard, that liberalism (and conservatism) are defined by the leaders of thier movement at the current time in history. You know who the leading liberals are, as well as the leading conservatives. Who do align youself more closely to?

[Yurt]

Damn... I clicked the wrong option, I am opposed to the bill....

Sorry to mess the poll up... long day...

[Pale Rider]

That would be fine, old buddy, except if that were the standard then I would claim to be a liberal, and obviously that is not what I am. Hence the correct standard, that liberalism (and conservatism) are defined by the leaders of thier movement at the current time in history. You know who the leading liberals are, as well as the leading conservatives. Who do align youself more closely to?

I would expect donnie has been drinking kool aid with the likes of mickey *fatass liar* moore, teddy *hickup* kennedy, and howie *aaAAaRRRaaAAAaa* dean.

[Doniston]

That would be fine, old buddy, except if that were the standard then I would claim to be a liberal, and obviously that is not what I am. Hence the correct standard, that liberalism (and conservatism) are defined by the leaders of thier movement at the current time in history. You know who the leading liberals are, as well as the leading conservatives. Who do align youself more closely to?

Neither, at the present time it would be an unnamed republican ---- "Surprise"


But a question. you say "IF" that were the standard. which? the ones I said were liberals, or the ones which I said were new liberals?

[Doniston]

I would expect donnie has been drinking kool aid with the likes of mickey *fatass liar* moore, teddy *hickup* kennedy, and howie *aaAAaRRRaaAAAaa* dean. I believe the word you were looking for was "SUSPECT" rather than "Expect" No matter, you would be dead wrong in either case. But that's nothing new for you. (and I have already answered it.)

[glockmail]

.....


But a question. you say "IF" that were the standard. which? the ones I said were liberals, or the ones which I said were new liberals?

The qualities that you bolded the text.

[Doniston]

The qualities that you bolded the text. Then I have to insult you by calling you a liberal--- HEH HEH Those are deinitely liberal traits. (Think about it)

[Abbey Marie]

Damn... I clicked the wrong option, I am opposed to the bill....

Sorry to mess the poll up... long day...

Yurt,
I deleted your vote. You can vote again as you wish.

Abbey

[glockmail]

Then I have to insult you by calling you a liberal--- HEH HEH Those are deinitely liberal traits. (Think about it) I have, at length, and as I demonstrated to you earlier, they are not consistent at all with modern liberals.

[DragonStryk72]

alright, now, I've read up until this everything on this thread, and the fact is that this amnesty bill isn't going to do a single blessed thing. These illegals were willing to break the law to get into this country when the price tag was only an average of $900 american (A large chunk of change for people who make only $1-$2 an hour), and the amnesty bill charges that, basically, the illegals give themselves up (not gonna happen), go back to mexico (really not going to happen), and put up a $5000 fee to get back in legally (do I even need mention how badly it won't happen?).

The threat of illegal immigration can be handled properly in two ways, used in tandem: Go after the businesses that are hiring these illegals, because, let's face, if there is a way to make a quick buck, people are going to chase it. Second, we need to offer up another way of getting in, most hopefully through some form or service to the government/military. For instance, New Orleans, the city of ours that is in ruins as of current. They agree to help with the rebuild (they've shown the will to do tough labor), and in return they get their citizenship, plus wage (won't be much more than minimum wage, but they were making less than that anyhow the old way), or if they agree to help defend this country for four years, a standard term of enlistment, then alright, they're in.

However, you will never hear this kind of a debate in our government at this time, because they are too busy fighting each other because of party lines, and as well, because both sides are far too cozy with business, meaning that they are simply not going to do what is really needed, because to do so would hurt them. This is going to continue until we, the people, stop putting them back into office simply because they are a liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat, and start holding them to what it is they stand, and do not stand for.

I am Libertarian personally, but I do understand that war is simply a necessity, because there are unscrupulous people out there that will not listen to reason, or worse, take your reason as weakness, and exploit it. War is, however, a failure of diplomacy, no matter which sides, or sides, failed.

[Doniston]

I have, at length, and as I demonstrated to you earlier, they are not consistent at all with modern liberals. So neither of us are liberals, but I am none the less a liberal. Are you?

That is what it is all about-- Ok, nuf said on this subject.:) ;):dance: