View Full Version : Paul Ryan and Soylent Green
gabosaurus
08-20-2012, 11:21 AM
I was reading more about Ryan's plans for Medicare and it made me think of the movie "Soylent Green."
Which is a great movie. If you haven't seen it, please do so.
http://images.dailykos.com/i/user/2722/TMW2011_04_13_550.jpg
jimnyc
08-20-2012, 11:44 AM
Liberals respond to a reasonable approach to Medicare with cartoons and try to ignore the 700 billion Obama stole from the program. And generally, cartoons are meant to be a little funny, and when political cartoons, at least have some truth to them. Anyone posting that cartoon obviously only listens to punchlines from liberal pundits and hasn't truly looked at Ryan's plan. Either that or you meant this to be in the humor forum.
Well, this explains a lot. I guess we now know for certain that Gabs gets her political accumen from comic books and cartoons.
Anton Chigurh
08-20-2012, 12:26 PM
Utter nonsense.
Voted4Reagan
08-20-2012, 12:47 PM
Leave it to Gabby to pull an OBSCURE comic as a basis of fact or attempt to use it as one...
From Wikipedia:
"This Modern World is a weekly satirical comic strip by cartoonist and political commentator Tom Tomorrow (real name Dan Perkins) that covers current events from a liberal point of view. Tomorrow also runs a weblog that informs readers about stories of interest, often presented as a follow up to his cartoons. This Modern World appears mainly in alternative weekly newspapers.
(Alternative Papers.....in other words.... the ONES NOBODY WITH ANY INTELLIGENCE BOTHERS TO READ!"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Modern_World
What a Biased Liberal Hack piece of Tripe...
Kathianne
08-20-2012, 01:38 PM
Taking 716B from Medicare and setting up a 15 member panel to determine treatment is moving towards Soylent Green scenario. Saving Medicare for the future? Not so much.
logroller
08-20-2012, 01:46 PM
Liberals respond to a reasonable approach to Medicare with cartoons and try to ignore the 700 billion Obama stole from the program. And generally, cartoons are meant to be a little funny, and when political cartoons, at least have some truth to them. Anyone posting that cartoon obviously only listens to punchlines from liberal pundits and hasn't truly looked at Ryan's plan. Either that or you meant this to be in the humor forum.
Where's rsr for a rebuttal cartoon?
jimnyc
08-20-2012, 04:56 PM
Where's rsr for a rebuttal cartoon?
Why ya asking me? A general consensus might get you more answers. :)
gabosaurus
08-20-2012, 05:08 PM
I am surprised that none of you see the similarities.
Tell me how the Ryan budget and plan for "revising" Medicare benefits the elderly and those who survive on a fixed budget. Tell me how these "vouchers" will help an elderly person who suffers a catastrophic illness. How does it benefit the older people who paid into Social Security and Medicare for 40 years or so and expect to be taken care of in retirement?
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-801281
Mr. P
08-20-2012, 05:13 PM
Taking 716B from Medicare and setting up a 15 member panel to determine treatment is moving towards Soylent Green scenario. Saving Medicare for the future? Not so much.
Baffles the hell outta me that so many folks just don't get this.
Nukeman
08-20-2012, 05:16 PM
I am surprised that none of you see the similarities.
Tell me how the Ryan budget and plan for "revising" Medicare benefits the elderly and those who survive on a fixed budget. Tell me how these "vouchers" will help an elderly person who suffers a catastrophic illness. How does it benefit the older people who paid into Social Security and Medicare for 40 years or so and expect to be taken care of in retirement?
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-801281
Guess what gabs I have payed into that system for almost 30 years and I won't get to see a F-ing dime of it due to the corrupt policies of ALL the govt past who keep dipping into that magic bucket of money that keeps filling back up:rolleyes:.. Its not just the "OLDER" people that would have issues. Tell ya what you find a way for me to get every dime I payed in back with a modest 4% interest for the hpast 30 years and guarantee I will NEVER pay again and I won't need to take a dime of MY MONEY back from them!!!
That being said IT NEEDS FIXED!!!!! The status quo is NOT working and will not continue to work... There are some very simple ways to cut health care cost and bring them down to realistic levels but it take the govt stopping their bullshit practices!!!!
gabosaurus
08-20-2012, 05:22 PM
Excellent points Nukeman. I would hope we can find a proper balance between Obamacare (which I have always opposed for being totally unworkable) and the Ryan plan which almost destroys it.
Medicare and Social Security are both bloated and need to be pared to size. Trouble is, politicians (both sides) have spent too much time attaching it to their pet projects and aren't willing to back down.
sundaydriver
08-20-2012, 06:49 PM
10,000 rediculous cartoons by your most prolific poster and nothing but thanks at the botttom from the same fucking people that had a negative comment here about a cartoon from the "reverse" view! :gay:
jimnyc
08-20-2012, 07:05 PM
and the Ryan plan which almost destroys it.
Alright, Gabs, for once lets get beyond the one liners, or the hit and run posts to never be heard from again. Instead of one sentence - how about a little time spent in a post, and be specific, and show us how Ryan's plan will destroy anything. Make the links for us, make your case!
Anton Chigurh
08-20-2012, 07:25 PM
10,000 rediculous cartoons by your most prolific poster and nothing but thanks at the botttom from the same fucking people that had a negative comment here about a cartoon from the "reverse" view! :gay:I wonder if some truth along with some humor had anything to do with that?
Link or it never happened.
NightTrain
08-20-2012, 08:16 PM
Alright, Gabs, for once lets get beyond the one liners, or the hit and run posts to never be heard from again. Instead of one sentence - how about a little time spent in a post, and be specific, and show us how Ryan's plan will destroy anything. Make the links for us, make your case!
Good luck with that.
The usual bet?
gabosaurus
08-20-2012, 08:58 PM
How about an entire, well written article?
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lazarus-20120821,0,4684097,full.column
Many seniors are rightly concerned that Ryan, the conservative congressman tapped by Mitt Romney (http://www.latimes.com/topic/politics/government/mitt-romney-PEPLT007376.topic) as his vice presidential running mate, has proposed a plan that could result in higher out-of-pocket expenses for Medicare coverage.
But disabled people could be in for an even bigger shock.
"People with disabilities are among the most vulnerable of the Medicare population," said Tricia Neuman, senior vice president of the nonprofit, nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation. "They have chronic conditions that require ongoing care, and, in many cases, they have relatively low incomes."
In other words, Ryan's plan could entail higher healthcare costs for people in the worst position to deal with them.
You see, if you are wealthy, you don't have to worry about medicare costs. You don't need assistance paying your bills.
Or if you are a politician whose health care coverage is completely paid for by the government.
But what about people who have chronic health problems, like the disabled and those with cancer or other ailments? Suppose one of your parents or other loved ones has cancer, and you can't afford to pick up their costs? Do you just allow them to die?
In "Soylent Green," there are people who get paid to die. Which is a good deal if you can't afford to live. Is that what we are coming to?
fj1200
08-20-2012, 09:40 PM
You see, if you are wealthy, you don't have to worry about medicare costs. You don't need assistance paying your bills.
You've already agreed that MC is unsustainable as it stands and it also has no effect for those 55? and older so what is the resistance on changing MC into a program that is sustainable and has people making their own HC choices? Do you think that people are too stupid to plan for their own retirement and HC needs? It's unfortunate that we've so coddled the middle class into a group that has to rely on a government program.
gabosaurus
08-20-2012, 10:20 PM
Most people who make health care plans assume that the money they paid into Medicare throughout their working lives will be available to help them when they become older and more infirm. Does anyone plan to have cancer, failing eyesight or dementia?
I don't think anyone is being "coddled." They are expecting a return for their investment. You obviously believe it is OK to strip the rug from under those who can least afford it.
Anton Chigurh
08-20-2012, 10:41 PM
How about an entire, well written article?
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lazarus-20120821,0,4684097,full.column
You see, if you are wealthy, you don't have to worry about medicare costs. You don't need assistance paying your bills.
Or if you are a politician whose health care coverage is completely paid for by the government.
But what about people who have chronic health problems, like the disabled and those with cancer or other ailments? Suppose one of your parents or other loved ones has cancer, and you can't afford to pick up their costs? Do you just allow them to die?
In "Soylent Green," there are people who get paid to die. Which is a good deal if you can't afford to live. Is that what we are coming to?NO ONE currently over the age of 55 will see any difference at all with the Ryan plan. Those of us under 55 will have a even better medicare - one that will also stay solvent.
You really think the LA Times is going to play this straight? Of course you know better than that.
gabosaurus
08-20-2012, 11:14 PM
You really think the LA Times is going to play this straight? Of course you know better than that.
:rolleyes: Of course. I should have gotten an opinion from Fox or the Moonie Times :rolleyes:
Kathianne
08-21-2012, 06:03 AM
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765598190/Ryans-Medicare-plan-might-work-a-study-says.html
Robert J. Samuelson: Ryan's Medicare plan might work, a study saysOverlooked in the furor surrounding Paul Ryan's Medicare proposal — a plan, it should be recalled, that wouldn't start until 2023 and even then would affect only new beneficiaries — is a just-published study in The Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) suggesting that, well, Ryan might be right. The study finds that a voucher-type system might noticeably reduce costs compared to "traditional" fee-for-service Medicare. Three Harvard economists did the study, including one prominent supporter of President Obama's health care overhaul...
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765598190/Ryans-Medicare-plan-might-work-a-study-says.html
Oh sure, confuse the issue with facts!
taft2012
08-21-2012, 06:37 AM
I am surprised that none of you see the similarities.
Tell me how the Ryan budget and plan for "revising" Medicare benefits the elderly and those who survive on a fixed budget. Tell me how these "vouchers" will help an elderly person who suffers a catastrophic illness. How does it benefit the older people who paid into Social Security and Medicare for 40 years or so and expect to be taken care of in retirement?
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-801281
That's easy.
The current system only has 11 years of solvency left, after which, there will be nothing for anybody. Particularly when factoring in the $700 plus billions Obama stripped from the funding to kickstart Obamacare.
The Ryan plan will ensure there is *something* there in the future for people currently paying into the system, as opposed to the nothing that would be there if Obama and his status quo sidekicks get their way.
fj1200
08-21-2012, 07:45 AM
Most people who make health care plans assume that the money they paid into Medicare throughout their working lives will be available to help them when they become older and more infirm. Does anyone plan to have cancer, failing eyesight or dementia?
I don't think anyone is being "coddled." They are expecting a return for their investment. You obviously believe it is OK to strip the rug from under those who can least afford it.
Does the Ryan plan make private insurance illegal? You are beyond silly in describing MC as an "investment," it is a government program that forces the young to pay for the HC of the old. I define "coddling" as needlessly providing a service to people who are more than capable of making plans for themselves. It is unfortunate that our elected officials and regulators have been completely neglectful in creating a program that makes promises that it is incapable of meeting.
And please, don't tell me what I believe especially when you have no idea.
jimnyc
08-21-2012, 08:20 AM
How about an entire, well written article?
In other words, you can only repeat what you read or hear. This is exactly why I asked you to write out yourself how this plan was going to be the end of the world for Medicare, or anything else. You likely don't even understand his economical plans or Medicare plan, hence the need to seek out answers/replies from other people. So I suppose the "for once" and "make the links, make your case" will have to wait for another day, a long time away likely. Because other than one liners that you think add substance, all you have is other people speaking for you, and you believe them as if its gospel without reading the actual plans and understanding for yourself.
jimnyc
08-21-2012, 08:26 AM
:rolleyes: Of course. I should have gotten an opinion from Fox or the Moonie Times :rolleyes:
No, you should have replied as asked, with facts from the very plans backing up your opinion. All you did was bring in more opinions from another source. I would ask the same of them, to take out actual lines from the plans and make a case, instead they rely upon scary talking points that just don't hold water. From what I can see, not a single bit of actual wording from plans exist in your posts or in that article. It's an article full of regurgitated words from other people who don't agree with his plan. That's not exactly a fact finding mission and did zilch in regards to what I asked for. So you failed on 2 separate parts. Not only couldn't you backup your own words, you couldn't even get an article to do it for you.
Voted4Reagan
08-21-2012, 09:04 AM
No, you should have replied as asked, with facts from the very plans backing up your opinion. All you did was bring in more opinions from another source. I would ask the same of them, to take out actual lines from the plans and make a case, instead they rely upon scary talking points that just don't hold water. From what I can see, not a single bit of actual wording from plans exist in your posts or in that article. It's an article full of regurgitated words from other people who don't agree with his plan. That's not exactly a fact finding mission and did zilch in regards to what I asked for. So you failed on 2 separate parts. Not only couldn't you backup your own words, you couldn't even get an article to do it for you.
Same old Liberal playbook from the last 40years...
According to the Alinsky Liberal Playbook, ALL CONSERVATIVES want to:
Starve Children
Push Grandma down the hill in her Wheelchair
Kill the Poor...
When will Liberals realize that the lies of 40years ago no longer work... that people see it as rhetoric and outright fabrication.
I hope they keep doing it.... it shows desperation... and Fear...
The public is starting to see through the lies
Anton Chigurh
08-21-2012, 09:40 AM
:rolleyes: Of course. I should have gotten an opinion from Fox or the Moonie Times :rolleyes::lol::lame2:
Voted4Reagan
08-21-2012, 11:02 AM
:lol::lame2:
Another Gabby Bailout......
It's fun to watch her disappear every time she's confronted with a challenge to her unsubstantiated claims...
I am surprised that none of you see the similarities.
Tell me how the Ryan budget and plan for "revising" Medicare benefits the elderly and those who survive on a fixed budget. Tell me how these "vouchers" will help an elderly person who suffers a catastrophic illness. How does it benefit the older people who paid into Social Security and Medicare for 40 years or so and expect to be taken care of in retirement?
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-801281
Well except that nobody 55 and under will be affected......why don't you show me where Ryan is going to do away with Medicare ObieWanUneduated?
Gabby?
Don't you want to show how RYan is going to kill Medicare?
Poor Gabby ......just not smart enough for a real debate.
Your mama must be SO proud.......
NightTrain
08-21-2012, 10:39 PM
Poor Gabby ......just not smart enough for a real debate.
Your mama must be SO proud.......
Well, in her defense... she DID receive TWO degrees from So Cal.
It's very prestigious, you know!
NightTrain
08-21-2012, 10:44 PM
How about arf grrrwwwlll arf arf!?
Many seniors are rightly concerned that Ryan, the conservative congressman tapped by Mitt Romney (http://www.latimes.com/topic/politics/government/mitt-romney-PEPLT007376.topic) as his vice presidential running mate, has proposed a plan that could result in higher out-of-pocket expenses for Medicare coverage.
But disabled people could be in for an even bigger shock.
"People with disabilities are among the most vulnerable of the Medicare population," said Tricia Neuman, senior vice president of the nonprofit, nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation. "They have chronic conditions that require ongoing care, and, in many cases, they have relatively low incomes."
In other words, Ryan's plan could entail higher healthcare costs for people in the worst position to deal with them.
Wow! That's some ace reporting and some concrete journalism. Attagirl.
Well, in her defense... she DID receive TWO degrees from So Cal.
It's very prestigious, you know!
Doesn't it comfort you knowing it is teaching young children to be stupid?
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