Ennahdha Founder Attacked at “Tolerance in Islam” Conference

[jimnyc]

The irony would be funny if this man wasn't assaulted and injured. This reminds me of the global warming conference that was canceled due to a snowstorm. But at least no one was attacked there.


Yesterday, Abdelfatah Mourou, a prominent Tunisian Islamist figure, was hospitalized after he was attacked by an attendee of a conference entitled, Tolerance in Islam, which he was heading in Kairouan.

The assailant struck Mourou in the head with what appeared to be a water glass following a dispute. Mourou passed out and was taken to the hospital, where he was given five stitches in the forehead.

Mourou, who is one of the founding members of Tunisia’s eminent Islamist Ennahdha party, was chairing the conference with Ridha Belhaj, the head of the ultra-conservative Hizb-ut-Tahrir party, and Youssef Seddik, a well-known Tunisian philosopher.

“Certain people intervened, and tried to force Youssef Seddik to leave. They started insulting him, claiming that he said bad things about Sayida Ai’cha – the wife of the prophet. I tried to convince those people that this is not true and that it was not Seddik who said that. I was there, and, on the contrary, Seddik tried to defend her,” Mourou explained in an interview with Tunisian radio station Shems FM

http://www.tunisia-live.net/2012/08/06/islamist-leader-attacked-at-tolerance-in-islam-conference/

[jimnyc]

Speaking of Tunisia, a country of over 10 million. I read an article earlier when I was on other Tunisian related sites reading about terror... They are apparently drafting a new constitution for their country, and in it, they are wording that women are "complimentary" to men. Can you imagine the outrage if someone in our government here even suggested it, let alone tried to implement it? I do see some strides here and there for Muslim women, but not nearly enough. I wonder, where did all of this emanate from? Why does Islam and so many places hold women in less regard than the men? Why can't they vote, and drive & be educated in some places?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Speaking of Tunisia, a country of over 10 million. I read an article earlier when I was on other Tunisian related sites reading about terror... They are apparently drafting a new constitution for their country, and in it, they are wording that women are "complimentary" to men. Can you imagine the outrage if someone in our government here even suggested it, let alone tried to implement it? I do see some strides here and there for Muslim women, but not nearly enough. I wonder, where did all of this emanate from? Why does Islam and so many places hold women in less regard than the men? Why can't they vote, and drive & be educated in some places?

The muslim men are insecure, inferior and brutal so naturally they need a handy target to vent their hate upon..
Camels dont do well and may kick back too hard so they went with the weaker available option=women!
Besides , they feel like such powerful heroes when abusing women..-Tyr

[aboutime]

I know some will insist such a thing does not exist. But. Reading the title made me laugh when I got to the part that said "Tolerance in Islam". That's just as funny as the tolerance Obama promised long ago. But we knew it wasn't true. So to question it is like an OXYMORON, eating itself.

[jafar00]

Why does Islam and so many places hold women in less regard than the men? Why can't they vote, and drive & be educated in some places?

Islam gave women the right to vote 1400 years ago. When did they get it in the US? 1920's?
Driving and education likewise. There are many reports from the early days before and after the Prophet (saw) died. One of his wives Aisha for example rode a camel (that's driving) and is revered as a great teacher of women.

Just because stupid laws like banning women for driving or from an education are passed in some Islamic countries doesn't mean those laws came from Sharia at all. In fact those laws would go against Sharia.

Of course, don't let me contradict such scholarly sites like religionofpeace or the blaze with their clear agendas and stuff ;)

[jimnyc]

Islam gave women the right to vote 1400 years ago. When did they get it in the US? 1920's?
Driving and education likewise. There are many reports from the early days before and after the Prophet (saw) died. One of his wives Aisha for example rode a camel (that's driving) and is revered as a great teacher of women.

Just because stupid laws like banning women for driving or from an education are passed in some Islamic countries doesn't mean those laws came from Sharia at all. In fact those laws would go against Sharia.

Of course, don't let me contradict such scholarly sites like religionofpeace or the blaze with their clear agendas and stuff ;)

And after all that, it doesn't change the fact that Tunisia IS in fact trying to alter their constitution to reflect women as 2nd class citizens. In quite a few countries women cannot vote and cannot drive. So as to my original comments:


Why does Islam and so many places hold women in less regard than the men? Why can't they vote, and drive & be educated in some places?

I'm not talking of every last country, but quite a few of them, and the proof has been posted. Juts because it may be different in Egypt, or Algeria, doesn't mean they don't do these things in Saudi Arabia still.

[abso]

The muslim men are insecure, inferior and brutal so naturally they need a handy target to vent their hate upon..
Camels dont do well and may kick back too hard so they went with the weaker available option=women!
Besides , they feel like such powerful heroes when abusing women..-Tyr

i am a Muslim man, you think what you just said applies to me ?

[jimnyc]

i am a Muslim man, you think what you just said applies to me ?

From the length of time I've known you and from all of the posts you have made, I would say no. But all members are different and sometimes new members here won't have that level of trust and belief that takes time to develop.

[hjmick]

I think someone is trying a little too hard...

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

i am a Muslim man, you think what you just said applies to me ?

I surely do not know because I do not know you. You may be one of the honorable ones for all I know. Those that reject the hate and embrace the good. I first thought Jafar was such a man but his posts reveals that he excuses too much of the hate and murder that radical Islamists engage in.-Tyr

[abso]

From the length of time I've known you and from all of the posts you have made, I would say no. But all members are different and sometimes new members here won't have that level of trust and belief that takes time to develop.

thanks for your trust Jim ;), i know you don't think that i am like that, i was just asking Tyr-Ziu Saxnot, you already know me Jim, you know that i don't like when people judge others who they have never met and when they say things that even kids won't say, i think that is a silly way to debate or to discuss anything, and silly posts irritate me ;).

about the time needed for trust, i agree with you, but if Tyr-Ziu Saxnot needs time to trust each muslim in the world to correct his idea about him, then he would never have enough time in his life to do that, he should just stick with the people he knows and never to judge someone he have never met or talked to, am i right ?

and about (silly), that is not an insult, that is freedom of speech :thumb:

[abso]

I surely do not know because I do not know you. You may be one of the honorable ones for all I know. Those that reject the hate and embrace the good. I first thought Jafar was such a man but his posts reveals that he excuses too much of the hate and murder that radical Islamists engage in.-Tyr

so you don't know me, but i remember you saying "All Muslim Men", am i right ?, have you known all Muslim men to make such an opinion about them ?

but its a good start that you said that you don't know what i am, because you don't know me, thanks for that ....

[Voted4Reagan]

Islam gave women the right to vote 1400 years ago. When did they get it in the US? 1920's?
Driving and education likewise.

BullShit.... If they had it it was quickly taken away...

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-09-26/king-abdullah-gives-saudi-women-right-to-vote-for-first-time.html

Guess You were off by 1399 years

[jafar00]

BullShit.... If they had it it was quickly taken away...

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-09-26/king-abdullah-gives-saudi-women-right-to-vote-for-first-time.html

Guess You were off by 1399 years



Saudi Arabia is a wahhabi country. They left mainstream Islam behind years ago.
And the article above did specify that it is the first time in "modern" history.

[jimnyc]

Jafar, you know a lot about Egypt. When did the women there get equal rights to men?

[aboutime]

Jafar, you know a lot about Egypt. When did the women there get equal rights to men?


jafar will need to consult with his Muslim Brotherhood members before answering that question HONESTLY jimnyc.

It's not a comfortable kind of question to answer these days for anyone who must first deny it.

[abso]

Jafar, you know a lot about Egypt. When did the women there get equal rights to men?

i don't know which rights you are talking about, but in modern Egypt, they got the right to vote in 1956.

[jimnyc]

i don't know which rights you are talking about, but in modern Egypt, they got the right to vote in 1956.

My question was tongue in cheek to Jafar, who can find no fault within Islam and defends an awful lot of bad things. My response to him was going to be - if Egyptian women have equal rights, do 80+% percentage of the men in Egypt claim to have been abused by the women? And have 50+% of the women in Egypt admitted to have abused men?

I don't think I can consider women to be on equal footing as men in Egypt. But they are better in many other departments than Iran and Saudi Arabia. But sadly, the only place that I can think of where women have equal treatment under the law, is in America. The American government, so often criticized by Muslims worldwide, offer more freedom and equality to Muslim women than any Islamic country.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

i am a Muslim man, you think what you just said applies to me ?


so you don't know me, but i remember you saying "All Muslim Men", am i right ?, have you known all Muslim men to make such an opinion about them ?



The muslim men are insecure, inferior and brutal so naturally they need a handy target to vent their hate upon..
Camels dont do well and may kick back too hard so they went with the weaker available option=women!
Besides , they feel like such powerful heroes when abusing women..-Tyr


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abso read my quote again. I said "The muslim men", . I did not say -ALL- muslim men. Perhaps I should have used the word-Some.. However since it's my opinion that it applies to the majority I did not make the distinction. -Tyr

[Kathianne]

I think someone is trying a little too hard...

Should have quoted someone. Really. Flow would be better.

[Kathianne]

thanks for your trust Jim ;), i know you don't think that i am like that, i was just asking Tyr-Ziu Saxnot, you already know me Jim, you know that i don't like when people judge others who they have never met and when they say things that even kids won't say, i think that is a silly way to debate or to discuss anything, and silly posts irritate me ;).

about the time needed for trust, i agree with you, but if Tyr-Ziu Saxnot needs time to trust each muslim in the world to correct his idea about him, then he would never have enough time in his life to do that, he should just stick with the people he knows and never to judge someone he have never met or talked to, am i right ?

and about (silly), that is not an insult, that is freedom of speech :thumb:

Abso, I'm with Jim. I don't think you fit the stereotype, the problem is that too many support the stereotype, whether acting on it or not. Thus we find the support for those that claim Islam demands stonings, acid in face, etc.. Be part of solution or the problem.

[abso]

My question was tongue in cheek to Jafar, who can find no fault within Islam and defends an awful lot of bad things. My response to him was going to be - if Egyptian women have equal rights, do 80+% percentage of the men in Egypt claim to have been abused by the women? And have 50+% of the women in Egypt admitted to have abused men?

I don't think I can consider women to be on equal footing as men in Egypt. But they are better in many other departments than Iran and Saudi Arabia. But sadly, the only place that I can think of where women have equal treatment under the law, is in America. The American government, so often criticized by Muslims worldwide, offer more freedom and equality to Muslim women than any Islamic country.

although i agree with you that many women are abused in Egypt, but in Egypt there are laws against abuse, its not Islam fault if most women never complain when they are abused, we can't help them if they don't ask for help in the first place, any woman in Egypt can ask for divorce anytime she want, and she can file a complaint in the nearest police station whenever she get abused and the husband will be sent to jail for 6 months up to 3 years, she can also call the abuse hotline, which is dedicated for women or children abuse, then a social worker will be sent to resolve the problem and will call the police if necessary, there is a court called family court dedicated to this problems, all the woman have to do is to just go there !!!

so if a woman who gets abused never ask for divorce or file a complaint or even call the hotline, then how can we help her !!!

women who just accept the abuse are the ones who should blame themselves for what happens to them, allowing the misdeeds is in some way similar to doing them.

in Egypt we have a saying: "The one who stand silent without speaking the truth is a silent devil".

of course i am not saying that women are devils, but they should speak up, they should stop being afraid, they have rights and they should claim them, not just waste them then only speak about the truth in street polls.

[abso]

Abso, I'm with Jim. I don't think you fit the stereotype, the problem is that too many support the stereotype, whether acting on it or not. Thus we find the support for those that claim Islam demands stonings, acid in face, etc.. Be part of solution or the problem.

the problem is that for me to be part of the solution i have to face the problem first, i have never seen a woman being abused in front of me, i promise you that when i do see a woman getting abused in front of me or when a woman complains to me about her husband's abuse, i will take an action, but until then i can't be a part of the solution nor the problem.

even in america, you can't send a man to jail for abusing his wife if she never complains, right ?

[Kathianne]

the problem is that for me to be part of the solution i have to face the problem first, i have never seen a woman being abused in front of me, i promise you that when i do see a woman getting abused in front of me or when a woman complains to me about her husband's abuse, i will take an action, but until then i can't be a part of the solution nor the problem.

even in america, you can't send a man to jail for abusing his wife if she never complains, right ?

I beg to differ. My parents knew wrong when faced with it, for many years they did nothing, other than paying lip service. Then MLK Jr was assassinated. They took a stand at that point, late in the game might have been, but stand they took.

[Kathianne]

the problem is that for me to be part of the solution i have to face the problem first, i have never seen a woman being abused in front of me, i promise you that when i do see a woman getting abused in front of me or when a woman complains to me about her husband's abuse, i will take an action, but until then i can't be a part of the solution nor the problem.

even in america, you can't send a man to jail for abusing his wife if she never complains, right ?

Actually the 'state can.' If there is enough proof.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

the problem is that for me to be part of the solution i have to face the problem first, i have never seen a woman being abused in front of me, i promise you that when i do see a woman getting abused in front of me or when a woman complains to me about her husband's abuse, i will take an action, but until then i can't be a part of the solution nor the problem.

even in america, you can't send a man to jail for abusing his wife if she never complains, right ?

You challenged my comment , I replied explaining yet you ignore that reply . Seems to me that you , much like Jafar, choose to ignore that which you do not want to answer. I've seen that convenient tactic more times than Carter has little pills! -Tyr

[Kathianne]

the problem is that for me to be part of the solution i have to face the problem first, i have never seen a woman being abused in front of me, i promise you that when i do see a woman getting abused in front of me or when a woman complains to me about her husband's abuse, i will take an action, but until then i can't be a part of the solution nor the problem.

even in america, you can't send a man to jail for abusing his wife if she never complains, right ?

I've never seen a gun fired in anger. Actually, I've never seen a gun fired live. I'm in Chicago area and sister of policeman. Not once.

[abso]

You challenged my comment , I replied explaining yet you ignore that reply . Seems to me that you , much like Jafar, choose to ignore that which you do not want to answer. I've seen that convenient tactic more times than Carter has little pills! -Tyr

again you assume something without knowing :D

i haven't seen your reply, this isn't Facebook, i don't just get notification for comments on my posts.

i am used to opening the thread, then scrolling down to the last post, that's all...

[abso]

Actually the 'state can.' If there is enough proof.

i am nearly sure that the state can't if the woman doesn't complain even if the woman is abused right in front of the police station ...

[abso]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abso read my quote again. I said "The muslim men", . I did not say -ALL- muslim men. Perhaps I should have used the word-Some.. However since it's my opinion that it applies to the majority I did not make the distinction. -Tyr

first, sorry for not noticing your reply, now, let me ask you this, how many Muslim men have you known in your real life ?

[Kathianne]

i am nearly sure that the state can't if the woman doesn't complain even if the woman is abused right in front of the police station ...

The state can. If they have enough information/proof of abuse, they may proceed without her filing. that's the beauty of our system. It's not often and it's not easy, but it is possible.

[avatar4321]

Speaking of Tunisia, a country of over 10 million. I read an article earlier when I was on other Tunisian related sites reading about terror... They are apparently drafting a new constitution for their country, and in it, they are wording that women are "complimentary" to men. Can you imagine the outrage if someone in our government here even suggested it, let alone tried to implement it? I do see some strides here and there for Muslim women, but not nearly enough. I wonder, where did all of this emanate from? Why does Islam and so many places hold women in less regard than the men? Why can't they vote, and drive & be educated in some places?

Yeah, I can definitely imagine the outrage. Which is s a shame because women are complementary to men and men are complementary to women. It's completely true. We are two halves of a whole.

Not really sure how it's derrogatory

[abso]

The state can. If they have enough information/proof of abuse, they may proceed without her filing. that's the beauty of our system. It's not often and it's not easy, but it is possible.

i think the state can do that if the father abuse his children, in that case the state will act as the guardian of the children and will proceed with the lawsuit, but for a woman who is responsible for herself, none can file a lawsuit for an action that she is not complaining about, isn't that her freedom to accept abuse and allow it ?

[Kathianne]

i think the state can do that if the father abuse his children, in that case the state will act as the guardian of the children and will proceed with the lawsuit, but for a woman who is responsible for herself, none can file a lawsuit for an action that she is not complaining about, isn't that her freedom to accept abuse and allow it ?

Then you'd be wrong in your thinking. A woman can show up at a hospital with bruises and what not, get treatment. The hospital will document the whatnot. If a case can be made against an individual, regardless of the will of the woman, (or man/or child), it will be.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

first, sorry for not noticing your reply, now, let me ask you this, how many Muslim men have you known in your real life ?

A few when I was a much younger man. Two of which where honorable by any definition of the word. The others I never bothered to get to know well after seeing some things I didnt like. Its now that I've researched Islam and its violence for a few years that I've changed my mind of it's true character. Reading Churchill's comments years back on Islam is what set me to looking into it more deeply.-Tyr

[jafar00]

You challenged my comment , I replied explaining yet you ignore that reply . Seems to me that you , much like Jafar, choose to ignore that which you do not want to answer. I've seen that convenient tactic more times than Carter has little pills! -Tyr

How can you reject the testimony of people who have had direct experience with what you are parroting from websites with clear agendas of hate against Arabs and Muslims?


the problem is that for me to be part of the solution i have to face the problem first, i have never seen a woman being abused in front of me, i promise you that when i do see a woman getting abused in front of me or when a woman complains to me about her husband's abuse, i will take an action, but until then i can't be a part of the solution nor the problem.

even in america, you can't send a man to jail for abusing his wife if she never complains, right ?

I have also never heard of a woman being abused in Egypt or elsewhere in my experience thought I am sure it does happen. Just like I could say that there is widespread abuse against women in USA that also goes unreported.

Bad people will be bad no matter where they are.

[jimnyc]

How can you reject the testimony of people who have had direct experience with what you are parroting from websites with clear agendas of hate against Arabs and Muslims?

Which specific site are you speaking of that has an agenda of hate? I don't see any in this thread, but if you are speaking of the often dismissed religionofpeace.com... Nevermind their little pictures and thoughts, it's the statistics gathering that I follow on their site. And by far and large, they have an extremely extensive list of Muslims attacking others for various reasons. Call them hate all you want but it sure sounds as an easy way of dismissing the facts they present.


I have also never heard of a woman being abused in Egypt or elsewhere in my experience thought I am sure it does happen. Just like I could say that there is widespread abuse against women in USA that also goes unreported.

Bad people will be bad no matter where they are.

Then you aren't looking or ignoring what happens. The State Department, International Red Cross and Egyptian women themselves account for the stats. Over 80% of Egyptian women claim to have been abused by men. Over 50% of the men there admit to have had abused a woman. This stuff is from impeccable sources, and I'm sorry, happens in Egypt and cannot be disputed. Unless there are other countries where a shitload of stuff goes unreported, that percentage is perhaps the worst in the world.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

How can you reject the testimony of people who have had direct experience with what you are parroting from websites with clear agendas of hate against Arabs and Muslims?


I place far, far , far more importance on people actually being mutilated and murdered than I do on muslims defending thier religion by supposedly condemning such acts and declaring such deeds to be lies! Too much evidence to support the truth of the matter for me to be impressed by big talk and fancy denials.
Big talk dont mean squat!-Tyr

[jafar00]

Which specific site are you speaking of that has an agenda of hate? I don't see any in this thread, but if you are speaking of the often dismissed religionofpeace.com... Nevermind their little pictures and thoughts, it's the statistics gathering that I follow on their site. And by far and large, they have an extremely extensive list of Muslims attacking others for various reasons. Call them hate all you want but it sure sounds as an easy way of dismissing the facts they present.



Then you aren't looking or ignoring what happens. The State Department, International Red Cross and Egyptian women themselves account for the stats. Over 80% of Egyptian women claim to have been abused by men. Over 50% of the men there admit to have had abused a woman. This stuff is from impeccable sources, and I'm sorry, happens in Egypt and cannot be disputed. Unless there are other countries where a shitload of stuff goes unreported, that percentage is perhaps the worst in the world.


I place far, far , far more importance on people actually being mutilated and murdered than I do on muslims defending thier religion by supposedly condemning such acts and declaring such deeds to be lies! Too much evidence to support the truth of the matter for me to be impressed by big talk and fancy denials.
Big talk dont mean squat!-Tyr

Why don't you two compare your stats against stats for USA, Europe and the non Islamic parts of Asia then get back to ou and your favourite hate site are making out like only Muslims do the bad stuff.

[jimnyc]

Why don't you two compare your stats against stats for USA, Europe and the non Islamic parts of Asia then get back to ou and your favourite hate site are making out like only Muslims do the bad stuff.

I never said ONLY muslims do bad stuff, but the stats in the USA, or ANY country for that matter, don't come remotely close to the percentage of women abused in Egypt. Why you would excuse that is beyond me. As for the website ROP, I wouldn't call it my "favorite" site. And yep, bad things happen all over the world. But just like my opening sentence, the percentage of Muslim attacks based on their religion are ten fold more than any other attacks based on religion. Again, it's easier for you to just label it a hate site than actually prove any of the statistics wrong, which you can't, so you try and dismiss it in the hopes it will disappear.

[jafar00]

I never said ONLY muslims do bad stuff, but the stats in the USA, or ANY country for that matter, don't come remotely close to the percentage of women abused in Egypt. Why you would excuse that is beyond me. As for the website ROP, I wouldn't call it my "favorite" site. And yep, bad things happen all over the world. But just like my opening sentence, the percentage of Muslim attacks based on their religion are ten fold more than any other attacks based on religion. Again, it's easier for you to just label it a hate site than actually prove any of the statistics wrong, which you can't, so you try and dismiss it in the hopes it will disappear.

I could also dismiss your surveys. Maybe they asked only abused women? The statistics from my perspective are way different.

[jimnyc]

I could also dismiss your surveys. Maybe they asked only abused women? The statistics from my perspective are way different.

You dismissing anything at all negative about Islam no longer surprises me. Anything but acknowledging the truth and how to make things better, just deny, deny, deny instead.

The abuse of women in the Islamic world is no hidden secret. It's so bad that it's literally comical when Muslims deny the actions. And your denying of everything and anything bad within Islam is also becoming laughable.

As an American, I KNOW and I ACKNOWLEDGE that there are all kinds of problems within our country, and that includes all kinds of criminal actions. When I read reports from the various government entities, I don't deny them. There are all kinds of problems in America. We need to address them. But at least we know it exists, we admit it exists and efforts ARE made to fix these problems.

In Islam, deny it happens, turn a blind eye, and the problem only gets worse. I thought you were different than the bad eggs within Islam. But the more you post the more you show that you are a YES man for your faith, and a professional denier of all things bad.