67 years ago yesterday

[Little-Acorn]

67 years ago yesterday, Aug. 5, 1945 U.S. time, the first atomic bomb ever used in combat was dropped on Hiroshima, Japan. Three days later, on August 8, another was carried over Kokura, Japan. Kokura was found to be obscured by a 70% cloud cover, so the plane was diverted to Nagasaki, where the bomb was dropped. Approx. 200,000 Japanese, and zero Americans, were killed as a result of the two bombings.

Less than 2 weeks later, Japan surrendered, ending WWII. As a result, the planned Allied invasion of the Japanese homeland was called off. The half million American deaths that were expected, plus more than a million Japanese deaths, never happened as a result.

[Anton Chigurh]

Back when I was a young kid, I used to be a little ambivalent about the use of the atom bomb. "Why couldn't we have just demonstrated it offshore?" or, "Why not just starve 'em out?" were my questions.

It wasn't until I studied beyond the school textbooks that I got the full answer on this and my ambivalence melted away. It's conservatively estimated using the bombs saved roughly a million lives, allied and Japanese combined, and I have seen that become a generally acceptable figure. But I think it's a whole lot more than that.

When we consider what they never teach - such as the firebombings of the Japanese cities that preceded the use of the atom bombs, we get a little education. Few people know about this and how much more cruel and deadly it was than the a-bombs, killing at least four times as many people.

Had we tried to starve them out, the Soviets would have killed all Japanese in the far east, and gained claim to part of mainland Japan as a result. We would have had Japan divided as Korea, Germany and Vietnam were, and probably would have had a war over that as well. Untold millions would have died as a result of this, and likely a million more from starvation if the "die on the vine" strategy had run for much over three years.

I have no qualms about our use of the a-bombs. In fact it's just the opposite. In their use and in their existence since, easily tens of millions of lives have been saved. War deaths since have tumbled compared to what was happening before, and the planet has been much more peaceful in the last 65 years that it was in the 170 years prior. Atomic/Nuclear weapons are the greatest weapon for peace ever devised by Man.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Back when I was a young kid, I used to be a little ambivalent about the use of the atom bomb. "Why couldn't we have just demonstrated it offshore?" or, "Why not just starve 'em out?" were my questions.

It wasn't until I studied beyond the school textbooks that I got the full answer on this and my ambivalence melted away. It's conservatively estimated using the bombs saved roughly a million lives, allied and Japanese combined, and I have seen that become a generally acceptable figure. But I think it's a whole lot more than that.

When we consider what they never teach - such as the firebombings of the Japanese cities that preceded the use of the atom bombs, we get a little education. Few people know about this and how much more cruel and deadly it was than the a-bombs, killing at least four times as many people.

Had we tried to starve them out, the Soviets would have killed all Japanese in the far east, and gained claim to part of mainland Japan as a result. We would have had Japan divided as Korea, Germany and Vietnam were, and probably would have had a war over that as well. Untold millions would have died as a result of this, and likely a million more from starvation if the "die on the vine" strategy had run for much over three years.

I have no qualms about our use of the a-bombs. In fact it's just the opposite. In their use and in their existence since, easily tens of millions of lives have been saved. War deaths since have tumbled compared to what was happening before, and the planet has been much more peaceful in the last 65 years that it was in the 170 years prior. Atomic/Nuclear weapons are the greatest weapon for peace ever devised by Man.

Holy cow!! I actually agree with that post 100%!-:goodposting:--Tyr

[aboutime]

Back when I was a young kid, I used to be a little ambivalent about the use of the atom bomb. "Why couldn't we have just demonstrated it offshore?" or, "Why not just starve 'em out?" were my questions.

It wasn't until I studied beyond the school textbooks that I got the full answer on this and my ambivalence melted away. It's conservatively estimated using the bombs saved roughly a million lives, allied and Japanese combined, and I have seen that become a generally acceptable figure. But I think it's a whole lot more than that.

When we consider what they never teach - such as the firebombings of the Japanese cities that preceded the use of the atom bombs, we get a little education. Few people know about this and how much more cruel and deadly it was than the a-bombs, killing at least four times as many people.

Had we tried to starve them out, the Soviets would have killed all Japanese in the far east, and gained claim to part of mainland Japan as a result. We would have had Japan divided as Korea, Germany and Vietnam were, and probably would have had a war over that as well. Untold millions would have died as a result of this, and likely a million more from starvation if the "die on the vine" strategy had run for much over three years.

I have no qualms about our use of the a-bombs. In fact it's just the opposite. In their use and in their existence since, easily tens of millions of lives have been saved. War deaths since have tumbled compared to what was happening before, and the planet has been much more peaceful in the last 65 years that it was in the 170 years prior. Atomic/Nuclear weapons are the greatest weapon for peace ever devised by Man.


Anton. Want to hear something scary, aside from all you said above, which I thank you for stating?

Here we are talking about something that has FOREVER changed the World, and the scary aspect of that Historic moment in time, when those two bombs were dropped on Japan is...A large, shocking percentage of not only present day students, but even their Teachers...ARE NOT AWARE. Nor have they ever been taught about what we are discussing here.
But. As we all know so very well.
Those students, and many of their teachers DO KNOW....Obama can sing. And American Idol is the place to go to let Americans know....HOW YOU FEEL.

[Anton Chigurh]

Anton. Want to hear something scary, aside from all you said above, which I thank you for stating?

Here we are talking about something that has FOREVER changed the World, and the scary aspect of that Historic moment in time, when those two bombs were dropped on Japan is...A large, shocking percentage of not only present day students, but even their Teachers...ARE NOT AWARE. Nor have they ever been taught about what we are discussing here.
But. As we all know so very well.
Those students, and many of their teachers DO KNOW....Obama can sing. And American Idol is the place to go to let Americans know....HOW YOU FEEL.All they want to teach about the a-bombs was how "unfaaaaaair and crueeeeeel" they were. But the truth is exactly opposite.

[aboutime]

All they want to teach about the a-bombs was how "unfaaaaaair and crueeeeeel" they were. But the truth is exactly opposite.


Amen to that. If Harry Reid, Pelosi and Obama were in office back then. They probably would have sent HOLDER to Tokyo, to negotiate a CONSTITUTIONAL forgiveness program, and bargained for Japan to Play TIT FOR TAT by bombing San Francisco, and Hollywood in exchange for new SUZUKI motorbikes.

[gabosaurus]

The Japanese can bitch and moan about the Atomic Bomb strikes until they collectively run out of breath. The truth is that their own leadership doomed them to such a fate. The U.S. asked several times for unconditional surrender. The Japanese military warlords refused. Even after they saw the devastation at Hiroshima.
It is unfortunate that so many people see the A-bombs dropped on Japan as weapons of war. They were really weapons of peace that saved untold millions of lives.
The total death count of both bombings is around 200,000. Which is roughly the same as from the Allied bombing of Dresden.


Amen to that. If Harry Reid, Pelosi and Obama were in office back then. They probably would have sent HOLDER to Tokyo, to negotiate a CONSTITUTIONAL forgiveness program, and bargained for Japan to Play TIT FOR TAT by bombing San Francisco, and Hollywood in exchange for new SUZUKI motorbikes.

http://www.prettyfedup.com/pfu/philosophical/whyarepeoplesostupid.htm

[Anton Chigurh]

The Japanese can bitch and moan about the Atomic Bomb strikes until they collectively run out of breath.But, they really don't bitch about it. In fact they told Obama "thank you no" when he wanted to do a speech there during his second apology tour. It's pretty much the Euros and the American academia left that do any bitching about it.

[aboutime]

But, they really don't bitch about it. In fact they told Obama "thank you no" when he wanted to do a speech there during his second apology tour. It's pretty much the Euros and the American academia left that do any bitching about it.


Anton. We should both be asking Gabby WHEN DID JAPAN bitch about it?

I can't recall hearing them do so. Do you?

How bout it Gabby. Wanna fill us in?

[Anton Chigurh]

Anton. We should both be asking Gabby WHEN DID JAPAN bitch about it?

I can't recall hearing them do so. Do you?

How bout it Gabby. Wanna fill us in?I have no need to ask her since I know fully well they don't bitch about it. She was posing a hypothetical anyway, not claiming or asserting the Japanese do bitch bout it.

Hell, if the Japanese were gonna bitch about anything, it would and should be the fire bombings that were prior to the far more merciful and humane a-bombs.

[aboutime]

I have no need to ask her since I know fully well they don't bitch about it. She was posing a hypothetical anyway, not claiming or asserting the Japanese do bitch bout it.

Hell, if the Japanese were gonna bitch about anything, it would and should be the fire bombings that were prior to the far more merciful and humane a-bombs.


Hypothetical examples always get lost in the context, and rarely serve any good purposes. I tend to deal strictly with Pragmatism in everything. Either it is, or it isn't.

[Anton Chigurh]

Hypothetical examples always get lost in the context, and rarely serve any good purposes. I tend to deal strictly with Pragmatism in everything. Either it is, or it isn't.It is what it is....

[jafar00]

Never again.

I visited Hiroshima a few years ago. The Atomic Bomb museum and memorial was both upsetting and humbling. My Japanese friends were reduced to tears after seeing it.

[Neo]

Never again.

I visited Hiroshima a few years ago. The Atomic Bomb museum and memorial was both upsetting and humbling. My Japanese friends were reduced to tears after seeing it.


Awww..did they cry? Poor little bastads...err...I mean babies..of course..

So tell me, ever been to the USS Arizona Memorial in Hawaii amigo? Think you were saddened and humbled ay the Jap museum? How would you feel looking at that memotial there pilgrim? You know, the one that is the final resting place of innocent sailors who were sleeping in their bunks and never woke up because they were blown up, or died the horrible deaths of drowning and/or suffocation.

Think your Jap pals would be drawn to tears over what their ancestors did, you know the basetards that attacked us and STARTED the war.

You're friends are lucky I wasn't here to have a say about it or there wouldn't have been nothing left of Japan.

[Voted4Reagan]

All they want to teach about the a-bombs was how "unfaaaaaair and crueeeeeel" they were. But the truth is exactly opposite.

Back in the late 1970's and Early 80's when I graduated HS I often argued this with my History teachers.. They carried on how the bomb was wrong and inhumane...I simply said, I guess you'd rather have one million American Casualties and more then that on the enemy side..



My teachers didnt like me very much.....

[Voted4Reagan]

Awww..did they cry? Poor little bastads...err...I mean babies..of course..

So tell me, ever been to the USS Arizona Memorial in Hawaii amigo? Think you were saddened and humbled ay the Jap museum? How would you feel looking at that memotial there pilgrim? You know, the one that is the final resting place of innocent sailors who were sleeping in their bunks and never woke up because they were blown up, or died the horrible deaths of drowning and/or suffocation.

Think your Jap pals would be drawn to tears over what their ancestors did, you know the basetards that attacked us and STARTED the war.

You're friends are lucky I wasn't here to have a say about it or there wouldn't have been nothing left of Japan.

3816

[Indofred]

67 years ago yesterday, Aug. 5, 1945 U.S. time, the first atomic bomb ever used in combat was dropped on Hiroshima,

I think I've heard all the arguments against the bombs.
The war could have been won without them. Probably true but with a far greater loss of life.
It was an experiment - Probably but a really handy one.
Japan would have surrendered anyway - Total crap

The bombs were terrible but not as terrible as not using them and probably saved a lot more lives in they showed the world what a nuke can do.
Better than average chance that stopped WWIII (so far)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Back in the late 1970's and Early 80's when I graduated HS I often argued this with my History teachers.. They carried on how the bomb was wrong and inhumane...I simply said, I guess you'd rather have one million American Casualties and more then that on the enemy side..



My teachers didnt like me very much.....

I did a term paper on The Use of A-Bombs in World War Two, if memory serves me well in my junior year high school. The teacher had just previously lectured a few days sermon on how wrong it was citing Japan was ready to surrender anyways and all we had to do was wait. I did my term paper and lo' and behold he used it in class to my horror at first , but it turn out well in the end. For even the teacher ended up agreeing their use saved many, many thousands of lives and more importantly -American lives!
Teacher went from being indifferent to me to actually liking me after my taking a defiant stand against his previous lecturing on the subject. DEFIANT, I'VE ALWAYS DONE WELL(call it a natural gift)! ;) He was a bit liberal but not totally so.-Tyr

[Gaffer]

What most people don't do is study the Japanese side of WW2. See what was going on within their govt and the worship of the emperor, who was considered a living god. A lot of thought went in to dropping those bombs. The Japanese govt didn't even believe such bombs existed even after Hiroshima. The whole surrender took place in order to protect the emperor. And the one stipulation in the surrender was that the emperor would be immune from any prosecution. Understanding the Japanese mentality of the time is important to understanding why the bombs were used.

There's a good book on Japan in WW2 called Rising Sun, I don't remember the author's name and my copy disappeared many moons ago.

[Anton Chigurh]

Never again.

I visited Hiroshima a few years ago. The Atomic Bomb museum and memorial was both upsetting and humbling. My Japanese friends were reduced to tears after seeing it.They don't have a "Fire Bombings Museum." Ever wonder why? The firebombings were far more cruel, killed at least four times more people, and those were lingering, suffering deaths, all. Using irrational fear, superstition, outright lies and hurt feelings to demonize nuclear science and of course, America in general.

[Anton Chigurh]

What most people don't do is study the Japanese side of WW2. See what was going on within their govt and the worship of the emperor, who was considered a living god. A lot of thought went in to dropping those bombs. The Japanese govt didn't even believe such bombs existed even after Hiroshima. The whole surrender took place in order to protect the emperor. And the one stipulation in the surrender was that the emperor would be immune from any prosecution. Understanding the Japanese mentality of the time is important to understanding why the bombs were used.

There's a good book on Japan in WW2 called Rising Sun, I don't remember the author's name and my copy disappeared many moons ago.Actually the Japanese military tried to keep the emperor from broadcasting the capitulation message. He tricked them - taped it in advance, and it went out on the air at the very moment they were trying to seize him.

[Gaffer]

Actually the Japanese military tried to keep the emperor from broadcasting the capitulation message. He tricked them - taped it in advance, and it went out on the air at the very moment they were trying to seize him.

Yep, there was some very interesting politics going on behind the scenes in Japan at the time. The anti-America, anti-nuke crowd don't want that stuff brought to light. I knew he made a tape, I had forgotten about the attempt to seize him.

[Kathianne]

Lots of interesting info here:

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol46no3/article07.html