Saudi female athlete's father to act against insults

[jimnyc]

At least they aren't looking to kill anyone for their insults, that we're aware of. But who and how many people does he plan on suing? Does it matter where they reside? What makes this dickhead think people should be sued for speaking their opinions? I wonder if he'll sue people beyond Twitter? This is actually laughable. I guess when you grow up and live in certain areas, with certain customs, they don't understand people being able to speak their minds and see it as criminal when people do. Poor schmuck.


The father of the first ever Saudi female to compete at the Olympic Games has vowed to sue those who insulted his daughter for challenging strict traditions that prevented women from participating.

The father of Wojdan Shaherkani, who stole the limelight at the London Olympics despite lasting only 82 seconds on the mat before being defeated, told Al-Sharq daily that he wrote to the interior minister with copies of insults made on the Twitter microblogging website.

"I have sent an urgent letter to the Minister of Interior Prince Ahmed bin Nayef bin Abdul Aziz with copies of all attacks made on Twitter," said Ali Seraj Shaherkani.

A lawyer has been hired to sue those who attacked his daughter, he said.

The judo international referee said he had no problem with those who criticised the performance of his teenage daughter, who despite being swiftly beaten by Puerto Rico's Melissa Mojica left the stadium to a standing ovation.

It is the first time the ultra-conservative Muslim kingdom sends women to the Olympics, and Shaherkani was almost kept out after the international federation for judo said she could not wear the Islamic hijab head cover.

The 16-year-old judoist eventually took part wearing a swimming cap to cover her hair, but that still did not impress Saudi conservatives who oppose relaxing constraints on women.

"You do not represent the chaste Muslim woman," wrote Mohammed al-Barrak, a lecturer at Umm Al-Qura University in Mecca, on his Twitter page.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/saudi-female-athletes-father-act-against-insults-141312699--oly.html

[fj1200]

^That seems to be the best way to continue breaking down barriers, hire a lawyer and sue... err, maybe not.

[gabosaurus]

You should read some of the comments made about this woman, on both Muslim and non-Muslim site. If the same things had been said about one of your kids, you would be reaching for a weapon.
This guy might be a Muslim, but he is also a father.

[jimnyc]

You should read some of the comments made about this woman, on both Muslim and non-Muslim site. If the same things had been said about one of your kids, you would be reaching for a weapon.
This guy might be a Muslim, but he is also a father.

Sorry, insults are part of the little thing we call "freedom of speech". When you become a star, or public figure, you have to prepare for positive and negative publicity. You can't retaliate with physical violence, nor can you sue every single idiot who makes an off handed comment. I would never want some of the filth said spoken about my son, but if he were an Olympic athlete, there might be comments from all corners of the world. I can't very well not expect people to chime in when he's going in front of billions of people.

I expect the guy to probably be angry, and her too, I would expect nothing less. But now these suits will bring them more laughter, and place them more in the spotlight.

[gabosaurus]

I don't believe participating in one Olympic judo match makes you a public figure.
Guy just wants to do best for his kid. At least that is how I see it.

[jimnyc]

I don't believe participating in one Olympic judo match makes you a public figure.
Guy just wants to do best for his kid. At least that is how I see it.

She most absolutely is a public figure. Either way though, almost every athlete is going to be talked about, and some more than others. And when it's controversial, then it gets discussed 10x more. Look at Phelps, as much as people love him, there are comments from people who literally hate him and accuse him of cheating. The Chinese girl who won in spectacular fashion, tons and tons and tons of comments. These people have the right to feel insulted and even angry, but the thought of them all suing if they think the comments are too insulting is ridiculous. In the USA alone, if people filed lawsuits every time online comments insulted them, the courts would be booked solid for the next 50yrs.

[jafar00]

At least they aren't looking to kill anyone for their insults, that we're aware of. But who and how many people does he plan on suing? Does it matter where they reside? What makes this dickhead think people should be sued for speaking their opinions? I wonder if he'll sue people beyond Twitter? This is actually laughable. I guess when you grow up and live in certain areas, with certain customs, they don't understand people being able to speak their minds and see it as criminal when people do. Poor schmuck.

Why are you hurling abuse at a father who wants to defend his daughter? She has been the subject of a lot of hate from all corners. I'm sure there were tears. As a father I would also vow revenge on those who attacked my daughter. Freedom of speech should come within defined limits. This is clearly in the realm of abuse.

[Trigg]

You should read some of the comments made about this woman, on both Muslim and non-Muslim site. If the same things had been said about one of your kids, you would be reaching for a weapon.
This guy might be a Muslim, but he is also a father.


I'm sorry but this can't be the first time he's heard the rude comments. The other Saudi participends have reported some of the nasty comments from muslim men that they had to endure during their training.

Did he really think that once she made it the nutso religious types would go home and shut up?

[jimnyc]

Why are you hurling abuse at a father who wants to defend his daughter? She has been the subject of a lot of hate from all corners. I'm sure there were tears. As a father I would also vow revenge on those who attacked my daughter. Freedom of speech should come within defined limits. This is clearly in the realm of abuse.

Because not everything is resolved with frivolous lawsuits and violence. Maybe if he narrows down a few insults emanating from an Islamic country, anywhere else it would be a frivolous suit, as waste of time. No court would even force an ISP to hand over a name over this, unless it was a threat. Making fun of an athlete is FAR from a reason for anyone to sue. Making fun of someone, an athlete, is not "abuse". I'd love to see Twitter receive communication asking to hand over IP information on a user that hurled insults about her weight or appearance. The Twitter legal team will get a good snicker out of it.

And I'm sure you would vow revenge for someone insulting your daughter, I've already pointed out how Islam handles insults.

And I'll point out again, both have a right to be upset and angry. They have no right to resort to violence. They have no standing in court, as far as a US court is concerned, not within 100 miles.

[Voted4Reagan]

know what I love about all this??

A SAUDI WOMAN showed up all the Saudi MEN...

She got far more respect and Admiration...

She struck a blow for equality that will start a tidal wave...

just watch...

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

know what I love about all this??

A SAUDI WOMAN showed up all the Saudi MEN...

She got far more respect and Admiration...

She struck a blow for equality that will start a tidal wave...

just watch...

The muslim men often hide behind their women because the women are actually stronger!
That is why they have laws keeping the women completely subservient and often that relegate the women to a status of being property.-Tyr

[Thunderknuckles]

Why are you hurling abuse at a father who wants to defend his daughter? She has been the subject of a lot of hate from all corners. I'm sure there were tears. As a father I would also vow revenge on those who attacked my daughter. Freedom of speech should come within defined limits. This is clearly in the realm of abuse.
That's a problem with folks here in the U.S. Who get's to define what type of speech is "abuse" and what type of punishment to go with it?
Our founding fathers clearly did not want to place defined limitations on free speech as it could eventually be abused by Government itself in taking punitive actions against private citizens because of what they said. The down side is we have to accept that some citizens will abuse their own freedom.

[jimnyc]

That's a problem with folks here in the U.S. Who get's to define what type of speech is "abuse" and what type of punishment to go with it?
Our founding fathers clearly did not want to place defined limitations on free speech as it could eventually be abused by Government itself in taking punitive actions against private citizens because of what they said. The down side is we have to accept that some citizens will abuse their own freedom.


We've all heard the "freedom of speech comes with limitations..." and then the "Can't yell fire in a theater". I think we all more or less have a good idea of what freedom of speech entails and the responsibility that comes with it. But hurling insults IS protected speech. The only way it would ever come even remotely to a violation would be if an insult was also an actual threat. And don't forget, we're talking about online social media as well. This would mean that about 75% of the members on this board are up for a lawsuit, about the same on Twitter and about that amount on average for every political forum out there.

And abuse? Hardly, not even close. Maybe if she was involved in one of these places, and people wouldn't leave her alone in a place she had a right to be, but she wasn't. This was simply a mass of people around the world who read various articles about her, and then commented on these articles. This happens every second of every day. Go to Yahoo and start picking through their news stories. About 90% of them allow comments and about 95% of those articles carry disparaging comments. This doesn't mean I condone it, I'm just willing to speak up for the rights of others to speak their opinions.

It's not much different than here at DP. And forgive me for using you as an example, Jafar. But you post here all the time, and I know a few people say MORE than insulting things to you at times. Are you going to file a lawsuit? You do realize, that's about as far as you would get, thinking about it. You would have to file a John Doe lawsuit as you have no names, and then subpoena the information from my webhosting provider to find out who I am. Then another one for me to provide the info on the person making the post. Truth is though, no court in the land would demand my provider give over any information as there is no legal basis to do so. None, not even close.

And after all that, I simply say it's best to ignore the people and places that might insult you, unless of course you are talking about a jurisdiction where people don't have the freedom to speak their minds.

[jafar00]

Because not everything is resolved with frivolous lawsuits and violence. Maybe if he narrows down a few insults emanating from an Islamic country, anywhere else it would be a frivolous suit, as waste of time. No court would even force an ISP to hand over a name over this, unless it was a threat. Making fun of an athlete is FAR from a reason for anyone to sue. Making fun of someone, an athlete, is not "abuse". I'd love to see Twitter receive communication asking to hand over IP information on a user that hurled insults about her weight or appearance. The Twitter legal team will get a good snicker out of it.

And I'm sure you would vow revenge for someone insulting your daughter, I've already pointed out how Islam handles insults.

And I'll point out again, both have a right to be upset and angry. They have no right to resort to violence. They have no standing in court, as far as a US court is concerned, not within 100 miles.

You have to admit, the US (and other 1st world countries) is full of frivolous law suites.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/bullied-teenager-gets-290000-in-settlement-20100310-pz9o.html
http://www.kake.com/news/headlines/Wichita-Dentist-Facing-Sexual-Harassment-Discrimination-Lawsuit-165184386.html

If freedom of speech is without limits then I could follow your wife/girlfriend about telling her how nice her ass is all day every day without you being upset because it is just me exercising my right to freedom of speech.

I could go into a crowded theatre and shout "He's GOT A GUN!!" and nobody would bet an eyelid because that just me exercising my right to freedom of speech.

What if the insults thrown at Wojdan ended up in her being clinically depressed requiring medication or psychological help? What if she committed suicide because of it? Would that still be just a matter of freedom of speech?


The muslim men often hide behind their women because the women are actually stronger!
That is why they have laws keeping the women completely subservient and often that relegate the women to a status of being property.-Tyr

Remind me. What laws are they?

[Thunderknuckles]

If freedom of speech is without limits then I could follow your wife/girlfriend about telling her how nice her ass is all day every day without you being upset because it is just me exercising my right to freedom of speech.

I could go into a crowded theatre and shout "He's GOT A GUN!!" and nobody would bet an eyelid because that just me exercising my right to freedom of speech.

What if the insults thrown at Wojdan ended up in her being clinically depressed requiring medication or psychological help? What if she committed suicide because of it? Would that still be just a matter of freedom of speech? ?
Interesting points. As to the crowded theater example, we do have restrictions in place for that.
As for following Jim's wife, if in person that could go down as harassment and action could be taken against you. I've not considered the ramifications of doing this via social media and I suppose it's a good question. Should we consider this harassment if it is via social media? I know where you stand on this Jafar but am curious what others think.

[jimnyc]

You have to admit, the US (and other 1st world countries) is full of frivolous law suites.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/bullied-teenager-gets-290000-in-settlement-20100310-pz9o.html
http://www.kake.com/news/headlines/Wichita-Dentist-Facing-Sexual-Harassment-Discrimination-Lawsuit-165184386.html

If freedom of speech is without limits then I could follow your wife/girlfriend about telling her how nice her ass is all day every day without you being upset because it is just me exercising my right to freedom of speech.

I could go into a crowded theatre and shout "He's GOT A GUN!!" and nobody would bet an eyelid because that just me exercising my right to freedom of speech.

What if the insults thrown at Wojdan ended up in her being clinically depressed requiring medication or psychological help? What if she committed suicide because of it? Would that still be just a matter of freedom of speech?


Comparing following someone, in person, around all day - to an online insult? LOL Yes, if you literally followed someone around, that would be harassment and perhaps stalking. Telling her she had a nice ass, whether online or in person, would be just fine.

No one EVER said there wasn't limitations, just that insulting someone online isn't even remotely close to going past any form of limitation. Again, it happens right here on this very board, and much worse at times! I already mentioned the theater one, and yes, that's irresponsibility, and a threat to the people in the theater. Once again, not even in the same ballpark as insulting someone online.

People are insulted AND MORE on places like FB, Myspace and forums such as this all day long and all year long. Someone getting depressed as a result of comments won't somehow change our constitutional rights. If it were the same person, doing so for a very lengthy period, then "maybe", and that's a BIG maybe. But a sole comment from people all over, not a chance in hell.

A person is free to speak their opinions, and you can't magically take away ones freedom to speak their opinion a year later, because someone decided they didn't like it and became depressed.

But like I said, it's all over the internet and nobody truly knows one another. If he wants to file a suit against anyone here in the US, because they called her fat names or claimed she had more hair on her than Chewbacca, it would never reach a courtroom. No sane judge will subpoena documentation from an ISP over playground insults.

[jimnyc]

Interesting points. As to the crowded theater example, we do have restrictions in place for that.
As for following Jim's wife, if in person that could go down as harassment and action could be taken against you. I've not considered the ramifications of doing this via social media and I suppose it's a good question. Should we consider this harassment if it is via social media? I know where you stand on this Jafar but am curious what others think.

Absolutely, and there have been cases of harassment on FB and such going to courtrooms. For example, if you get into a fight with someone on FB, and bad things are said to one another, there is no claim there. But if the other person blocks you, or removes you as a friend, and you end up creating new and newer accounts with the intent of coming back and further starting things, that could easily be harassment.

Or the now infamous case where a grown woman got involved with her daughter and friends, to make believe she was a young man and befriending the young girl from down the road. Apparently she kept up this fraudulent account for some time, and then shattered the other girls heart when she found out it was all a scam. That girl ended up killing herself.

But keep in mind, these things we are discussing are where both parties are participating. That's much different than one party simply making a comment beneath an article. It's a little harder to "harass" someone if they aren't there to participate. Pushing someone for months on end, with interaction back and forth - compared to someone reading an article about an athlete, and then commenting about her appearance or stance on the hijab.

I wonder if the father will be filing suits against the people back home. She received a ton of scorn from within her own country. Maybe the laws there are different concerning freedoms. I don't think people are allowed to speak their minds in Saudi Arabia, and certainly nowhere near what our constitution allows.

It is kind of ironic though, that a man from Saudi Arabia would want to file a lawsuit over the treatment of a woman. Talk about irony.

[taft2012]

know what I love about all this??

A SAUDI WOMAN showed up all the Saudi MEN...

She got far more respect and Admiration...

She struck a blow for equality that will start a tidal wave...

just watch...

Oh please. If you were a Muslim you'd be pointing her out to the clerics, passing out rocks to the crowd, and casting the first stone.

You forget.... some of us *KNOW* you.

[aboutime]

Comparing following someone, in person, around all day - to an online insult? LOL Yes, if you literally followed someone around, that would be harassment and perhaps stalking. Telling her she had a nice ass, whether online or in person, would be just fine.

No one EVER said there wasn't limitations, just that insulting someone online isn't even remotely close to going past any form of limitation. Again, it happens right here on this very board, and much worse at times! I already mentioned the theater one, and yes, that's irresponsibility, and a threat to the people in the theater. Once again, not even in the same ballpark as insulting someone online.

People are insulted AND MORE on places like FB, Myspace and forums such as this all day long and all year long. Someone getting depressed as a result of comments won't somehow change our constitutional rights. If it were the same person, doing so for a very lengthy period, then "maybe", and that's a BIG maybe. But a sole comment from people all over, not a chance in hell.

A person is free to speak their opinions, and you can't magically take away ones freedom to speak their opinion a year later, because someone decided they didn't like it and became depressed.

But like I said, it's all over the internet and nobody truly knows one another. If he wants to file a suit against anyone here in the US, because they called her fat names or claimed she had more hair on her than Chewbacca, it would never reach a courtroom. No sane judge will subpoena documentation from an ISP over playground insults.



jimnyc. I would call all of what jafar said above as. Nothing more than ANY EXCUSE to justify being as dumb as a box of rocks, and proving it by intentionally trying to circumvent law, and the common rules of humanity.

[abso]

And I'm sure you would vow revenge for someone insulting your daughter, I've already pointed out how Islam handles insults.

hello Jim, i don't think that Islam is a person who is able to handle anything, Islam is just a set of principles which some people believe in it, some people twist it, some people abuse it, some people just hate it....

again, Islam is not a person for you to make him responsible for all the misdeeds in this world, i think i have said that more than enough, let's start making everyone responsible for his own actions, but don't just use Islam as an excuse for anything you don't like about Muslims, because for everything you don't like in some Muslims, there are other Muslims who don't like it too, we all share the same religion but we don't share the same behavior, if you want to criticize, please stick to the behavior not the religion. :rolleyes:

[Indofred]

Sorry, insults are part of the little thing we call "freedom of speech"..

Fine.
About that donkey you had sex with last night, does your bum still hurt?

Is that a reasonable use of freedom of speech or just an insult?

[Nukeman]

Fine.
About that donkey you had sex with last night, does your bum still hurt?

Is that a reasonable use of freedom of speech or just an insult?
Don't know about Jim but how does YOUR throat feel after blowing that camel for the sex show you were in last night!!!???:poke:

[Indofred]

Don't know about Jim but how does YOUR throat feel after blowing that camel for the sex show you were in last night!!!???:poke:

That was my mate with the camel.
I blew the elephant.

[jimnyc]

Fine.
About that donkey you had sex with last night, does your bum still hurt?

Is that a reasonable use of freedom of speech or just an insult?

I just mentioned in another thread about how I was told you were a troll elsewhere. Now you go and prove it. You aren't even a good troll. FAIL!

[jafar00]

I can see that this thread is going to hell in a hand basket quickly.

[Voted4Reagan]

in 83 seconds this woman became a SYMBOL FOR EQUAL RIGHTS just as surely as did Susan B. Anthony...

She is now the face of Womens Rights in a Country that must emerge into the 21st Century...

[Nukeman]

I can see that this thread is going to hell in a hand basket quickly.Thank your friend Indofred.. He's the one that took it down the rabbit hole!!!!!!!!!!

[aboutime]

Thank your friend Indofred.. He's the one that took it down the rabbit hole!!!!!!!!!!


Nukeman. I suspect. Both are the same wannabe smart ass they thought we would argue with here. So now. We have either ONE dummy, or TWO very stupid people pretending to be actual human beings.

[avatar4321]

^That seems to be the best way to continue breaking down barriers, hire a lawyer and sue... err, maybe not.

Does it matter how barriers are broken down in Saudi Arabia? They need to be broken.

[avatar4321]

I don't believe participating in one Olympic judo match makes you a public figure.
Guy just wants to do best for his kid. At least that is how I see it.

I dont see how the first Saudi female competing, regardless of the sport or how long she competes, doesnt make you a public figure.

Jamaica had a Bobsled team ones. Those guys were certainly public figures.

[fj1200]

^Just not sure how suing people will reinforce any gains. Seems counterproductive.

[avatar4321]

Why are you hurling abuse at a father who wants to defend his daughter? She has been the subject of a lot of hate from all corners. I'm sure there were tears. As a father I would also vow revenge on those who attacked my daughter. Freedom of speech should come within defined limits. This is clearly in the realm of abuse.

Vengence belongs to God. As a father, Id comfort my daughter and pray for those foolish enough to speak evil of her. That's what God teaches.

[avatar4321]

We've all heard the "freedom of speech comes with limitations..." and then the "Can't yell fire in a theater". I think we all more or less have a good idea of what freedom of speech entails and the responsibility that comes with it. But hurling insults IS protected speech. The only way it would ever come even remotely to a violation would be if an insult was also an actual threat. And don't forget, we're talking about online social media as well. This would mean that about 75% of the members on this board are up for a lawsuit, about the same on Twitter and about that amount on average for every political forum out there.

And abuse? Hardly, not even close. Maybe if she was involved in one of these places, and people wouldn't leave her alone in a place she had a right to be, but she wasn't. This was simply a mass of people around the world who read various articles about her, and then commented on these articles. This happens every second of every day. Go to Yahoo and start picking through their news stories. About 90% of them allow comments and about 95% of those articles carry disparaging comments. This doesn't mean I condone it, I'm just willing to speak up for the rights of others to speak their opinions.

It's not much different than here at DP. And forgive me for using you as an example, Jafar. But you post here all the time, and I know a few people say MORE than insulting things to you at times. Are you going to file a lawsuit? You do realize, that's about as far as you would get, thinking about it. You would have to file a John Doe lawsuit as you have no names, and then subpoena the information from my webhosting provider to find out who I am. Then another one for me to provide the info on the person making the post. Truth is though, no court in the land would demand my provider give over any information as there is no legal basis to do so. None, not even close.

And after all that, I simply say it's best to ignore the people and places that might insult you, unless of course you are talking about a jurisdiction where people don't have the freedom to speak their minds.

In the United States, yes. Though, I suppose it could fall under the slander/libel laws. In Saudi Arabia? In Great Britain? Not so much. I dont know how liberal free speech laws are elsewhere in the world.

[avatar4321]

Fine.
About that donkey you had sex with last night, does your bum still hurt?

Is that a reasonable use of freedom of speech or just an insult?

You are free to say that. You wont recieve government sanction or death for doing so. You might lose privileges at private message board that doesnt allow that though.

[avatar4321]

I can see that this thread is going to hell in a hand basket quickly.

Sometimes we have to go to hell to save people.

[avatar4321]

^Just not sure how suing people will reinforce any gains. Seems counterproductive.

Depends who is suing and what the gains are.