Mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

[Little-Acorn]

Very preliminary report, expect many changes.

-----------------------------------------

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/reports-of-people-shot-at-sikh-temple-in-oak-creek-qc6cgc0-165059506.html

Four shot at Sikh Temple, possible hostages

by Mike Johnson and Karen Herzog of the Journal Sentinel
Updated: 12:10 p.m.

We are getting reports that 20 to 30 people have been injured in a shooting before 11 a.m. Sunday at the Sikh Temple, 7512 S. Howell Ave., in Oak Creek.

Two shooters are possibly still inside with children as hostages, according to someone who sent a text message to a Journal Sentinel reporter.

Flight for Life has been called.

Oak Creek police are not giving out any information at this point.

Oak Creek police, the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Department and other law enforcement agencies have responded.

There are reports that the head priest was locked inside a restroom with a cell phone and said there was as many as 30 victims in temple.

As of about noon, the Milwaukee County Medical Examiner's Office said it had not been called to the scene.

Meanwhile, Brookfield police officers were dispatched to the Sikh Temple at 3675 N. Calhoun Road as a precaution in the aftermath of the Oak Creek shooting.

At least three squads were at the temple in Waukesha County.

About 50 people were at the Brookfield temple for a morning service and many of them went outside after they learned of the shooting in Oak Creek.

We will update frequently.

[Kathianne]

I just saw this:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/08/breaking-shooting-at-temple-in-oak-creek-wis-/1


Several people have been injured in a shooting incident at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wis., just south of Milwaukee, the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel (http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/reports-of-people-shot-at-sikh-temple-in-oak-creek-qc6cgc0-165059506.html) reports.


Update at 12:13 local time: Two shooters are possibly still inside with children as hostages, according to someone who sent a text message to a Journal Sentinel reporter, the Journal-Sentinel reports.


CNN is reporting that the shooter is at large.


Update at 12:07 local time: Reports of 20 to 30 shot at Sikh Temple in Wisconsin, possible hostages, the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel (http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/reports-of-people-shot-at-sikh-temple-in-oak-creek-qc6cgc0-165059506.html) reports.


There are reports that the head priest was locked inside a restroom with a cell phone and said there was as many as 30 victims in temple.


As of about noon, the Milwaukee County Medical Examiner's Office said it had not been called to the scene.


Meanwhile, Brookfield police officers were dispatched to the Sikh Temple at 3675 N. Calhoun Road as a precaution in the aftermath of the Oak Creek shooting.


At least three squads were at the temple in Waukesha County.


About 50 people were at the Brookfield temple for a morning service and many of them went outside after they learned of the shooting in Oak Creek.


Original post: The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel (http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/reports-of-people-shot-at-sikh-temple-in-oak-creek-qc6cgc0-165059506.html)is reporting that multiple people, an undetermined number between 8 and 20, have been injured in a shooting incident at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wis., just south of Milwaukee.


The shooting took place around 11 a.m. local time at the Sikh Temple, 7512 S. Howell Ave., in Oak Creek.


Oak Creek police, the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Department and other law enforcement agencies have responded.

[hjmick]

Why do I have a feeling that this was some racist moron who doesn't know the difference between Sikhs and Muslims?

Not that shooting Muslims would make it okay...

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Why do I have a feeling that this was some racist moron who doesn't know the difference between Sikhs and Muslims?

Not that shooting Muslims would make it okay...

Muslims know the difference and it could also be a muslim "peace" initiative too.;)

We will just have to wait and see who is responsible and why they did it..-Tyr

[Noir]

If its some crazy Muslim killing Sikhs - 'Look at the religion of peace at work, the media will no doubt say he was some crazy extremist, separating him from 'mainstream' Muslims', if it bothers to cover the story much at all.

If it's some crazy Christian killing Sikhs - 'Look at how much attention the media is giving this story, trying to make it look as if this guy is associated with mainstream Christians, rather than the crazy extremist he obviously is.'

[aboutime]

Based on past experience with this kind of story all of us have seen. How long will it be before someone blames the police officer for killing someone without a reason?

I've already seen...on Yahoo news comments. Where many have already begun blaming Republican/Conservative, Tea Party members.

Anyone ready to hear more like that?

[jafar00]

Bigotry, a lack of education, right wing extremist propaganda and easy access to guns combine to make this kind of situation.

[Kathianne]

Bigotry, a lack of education, right wing extremist propaganda and easy access to guns combine to make this kind of situation.

access to guns hasn't a thing to do with the violence here. Indeed, if there had been an armed person there, the results may have been very different from what's being reported.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14808321/detail.html

[hjmick]

Bigotry, a lack of education, right wing extremist propaganda and easy access to guns combine to make this kind of situation.

Oh knock it off...

[Noir]

Bigotry, a lack of education, right wing extremist propaganda and easy access to guns combine to make this kind of situation.

Oh dear, jumping the gun a bit are we not? =/

[aboutime]

Bigotry, a lack of education, right wing extremist propaganda and easy access to guns combine to make this kind of situation.


​Your sentence above described exactly what I...and possibly many others feel that you happily display here. Describing yourself so well. Is a welcome event. Preventing the rest of us from REPEATING your words that apply so well to you.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/05/13130110-gunman-opens-fire-at-sikh-temple-in-wisconsin-7-d

Gunman opens fire at Sikh temple in Wisconsin; 7 deadA Wisconsin police official says that at least seven people are dead, including the gunman, in a shooting at a Sikh temple outside Milwaukee. Watch the entire news conference.
By NBC News and wire services
Updated at 4:08 p.m. ET: A gunman opened fire Sunday morning at a Sikh temple outside of Milwaukee, killing six people and wounding at least three others, including a police officer, before being shot to death, police said.


Jeffrey Phelps / AP

A man wipes away tears on Sunday outside the Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wis.
Greenfield Police Chief Bradley Wentlandt, acting as public information officer at the scene, said the shooting was reported at 10:25 a.m. at the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin in Oak Creek, south of Milwaukee along Lake Michigan. The shooting took place shortly before Sunday services were to begin.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Follow @NBCNewsUS A police officer who is a 20-year law enforcement veteran responded to multiple 911 calls about the shooting and came upon a gunman outside the temple. The officer was shot multiple times, Wendlandt said. The officer returned fire, striking and killing the gunman. The wounded officer was taken to a hospital where he was undergoing surgery.

Wendlandt said four bodies were found inside the temple and three, including the suspected gunman, were outside. He did not identify or describe the victims.

Tactical police officers swept through the temple several times and found no signs of additional suspects despite earlier reports of a possible second gunman.

"This is the best information we have, and this information may change,'' he told reporters outside the temple.

The temple's president, Satwant Kaleka, was among those shot, the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel reported.

Sukhwindar Nagr, of Racine, said he called his brother-in-law's phone and a priest at the temple answered, The Associated Press reported. Nagr said the priest told him that his brother-in-law had been shot, along with three priests. Nagr said the priest also said women and children hid in closets at the temple.

A temple committee member, Ven Boba Ri, told the Journal-Sentinel that people inside the temple described the shooter as a white male in his 30s.

"We have no idea," he said of the motive. "It's pretty much a hate crime. It's not an insider."

Ri told the Journal-Sentinel the gunman walked up to a priest who was standing outside the temple and shot him. Then he went inside and started shooting.

People inside the temple used cell phones to call people outside, saying please send help, Ri said.

Three male victims, including the wounded police officer, were being treated at Froedtert Hospital in Milwaukee.

Oak Creek police, the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Department and other law enforcement agencies responded, the Journal-Sentinel reported. The FBI also assisted.


Authorities closed roads and set up a staging area near the temple, WTMJ reported.

Wisconsin state Rep. Josh Zepnick, who came to the scene, said he has been inside the temple many times. He described the shooting as senseless.

"On a beautiful Sunday morning, the absolute last thing you would expect is a place of peace and love and spiritual worship would be torn to shreds by gun violence," Zepnick told WTMJ.

"Our hearts go out to the victims and their families, as we all struggle to comprehend the evil that begets this terrible violence," Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker said in a statement.

"At the same time, we are filled with gratitude for our first responders, who show bravery and selflessness as they put aside their own safety to protect our neighbors and friends."

President Barack Obama was notified of the shooting shortly before 1 p.m. by his Homeland Security adviser, John Brennan, and was receiving updates on the incident.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Obama notified. Thats to give him a heads up on this incident so he can use it in his campaign against gun ownership by American citizens methinks! It just happened , why is the President of the Unired State notified so quickly? Even before all the information is gathered concerning the attack? The obvious answer is that the DEAD attacker was a white guy!
Had he looked to be of Arabic or ME origins /muslim connections we wouldnt here about that for days! Hell. obama administration still calls the Fort Hood Islamic terrorist attack a "workplace incident" when the murderer was a muslim going on jihad!--Tyr

[Noir]

^this is what a lot of people think of when they think if Americans, and why, you're letting the side down man =/

[aboutime]

^this is what a lot of people think of when they think if Americans, and why, you're letting the side down man =/


Noir. Gotta disagree with you here in a way. Yes. This is what people have been conditioned, and programmed to think about Americans. But it seems the same people who are conditioned, and programmed against Americans...always seem to ignore, or intentionally forget the same kinds of things happening in their OWN BACK YARD(nations).
It's always easier...as Obama does so well. To always point that accusing finger at others to distract from your own Actions, Deeds, and Screw-ups.
That is exactly what Obama has been doing since he was elected. Have you heard the phrase "It's Bush's fault?"

[jafar00]

access to guns hasn't a thing to do with the violence here. Indeed, if there had been an armed person there, the results may have been very different from what's being reported.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14808321/detail.html

I saw exactly the same comment on another forum, except they used sarcasm tags.

If this shooting was in a Mosque and there were armed Muslims who took down the shooter would you be praising them for having concealed shooters? Or would there be a bunch of right wing extremists in this thread doing the "religion of peace" crap?

[aboutime]

I saw exactly the same comment on another forum, except they used sarcasm tags.

If this shooting was in a Mosque and there were armed Muslims who took down the shooter would you be praising them for having concealed shooters? Or would there be a bunch of right wing extremists in this thread doing the "religion of peace" crap?


So, what did you do jafar?
You had to say it yourself?
Hypocrisy, hidden behind patronizing idea's just never seem to work.

WHY bring up 'religion of peace' yourself? Looks like you were inviting someone to use it, just to please your Brotherhood needs.

[SassyLady]

^this is what a lot of people think of when they think if Americans, and why, you're letting the side down man =/

Yep ... people conveniently forget that our country donates more to disaster relief around the world than any other nation....both the government and the citizens.

[jimnyc]

I saw exactly the same comment on another forum, except they used sarcasm tags.

If this shooting was in a Mosque and there were armed Muslims who took down the shooter would you be praising them for having concealed shooters? Or would there be a bunch of right wing extremists in this thread doing the "religion of peace" crap?

I can only speak for myself, but if that scenario happened, I would solely be pointing it out to the anti-gun nuts that legally armed citizens prevented a crime or worse.

You seem to think that since a decent amount of us point out crimes and atrocities in Islam, that we would also hold Muslims accountable when they did nothing wrong, or appropriately defended themselves from a madman. Some, or should I say most of us are reasonable and base our comments/opinions on a case by case basis.

[SassyLady]

I saw exactly the same comment on another forum, except they used sarcasm tags.

If this shooting was in a Mosque and there were armed Muslims who took down the shooter would you be praising them for having concealed shooters? Or would there be a bunch of right wing extremists in this thread doing the "religion of peace" crap?

You might find a little of both......This board doesn't participate in "group think".

[WiccanLiberal]

I think if I were in the position of being attacked by a gunman in a place I had previously felt safe, I would be grateful for anyone taking action against that person. It wouldn't matter if the person were a duly constituted police officer or a local citizen exercising their right to a personal weapon. Be honest. Mentally put yourself in that position. Then ask yourself if you could condemn someone for attempting to stop a massacre where people you know are dying around you. The problem is that too many people seem to have a political viewpoint that doesn't allow them to make that very simple assumption.

[jafar00]

So, what did you do jafar?
You had to say it yourself?
Hypocrisy, hidden behind patronizing idea's just never seem to work.

WHY bring up 'religion of peace' yourself? Looks like you were inviting someone to use it, just to please your Brotherhood needs.

I am not a member of Ikhwan.


Yep ... people conveniently forget that our country donates more to disaster relief around the world than any other nation....both the government and the citizens.

The generosity of US citizens when it comes to charity is appreciated by those in need the world over. :dance: However that has nothing to do with the subject.


I think if I were in the position of being attacked by a gunman in a place I had previously felt safe, I would be grateful for anyone taking action against that person. It wouldn't matter if the person were a duly constituted police officer or a local citizen exercising their right to a personal weapon. Be honest. Mentally put yourself in that position. Then ask yourself if you could condemn someone for attempting to stop a massacre where people you know are dying around you. The problem is that too many people seem to have a political viewpoint that doesn't allow them to make that very simple assumption.

I am of the opinion that vigilantism is a bad thing. Confronting an armed assailant is best left to a well trained police or security officer.

[jimnyc]

I am of the opinion that vigilantism is a bad thing. Confronting an armed assailant is best left to a well trained police or security officer.

You've made this mistake previously and never commented again. So I'll correct you again. Someone responding with a gun in the midst of an attack, and tries to stop an assailant, that IS NOT vigilantism. It's close, admittedly, but a vigilante sets out to AVENGE a crime, not PREVENT a crime.

[aboutime]

You've made this mistake previously and never commented again. So I'll correct you again. Someone responding with a gun in the midst of an attack, and tries to stop an assailant, that IS NOT vigilantism. It's close, admittedly, but a vigilante sets out to AVENGE a crime, not PREVENT a crime.


Forget jafar.
In reference to his mindless claim about a vigilante type of talk here.
There is a Police Officer who was DOING HIS JOB jafar, who is now in a hospital with many wounds that threaten his life.
His being there and possibly protecting the lives of ALL OF THE OTHER PEOPLE there, was not, and could never be classified...as you have done, as any form of vigilante in nature.
You Continue to NEED, and WANT, if not DEMAND that only your views on everything are correct, while everyone else who dares to disagree with you...in any way. Is wrong, and therefore a THREAT to you, and your Brotherhood of Hypocrites.

[Missileman]

I am of the opinion that vigilantism is a bad thing. Confronting an armed assailant is best left to a well trained police or security officer.

I'm willing to cut you some slack because I believe English is not your primary language, but here's the deal...consult a dictionary and read the definition of vigilante. You are not applying the correct meaning to the word. It has nothing to do with a civilian stopping or preventing a crime. If one were to apply your incorrect use, then self-defense would be an act of vigilanteism, which, of course, it is not.

[gabosaurus]

From what I have read about the shooting, and the fact that some have identified the shooter as a white male, it appears that this is the act of an ignorant domestic terrorist who doesn't know the difference between a Sikh and a Muslim.
There are those who feel that anyone who bears a resemblance to someone of Middle Eastern heritage should be regarded as a "Muslim terrorist." These are stupid, cowardly people who take it upon themselves to avenge the purported "wrongs" committed by extremists.
It all starts with hate speech and feelings of anger and bitterness. Often the individual begins with hateful condemnations on their personal web sites and message board. There indignation grows to the point where they feel the need to take action.
Often these people consider themselves as "patriots." In actuality, they are random cowards who hide beneath the veil of anonymity until they need to take action. These people are not true Americans. They are terrorists as hateful and despicable as any Muslim extremist in existence.
Hate and vitriol are not patriotic. Those who practice it are demented psychopaths who makes us all look bad.

[jimnyc]

From what I have read about the shooting, and the fact that some have identified the shooter as a white male, it appears that this is the act of an ignorant domestic terrorist who doesn't know the difference between a Sikh and a Muslim.
There are those who feel that anyone who bears a resemblance to someone of Middle Eastern heritage should be regarded as a "Muslim terrorist." These are stupid, cowardly people who take it upon themselves to avenge the purported "wrongs" committed by extremists.
It all starts with hate speech and feelings of anger and bitterness. Often the individual begins with hateful condemnations on their personal web sites and message board. There indignation grows to the point where they feel the need to take action.
Often these people consider themselves as "patriots." In actuality, they are random cowards who hide beneath the veil of anonymity until they need to take action. These people are not true Americans. They are terrorists as hateful and despicable as any Muslim extremist in existence.
Hate and vitriol are not patriotic. Those who practice it are demented psychopaths who makes us all look bad.

Damn, you could be correct, but one would think you would wait for further facts before psychoanalyzing the guy. For all we know he had a girlfriend in there and went nuts over something like that. We barely know anything at all, other than a small handful of facts. I think we should wait for my before starting in with the domestic terrorist, middle east and anti-muslim stuff.

[Anton Chigurh]

Bigotry, a lack of education, right wing extremist propaganda and easy access to guns combine to make this kind of situation.You mean, violent rhetoric such as this?

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,”

“Argue With Neighbors, Get In Their Face”

“I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry. I’m angry.”

“I know they are gearing up for a fight as we speak. My message to them is this: so am I.”

“If you get hit, we will punch back twice as hard.”

“punish our enemies”

“I will be happy to see them test whether or not I’m itching for a fight, I suspect they will find I am."

"That means that we are going to have just hand-to-hand combat up here"

“We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“

[gabosaurus]

Jim, I am only passing on what some in Milwaukee are saying. You can follow the investigation yourself if you wish.

http://www.jsonline.com/

Anton, you are stating that non-extremists hold the same viewpoints as extremists. Jafar appears to be very moderate to me. He is defending his faith in the same manner you would.

[hjmick]

You mean, violent rhetoric such as this?

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,”

“Argue With Neighbors, Get In Their Face”

“I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry. I’m angry.”

“I know they are gearing up for a fight as we speak. My message to them is this: so am I.”

“If you get hit, we will punch back twice as hard.”

“punish our enemies”

“I will be happy to see them test whether or not I’m itching for a fight, I suspect they will find I am."

"That means that we are going to have just hand-to-hand combat up here"

“We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“

Gotta love our President...

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Jim, I am only passing on what some in Milwaukee are saying. You can follow the investigation yourself if you wish.

http://www.jsonline.com/

Anton, you are stating that non-extremists hold the same viewpoints as extremists. Jafar appears to be very moderate to me. He is defending his faith in the same manner you would.

haha, all Anton's quotes in that post were words obama spoke and its verifiably true too.
So you just called your beloved obama an extremist! Which I find to just be so delightfully rich!-:laugh2::laugh::laugh2:--Tyr

[jimnyc]

Jim, I am only passing on what some in Milwaukee are saying. You can follow the investigation yourself if you wish.

http://www.jsonline.com/

Anton, you are stating that non-extremists hold the same viewpoints as extremists. Jafar appears to be very moderate to me. He is defending his faith in the same manner you would.

I'd say the same to them too! Look at how quickly things went with the case of Trayvon Martin. People had that case tried and convicted before the end of the week, and the things that were initially told to us and discussed changed about 76 times so far.

[jafar00]

You've made this mistake previously and never commented again. So I'll correct you again. Someone responding with a gun in the midst of an attack, and tries to stop an assailant, that IS NOT vigilantism. It's close, admittedly, but a vigilante sets out to AVENGE a crime, not PREVENT a crime.

I'm willing to cut you some slack because I believe English is not your primary language, but here's the deal...consult a dictionary and read the definition of vigilante. You are not applying the correct meaning to the word. It has nothing to do with a civilian stopping or preventing a crime. If one were to apply your incorrect use, then self-defense would be an act of vigilanteism, which, of course, it is not.

I'm Australian Missileman. Just so you know :)

What is the definition of a vigilante?


A vigilante is a private individual (or (pl.) group of individuals) who undertakes law enforcement without legal authority.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilante

The above definition fits in with what I am saying which is that having a bunch of civilians running around with guns thinking that have the right to shoot anyone they please is not a good idea at all. Law enforcement is best left to those who are trained for it and who have been given the authority to do so by the state.



Forget jafar.
In reference to his mindless claim about a vigilante type of talk here.
There is a Police Officer who was DOING HIS JOB jafar, who is now in a hospital with many wounds that threaten his life.
His being there and possibly protecting the lives of ALL OF THE OTHER PEOPLE there, was not, and could never be classified...as you have done, as any form of vigilante in nature.
You Continue to NEED, and WANT, if not DEMAND that only your views on everything are correct, while everyone else who dares to disagree with you...in any way. Is wrong, and therefore a THREAT to you, and your Brotherhood of Hypocrites.


A police officer cannot be a vigilante can he? He was doing his job and selflessly I might add too. I hope he is alright and heals quickly.

[jimnyc]

I'm Australian Missileman. Just so you know :)

What is the definition of a vigilante?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilante

The above definition fits in with what I am saying which is that having a bunch of civilians running around with guns thinking that have the right to shoot anyone they please is not a good idea at all. Law enforcement is best left to those who are trained for it and who have been given the authority to do so by the state.

In cases in which we describe, these people are not taking the law into their hands, they are not sentencing anyone and not upholding any laws - they are simply defending themselves and others.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

haha, all Anton's quotes in that post were words obama spoke and its verifiably true too.
So you just called your beloved obama an extremist! Which I find to just be so delightfully rich!-:laugh2::laugh::laugh2:--Tyr

When are you going to admit that he is also a "muslim in hiding".;)

[Anton Chigurh]

Anton, you are stating that non-extremists hold the same viewpoints as extremists. Jafar appears to be very moderate to me. He is defending his faith in the same manner you would.Nonsense. I, unlike him, cited specific examples of violent rhetoric. Expecting him to reciprocate is the same as expecting honesty from him - zero chance.

I don't "defend faith."

[Nell's Room]

Why do I have a feeling that this was some racist moron who doesn't know the difference between Sikhs and Muslims?

Not that shooting Muslims would make it okay...

That was my first thought, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was right.

[grannyhawkins]

I am not a member of Ikhwan.



The generosity of US citizens when it comes to charity is appreciated by those in need the world over. :dance: However that has nothing to do with the subject.



I am of the opinion that vigilantism is a bad thing. Confronting an armed assailant is best left to a well trained police or security officer.


“As the old saying goes, when seconds count the police are just minutes away.”

[red state]

haha, all Anton's quotes in that post were words obama spoke and its verifiably true too.
So you just called your beloved obama an extremist! Which I find to just be so delightfully rich!-:laugh2::laugh::laugh2:--Tyr

RICH and ACCURATE! I've always said; If the shoe fits, wear it. HA! And the other comment about vigilantism...WOW!??

I agree, we should hold off on more evidence but it is clear that the media is ALWAYS hasty to label the shooter a Christian-RIGHT-Wing terrorist. I personally believe that this guy is simply a nut...just as the shooter from two weeks ago was simply a nut (with NO ties to the tea party or conservative ideals). He was also NOT a gun entusiast as most gun enthusiast have been lovers of guns for quite a while and gradually built up a nice collection. He was an "over nite sensation".

QUESTION: Have Islam and Hindu followers not had very nasty run-ins before? I believe that Islam has a score to settle with Sikh's...but then again, muSLUMs seem to have a "beef" with ALL other religions. My last two questions, which coincides with the last is: Are there any WHITE muSLUMs? Who's to say that this guy in a white shirt, black pants and a 911 tattoo isn't a muSLUM? muSLUMs are allowed to deceive the enemy and are actually encouraged in most cases to flat out lie to their "enemies". The 911 tat could be in honor of those like him who drove the planes.

Just saying...if we want to EXPLORE possibilities, let's cover ALL possibilities. I just wish these Sikhs has kicked this gunman's @$$ just as they have kicked muSLUM @$$ long, long ago. And for the record, I'd jump up and down with joy if this had been a mosque and the shooter was quickly put down with not even a scratch to the muSLUMs. It would have proved OUR point that the 2nd Amendment really does work (as with the 2nd Amender who stopped the "knife enthusiast". Should we ban knives as well? As for the liberal come-back to that question...I know plenty of folks who are quite "handy" in throwing knives (or slinging arrows). We should ban archery and all martial arts (for the security of "the people").

[red state]

“As the old saying goes, when seconds count the police are just minutes away.”

Some even wait till the dust and smoke has cleared, take their last bite of their doughnut and HOPE that they're the last on the scene so that they don't have to fill out paperwork. Those that do show up and are heroes are usually too little too late (as with the temple shooting). The first officer on the scene fell victim to the shooter while the second officer simply FELL the shooter. I sure wish the Batman Shooter had met the same outcome. Would have saved us all a lot of tax money and would have been a lot easier on the families. Still, the PERFECT outcome would have been for a "vigilante" to have been there to PROMPTLY put both dogs DOWN!

3808

[jafar00]

RICH and ACCURATE! I've always said; If the shoe fits, wear it. HA! And the other comment about vigilantism...WOW!??

I agree, we should hold off on more evidence but it is clear that the media is ALWAYS hasty to label the shooter a Christian-RIGHT-Wing terrorist. I personally believe that this guy is simply a nut...just as the shooter from two weeks ago was simply a nut (with NO ties to the tea party or conservative ideals). He was also NOT a gun entusiast as most gun enthusiast have been lovers of guns for quite a while and gradually built up a nice collection. He was an "over nite sensation".

QUESTION: Have Islam and Hindu followers not had very nasty run-ins before? I believe that Islam has a score to settle with Sikh's...but then again, muSLUMs seem to have a "beef" with ALL other religions. My last two questions, which coincides with the last is: Are there any WHITE muSLUMs? Who's to say that this guy in a white shirt, black pants and a 911 tattoo isn't a muSLUM? muSLUMs are allowed to deceive the enemy and are actually encouraged in most cases to flat out lie to their "enemies". The 911 tat could be in honor of those like him who drove the planes.

Just saying...if we want to EXPLORE possibilities, let's cover ALL possibilities. I just wish these Sikhs has kicked this gunman's @$$ just as they have kicked muSLUM @$$ long, long ago. And for the record, I'd jump up and down with joy if this had been a mosque and the shooter was quickly put down with not even a scratch to the muSLUMs. It would have proved OUR point that the 2nd Amendment really does work (as with the 2nd Amender who stopped the "knife enthusiast". Should we ban knives as well? As for the liberal come-back to that question...I know plenty of folks who are quite "handy" in throwing knives (or slinging arrows). We should ban archery and all martial arts (for the security of "the people").

It's pure hateful bile like you post regularly that led to this and other incidents happening. I hope you are proud of yourself.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

RICH and ACCURATE! I've always said; If the shoe fits, wear it. HA! And the other comment about vigilantism...WOW!??

I agree, we should hold off on more evidence but it is clear that the media is ALWAYS hasty to label the shooter a Christian-RIGHT-Wing terrorist. I personally believe that this guy is simply a nut...just as the shooter from two weeks ago was simply a nut (with NO ties to the tea party or conservative ideals). He was also NOT a gun entusiast as most gun enthusiast have been lovers of guns for quite a while and gradually built up a nice collection. He was an "over nite sensation".

QUESTION: Have Islam and Hindu followers not had very nasty run-ins before? I believe that Islam has a score to settle with Sikh's...but then again, muSLUMs seem to have a "beef" with ALL other religions. My last two questions, which coincides with the last is: Are there any WHITE muSLUMs? Who's to say that this guy in a white shirt, black pants and a 911 tattoo isn't a muSLUM? muSLUMs are allowed to deceive the enemy and are actually encouraged in most cases to flat out lie to their "enemies". The 911 tat could be in honor of those like him who drove the planes.

Just saying...if we want to EXPLORE possibilities, let's cover ALL possibilities. I just wish these Sikhs has kicked this gunman's @$$ just as they have kicked muSLUM @$$ long, long ago. And for the record, I'd jump up and down with joy if this had been a mosque and the shooter was quickly put down with not even a scratch to the muSLUMs. It would have proved OUR point that the 2nd Amendment really does work (as with the 2nd Amender who stopped the "knife enthusiast". Should we ban knives as well? As for the liberal come-back to that question...I know plenty of folks who are quite "handy" in throwing knives (or slinging arrows). We should ban archery and all martial arts (for the security of "the people").

Hands and feet can be deadly weapons , should we ban those too? This ban crap isnt about promoting the safety of the citizens. It is about making the citizens more apt to be subservient to the STATE! The weaker the masses the stronger the government! Yes, its just that simple. And our government got caught trying to gin up a border crisis by giving automatic weapons to the drug cartels in Mexico. So they could later claim those guns came from American gun dealers , then write ever more restrictive anti-gun laws. When a crisis doesnt come along they just create one! Now obama has had to declare Executive privilege to save his sorry ASS! No way did he want the TRUTH about Fast and Furious coming out before the election votes are cast in November! He is deep into it up to his big ears and knows that means he perjured himself by stating having no knowledge of it at all! As well as authorising an illegal operation for a socialist political agenda and gain. Nixon was forced out for far, far less..-Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

It's pure hateful bile like you post regularly that led to this and other incidents happening. I hope you are proud of yourself.

^^^^ That is pure poppycock and you know it! First you do not even know why the shooter did what he did.
Secondly, my friend redstate hasnt inspired anybody to be a murderer. However you have defended Murdering Islamists that are "provoked" into acting out , right? Or do you openly denounce all Jihad attackers here and now?
Man up or else admit your bias and excuse making is foolish.-Tyr

[gabosaurus]

^^^^ That is pure poppycock and you know it! First you do not even know why the shooter did what he did.
Secondly, my friend redstate hasnt inspired anybody to be a murderer. However you have defended Murdering Islamists that are "provoked" into acting out , right? Or do you openly denounce all Jihad attackers here and now?
Man up or else admit your bias and excuse making is foolish.-Tyr

You guys don't have enough nads to be murderers. And the only people you inspire are other extremist kooks.

[jafar00]

^^^^ That is pure poppycock and you know it! First you do not even know why the shooter did what he did.
Secondly, my friend redstate hasnt inspired anybody to be a murderer. However you have defended Murdering Islamists that are "provoked" into acting out , right? Or do you openly denounce all Jihad attackers here and now?
Man up or else admit your bias and excuse making is foolish.-Tyr

Anders Brievik was fond of right wing extremism. In fact, that was what led him to massacre 69 innocent people, mostly teenagers.

Your hate is breeding mass murderers.

[gabosaurus]

I'd say the same to them too! Look at how quickly things went with the case of Trayvon Martin. People had that case tried and convicted before the end of the week, and the things that were initially told to us and discussed changed about 76 times so far.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/shooter-described-as-white-army-vet-in-his-40s-ai6ck9q-165092276.html


Authorities would not divulge the identity of the suspect in the Sikh temple shootings, and did not describe his motive other than to label his actions as "domestic terrorism."

A few details did emerge about the man whose Cudahy duplex apartment was searched by police hours after the shooting. He was described as white, single, in his 40s and an Army veteran.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Anders Brievik was fond of right wing extremism. In fact, that was what led him to massacre 69 innocent people, mostly teenagers.


Your hate is breeding mass murderers.
haha, your religion is breeding baby slayers and cowards that hide behind women and children when they arent blowing them up for Allah!

Yep, a common thing these days. The alliance of a lefty (Gabby) and a muslim that supports Jihad and murdering of innocent women and children in Allah's name. Posts 43 and 44 HERE go together like crap and tissue paper. What a pair one very ignorant AWESTRUCK mutt and a MUSLIM Jeff!
Hey Gabby , play your prayer rug just right and perhaps Jafar will make you one of his cattle, errrr I mean wives.-:laugh2:
Or is he really the muslim neighbor that you bragged about that has got your panties all twisted up into a thang??? :laugh: --Tyr

[SassyLady]

I'm Australian Missileman. Just so you know :)

What is the definition of a vigilante?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilante

The above definition fits in with what I am saying which is that having a bunch of civilians running around with guns thinking that have the right to shoot anyone they please is not a good idea at all. Law enforcement is best left to those who are trained for it and who have been given the authority to do so by the state.



A police officer cannot be a vigilante can he? He was doing his job and selflessly I might add too. I hope he is alright and heals quickly.

You are definitely one of the sheep ......

We do have a legal right to use our guns to defend ourselves. It's called self defense....not vigilantism.

[jafar00]

haha, your religion is breeding baby slayers and cowards that hide behind women and children when they arent blowing them up for Allah!

Yep, a common thing these days. The alliance of a lefty (Gabby) and a muslim that supports Jihad and murdering of innocent women and children in Allah's name. Posts 43 and 44 HERE go together like crap and tissue paper. What a pair one very ignorant AWESTRUCK mutt and a MUSLIM Jeff!
Hey Gabby , play your prayer rug just right and perhaps Jafar will make you one of his cattle, errrr I mean wives.-:laugh2:
Or is he really the muslim neighbor that you bragged about that has got your panties all twisted up into a thang??? :laugh: --Tyr

You are such a charmer.

And no, my wife would not accept a second wife, also I love her with all my heart and don't have room for another. Your bigoted view of Muslims is a little disturbing.


You are definitely one of the sheep ......

We do have a legal right to use our guns to defend ourselves. It's called self defense....not vigilantism.

Feeling the need to carry a gun just in case you need it is sad and just a little bit loopy from where I come from. Once you use the gun to "take down" someone else who is perhaps a criminal, and you are not an office of the law, you become a vigilante. Actually it becomes even more risky for you. What if you pulled a weapon out while a gunman was on the loose and another concealed weapon carrier though you were another crazy gun nut on a killing rampage and shot you? What if the police arrived and saw a bunch of people with guns and shot you all as armed terrorists?

It could get out of hand.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You are definitely one of the sheep ......

We do have a legal right to use our guns to defend ourselves. It's called self defense....not vigilantism.

Or he is a wolf in sheep clothing ! Playing a reasonably moderate muslim until one pushes the right buttons and then we see his radical views in his defense of the indefensible acts of terrorist murderers of innocent people , usually women and children!-Tyr

[Indofred]

If its some crazy Muslim killing Sikhs - 'Look at the religion of peace at work, the media will no doubt say he was some crazy extremist, separating him from 'mainstream' Muslims', if it bothers to cover the story much at all.

If it's some crazy Christian killing Sikhs - 'Look at how much attention the media is giving this story, trying to make it look as if this guy is associated with mainstream Christians, rather than the crazy extremist he obviously is.'

What if it's a crazy white tea party pillock?

[Indofred]

What if it's a crazy white tea party pillock?

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/05/us/wisconsin-temple-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

K
aleka was not at the temple at the time of the shooting, but helped police interview witnesses in the aftermath. He said members described the attacker as a bald, white man, dressed in a white T-shirt and black pants and with a 9/11 tattoo on one arm -- which "implies to me that there's some level of hate crime there."

Looks like a right wing hater.
Time will tell.

[jafar00]

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/05/us/wisconsin-temple-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

K

Looks like a right wing hater.
Time will tell.

Yep. A typical brainless hater.

[jimnyc]

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/shooter-described-as-white-army-vet-in-his-40s-ai6ck9q-165092276.html

I understand that, and like I said, their characterizations are much too early as yours are. We need LOTS of facts before armchair quarterbacking this one.

[jimnyc]

Feeling the need to carry a gun just in case you need it is sad and just a little bit loopy from where I come from. Once you use the gun to "take down" someone else who is perhaps a criminal, and you are not an office of the law, you become a vigilante. Actually it becomes even more risky for you. What if you pulled a weapon out while a gunman was on the loose and another concealed weapon carrier though you were another crazy gun nut on a killing rampage and shot you? What if the police arrived and saw a bunch of people with guns and shot you all as armed terrorists?

It could get out of hand.

Sorry, Jafar, just not true, at least not in this half of the world. We call vigilantes people who set out to take the law into their own hands, plan it, execute it, and deliver a verdict. These are people that set out to kill criminals or the like, not those who end up doing so in the process of self defense.

[jimnyc]

What if it's a crazy white tea party pillock?


http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/05/us/wisconsin-temple-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

K

Looks like a right wing hater.
Time will tell.

Not a single thing that has come out will support "right wing" or "tea party". Does a 9/11 tattoo mean hate crime to you? Do only right wing extremists want to memorialize 9/11? No, sorry, we don't know much about this guy yet, and certainly not his politics, or whether or not politics even played a part. Could have just been a nut with no politics involved at all.

[jimnyc]

Yep. A typical brainless hater.

Likely, but "brainless hater" does not equal "right wing" as indofred and others rushing to blame are trying to say.

[red state]

Well, I'll be a Vigilante ANY DAY before I'm a victim to a muSLUM who likes it when their citezens are subservient dogs. And for the record, I am very proud of myself. I've managed to experience and KEEP the American Dream. I'm my own man, debt free and don't take crap from anyone...especially crap berries like you. Fact of the matter is, this crap berry didn't even read my comment. Either that or he didn't know how to reply. My question to you is: Would YOU jump up and down if a bunch of Jews at a Synagog shot up a scumbag, muSLUM dog for attempting the same thing that the skin-head committed? Waiting.

Tyr, while I wait (and I assume I'll be waiting till quitin' time today), I believe you got it right the first time..."cow" is exactly how muSLUMs like their women (covered up and wearing a bell so that they know they aren't going around behind their back). Need a little milk...TAKE it. Need a new cow...have steak and go shopping afterwards. I'd like to know if anyone here would be OK with waiting on the cops if the shooter was a Christian Right Wing Nut who is shooting up a bath house or a mosque? I'm perfectly OK with waiting on the cops if they are. I'd probably try to save lives BUT I wouldn't take a bullet or take the risks that I would if they tried this at my church or home. I'll defend anyone (if possible and regardless of how disgusting they may be) but I'll lay my life on the line for Christ, family, brethren, Constitution and friends. Worth comes into play and if there are those who would TAKE my freedom away then they deserve to wait on the cops or wait on me to get into a safe position to take the crazed gunman out. I'm proud and most definitely worth MUCH more than those who prefer this Nation or their country to be more like that of Nazi Germany. I've said it before and I'll say it again. One of our soldiers is worth 10,000 of their citizens whom we protect...they need to come home and we need to have security HERE at our borders. If necessary, one National Guardsman should/could be posted at ALL religious and entertainment areas....that is (IF) and (SINCE) the liberals want to disarm patriots.

Mr. Page was NOT a patriot and had a dis-honorable discharge from the Army. This type disgusts me because they are the element that is fueling the fire that takes away the freedoms of REAL Americans/Patriots. Sorry to disappoint the ilk within this board but this guy was simply a loser...like most of those punk-rock types at the occupy movement. Nice dream to have if your a lil' lemming though.

3809

[jimnyc]

Here's an article I just finished reading. The shooter is former military of 6 years, '92-'98 and was a "psychological operations specialist" of all things. They're also saying he was a white supremacist and skinhead. If this all holds true, it surely explains his line of thinking.

But this doesn't mean he is "right wing" and certainly doesn't mean he is a tea party member. These are things people jump to instantly to try and make it political, and to try and take advantage of the tragedy by laying blame to a political party or platform. I've sort of known skinheads before, which most are naturally white supremacists, and they didn't even give a crap about politics, just their goals built out of their hatred.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/sikh-temple-shooting-suspect-u-army-wade-michael-123748845.html

[Neo]

Bigotry, a lack of education, right wing extremist propaganda and easy access to guns combine to make this kind of situation.

I am put in mind of the following saying, "It is better to to be silent and look the fool than to open your mouth and confirm it ".

I'd STFU and quit while you're a head?

Sheesh! Why do Libs have to b such pinheads?

Nevermind, rhetorical question.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Well, I'll be a Vigilante ANY DAY before I'm a victim to a muSLUM who likes it when their citezens are subservient dogs. And for the record, I am very proud of myself. I've managed to experience and KEEP the American Dream. I'm my own man, debt free and don't take crap from anyone...especially crap berries like you. Fact of the matter is, this crap berry didn't even read my comment. Either that or he didn't know how to reply. My question to you is: Would YOU jump up and down if a bunch of Jews at a Synagog shot up a scumbag, muSLUM dog for attempting the same thing that the skin-head committed? Waiting.

Tyr, while I wait (and I assume I'll be waiting till quitin' time today), I believe you got it right the first time..."cow" is exactly how muSLUMs like their women (covered up and wearing a bell so that they know they aren't going around behind their back). Need a little milk...TAKE it. Need a new cow...have steak and go shopping afterwards. I'd like to know if anyone here would be OK with waiting on the cops if the shooter was a Christian Right Wing Nut who is shooting up a bath house or a mosque? I'm perfectly OK with waiting on the cops if they are. I'd probably try to save lives BUT I wouldn't take a bullet or take the risks that I would if they tried this at my church or home. I'll defend anyone (if possible and regardless of how disgusting they may be) but I'll lay my life on the line for Christ, family, brethren, Constitution and friends. Worth comes into play and if there are those who would TAKE my freedom away then they deserve to wait on the cops or wait on me to get into a safe position to take the crazed gunman out. I'm proud and most definitely worth MUCH more than those who prefer this Nation or their country to be more like that of Nazi Germany. I've said it before and I'll say it again. One of our soldiers is worth 10,000 of their citizens whom we protect...they need to come home and we need to have security HERE at our borders. If necessary, one National Guardsman should/could be posted at ALL religious and entertainment areas....that is (IF) and (SINCE) the liberals want to disarm patriots.

Mr. Page was NOT a patriot and had a dis-honorable discharge from the Army. This type disgusts me because they are the element that is fueling the fire that takes away the freedoms of REAL Americans/Patriots. Sorry to disappoint the ilk within this board but this guy was simply a loser...like most of those punk-rock types at the occupy movement. Nice dream to have if your a lil' lemming though.

3809

I am as proud of that rant of yours as if I had written it myself!!! BRAVO!-:clap:--:beer: :salute: :beer:--Tyr

[red state]

What rant?!!! I was being nice and extremely logical!


Perhaps jafar went to bed or is still thinking. I'm still waiting on what jafar thinks of a jew shooting down a muSLUM synagog shooter. Of course, jafar must be careful with any answer cuz his e-mommy may be watching, listening....reading. We all know how dangerous it is to voice one's opinion within the cult of isSLUM. They are either ignorant, fact-less or like MOST muSLUMs (wife beating cowards)!

Rant?! REAlly? If I had more time, you'd see a REAL rant but unfortunately, I have an Aussie who will be emailing me in about 3 or 4 hours and I haven't completed my edit on the current image yet.

Since we write so much alike....just go ahead and respond in my stead IF or WHEN jafar has thought about the question and wants to pipe up. I'll check into DP a little later on tonight.

[red state]

Being a psychiatrist in the ARMY must be rough! I wonder if B.O. and crew will be as "rough" as they were on the Fort Hood psychiatrist? Just saying...proof is in the pudding!!!

[gabosaurus]

The Southern Poverty Law Center (http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2012/08/06/bulletin-alleged-sikh-temple-shooter-member-of-neo-nazi-group/), a group that has studied hate crimes for decades, reported Monday that Page was a frustrated neo-Nazi who had been the leader of a racist white-power band known as End Apathy (http://www.myspace.com/endapathyband).

I have been reading some of the rantings and beliefs of the alleged Milwaukee shooters. He could post in red on this forum and fit in pretty easily.

[Little-Acorn]

The Southern Poverty Law Center, a group that has studied hate crimes for decades, reported Monday that Page was a frustrated neo-Nazi
In other words, he is a liberal socialist who wants more govt control over everything and everyone, who notices ethnicity and skin color before anything else, and wants to use to power of guns and government to force people to go along with him even if they disagree.

[jimnyc]

I have been reading some of the rantings and beliefs of the alleged Milwaukee shooters. He could post in red on this forum and fit in pretty easily.

You're coming awfully close on many occasions to calling members here terrorists and people ready to commit massive crimes. This is way out of line. If it were once, I would overlook it, but your comments are consistent. If you truly believe this, go ahead and report it to the FBI, but I'm not going to continue to tolerate people accusing other members of perhaps being criminals or worse. And I'm tired of it being told similarly towards Muslim folks. Enough. Not agreeing with another is no reason to more or less accuse one another of being complicit in heinous crimes or activities.

[gabosaurus]

You're coming awfully close on many occasions to calling members here terrorists and people ready to commit massive crimes. This is way out of line. If it were once, I would overlook it, but your comments are consistent. If you truly believe this, go ahead and report it to the FBI, but I'm not going to continue to tolerate people accusing other members of perhaps being criminals or worse. And I'm tired of it being told similarly towards Muslim folks. Enough. Not agreeing with another is no reason to more or less accuse one another of being complicit in heinous crimes or activities.

I am not talking about participating in heinous crimes. Or accusing anyone of being a terrorist. I am ONLY comparing their beliefs.
A couple of there guys allegedly are/were on Stormfront, among other boards. Some of their comments about Muslims (and other races) are chillingly similar to things I have read here.
Read my post again and you will see where I am coming from.

[Little-Acorn]

I am not talking about participating in heinous crimes. Or accusing anyone of being a terrorist. I am ONLY comparing their beliefs.
That sound you just heard was little gabby turning and running away from her earlier comments with her tail clamped firmly between her hind legs.

Again.

As usual.

Until she figures enough time has passed that people will have forgotten, and she can start up with the same accusations again.

As usual.



Read my post again
Oh gawd, do we have to??? What did we do to deserve being sentenced to THAT?

[jimnyc]

I am not talking about participating in heinous crimes. Or accusing anyone of being a terrorist. I am ONLY comparing their beliefs.
A couple of there guys allegedly are/were on Stormfront, among other boards. Some of their comments about Muslims (and other races) are chillingly similar to things I have read here.
Read my post again and you will see where I am coming from.

If that's the case, that is fine. It just comes across at times that you are saying some of these guys fit the profile and are likely planning crimes. I wasn't aware that anyone from here was a participating member st Stormfront. I only remember one member from the past, WJ, if his initials ring a bell.

Anyway, I'm just trying to make sure none of us goes over that line and we start accusing one another of being terrorists or criminals. My apologies if I jumped the gun.

[gabosaurus]

I wasn't talking about anyone here being on Stormfront. I was referring to the alleged Milwaukee shooter.
I was also pointing out what happens when someone gets so overloaded with their feeling of extreme hatred that they turn to violence. It starts with thought and then progresses to deeds.

[Little-Acorn]

If that's the case,
A very big IF.


My apologies if I jumped the gun.
You didn't.

[jafar00]

Sorry, Jafar, just not true, at least not in this half of the world. We call vigilantes people who set out to take the law into their own hands, plan it, execute it, and deliver a verdict. These are people that set out to kill criminals or the like, not those who end up doing so in the process of self defense.

Isn't arming yourself just in case there is another gunman so you can take him down before the police, the very definition of a vigilante?


Likely, but "brainless hater" does not equal "right wing" as indofred and others rushing to blame are trying to say.

Right supremacism is about as far to the extreme right as you can get.


Well, I'll be a Vigilante ANY DAY before I'm a victim to a muSLUM who likes it when their citezens are subservient dogs. And for the record, I am very proud of myself. I've managed to experience and KEEP the American Dream. I'm my own man, debt free and don't take crap from anyone...especially crap berries like you. Fact of the matter is, this crap berry didn't even read my comment. Either that or he didn't know how to reply. My question to you is: Would YOU jump up and down if a bunch of Jews at a Synagog shot up a scumbag, muSLUM dog for attempting the same thing that the skin-head committed? Waiting.

I would say that the gunman deserved to die like any murderer. It would be a self serving Sharia punishment.


Tyr, while I wait (and I assume I'll be waiting till quitin' time today), I believe you got it right the first time..."cow" is exactly how muSLUMs like their women (covered up and wearing a bell so that they know they aren't going around behind their back). Need a little milk...TAKE it. Need a new cow...have steak and go shopping afterwards. I'd like to know if anyone here would be OK with waiting on the cops if the shooter was a Christian Right Wing Nut who is shooting up a bath house or a mosque? I'm perfectly OK with waiting on the cops if they are. I'd probably try to save lives BUT I wouldn't take a bullet or take the risks that I would if they tried this at my church or home. I'll defend anyone (if possible and regardless of how disgusting they may be) but I'll lay my life on the line for Christ, family, brethren, Constitution and friends. Worth comes into play and if there are those who would TAKE my freedom away then they deserve to wait on the cops or wait on me to get into a safe position to take the crazed gunman out. I'm proud and most definitely worth MUCH more than those who prefer this Nation or their country to be more like that of Nazi Germany. I've said it before and I'll say it again. One of our soldiers is worth 10,000 of their citizens whom we protect...they need to come home and we need to have security HERE at our borders. If necessary, one National Guardsman should/could be posted at ALL religious and entertainment areas....that is (IF) and (SINCE) the liberals want to disarm patriots.

Mr. Page was NOT a patriot and had a dis-honorable discharge from the Army. This type disgusts me because they are the element that is fueling the fire that takes away the freedoms of REAL Americans/Patriots. Sorry to disappoint the ilk within this board but this guy was simply a loser...like most of those punk-rock types at the occupy movement. Nice dream to have if your a lil' lemming though.

3809

You, this nutcase and Brievik..... like peas in a pod....

[Little-Acorn]

Isn't arming yourself just in case there is another gunman so you can take him down before the police, the very definition of a vigilante?


Where on Earth do you get these weird "definitions"?

Nobody could possibly be as consistently wrong as you have been with these recent posts.

You must be reading them someplace else.

[jimnyc]

Isn't arming yourself just in case there is another gunman so you can take him down before the police, the very definition of a vigilante?

No, it's not. I thought I already told you the definition. A vigilante is someone that sets out to avenge a wrong, to deliver punishment. Not a single person I am aware of carries a weapon so that they can take someone down before the police. In fact, most would PREFER a policeman intervene before they have to. Most gun owners NEVER want to shoot anyone. But if to save their life, or another, they sometimes might have to. That does not make them a vigilante


Right supremacism is about as far to the extreme right as you can get.

Funny you would slip and call it "right supremacism" when he's been noted to be a WHITE extremist. A white extremist can be a conservative or liberal, left or right, or no interest in politics whatsoever. I'm saying, that his position of being this white supremacist, does NOT mean he is "right wing", which would mean to the right in politics.

[jafar00]

No, it's not. I thought I already told you the definition. A vigilante is someone that sets out to avenge a wrong, to deliver punishment. Not a single person I am aware of carries a weapon so that they can take someone down before the police. In fact, most would PREFER a policeman intervene before they have to. Most gun owners NEVER want to shoot anyone. But if to save their life, or another, they sometimes might have to. That does not make them a vigilante

A vigilante takes the law into his own hands right? Isn't that what you are doing when you carry a gun planning to use it on anyone who uses theirs the wrong way?


Funny you would slip and call it "right supremacism" when he's been noted to be a WHITE extremist. A white extremist can be a conservative or liberal, left or right, or no interest in politics whatsoever. I'm saying, that his position of being this white supremacist, does NOT mean he is "right wing", which would mean to the right in politics.

Sorry. At 5am my coffee hadn't kicked in. I meant White Supremacism.

[jimnyc]

A vigilante takes the law into his own hands right? Isn't that what you are doing when you carry a gun planning to use it on anyone who uses theirs the wrong way?

Absolutely not. Self defense is not taking the law into your own hands. Should these people take death instead, this way they don't get labeled a vigilante? I don't know how many times I have to say the same thing, a vigilante sets out, KNOWING HE IS SHOOTING before he even steps out the door. He has a mission, and it's vengeance. He's acting as jury, judge and executioner. I can guarantee you that those shooting in self defense had no idea when they left their homes that they would be pulling the trigger that day. Look up and understand "intent". Some would say that they venture out with the intent of meting out justice. If you still think one utilizing self defense is a vigilante, then we'll just have to disagree.


Sorry. At 5am my coffee hadn't kicked in. I meant White Supremacism.

No problem. But yes, that's what they say about him, but it doesn't mean he is RIGHT WING, which some tried to say within minutes of the shooting.

[Missileman]

I'm Australian Missileman. Just so you know :)

What is the definition of a vigilante?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilante

The above definition fits in with what I am saying which is that having a bunch of civilians running around with guns thinking that have the right to shoot anyone they please is not a good idea at all. Law enforcement is best left to those who are trained for it and who have been given the authority to do so by the state.


A police officer cannot be a vigilante can he? He was doing his job and selflessly I might add too. I hope he is alright and heals quickly.

A cop can definitely be a vigilante. A vigilante is someone who works outside the law to enact what they deem is justice. Use of deadly force in self defense or in defense of others is LAWFUL.

Civilians who might be running around thinking they have the right to shoot anyone aren't vigilantes, they're criminals, and there's no denying we have some of those. What's totally offensive to anyone with even a smidge of common sense are arguments that taking guns away from law-abiding citizens is going to make criminals stop using guns during their crimes.

Just to be clear...if you saw someone trying to rape your daughter, you wouldn't try to stop them, you'd call the cops?

[jafar00]

A cop can definitely be a vigilante. A vigilante is someone who works outside the law to enact what they deem is justice. Use of deadly force in self defense or in defense of others is LAWFUL.

Civilians who might be running around thinking they have the right to shoot anyone aren't vigilantes, they're criminals, and there's no denying we have some of those. What's totally offensive to anyone with even a smidge of common sense are arguments that taking guns away from law-abiding citizens is going to make criminals stop using guns during their crimes.

Just to be clear...if you saw someone trying to rape your daughter, you wouldn't try to stop them, you'd call the cops?

Of course I would stop the rapist, but I wouldn't be carrying a gun just in case it happened nor would I need a gun to beat the living crap out of him.

[jimnyc]

Of course I would stop the rapist, but I wouldn't be carrying a gun just in case it happened nor would I need a gun to beat the living crap out of him.

Being a vigilante doesn't require a gun. But according to your own logic, YOU would be a vigilante for taking action instead of law enforcement, the only difference being your choice of weapon, whether a gun or your hands. Action is action and assault is assault.

[gabosaurus]

Some actions almost require vigilante justice. Crimes such as rape and assaults against the very young and very old come to mind.
In fact, I know of cases where the punishment fit the crime. Don't feel bad about it either.
What happens on the street needs to stay on the street.

[revelarts]

more cloudy info on the Sikh shooting.

Acorn and kath pposted the 1st reports of 2 shooters. the story turned to 1 shooter but a person on the scene mentions 4 shooters another "multiple" shooters.

weird

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9ecdSKi9_fs?feature=player_embedded" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>


<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1qSt6LoXQ6A?feature=player_embedded" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>

[jimnyc]

What if it's a crazy white tea party pillock?


http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/05/us/wisconsin-temple-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

K

Looks like a right wing hater.
Time will tell.

Any evidence yet to backup your stupid claims? You more or less demanded I give you proof of Ahmedinajad's words, and I did , and you never returned. At least now you can maybe backup YOUR words that this guy may be from the Tea Party or right wing?

[revelarts]

http://www.wisn.com/news/Family-members-recount-calls-from-people-inside-temple/-/9373668/15976894/-/nfyo1x/-/index.html

phone call from women hiding inside.
"they are out there..."

http://www.wisn.com/news/south-east-wisconsin/milwaukee/RAW-Police-provide-timeline-of-shooting/-/10148890/15983444/-/pfwo36z/-/index.html

Police say that they did a search after the fact and are sure it was only one guy.

[jimnyc]

http://www.wisn.com/news/Family-members-recount-calls-from-people-inside-temple/-/9373668/15976894/-/nfyo1x/-/index.html

phone call from women hiding inside.
"they are out there..."

http://www.wisn.com/news/south-east-wisconsin/milwaukee/RAW-Police-provide-timeline-of-shooting/-/10148890/15983444/-/pfwo36z/-/index.html

Police say that they did a search after the fact and are sure it was only one guy.

I'm officially confused now! Are you saying there was in fact more than one shooter here, Rev? Maybe in all the confusion people assumed there was more than one person involved? I wonder if they had security cameras there. I don't really see a reason why this would be anything other than a mistake amongst everything happening.