Cheese doesn't kill people....

[jafar00]

https://p.twimg.com/AzGUcc0CQAA0bMn.jpg
Another quaint way to illustrate how insane US gun laws (or the lack of) are.

[Dilloduck]

https://p.twimg.com/AzGUcc0CQAA0bMn.jpg
Another quaint way to illustrate how insane US gun laws (or the lack of) are.

no no no--that's how stupid cheese laws are

[hjmick]

Tell ya what...

Leave our gun laws alone, if enforced there is no need for more, and I promise to work to get your cheese in the U.S.

Okay?

[fj1200]

Another quaint way to illustrate how insane US gun laws (or the lack of) are.

Can you defend yourself against an oppressive tyrant with cheese?

[Mr. P]

Swiss cheese has bullet holes in it but I don't think they embrace gun ownership so much ..Puzzled.

[Dilloduck]

Swiss cheese has bullet holes in it but I don't think they embrace gun ownership so much ..Puzzled.

Good cheese joke but I think the Swiss are mandated to own at least one firearm. I have no idea why. Guard the banks maybe?

[jafar00]

Can you defend yourself against an oppressive tyrant with cheese?

I dunno. If it's Roquefort, perhaps not. My wife is annoyed enough when I bring Camembert Campaigne (old camembert) which is not as smelly ;)


Good cheese joke but I think the Swiss are mandated to own at least one firearm. I have no idea why. Guard the banks maybe?

fj200's joke is better :)

As for the Swiss, they don't have a regular army. They instead have a trained militia where all able bodied men between 20 and 30 are conscripted and trained regularly and armed. It's the embodiment of the US 2nd Amendment "Well regulated Militia". Each Swiss man has a small amount of ammo that is checked for unauthorised use intended to be used on the way to their barracks in time of crisis.

In my opinion the US gun laws put guns in the hands of the wrong people and encourage vigilantism.

[Nukeman]

I dunno. If it's Roquefort, perhaps not. My wife is annoyed enough when I bring Camembert Campaigne (old camembert) which is not as smelly ;)



fj200's joke is better :)

As for the Swiss, they don't have a regular army. They instead have a trained militia where all able bodied men between 20 and 30 are conscripted and trained regularly and armed. It's the embodiment of the US 2nd Amendment "Well regulated Militia". Each Swiss man has a small amount of ammo that is checked for unauthorised use intended to be used on the way to their barracks in time of crisis.

In my opinion the US gun laws put guns in the hands of the wrong people and encourage vigilantism.Care to show me this "encouraging" of that?? funny how you point to the US gun laws yet everytime I see anything in the middle east EVERYONE has a freaking AK-47.. Hmm don't see many of those around here. In fact few people own any type of automatic weapon in the US most have bolt, lever, pump, single action or semi-auto.


Automatic weapons are ONLY legal if you have the proper license or paperwork filed with the govt, It is NOT legal for just "anyone" to own autmatic weapons... Get your facts straight next time!!!

[taft2012]

One could also say; "Christianity doesn't kill people, Islam kills people."

[CSM]

Care to show me this "encouraging" of that?? funny how you point to the US gun laws yet everytime I see anything in the middle east EVERYONE has a freaking AK-47.. Hmm don't see many of those around here. In fact few people own any type of automatic weapon in the US most have bolt, lever, pump, single action or semi-auto.


Automatic weapons are ONLY legal if you have the proper license or paperwork filed with the govt, It is NOT legal for just "anyone" to own autmatic weapons... Get your facts straight next time!!!


Don't see a lot of RPGs or IEDs laying around the states either but they sure seem to pop up in every newscast from the middle east.

[revelarts]

As for the Swiss, they don't have a regular army. They instead have a trained militia where all able bodied men between 20 and 30 are conscripted and trained regularly and armed. It's the embodiment of the US 2nd Amendment "Well regulated Militia". Each Swiss man has a small amount of ammo that is checked for unauthorised use intended to be used on the way to their barracks in time of crisis.

In my opinion the US gun laws put guns in the hands of the wrong people and encourage vigilantism.
that's not true about the Swiss jafar.

...Swiss military ammo must be registered if bought at a private store, but need not be registered if bought at a range The nation's 3,000 shooting ranges sell the overwhelming majority of ammunition. Technically, ammunition bought at the range must be used at the range, but the rule is barely known and almost never obeyed.
The army sells a variety of machine guns, submachine guns, anti-tank weapons, anti-aircraft guns, howitzers and cannons. Purchasers of these weapons require an easily obtained cantonal license, and the weapons are registered, In a nation of six million people, there are at least two million guns, including 600,00 fully automatic assault rifles, half a million pistols, and numerous machine guns. Virtually every home has a gun.
Besides subsidised military surplus, the Swiss can buy other firearms easily too. While long guns require no special purchase procedures, handguns are sold only to those with a Waffenerwerbsschien (purchase certificate) issued by a cantonal authority. A certificate is issued to every applicant over 18 who is not a criminal or mentally infirm.
There are no restrictions on the carrying of long guns. About half the cantons have strict permit procedures for carrying handguns, and the other half have no rules at all There is no discernible difference in the crime rate between the cantons as a result of the different policies.
Thanks to a lawsuit brought by the Swiss gun lobby, semi-automatic rifles require no purchase permit and are not registered by the government. Thus, the only long guns registered by the government are full automatics. (Three cantons do require collectors of more than 10 guns to register.)
Gun sales from one individual to another are regulated in five cantons and completely uncontrolled in all the rest.
Retail gun dealers do keep records of over-the-counter gun transactions; transactions are not reported to or collected by the government. (This is also the policy in the U.S. during those periods the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms feels like obeying the law.) In Switzerland, purchases from dealers of hunting long guns and of smallbore rifles are not even recorded by the dealer. In other words, the dealer would not record the sale of a .30-06 hunting rifle, but would record the sale of a .30-06 Garand.
Thus, Handgun Control's assertion that all Swiss guns are registered is just plain wrong, and its claim that "Switzerland and Israel strictly control handgun availability" is more than a little inaccurate. ...http://www.guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html


this article is a few years old and some gun control folks are trying to restrict guns but in general The Swiss love their guns as much if not more than Americans.
We'd be better off if our system was a bit closer to their's IMO

[darin]

https://p.twimg.com/AzGUcc0CQAA0bMn.jpg
Another quaint way to illustrate how insane US gun laws (or the lack of) are.


did you read what you wrote there? Did you read the pic? Just going off my fairly-broad knowledge of weapons, half of those are NOT legal to own - at least ONE of them is simply a diagram of an extended arm (2nd to last row, three over from the left - it's simply an extended arm/stalk thing for a pistol).

I see M249s - DEFINITELY not legal...I see AR15/M4's...those are not 'automatic'. My daughter can shoot an AR/M4 pretty well - has been able to since she was 10 years old:


http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3475/3859064823_d281291eac_z.jpg

Course, I also trained her in spear:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3415/3642543794_f29627b1ab_z.jpg

AND - aquatic battle piano

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3648/3641737939_2e8d42f4c0_z.jpg

That last one - lowest right corner? Appears to be a breech-loader. NOT automatic.

So - point is, the photo is fake/innaccurate.

Cheese, OTOH is DELICIOUS!! I'd love to see the FDA simply go away; let everybody be responsible for their own eating habits. :)

Oh - And...if you'd tell other Muslims to stop killing non-believers for the sake of their non-belief, we'd probably need fewer weapons.

:D

[jimnyc]

The Swiss have always been a good analogy for me to use. A place where a certain amount of the population is forced to own guns. Now, look up the stats on crime and murders over there... When done, look up Kennesaw, Georgia.

[jafar00]

Care to show me this "encouraging" of that?? funny how you point to the US gun laws yet everytime I see anything in the middle east EVERYONE has a freaking AK-47.. Hmm don't see many of those around here. In fact few people own any type of automatic weapon in the US most have bolt, lever, pump, single action or semi-auto.


Automatic weapons are ONLY legal if you have the proper license or paperwork filed with the govt, It is NOT legal for just "anyone" to own autmatic weapons... Get your facts straight next time!!!

You need to get your facts straight. The only weapons I have seen in the middle east (and I have traveled there extensively) were being held by police or soldiers. Nobody I know from UAE, Egypt, Morocco, Algeria or Libya has a gun in their house and neither do their friends.

[cadet]

https://p.twimg.com/AzGUcc0CQAA0bMn.jpg
Another quaint way to illustrate how insane US gun laws (or the lack of) are.

I would like to point out that cheese is only illegal if it is not pasteurized correctly, for fear of bacteria killing people. it's health codes.

[jimnyc]

You need to get your facts straight. The only weapons I have seen in the middle east (and I have traveled there extensively) were being held by police or soldiers. Nobody I know from UAE, Egypt, Morocco, Algeria or Libya has a gun in their house and neither do their friends.

A few countries doesn't encompass the Middle East. The Palestinian KIDS alone probably own more AK's than the rest of the world! Well taught little buggers! LOL

http://i.imgur.com/VB0CU.jpg

[jafar00]

A few countries doesn't encompass the Middle East. The Palestinian KIDS alone probably own more AK's than the rest of the world! Well taught little buggers! LOL

http://i.imgur.com/VB0CU.jpg

So, they are holding guns for a photo shoot. It doesn't mean they own them. I haven't been to Palestine but the Palestinians I have met don't have guns despite living in a war zone.

[jimnyc]

So, they are holding guns for a photo shoot. It doesn't mean they own them. I haven't been to Palestine but the Palestinians I have met don't have guns despite living in a war zone.

You really need to get out more or read more. Simply do a search from your favorite search engine and lookup guns, or AK's, in the ME, or your country of choice.

Anyway, even if they didn't own them, and even if it's a photoshoot - do you think that makes it a good thing for the children?

[darin]

You need to get your facts straight. The only weapons I have seen in the middle east (and I have traveled there extensively) were being held by police or soldiers. Nobody I know from UAE, Egypt, Morocco, Algeria or Libya has a gun in their house and neither do their friends.


Okay - fair...they don't have GUNS...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Xn_O-mM2sFk/RsIv8OnHTiI/AAAAAAAAApc/uiXHbuVPWBM/s1600/child_suicide_bomber11.jpg

3790

[logroller]

The Swiss have always been a good analogy for me to use. A place where a certain amount of the population is forced to own guns. Now, look up the stats on crime and murders over there... When done, look up Kennesaw, Georgia.
So too do the Swiss have a health insurance mandate. Yet when I mentioned the Swiss system, I was told it wouldnt scale well for the US-- perhaps the same applies to an armed populace?

[gabosaurus]

I think cheese is perfect safe. It's FRESH FRUIT that we need to be on guard against!!

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/o5gqILMUfaU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[jimnyc]

So too do the Swiss have a health insurance mandate. Yet when I mentioned the Swiss system, I was told it wouldnt scale well for the US-- perhaps the same applies to an armed populace?

Lookup Kennesaw, Georgia. By far an large, minus a few against the grain, the places with the most guns have the least amount of murders and other crimes. Then you have very strict laws in places like Chicago and Washington, DC, and we see how that regulation has helped them.

But I think self defense against sickness is a bit different than self defense against crime. :lol:

[gabosaurus]

What about explosive devices hidden in cheese?

[Dilloduck]

How about cutting the cheese?

[gabosaurus]

How about cutting the cheese?

Women NEVER cut the cheese! This is a male thing entirely. :rolleyes:

[Dilloduck]

Women NEVER cut the cheese! This is a male thing entirely. :rolleyes:

I bet the Syrians have women cheese cutters as WMDs. :cool:

[logroller]

Lookup Kennesaw, Georgia. By far an large, minus a few against the grain, the places with the most guns have the least amount of murders and other crimes. Then you have very strict laws in places like Chicago and Washington, DC, and we see how that regulation has helped them.

But I think self defense against sickness is a bit different than self defense against crime. :lol:
Well prices for health services are debatably criminal.:lol:
I'm not saying you're wrong, (I think you're right) that an armed populace isn't less likely to be victimized by crime, but there are some social plights that stem from higher populations-- that's why I mentioned the scale. I mention this because that was lauded as a reason for why the swiss healthcare system couldn't be utilized here; that the diversity of interests being greater here in the US disallow the implementation of the swiss system-- so I ask if widespread bearing of arms might similarly apply to only to smaller populations...eg kennesaw-- pop 30,000.

[jafar00]

Okay - fair...they don't have GUNS...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Xn_O-mM2sFk/RsIv8OnHTiI/AAAAAAAAApc/uiXHbuVPWBM/s1600/child_suicide_bomber11.jpg

3790

Of course, American parents never take photos of their kids holding guns :p

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_suPofhUEV8/TZLY0GUdf9I/AAAAAAAABxg/RrDNQh7CnzE/s1600/Guns.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/HardShell/RWB%20Family/JuniorwithhisGSG-5.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e64/callen66_photo/KTOG/bryanhunting1.jpg

[darin]

Of course, American parents never take photos of their kids holding guns :p

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_suPofhUEV8/TZLY0GUdf9I/AAAAAAAABxg/RrDNQh7CnzE/s1600/Guns.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/HardShell/RWB%20Family/JuniorwithhisGSG-5.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e64/callen66_photo/KTOG/bryanhunting1.jpg

Let's be honest - we don't teach our kids, en mass, to become TERRORISTS. :) Marching in a "Kill all the Non-believers!" parade is MUCh different than simply Holding guns - What you see is americana. Its folks teaching their kids the goodness, power, and respect of firearms. They are standing there just being kids...if they were draped in white hoods, or branded with the name of a Terrorist organization, that'd be 'Radical Islam' ;)

Apples and Oranges my friend.

[jafar00]

Let's be honest - we don't teach our kids, en mass, to become TERRORISTS. :) Marching in a "Kill all the Non-believers!" parade is MUCh different than simply Holding guns

Since when do Muslims hold kill all the unbelievers parades? Granted you posted photos from Palestinians who are in a warzone and are constantly attacked by their Jewish neighbours. It's not wonder they hate the Jews.

[darin]

Since when do Muslims hold kill all the unbelievers parades? Granted you posted photos from Palestinians who are in a warzone and are constantly attacked by their Jewish neighbours. It's not wonder they hate the Jews.

Lots of muslims believe it's righteous to kill all infadels. You know that. Dont play games, bro.

And your last statement betrays your slant - If the arabs in palestine would STOP KILLING/ATTACKING the Jews, that whole area would be better-off. It's the Palestinians who are the evil in that land - not to a person, obviously - but their "elected leaders" are vile, evil, and hateful. They feel justified, I suppose, in their actions because they are so misguided in their faith.

[taft2012]

One could also say; "Christianity doesn't kill people, Islam kills people."

I'm very pleased I was able to divert this discussion onto a more practical course.

You're welcome.

[fj1200]

It's not wonder they hate the Jews.

If only that wasn't being used as diversion from the complete failure of being able to provide the conditions for a better life and economic growth.

[logroller]

If only that wasn't being used as diversion from the complete failure of being able to provide the conditions for a better life and economic growth.

Imperialist swine!:poke::laugh:

[fj1200]

Imperialist swine!:poke::laugh:

That's capitalist pig to you. :slap:

[logroller]

That's capitalist pig to you. :slap:

Save me some room in the money pit mud.

[jimnyc]

Since when do Muslims hold kill all the unbelievers parades? Granted you posted photos from Palestinians who are in a warzone and are constantly attacked by their Jewish neighbours. It's not wonder they hate the Jews.

Funny how it's always the Jews attacking the Pals and never the other way around. It's a war zone like you said, it goes both ways, and you're delusional if you think the Pals aren't shooting unprovoked rockets at times and unprovoked shootings. I'm not going to debate you over it, but I'm of the belief, based on many, many years of reading articles and stats, that in fact more crap comes from the Pals into Israel than the other way around.

[jimnyc]

You need to get your facts straight. The only weapons I have seen in the middle east (and I have traveled there extensively) were being held by police or soldiers. Nobody I know from UAE, Egypt, Morocco, Algeria or Libya has a gun in their house and neither do their friends.

I meant to get back to this yesterday and forgot. The countries you mention are in fact fairly friendly, and less crap going on there. Egypt is picking up though since Mubarak's ouster and there are a lot of guns and bombs in play. Just the video of Gaddafy (19 spellings) being captured and killed speaks of guns, as there were no less then 200 armed men running around as if they just won a gold medal in shooting at that time. So not only did your cherry picking fail, but you barely scratched the surface of countries as part of the Middle East, and what is now known as the "Greater Middle East" to many. Suffice to say, outside of the areas you listed, there is a little more chance of guns being out there than the very small percentage of places you listed.

Middle East:

Bahrain, Cyprus, Gaza Strip, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Northern Cyprus, Oman, Palestinian Authority, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, UAE, Yemen

Then other countries now consider part of the Greater Middle East:

Afghanistan, Algeria, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Comoros, Djibouti, Eritrea, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Libya, Mauritania, Morocco, Pakistan, Somalia, Sudan, Tajikistan, Tunisia, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Western Sahara

[Abbey Marie]

Jafar should just embrace his heritage. No point fighting it. :laugh2:

I do have high hopes for the normal people of the Middle East (Iranians come to mind) who aren't swayed by the ever-growing blood thirsty infidel-hating Islamic beliefs.

[jafar00]

If only that wasn't being used as diversion from the complete failure of being able to provide the conditions for a better life and economic growth.

You sound like Romney. The Palestinians did have a prosperous economy and a better life before their lands were invaded. You tell me how they are supposed to prosper while they are herded into ever smaller prisons and blockaded economically and physically?


Funny how it's always the Jews attacking the Pals and never the other way around. It's a war zone like you said, it goes both ways, and you're delusional if you think the Pals aren't shooting unprovoked rockets at times and unprovoked shootings. I'm not going to debate you over it, but I'm of the belief, based on many, many years of reading articles and stats, that in fact more crap comes from the Pals into Israel than the other way around.

I don't know how you can compare a few badly aimed Palestinian bottle rockets vs Israeli tanks, helicopters, chemical weapons, bombs, artillery etc.... and still say that more crap comes into Israel from the Palestinians.


Just the video of Gaddafy (19 spellings) being captured and killed speaks of guns, as there were no less then 200 armed men running around as if they just won a gold medal in shooting at that time. So not only did your cherry picking fail, but you barely scratched the surface of countries as part of the Middle East, and what is now known as the "Greater Middle East" to many. Suffice to say, outside of the areas you listed, there is a little more chance of guns being out there than the very small percentage of places you listed.

The Libyans were in a civil war. Of course guns play a part in civil wars. You gave the guns to them too! :p

[jimnyc]

You're a denier and excuse maker, Jafar. I still like you, but I believe that to be the truth. Anyone who denies the Pals do a ton of damage, including terrorist activities, towards Israel, is just that, a denier. And when you aren't denying things that everyone else sees, if backed into a corner with indisputable facts, you then tend to make excuses for a lot of the evils committed within Islam.

It would be the equivalent of me denying that Americans commit many more crimes, and some sick murders, in NYC and LA, than in other areas. It's simply what it is. And then if given irrefutable footage and or facts, to claim these people somehow had good reasoning for their actions.

In other words, both Israel and Palestinians are guilty of bombarding one another and killing one another, but you seem to make it clear that Palestinian lives are more valuable and they are somehow less culpable.

Sorry, but that's bullshit.

[aboutime]

You sound like Romney. The Palestinians did have a prosperous economy and a better life before their lands were invaded. You tell me how they are supposed to prosper while they are herded into ever smaller prisons and blockaded economically and physically?



I don't know how you can compare a few badly aimed Palestinian bottle rockets vs Israeli tanks, helicopters, chemical weapons, bombs, artillery etc.... and still say that more crap comes into Israel from the Palestinians.



The Libyans were in a civil war. Of course guns play a part in civil wars. You gave the guns to them too! :p
jafar. Tell us. What lands were taken away from the Palestinians? And who took them?

You sound almost as unconvincing, and lacking for honest Historical facts as Obama.

[jafar00]

You're a denier and excuse maker, Jafar. I still like you, but I believe that to be the truth. Anyone who denies the Pals do a ton of damage, including terrorist activities, towards Israel, is just that, a denier. And when you aren't denying things that everyone else sees, if backed into a corner with indisputable facts, you then tend to make excuses for a lot of the evils committed within Islam.

It would be the equivalent of me denying that Americans commit many more crimes, and some sick murders, in NYC and LA, than in other areas. It's simply what it is. And then if given irrefutable footage and or facts, to claim these people somehow had good reasoning for their actions.

In other words, both Israel and Palestinians are guilty of bombarding one another and killing one another, but you seem to make it clear that Palestinian lives are more valuable and they are somehow less culpable.

Sorry, but that's bullshit.

I'm just comparing this....

http://newasiarepublic.com/wp-content/uploads/masked_palestinians_rockets.jpghttp://uploads.static.vosizneias.com/2011/03/rokcj1.jpg


To this...

http://joodsactueel.be/wp-content/uploads-pjact001/2009/04/09_gaza_0801-artillery.jpghttp://a57.foxnews.com/www.foxnews.com/images/490922/450/350/9_28_d450.jpghttp://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2009/0901/gaza_safa.jpg

And yes, I included a pic of Israeli CHEMICAL WEAPONS USE.

This is more in response to what jimmync said but you can't say that the Palestinians do more to the Israelis than the Israelis do to the Palestinians.

The Palestinians just respond with whatever they can get or make in their back yards.


jafar. Tell us. What lands were taken away from the Palestinians? And who took them?

You sound almost as unconvincing, and lacking for honest Historical facts as Obama.


A picture can speak 1000 words.

http://www.thehypertexts.com/images/israel-palestine_map.jpg

[jimnyc]

If I post horrifying pictures of children, massacred by Palestinian militants, would it matter the quality of the weapons used? They sure must make a lot or find them a lot if they're able to launch rockets into Israel since 2001, thousands and thousands of them.

The point I was making, was that neither is innocent, they are both bombing one another and innocents die on both sides - it's not just Israel attacking as you would make it sound.

[jafar00]

If I post horrifying pictures of children, massacred by Palestinian militants, would it matter the quality of the weapons used? They sure must make a lot or find them a lot if they're able to launch rockets into Israel since 2001, thousands and thousands of them.

I could counter your horrifying pictures with even more horrifying pictures. The death toll is rather lop sided.


The point I was making, was that neither is innocent, they are both bombing one another and innocents die on both sides - it's not just Israel attacking as you would make it sound.

True, they both have fault in fighting, however the Zionists started it therefore the blame lands squarely in their court.

[darin]

True, they both have fault in fighting, however the Zionists started it therefore the blame lands squarely in their court.

You mean back in the biblical days, when the Israelis claimed the land? Anything after 1944 is squarely upon the Arabs, my friend. They start shit, Israel kicks their asses, and then the Arabs blame Israel. :(

[jimnyc]

You mean back in the biblical days, when the Israelis claimed the land? Anything after 1944 is squarely upon the Arabs, my friend. They start shit, Israel kicks their asses, and then the Arabs blame Israel. :(

Why don't the people who want that land just take it back if it's theirs? Oh, I forgot, because they'll get the shit kicked out of them again. :lol: Instead they'll shoot thousands and thousands of rockets from afar, but then whine like little bitches when Israel dos the same in retaliation, only better.

[Abbey Marie]

If I post horrifying pictures of children, massacred by Palestinian militants, would it matter the quality of the weapons used? They sure must make a lot or find them a lot if they're able to launch rockets into Israel since 2001, thousands and thousands of them.

The point I was making, was that neither is innocent, they are both bombing one another and innocents die on both sides - it's not just Israel attacking as you would make it sound.

But only one has vowed to wipe the other off the earth.


ETA: Let's not post the horrifying pics.

[jimnyc]

But only one has vowed to wipe the other off the earth.


ETA: Let's not post the horrifying pics.

I have no intent on posting them. I was just making a point, that whether using million dollar technology, or killing your neighbor with a rusty spoon, killing is killing. The Pals are FAR from innocent in this back and forth. Like I said previously, something near 10,000 rocket attacks into Israel since 2001 or so. That's not innocent people finding spare parts in their backyard and using a slingshot to send a rocket back at the enemy. This is an enemy fighting equally to their counterparts, they're just less equipped.

[fj1200]

You sound like Romney. The Palestinians did have a prosperous economy and a better life before their lands were invaded. You tell me how they are supposed to prosper while they are herded into ever smaller prisons and blockaded economically and physically?

Maybe, but I don't know Romney's position on the issue. Can you list the drivers for that "herding"? Was it "herding" or response to actions taken against Israel?



http://www.thehypertexts.com/images/israel-palestine_map.jpg


GDP per capita in the Palestinian territories rose by 7% per year from 1968-1980 but slowed during the 1980s. Between 1970 and 1991 life expectancy rose from 56 to 66 years, infant mortality per 1,000 fell from 95 to 42, the percentage of households with electricity rose from 30% to 85%, the percentage of households with safe water rose from 15% to 90%, the percentage of households with a refrigerator rose from 11% to 85%, and the percentage of households with a washing machine rose from 23% in 1980 to 61% in 1991.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Palestinian_territories#cite_note-3)Economic conditions in the West Bank and Gaza, where economic activity was governed by the Paris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris) Economic Protocol of April 1994 between Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel) and the Palestinian Authority, deteriorated in the early 1990s. Real per capita GDP for the West Bank and Gaza Strip (WBGS) declined 36.1% between 1992 and 1996 owing to the combined effect of falling aggregate incomes and robust population growth. The downturn in economic activity was due to extensive corruption in the newly governing Palestinian Authority, and to Israeli closure policies in response to security incidents in Israel, which disrupted previously established labor and commodity market relationships.
The most serious effect of this downturn was the emergence of chronic unemployment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment). Average unemployment rates in the 1980s were generally under 5%; by the mid-1990s this level had risen to over 20%. After 1997, Israel's use of comprehensive closures decreased and new policies were implemented. In October 1999, Israel permitted the opening of a safe passage between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in accordance with the 1995 Interim Agreement. These changes in the conduct of economic activity fueled a moderate economic recovery in 1998-99.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Palestinian_territories

Certainly a subject that requires more in-depth analysis but there is enough there to think that the Palestinians are not completely blameless. As with most government controlled economies their success is driven not by their actions but by the performance of the closest free-market, or closest facsimile, economy. The best bet of the Palestinian people is to demand economic freedoms whereby they can control their own outcomes and end their reliance on scapegoating Israel. Is the underperformance of the Egyptian economy also because Israel has herded it's people into a smaller and smaller footprint?

[jafar00]

You mean back in the biblical days, when the Israelis claimed the land? Anything after 1944 is squarely upon the Arabs, my friend. They start shit, Israel kicks their asses, and then the Arabs blame Israel. :(

I mean since 1948 when the zionists invaded and kicked the Palestinians out of their homes at gunpoint.

Why don't the people who want that land just take it back if it's theirs? Oh, I forgot, because they'll get the shit kicked out of them again. :lol: Instead they'll shoot thousands and thousands of rockets from afar, but then whine like little bitches when Israel dos the same in retaliation, only better.

They are trying to take it back, but nobody is helping them. Israel on the other hand get billions in US tax dollars and military support to continue their inhumane treatment of the Palestinians.


Certainly a subject that requires more in-depth analysis but there is enough there to think that the Palestinians are not completely blameless. As with most government controlled economies their success is driven not by their actions but by the performance of the closest free-market, or closest facsimile, economy. The best bet of the Palestinian people is to demand economic freedoms whereby they can control their own outcomes and end their reliance on scapegoating Israel. Is the underperformance of the Egyptian economy also because Israel has herded it's people into a smaller and smaller footprint?

Sure there is corruption in Palestinian areas but you have to remember they have been blockaded and squeezed for quite some time now. They have not been given a chance to thrive. I bought some Palestinian Olive Oil (delicious btw) while in Egypt, but that had to be smuggled out through tunnels from Gaza because the Israelis won't allow them to export it normally.

The blame for Egypt's under performance (why are we mentioning them?) lies squarely at the feet of former dictator Hosni Mubarak who amassed a personal fortune of over $70billion while he let the country rot.

[fj1200]

Sure there is corruption in Palestinian areas but you have to remember they have been blockaded and squeezed for quite some time now. They have not been given a chance to thrive. I bought some Palestinian Olive Oil (delicious btw) while in Egypt, but that had to be smuggled out through tunnels from Gaza because the Israelis won't allow them to export it normally.

The blame for Egypt's under performance (why are we mentioning them?) lies squarely at the feet of former dictator Hosni Mubarak who amassed a personal fortune of over $70billion while he let the country rot.

Hmm, about your map.
http://osherove.com/blog/2009/1/5/political-the-truth-about-the-palestinian-loss-of-land-1946.html

But you ignored the majority of the link and my post. There was success and growth for Palestinians even after Israel came into existence and it greatly suffered when the PA came into control. But Egypt and Palestine? Corruption and graft is corruption and graft.

Why have they been "blockaded and squeezed" and why did they benefit from growth even when being "blockaded and squeezed"?

[jimnyc]

They are trying to take it back, but nobody is helping them. Israel on the other hand get billions in US tax dollars and military support to continue their inhumane treatment of the Palestinians.

Who do you think should help them in a military predicament? But it seems you think someone should. And since you think things like that are needed - then why is it an issue of the US helps Israel with any possible issues with Iran? Is helping ok if it's helping Muslims, but not the other way around?

And regardless of the US money, the Palestinians continue with inhumane treatment to Israeli's as well. Everyone seems to see it as a back and forth, and both involved, and you want to make the Pals out to be victims and that they are innocent. Explain the last 10 years and 10,000 rockets then.

[Gaffer]

I mean since 1948 when the zionists invaded and kicked the Palestinians out of their homes at gunpoint.


They are trying to take it back, but nobody is helping them. Israel on the other hand get billions in US tax dollars and military support to continue their inhumane treatment of the Palestinians.



Sure there is corruption in Palestinian areas but you have to remember they have been blockaded and squeezed for quite some time now. They have not been given a chance to thrive. I bought some Palestinian Olive Oil (delicious btw) while in Egypt, but that had to be smuggled out through tunnels from Gaza because the Israelis won't allow them to export it normally.

The blame for Egypt's under performance (why are we mentioning them?) lies squarely at the feet of former dictator Hosni Mubarak who amassed a personal fortune of over $70billion while he let the country rot.

In 1948 the combined armies of all the surrounding arab countries attacked Israel as soon as the British and UN troops pulled out of the newly established country. To say Israel attacked the pals is a lie. The pals were told to leave by the arab countries who intended to invade. Most did. Some stayed and became Israeli citizens with full rights. 100,000 pals left Israel to be placed in refugee camps in Jordan and Lebanon, they weren't accepted into those countries. Israel defeated the invading arabs and took additional land which made the country more defensible. The Jews in saudi arabia and the other surrounding countries were then rounded up and sent to Israel. They basically replaced the pals that had left prior to the invasion. You really need to learn the real history of the area. In addition the pals were not allowed into any of the arab countries. They were used, as they are now, for political purposes. The arabs blame all their failings on Israel to keep their people from looking too closely at how poor their leadership is.

The pals are not trying to take anything back. They are simply looking for a way to commit genocide. The only squeezing being done to the pals is from the other arab countries continuing to use them.

Mubarak was a dictator, I have often wondered how egypt would have turned out had Sadat lived. But then he was killed by, oh yeah, the muslim brotherhood. As I said before you really need to bone up on your history.

[jafar00]

In 1948 the combined armies of all the surrounding arab countries attacked Israel as soon as the British and UN troops pulled out of the newly established country. To say Israel attacked the pals is a lie. The pals were told to leave by the arab countries who intended to invade. Most did. Some stayed and became Israeli citizens with full rights. 100,000 pals left Israel to be placed in refugee camps in Jordan and Lebanon, they weren't accepted into those countries. Israel defeated the invading arabs and took additional land which made the country more defensible. The Jews in saudi arabia and the other surrounding countries were then rounded up and sent to Israel. They basically replaced the pals that had left prior to the invasion. You really need to learn the real history of the area. In addition the pals were not allowed into any of the arab countries. They were used, as they are now, for political purposes. The arabs blame all their failings on Israel to keep their people from looking too closely at how poor their leadership is.

The pals are not trying to take anything back. They are simply looking for a way to commit genocide. The only squeezing being done to the pals is from the other arab countries continuing to use them.

So the zionists were already there and it was the Arabs that invaded from European countries in order to kick the jews out? And the Arabs are there dressed as IDF soldiers at the checkpoints restricting the movements of Palestinians and stopping vital supplies from crossing their borders?


Mubarak was a dictator, I have often wondered how egypt would have turned out had Sadat lived. But then he was killed by, oh yeah, the muslim brotherhood. As I said before you really need to bone up on your history.

Sadat was killed by members of Gama'a al islamiyya, not the Ikhwan.

It is you who needs to study history more closely.

[jimnyc]

Mubarak was a dictator, I have often wondered how egypt would have turned out had Sadat lived. But then he was killed by, oh yeah, the muslim brotherhood. As I said before you really need to bone up on your history.


Sadat was killed by members of Gama'a al islamiyya, not the Ikhwan.

It is you who needs to study history more closely.

A few interesting storylines here...

Khalid Islambouli was the one charged with killing Sadat and sentenced to death. Odd as well, that the man convicted of murder was held in such high regard by many, as a hero. We idolize sports heroes here, not murderers.

Who else helped? Omar Abdel-Rahman, the "blind sheikh" that Morsi, the leader of the MB who is now calling for the release of Rahman from prison in the USA. Rahman supposedly issued the fatwa which ultimately got Sadat murdered.


Nasser's successor, Anwar Sadat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_Sadat), became president of Egypt in 1970 and gradually released imprisoned Brothers and enlisted their help against leftist groups. Since then, the organisation has been tolerated to an extent, but remains technically illegal and is subjected to periodic crackdowns. Eventually the Brotherhood was key in the assassination of Anwar Sadat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Muslim_Brotherhood_in_Egypt

[jafar00]

Morsi, the leader of the MB

Mohamed Badie is the leader of the MB not Morsi who is not even a member of the FJP party since his election as President.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Badie

http://www.breakingnews.com/item/ahZzfmJyZWFraW5nbmV3cy13d3ctaHJkcg0LEgRTZWVkGO-C-QgM/2012/06/24/egypts-new-president-mohammed-morsi-resigns-from-the-muslim-brotherho

[jimnyc]

Mohamed Badie is the leader of the MB not Morsi who is not even a member of the FJP party since his election as President.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Badie

http://www.breakingnews.com/item/ahZzfmJyZWFraW5nbmV3cy13d3ctaHJkcg0LEgRTZWVkGO-C-QgM/2012/06/24/egypts-new-president-mohammed-morsi-resigns-from-the-muslim-brotherho

I should have said leader of Egypt, and a large player in the MB for quite some time. But to the point, the Brotherhood has been around forever and DID have their hands in a part of the murder of Sadat. Another connection to the Brotherhood is that Sadat is the one who released Badie from prison.

[Gaffer]

The brotherhood is made up of all sorts of organizations, including AQ and hamas. You can use whatever name you want, but the brotherhood was responsible for Sadat's assassination.

jafar do you have a reading comprehension problem? Or was my post to short for you to grasp what I was talking about?

[Voted4Reagan]

Let me drop a 100lb wheel of gouda on Gabbys Melon from 50 feet up......

Cheese can kill you... if used properly....