Saudi Arabia considers law against insulting Islam

[jimnyc]

Can you imagine if a law was passed, ANYWHERE in the entire world, where it would be a crime to insult Catholics or Christians? It doesn't matter to me what religion or what part of the world people live in, doing stuff like this is no more than controlling the thoughts of the population. Sounds more like something I would have heard coming out of North Korea.


(Reuters) - Saudi Arabia is studying new regulations to criminalise insulting Islam, including in social media, and the law could carry heavy penalties, a Saudi paper said on Sunday.

The potential regulations come five months after a Saudi blogger and columnist Hamza Kashgari, 23, was arrested for tweeting comments deemed as insulting the Prophet Mohammad. Kashgari said there were things he liked and disliked about him.

"Within the next two months the Shura Council will reveal the outcome of study on the regulations to combat the criticism of the basic tenets of Islamic sharia," unnamed sources with knowledge of the matter told al-Watan, adding that there could be "severe punishments" for violators.

Criticism penalised under the law would include that of the Prophet, early Muslim figures and clerics, it said.

"The (regulations) are important at the present time because violations over social networks on the Internet have been observed in the past months," the sources said.

Saudi Arabia follows a strict version of Sunni Islamic law, referred to as Wahhabism. Blasphemy can be punishable by death.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/15/saudi-islam-law-idUSL6E8IF2CY20120715

[Nukeman]

Can you imagine if a law was passed, ANYWHERE in the entire world, where it would be a crime to insult Catholics or Christians? It doesn't matter to me what religion or what part of the world people live in, doing stuff like this is no more than controlling the thoughts of the population. Sounds more like something I would have heard coming out of North Korea.



http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/15/saudi-islam-law-idUSL6E8IF2CY20120715
Just shows you how immature and afraid they are of someone dissing their religion. I find it funny that they have such little faith (no pun intended) that thier religion can overcome insults. Kind of ironic dont'cha think!?!?!?!?

What say you Jafar?? Should non believers be able to insult or question Islam??? Just a straight yes or no answer thats all!!!

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Can you imagine if a law was passed, ANYWHERE in the entire world, where it would be a crime to insult Catholics or Christians? It doesn't matter to me what religion or what part of the world people live in, doing stuff like this is no more than controlling the thoughts of the population. Sounds more like something I would have heard coming out of North Korea.



http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/15/saudi-islam-law-idUSL6E8IF2CY20120715

Insulting Islam over in those filthy and blighted nations already often brings a death sentence or even immediate execution by the insane zealots!

[jimnyc]

What say you Jafar?? Should non believers be able to insult or question Islam??? Just a straight yes or no answer thats all!!!

I've asked many Muslims over the years similarly, mostly about any depictions of Muhammed, or insults of Muhammed. That's a big no-no in Islam and they are VERY against it. I suppose the punishment will vary from region to region. I know those Muslims I personally know, agreed that if the Danish cartoonist was hunted down and killed for his cartoon, it would be righteous and his own fault.

[mundame]

I know those Muslims I personally know, agreed that if the Danish cartoonist was hunted down and killed for his cartoon, it would be righteous and his own fault.


Wow. Just......................wow.

Well, I don't know why I'm surprised. I've been reading a lot of Reformation history, when religion did stand in for politics, so the hatreds around religion were the same as our hatreds around politics now. So people routinely (!) got burned at the stake and hanged for religious offenses, like preaching when and what they weren't supposed to.

Same deal, the Arabs are just several centuries behind us, as usual.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Just shows you how immature and afraid they are of someone dissing their religion. I find it funny that they have such little faith (no pun intended) that thier religion can overcome insults. Kind of ironic dont'cha think!?!?!?!?

What say you Jafar?? Should non believers be able to insult or question Islam??? Just a straight yes or no answer thats all!!!

HAHA, you'll be lucky if he just gives you a two page spin instead. However if held down to a yes or no my guess is that he will choose no! For every true Islamist insists that their beliefs are always to be above criticisms!-Tyr

[Nukeman]

Just shows you how immature and afraid they are of someone dissing their religion. I find it funny that they have such little faith (no pun intended) that thier religion can overcome insults. Kind of ironic dont'cha think!?!?!?!?

What say you Jafar?? Should non believers be able to insult or question Islam??? Just a straight yes or no answer thats all!!!Well Jafar??

[jafar00]

Can you imagine if a law was passed, ANYWHERE in the entire world, where it would be a crime to insult Catholics or Christians? It doesn't matter to me what religion or what part of the world people live in, doing stuff like this is no more than controlling the thoughts of the population. Sounds more like something I would have heard coming out of North Korea.

You are incorrect.

Countries where it is illegal to deny or even to debate the holocaust.
Austria
Belgium
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Czech Republic
France
Germany
Hungary
Israel
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Spain
Switzerland


What say you Jafar?? Should non believers be able to insult or question Islam??? Just a straight yes or no answer thats all!!!

Question yes, insult no. What would your reaction be if I started calling your mother a whore and that the only reason I am fat is because every time I did her in the a**, she fed me a donut? I'm sure that would earn me a few punches in the face :stooges:


Well Jafar??

Patience? It's a virtue. Never heard of timezones?

[jimnyc]

You are incorrect.

Countries where it is illegal to deny or even to debate the holocaust.
Austria
Belgium
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Czech Republic
France
Germany
Hungary
Israel
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Spain
Switzerland



Question yes, insult no. What would your reaction be if I started calling your mother a whore and that the only reason I am fat is because every time I did her in the a**, she fed me a donut? I'm sure that would earn me a few punches in the face :stooges:



Patience? It's a virtue. Never heard of timezones?

And it's wrong of those countries to not allow someone to merely speak an opinion. And it's just as wrong for Islam to punish people for merely saying something bad about Islam or Muhammed. And while you're analogy very well may land you a few shots depending on where you live, at least here, it's still something you can legally do without fear of arrest or worse.

[Nukeman]

You are incorrect.

Countries where it is illegal to deny or even to debate the holocaust.
Austria
Belgium
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Czech Republic
France
Germany
Hungary
Israel
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Spain
Switzerland



Question yes, insult no. What would your reaction be if I started calling your mother a whore and that the only reason I am fat is because every time I did her in the a**, she fed me a donut? I'm sure that would earn me a few punches in the face :stooges:



Patience? It's a virtue. Never heard of timezones?Well 2 things One I was bringing this BACK TO THE TOP for discussion.

Number 2 you're not comparing apples to apples, If you feel so compelled to insult Christianity that is YOUR FREE CHOICE to do so just as if I choose to insult Islam it is MY FREE CHOICE. now if you want to insult the woman that gave birth to me we will have some VERY serious issues. I never talk about Mothers, wives, or children. NEVER.. I expect the same courtesy from others !! Religion on the other hand is up to interpretation of the believer!!!!

[Roo]

Piss on Islam and it's petulant whiny about insulted.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Piss on Islam and it's petulant whiny about insulted.

Islam insults the world everytime it claims to be a Religion of Peace!

You have 'em pegged right amigo!-:beer: :beer:---Tyr

[jafar00]

And it's wrong of those countries to not allow someone to merely speak an opinion. And it's just as wrong for Islam to punish people for merely saying something bad about Islam or Muhammed. And while you're analogy very well may land you a few shots depending on where you live, at least here, it's still something you can legally do without fear of arrest or worse.

Have you ever heard of the law of provocation?

In the US military, provocation can be a court martial offence.



“Any person subject to this chapter who uses provoking or reproachful words or gestures towards any other person subject to this chapter shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”Elements.(1) That the accused wrongfully used words or gestures toward a certain person;(2) That the words or gestures used were provoking or reproachful; and(3) That the person toward whom the words or gestures were used was a person subject to the code.


http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm117.htm

I could probably find more examples of where misguided freedom of speech can be punished according to US law.


Well 2 things One I was bringing this BACK TO THE TOP for discussion.

Number 2 you're not comparing apples to apples, If you feel so compelled to insult Christianity that is YOUR FREE CHOICE to do so just as if I choose to insult Islam it is MY FREE CHOICE. now if you want to insult the woman that gave birth to me we will have some VERY serious issues. I never talk about Mothers, wives, or children. NEVER.. I expect the same courtesy from others !! Religion on the other hand is up to interpretation of the believer!!!!

Insulting Islam or the Prophet Mohamed (saw) to a Muslim is like insulting your mother. I'm glad you understand. I'm sorry I used the mother analogy but I wanted to be clear about the seriousness of belligerently setting out to offend someone. You can and should expect a response. In this case, the Saudis have legislated.

[SassyLady]

Have you ever heard of the law of provocation?

In the US military, provocation can be a court martial offence.


http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm117.htm

I could probably find more examples of where misguided freedom of speech can be punished according to US law.



Insulting Islam or the Prophet Mohamed (saw) to a Muslim is like insulting your mother. I'm glad you understand. I'm sorry I used the mother analogy but I wanted to be clear about the seriousness of belligerently setting out to offend someone. You can and should expect a response. In this case, the Saudis have legislated.

So, you agree that those who burn the American Flag are to be punished ....after all, it falls under the provocation clause?

[jafar00]

So, you agree that those who burn the American Flag are to be punished ....after all, it falls under the provocation clause?

<shrug> I really don't understand such fervent patriotism. You can burn the Australian flag and stomp on it if you like and my only reaction would be to sit in a cafe and order another latte as I watched.

[SassyLady]

<shrug> I really don't understand such fervent patriotism. You can burn the Australian flag and stomp on it if you like and my only reaction would be to sit in a cafe and order another latte as I watched.

And I don't understand why muslims are so passionate/fervent about insults to their religion.

I do think it's interesting that you don't think burning the flag falls under the provocation clause, but drawing a cartoon about Mohammed warrants punishment.


</shrug>

[Kathianne]

And it's wrong of those countries to not allow someone to merely speak an opinion. And it's just as wrong for Islam to punish people for merely saying something bad about Islam or Muhammed. And while you're analogy very well may land you a few shots depending on where you live, at least here, it's still something you can legally do without fear of arrest or worse.

Actually the laws are broader than it first appears. One has to have bothered to find a 'stage' to put forth the denials or minimizations of the holocaust or in most cases of genocide in particular. Authors and professors are most likely targets; also extreme politicians hoping to see fascism make a comeback.

Interestingly enough, these countries nearly all have 'hate crimes' legislation. No wonder I'm against that.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

They believe in killing for offenses over there in the M E.
CHECK THIS OUT EXECUTION FOR CAR ACCIDENT !
Islam believes in killing for just about every offense, that or chopping off hands , etc.
Burn an Islamic flag or insult a prophet =death , who does jafar thinking he is foooooooling here?
Were that stupid driver here he would not be executed. --Tyr


http://autos.aol.com/article/punishment-for-fatal-accident-driver-will-be-executed/?ncid=txtlnkusauto00000020

Punishment For Fatal Accident: Driver Will Be Executed
Authorities will carry out sentence in gruesome fashion
Posted: Jun 29, 2012

A driver who killed two bystanders while performing a stunt has received a death sentence from Saudi Arabian authorities. The driver, known as Mutannish in court records, will be beheaded.His death has not yet been scheduled. Mutannish had been engaged in the Saudi pastime of drifting, making his car spin and skid at high speeds, when he lost control and plowed into a crowd of men. The practice is also known as hagwalah, and also can include purposely driving in the wrong direction. The video above shows an example of the practice.

Mutannish fled the scene and was later arrested, reported the Saudi newspaper Al Watan.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

<shrug> I really don't understand such fervent patriotism. You can burn the Australian flag and stomp on it if you like and my only reaction would be to sit in a cafe and order another latte as I watched.

I believe you, for no true muslim dare place anything above Islam , not patriotism, not family, not love of money etc. Islam demands absolute and total obedience!
1. Does it not?

[Trigg]

And I don't understand why muslims are so passionate/fervent about insults to their religion.



I've always wondered the same thing and the only answer I can come up with is that they must be very insecure about it's teachings.


So jafar you say that non-believers have a right to question islam, so long as they don't insult it. WHY the difference? Why shouldn't muslims be allowed to question certain teachings? Aren't you're religious leaders secure enough in the "rightness" of their stance to defend or explain certain topics?

[tournesol]

You are incorrect.

Countries where it is illegal to deny or even to debate the holocaust.
Austria
Belgium
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Czech Republic
France
Germany
Hungary
Israel
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Spain
Switzerland



I'll but in as my country is in that list too. I don't agree with these laws against denial of the holocaust, actually even our prime minister doesn't agree with those laws. They're a remnant of painful European past. I'd rather see they'd get abolished.

Then again, if you actually are prosecuted denying the holocaust, in this country you don't have to fear for your life or liberty. You're probably looking at a few hours of community service tending to municipal tulips or something. Whereas in the Muslim world you would forfeit your very life for being critical of Islam.

[aboutime]

I would agree with what Saudi Arabia considers insulting IF, and only IF they would also consider, and remind those in America...who will follow S.A.'s rulings, and use them equally against anyone who insults ANY RELIGION, or Religious Belief equally.

Notice how much attention is being paid to Islam, and Muslim's. Yet not ONE WORD about anyone who worships as a Christian????

Does that strike anyone else as odd? Of course not. It's become a practice, also here in the U.S.A. to smear, and Insult anyone who claims to be a Christian, Jew, or Athiest. But not one POLITICIAN who is pretending to be a President...will ever expose himself by his GAY tactics of appeasing our Enemies...who hate, and despise anyone who isn't like Him, and his Muslim Brotherhood.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I would agree with what Saudi Arabia considers insulting IF, and only IF they would also consider, and remind those in America...who will follow S.A.'s rulings, and use them equally against anyone who insults ANY RELIGION, or Religious Belief equally.

Notice how much attention is being paid to Islam, and Muslim's. Yet not ONE WORD about anyone who worships as a Christian????

Does that strike anyone else as odd? Of course not. It's become a practice, also here in the U.S.A. to smear, and Insult anyone who claims to be a Christian, Jew, or Athiest. But not one POLITICIAN who is pretending to be a President...will ever expose himself by his GAY tactics of appeasing our Enemies...who hate, and despise anyone who isn't like Him, and his Muslim Brotherhood.


Current policy is that Islam is to be protected at any costs and ALL other religions battered at ANY costs.
This is exactly whats being pushed here by CAIR and other muslim front groups. Lousy appeasors here go along with just about anything that criticises or weakens America, Conservatives, Christains, Republicans, Patriots and our Constitution! They side with Islam because it views all those that I just cited as its enemies! -Tyr