76,7563,502 percocet!

[jimnyc]

That's how many I've taken since I had the prescription filled yesterday. It made me "high" within a half an hour or so. I took too many though and had a headache by about 11pm last night. I woke up 3-4 times because of a headache, and about 10-15 times with my neck/shoulder hurting. Woke up about 6am and popped the percs again, mixed with coffee, and now my 'head' feels great again.

But the neck/pain issue hasn't subsided in the slightest, not at all. This stuff just masks the pain, and the high makes you think of the pain less. I suppose I'm just glad that I finally went to a doctor, since I have such fears about the bastards.

Here's a photo example of what is wrong with my already fucked up head. Notice the bulging discs between the vertebrae pushing out against the spinal cord...

http://www.back-pain-causes-and-relief.com/images/cervical-degenerative-disc-disease-03.jpg

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

That's how many I've taken since I had the prescription filled yesterday. It made me "high" within a half an hour or so. I took too many though and had a headache by about 11pm last night. I woke up 3-4 times because of a headache, and about 10-15 times with my neck/shoulder hurting. Woke up about 6am and popped the percs again, mixed with coffee, and now my 'head' feels great again.

But the neck/pain issue hasn't subsided in the slightest, not at all. This stuff just masks the pain, and the high makes you think of the pain less. I suppose I'm just glad that I finally went to a doctor, since I have such fears about the bastards.

Here's a photo example of what is wrong with my already fucked up head. Notice the bulging discs between the vertebrae pushing out against the spinal cord...

http://www.back-pain-causes-and-relief.com/images/cervical-degenerative-disc-disease-03.jpg

Sorry to hear about your troubles amigo. Man thats bad. Doctor should have given you some major pain meds. Last year I hurt my back and doc gave me Hydrocodone/APAP /500mg Tabs. Those babies worked just fine! Drink a beer , pop one and soon cloud nine arrived..
Last 6 to 8 hours , repeat.

[Anton Chigurh]

Seems like that would hurt.

[taft2012]

I can not suggest in words too strong the advisability of reading Dr. John Sarno's book "Healing Back Pain."

I had the exact same sounding ominous diagnoses you've had, taken the same drugs, had the physical therapy.

Dr. Sarno's book will walk you through the fraud of the entire back pain industry, explain how the pain is the result of your mind generating a distraction from your personal problems, and leave you smacking yourself for ever allowing yourself to suffer one minute needlessly.

[Anton Chigurh]

I can not suggest in words too strong the advisability of reading Dr. John Sarno's book "Healing Back Pain."

I had the exact same sounding ominous diagnoses you've had, taken the same drugs, had the physical therapy.

Dr. Sarno's book will walk you through the fraud of the entire back pain industry, explain how the pain is the result of your mind generating a distraction from your personal problems, and leave you smacking yourself for ever allowing yourself to suffer one minute needlessly.This is one thing that's really been eroded over time - the power of the mind to heal and to prevent sickness, disease and disorders.

They start teaching you to not be self reliant in kindergarten now. Every little ache and pain is a major deal you have to see the nurse for. Training us to be dependent on the quacks completely, at a very early age.

Dr. Sarno is teaching, literally, the power of positive thinking - planting positive seeds, the Pygmalion Effect. The power of the self fulfilling prophesy. He correctly points out that if the placebo effect is real, then so is the Pygmalion Effect. Yes, you CAN literally "think" yourself healthy. Millions do.

My grandad taught me this at a early age when he was smoking a pipe and drinking whiskey from a flask in his workshop, out of site of gramma... He told me, "Jazzbo, if you believe something will hurt you or make you sick, don't eat/drink/smoke it. Because then, it certainly will. If there is even the slightest doubt in your mind, then don't do it."

He smoked and drank in moderation for more than 70 years, died at the ripe old age of 96 of what his doctor told me must have been a broken heart - gramma had passed a couple of years before. The doc said his liver, lungs, heart and kidneys were near pristine and he couldn't find any specific cause of death - the man was in perfect health.

By contrast, my mother died relatively young, of lung cancer and emphysema. She always used to comment to us kids or anyone who might be around, as she lit another cigarette, "These things are gonna kill me someday." Clearly she didn't listen to her dad, or he never told her. More than likely he did tell her, but she listened to gramma instead.

The self fulfilling prophesy - if you plant negative seeds about your health, it is guaranteed you will have health problems. If you eschew the negative and always plant positive seeds - you might just have the health my grandpa had. The man was never sick, very seldom ever went to see the doc, and could still whup all our asses right up until the day he died.

I have been sick all of.... Once in my life. I haven't been to see a doctor since I was old enough to make that decision myself, at age 17. I have no need for them.

NOT saying you can just wish away illness, just pointing out that the Pygmalion Effect does work, IS real, and IS a good tool in the health arsenal. And one they definitely would never teach - in fact it's just the opposite.

Mankind knows about as much about the power of our own brains as a amoeba knows about smart phones.

[taft2012]

Exactly, it is important to remember the inverse to the placebo effect; the mind has the power to make the body sick to protect itself (protect the mind).

[Anton Chigurh]

Exactly, it is important to remember the inverse to the placebo effect; the mind has the power to make the body sick to protect itself (protect the mind).The very first thing children should be taught is - we are all going to die eventually, and no amount of pills, potions, procedures, advances, doctors, money or anything else is going to change that. It's not fatalism, it's just fact. Just reality. We are all definitely going to die.

The dogma they're taught now is, "you'll live longer and have a better life if you just let us control your behavior" and they use the fear of getting sick - constantly planting negative seeds - as a tool for doing just that.

[Anton Chigurh]

My dad used to rail against the constant bombardment of PSAs and "news" stories about how this and that causes cancer, etc etc ad infinitum, by saying, "Fuckin people planners! Pretty soon they'll be saying we can't even hide under the BED, because lint causes cancer!"

Years after he died? They actually DID!:laugh:

[logroller]

Percocets eh? I know what you're talking about with the pain not really going away, just being too high to give a shit...for an hour or two, then repeat. :420:Tis a Shame when the pain messes up the great buzz Jim. Atleast you're still high enough not to be able to count.:laugh: Hope the pain subsides before the prescription does.:2up:

[jimnyc]

I know what you guys mean about medicines and placebos, and I do think doctors and patients alike are too quick to go to the medicine, myself included. But things like this, where it's perhaps a herniated disc, or other examples of broken bones lets say, or a torn tendon, or a deep cut... Some things do require physical correction, and sometimes the pain is enough to where medication to relieve the pain is a miracle to some.

[jimnyc]

Percocets eh? I know what you're talking about with the pain not really going away, just being too high to give a shit...for an hour or two, then repeat. :420:Tis a Shame when the pain messes up the great buzz Jim. Atleast you're still high enough not to be able to count.:laugh: Hope the pain subsides before the prescription does.:2up:

Yep, at times they kick in and a feel like a million dollars and that the diagnosis is premature and maybe I can just work out and it'll go away. Then somewhere along the line, the pinching pain hits and stretches along the shoulder line from the neck to my arm. I don't even really know yet what causes it to get worse or what helps. It's just a constant shifting of the body or tossing and turning if in bed, feeling no pain for a bit and then the sharp pain returns.

And no way this script lasts until things subside. I don't see a doctor again until 7/23, the MRI is on the 19th, and my projection shows me running out of the 30 he prescribed around Wednesday. So I don't know if I grin and bear it from Wed-Mon and then ask for a refill, depending on the course of action, or call his office when I run out and see if he'll call in a refill. I suppose I'll wait and see how the pain progresses. Weird though, that when the pain does come around, it already seems worse in the past few days than the last month, and I think that's because the doctor and X-ray tech were yanking my arm all over and making me move it around a lot for diagnosing the pain.

[Shadow]

Yep, at times they kick in and a feel like a million dollars and that the diagnosis is premature and maybe I can just work out and it'll go away. Then somewhere along the line, the pinching pain hits and stretches along the shoulder line from the neck to my arm. I don't even really know yet what causes it to get worse or what helps. It's just a constant shifting of the body or tossing and turning if in bed, feeling no pain for a bit and then the sharp pain returns.

And no way this script lasts until things subside. I don't see a doctor again until 7/23, the MRI is on the 19th, and my projection shows me running out of the 30 he prescribed around Wednesday. So I don't know if I grin and bear it from Wed-Mon and then ask for a refill, depending on the course of action, or call his office when I run out and see if he'll call in a refill. I suppose I'll wait and see how the pain progresses. Weird though, that when the pain does come around, it already seems worse in the past few days than the last month, and I think that's because the doctor and X-ray tech were yanking my arm all over and making me move it around a lot for diagnosing the pain.

Exactly why I hate pain meds. I learned this the hard way after two operations. They trick you into feeling better, and then you have a tendency to over do things. Once the pain meds wear off after the fact...you are screwed. I always used them sparingly to keep myself in check.

Hope things go good for you Jim when you see your doctor next.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

This is one thing that's really been eroded over time - the power of the mind to heal and to prevent sickness, disease and disorders.

They start teaching you to not be self reliant in kindergarten now. Every little ache and pain is a major deal you have to see the nurse for. Training us to be dependent on the quacks completely, at a very early age.

Dr. Sarno is teaching, literally, the power of positive thinking - planting positive seeds, the Pygmalion Effect. The power of the self fulfilling prophesy. He correctly points out that if the placebo effect is real, then so is the Pygmalion Effect. Yes, you CAN literally "think" yourself healthy. Millions do.

My grandad taught me this at a early age when he was smoking a pipe and drinking whiskey from a flask in his workshop, out of site of gramma... He told me, "Jazzbo, if you believe something will hurt you or make you sick, don't eat/drink/smoke it. Because then, it certainly will. If there is even the slightest doubt in your mind, then don't do it."

He smoked and drank in moderation for more than 70 years, died at the ripe old age of 96 of what his doctor told me must have been a broken heart - gramma had passed a couple of years before. The doc said his liver, lungs, heart and kidneys were near pristine and he couldn't find any specific cause of death - the man was in perfect health.

By contrast, my mother died relatively young, of lung cancer and emphysema. She always used to comment to us kids or anyone who might be around, as she lit another cigarette, "These things are gonna kill me someday." Clearly she didn't listen to her dad, or he never told her. More than likely he did tell her, but she listened to gramma instead.

The self fulfilling prophesy - if you plant negative seeds about your health, it is guaranteed you will have health problems. If you eschew the negative and always plant positive seeds - you might just have the health my grandpa had. The man was never sick, very seldom ever went to see the doc, and could still whup all our asses right up until the day he died.

I have been sick all of.... Once in my life. I haven't been to see a doctor since I was old enough to make that decision myself, at age 17. I have no need for them.

NOT saying you can just wish away illness, just pointing out that the Pygmalion Effect does work, IS real, and IS a good tool in the health arsenal. And one they definitely would never teach - in fact it's just the opposite.

Mankind knows about as much about the power of our own brains as a amoeba knows about smart phones.

Got about the same message as that from my Indian grandfather. He often said, let your mind force away your perceived ills. My mother said that he never went to a doctor a day in his life. Only time she remembered him needing medical help was when he managed to cut his ankle with an axe while chopping wood for winter. He was tall dark and strong. And he used to laugh at the women lined up in front of the doctor's office early morning before it opened for business. Always said, "the hens going to get their feathers preened. Tossing way good money for bad medicine." :laugh2:--Tyr

[jimnyc]

Exactly why I hate pain meds. I learned this the hard way after two operations. They trick you into feeling better, and then you have a tenedncy to over do things. Once the pain meds wear off after the fact...you are screwed. I always used them sparingly to keep myself in check.

Hope things go good for you Jim when you see your doctor next.

Well, I'm certainly not overdoing things, I learned that lesson too. I'm going to sit here or lay down here in pain no matter what. Now it's just a matter if I can take the edge off a bit and enjoy the high, which I'm definitely doing. But I'm aware that it's not doing a damn thing to fix the problem and only masking things until surgery or something less invasive can be done.

[Anton Chigurh]

I know what you guys mean about medicines and placebos, and I do think doctors and patients alike are too quick to go to the medicine, myself included. But things like this, where it's perhaps a herniated disc, or other examples of broken bones lets say, or a torn tendon, or a deep cut... Some things do require physical correction, and sometimes the pain is enough to where medication to relieve the pain is a miracle to some.I've had both knees and one ankle scoped. That ankle, later broke and had to have surgery. Had my right hand rebuilt after a work-related accident crushed it. Of course we need medicos to fix the damage injuries cause.

[jimnyc]

I've had both knees and one ankle scoped. That ankle, later broke and had to have surgery. Had my right hand rebuilt after a work-related accident crushed it. Of course we need medicos to fix the damage injuries cause.

Outside of these spine things, the worst for me was cracking my head open a couple million times. My Mom used to tell me I was held together by the stitches. And then I've lived a lifetime of headaches, and far too many of them being migraines. I think cracking the 'ol skull open so many times might have damaged the 'ol noggin!

[Anton Chigurh]

Outside of these spine things, the worst for me was cracking my head open a couple million times. My Mom used to tell me I was held together by the stitches. And then I've lived a lifetime of headaches, and far too many of them being migraines. I think cracking the 'ol skull open so many times might have damaged the 'ol noggin!If you say it and believe it, I would say yeah, 100%.

Plant those negative seeds!:dance:

[logroller]

Yep, at times they kick in and a feel like a million dollars and that the diagnosis is premature and maybe I can just work out and it'll go away. Then somewhere along the line, the pinching pain hits and stretches along the shoulder line from the neck to my arm. I don't even really know yet what causes it to get worse or what helps. It's just a constant shifting of the body or tossing and turning if in bed, feeling no pain for a bit and then the sharp pain returns.

And no way this script lasts until things subside. I don't see a doctor again until 7/23, the MRI is on the 19th, and my projection shows me running out of the 30 he prescribed around Wednesday. So I don't know if I grin and bear it from Wed-Mon and then ask for a refill, depending on the course of action, or call his office when I run out and see if he'll call in a refill. I suppose I'll wait and see how the pain progresses. Weird though, that when the pain does come around, it already seems worse in the past few days than the last month, and I think that's because the doctor and X-ray tech were yanking my arm all over and making me move it around a lot for diagnosing the pain.
Manipulation will certainly cause some soreness. I'm still rehabin my wrist and it hurts every day. I keep doin the exercises because I want my full range of mobility back; but SOB it hurts. As for call in refills on percs, no go buddy; schedule II narcotic, written scripts only I believe. Somehing about likelihood for addiction...what do they know, we can stop any time we want.:coffee:

[jimnyc]

Manipulation will certainly cause some soreness. I'm still rehabin my wrist and it hurts every day. I keep doin the exercises because I want my full range of mobility back; but SOB it hurts. As for call in refills on percs, no go buddy; schedule II narcotic, written scripts only I believe. Somehing about likelihood for addiction...what do they know, we can stop any time we want.:coffee:

Being that it doesn't really "fix" the pain, I think when this script runs out I will just wait until my follow up appt, based on the addiction you mention. Been there and done that. Well, never really got addicted, but did feel withdrawals several times, and it's not pleasant. And you are right about calling them in, I had forgotten. I see my other doctor monthly even though my medications are faxed in and mailed to me, as he can't do so with the Xanax, he must use a physical script for that one, because it's a narcotic.

[taft2012]

Jim, really, just read the book.

I had all of that stuff too on my MRI. "Herniated disc," "bulging disc," "degenerated disc."

Dr. Sarno will tell you how any simple analysis of the herniated disc, and any nerves in the vicinity that could be pinched, almost never have any connection to where the pain is. In other words, if the herniated disc is pressing on a nerve, one should be able to follow the nerve's path to where the pain is. Never happens.

He will explain the composition of nerve tissue, and how if it did ever actually get pinched by two discs, nerves will shut off the signals after about 20 minutes.

You'll read how MRIs mention disc degeneration in a certain disc... when in fact that disc is degenerated in everyone by age 20. It sounds scary, but is completely meaningless.

You'll read about giving doctors blind Coke-Pepsi comparisons of MRIs, they will say "This guy must be in terrible pain and this guy is fine", when in actuality the guy with all of the herniation and bulges is fine, and the guy with the perfect MRI is doubled over in agony.

Any and every "Yeah, but what if" you can think of he explains.

Look at it this way: In the 1970s there was an epidemic of peptic ulcers. However, once doctors told patients that stress causes the ulcers, ulcers no longer served the purpose of distracting people from the problems in the mind. That is basically what ended the peptic ulcer epidemic.

What did the mind do then to protect itself? It switched to back pain. If doctors began telling their patients that their back pain is caused by stress the back pain epidemic would end like the peptic ulcer epidemic ended.

One of the points in the book is that we get this pain because we *CAN* get this pain. In reviewing medical histories, Dr. Sarno found that in times/places when/where if people didn't work they didn't eat, none of this back was in any of the medical records.

I was reading his book at the same time I was going to physical therapy. My PT was the Philippines and I asked him if ever in the Philippines, where 40% of the country survives on $1 a day, he ever knew of anyone who experienced back pains like I was, where I couldn't go to work.

He thought about it a second, and said, "No, we don't have this problem in the Philippines."

And the reason they don't, is because they can't.

READ.... THE..... BOOK!

[jimnyc]

If you say it and believe it, I would say yeah, 100%.

Plant those negative seeds!:dance:

You sound like my Mom, she used to tell me when I crossed my eyes to stop, that if I kept doing it that they were going to stay that way! :laugh:

Call me nuts, I just like to pick on myself at times, I make it easy for myself!

[jimnyc]

Jim, really, just read the book.

I had all of that stuff too on my MRI. "Herniated disc," "bulging disc," "degenerated disc."

Dr. Sarno will tell you how any simple analysis of the herniated disc, and any nerves in the vicinity that could be pinched, almost never have any connection to where the pain is. In other words, if the herniated disc is pressing on a nerve, one should be able to follow the nerve's path to where the pain is. Never happens.

He will explain the composition of nerve tissue, and how if it did ever actually get pinched by two discs, nerves will shut off the signals after about 20 minutes.

You'll read how MRIs mention disc degeneration in a certain disc... when in fact that disc is degenerated in everyone by age 20. It sounds scary, but is completely meaningless.

Let me go back 7 years or so, prior to my last surgery and prior to the diagnosis. I had excruciating pain by my left shoulder blade, and sometimes it felt as if it were underneath it. Sometimes it felt like it was the knob of the shoulder where it connects to my arm. Sometimes it felt like it was my bicep/tricep area, and other times it was a radiating pain from the shoulder down to my finger tips. At first, I had thought it was a stiff neck, until the pain got a bit worse. Then I thought I hurt my shoulder somehow. Then I just plain out was confused since the pain traveled.

But having no clue whatsoever about a disc, and the thought never even crossing my mind, WHAT was causing all of this then? The pain was in fact real, no 2 ways about it. The pain certainly never shut off. With no one to "intervene" or tell me stories for about 2-3 months before I saw a doctor, wasn't this pain in fact "real"? And if not a discectomy to relieve the pressure that a disc was placing on my spinal cord, what else could have been done?

[taft2012]

I'm not saying the pain isn't real. I had it too. It felt like I had gotten shot in the shoulder and the bullet had been left inside me. I was popping Percocets too.

At one point it felt like I had tendonitis in my right elbow. The pain left there and went to my back. Dr. Sarno didn't know I had this pain when he wrote his book, but when I read his book he was describing exactly the pain in my elbow.

He also writes in his book how once you understand the problem, the mind is not willing to easily let go of this simple solution to distract you from the stress in your mind, so it will attempt to recreate the pain in other parts of your back. Sure enough, once I concentrated the pain out of my neck and shoulders, I began getting spasms in my lower back. If it was disc herniation causing the pain in my neck and shoulders, how then to explain the pain leaving there forever and traveling to my lower back?

And then finally disappearing for good?

READ..THE....BOOK.

Actually, there are also a few Sarno videos on YouTube. Check them out.

[taft2012]

But having no clue whatsoever about a disc, and the thought never even crossing my mind, WHAT was causing all of this then?

People who had ulcers caused by stress only felt pain until they had an official diagnosis. Just like you with your back.

Not have the official diagnosis ahead of time does not preclude the unconscious/subconscious mind from creating diversions. In fact, that's basically the definition of unconscious/subconscious activity.

[Abbey Marie]

Jim, really, just read the book.

I had all of that stuff too on my MRI. "Herniated disc," "bulging disc," "degenerated disc."

Dr. Sarno will tell you how any simple analysis of the herniated disc, and any nerves in the vicinity that could be pinched, almost never have any connection to where the pain is. In other words, if the herniated disc is pressing on a nerve, one should be able to follow the nerve's path to where the pain is. Never happens.

He will explain the composition of nerve tissue, and how if it did ever actually get pinched by two discs, nerves will shut off the signals after about 20 minutes.

You'll read how MRIs mention disc degeneration in a certain disc... when in fact that disc is degenerated in everyone by age 20. It sounds scary, but is completely meaningless.

You'll read about giving doctors blind Coke-Pepsi comparisons of MRIs, they will say "This guy must be in terrible pain and this guy is fine", when in actuality the guy with all of the herniation and bulges is fine, and the guy with the perfect MRI is doubled over in agony.

Any and every "Yeah, but what if" you can think of he explains.

Look at it this way: In the 1970s there was an epidemic of peptic ulcers. However, once doctors told patients that stress causes the ulcers, ulcers no longer served the purpose of distracting people from the problems in the mind. That is basically what ended the peptic ulcer epidemic.

What did the mind do then to protect itself? It switched to back pain. If doctors began telling their patients that their back pain is caused by stress the back pain epidemic would end like the peptic ulcer epidemic ended.

One of the points in the book is that we get this pain because we *CAN* get this pain. In reviewing medical histories, Dr. Sarno found that in times/places when/where if people didn't work they didn't eat, none of this back was in any of the medical records.

I was reading his book at the same time I was going to physical therapy. My PT was the Philippines and I asked him if ever in the Philippines, where 40% of the country survives on $1 a day, he ever knew of anyone who experienced back pains like I was, where I couldn't go to work.

He thought about it a second, and said, "No, we don't have this problem in the Philippines."

And the reason they don't, is because they can't.

READ.... THE..... BOOK!

I thought what ended the peptic ulcer epidemic was the discovery that they were caused by bacterium?