Wanna Bet There Will Be Calls

[Kathianne]

for ending the electoral college?

http://city-journal.com/2012/eon0705tg.html


Tim Groseclose


Mitt Romney’s Electoral College Advantage
Why the GOP nominee has a slight edge in the one poll that counts
5 July 2012


Suppose that this November’s presidential election is so close that one candidate wins the popular vote and the other wins the Electoral College (and thus the election). Which candidate, Mitt Romney or Barack Obama, or neither, holds an edge in the Electoral College system for choosing U.S. presidents? Though his advantage is small, I believe it belongs to Romney...

[Mr. P]

Liberals have been grumbling about it for yrs. They want a true Democracy instead of a Republic. Removing the electoral college is a must to achieve that.

They have NO idea what the tragic result/s of doing so would be. IMO

[mundame]

The Electoral College currently favors Obama: 221 to 181, according to RealClearPolitics. They consider 12 states "battleground" states that can't be called so far.

I am surprised at the number of polls around which don't reflect the usual neutral polling going on at all --- push polls?

Anyway, the 2000 election was one in which the Electoral College trumped the popular vote, and so was the first Nixon election, IIRC. So we're used to it.

With the franchise having been extended to deadbeats, illiterates, homeless, felons, etc. in very recent times --- for nearly the whole history of democracy voting was only allowed to stakeholders who owned property and were reasonably prosperous, since it was going to be their money and resources being used -- it is only the Electoral College that keeps Inner City dwellers from having the dominant say in political issue.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Pure democray= mob rule. Many are all for that. Especially the government tit suckers. As they think it a solid way to insure their free ride forever. To damn ignorant to understand that it most likely would lead to a dictatorship or ruling junta(same thing). -Tyr

[mundame]

Pure democray= mob rule. Many are all for that. Especially the government tit suckers. As they think it a solid way to insure their free ride forever. To damn ignorant to understand that it most likely would lead to a dictatorship or ruling junta(same thing). -Tyr

Well, and impoverishment. They want to steal all the money rich people have, not considering that as soon as the mob starts confiscating, the wealth promptly disappears, one way or another.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Well, and impoverishment. They want to steal all the money rich people have, not considering that as soon as the mob starts confiscating, the wealth promptly disappears, one way or another.

Wealth and great wealth accumulation in a Capitalist society/economy is the "tide" that lifts all ships. Destroy the "tide" ( their goal,obama's goal) and poverty , tumult , chaos and turmoil follows. Such is always ripe for a dictator to take control. It's an old formula that has been used many times before as history has shown. Obama the puppet does the bidding of foreign masters. -Tyr

[fj1200]

Pure democray= mob rule. Many are all for that. Especially the government tit suckers. As they think it a solid way to insure their free ride forever. To damn ignorant to understand that it most likely would lead to a dictatorship or ruling junta(same thing). -Tyr

Ending the EC =/= pure democracy.

[PostmodernProphet]

without the electoral college, presidents could win elections by calling for the federal government to assume the debts of California and New York......

[mundame]

without the electoral college, presidents could win elections by calling for the federal government to assume the debts of California and New York......

I know it's off topic, but I don't understand why the European federation idea is to get Germany and Netherlands to pay off all the debts of Spain and Portugal and Greece and Cyprus and so on, and they say that would be like America -----

But in fact we DON'T pay off the debts of the state of California. They're on their own; they're going bankrupt bigtime because they borrowed and spent too much.

So I don't understand why Europe wants to be federated like us at all. If anyone understands this issue, I wish you'd post something on it.

[aboutime]

I know it's off topic, but I don't understand why the European federation idea is to get Germany and Netherlands to pay off all the debts of Spain and Portugal and Greece and Cyprus and so on, and they say that would be like America -----

But in fact we DON'T pay off the debts of the state of California. They're on their own; they're going bankrupt bigtime because they borrowed and spent too much.

So I don't understand why Europe wants to be federated like us at all. If anyone understands this issue, I wish you'd post something on it.

First, and formost. The United States of America is a Republic....not a Federation. And Europe has failed to understand the principles of Independence, as in Each nation rules it's own, under it's own rules, or constitutional principles.
That originally was behind the idea of the EURO becoming a uniform currency for all of Europe. There seemed to be a belief...Like NATO, that if all nations in Europe called themselves members of a FEDERATION. Then....nations like Germany would somehow, automatically become responsible for PAYING down the debts of other Federation nations.
Problem is. The endless spending, and lower productivity, or creation of Income allowed nations to SPEND, SPEND, SPEND, until the money dried up. Then...like Greece. They had nowhere to run.
We won't allow that to happen here in the U.S.A. since each State, or Territory has it's own Govt, led by a Gov, and a House/Senate established under separate constitutions.
If OBAMA can tell the TREASURY to make more money, then give it to the separate states to SAVE THEM. Eventually. ALL OF US go broke. SOUND FAMILIAR?

[mundame]

The endless spending, and lower productivity, or creation of Income allowed nations to SPEND, SPEND, SPEND, until the money dried up. Then...like Greece. They had nowhere to run.
We won't allow that to happen here in the U.S.A. since each State, or Territory has it's own Govt, led by a Gov, and a House/Senate established under separate constitutions.
If OBAMA can tell the TREASURY to make more money, then give it to the separate states to SAVE THEM. Eventually. ALL OF US go broke. SOUND FAMILIAR?


Yeah, we don't do that, so far. If states get wildly into debt, they just have to get out of it as best they can. They can't go to Washington (like Brussels) and say, "Gimme a bailout!" Profligate states that borrow and borrow and spend and spend like Maryland or California can't go to successful states like North Dakota or Wisconsin and say, "Pay our bills for us!!"

But that's what the Europeans seem to think happens over here; it's what Greece and Spain WANT to happen. Germany should pay and pay and pay and the southern countries should get to spend and spend and spend -----

I think they have a mistaken point of view about what federation of states is all about. If they think being a "United States" means they spend and Germany pays for everybody else, I don't think that is actually going to work.

[aboutime]

[/B][/B]
Yeah, we don't do that, so far. If states get wildly into debt, they just have to get out of it as best they can. They can't go to Washington (like Brussels) and say, "Gimme a bailout!" Profligate states that borrow and borrow and spend and spend like Maryland or California can't go to successful states like North Dakota or Wisconsin and say, "Pay our bills for us!!"

But that's what the Europeans seem to think happens over here; it's what Greece and Spain WANT to happen. Germany should pay and pay and pay and the southern countries should get to spend and spend and spend -----

I think they have a mistaken point of view about what federation of states is all about. If they think being a "United States" means they spend and Germany pays for everybody else, I don't think that is actually going to work.


Well stated. Just wonder how long Germany will allow the other NEEDY nations to betray her?
It's also really sad about how terribly UNINFORMED a large percentage of our American population HAS NO IDEA what is taking place in Europe, not to mention not understanding what is happening in their own states, counties, cities, and towns.
The Dems, and Obama are FULLY DEPENDENT upon this nation remaining Uninformed, and Under-educated BEFORE elections.

[mundame]

It's also really sad about how terribly UNINFORMED a large percentage of our American population HAS NO IDEA what is taking place in Europe...


It is pulling teeth to get anyone in this country to take an interest in the European crisis, even on political forums, where the smartest and best-educated Americans tend to hang out. We just don't care about Europe!

I think it's strange, since the presidential election probably hangs on what's going on there, and also whether we go into a double-dip recession.

We don't like to pay attention to anywhere but us, but sometimes other places, especially Europe DO end up being an issue for us ---- WWI was one such issue, WWII was another, and Russia determined to conquer the world with the threat of nukes to make the whole world communist was another. I think Europe just came around on the guitar again........

But we just want it to go away. We don't really believe anything that happens there can be important.

[PostmodernProphet]

, and they say that would be like America -----

I've never heard anyone claim that would be like America.....I've heard people say that if California doesn't reign in its spending it would be like Greece.....

[mundame]

I've never heard anyone claim that would be like America.....I've heard people say that if California doesn't reign in its spending it would be like Greece.....


Yes, the idea of a united Europe was to keep the big wars from breaking out again and again --- like America. Our states don't war with each other. They knew a monetary union should be subsequent to a federation, a political union, but couldn't get that (hey, they all speak different languages and hate each other...) so they decided that a monetary union, one Euro Zone, would LEAD to political union.

And they SAY that political union, like us, solves all the problems of a monetary union, but I can't see it; it's not solving California or Michigan, after all.

[aboutime]

It is pulling teeth to get anyone in this country to take an interest in the European crisis, even on political forums, where the smartest and best-educated Americans tend to hang out. We just don't care about Europe!

I think it's strange, since the presidential election probably hangs on what's going on there, and also whether we go into a double-dip recession.

We don't like to pay attention to anywhere but us, but sometimes other places, especially Europe DO end up being an issue for us ---- WWI was one such issue, WWII was another, and Russia determined to conquer the world with the threat of nukes to make the whole world communist was another. I think Europe just came around on the guitar again........

But we just want it to go away. We don't really believe anything that happens there can be important.

Once again. Your statement above reminds me of one I generally like to repeat. Which is a WARNING to Americans.
It says... Those who ignore, or forget History, are Doomed to Repeat it.
Unfortunately. For the last few decades in American History. Our children are not being taught American History the way many of us...Older people were.
Today. Even the people who call themselves Teachers, and Professors haven't had the proper training, or been taught American History enough to TEACH anyone else.
The vicious circle of Ignorance is like a Balloon being filled with water. At some point. If it is permitted to fill with NOTHING BUT HOT AIR....it generally explodes.