Sigh... I am SO SICK OF DRAMA finding me! Now it is affecting my business... (LONG)

[KitchenKitten99]

I try to keep a self-contained persona, especially as a business owner who is pretty well known around the DT area I live in.

DH and I live in a small townhome development where we are great friends with the neighbors...except the ones across from us.

We have never really done anything to them but they are the DINK (this is how they will be referred to going forward) types who hate kids (they make it clear at any interaction), but they live in a kid-filled development, and DH and I have 5 alone. Neighbors have about 2-4 each themselves.

We rent, as do most of who live there. DINKS own theirs. They also have a superiority complex. Most of the time we all ignore them, and everyone else does too. However they tend to inject themselves into every situation possible to assert the fact that THEY own their place while we all must be deadbeats and poor people because we rent. Ugh.

Normally I don't engage in this crap but when I had a couple friends stay with us until their new house was ready (their current place's lease ended and the new place was supposed to be ready, but obviously as government inspectors move slowly like they do, it was delayed). They have two young kids so I wasn't about to let them sleep in their cars, especially with how hot it was getting.

Anyway, the DINKS got all upset at a bunch of BS stuff that was not really affecting them (such as a short-term parking situation that wasn't illegal nor obstructing the DINK's cars). I told them to suck it up and deal with it. This angered Mrs. Dink. She started calling me AND my friends (to their faces) trailer trash and all sorts of childish names.

I really didn't engage much and just let it go. Then within the same evening, the DINKS went out to dinner and came back. My friends had things they had to go do, so I was hanging out with the neighbors and we were 'beer can bowling' with a softball, near where my friend's car was parked before.

Well, the DINKS came back and Mrs. Dink was obviously 3-sheets. She started yelling stuff like 'hey isn't it great you can do this because there aren't any trailer park trash cars in the way', and all sorts of crap. The neighbors and I just told her to can it and go in her house. She didn't. She continued. I got sick of it and just yelled back "At least I don't cheat on my husband". Which touched a nerve...cuz apparently from a couple of neighbors confirming it... she slept around with a couple of the single guys who lived next door (had since moved out) and was quite popular with the young guys at a local bar down the road. Honestly, I was just trying to get her to shut her yapper and go in her house.

She came after me and if Mr. Dink hadn't held her back, she would have attacked me physically. Then I thought that was where it ended because they went in their house and for the past couple weeks, we haven't seen much of them both. I thought for sure that they were gonna split up because she was gone for a week straight after that. This was about a month ago now.

Well, being the spiteful and angry soul she is... now she is going online to Yelp.com and posting under anonymous names and pulling our ranking down, and saying negative things about me (which are definitely not true nor is some of the other information she posted not true). While online reviews should always be taken with a grain of salt, not everyone realizes that.

We have contacted Yelp.com and they are not of any help, stating that the opinions are just that. I asked why the reviews that show us positively, and are more recent (thanks to our REAL customers going to defend us) are hidden unless you register your info and those reviews also are not counted in the 'ratings'. I got a general response that talked about 'filter algorithms'... basically BS. Initially it says we have only 3 reviews. When in reality, we have 11 when you add in the EIGHT filtered reviews that you cannot possibly know are there unless you are told.

Apparently I am not the only one having issues with Yelp.com. While I don't read the HuffPost, I found this in a google search.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/28/yelp-reviews_n_985513.html

Quote from one of the slides:
A blog post on the SFWeekly website this week brought a troubling Yelp-related incident (http://blogs.sfweekly.com/foodie/2011/09/yelp_lying_about_working_for_s.php) to light. A Yelper claimed, falsely, to be a writer for SFWeekly in a restaurant review. SF Weekly's Food editor caught the lie and contacted the reviewer; she admitted that she actually wrote for SF Weekly Voice, and said she'd ask Yelp to change the review. But the website refused to amend the review -- a representative told SF Weekly that the lie in question was "personal opinion."

My husband has written responses to these two reviews, but I really don't see this doing much. I am just sick over this. I know I shouldn't be over just an online review but still... we have to continue to grow the business as it is not at that sweet spot of daily sales that we need to be profitable.

I hate this drama, and I really don't go looking for it. I just seem to attract it like this. Why can't I just lead a quiet, normal life where I don't deal with the daily BS that seems to flow my way??? If it isn't the MN Dept of Revenue breathing down our neck, the owner of the bar next door to our shop is griping to us about something...now this.

Thanks for listening/reading.

[aboutime]

I try to keep a self-contained persona, especially as a business owner who is pretty well known around the DT area I live in.

DH and I live in a small townhome development where we are great friends with the neighbors...except the ones across from us.

We have never really done anything to them but they are the DINK (this is how they will be referred to going forward) types who hate kids (they make it clear at any interaction), but they live in a kid-filled development, and DH and I have 5 alone. Neighbors have about 2-4 each themselves.

We rent, as do most of who live there. DINKS own theirs. They also have a superiority complex. Most of the time we all ignore them, and everyone else does too. However they tend to inject themselves into every situation possible to assert the fact that THEY own their place while we all must be deadbeats and poor people because we rent. Ugh.

Normally I don't engage in this crap but when I had a couple friends stay with us until their new house was ready (their current place's lease ended and the new place was supposed to be ready, but obviously as government inspectors move slowly like they do, it was delayed). They have two young kids so I wasn't about to let them sleep in their cars, especially with how hot it was getting.

Anyway, the DINKS got all upset at a bunch of BS stuff that was not really affecting them (such as a short-term parking situation that wasn't illegal nor obstructing the DINK's cars). I told them to suck it up and deal with it. This angered Mrs. Dink. She started calling me AND my friends (to their faces) trailer trash and all sorts of childish names.

I really didn't engage much and just let it go. Then within the same evening, the DINKS went out to dinner and came back. My friends had things they had to go do, so I was hanging out with the neighbors and we were 'beer can bowling' with a softball, near where my friend's car was parked before.

Well, the DINKS came back and Mrs. Dink was obviously 3-sheets. She started yelling stuff like 'hey isn't it great you can do this because there aren't any trailer park trash cars in the way', and all sorts of crap. The neighbors and I just told her to can it and go in her house. She didn't. She continued. I got sick of it and just yelled back "At least I don't cheat on my husband". Which touched a nerve...cuz apparently from a couple of neighbors confirming it... she slept around with a couple of the single guys who lived next door (had since moved out) and was quite popular with the young guys at a local bar down the road. Honestly, I was just trying to get her to shut her yapper and go in her house.

She came after me and if Mr. Dink hadn't held her back, she would have attacked me physically. Then I thought that was where it ended because they went in their house and for the past couple weeks, we haven't seen much of them both. I thought for sure that they were gonna split up because she was gone for a week straight after that. This was about a month ago now.

Well, being the spiteful and angry soul she is... now she is going online to Yelp.com and posting under anonymous names and pulling our ranking down, and saying negative things about me (which are definitely not true nor is some of the other information she posted not true). While online reviews should always be taken with a grain of salt, not everyone realizes that.

We have contacted Yelp.com and they are not of any help, stating that the opinions are just that. I asked why the reviews that show us positively, and are more recent (thanks to our REAL customers going to defend us) are hidden unless you register your info and those reviews also are not counted in the 'ratings'. I got a general response that talked about 'filter algorithms'... basically BS. Initially it says we have only 3 reviews. When in reality, we have 11 when you add in the EIGHT filtered reviews that you cannot possibly know are there unless you are told.

Apparently I am not the only one having issues with Yelp.com. While I don't read the HuffPost, I found this in a google search.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/28/yelp-reviews_n_985513.html

Quote from one of the slides:

My husband has written responses to these two reviews, but I really don't see this doing much. I am just sick over this. I know I shouldn't be over just an online review but still... we have to continue to grow the business as it is not at that sweet spot of daily sales that we need to be profitable.

I hate this drama, and I really don't go looking for it. I just seem to attract it like this. Why can't I just lead a quiet, normal life where I don't deal with the daily BS that seems to flow my way??? If it isn't the MN Dept of Revenue breathing down our neck, the owner of the bar next door to our shop is griping to us about something...now this.

Thanks for listening/reading.


There are remedies for idiots who think everyone else owes them special treatment. So, you might consider a friendly visit to your local police precinct. Ask for their help. Make it known, and get someone to make a record of your visit.
If this drama...which is obviously more like harassment continues.
You can ask for a version of a Restraining Order that can last for whatever period of time they see fit.
The good thing about an R.O. is. The other person is also notified about the Restraining Order as well.
If they continue to create all kinds of hate, and discontent. They will pay.
P.S. If you have neighbors who also feel as you do. Take one of them with you when you visit the Police.

[mundame]

Great story. Thanks for sharing. I hope the neighbor from Hell doesn't put you out of business!

I'm test-driving the Silver Rule as an all-purpose ethical behavior process. "Don't do to others what you wouldn't want them to do to you." Big, small, any and every issue. No matter how much they deserve it.....and do they ever deserve it!!

But doing what they deserve is the Bronze Rule ---- Doing to others whatever they did to you.

For me, that tends to feel better than it works out in practice.

Darn it.

[mundame]

There are remedies for idiots who think everyone else owes them special treatment. So, you might consider a friendly visit to your local police precinct. Ask for their help. Make it known, and get someone to make a record of your visit.
If this drama...which is obviously more like harassment continues.
You can ask for a version of a Restraining Order that can last for whatever period of time they see fit.
The good thing about an R.O. is. The other person is also notified about the Restraining Order as well.
If they continue to create all kinds of hate, and discontent. They will pay.
P.S. If you have neighbors who also feel as you do. Take one of them with you when you visit the Police.

Hmmmmmmm...I think aboutime is giving very good advice here. People just walk right up screaming insults at you in the street? Darn, I'd call that harassment. And try to ruin your business?

Yes, it might be time for a visit from Officer Friendly to Mrs. Insult. Or a restraining order, indeed. Disturbing the peace is going on.

[Gaffer]

Find a way to get her to get on here and post. I'm sure we can make her as welcome as wind song. :laugh:

Not much you can do about it when the drama comes to you. At least you can get on here and rant to blow off steam. Karma's a bitch and someday they will experience it.

[KitchenKitten99]

Great story. Thanks for sharing. I hope the neighbor from Hell doesn't put you out of business!

I'm test-driving the Silver Rule as an all-purpose ethical behavior process. "Don't do to others what you wouldn't want them to do to you." Big, small, any and every issue. No matter how much they deserve it.....and do they ever deserve it!!

But doing what they deserve is the Bronze Rule ---- Doing to others whatever they did to you.

For me, that tends to feel better than it works out in practice.

Darn it.

We have too many loyal people and continue to gain more new customers who say they love the shop and will be back. I don't think she can single-handedly put us out of business but let's say this situation isn't helping either.

[aboutime]

We have too many loyal people and continue to gain more new customers who say they love the shop and will be back. I don't think she can single-handedly put us out of business but let's say this situation isn't helping either.


Obviously. That woman doesn't give a crap about your business, or you. Don't let it go, thinking all will change, and she'll just go away. That's not gonna happen as long as...so-to-speak, You just turn the other cheek, or attempt to ignore her.

Not trying to tell you what to do. But I honestly do believe. Unless you inform the police about her actions, and you keep YOUR COOL, without any retribution. She will continue to think...(I use that word..think...loosely) she can keep on being a big, Pain in the Butt for you.

Before it gets out of hand. Just let the police know. There is a Growing Problem, and ask for their Help.
That's my take on it.
It's up to you.

[KitchenKitten99]

Find a way to get her to get on here and post. I'm sure we can make her as welcome as wind song. :laugh:

Not much you can do about it when the drama comes to you. At least you can get on here and rant to blow off steam. Karma's a bitch and someday they will experience it.

Ha ha, yeah I know you would make her feel 'welcome' but really I don't see that doing much good.

Yeah, Karma will get her.

Hmmm.. I was thinking of sending a bouquet of roses to her house with a note that says 'Thanks for the Noon-er, sorry about your deceased husband. I hope we can get together again'. Maybe I should send something (like food or chocolates) to HIM saying something similar about her... turn the tables on her a bit? ProFlowers has a deal on a wine and chocolate gift basket... :dev2::rolleyes:

Not that I would ever really do that. Tempting, and fun to think about what would ensue should I ever really execute, but when it comes down to it... I don't want karma on me for that one. Not sure of the real status of her marriage but I know Mr. Dink is obese and not very good looking. She isn't too bad looking, but she's what I call 'gold-plated'. Shiny on the outside, not worth two cents on the inside. And I am guessing he's desperate since he actually takes the bus that DH takes and apparently he's not too popular on there either from what DH says he does on the bus.

[aboutime]

Ha ha, yeah I know you would make her feel 'welcome' but really I don't see that doing much good.

Yeah, Karma will get her.

Hmmm.. I was thinking of sending a bouquet of roses to her house with a note that says 'Thanks for the Noon-er, sorry about your deceased husband. I hope we can get together again'. Maybe I should send something (like food or chocolates) to HIM saying something similar about her... turn the tables on her a bit? ProFlowers has a deal on a wine and chocolate gift basket... :dev2::rolleyes:

Not that I would ever really do that. Tempting, and fun to think about what would ensue should I ever really execute, but when it comes down to it... I don't want karma on me for that one. Not sure of the real status of her marriage but I know Mr. Dink is obese and not very good looking. She isn't too bad looking, but she's what I call 'gold-plated'. Shiny on the outside, not worth two cents on the inside. And I am guessing he's desperate since he actually takes the bus that DH takes and apparently he's not too popular on there either from what DH says he does on the bus.


Why did you bring all of this up if you're not really willing to Seriously handle it?
Sounds to me like you really aren't concerned about your business.
Sorry I butted in.

[red state]

Aboutime is giving terrible advice!!!! Try the "going to the mattress" approach. Leave the head of a dead horse in their bed. They'll never bother you again (promise). Seriously though, Aboutime is very wise and I'd follow his advice (but I'd probably get as many witnesses as possible in addition to some footage if it is as bad as you say). I'll be happy when I'm as old as aboutime and able to hand out good advice. You don't get as old as aboutime without dealing with most of life's little dramas. Of course, the drama of Obama is something that none of us saw coming and is definitely something that causes all of us a great deal of concern.

[KitchenKitten99]

Why did you bring all of this up if you're not really willing to Seriously handle it?
Sounds to me like you really aren't concerned about your business.
Sorry I butted in.

I can handle it... I just don't think doing that type of stuff is handling it the right way.

I actually think I probably will let the police dept know about it. We already have issues recorded with them making threats and such. The PD knows me (probably too well) because of them.

I just don't know how much they can do about online BS and the fact that the names posted on the site are not the same as the neighbor's. I only know it is her/them because they said similar stuff to me in-person before.

But like I said... it is an online dispute thing that I really will have a hard time proving that it is her. Unless the police take me seriously and take THIS whole issue seriously, and actually force Yelp.com to give the registration information (email, etc) and the IP address. However I don't see that actually happening.

You see, I have to have some proof rather than just 'reasonble suspicion' that it is her/him/them both. All it does then is make me look like a 5yo tattle-tale.

[KitchenKitten99]

Anyone want their address to send stuff for me so I am not really 'directly' involved? I can even give their first and last names. :dev2:

[aboutime]

I can handle it... I just don't think doing that type of stuff is handling it the right way.

I actually think I probably will let the police dept know about it. We already have issues recorded with them making threats and such. The PD knows me (probably too well) because of them.

I just don't know how much they can do about online BS and the fact that the names posted on the site are not the same as the neighbor's. I only know it is her/them because they said similar stuff to me in-person before.

But like I said... it is an online dispute thing that I really will have a hard time proving that it is her. Unless the police take me seriously and take THIS whole issue seriously, and actually force Yelp.com to give the registration information (email, etc) and the IP address. However I don't see that actually happening.

You see, I have to have some proof rather than just 'reasonble suspicion' that it is her/him/them both. All it does then is make me look like a 5yo tattle-tale.


Maybe you aren't aware. Most police departments also have divisions that deal with ONLINE crimes as well. If there is a viable complaint about threats. That is Serious stuff, even online.
They can tell where the messages come from. Much like this FORUM knows what Server, and Internet Provider You, and I are using...whenever they want to know it.
So. If the police know you. That's a start.

[Gaffer]

Ha ha, yeah I know you would make her feel 'welcome' but really I don't see that doing much good.

Yeah, Karma will get her.

Hmmm.. I was thinking of sending a bouquet of roses to her house with a note that says 'Thanks for the Noon-er, sorry about your deceased husband. I hope we can get together again'. Maybe I should send something (like food or chocolates) to HIM saying something similar about her... turn the tables on her a bit? ProFlowers has a deal on a wine and chocolate gift basket... :dev2::rolleyes:

Not that I would ever really do that. Tempting, and fun to think about what would ensue should I ever really execute, but when it comes down to it... I don't want karma on me for that one. Not sure of the real status of her marriage but I know Mr. Dink is obese and not very good looking. She isn't too bad looking, but she's what I call 'gold-plated'. Shiny on the outside, not worth two cents on the inside. And I am guessing he's desperate since he actually takes the bus that DH takes and apparently he's not too popular on there either from what DH says he does on the bus.

Any of the local cops frequent your store? Might be a good idea to put a bee in their bonnet about what's going on. Grease the axle for future need. Sounds like the dinks are not popular anywhere.

[KitchenKitten99]

Maybe you aren't aware. Most police departments also have divisions that deal with ONLINE crimes as well. If there is a viable complaint about threats. That is Serious stuff, even online.
They can tell where the messages come from. Much like this FORUM knows what Server, and Internet Provider You, and I are using...whenever they want to know it.
So. If the police know you. That's a start.

Ok, I am not sure you are reading the past post correctly.

She hasn't threatened me online, only in person Here is a copy & paste of one of the 'reviews' she wrote:


What a great location and the build out was done with class but, that's where it ends.
The women behind the counter couldn't be more ill placed in a job. She has little or no
class and is rude to boot. Anoka is a service town and has done very well in letting
the public know that fact. Little Havana does little to keep that image in place. cigar
prices and selection are so-so. Hire someone who cares.

"Ill-placed in a job" I am one of the owners!

"Hire someone who cares" Really? Right after she actually mentions something about the store itself.

The one she posted before says I don't know anything about cigars. Yeah. And we have survived 2+ years with me running it and not knowing a damned thing. Sure. It also says 'hardly any seating' which means they were never in the store to begin with, because we have 20+ spots. Two lounges, a poker/gaming table, and a 20' bar-like counter space.

Again... this stuff is not threatening. It is slanderous but I doubt anything can really be done.

More of my frustration is from Yelp.com not putting ALL reviews up for people to read. They 'filter' them. And there is NO WAY I can get my business off their site. The only thing I may do is change all my business information to be some generic name and info so it doesn't link to their site anymore via google searches.

[mundame]

What a great location and the build out was done with class but, that's where it ends.
The women behind the counter couldn't be more ill placed in a job. She has little or no
class and is rude to boot. Anoka is a service town and has done very well in letting
the public know that fact. Little Havana does little to keep that image in place. cigar
prices and selection are so-so. Hire someone who cares.


Yes, I agree with you --- has to be her. Otherwise, why zero in on the "women" behind the counter?


Reminds me of this morning in the grocery store. Maybe because of the holiday stress? some woman was carrying ON to the cashier loudly about how awful some cashier right in the store was to her last week, and how she was going to write emails about it hither and yon ---- she wanted to bag her own groceries, she kept catching the bread so it wouldn't squash, she said, and finally reached around and poked the button that stopped the conveyor belt, and the cashier was angry and then laughed at her and gave her the receipt with her license folded up in it which was so incredibly wrong (she had to use a license at the grocery store?? I don't know what kind of money she was using....)-- This woman made sure the store manager heard all about it today, went over more than once, and generally behaved like a drama queen. This store is so conscientious about its cashiers that I've never seen better. So I suppose it was just the customer being weird! Everyone was nervous after she left. I see that at this store: the cashiers are so nice that some of the more afflicted customers sort of act out. It's the only place they get attention, I suppose.

Tolerance, tolerance, I think. That's what I read is the most important thing for marriage --- I liked that concept. :rolleyes:

[KitchenKitten99]

Yes, I agree with you --- has to be her. Otherwise, why zero in on the "women" behind the counter?

...
I have gotten some advice from a few local friends here saying I should contact an attorney that specializes in this. SAid attorney can petition Yelp for the IP address info of the 'reviewers' and regardless of who it is, we can go after them financially.

If it is her, guess she won't feel so high and mighty when slapped with a lawsuit for damages and legal fees. Plus a restraining order since she seems to be the physical-type.

[mundame]

I have gotten some advice from a few local friends here saying I should contact an attorney that specializes in this. SAid attorney can petition Yelp for the IP address info of the 'reviewers' and regardless of who it is, we can go after them financially.

If it is her, guess she won't feel so high and mighty when slapped with a lawsuit for damages and legal fees. Plus a restraining order since she seems to be the physical-type.


Yeah, I like it --- that really could work. I BET this has happened before with this review site, Yelp. All these public sites get hit with official information requests when their site gets involved with crimes and libel and so on. Of course they have to cooperate to stop that sort of thing.

I was thinking, she may be one of those people who needs a high-voltage life, on the edge, always fighting with someone, to feel alive. My husband married one of those, first time around. And he knew another such woman --- she visited us with her family, and she was just always trying to get people into quarrels. She LOVED quarrelling.

[logroller]

Honestly I don't think the cops will do much. Have you reached out to other business owners who may have had issues with yelp? Because I was thinking if you could put together a group businesses, then mount a campaign with the intent of capturing the attention of media, you'd have some leverage against yelp. Just an idea--power to the People!:salute:

[mundame]

Whoa! Look what JUST THIS SECOND popped up on Fox News! There is more of the piece at the site. It seems directly relevant and does refer to Yelp! as a common problem site for slander and extortion.



"Scammers are making some restaurants an offer they can't refuse: A payoff or discount, or they'll post a nasty rating on online review sites like Yelp! or Angie's List.

There’s no real data showing how often it's happening, but anecdotal evidence suggests cyber-extortion is on the rise: scammers know online reviews carry a lot of weight, and can affect a company’s bottom line.
Some are willing to pay to keep bad reviews from popping up, but not Sonny Mayugba, owner of the popular Red Rabbit Kitchen and Bar in Sacramento. He described how a patron recently tried to shake him down after alleging they got food poisoning.

"He said, 'I'm going to do a scathing review of you on Yelp!, I'm going to make sure my girlfriend does a scathing review on Yelp!, and then I'm going to report you to the health department. However, if you buy me a $100.00 gift card to Ella, which is a nice restaurant here in town, you'll save me from doing all those things.' To me, that was extortion."

Mayugba didn't pay a dime, and that customer's post -- while negative -- didn't mention anything about food poisoning, confirming the owner's suspicion the allegation was made up.

Legal experts say he was wise not to pay, or -- to file a lawsuit. They say if a business is seen as litigious, that can cause just as much damage as a negative review. Free speech advocate Matt Zimmerman, an attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, says the better course is to use social media to explain their side of the story, and work even harder to earn more positive reviews.

"We can't control all speech about us, and we should stop trying," says Zimmerman. "Instead, we should try to encourage the positive feedback, try to encourage a more accurate picture of our business. Even if an ad or post is unfair, a business' more effective response is going to be to create a counter-narrative online."
Victim's of cyber-extortion can't blame the websites. Yelp!, Angie's List, and other review sites are not legally responsible for what their users do. However, if someone crosses the line, and posts something totally false intended to cause harm, that defamatory speech is not protected under the Constitution, and that person could be successfully sued. Attorneys suggest business owners track threats, collect evidence and report them to the police."


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/07/03/scammers-threatening-restaurants-with-negative-reviews/#ixzz1zaOWFJSc
************************************************** ************


Jeepers, seems to me this guy's raw extortion should be reported to the police for criminal charges! Forget about suing in that case, this is actual extortion and that's against the law.

[aboutime]

Too bad you decided to go it alone.

Guess I'll just stay out of it from now on.

I'll watch, and see how it turns out. Reminding me of the line:

"Those who forget History, are doomed to Repeat it."

[KitchenKitten99]

Too bad you decided to go it alone.

Guess I'll just stay out of it from now on.

I'll watch, and see how it turns out. Reminding me of the line:

"Those who forget History, are doomed to Repeat it."


WTF? I haven't decided anything.

I am curious as to why you are so fired up to get involved personally? I mean, if you really want to, I can give you all the info I know about her (name, address, etc), but the problem is that I don't have 100% proof it is her. To get that proof, attorneys and courts need to get involved and honestly, we really don't have that kind of cashflow right now.