Arrested for warning of a speed trap?

[gabosaurus]

I am normally a quite firm supporter of the rights of police. If you evade arrest, you deserve what happens to you.
But I think this case is pretty overboard. It was sent to me by a friend who is more liberal than I am.
Discussion anyone?

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8715510


A woman tried to save drivers from getting ticketed by police and instead ended up in jail herself. Now she claims she was wrongfully arrested.

[ConHog]

I am normally a quite firm supporter of the rights of police. If you evade arrest, you deserve what happens to you.
But I think this case is pretty overboard. It was sent to me by a friend who is more liberal than I am.
Discussion anyone?

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8715510



Deja Vu. I think it was about split the last time we had this thread 50/50.

[aboutime]

But it has been a long, long time since most states announced it was against the law. Much like being behind someone, and flashing your lights to get them to move over to the slow lane.

If something is Declared Illegal, or Against the Law.
Best thing to do to stay out of trouble, avoid breaking the law, and not get a ticket?

Do what the laws say.
Not difficult to do.
And if you disagree with it. Either obey the laws, or get them changed.

[jimnyc]

I've seen people get in trouble (or read about it I should say), for flicking their beams at oncoming cars to warn of the police speed trap. I suppose they have a slim argument for 'obstruction' charges, but I think the driver isn't obstructing to that level by simply hitting his high beams. I'm not the type that has issues really with speed traps, drunk stops and seatbelt stops - but I think this goes a bit far.

Reminds me of a middle aged woman a few years back that was ticketed - because she walked down the street putting quarters in the meters that were going to expire. She was just helping the community. I suppose the police saw it as lost revenue and gave her a ticket (don't recall what for).

[ConHog]

I've seen people get in trouble (or read about it I should say), for flicking their beams at oncoming cars to warn of the police speed trap. I suppose they have a slim argument for 'obstruction' charges, but I think the driver isn't obstructing to that level by simply hitting his high beams. I'm not the type that has issues really with speed traps, drunk stops and seatbelt stops - but I think this goes a bit far.

Reminds me of a middle aged woman a few years back that was ticketed - because she walked down the street putting quarters in the meters that were going to expire. She was just helping the community. I suppose the police saw it as lost revenue and gave her a ticket (don't recall what for).

I don't know Jim, what if people were giving potential burglars a warning that police were around? More severe crime of course, but being a lookout is being a lookout.

I never flash my lights, I think it's funny to see people pulled over. :laugh: Even better if they get tasered and it makes the internet.

[aboutime]

jimney. This is just another sign for all of us to pay attention to today.
As if people aren't trying to change everything....to pacify the few with the biggest mouth.

The whole country seems to have gone mad...ABOUT ANY TOPIC, and ANYTHING anyone can think of to control.
I remember that woman with the parking meters. That was just another reminder.
Look at how Police officers in certain towns, or cities are being forced to FINE little girls sitting in front of their house...selling...or trying to sell... LEMONAIDE.
Just wait a little longer. Soon enough. You and I, and every member of this forum are going to get a NEW TAX...through our Service Provider for our Internet connection. Controlling WHAT, and HOW we talk to each other.
It's not too far away.

[ConHog]

jimney. This is just another sign for all of us to pay attention to today.
As if people aren't trying to change everything....to pacify the few with the biggest mouth.

The whole country seems to have gone mad...ABOUT ANY TOPIC, and ANYTHING anyone can think of to control.
I remember that woman with the parking meters. That was just another reminder.
Look at how Police officers in certain towns, or cities are being forced to FINE little girls sitting in front of their house...selling...or trying to sell... LEMONAIDE.
Just wait a little longer. Soon enough. You and I, and every member of this forum are going to get a NEW TAX...through our Service Provider for our Internet connection. Controlling WHAT, and HOW we talk to each other.
It's not too far away.




What does a tax (which by the way there already are) have to do with you saying what you want , where you want?

PS - Can you link me to any kids' lemonade stands being fined for not having a business license?

[Shadow]

The Inexplicable War on Lemonade Stands

I’m beginning to think that there’s a nation-wide government conspiracy against either lemonade or children, because these lemonade stand shutdowns seem to be getting more and more common. If you set up a stand for your kids, just be prepared for a visit from the cops.In Coralville, Iowa police shut down 4-year-old Abigail Krstinger’s lemonade stand (http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Coralville-Police-Shutdown-Several-Childrens-Lemonade-Stands-126592563.html) after it had been up for half an hour. Dustin Krustinger told reporters that his daughter was selling lemonade at 25 cents a cup during the Register’s Annual Great Bicycle Race Across Iowa (or RAGBRAI (http://ragbrai.com/)), and couldn’t have made more than five dollars, adding “If the line is drawn to the point where a four-year-old eight blocks away can’t sell a couple glasses of lemonade for 25 cents, than I think the line has been drawn at the wrong spot.”
Nearby, mother Bobbie Nelson had her kids’ lemonade stand shutdown as well. Police informed her that a permit would cost $400.

Snip...

These are hardly isolated incidents. From slapping parents with $500 fines (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/269986/yellow-menace-daniel-foster) for letting their kids run unlicensed lemonade stands (though this was later waived (http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/155167/158/County-Shuts-Down-Kids-Lemonade-Stand-500-Fine) after public outcry), to government officials calling the cops on kids (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/radleybalko/~3/42RWsWJl8ps/) selling cupcakes, the list goes on (http://www.krgv.com/news/local/story/Childrens-Lemonade-Stand-Shut-Down-By-City/y4KDMYnzH0uz3emMeRkToA.cspx) and on (http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/money/Alexs_Lemonade_Stand_Shut_Down_In_Philly_061011) and on (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/26/georgia-girl-scout-troops_n_828547.html).

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/08/03/the-inexplicable-war-on-lemonade-stands/

[Nukeman]

Deja Vu. I think it was about split the last time we had this thread 50/50.if by 50/50 you mean about 20 to 1 in favor of warning than yaa your right. Most on here agree the police have no right to detain you for warning of an upcoming speed trap!!

[Thunderknuckles]

I am normally a quite firm supporter of the rights of police. If you evade arrest, you deserve what happens to you.
But I think this case is pretty overboard. It was sent to me by a friend who is more liberal than I am.
Discussion anyone?

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8715510
I haven't googled this yet out of laziness but I think I recall where this or a similar case was taken to court and the judge ruled that it was legal to warn of speed traps. I think he/she used the First Amendment as basis for the decision. I'll have to research a little later unless someone beats me to the punch.

[ConHog]

if by 50/50 you mean about 20 to 1 in favor of warning than yaa your right. Most on here agree the police have no right to detain you for warning of an upcoming speed trap!!

No, I believe it was about even. It certainly wasn't 20:1 either way.

Big deal either way.

[SassyLady]

PS - Can you link me to any kids' lemonade stands being fined for not having a business license?


Shadow beat me to it with her post from Forbes about the Lemonade Stand Crackdown, but here is another one

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Coralville-Police-Shutdown-Several-Childrens-Lemonade-Stands-126592563.html

[ConHog]

PS - Can you link me to any kids' lemonade stands being fined for not having a business license?


Shadow beat me to it with her post from Forbes about the Lemonade Stand Crackdown, but here is another one

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Coralville-Police-Shutdown-Several-Childrens-Lemonade-Stands-126592563.html

I can't see Shadow's posts.


And pathetic to be closing lemonade stands.

[SassyLady]

The Inexplicable War on Lemonade Stands

I’m beginning to think that there’s a nation-wide government conspiracy against either lemonade or children, because these lemonade stand shutdowns seem to be getting more and more common. If you set up a stand for your kids, just be prepared for a visit from the cops.In Coralville, Iowa police shut down 4-year-old Abigail Krstinger’s lemonade stand (http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Coralville-Police-Shutdown-Several-Childrens-Lemonade-Stands-126592563.html) after it had been up for half an hour. Dustin Krustinger told reporters that his daughter was selling lemonade at 25 cents a cup during the Register’s Annual Great Bicycle Race Across Iowa (or RAGBRAI (http://ragbrai.com/)), and couldn’t have made more than five dollars, adding “If the line is drawn to the point where a four-year-old eight blocks away can’t sell a couple glasses of lemonade for 25 cents, than I think the line has been drawn at the wrong spot.”
Nearby, mother Bobbie Nelson had her kids’ lemonade stand shutdown as well. Police informed her that a permit would cost $400.

Snip...

These are hardly isolated incidents. From slapping parents with $500 fines (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/269986/yellow-menace-daniel-foster) for letting their kids run unlicensed lemonade stands (though this was later waived (http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/155167/158/County-Shuts-Down-Kids-Lemonade-Stand-500-Fine) after public outcry), to government officials calling the cops on kids (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/radleybalko/~3/42RWsWJl8ps/) selling cupcakes, the list goes on (http://www.krgv.com/news/local/story/Childrens-Lemonade-Stand-Shut-Down-By-City/y4KDMYnzH0uz3emMeRkToA.cspx) and on (http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/money/Alexs_Lemonade_Stand_Shut_Down_In_Philly_061011) and on (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/26/georgia-girl-scout-troops_n_828547.html).

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/08/03/the-inexplicable-war-on-lemonade-stands/

Here you are ConHog.

[ConHog]

Here you are ConHog.

thanks, but I couldn't see it, because I don't want to.

I acknowledge though that examples of people being threatened with fines if they didn't shut down little kid's lemonade stands have been posted though and that is disgusting. I guess in little rural Arkansas we don't have to worry about those sorts of things.

[Nell's Room]

She was on the side of the road holding up a paper with a message on it. That is distracting, whether she agrees or not. However, I thin that there is nothing wrong with warning people of a speed trap, but do it the old fashioned way - flash your headlights at oncoming cars.

[Kathianne]

What does a tax (which by the way there already are) have to do with you saying what you want , where you want?

PS - Can you link me to any kids' lemonade stands being fined for not having a business license?

http://wusa9.com/news/article/155167/77/Kids-Lemonade-Stand-At-US-Open-Fined-500-And-Shut-Down-By-Montgomery-County

After it became national story, they backed down:


Montgomery County Changes Stance On Lemonade Stand; $500 Fine Waived
UPDATE: Montgomery County officials have allowed the children to reopen their lemonade stand, by relocating it about 100-feet away from the intersection where it was set up Thursday.
The county permits director Jennifer Harris says the neighborhood children, who are raising money to fight pediatric cancer, needed to move their stand from the "main strip," to a more private, safer area. The $500 fine was also waived.



The children include members of 2 Washington power families, the Marriotts (hotels) and the Augustines (Lockheed-Martin).



"This is not big bad bureaucracy coming down on little kids," Hughes explained. She said the inspector was enforcing regulations designed to address concerns about traffic, safety and other non permitted vendors flooding into the area.



Hughes noted the kid's lemonade operation was serving bottled drinks out of 4 large coolers under a 10X10 tent. "This is not what you would see when you picture a typical lemonade stand," she said.



Parent's disagreed. "This feels like a whole lot of government to me," said mom Rene Augustine. However, the parents and kids say that as far as they are concerned the situation is resolved.



BETHESDA, Md. (WUSA) -- You can make a fortune selling parking spots outside the US Open, but don't even dream of setting up a lemonade stand.


A county inspector ordered the Marriott and Augustine kids to shut down the stand they set up on Persimmon Tree Rd., right next to Congressional. And after they allegedly ignored a couple of warnings, the inspector fined their parents $500...

[Kathianne]

She was on the side of the road holding up a paper with a message on it. That is distracting, whether she agrees or not. However, I thin that there is nothing wrong with warning people of a speed trap, but do it the old fashioned way - flash your headlights at oncoming cars.

On this we agree. Any sign written on a paper bag is going to slow people down, obviously her intent, but make rear end accidents much more likely as the try to read the waving sign.

As for the lights flashing:

http://article.wn.com/view/2012/05/25/Speed_trap_warning_OK_to_flash_lights_says_US_judg e_9/


Florida court rules that flashing your headlights to warn of speed cameras is a constitutional right – just don’t try it in Australia.



A judge in the United States has ruled that it’s OK to warn oncoming drivers of a speed camera by flashing your lights.


In Australia the practice is against the law, but Florida judge Alan Dickey has ruled that using your car’s lights to communicate to other road users is “engaging in behaviour protected by the US Constitution”....

[logroller]

I don't know Jim, what if people were giving potential burglars a warning that police were around? More severe crime of course, but being a lookout is being a lookout.

I never flash my lights, I think it's funny to see people pulled over. :laugh: Even better if they get tasered and it makes the internet.

Being a lookout, as in being an accomplice to a crime is a great deal different than warning people to slow down. I would liken it to putting up a neighborhood watch sign in my yard. it is free speech. Especially considering the cardinal intent of th first amendment was to enable the public to criticize government.

[Nell's Room]

On this we agree. Any sign written on a paper bag is going to slow people down, obviously her intent, but make rear end accidents much more likely as the try to read the waving sign.

As for the lights flashing:

http://article.wn.com/view/2012/05/25/Speed_trap_warning_OK_to_flash_lights_says_US_judg e_9/

Flashing your lights might be illegal over here, but we will still do it, no matter what.

[SassyLady]

I never warn anybody about checkpoints or speed traps. I let karma control the situation.

[Shadow]

]thanks, but I couldn't see it, because I don't want to[/B].

I acknowledge though that examples of people being threatened with fines if they didn't shut down little kid's lemonade stands have been posted though and that is disgusting. I guess in little rural Arkansas we don't have to worry about those sorts of things.

Maybe you should try holding your breath until you turn blue next. :laugh:

[fj1200]

Plummer admits she probably will never hold up a similar sign again out near any road.
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8715510

Mission accomplished anyway; another citizen subjecting themselves to the will of the State.

[Thunderknuckles]

On this we agree. Any sign written on a paper bag is going to slow people down, obviously her intent, but make rear end accidents much more likely as the try to read the waving sign.

As for the lights flashing:

http://article.wn.com/view/2012/05/25/Speed_trap_warning_OK_to_flash_lights_says_US_judg e_9/
Thanks Kat for finding that. Looks like my memory served me correctly :)

[Nell's Room]

I never warn anybody about checkpoints or speed traps. I let karma control the situation.

I warn people because those traps are revenue raising anyway. Same with any speed camera, it has nothing too do with making people slow down, and everything to do with making money.

[Noir]

I think arresting her is over the top, maybe a fine idk, however, why anyone would want to warn anyone else is beyond me, if people are speeding then they deserve to be caught.

[Thunderknuckles]

I think arresting her is over the top, maybe a fine idk, however, why anyone would want to warn anyone else is beyond me, if people are speeding then they deserve to be caught.
You don't know how speed traps work in the U.S. Noir. They are just money makers for municipalities. While there are justifiable locations to catch speeders there are also bullshit locations like downhill slopes where the cops just wait for you to go over the limit by gravity alone and tag you. I have one right outside my house. There is a down hill slope going west and the cops always hang out at a particular church when they need to raise funds or meet their "unofficial" ticket quota. Being an immediate local I find it funny. Nevermind the fact that the cops will blow past you on the same road at 15-20 miles over the speed limit when they need to get to work in the morning.

[DragonStryk72]

I've seen people get in trouble (or read about it I should say), for flicking their beams at oncoming cars to warn of the police speed trap. I suppose they have a slim argument for 'obstruction' charges, but I think the driver isn't obstructing to that level by simply hitting his high beams. I'm not the type that has issues really with speed traps, drunk stops and seatbelt stops - but I think this goes a bit far.

Reminds me of a middle aged woman a few years back that was ticketed - because she walked down the street putting quarters in the meters that were going to expire. She was just helping the community. I suppose the police saw it as lost revenue and gave her a ticket (don't recall what for).

Here's my point on this one: If the point of the traps is to get drivers to slow down, then that is being accomplished just as much with the signals. However, why does everyone in the area recognize that as the symbol for speed trap? Usually up here, it's the signal that your headlights aren't on, or your high beams are and shouldn't be. How many speed traps must they be running that the citizenry has come up with their own solutions to protect each other from them? People do not go out of their way to start doing this sort of stuff unless there's a reason for it.

[Kathianne]

Here's my point on this one: If the point of the traps is to get drivers to slow down, then that is being accomplished just as much with the signals. However, why does everyone in the area recognize that as the symbol for speed trap? Usually up here, it's the signal that your headlights aren't on, or your high beams are and shouldn't be. How many speed traps must they be running that the citizenry has come up with their own solutions to protect each other from them? People do not go out of their way to start doing this sort of stuff unless there's a reason for it.

Around here, hi-beam/low-beam means speed. Flicking lights on and off, means your lights aren't on.

[Noir]

You don't know how speed traps work in the U.S. Noir. They are just money makers for municipalities. While there are justifiable locations to catch speeders there are also bullshit locations like downhill slopes where the cops just wait for you to go over the limit by gravity alone and tag you. I have one right outside my house. There is a down hill slope going west and the cops always hang out at a particular church when they need to raise funds or meet their "unofficial" ticket quota. Being an immediate local I find it funny. Nevermind the fact that the cops will blow past you on the same road at 15-20 miles over the speed limit when they need to get to work in the morning.

Well if you're going downhill should almost certainly be breaking to counteract the gravity unless you know you're under the speed limit and it wouldn't matter, I mean, why wouldn't you?

[Kathianne]

Well if you're going downhill should almost certainly be breaking to counteract the gravity unless you know you're under the speed limit and it wouldn't matter, I mean, why wouldn't you?

It's a USA thing I guess, Noir. The rule of thumb is that one can go at least 7mph over without being stopped on local roads. 12mph on highway. That pretty much holds throughout the country. Some more, haven't run into less.

For the most part when one can 'speed' it's because the roads are wide enough and clear enough to do so. In European cities that's not often the case, I've been old. My guess is folks in the country are able to drive faster or just do so?

If I've open road and weather permits and I'm driving over 1000 miles, why would I go 55 or 65 all the way? I wouldn't.

[Noir]

It's a USA thing I guess, Noir. The rule of thumb is that one can go at least 7mph over without being stopped on local roads. 12mph on highway. That pretty much holds throughout the country. Some more, haven't run into less.

For the most part when one can 'speed' it's because the roads are wide enough and clear enough to do so. In European cities that's not often the case, I've been old. My guess is folks in the country are able to drive faster or just do so?

If I've open road and weather permits and I'm driving over 1000 miles, why would I go 55 or 65 all the way? I wouldn't.

So there is some reasonable room for 'bend' in the rules. ie your not going to be stopped because of the extra 3mph you picked up going down a hill.

[Kathianne]

So there is some reasonable room for 'bend' in the rules. ie your not going to be stopped because of the extra 3mph you picked up going down a hill.

However, if you're going 43 in a 35, then start going downhill, pretty quick even with brakes...

[Noir]

However, if you're going 43 in a 35, then start going downhill, pretty quick even with brakes...

If you know you're at the end of the 'gray area' over the speed limit and then start going down hill and you don't apply the breaks then you're an idiot and deserve the ticket.

[Kathianne]

If you know you're at the end of the 'gray area' over the speed limit and then start going down hill and you don't apply the breaks then you're an idiot and deserve the ticket.

I disagree. Most speed traps as has already been mentioned are revenue generating in purpose. Has nothing to do with safety. Speed limits of 35 that should be 50. We're talking 2 and 3 lane divided highways, no residences. Just a hill for a cop to ticket.

Again, I don't expect a Londoner to get it. Much more than a Chicago driver would, from the downtown area. It's not unusual for folks to drive 45 miles to work, then back at night. During their 'ride' they may well go over highway, residential streets, and busy commercial areas. One must make the most of the highways.

[Noir]

I disagree. Most speed traps as has already been mentioned are revenue generating in purpose. Has nothing to do with safety. Speed limits of 35 that should be 50. We're talking 2 and 3 lane divided highways, no residences. Just a hill for a cop to ticket.

Again, I don't expect a Londoner to get it. Much more than a Chicago driver would, from the downtown area. It's not unusual for folks to drive 45 miles to work, then back at night. During their 'ride' they may well go over highway, residential streets, and busy commercial areas. One must make the most of the highways.

I'm not a Londoner. What I do get is that there are speed limits, and you guys are given a large amount of grey area to work with. If you're traveling 8mph+ over the speed limit (no matter how unfair you think it is) you've got little enough reason to moan if you get a ticket.

[Kathianne]

I'm not a Londoner. What I do get is that there are speed limits, and you guys are given a large amount of grey area to work with. If you're traveling 8mph+ over the speed limit (no matter how unfair you think it is) you've got little enough reason to moan if you get a ticket.

We'll take the ticket and hope the cop doesn't show up in court. Then again if he does, we'll take 'supervision' and a reduced fee, with no mark on record. Even our 'rules' are constructed for non-obedience to authority. LOL!

[red states rule]

Seems to me the town is desperate for money and does not like people throwing a wrench into their revenue traps

Just like red light cameras, this is not about law enforcement - it is gathering revenue for the local and state government

When I see a cop along the road I have defective headlights and they go one and off so the approcahing drives in the other lane know to slow down\

Which is what the cops claim to be their goal right? Which is what happened when the women in the OP held up her sign

[darin]

I support just about everything non-violent to oppose taxation via citation. Speed traps - and those who mandate them - are vile, reprehensible and at odds with liberty.

[Noir]

I support just about everything non-violent to oppose taxation via citation. Speed traps - and those who mandate them - are vile, reprehensible and at odds with liberty.

How about the non-violent option of not speeding?

[darin]

How about the non-violent option of not speeding?

The people who get to define "speeding" are corrupt.

[Noir]

The people who get to define "speeding" are corrupt.

and you can ensure they never get a cent of 'speeding' fines from you, by not speeding.

As per Kathi's example above, about having to travel 45 miles to work etc, lets make it 50 (for ease) and look at the numbers.

Traveling on a road that a speed limit of 40mph say, its gonna take you 1.25 hours (85mins) to travel the 50 miles. Traveling at the high end of the 'grey zone' its gonna take you 1.08 hours (68mins) so there's a 17 minute difference between 'at the speed limit' and 'at the max end of the grey zone'. It is thus reasonable to conclude that if the person leaves around 8 minutes earlier in the morning they will never need to come close to being ticketed for speeding over the 50 mile trip.

[darin]

and you can ensure they never get a cent of 'speeding' fines from you, by not speeding.

False premise. Relative to their job, Police often make mistakes. Gear makes mistakes. "Speeding Tickets" are billed as a mechanism for negative-reinforcement of people's otherwise free behaviour. They are presented as evidence of police 'making the roads safer'. However, speeding ticket issuance never made anything safer. And in fact, people are cited and convicted for "crimes" they did not commit. My speeding - my car's actual speed does not matter - what the cop THINKS matters.



As per Kathi's example above, about having to travel 45 miles to work etc, lets make it 50 (for ease) and look at the numbers.

Traveling on a road that a speed limit of 40mph say, its gonna take you 1.25 hours (85mins) to travel the 50 miles. Traveling at the high end of the 'grey zone' its gonna take you 1.08 hours (68mins) so there's a 17 minute difference between 'at the speed limit' and 'at the max end of the grey zone'. It is thus reasonable to conclude that if the person leaves around 8 minutes earlier in the morning they will never need to come close to being ticketed for speeding over the 50 mile trip.


More reasonable -better drivers = faster speeds = more efficient driving = more liberty :)

[red state]

As hinted on above, speed traps are just that and have NOTHING to do with safety. Same goes for speeding cameras that are proven to a major cause for bumper fenders.

[Noir]

False premise. Relative to their job, Police often make mistakes. Gear makes mistakes. "Speeding Tickets" are billed as a mechanism for negative-reinforcement of people's otherwise free behaviour. They are presented as evidence of police 'making the roads safer'. However, speeding ticket issuance never made anything safer. And in fact, people are cited and convicted for "crimes" they did not commit. My speeding - my car's actual speed does not matter - what the cop THINKS matters.

More reasonable -better drivers = faster speeds = more efficient driving = more liberty :)

idk what the law is in America, but in the UK you can request that the camera used to capture your speed is put to a calibration test to ensure its accuracy, i don't see what other mistakes could occur.

Whats your plan for better drivers?

[jimnyc]

idk what the law is in America, but in the UK you can request that the camera used to capture your speed is put to a calibration test to ensure its accuracy, i don't see what other mistakes could occur.

Whats your plan for better drivers?

You can do that here too, along with calibration records for the radars - but it generally takes a lawyer and $$$ to fight to such an extent. The police/courts know that the majority just pay the fines and move along.

[Noir]

You can do that here too, along with calibration records for the radars - but it generally takes a lawyer and $$$ to fight to such an extent. The police/courts know that the majority just pay the fines and move along.

If someone doesn't want the hassle etc then fine, they should accept the fine, but they then can't moan about being a victim of cop/camera error, or be used as an example thereof.

[jimnyc]

If someone doesn't want the hassle etc then fine, they should accept the fine, but they then can't moan about being a victim of cop/camera error, or be used as an example thereof.

Well, the thing is, it's not something you can get reimbursed for, the lawyer and such. So you may fight a $120 ticket at the cost of $750-1000! Most would only do so if rich and for the principle, or if they truly can't afford the points. In small claims court and traffic court, such things are not reimbursable.

[darin]

Whats your plan for better drivers?


it'd start with German licensing requirements. Then, each driver would be placed on a track and evaluated on their skill. Licenses would be graduated - D group allowed day-time travel below posted speed limits, no passengers; restricted to far right lane at all times (left lane from your point of view). C group - most folks would be in C group - General operation, with passengers, right-two most lanes on 3 lane roads. Passengers. B-group - General driving, +15 over speed limit, any lane. A group - Unlimited lane useage - even shoulder-passing when appropriate. No speed limit. Ever.

[red state]

Cash cows are all they are. I live in an area that is notorious for speed traps (Germantown) and now a neighboring town has an even worse reputation than they do. In an area that has no houses or businesses yet is still a four lane hwy, the speed limit goes from 65-55-45-55 and 65 (just in that one little area that has a "convenient" hill. What's bad is that these speeds have changed over the years and they are VERY strict (even when the "offender" has gone a MILE OVER THE SPEED LIMIT)! CASH COW and it isn't any wonder that these sorts of things are usually in wealthy neighborhoods or near State lines. I am definitely certain that the traffic cameras in my area are in 'RICH' neighborhoods ONLY!!!! That is not right and it is especially not right when in New Orleans their speed cameras are owned by foreign entities such as a big corp. in Australia!!!

And while on the subject, I do not believe in road checks...especially if we are not going to close our borders to illegal immigration!!!!

[red state]

The above is correct....unless you are wealthy or simply dead set on principles, one should go ahead and pay the ticket or they are in for a great deal of aggravation as well as out a lot more money.

I fought a ticket for which I was NOT in the wrong and I won....BUT, I still had to pay court fees cuz the judge said that it was only fair to the officer as he can not take sides. I got out of the ticket but the court cost me just as much (if not a little more) and that isn't even counting missing work and rubbing elbows with some very seedy folks who were in the wrong for worse offenses (one of which should have been prosecuted for indecent hygiene). HA!

[Noir]

Well, the thing is, it's not something you can get reimbursed for, the lawyer and such. So you may fight a $120 ticket at the cost of $750-1000! Most would only do so if rich and for the principle, or if they truly can't afford the points. In small claims court and traffic court, such things are not reimbursable.

Then a) your legal system is broken in favour of the prosecution and b) your lawyers take the piss.
Though driving within the speed limit means you'd never need to enter a broken system with piss takey lawyers.

[jimnyc]

Then a) your legal system is broken in favour of the prosecution and b) your lawyers take the piss.
Though driving within the speed limit means you'd never need to enter a broken system with piss takey lawyers.

True, true, but to an extent. The system does favor the prosecution and lawyers do make a bundle by taking advantage of that fact.

But concerning 'traps', it's not always that easy. They'll prey on a road where the limit is say 55mph, and then the road enters a district and the limit drops to lets say 35mph. They will setup shop about 100 yards past this point and make a bundle off of those who don't lower the speed in time. Even if you're in the midst of braking, if ticketed, you're basically screwed unless you have $$$.

The other traps are arguable. If you're on a straightaway for miles, and the limit is 45, I suppose it's easy to avoid a ticket in that manner. But in many of these cases they need to increase the limit, as 45 is just much too slow and they know it. But the law is the law until such time that the limit is changed, unfortunately.

[Noir]

it'd start with German licensing requirements. Then, each driver would be placed on a track and evaluated on their skill. Licenses would be graduated - D group allowed day-time travel below posted speed limits, no passengers; restricted to far right lane at all times (left lane from your point of view). C group - most folks would be in C group - General operation, with passengers, right-two most lanes on 3 lane roads. Passengers. B-group - General driving, +15 over speed limit, any lane. A group - Unlimited lane useage - even shoulder-passing when appropriate. No speed limit. Ever.

I find the rules a little odd, like the D group, no passengers, in the UK (and i assume its similar in the US) you must have an experienced driver with you in the car when you are learning to drive, why would you restrict that after the test?
And the no speed limit ever is just daft, i mean, understandable on large motorways etc, but saying its okay for a guy to go 50mph around a residential area because of his skill on a track however many years ago is not wise. Esspecially given the test is a measure of skill, not judgement.

[Thunderknuckles]

If you know you're at the end of the 'gray area' over the speed limit and then start going down hill and you don't apply the breaks then you're an idiot and deserve the ticket.
See this it where it gets funny. It all depends on what time of day, where you are at, and what cop you are dealing with. As Kat mentioned before there is the lawful speed limit and there is the "understood" speed limit. If the sign says 65, most folks will drive 70-75 and will not be ticketed. Probably because the cops are going 80+.
Now take that same speed limit and apply it to a designated speed trap and you will be ticketed for going 70-75 because its a "speed trap", aka "revenue generator".

[darin]

I find the rules a little odd, like the D group, no passengers, in the UK (and i assume its similar in the US) you must have an experienced driver with you in the car when you are learning to drive, why would you restrict that after the test?
And the no speed limit ever is just daft, i mean, understandable on large motorways etc, but saying its okay for a guy to go 50mph around a residential area because of his skill on a track however many years ago is not wise. Esspecially given the test is a measure of skill, not judgement.


Groups are based on expert analysis of driver skill. Driver skill as displayed on a closed course. Decision making. Things like that. :)

And yes - if a guy can do 50 in my neighborhood (some folks pass my street at 70+ - true story) with control? its fine.

For ALL speed - context dictates.

[Noir]

Groups are based on expert analysis of driver skill. Driver skill as displayed on a closed course. Decision making. Things like that. :)

And yes - if a guy can do 50 in my neighborhood (some folks pass my street at 70+ - true story) with control? its fine.

For ALL speed - context dictates.

Do you live in a residential area? Or off an open raid?

[Nell's Room]

If you know you're at the end of the 'gray area' over the speed limit and then start going down hill and you don't apply the breaks then you're an idiot and deserve the ticket.

And where do you think the speed camera will be? Conveniently located on that incline. Its deliberate targeting - revenue raising.

[Kathianne]

And where do you think the speed camera will be? Conveniently located on that incline. Its deliberate targeting - revenue raising.

I guess we'll have to assume that UK is somehow less determined to collect revenues. Why doesn't this surprise me?

[Noir]

And where do you think the speed camera will be? Conveniently located on that incline. Its deliberate targeting - revenue raising.

Okay, walk me threw this, you're on a road where the speed limit is 40mph. And you're traveling at 47mph, and then you see that you are approaching a downhill slope, what do you do?

[jimnyc]

Okay, walk me threw this, you're on a road where the speed limit is 40mph. And you're traveling at 47mph, and then you see that you are approaching a downhill slope, what do you do?

Floor the gas pedal so you get that cool feeling when your stomach drops out from under you! :lol:

[DragonStryk72]

Okay, walk me threw this, you're on a road where the speed limit is 40mph. And you're traveling at 47mph, and then you see that you are approaching a downhill slope, what do you do?

In Virginia? Um, you speed the fuck up so that the cars lining up behind you will stop cursing you out for driving so fucking slow.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

idk what the law is in America, but in the UK you can request that the camera used to capture your speed is put to a calibration test to ensure its accuracy, i don't see what other mistakes could occur.

Whats your plan for better drivers?

Your bolded, first step is to get the damn illegal immigrants off the road. They are lousy drivres, drive drunk like its going out of style and do not know even basic safety driving rules. Many think its legal to go whatever speed the motor will allow. The kill and injure thousands a year here. Most drive with no drivers license, never took a driving test ever anywhere and many never owned a car before coming here , make enough money to buy a car then just start driving immediately. Police would do better to concentrate on that rather than my going ten miles an hour over the speed limit! Money making traps most are and its got shat to do with safety concerns. -Tyr

[red state]

NOIR, you can have our speed traps, cameras illegal border invaders and president if you don't have a problem with injustice and loss of freedom....here in America, my pastor can still preach the Word of God, the sins HE warned about and how we, as a FREE people, are blessed enough to protect our family and enjoy the beauty of HIS creation. Other places, such as the UK, Canada, Australia have lost these blessing for the most part and have joined the weaker nations such as France, Itally and Greece in 'accepting' socialism, extreme tolerance and radical political correctness to the point that they (you) can't be classified as anything but a tyrannically led group of lemmings/sheep/cowards. Sadly, we are headed in the same direction and I hope we can make REAL change come Nov.

Good quote TYR (as usual). I know first hand how these border invaders drive...and drive drunk. I also know how many of them are child abusers and how areas (even rural areas) that have never had a drug problem or gangs now have these problems after these border invaders settle in the region. I also do NOT remember those pesky fire ants and armadillos until we started having the illegal immigrant problem....THEY are all pests and should be treated as such (not welcomed...as our president and the other DIMocrats do and always have).


[/B]

Your bolded, first step is to get the damn illegal immigrants off the road. They are lousy drivres, drive drunk like its going out of style and do not know even basic safety driving rules. Many think its legal to go whatever speed the motor will allow. The kill and injure thousands a year here. Most drive with no drivers license, never took a driving test ever anywhere and many never owned a car before coming here , make enough money to buy a car then just start driving immediately. Police would do better to concentrate on that rather than my going ten miles an hour over the speed limit! Money making traps most are and its got shat to do with safety concerns. -Tyr

[red state]

This, like the un-Constitutional health care TAX, is unfair and looks only for the middle class and wealthy to pay (and pay through the nose). It is no mistake that most of the traffic cameras are found in neighborhoods who are ABLE to pay the fines. I'm sure they are out there BUT I've yet to find one in a slum-type area. Same goes for the speed traps where you find signs go from 65 to 40 (with no prior warning) in an area where out of Staters or "working class" folks are going to work or to a shopping area. After all, these people can afford to pay and the folks in the slummy areas can not and SHOULD NOT. The health care is as equally unfair and is ONLY for control purposes. Folks already get FREE health care and it is not fair that EVERYONE is not required to pay the HEALTH TAX (largest tax in US History where muSLUMs, Amish, and even Illegal Border Invaders who are not "documented"...thereby undocumented in paying ANY tax other than sales tax). EVERYONE should be required to PAY their fair share and/or live with the burden of traffic cameras / Speed Traps. You'd be surprised to learn at how many folks, driving a geloppy, are stopped for a legitimate speeding violation and given a free ride when someone in a new car "with plenty of money to waste" are given a ticket (NO QUESTIONS ASKED). My nephew is a law enforcement officer for Memphis, TN and is disgusted with the policies of his town. He's a REAL cop who served his country in several tours in Iraq....unlike the politically correct and corrupt leadership he unfortunately has to follow. These Speed Traps are corrupt from the very core and, like the speed cameras, should be done away with!!!

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

This, like the un-Constitutional health care TAX, is unfair and looks only for the middle class and wealthy to pay (and pay through the nose). It is no mistake that most of the traffic cameras are found in neighborhoods who are ABLE to pay the fines. I'm sure they are out there BUT I've yet to find one in a slum-type area. Same goes for the speed traps where you find signs go from 65 to 40 (with no prior warning) in an area where out of Staters or "working class" folks are going to work or to a shopping area. After all, these people can afford to pay and the folks in the slummy areas can not and SHOULD NOT. The health care is as equally unfair and is ONLY for control purposes. Folks already get FREE health care and it is not fair that EVERYONE is not required to pay the HEALTH TAX (largest tax in US History where muSLUMs, Amish, and even Illegal Border Invaders who are not "documented"...thereby undocumented in paying ANY tax other than sales tax). EVERYONE should be required to PAY their fair share and/or live with the burden of traffic cameras / Speed Traps. You'd be surprised to learn at how many folks, driving a geloppy, are stopped for a legitimate speeding violation and given a free ride when someone in a new car "with plenty of money to waste" are given a ticket (NO QUESTIONS ASKED). My nephew is a law enforcement officer for Memphis, TN and is disgusted with the policies of his town. He's a REAL cop who served his country in several tours in Iraq....unlike the politically correct and corrupt leadership he unfortunately has to follow. These Speed Traps are corrupt from the very core and, like the speed cameras, should be done away with!!!

Roberts said , it is not the court's responsibility to protect the citizens from bad laws passed by Congress! How about IT IS THE COURT'S RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT THE CONSTITUTON! HE SEEMS TO HAVE CLEVERLY FORGOTTEN THAT PART,HUH? I mark him to be the damn traitor that he is. He knows better but chose to rule against the Constitution regardless. Has no integrity and for me that marks him as scum..-Tyr

[cadet]

But it has been a long, long time since most states announced it was against the law. Much like being behind someone, and flashing your lights to get them to move over to the slow lane.

If something is Declared Illegal, or Against the Law.
Best thing to do to stay out of trouble, avoid breaking the law, and not get a ticket?

Do what the laws say.
Not difficult to do.
And if you disagree with it. Either obey the laws, or get them changed.

I don't care if that's illegal. It's more dangerous to everyone if you drive slower than traffic, than over the speed limit. Besides, i'll honk and flash my lights whenever there's an idiot.

Oh, and it pisses me off to no end when people drive lower then the speed limit... i honked at a cop once for that. :rolleyes:

In my truck, i don't have tinted windows, that way at night i can turn on my inside lights and flip everyone off.

[ConHog]

I don't care if that's illegal. It's more dangerous to everyone if you drive slower than traffic, than over the speed limit. Besides, i'll honk and flash my lights whenever there's an idiot.

Oh, and it pisses me off to no end when people drive lower then the speed limit... i honked at a cop once for that. :rolleyes:

In my truck, i don't have tinted windows, that way at night i can turn on my inside lights and flip everyone off.

Yeah, that's not illegal, nor dangerous.:rolleyes:

[KitchenKitten99]

I don't know Jim, what if people were giving potential burglars a warning that police were around? More severe crime of course, but being a lookout is being a lookout.

I never flash my lights, I think it's funny to see people pulled over. :laugh: Even better if they get tasered and it makes the internet.

Someone getting tazed in real life isn't as funny as online. I had it happen to a guy in my cigar shop. This was a homeless guy (with lots of mental issues) who had been becoming a nuissance. He had already been served 'no trespass' orders from several other places around the town. When we finally did that as well, he disobeyed it and I promptly called the police. He resisted them and ended up trying to fight against them. They had to tazer him twice (we think he was on drugs this time).

I had seen it online, thought it was funny. In person, it is scary and while I didn't like the guy being tazed...I wanted to cry after seeing what happens in real life.

[ConHog]

Someone getting tazed in real life isn't as funny as online. I had it happen to a guy in my cigar shop. This was a homeless guy (with lots of mental issues) who had been becoming a nuissance. He had already been served 'no trespass' orders from several other places around the town. When we finally did that as well, he disobeyed it and I promptly called the police. He resisted them and ended up trying to fight against them. They had to tazer him twice (we think he was on drugs this time).

I had seen it online, thought it was funny. In person, it is scary and while I didn't like the guy being tazed...I wanted to cry after seeing what happens in real life.

I've been tazed. Wasn't funny to me, but everyone watching laughed. I laughed when it was my turn to watch others be tazed. Just the kinda guy I am I supposed.

What's really funny is the ones who scream like banshees. Gets me every time.