It wasn't that long ago [Archive] - Debate Policy

darin

06-26-2012, 06:55 AM

That's what happens when words like "honor" "loyalty" "trust" "integrity" "faith" and "discipline" no longer have any value or meaning in a society. Some would say that it is a minor side effect of socialism.

Couple socailism with our progressive parenting practices and we have a society who promotes only self-indulgent relationships with anything and anyone; the minute a relationships stops stroking the ego the relationship becomes 'oppressive' or 'abusive'.

CSM

06-26-2012, 06:57 AM

Nell's Room

06-26-2012, 10:50 PM

Why do Americans need to say the pledge every morning anyway?

Gaffer

06-26-2012, 10:58 PM

Why do Americans need to say the pledge every morning anyway?

It's an American thing, you wouldn't understand.

SassyLady

06-26-2012, 11:05 PM

Why do Americans need to say the pledge every morning anyway?

Why does anyone need to brush their teeth everyday? Because they want to keep their teeth healthy.

Saying the pledge is another reminder of our duty to our country.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

06-26-2012, 11:10 PM

Couple socailism with our progressive parenting practices and we have a society who promotes only self-indulgent relationships with anything and anyone; the minute a relationships stops stroking the ego the relationship becomes 'oppressive' or 'abusive'.
Liberals= socialists , they like to be stroked and to stroke. In fact stroking is a regular little hobby with them. Tell 'em to form a single line and they make a circle everytime!-:laugh2:--Tyr

By the way so do liberals in hiding, you know the guy that always finds a way to defend them while pretending to be against them.;)

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

06-26-2012, 11:15 PM

The pledge should be recited everyday, every grade for the simple reason that it teaches a thing called loyalty!
Any person incapable of being loyal to a greater cause than just their own self-interests is subhuman. Liberals hate patriots for that reason. They know exactly how shallow they are inside and hate their opposites.
One of the reasons that they insanely declare China to be our ally.-;)-Tyr

SassyLady

06-27-2012, 01:54 AM

I really don't understand why Nell has such a problem with American patriotism. How is she affected?

logroller

06-27-2012, 03:15 AM

Liberals= socialists , they like to be stroked and to stroke. In fact stroking is a regular little hobby with them. Tell 'em to form a single line and they make a circle everytime!-:laugh2:--Tyr

I'm a liberal and I'm not a socialist. I'd grant liberal = progressive, but not socialist. I do like stroking...but neither in a line nor circle. :slap:

Liberalism: (2) a political or social philosophy advocating the freedom of the individual, parliamentary systems of government, nonviolent modification of political, social, or economic institutions to assure unrestricted development in all spheres of human endeavor, and governmental guarantees of individual rights and civil liberties. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/liberalism

By that definition, the signers of the Constitution embraced liberalism.

Nell's Room

06-27-2012, 04:37 AM

Why does anyone need to brush their teeth everyday? Because they want to keep their teeth healthy.

Saying the pledge is another reminder of our duty to our country.

Why do Americans need to remind themselves of their duty to their country? Explain it to me, because I really don't understand why you guys have to talk about a flag every morning.

SassyLady

06-27-2012, 04:50 AM

Why do Americans need to remind themselves of their duty to their country? Explain it to me, because I really don't understand why you guys have to talk about a flag every morning.

I did explain .... look at previous posts. You haven't explained why it bothers you so much.

Nell's Room

06-27-2012, 04:53 AM

I did explain .... look at previous posts. You haven't explained why it bothers you so much.

Someone said it was an American thing. That tells me nothing. It doesn't bother me, but it does bother me that people want to force others to say the pledge, even if they don't want to. Its as bad as forcing people to sing the National Anthem. I don't even like our anthem and most Australians don't even know the second verse to Advance Australia Fair, because we don't see the point. We don't sing our anthem every day because we don't feel the need to.

You can be proud of your country, and patriotic, without having to sing a song and recite a pledge. It just sounds to me as if Americans have to remind themselves to be patriotic. That might not be what you think, but from where I am sitting, that is just what it sounds like. Its confusing.

SassyLady

06-27-2012, 04:59 AM

Someone said it was an American thing. That tells me nothing. It doesn't bother me, but it does bother me that people want to force others to say the pledge, even if they don't want to. Its as bad as forcing people to sing the National Anthem. I don't even like our anthem and most Australians don't even know the second verse to Advance Australia Fair, because we don't see the point. We don't sing our anthem every day because we don't feel the need to.

You can be proud of your country, and patriotic, without having to sing a song and recite a pledge. It just sounds to me as if Americans have to remind themselves to be patriotic. That might not be what you think, but from where I am sitting, that is just what it sounds like. Its confusing.

We force our kids to go to school even if they don't want to. It provides an environment where they can learn to be productive adults. Saying the pledge teaches them about patriotism.

We don't have to remind ourselves .... it is something those of us who are patriotic like to do to show our loyalty and commitment.

Why do people clap at a concert? Why do they have to remind the entertainer that they like the songs? After all, they are at the concert because they like the music, right? So, why bother clapping or cheering?

Kathianne

06-27-2012, 07:25 AM

We force our kids to go to school even if they don't want to. It provides an environment where they can learn to be productive adults. Saying the pledge teaches them about patriotism.

We don't have to remind ourselves .... it is something those of us who are patriotic like to do to show our loyalty and commitment.

Why do people clap at a concert? Why do they have to remind the entertainer that they like the songs? After all, they are at the concert because they like the music, right? So, why bother clapping or cheering?

Got that right! Kids aren't 'forced' to say the pledge, they can sit quietly. Some do, most don't. No one fools around during that time though.

jimnyc

06-27-2012, 08:31 AM

Someone said it was an American thing. That tells me nothing. It doesn't bother me, but it does bother me that people want to force others to say the pledge, even if they don't want to. Its as bad as forcing people to sing the National Anthem. I don't even like our anthem and most Australians don't even know the second verse to Advance Australia Fair, because we don't see the point. We don't sing our anthem every day because we don't feel the need to.

You can be proud of your country, and patriotic, without having to sing a song and recite a pledge. It just sounds to me as if Americans have to remind themselves to be patriotic. That might not be what you think, but from where I am sitting, that is just what it sounds like. Its confusing.

Nobody WANTS to force others and no on IS forced. Americans that do say the pledge WANT to. Same for our Anthem, no one is EVER forced to. In fact, in most places where it is sang, there are always some who just refuse to stand and participate.

You're just confused and jealous that such a huge country remains loud and proud about their Flag & Country. I'm truly sorry that it's confusing to you, but we love it!

tournesol

06-27-2012, 09:14 AM

One would think that one time should suffice when making a pledge.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

06-27-2012, 09:21 AM

One would think that one time should suffice when making a pledge.

School is for teaching kids. Young kids do not have the maturity(many adults don't either) to make a pledge once and keep it. In addition reciting the Pledge of Allegiance teaches responsibility, loyalty and unity! Which of those three do you care to object to the teaching of and participating in? I taught my daughter the Pledge of Allegiance before she started school. I have a small American flag in our living room.--Tyr

tournesol

06-27-2012, 09:25 AM

When you want kids to pledge something, teach them about it, when they reach maturity then they can make their pledge.

jimnyc

06-27-2012, 09:40 AM

One would think that one time should suffice when making a pledge.

I believe the opposite. If kids are taught about the Flag, what it represents and stands for, the COTUS and Declaration of Independence, along with the Pledge, they'll be better off in the long run. It's when people forget history, what we stand for & why we have our freedoms, why we sing the anthem and perform the pledge... Yep, many want to lessen that. Sad.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

06-27-2012, 09:45 AM

When you want kids to pledge something, teach them about it, when they reach maturity then they can make their pledge.

No, I asked directly about those three that I quoted to in my question. Which of those three do you think shouldnt be taught to young kids?
When they reach maturity they will make their own decisions based upon parental guidance and learning accumulated up to that point. Then they may choose to reject or keep certain things but as a child they first must gather vast amounts of information over many years . Nothing like making decisions with too little info to come up with nutty ideals and fall for bullshit. Socialsm comes to mind as a prime example of that IMHO.-Tyr

tournesol

06-27-2012, 09:46 AM

I believe the opposite. If kids are taught about the Flag, what it represents and stands for, the COTUS and Declaration of Independence, along with the Pledge, they'll be better off in the long run. It's when people forget history, what we stand for & why we have our freedoms, why we sing the anthem and perform the pledge... Yep, many want to lessen that. Sad.

You're absolutely right on the importance of history. Kids need to be taught all about it. But a pledge is a promise you make. Promises shouldn't be taken lightly. When you're making a promise, one time should suffice.

jimnyc

06-27-2012, 09:46 AM

One would think that one time should suffice when making a pledge.

When you want kids to pledge something, teach them about it, when they reach maturity then they can make their pledge.

Out of curiosity, are you American? Do you currently reside in America?

jimnyc

06-27-2012, 09:49 AM

You're absolutely right on the importance of history. Kids need to be taught all about it. But a pledge is a promise you make. Promises shouldn't be taken lightly. When you're making a promise, one time should suffice.

I don't think it's the 'promise' being repeated daily that is the importance. It's something to teach kids as they grow up to be proud of their country and their freedoms. Either way, a child is free to sit if they or their parents don't want them participating.

tournesol

06-27-2012, 09:51 AM

No, I asked directly about those three that I quoted to in my question. Which of those three do you think shouldnt be taught to young kids?
When they reach maturity they will make their own decisions based upon parental guidance and learning accumulated up to that point. Then they may choose to reject or keep certain things but as a child they first must gather vast amounts of information over many years . Nothing like making decisions with too little info to come up with nutty ideals and fall for bullshit. Socialsm comes to mind as a prime example of that IMHO.-Tyr

Teach kids all they need to be taught, but let them pledge one time, when they are mature enough to make that pledge with full conscience.

tournesol

06-27-2012, 09:56 AM

I don't think it's the 'promise' being repeated daily that is the importance. It's something to teach kids as they grow up to be proud of their country and their freedoms. Either way, a child is free to sit if they or their parents don't want them participating.

Perhaps, but repeating a pledge every day makes that pledge subject to inflation of it's meaning. Plus, and I admit that that's a personal opinion, it does give the wrong message about promises we make.

jimnyc

06-27-2012, 09:56 AM

The Pledge of Allegiance is recited by school children of all religious backgrounds, across America on a daily basis. Daily recitation is done in order to honor the nation one is a part of every morning. However, the recitation is not compulsory, which means no punitive action will be taken against children who do not recite the pledge. It is only expected that those who abstain from reciting the pledge should be seated quietly, while the pledge is being said, thereby allowing the others to recite the Pledge. Besides schools, the pledge of allegiance is also recited during the opening of Congressional sessions and also in most local level Government meetings.

Unfortunately, most of those reciting the Pledge today are saying it blinding as a ritual, where children and adults alike, recite the words without actually understanding the meaning. Reciting the Pledge is not a compulsion, but a mark of patriotism to the country. It is an action that symbolizes one's loyalty to the United States of America and the feeling that as an American, one is proud to be a part of this blessed country. Moreover, it is a proclamation stating that all Americans are unified, standing together as one nation and working together for the benefit of the country as a whole. The reason the pledge of allegiance is asked to be recited on a daily basis in schools, is because when a child recites the pledge everyday, he or she may be directed into thinking more deeply about its meaning and significance.

The Pledge of Allegiance is considered to be a platform where kids are given the opportunity to think about their roles as citizens in the country. Reciting the pledge stirs up curiosity regarding their country, thereby inculcating a feeling of patriotism in the long run. Of course, patriotism cannot be forced upon, which is why the recitation is not compulsory. Teachers are to explain the meaning of the pledge to the children in simple language, so that they understand what they are actually reciting every morning. It is important to prevent it from becoming another part of the humdrum of life.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/why-is-the-pledge-of-allegiance-important.html

tournesol

06-27-2012, 10:03 AM

From the article you cite:

Unfortunately, most of those reciting the Pledge today are saying it blinding as a ritual, where children and adults alike, recite the words without actually understanding the meaning.

That illustrates my point well.

jimnyc

06-27-2012, 10:05 AM

From the article you cite:

That illustrates my point well.

Only the point that children should be taught more about the Pledge, why there's a pledge, the Flag and the rest I mentioned. I agree wholeheartedly that they shouldn't be doing so blindly, they should be doing it in addition to their education and the history of the USA.

tournesol

06-27-2012, 10:10 AM

Out of curiosity, are you American? Do you currently reside in America?

Nope, I'm not American, nor do I live in the US. I'm just someone being interested in the US.

Kathianne

06-27-2012, 10:16 AM

Only the point that children should be taught more about the Pledge, why there's a pledge, the Flag and the rest I mentioned. I agree wholeheartedly that they shouldn't be doing so blindly, they should be doing it in addition to their education and the history of the USA.

Seems to me that just about every 4th grader I've known, including myself, had to rewrite the Pledge in our own words. Very same with the Preamble.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

06-27-2012, 10:18 AM

From the article you cite:

That illustrates my point well.

Thats the socialist education department agenda in action. When we were taught the pledge we were taught all about it, ALL ABOUT IT! I've found the Dem/Lib agenda in America to be greatly anti-patriotic and overwhelmingly proleftist. Our education system is currentkly and has been controlled by libs/dems/leftists for many decades. Hell, they are graduating kids from high school now with what was just barely second grade reading levels in the 60's!-TZ

gabosaurus

06-27-2012, 11:07 AM

Why do Americans need to remind themselves of their duty to their country? Explain it to me, because I really don't understand why you guys have to talk about a flag every morning.

Same reason that Aussie kids grow up singing about Kookaburra sitting in an old gum tree. It's an American tradition.
And it gives conservative Republicans something to bitch about whenever a Democrat gets in the White House. :rolleyes:

tournesol

06-27-2012, 11:49 AM

Same reason that Aussie kids grow up singing about Kookaburra sitting in an old gum tree. It's an American tradition.

I must admit, that when I first heard about the pledge I felt repulsed. But that was a cultural driven reaction of me, as all displays of nationalism are taboo in Europe (apart from sports events of course). But from the American point of view it's understandable. They are an immigrant nation with many different ethnic backgrounds. You need to have a way to instill a sense of unity in such a disparate demography.

And it gives conservative Republicans something to bitch about whenever a Democrat gets in the White House. :rolleyes:

LOL

ConHog

06-27-2012, 11:52 AM

tournesol

06-27-2012, 01:16 PM

Absolutely NO ONE is forced to say the pledge. A person can stand quietly and say nothing if they so choose.

I understand that you can even stay seated if you so wish...

ConHog

06-27-2012, 01:21 PM

I understand that you can even stay seated if you so wish...

we only mandate the Pledge at our school in elementary school, and no sitting isn't an option. Starting in Junior High we let the students in each home room vote. it's a good exercise in learning the privilege of voting, and I'm happy to say around 80% of classes over the last few years still vote to say the pledge every morning. I've never heard any complaints either way about students not standing or being forced to stand to be honest.

Kathianne

06-27-2012, 02:07 PM

we only mandate the Pledge at our school in elementary school, and no sitting isn't an option. Starting in Junior High we let the students in each home room vote. it's a good exercise in learning the privilege of voting, and I'm happy to say around 80% of classes over the last few years still vote to say the pledge every morning. I've never heard any complaints either way about students not standing or being forced to stand to be honest.

If the parents tell their 1st grader to remain sitting, your school could be in a heap of trouble. Forcing compliance has been been prohibited by school law for years:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette

Now the forcing to stand thing?

http://aclu-or.org/blog/students-not-required-participate-pledge-allegiance

Even private and parochial schools around here have allowed those who wish to remain seated to do so, for many years. What won't be tolerated though are disruptions.

ConHog

06-27-2012, 02:14 PM

If the parents tell their 1st grader to remain sitting, your school could be in a heap of trouble. Forcing compliance has been been prohibited by school law for years:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette

Now the forcing to stand thing?

http://aclu-or.org/blog/students-not-required-participate-pledge-allegiance

Even private and parochial schools around here have allowed those who wish to remain seated to do so, for many years. What won't be tolerated though are disruptions.

Again, the advantages of a small town. We just don't hear complaints like that. Heck, we even have prayer during classes happening sometimes, and biology teachers teaching creation. Doesn't mean we can't get in trouble for it, just that we haven't yet.

Kathianne

06-27-2012, 02:21 PM

Again, the advantages of a small town. We just don't hear complaints like that. Heck, we even have prayer during classes happening sometimes, and biology teachers teaching creation. Doesn't mean we can't get in trouble for it, just that we haven't yet.

I wouldn't call that an advantage.

gabosaurus

06-27-2012, 02:28 PM

You should go to an elementary school in East Los Angeles. The kids are 99 percent Latino. Some are legal, some are not. But they all get up and say the Pledge every morning. In English. For some, it's the first English words they are taught.

red states rule

06-27-2012, 03:28 PM

That this photo depicted 99% of the classrooms around the country. Now it's on the extinction list, as we don't want to offend... offend who?

http://i50.tinypic.com/5l3rdf.jpg

Now the teachers have the kids sing songs in tribute to Obama

http://youtu.be/PJFC1qFCgyA

Noir

06-27-2012, 07:47 PM

'We are all free, now repeat after me...' mildly ironic, i'd of thought.

Anyways I can't think of a reason to intentionally get rid of it (as they say 'let the whores have their trinkets'), though i can also see no particular reason to fight to keep it if it fades away, which i'm guessing it will/is.

aboutime

06-27-2012, 09:29 PM

Why do Americans need to say the pledge every morning anyway?

As someone else said to you. You wouldn't, and probably won't understand.

We don't need to say the pledge every morning as you suggest. But most all of us want to do it because that's what citizens who appreciate freedom, liberty, and rights that Nobody can take away do to show their Honor, Integrity, and Faith in something NO OTHER NATION ON EARTH has.

Would you like to discuss what THAT IS?

Noir

06-27-2012, 10:00 PM

As someone else said to you. You wouldn't, and probably won't understand.

We don't need to say the pledge every morning as you suggest. But most all of us want to do it because that's what citizens who appreciate freedom, liberty, and rights that Nobody can take away do to show their Honor, Integrity, and Faith in something NO OTHER NATION ON EARTH has.

Would you like to discuss what THAT IS?

Rights that nobody can take away? Thats a very bold statement, and a wrong one.

Nell's Room

06-27-2012, 10:39 PM

Nobody WANTS to force others and no on IS forced. Americans that do say the pledge WANT to. Same for our Anthem, no one is EVER forced to. In fact, in most places where it is sang, there are always some who just refuse to stand and participate.

You're just confused and jealous that such a huge country remains loud and proud about their Flag & Country. I'm truly sorry that it's confusing to you, but we love it!

I remember a news story about Obama standing for the anthem, but he didn't place his hand over his heart like everyone else, and he was savaged for this. Why is it that when someone stands for the anthem, but doesn't cover their heart, they get attacked and labeled unpatriotic?

logroller

06-27-2012, 11:07 PM

ConHog

06-27-2012, 11:11 PM

Because he was born in Kenya?

His mom was underage when he was born to, that makes a difference in how American he is.

All a big hoax anyway, the lamestream media knows he had his fingers crossed when he recited the anthem, they just won't tell the truth.

jimnyc

06-28-2012, 06:53 AM

I remember a news story about Obama standing for the anthem, but he didn't place his hand over his heart like everyone else, and he was savaged for this. Why is it that when someone stands for the anthem, but doesn't cover their heart, they get attacked and labeled unpatriotic?

We expect a little more patriotism from our elected officials, admittedly. Not covering your heart, wearing a hat and/or sitting down, shows that you don't have respect for the Flag and our great nation. If you can't respect what our Flag stands for, and what our nation stands for, people won't be thrilled about you being an elected official representing our country.

taft2012

06-28-2012, 07:02 AM

Saying the pledge is another reminder of our duty to our country.

I don't need the pledge to remind me of that.

My paycheck deductions serve that purpose quite effectively.

aboutime

06-28-2012, 04:31 PM

Why do Americans need to remind themselves of their duty to their country? Explain it to me, because I really don't understand why you guys have to talk about a flag every morning.

Where do you live? If you do not live here in the U.S.A. there is no reason for anyone to have a need to explain anything about American traditions to you.
Much like I, or anyone else who worships any religious beliefs have no responsibility to make excuses, or explain why we have faith, or worship any way we want.
That is one of the principles...freedom of Religion, combined with freedom of speech that makes Americans feel Good, and even Happy about being Thankful to live in a nation where we PROUDLY pledge to our flag.
If that bothers you, or insults you in any way. Oh well. Or, too bad.
We who say such a pledge, and teach our children to appreciate, honor, and show their pride DO NOT NEED TO TELL YOU anything more.

Noir

06-28-2012, 06:12 PM

Where do you live? If you do not live here in the U.S.A. there is no reason for anyone to have a need to explain anything about American traditions to you.
Much like I, or anyone else who worships any religious beliefs have no responsibility to make excuses, or explain why we have faith, or worship any way we want.
That is one of the principles...freedom of Religion, combined with freedom of speech that makes Americans feel Good, and even Happy about being Thankful to live in a nation where we PROUDLY pledge to our flag.
If that bothers you, or insults you in any way. Oh well. Or, too bad.
We who say such a pledge, and teach our children to appreciate, honor, and show their pride DO NOT NEED TO TELL YOU anything more.

That's a very long post to say you're going to'say nothing' you should of just, er, said nothing ^,^

ConHog

06-28-2012, 06:14 PM

That's a very long post to say you're going to'say nothing' you should of just, er, said nothing ^,^

stick it up your liberal azz

Noir

06-28-2012, 06:22 PM

stick it up your liberal azz

I'll have you know my azz is fiercely conservative when it is notioned that things be stuck up it!

jimnyc

06-28-2012, 06:23 PM

stick it up your liberal azz

Dude, we get it. Your jabs such as this are as transparent as scotch tape. If you don't like how Tyr or AT interact with others, then ignore them. But your lame mimicking like this has been noticed many times and isn't much better than those that outright flame.

ConHog

06-28-2012, 06:26 PM

Dude, we get it. Your jabs such as this are as transparent as scotch tape. If you don't like how Tyr or AT interact with others, then ignore them. But your lame mimicking like this has been noticed many times and isn't much better than those that outright flame.

who the hell is AT? As for Tyr if I have something to say about him, I'll say it.

If on the other hand I want to take a swipe at Noir the liberal, I will do so. Within the rules of course.

Once again, you see what you want to see.

jimnyc

06-28-2012, 06:33 PM

who the hell is AT? As for Tyr if I have something to say about him, I'll say it.

If on the other hand I want to take a swipe at Noir the liberal, I will do so. Within the rules of course.

Once again, you see what you want to see.

All I'm saying is, I see you ALL OVER making little comments to FJ, LOG and others, and it's obvious they're little jabs at those you take issue with. Each one by itself being harmless. Annoying when we have to see it in every other thread. You get angry because Tyr comments on you while he has you on ignore, and then you comment about him and aboutime in your comments to others. You guys need to learn how to ignore, or STFU with the baby games around the board.

ConHog

06-28-2012, 06:39 PM

All I'm saying is, I see you ALL OVER making little comments to FJ, LOG and others, and it's obvious they're little jabs at those you take issue with. Each one by itself being harmless. Annoying when we have to see it in every other thread. You get angry because Tyr comments on you while he has you on ignore, and then you comment about him and aboutime in your comments to others. You guys need to learn how to ignore, or STFU with the baby games around the board.

I am so not angry at Tyr. He had nothing to do with my post. As I stated. The angry one around here is you and so you've been nitpicking my every post lately. Dude we get it, Jim mad. I'm sorry, but that doesn't change what my posts are about.

jimnyc

06-28-2012, 06:47 PM

I am so not angry at Tyr. He had nothing to do with my post. As I stated. The angry one around here is you and so you've been nitpicking my every post lately. Dude we get it, Jim mad. I'm sorry, but that doesn't change what my posts are about.

Whatever, grow up dude. I'm not the only one tiring with the back and forth in every other thread. Others are guilty, but all I've seen thus far today is you doing so. Then you'll whine if someone does the same in return.

ConHog

06-28-2012, 07:08 PM

Whatever, grow up dude. I'm not the only one tiring with the back and forth in every other thread. Others are guilty, but all I've seen thus far today is you doing so. Then you'll whine if someone does the same in return.

Bullshit , you're blind as a fucking bat if that is true. But nonetheless, read what I wrote in the torture thread about 5 minutes ago.

cadet

06-28-2012, 07:27 PM

That this photo depicted 99% of the classrooms around the country. Now it's on the extinction list, as we don't want to offend... offend who?

http://i50.tinypic.com/5l3rdf.jpg

3545

Noir

06-28-2012, 08:51 PM

3545

And the solider should be glad that child is exercising the free will he fought for and not just doing something because he feels he has to.

Nell's Room

06-29-2012, 02:40 AM

3545

It is wrong to make a person feel guilty for not standing.

Kathianne

06-29-2012, 03:31 AM

It is wrong to make a person feel guilty for not standing.

Doesn't happen. However regarding the cartoon, point made.

jimnyc

06-29-2012, 05:36 AM

It is wrong to make a person feel guilty for not standing.

Much to the dismay of our foreign members - US citizens WANT to stand, and those choosing to sit are in a VERY rare minority. But it still remains their right to do so. But I'm still happy that 99.99% of the nation is proud to stand and salute our colors while singing the anthem or making the pledge! :salute:

Noir

06-29-2012, 06:45 AM

Much to the dismay of our foreign members - US citizens WANT to stand, and those choosing to sit are in a VERY rare minority. But it still remains their right to do so. But I'm still happy that 99.99% of the nation is proud to stand and salute our colors while singing the anthem or making the pledge! :salute:

Why would that bring about dismay? I wouldn't care if every American wanted to stand, aslong as that us what they wanted, and not what they felt they had to do.

jimnyc

06-29-2012, 06:51 AM

Why would that bring about dismay? I wouldn't care if every American wanted to stand, aslong as that us what they wanted, and not what they felt they had to do.

Some take issue with Americans doing this day after day, and why we sing the anthem so often. That a pledge only need to be made once... blah, blah, blah. Maybe not you as much, but a couple of others (Nell's room and Tournesol) have shown their dismay for Americans just doing this all the time.

cadet

06-29-2012, 10:10 AM

It is wrong to make a person feel guilty for not standing.

It is WRONG????? It's wrong to say hooray for our country? It's wrong to show people respect? In no way shape or form have i ever seen teaching a kid honor wrong, even with guilt. It is never wrong to make someone feel guilty for being shitty. In fact, if I could, i'd make every disrespectful, dishonoring, moochers (99%ers), and everyone who thinks it's ok to bash war heros for standing up for their rights to bash them feel guilty for dishonoring the american way of life.

Just cause you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD. Have some morals.

aboutime

06-29-2012, 01:16 PM

Some take issue with Americans doing this day after day, and why we sing the anthem so often. That a pledge only need to be made once... blah, blah, blah. Maybe not you as much, but a couple of others (Nell's room and Tournesol) have shown their dismay for Americans just doing this all the time.

jimnyc. And Cadet.

There is no reason for any of us, as Americans to have any reason, or need to explain WHY we are so proud to be Americans to anyone who isn't an American.

That's what this thread has become in my opinion.
There is never any need to apologize...as Obama always does, for being American, or for following American traditions of Honor, Loyalty, Respect, and Pride in our Flag, the Pledge, and Fellow Americans who ARE NOT AFRAID to show how patriotic they were taught to be, or how patriotic they are today.

We do not need to explain, make excuses, or attempt to reason with anyone who DOES NOT have the same RIGHTS, LIBERTIES, and FREEDOMS we celebrate every day with a Pledge, or while singing our National Anthem.

So. To those...and you know who you are, who are questioning Our dedication to a Flag, and a Pledge.

We feel sorry for you because YOU do not have what we have. And you just can't handle it. Understand now Nell's Room?

Little-Acorn

06-29-2012, 01:28 PM

Why do Americans need to remind themselves of their duty to their country? Explain it to me, because I really don't understand why you guys have to talk about a flag every morning.

That's right. You really don't understand.

logroller

06-29-2012, 02:23 PM

FWIW, out of respect, I stand even when a foreign anthem is played. It cracks me up when people think pledging allegiance is somehow binding; that because I believe in the concepts of justice, liberty and yielding to the supremacy of God, and these concepts being provided for by the USA and our republican form of gov't, it's tantamount to being a mindless drone of America government. Quite the contrary; its meant to remind Us of why We have gov't, what gov't does for Us and NOT what We do for gov't. That JFK had it all wrong.

Noir

06-29-2012, 03:26 PM