Good grief another trillion dollar give away!

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Another proposed mega give away! When does it all stop? Who foots the bill?
How about giving a trillion dollars directly in tax relief to we that arent sucking the government tit!!??
That would be far more beneficial to the economy. This way is madness..
Already over a million have applied for this Student Loan Debt Relief freebie!--Tyr




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Choose reason:Commercial/spamOffensiveProfaneHate speechIllegalclose Support the Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012
By Robert Applebaum (Contact)

To be delivered to: Rep. John Kline (MN-2), The United States House of Representatives, The United States Senate, and President Barack Obama

Total outstanding student loan debt in America is expected to exceed $1 TRILLION this year. Millions of hardworking, taxpaying, educated Americans are being crushed under the weight of their educational debts, while the economy continues to sputter. Support a REAL economic stimulus and jobs plan. Support the Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012 (H.R. 4170).
Since 1980, average tuition for a 4-year college education has increased an astounding 827%. Since 1999, average student loan debt has increased by a shameful 511%.

In 2010, total outstanding student loan debt exceeded total outstanding credit card debt in America for the first time ever. In 2012, total outstanding student loan debt is expected to exceed $1 Trillion.

In short, student loan debt has become the latest financial crisis in America and, if we do absolutely nothing, the entire economy will eventually come crashing down again, just as it did when the housing bubble popped. Reasonable minds can disagree as to the solutions, they cannot, however, disagree on the existence of this ever-growing crisis, as well as the unsustainable course we're on towards financial oblivion.

As a result of more than 30 years of treating higher education as an individual commodity, rather than a public good and an investment in our collective future, those buried under the weight of their student loan debt are not buying homes or cars, not starting businesses or families, and they're not investing, inventing, innovating or otherwise engaged in any of the economically stimulative activities that we need all Americans to be engaged in if we're ever to dig ourselves out of the giant hole created by the greed of those at the very top.

Now for the good news: there's finally hope on the horizon! Representative Hansen Clarke of Michigan has just introduced H.R. 4170, the Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012, in the House of Representatives - legislation designed to lend a helping hand to those struggling under massive amounts of student loan debt.

For a brief summary of H.R. 4170's main provisions, please copy & paste this URL into your browser: http://tinyurl.com/7akydbk

To read the full version of the actual bill itself, please go here: http://tinyurl.com/6txure8

To read answers to some of the most frequently asked questions about the Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012, please go here: http://tinyurl.com/8xh4csd

Student loan debt has an undeniable and significant suppressive effect on economic growth. The Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012 directly addresses this enormous boot on the neck of the middle class and represents a glimmer of hope for millions of Americans who, with each passing day, find that the American Dream is more and more out of reach.

Therefore, we, the undersigned, respectfully request that Congress bring H.R. 4170, the Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012, up for consideration and commit to holding a straight, up-or-down vote on it this year. Thereafter, we, the undersigned, respectfully request that President Obama sign this legislation into law.

[ConHog]

I hate the whole student loan program. Pell grants to.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I hate the whole student loan program. Pell grants to.

Finally we agree on something!--Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Expecting something for nothing is what children do so well. Free cake, candy and ice cream!
It's different in the adult world but some in government want it to be child time again!

Here are four suggestions about what American grads need to start doing:

1. stop drinking overpriced coffee from Starbucks.
2. quit buying the latest XBox or P53 games and pay the extra towards their loans.
3. get off their hind quarters and start working any job they can get while they beat the pavement on evenings and weekends looking for their dream job.
4. quit looking for handouts, quit whining, and DEAL WITH IT THEMSELVES!

FEEL FREE TO ADD ANY THAT I MAY HAVE MISSED.--Tyr

[fj1200]

Another proposed mega give away!

It's not worth getting worked up over something that is going nowhere. But it's typical lib law which provides "relief" now but does nothing to change the underlying program and only encourages more debt for the expected relief later.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

It's not worth getting worked up over something that is going nowhere. But it's typical lib law which provides "relief" now but does nothing to change the underlying program and only encourages more debt for the expected relief later.

It is an attempt at more vote buying by obama. Which is typical lib lack of honor. Just when did it becomes the President's job and duty NOT to uphold the Rule of Law and our Constitution? Obama deliberately breaks both with arrogance and forethought. Charles Krauthammer has called some of obama's recent actions(no less than) LAWLESSNESS! I'm not a huge fan of his but he makes excellent points in defending that charge! Myself, I see others reasoning that, dont worry it'll will get overturned by SCOTUS eventually. That does not matter to the point that I'm trying to make about obama. That is that he is using the authority and power of the office of the Presidency in a careless and contemptible manner with complete disregard for the Rule of Law and the fact that he is charged by his oath of office to UPHOLD the Constitution not attack or test it constantly.-Tyr

[ConHog]

It is an attempt at more vote buying by obama. Which is typical lib lack of honor. Just when did it becomes the President's job and duty NOT to uphold the Rule of Law and our Constitution? Obama deliberately breaks both with arrogance and forethought. Charles Krauthammer has called some of obama's recent actions(no less than) LAWLESSNESS! I'm not a huge fan of his but he makes excellent points in defending that charge! Myself, I see others reasoning that, dont worry it'll will get overturned by SCOTUS eventually. That does not matter to the point that I'm trying to make about obama. That is that he is using the authority and power of the office of the Presidency in a careless and contemptible manner with complete disregard for the Rule of Law and the fact that he is charged by his oath of office to UPHOLD the Constitution not attack or test it constantly.-Tyr

How ridiculous , and on so many levels.

ALL politicians say and do things to try to get votes. Thats the name of the game. Obama certainly is not a traitor nor a bad potus for doing so.

Neither is he a traitor for having a different interpretation of the COTUS than you.

Disagreeing with his vision is one thing being a lunatic who calls him a traitor is another.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

How ridiculous , and on so many levels.

ALL politicians say and do things to try to get votes. Thats the name of the game. Obama certainly is not a traitor nor a bad potus for doing so.

Neither is he a traitor for having a different interpretation of the COTUS than you.

Disagreeing with his vision is one thing being a lunatic who calls him a traitor is another.


Are you Conservative , Republican, Independent, Centrist, Dem, Lib, Marxist , Socialist, Communist, or what?
I'll am a proud far righwing Conservative!
I ask this because it certainly seems to me that you are confused or just playing a popularity game here because you defend obama on one thread , attack him on another depending entirely on which member you decide to agree with or court at the moment! In my opinion doing that shows a great lack of principle and honor or even confusion.
I've seen here in reading your posts here that you have agreed (IN PRINCIPLE)at one time or another with every one of those that I listed above.
In addition, last night I posted a link that supports my view that the student loan debt forgiveness proposal was a trillion dollar freebie this country doesnt need and can not afford. You basicly replied that you thought student loan program shouldnt even exist! I decided to test my little theory about why you even reply to my posts . I replied, "Finally we agree", knowing it would stop you cold because you just wanted to start more crap. It did, you abandoned that thread and continued on in the others until I retired for the night. NO RULE HERE AGAINST YOU DOING THAT AND I'M NOT COMPLAINING , I am pointing out yet again that you told me to go away, you have cursed and attacked me in Reps since shortly after I first came here. Guess what jethro. I continue to laugh at both your massive insecurity and your ignorance!
Now , I shall grant your wish and give you free rein to spout off you bull in reply to my posts unanswered because after I finish typing this I will take the advice given to me by no less than admin and 7 respected posters here and place you on ignore.
Before I do that I'll say this. I've been around a lot of military people, my family has military officers in it past and present. I was told that you represent yourself as retired military! An officer no less , if I recall correctly. To that I say bullshit, I do not believe it because nothing about how you conduct yourself at this forum would validate that. And I do mean NOTHING!
GO AHEAD ,CRY THAT THIS POST IS A FLAME. IT IS SURELY THAT. IT WILL BE MY LAST FLAME ON YOU BECAUSE ON IGNORE YOU GO AND WILL NEVER COME OFF. I'M JUST THAT TIRED OF YOUR SHIT.

SORRY JIM, I TRULY AM BUT I HAD TO SAY MY PEACE AND CAN SEE NO OTHER WAY TO DEAL WITH THIS LITTLE DEMANDING GADFLY. NO MORE FLAMES FROM ME ON HIM AND I JUST DONT HAVE THE TIME OR INCLINATION TO DEAL WITH SUCH A PERSON. HE CAN HAVE FREE REIN TO CASTIGATE ME AT HIS INSECURE LEISURE WITHOUT FEAR OF MY COUNTERING REPLY! -TYR

[ConHog]

Are you Conservative , Republican, Independent, Centrist, Dem, Lib, Marxist , Socialist, Communist, or what?
I'll am a proud far righwing Conservative!
I ask this because it certainly seems to me that you are confused or just playing a popularity game here because you defend obama on one thread , attack him on another depending entirely on which member you decide to agree with or court at the moment! In my opinion doing that shows a great lack of principle and honor or even confusion.
I've seen here in reading your posts here that you have agreed (IN PRINCIPLE)at one time or another with every one of those that I listed above.
In addition, last night I posted a link that supports my view that the student loan debt forgiveness proposal was a trillion dollar freebie this country doesnt need and can not afford. You basicly replied that you thought student loan program shouldnt even exist! I decided to test my little theory about why you even reply to my posts . I replied, "Finally we agree", knowing it would stop you cold because you just wanted to start more crap. It did, you abandoned that thread and continued on in the others until I retired for the night. NO RULE HERE AGAINST YOU DOING THAT AND I'M NOT COMPLAINING , I am pointing out yet again that you told me to go away, you have cursed and attacked me in Reps since shortly after I first came here. Guess what jethro. I continue to laugh at both your massive insecurity and your ignorance!
Now , I shall grant your wish and give you free rein to spout off you bull in reply to my posts unanswered because after I finish typing this I will take the advice given to me by no less than admin and 7 respected posters here and place you on ignore.
Before I do that I'll say this. I've been around a lot of military people, my family has military officers in it past and present. I was told that you represent yourself as retired military! An officer no less , if I recall correctly. To that I say bullshit, I do not believe it because nothing about how you conduct yourself at this forum would validate that. And I do mean NOTHING!
GO AHEAD ,CRY THAT THIS POST IS A FLAME. IT IS SURELY THAT. IT WILL BE MY LAST FLAME ON YOU BECAUSE ON IGNORE YOU GO AND WILL NEVER COME OFF. I'M JUST THAT TIRED OF YOUR SHIT.

SORRY JIM, I TRULY AM BUT I HAD TO SAY MY PEACE AND CAN SEE NO OTHER WAY TO DEAL WITH THIS LITTLE DEMANDING GADFLY. NO MORE FLAMES FROM ME ON HIM AND I JUST DONT HAVE THE TIME OR INCLINATION TO DEAL WITH SUCH A PERSON. HE CAN HAVE FREE REIN TO CASTIGATE ME AT HIS INSECURE LEISURE WITHOUT FEAR OF MY COUNTERING REPLY! -TYR

Im a moderate conservative. I do not agree with most of what obama does but recognize that he is not a traitor for having different ideas. I akso recognize that sometimes i have to admit he does have the plain power to do what he proposes.

Putting me on ignore probably woukd be your best option because clearly you realize that you cant keep up with me in a real debate and that if all you continue to bring at me is flame after flame that eventually jim will get tired if seeing that

As fir your continued stupid remarks about my military srvice. What does that even have ro do with the subject? Nothing of course just you taking further pot shots as you continue to avoid real debate all the while screaming that im the one with no honor.

Put me on ignore tyr. Admit your defeat to the entire board.

[Kathianne]

Im a moderate conservative. I do not agree with most of what obama does but recognize that he is not a traitor for having different ideas. I akso recognize that sometimes i have to admit he does have the plain power to do what he proposes.

Putting me on ignore probably woukd be your best option because clearly you realize that you cant keep up with me in a real debate and that if all you continue to bring at me is flame after flame that eventually jim will get tired if seeing that

As fir your continued stupid remarks about my military srvice. What does that even have ro do with the subject? Nothing of course just you taking further pot shots as you continue to avoid real debate all the while screaming that im the one with no honor.

Put me on ignore tyr. Admit your defeat to the entire board.

Putting on my CH hat to CH:

Unnecessary flame to member following owner's advice. Really shouldn't do that.

[ConHog]

Putting on my CH hat to CH:

Unnecessary flame to member following owner's advice. Really shouldn't do that.

Hmmm typical kath only calling out one person. Totally ignoring the other.

Illgive your advisement its due concern

[Shadow]

Really Kathianne...ConHog's passive aggressive trolling should always just be ignored...because that is 'just the way he is'. :rolleyes:

[jimnyc]

Before I do that I'll say this. I've been around a lot of military people, my family has military officers in it past and present. I was told that you represent yourself as retired military! An officer no less , if I recall correctly. To that I say bullshit, I do not believe it because nothing about how you conduct yourself at this forum would validate that. And I do mean NOTHING!

If you guys want to hate on one another it's none of my business, so long as it doesn't drag the board down with it. But I will ask that we try and refrain from belittling another persons military service. How one posts here shouldn't reflect on how they served our country.

[fj1200]

It is an attempt at more vote buying by obama.

I didn't see his name on the proposed bill.

[Gaffer]

I didn't see his name on the proposed bill.

It's not a proposed bill. It's an executive order saying he is not going to enforce laws on the books. And his name is on that.

[fj1200]

??? Aren't we talking about the Student Loan Forgiveness Act?

[Gaffer]

??? Aren't we talking about the Student Loan Forgiveness Act?

OOps my bad. I was thinking about the amnesty shit.

Never mind.

[ConHog]

It's not a proposed bill. It's an executive order saying he is not going to enforce laws on the books. And his name is on that.

Youre mixing up topics gaffer. The potus cant sign an excutive order to make a treaty law.

Oh also since congress cant pass a law that takes away our right to bear arms and a treaty is in fact law congress cant pass such a treaty either.

Noone is going to take away your guns

[DragonStryk72]

I hate the whole student loan program. Pell grants to.

The bigger problem of the student loan programs is that it severely increased the demand for college, but without increasing the supply of college, so guess what happened? Currently, the semester cost of a harvard education is $52,652, but in 1980 it was only $5,800. Apparently, blindly handing out tons of money increases inflation, who knew?.... Oh, right. Economists.

Overall, the problem is that we're fighting the wrong recession. Democrats believe this is a supply-side recession, wherein infrastructure spending can help alleviate the problem, such as back during Regean's term as POTUS. The Republicans, OTOH, believe it's a balance sheet recession, and so they're calling for massive cuts to get the debt down. Unfortunately for both of them, it's basically both.

We've been running up the bill for 30 years, and then at the same, we have massive consumer debt plaguing the system as well. While cuts will help, and we do have to get the numbers down a ways on that count, we do need a limited amount of infrastructure spending to help stabilize jobs in construction of roads, bridges, and tunnels. Infrastructure does not mean mindlessly increasing the number of federal jobs, btw, but specifically increasing the infrastructure that aids businesses and consumers get about more efficiently, increasing the flow of business.

[ConHog]

The bigger problem of the student loan programs is that it severely increased the demand for college, but without increasing the supply of college, so guess what happened? Currently, the semester cost of a harvard education is $52,652, but in 1980 it was only $5,800. Apparently, blindly handing out tons of money increases inflation, who knew?.... Oh, right. Economists.

Overall, the problem is that we're fighting the wrong recession. Democrats believe this is a supply-side recession, wherein infrastructure spending can help alleviate the problem, such as back during Regean's term as POTUS. The Republicans, OTOH, believe it's a balance sheet recession, and so they're calling for massive cuts to get the debt down. Unfortunately for both of them, it's basically both.

We've been running up the bill for 30 years, and then at the same, we have massive consumer debt plaguing the system as well. While cuts will help, and we do have to get the numbers down a ways on that count, we do need a limited amount of infrastructure spending to help stabilize jobs in construction of roads, bridges, and tunnels. Infrastructure does not mean mindlessly increasing the number of federal jobs, btw, but specifically increasing the infrastructure that aids businesses and consumers get about more efficiently, increasing the flow of business.



Exactly true. When you have student loans available for ANYONE to get what you end up with his "students" who quite frankly don't belong in college and thus colleges can raise their prices and still have plenty of students.

I HATE the student loan and pell grant programs with a passion.

[Dilloduck]

What we do with all the people if we didn't have colleges and the army ?

[ConHog]

What we do with all the people if we didn't have colleges and the army ?

Dillo, are you suggesting that there aren't a LOT of people in colleges who have no business being there except for it's easier than getting a job and we're at least partially funding them?

[Dilloduck]

Dillo, are you suggesting that there aren't a LOT of people in colleges who have no business being there except for it's easier than getting a job and we're at least partially funding them?

No. I just wonder where we would put em all and what would they do.

[ConHog]

No. I just wonder where we would put em all and what would they do.

plenty of good honest jobs out there which don't require a college education.

[Dilloduck]

plenty of good honest jobs out there which don't require a college education.

Hundreds of thousands ?

[ConHog]

Hundreds of thousands ?

Think there are that many people out there who are sucking up pell grants and student loans who don't belong in college? You might be rigfht.

[Dilloduck]

Think there are that many people out there who are sucking up pell grants and student loans who don't belong in college? You might be rigfht.

Plus all those with jobs administering them. There maybe even be one or two that we don't need in the military too.

[fj1200]

Hundreds of thousands ?

Yes. Doesn't mean that they still wouldn't get a college education with the price being held reasonable without the subsidization of higher ed.

[Dilloduck]

Yes. Doesn't mean that they still wouldn't get a college education with the price being held reasonable without the subsidization of higher ed.

I think out country has to pay people to go to college and pay people to be in the military because we have no other place to put them.

[ConHog]

I think out country has to pay people to go to college and pay people to be in the military because we have no other place to put them.


Give em all a weapon and a one way ticket to A stan.

[Dilloduck]

Give em all a weapon and a one way ticket to A stan.

We already tried that with a bunch of em. Viet Nam got a bunch too.

[fj1200]

I think out country has to pay people to go to college and pay people to be in the military because we have no other place to put them.

No, you would just have many people doing something different. You have to factor in that we would have had years of altered development and not just throwing people out of school overnight.

[ConHog]

No, you would just have many people doing something different. You have to factor in that we would have had years of altered development and not just throwing people out of school overnight.

any many of those need to be doing something different.

[Dilloduck]

No, you would just have many people doing something different. You have to factor in that we would have had years of altered development and not just throwing people out of school overnight.

Something different? Like building windmills and solar panels?

[fj1200]

Something different? Like building windmills and solar panels?

You know things like learning a trade and other useful skills rather than just educatin' for educatin' sake. The job market and higher education market would be very different from now, no?

[Dilloduck]

You know things like learning a trade and other useful skills rather than just educatin' for educatin' sake. The job market and higher education market would be very different from now, no?

I'm not sure I believe the job market will be coming back anytime soon. The American get up and go has got up and went. The labor market is overseas and American education is losing it's ability to compete. Exactly how will markets be so different that in the future that we won't need cheap labor and a well educated labor force ?

[fj1200]

^While I might agree with you on that I'm talking about changes that happened decades ago.