Thoughts on Immigration Policy

[JackDaniels]

As I wrote about (http://jeffwartman.com/obama-administration-immigration-policy-change/) yesterday, President Obama has shifted course on a certain immigration policy directive. There is a lot of misinformation out there that needs to be addressed before informed discussion can continue.Before I get into specifics, it should be noted that this is one of those issues that causes people to become extremely heated. It’s understandable — people want more responsible government, a better climate to create jobs, and a society that respects the rule of law. I share those concerns, but none of those concerns fall on the backs of undocumented workers nor does the shift in policy affect any movement towards those goals.First, I’ll state some myths that need to be explained...

Read the full article here: http://jeffwartman.com/thoughts-on-future-immigration-policy/

[red states rule]

Bottom line is Obozo is a desperate man, and after flipping on gay marriage he is now flipping off the American voters is a lame attempt to lock up the illegal immigrant vote

[jimnyc]

I love this part:


This is another one of those claims that simply has no basis in reality. First of all, while it is true that most undocumented workers may skip out on some taxes, they certainly pay taxes, whether it’s municipal user fees, sales taxes, and many more taxes.

And every working American pays them too - in addition - to the taxes taken from their paychecks. You call that "some taxes"? Do you think their SS#'s are recorded with the IRS and they are paying their fare share? I don't think so. And who else profits when these rodents don't pay these taxes? That's right, the business owner. And WHO ends up losing monies that should have been paid? That's right, us, the people, we make up for the differences. Your myth is only a myth because of distorted facts.

And you also say that illegal immigrants don't receive welfare, that it's a myth? - http://www.cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011

[red states rule]

I love this part:



And every working American pays them too - in addition - to the taxes taken from their paychecks. You call that "some taxes"? Do you think their SS#'s are recorded with the IRS and they are paying their fare share? I don't think so. And who else profits when these rodents don't pay these taxes? That's right, the business owner. And WHO ends up losing monies that should have been paid? That's right, us, the people, we make up for the differences. Your myth is only a myth because of distorted facts.

And you also say that illegal immigrants don't receive welfare, that it's a myth? - http://www.cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011

Is using the term "undocumented workers" the PC way of saying ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS?

I rememebr seeing some lib on TV saying if you call someone an illegal immigrant you are using a racist term

WTF is wrong with these people?

[SassyLady]

As I wrote about (http://jeffwartman.com/obama-administration-immigration-policy-change/) yesterday, President Obama has shifted course on a certain immigration policy directive. There is a lot of misinformation out there that needs to be addressed before informed discussion can continue.Before I get into specifics, it should be noted that this is one of those issues that causes people to become extremely heated. It’s understandable — people want more responsible government, a better climate to create jobs, and a society that respects the rule of law. I share those concerns, but none of those concerns fall on the backs of undocumented workers nor does the shift in policy affect any movement towards those goals.First, I’ll state some myths that need to be explained...

Read the full article here: http://jeffwartman.com/thoughts-on-future-immigration-policy/


I read your article and disagree with some of your "myth busters".

I'll start with taxes. They do pay some taxes ... sales tax on purchases and the taxes that are automatically deducted from their payroll, i.e., Social Security, Medicare. However, if they are in fact on payroll, and not being paid under the table (which is a whole different story in itself), most of them will claim outrageous dependents which effectively puts their FIT and SIT at 0. They have not paid in, therefore, they don't file returns (because most have moved on to the next job and change their names, addresses and social security numbers). It takes the IRS approximately two years to do a match up of those who were on payroll to the fact that returns were not filed.

When illegals are paid under the table with cash, not only do they not pay taxes, but the employer is not paying taxes .... both are stealing in my opinion.

If illegals want to stay here and become citizens, then they need to file back tax returns ... clear back to the time they say they arrived. Pay the taxes owed, or collect the refunds if any (which I doubt there are), penalties and interest. Once they've done this, and can pass the citizen test, then they go to the front of the immigration list for their country. When it's time to open up to that country, then they come back if all penalties are paid.

[jimnyc]

I'll start with taxes. They do pay some taxes ... sales tax on purchases and the taxes that are automatically deducted from their payroll, i.e., Social Security, Medicare. However, if they are in fact on payroll, and not being paid under the table (which is a whole different story in itself), most of them will claim outrageous dependents which effectively puts their FIT and SIT at 0. They have not paid in, therefore, they don't file returns (because most have moved on to the next job and change their names, addresses and social security numbers). It takes the IRS approximately two years to do a match up of those who were on payroll to the fact that returns were not filed.

I'm curious, without supplying their employer their tax information, such as a SS# or Tax ID (both of which citizenship would be a requirement) how can any employer take out money and hand it over to those places without the appropriate ID? Maybe in cases where they are here on visas and such, but then they would be legal. I'm not claiming to be an authority on this subject, but it makes more sense to me that the overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants that are working, are getting paid under the table.

[jimnyc]

Quickly re-reading your post, Sassy, maybe we said the same thing but in a different manner? I feel dumb today. LOL

[Kathianne]

I read your article and disagree with some of your "myth busters".

I'll start with taxes. They do pay some taxes ... sales tax on purchases and the taxes that are automatically deducted from their payroll, i.e., Social Security, Medicare. However, if they are in fact on payroll, and not being paid under the table (which is a whole different story in itself), most of them will claim outrageous dependents which effectively puts their FIT and SIT at 0. They have not paid in, therefore, they don't file returns (because most have moved on to the next job and change their names, addresses and social security numbers). It takes the IRS approximately two years to do a match up of those who were on payroll to the fact that returns were not filed.

When illegals are paid under the table with cash, not only do they not pay taxes, but the employer is not paying taxes .... both are stealing in my opinion.

If illegals want to stay here and become citizens, then they need to file back tax returns ... clear back to the time they say they arrived. Pay the taxes owed, or collect the refunds if any (which I doubt there are), penalties and interest. Once they've done this, and can pass the citizen test, then they go to the front of the immigration list for their country. When it's time to open up to that country, then they come back if all penalties are paid.

It was an 'undocumented worker' in NYC that stole my son's SSN when he was in last year of high school. The first two years, he took the refund from his part time work. In the second year he started filing earnings in excess of $50k. My son was in 3rd year of college, filed as he normally would, got a notice from IRS that he owed tens of thousands in back taxes, and penalties off refunds for false filings. It took over 3 years to get the IRS to act.

[red states rule]

http://www.stopthenorthamericanunion.com/DotsImages/ANSWER-AmnistiaFullRightsForIllegals.jpg




Looks like Obozo has granted their demands

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I read your article and disagree with some of your "myth busters".

I'll start with taxes. They do pay some taxes ... sales tax on purchases and the taxes that are automatically deducted from their payroll, i.e., Social Security, Medicare. However, if they are in fact on payroll, and not being paid under the table (which is a whole different story in itself), most of them will claim outrageous dependents which effectively puts their FIT and SIT at 0. They have not paid in, therefore, they don't file returns (because most have moved on to the next job and change their names, addresses and social security numbers). It takes the IRS approximately two years to do a match up of those who were on payroll to the fact that returns were not filed.

When illegals are paid under the table with cash, not only do they not pay taxes, but the employer is not paying taxes .... both are stealing in my opinion.

If illegals want to stay here and become citizens, then they need to file back tax returns ... clear back to the time they say they arrived. Pay the taxes owed, or collect the refunds if any (which I doubt there are), penalties and interest. Once they've done this, and can pass the citizen test, then they go to the front of the immigration list for their country. When it's time to open up to that country, then they come back if all penalties are paid.

A great suggestion. Which means that it will not be properly considered by those with the power to make it happen!
Such is the nature of the "beast" that we with common sense, law abiding hearts and decency must fight .-Tyr

[red states rule]

This should be the nation's immigration policy


http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001244873/Illegals20Arent20Immigrants20Theyre20Criminals_ans wer_7_xlarge.jpeg

[logroller]

It was an 'undocumented worker' in NYC that stole my son's SSN when he was in last year of high school. The first two years, he took the refund from his part time work. In the second year he started filing earnings in excess of $50k. My son was in 3rd year of college, filed as he normally would, got a notice from IRS that he owed tens of thousands in back taxes, and penalties off refunds for false filings. It took over 3 years to get the IRS to act.
IMO that's identity theft. I know of two people who've had their SSN's used and if you think it's hard to get the IRS to act, you'd be outright disgusted with the credit bureaus.

[red states rule]

http://www.worldgonemad.tv/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/obama-amnesty-illegals-dumbass.jpg

[Kathianne]

IMO that's identity theft. I know of two people who've had their SSN's used and if you think it's hard to get the IRS to act, you'd be outright disgusted with the credit bureaus.

Actually it was one of the agents at a credit bureau that gave him an organization to help him get the IRS to act. Whether he has all his credit repaired yet? I don't know. It really sucked though in college that he didn't get any refunds that he was due, instead they just kept threatening him.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

The Latest Politics, News & Election Videos





Posted on June 15, 2012 Krauthammer: Obama's Immigration Policy Is "Out-And-Out Lawlessness"
Related Videos | expand Playing krauthammer obamas immigration policy is out-and-out lawlessness
445730 Playing msnbc guest would a white president get heckled
445722 Playing obama young illegals are americans in every way except on paper
445721 Playing cnn obama decision to stop deporting young illegals a victory
445715 "Beyond the pandering, beyond the politics, beyond the process is simple constitutional decency. This is out-and-out lawlessness. You had a clip of the president himself say months ago 'I cannot do this on my own because there are laws on the books.' Well, I have news for the president: The laws remain on the books, they haven't changed," syndicated columnist Charles Krauthammer said on "FOX News" tonight.

"He proposed the DREAM Act of which the executive order is a variation. He proposed a DREAM Act. The Congress said no. The Congress is the one who makes the laws. What the administration does is it administers law. And in fact, what it's pretending to do is to use discretion, that's what the Homeland Security Secretary said," Dr. Krauthammer said.

"This is not discretion," he said. "Discretion is when you treat it on a one-by-one basis on the grounds of extenuating circumstances. This is the declaration of a whole new set of criteria, which is essentially resurrecting the legislation that the Congress has said no to."

“And I think this is not how you run a constitutional Republic. This ought to be in the hands of Congress, and it is an end-run. What's ironic of course is for eight years, the Democrats have been screaming about the imperial presidency with the Bush administration, the nonsense about the unitary executive. This is out-and-out lawlessness. This is not how you govern. And I think that's the first issue that should be on the table," Krauthammer concluded.


K-man is right this time. Obama has overstepped his bounds and does so with such Arrogance that it's truly breathtaking! He plays to win votes from illegal latinos and others the nation be damned. SCOTUS can not get involved and settle this before the vote in November and he banks on that. It'll be too late to matter if he wins and irrelevant if he loses!
Stil treason I believe!--Tyr

[ConHog]

The Latest Politics, News & Election Videos





Posted on June 15, 2012 Krauthammer: Obama's Immigration Policy Is "Out-And-Out Lawlessness"
Related Videos | expand Playing krauthammer obamas immigration policy is out-and-out lawlessness
445730 Playing msnbc guest would a white president get heckled
445722 Playing obama young illegals are americans in every way except on paper
445721 Playing cnn obama decision to stop deporting young illegals a victory
445715 "Beyond the pandering, beyond the politics, beyond the process is simple constitutional decency. This is out-and-out lawlessness. You had a clip of the president himself say months ago 'I cannot do this on my own because there are laws on the books.' Well, I have news for the president: The laws remain on the books, they haven't changed," syndicated columnist Charles Krauthammer said on "FOX News" tonight.

"He proposed the DREAM Act of which the executive order is a variation. He proposed a DREAM Act. The Congress said no. The Congress is the one who makes the laws. What the administration does is it administers law. And in fact, what it's pretending to do is to use discretion, that's what the Homeland Security Secretary said," Dr. Krauthammer said.

"This is not discretion," he said. "Discretion is when you treat it on a one-by-one basis on the grounds of extenuating circumstances. This is the declaration of a whole new set of criteria, which is essentially resurrecting the legislation that the Congress has said no to."

“And I think this is not how you run a constitutional Republic. This ought to be in the hands of Congress, and it is an end-run. What's ironic of course is for eight years, the Democrats have been screaming about the imperial presidency with the Bush administration, the nonsense about the unitary executive. This is out-and-out lawlessness. This is not how you govern. And I think that's the first issue that should be on the table," Krauthammer concluded.


K-man is right this time. Obama has overstepped his bounds and does so with such Arrogance that it's truly breathtaking! He plays to win votes from illegal latinos and others the nation be damned. SCOTUS can not get involved and settle this before the vote in November and he banks on that. It'll be too late to matter if he wins and irrelevant if he loses!
Stil treason I believe!--Tyr



I already proved you wrong on this. In the thread you ran from when facts started being posted

[logroller]

Actually it was one of the agents at a credit bureau that gave him an organization to help him get the IRS to act. Whether he has all his credit repaired yet? I don't know. It really sucked though in college that he didn't get any refunds that he was due, instead they just kept threatening him.
That's cool someone steered him the right direction. Credit repair though, those two people i m tioned have to send in police reports and other documentation every time they apply for any credit. You'd think the bureaus could just delete it or otherwise show it's not applicable. Ida know... Life I guess. It's frustrating sometimes.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I already proved you wrong on this. In the thread you ran from when facts started being posted

Dude , believing one's own fantasies bodes ill for a number of reasons.
I am too tired and too in need of sleep to teach you right now. Maybe Sunday I can spare the time.
If not, you'll just have to suffer a bit more..-:laugh2:
I havent ran from anybody since I was 6 years old .-:laugh:
Your arrogance is only matched by your insecurity. Seek help soon..--Tyr

[Kathianne]

That's cool someone steered him the right direction. Credit repair though, those two people i m tioned have to send in police reports and other documentation every time they apply for any credit. You'd think the bureaus could just delete it or otherwise show it's not applicable. Ida know... Life I guess. It's frustrating sometimes.

Oh he did go to police and filed a report, AFTER IRS told him they KNEW who had his SSN, even told him they KNEW it was stolen. Of course they couldn't give him a name or address, just NYC, that person had a right to privacy.

The problem? My son's claim was too small, not worth their resources. He was like, "But you are refusing my just refunds AND holding me liable for the person committing the theft? You've not gone after him. I really need that $600 and $450 for school! Mind you, they were at the same time leaving him with a 'debt' + interest of tens of thousands of dollars, when he'd never earned more than $5000 in a year, if that!

[ConHog]

Oh he did go to police and filed a report, AFTER IRS told him they KNEW who had his SSN, even told him they KNEW it was stolen. Of course they couldn't give him a name or address, just NYC, that person had a right to privacy.

The problem? My son's claim was too small, not worth their resources. He was like, "But you are refusing my just refunds AND holding me liable for the person committing the theft? You've not gone after him. I really need that $600 and $450 for school! Mind you, they were at the same time leaving him with a 'debt' + interest of tens of thousands of dollars, when he'd never earned more than $5000 in a year, if that!

More supporting evidence to move away from the income tax model

[SassyLady]

I'm curious, without supplying their employer their tax information, such as a SS# or Tax ID (both of which citizenship would be a requirement) how can any employer take out money and hand it over to those places without the appropriate ID? Maybe in cases where they are here on visas and such, but then they would be legal. I'm not claiming to be an authority on this subject, but it makes more sense to me that the overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants that are working, are getting paid under the table.

Jim, they have forged identification, including social security numbers. Employers are not required to do a check to see if SS # matches name given. Until each employer is required to check, illegals will continue to use forged ID and it takes years for the IRS to do a match up.

I worked in the wine industry and each harvest we would have workers show up and we would put them on the payroll. After harvest they move on. A couple of years later we get notice from IRS that the number and name submitted on our year end W-2 reports didn't match. All we were required to do was notify the IRS with what we had on file for their last address.

[ConHog]

Jim, they have forged identification, including social security numbers. Employers are not required to do a check to see if SS # matches name given. Until each employer is required to check, illegals will continue to use forged ID and it takes years for the IRS to do a match up.

I worked in the wine industry and each harvest we would have workers show up and we would put them on the payroll. After harvest they move on. A couple of years later we get notice from IRS that the number and name submitted on our year end W-2 reports didn't match. All we were required to do was notify the IRS with what we had on file for their last address.

We gotta get the real id act applied

[logroller]

Oh he did go to police and filed a report, AFTER IRS told him they KNEW who had his SSN, even told him they KNEW it was stolen. Of course they couldn't give him a name or address, just NYC, that person had a right to privacy.

The problem? My son's claim was too small, not worth their resources. He was like, "But you are refusing my just refunds AND holding me liable for the person committing the theft? You've not gone after him. I really need that $600 and $450 for school! Mind you, they were at the same time leaving him with a 'debt' + interest of tens of thousands of dollars, when he'd never earned more than $5000 in a year, if that!

That's terrible. He tried filing a grievance with the irs? Seems there'd be something they could do; just gotta make himself an irritation. It's sad people will just blow you off unless you make yourself a bother-- the squeaky wheel and all.

[Kathianne]

That's terrible. He tried filing a grievance with the irs? Seems there'd be something they could do; just gotta make himself an irritation. It's sad people will just blow you off unless you make yourself a bother-- the squeaky wheel and all.

Thanks to the organization the credit bureau person suggested, they did get to it, though it took another year and a half. Before that, they basically told him that his 'claim' was too small, regardless that they had the thief's name, address, and employer. He should just 'pay up' and get on with it.

Seriously.

They admitted to knowing the name, address, and employer! Still they wouldn't go after the thief, when the victim had so much more to lose.

[red states rule]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8yBmwXW4XEM/TIuroRXKMJI/AAAAAAAAKxc/zWHqXaZfaIc/s400/ARIZONA+ILLEGALS,+OBAMACARTOON.jpg

[fj1200]

As I wrote about (http://jeffwartman.com/obama-administration-immigration-policy-change/) yesterday...


Are you Jeff Wartman? Kind of a hack aren't you?

http://jeffwartman.com/why-im-leaving-the-republican-party-and-endorsing-president-obama/

[jimnyc]

Are you Jeff Wartman? Kind of a hack aren't you?

http://jeffwartman.com/why-im-leaving-the-republican-party-and-endorsing-president-obama/

Good find, and too funny! I don't think he had any desire to debate any of this, it appears he came by to drop off his link.

[SassyLady]

I will not address any more of the "myths" of this article until the OP comes back and participates in the thread he started. Waste of time to respond to trolling.

[fj1200]

Good find, and too funny! I don't think he had any desire to debate any of this, it appears he came by to drop off his link.

I'm just wondering how he got to almost 500 posts and I'm no spring chicken 'round these parts.

[gabosaurus]

It's a lot simpler than you people want it to be.
No jobs = no illegal immigrants.
Immigrants who get caught are arrested and deported. Employers who hire illegals get a fine or less. This is because the employers can hire lawyers and the illegals can not.
Shut down businesses who hire illegals and throw the owners in jail. Stop allowing them to play the system.
Current state and federal policies blame the poison apples for everything. Either cut down the tree or shut up.

[logroller]

I'm just wondering how he got to almost 500 posts and I'm no spring chicken 'round these parts.
Were i investigating such an interest, i'd Check to see if the first of his blog posts coincides with his hiatus from dp. Perhaps checking to see if his recent changes in POV are truly different than those prior to the 2008 elections. That's if I cared...which i don't.

[jimnyc]

Were i investigating such an interest, i'd Check to see if the first of his blog posts coincides with his hiatus from dp. Perhaps checking to see if his recent changes in POV are truly different than those prior to the 2008 elections. That's if I cared...which i don't.

Well, I think it's safe to say that he "left" the Republicans prior to the last election as well, and before he even started posting here. From one of his initial posts here:


Because I believe in Goldwater Conservativism, and I'm sick of the people who currently support the Republicans.

There isn't really a discussion as to current Republicans; if you support the current Republican party, it means you are a big government liberal. END of story.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?7058-Rudy-Giuliani-is-a-liberal&p=124644#post124644

[SassyLady]

It's a lot simpler than you people want it to be.
No jobs = no illegal immigrants.
Immigrants who get caught are arrested and deported. Employers who hire illegals get a fine or less. This is because the employers can hire lawyers and the illegals can not.
Shut down businesses who hire illegals and throw the owners in jail. Stop allowing them to play the system.
Current state and federal policies blame the poison apples for everything. Either cut down the tree or shut up.

And you wanted to arrest Jan Brewer ... what do you think she's been doing in Arizona?

[gabosaurus]

And you wanted to arrest Jan Brewer ... what do you think she's been doing in Arizona?

Obviously she has been mouthing off a lot and doing very little. How many companies have been shut down for employing illegals?
Brewer is avoiding the big problem by solving the small ones. Deporting illegals makes you popular among people. Shutting down businesses does not.

[red states rule]

As with any opposition to Pres Obama, if your support the enforcement of the nations's immigration LAWS you are a racist

At least that is the continuing talking point issued by that fine "Jeopardy" player Chris Matthews at PSMNBC


http://www.mrctv.org/videos/chris-matthews-smears-immigration-enforcement-supporters-are-back-africa-types

[red states rule]

Obviously she has been mouthing off a lot and doing very little. How many companies have been shut down for employing illegals?
Brewer is avoiding the big problem by solving the small ones. Deporting illegals makes you popular among people. Shutting down businesses does not.

I am sure Obama's latest policy will do wonders for the nations unemployemnt rate Gabby

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/lb0619cd20120618060805.jpg

[SassyLady]

Obviously she has been mouthing off a lot and doing very little. How many companies have been shut down for employing illegals?
Brewer is avoiding the big problem by solving the small ones. Deporting illegals makes you popular among people. Shutting down businesses does not.

Gabby ... we've had this discussion before ... why do you continue to ignore that Arizona companies are being held accountable?


https://www.numbersusa.com/content/news/august-30-2011/arizona-company-fined-600000-hiring-illegal-aliens.html

Arizona Company Fined $600,000 for Hiring Illegal Aliens

[fj1200]

^The talking point is much better copy.