Let's Restrict Home Schooling

[stephanie]

Here's a progressive point of view...

With varying degrees of red-tape, home schooling is allowed in each and every one of our 50 states.

Obviusly there were and are political reasons for this. Lots of home-schooling parents run with the creationists. Creationists are easily led, and they vote.

But as to other reasons for this blanket surrender to home school advocates- I for one, have never understood why.


Of course I know that our public school systems are plagued by problems, but I have to think that through time- even now- our public schools have nurtured tens of millions of solid citizens. And surely, our private schools have nurtured and produced millions more of our best people.

I'm not blind to the fact that many solid citizens have been home-schooled. I've even heard of homeschoolers winning science fairs, and being accepted to prestigious colleges. Because I admit that home schooling works in some cases, I don't view myself as a bigot in that regard.

Still, when I look at the bigger picture, I am far from assured that the blanket legality of home-schooling serves society too well.

I'm troubled by the fact that a significant percentage of home schooling parents choose this option because of an overriding feeling that they want their children to pursue curricula from theology or received wisdom rather than a scientific perspective.

I wonder how many of these types of home-schooled kids take the assumptions of say, 6,500 year-old earths and other lack of respect for scientific inquiry into adulthood. Will these people be on equal preparatory footing for jobs where scientific inquisitiveness, technical insight or critical thinking skills are far more necessary than rote recitation?

I'm also troubled, frankly, by parents who find the world overly complex, and want to keep their students at home in the service of simplicity and protectiveness.

I'm equally troubled by the fact that a non-trivial number of homeschoolers are taught in that way because their parents are overly rugged individualists who lack the impulse or skills to mix in as collaborative members of everyday society.

Well, the world is overly complex. Lots of different types of people, of cultural forces. Hiding off somewhere and teaching your kids away from the influence of a socially formative school environment can make it harder for your children to learn about the give-and-take of life in our present-day culture.

Listen, I am not advocating that home-schooling should be outlawed. Of course there should be exemptions- where the child is in physical danger in their public school, when the child is physically immobile, where the family lives in a remote geographical area. In these cases- and when a parent professionally trained as a qualified educator is available- sure, home schooling would be OK.

But as to the homeschooler subjected to beliefs that run counter to scientific inquiry and the principles in which knowledge is pursued and attained- I say send them to school and let the parents devote some of their off-hours to teaching what they feel their kids should know. One such scenario: kid comes home and tells her parent that "today our teacher said the universe is 14.5 billion years old, but we learned in Sunday School God created the world 6,500 years ago.."

Then, and only then, is the most appropriate time for the parent to get involved.


I was surprised at some of the comments to this drivel..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/russell-shaw/lets-restrict-home-schoo_b_49013.html

[5stringJeff]

I'm not surprised, unfortunately. But I can't help but sit and shake my head. Parents have the primary responsibility for educating their children, not the state.

[Birdzeye]

I believe that it was conservatives who began the home-schooling movement, but that other parents have become home schoolers for other than political reasons.

I don't particularly like the idea of parents shielding their children from ideas that are contrary to their religious beliefs (such as the theory of evolution); my opinion is that children should not be kept ignorant of other ideas. However, parents have the right to raise their kids as they see fit, even if I don't like how they're doing it.

My only reservation about home schooling is the qualifications of the parents to do the teaching job. No, I don't believe that you need a degree in education to teach your kids, but I fear that some parents simply aren't up to the job. I know I could do fine at teaching math and science, but I'd be useless at teaching literature (not my favorite subject when I was in school).

Oh, and I personally know a few moms who have home schooled their kids. As far as I can tell, they did a pretty good job. One mom's son got his GED at age 16 and then enrolled in the local community college to study engineering.

[Hobbit]

This is disgusting. As the government school system gets worse and more ideological and fanatical in its indoctrination, people keep trying to find more ways to force innocent children to be subjected to the abject Hell of government schools. I went to a government school from 7th grade on, and despite the fact that my parents had no way to both feed my sister and me and send us to private school, it's something they have regretted having to do ever since. Government schools are run by teachers unions, the single greatest threat to the future prosperity of this country. If I had two buttons in front of me, one that would eliminate Islamic terrorists forever and one that would eliminate teachers' unions forever, I'd hit the latter.

[Birdzeye]

This is disgusting. As the government school system gets worse and more ideological and fanatical in its indoctrination, people keep trying to find more ways to force innocent children to be subjected to the abject Hell of government schools. I went to a government school from 7th grade on, and despite the fact that my parents had no way to both feed my sister and me and send us to private school, it's something they have regretted having to do ever since. Government schools are run by teachers unions, the single greatest threat to the future prosperity of this country. If I had two buttons in front of me, one that would eliminate Islamic terrorists forever and one that would eliminate teachers' unions forever, I'd hit the latter.

And what would you put in its place, for those who are incapable of home schooling their kids themselves and who can't afford to pay tuition? Illiteracy is a big time handicap in this society of ours.

[Doniston]

And what would you put in its place, for those who are incapable of home schooling their kids themselves and who can't afford to pay tuition? Illiteracy is a big time handicap in this society of ours.

Unfortunately, here in California, Home schooling is more often used for incooregable kids, who can't behave in schools. Something like a lax house arrest.

[Hobbit]

And what would you put in its place, for those who are incapable of home schooling their kids themselves and who can't afford to pay tuition? Illiteracy is a big time handicap in this society of ours.

Vouchers? School choice? Hell, independant study would be better than what we have now.

[Birdzeye]

Vouchers? School choice? Hell, independant study would be better than what we have now.

Vouchers would only work if they covered the entire cost of tuition; otherwise, it would be impossible for families of limited means to get their kids educated. Our society has decided that it's important for its citizens to be literate; that's why we have MANDATORY education laws. No way that can happen if parents get a $3K voucher but still have to cough up another $20K for each kid.

[Hobbit]

Vouchers would only work if they covered the entire cost of tuition; otherwise, it would be impossible for families of limited means to get their kids educated. Our society has decided that it's important for its citizens to be literate; that's why we have MANDATORY education laws. No way that can happen if parents get a $3K voucher but still have to cough up another $20K for each kid.

You're assuming that I wasn't talking about the entire tuition (which I think would be appropriate). In fact, let's just forget private school altogether for a second. Why can't I pick which government school to send my kids to? If we just allowed people to pick which government school to send the kids to, those schools would have to compete for funding, and would thus improve or get shut down.

What's funny is that every time somebody brings up vouchers, somebody else talks about how much it will hurt the poor, when it's the poor who are the most in favor of it, since there's no way they can afford to send their children to a different school without help. Just check out my thread on how well it's working in D.C.

[Birdzeye]

You're assuming that I wasn't talking about the entire tuition (which I think would be appropriate). In fact, let's just forget private school altogether for a second. Why can't I pick which government school to send my kids to? If we just allowed people to pick which government school to send the kids to, those schools would have to compete for funding, and would thus improve or get shut down.

What's funny is that every time somebody brings up vouchers, somebody else talks about how much it will hurt the poor, when it's the poor who are the most in favor of it, since there's no way they can afford to send their children to a different school without help. Just check out my thread on how well it's working in D.C.

OK, now I understand where you're coming from. I was under the impression you wanted to abolish public schools, which I don't believe is realistic.

[Hobbit]

OK, now I understand where you're coming from. I was under the impression you wanted to abolish public schools, which I don't believe is realistic.

Oh, I do, but one step at a time, and not in such a way that education will go back to being a rare commodity. I believe in government subsidized education, just not government controlled education.

[5stringJeff]

I believe that it was conservatives who began the home-schooling movement, but that other parents have become home schoolers for other than political reasons.

I don't particularly like the idea of parents shielding their children from ideas that are contrary to their religious beliefs (such as the theory of evolution); my opinion is that children should not be kept ignorant of other ideas. However, parents have the right to raise their kids as they see fit, even if I don't like how they're doing it.

I guess this depends on your POV. My children are being raised, and will continue to be raised, with a Christian worldview, to include things like creationism, pro-life views, etc. etc. That doesn't mean ignoring the opposing viewpoints, it means showing what those alternate viewpoints are, comparing the two, and showing why the alternates are incorrect and the Christian worldview is correct. And that will occur regardless of whether my kids are in public or private school.

[Bulldog]

Oh, I do, but one step at a time, and not in such a way that education will go back to being a rare commodity. I believe in government subsidized education, just not government controlled education.

:clap:

Bulldog.

[Hagbard Celine]

This is disgusting. As the government school system gets worse and more ideological and fanatical in its indoctrination, people keep trying to find more ways to force innocent children to be subjected to the abject Hell of government schools. I went to a government school from 7th grade on, and despite the fact that my parents had no way to both feed my sister and me and send us to private school, it's something they have regretted having to do ever since. Government schools are run by teachers unions, the single greatest threat to the future prosperity of this country. If I had two buttons in front of me, one that would eliminate Islamic terrorists forever and one that would eliminate teachers' unions forever, I'd hit the latter.

The public school system is NOT fanatically indoctrinating people. What you're doing is known in psychology as "projection." I know that what you want is for schools to teach Bible lessons and lead school prayer sessions, teaching kids creationism (id) and replacing pep rallies with ritualized recitations of the pledge of allegiance and "God Bless America."

The thing you fail to realize is that YOUR view of what schools should be IS fanatical indoctrination. Teaching science in science class (I assume your frothing is over the teaching of evolution) is NOT indoctrination. If you want your kids (if you ever have them) to learn Bible stories instead of biology, geology and history, I recommend that you send them to Christian school. Every community has Christian schools. You shouldn't have a hard time finding one.

In the meantime, the public school system will continue to imbibe the nation's future-leading-minds with the secular education they need to function normally in society. And the Bible fables we all learned as kids will continue to be taught to them in Sunday school--just as they were taught to us.

[Birdzeye]

I guess this depends on your POV. My children are being raised, and will continue to be raised, with a Christian worldview, to include things like creationism, pro-life views, etc. etc. That doesn't mean ignoring the opposing viewpoints, it means showing what those alternate viewpoints are, comparing the two, and showing why the alternates are incorrect and the Christian worldview is correct. And that will occur regardless of whether my kids are in public or private school.

And I consider that commendable, even if I may disagree with you on some points and issues. At least you're not shielding your kids from the reality that others see things differently, while you try to instill your values in them.

[Hobbit]

The public school system is NOT fanatically indoctrinating people. What you're doing is known in psychology as "projection." I know that what you want is for schools to teach Bible lessons and lead school prayer sessions, teaching kids creationism (id) and replacing pep rallies with ritualized recitations of the pledge of allegiance and "God Bless America."

The thing you fail to realize is that YOUR view of what schools should be IS fanatical indoctrination. Teaching science in science class (I assume your frothing is over the teaching of evolution) is NOT indoctrination. If you want your kids (if you ever have them) to learn Bible stories instead of biology, geology and history, I recommend that you send them to Christian school. Every community has Christian schools. You shouldn't have a hard time finding one.

In the meantime, the public school system will continue to imbibe the nation's future-leading-minds with the secular education they need to function normally in society. And the Bible fables we all learned as kids will continue to be taught to them in Sunday school--just as they were taught to us.

I don't want theology taught in government schools because, among other reasons, they'll get it wrong, just like they do to everything else they touch. It's a plague.

As far as indoctrination, I don't know what else to call it. The New Deal is taught as the one thing that saved the United States from total collapse (while many economists believe it prolonged the Depression). FDR is portrayed as a saint. The Civil War (misnamed, for one) is taught to be about slavery. The impact religion had in the founding of this country is ommitted. They're even claiming that Thanksgiving was solely about thanking the Indians. School supplies are taken away, in violation of private property rights, and re-distributed as the teacher sees fit. Self-defense is a crime. The idiotic Global Warming Superdisaster myth is taught as fact. Teaching FACTS that even appear to contradict the gospel of Darwinism get teachers fired. There's hardly any mention of the birth of the Income Tax, the full applications of the Second Ammendment (many textbooks now claim the Second Ammendment does nothing but allow the creation of militias and that it's not an individual right), the horrible things done to the South during reconstruction, the atrocities committed against the American Indians, or even the fact that America is a republic, not a democracy.

There's an agenda there, and the agenda is not to teach kids all of the facts.

[Hagbard Celine]

I don't want theology taught in government schools because, among other reasons, they'll get it wrong, just like they do to everything else they touch. It's a plague.

As far as indoctrination, I don't know what else to call it. The New Deal is taught as the one thing that saved the United States from total collapse (while many economists believe it prolonged the Depression). FDR is portrayed as a saint. The Civil War (misnamed, for one) is taught to be about slavery. The impact religion had in the founding of this country is ommitted. They're even claiming that Thanksgiving was solely about thanking the Indians. School supplies are taken away, in violation of private property rights, and re-distributed as the teacher sees fit. Self-defense is a crime. The idiotic Global Warming Superdisaster myth is taught as fact. Teaching FACTS that even appear to contradict the gospel of Darwinism get teachers fired. There's hardly any mention of the birth of the Income Tax, the full applications of the Second Ammendment (many textbooks now claim the Second Ammendment does nothing but allow the creation of militias and that it's not an individual right), the horrible things done to the South during reconstruction, the atrocities committed against the American Indians, or even the fact that America is a republic, not a democracy.

There's an agenda there, and the agenda is not to teach kids all of the facts.

So :tinfoil: is it the godless teachers unions or the textbook manufacturers -or- the US government that is to blame for the inadequacies of our nation's curricula?

btw, calling the scientific theory of evolution a "dogma" doesn't change the fact that it's a scientific theory just like sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken. :cheers2:

[Hobbit]

So :tinfoil: is it the godless teachers unions or the textbook manufacturers -or- the US government that is to blame for the inadequacies of our nation's curricula?

It's mainly on the shoulders of the US government, which gets to set the curriculum, has ensured that any educational choices are prohibitively expensive, and, in general, has promoted the PC-ification of every government school. Without competition, schools can teach whatever they want rather than what the parents want, and with increasing levels of laws that forbid parents from dictating their childrens' educations, more and more kids are being taught the dumbest crap in school, directly against what their parents are trying to teach them.


btw, calling the scientific theory of evolution a "dogma" doesn't change the fact that it's a scientific theory just like sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken. :cheers2:

Yes, it's scientific theory, which means it should be tested, retested, and put under advanced scrutiny. Science is everchanging, evolving, if you will. To resist facts that may bring change is a crime against science. I'm not talking about teaching some 6000 year old Earth nutjob dogma here, but when a science teacher is fired for showing his students articles about the discovery of a pre-Cambrian stratum in China on the grounds of seperation of church and state*, I tend to think indoctrination.

I can't remember the guy's name, but I have read legitamite articles on him. He was a teacher in Washington State. The reason this stratum supposedly amounted to teaching religion is that it is evidence supporting a hole in Darwinian evolution called the "Cambrian Explosion." At the dawn of the Cambrian Era, nearly every phylum of life now classified appeared in a relatively short period of time (less than 10 million years). Prior to the discovery of this stratum, it was theorized that this didn't actually happen and that the transitional life forms were hard to fossilize and that the pre-Cambrian environment was not good for fossilization. The stratum proved both points wrong, as it was dated as just prior to the dawn of the Cambrian Era, contained extremely simple organisms (mostly sponges and similar creatures) that were almost perfectly fossilized. It's not exactly a silver bullet that completely disproves evolution, but it is a wrench thrown in the gears, and American teachers are forbidden from teaching its discovery, because Americans United for the Seperation of Church and State has classified it as religious dogma.

[Abbey Marie]

Inconvenient Truth in Schools, a Little Inconvenient?
by Matthew Sparkes, London, UK on 05.20.07

A student from Ontario has complained that he has been shown An Inconvenient Truth a total of four times as part of high-school classes. Understandably he was shown it in his environment class, and then his world issues class, but was also shown it in history, and economics. "I really don't understand why they keep showing it," says McKenzie, whose last name is withheld on his parent’s request. "I've spoken to the principal about it, and he said that teachers are instructed to present it as a debate. But every time we've seen it, well, one teacher said this is basically a two-sided debate, but this movie really gives you the best idea of what's going on."

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/05/a_student_from.php