Dems + high tax rates = more of this kind of thing

[Abbey Marie]

Whatever excuses this man tries to give, it's the taxes, baby. And if Hussein is re-elected, I believe we will see more of this kind of thing.


Here’s a tax tip for Mark Zuckerberg (http://www.latimes.com/topic/economy-business-finance/computing-information-technology-industry/mark-zuckerberg-PEBSL000091.topic): Give up your U.S. citizenship.

The 27-year-old Facebook Inc. founder could face a tax bill of more than $1 billion after the company’s initial public offering, expected next week.

His former Harvard classmate who is known as “the other Facebook founder” may have found a way to cut the bill. Eduardo Saverin, who now lives in Singapore (http://www.latimes.com/topic/intl/singapore-PLGEO00000160.topic), has given up his U.S. citizenship. Tax experts say it’s a shrewd move.

Saverin, who was immortalized in the film “The Social Network” as Zuckerberg’s contentious former friend and business partner, has a 4% stake in the company, according to the Who Owns Facebook? website. His stake could be worth nearly $4 billion after the IPO.

“It's definitely savvy tax planning,” said Edward D. Kleinbard, a professor of law at USC who specializes in federal tax policy and international taxation. “He can argue that the value of the Facebook shares in September, when he gave up his citizenship, were significantly less than the value that will be set at the IPO next week.”
...
it was likely that Saverin and the IRS (http://www.latimes.com/topic/economy-business-finance/internal-revenue-service-ORGOV000010.topic) will disagree on how much exit tax Saverin owes, but it could be as much as $150 million. That's a big number, but it might still be less than the taxes Saverin would owe if he stayed in the country.
...
http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-eduardo-saverin-tax-tip-20120511,0,7396346.story

[logroller]

Income generated in the US is still taxed regardless of citizenship. Any apparent discount would be that his other non-us income would be excluded from his taxable gross; whereas an ex-pat must still include foreign income. Whatever tax games he plays regarding valued stock at or before an IPO are an aside from his citizenship status.

[fj1200]

Income generated in the US is still taxed regardless of citizenship.

I think capital gains taxes are the issue here and would be the bulk of his earnings.

[logroller]

I think capital gains taxes are the issue here and would be the bulk of his earnings.
Income: earnings/ cap gains, regardless, the rates don't vary with one's citizenship status do they?

[Abbey Marie]

Income generated in the US is still taxed regardless of citizenship. Any apparent discount would be that his other non-us income would be excluded from his taxable gross; whereas an ex-pat must still include foreign income. Whatever tax games he plays regarding valued stock at or before an IPO are an aside from his citizenship status.

The author, and I would bet, Saverin, seem to think leaving the US will be muy beneficial financially:
it was likely that Saverin and the IRS (http://www.latimes.com/topic/economy-business-finance/internal-revenue-service-ORGOV000010.topic) will disagree on how much exit tax Saverin owes, but it could be as much as $150 million. That's a big number, but it might still be less than the taxes Saverin would owe if he stayed in the country.

[fj1200]

Income: earnings/ cap gains, regardless, the rates don't vary with one's citizenship status do they?

The US doesn't have tax jurisdiction on cap gains if he's not a resident. He can sell his shares in Singapore and the US would have no recourse. That's why he needs to pay an "exit" tax based on current value.

[ConHog]

Whatever excuses this man tries to give, it's the taxes, baby. And if Hussein is re-elected, I believe we will see more of this kind of thing.

Abbey, I'm honestly not sure what Obama has to do with chicken shit games like this. The rich have been playing games like this with the tax code for longer than we've all been alive.

This is a classic example of why I favor a national sales tax in lieu of income tax. Just get rid of any and all loopholes .

[fj1200]

Abbey, I'm honestly not sure what Obama has to do with chicken shit games like this. The rich have been playing games like this with the tax code for longer than we've all been alive.

Umm, higher taxes?

[Abbey Marie]

Abbey, I'm honestly not sure what Obama has to do with chicken shit games like this. The rich have been playing games like this with the tax code for longer than we've all been alive.

This is a classic example of why I favor a national sales tax in lieu of income tax. Just get rid of any and all loopholes .

Obama is a tax and spend President like no other I've seen. And less directly, he is pushing a class-warfare agenda like I've never seen in this country.

The primary argument the Dems have against Romney is that he is bad because he is rich. If we have another 4 years of this President, I predict more and more of the wealthy will simply leave rather have their money taken by the government for redistribution.

[ConHog]

Obama is a tax and spend President like no other I've seen. And less directly, he is pushing a class-warfare agenda like I've never seen in this country.

The primary argument the Dems have against Romney is that he is bad because he is rich. If we have another 4 years of this President, I predict more and more of the wealthy will simply leave rather have their money taken by the government for redistribution.

okay , well we fully agree then. I thought you were just implying that the wealthy weren't trying to hide their income before O took office.

[logroller]

The US doesn't have tax jurisdiction on cap gains if he's not a resident. He can sell his shares in Singapore and the US would have no recourse. That's why he needs to pay an "exit" tax based on current value.

I don't know. It just seems logical that sales of Facebook stock takes place in a us market, thus fall under SEC guidelines. Unless he sold the stock before the IPO, any sales post announcement would fall under the national jurisdiction of the market; in this case, I'm assuming the NYSE, the SEC and therefore the IRS. I'll check the OECD, but I'm pretty sure such that the way it'll work.

[fj1200]

I don't know. It just seems logical that sales of Facebook stock takes place in a us market, thus fall under SEC guidelines. Unless he sold the stock before the IPO, any sales post announcement would fall under the national jurisdiction of the market; in this case, I'm assuming the NYSE, the SEC and therefore the IRS. I'll check the OECD, but I'm pretty sure such that the way it'll work.

There is no restriction where the shares can be listed, even then they can trade in overseas markets as well. I'm pretty sure that your shares will be reported where you hold your account, Singapore in this guys case.

[logroller]

There is no restriction where the shares can be listed, even then they can trade in overseas markets as well. I'm pretty sure that your shares will be reported where you hold your account, Singapore in this guys case.
Is severin listing his c-corp shares on foreign markets?
Or more specifically, did he list them prior to the s-corp IPO announcement?
Theres a regulatory 1year period where trades can't be registered, I believe. Any conversion to equity during that that period or its not recognized by the US as having happened. The shares, even if they were traded, would still ,technically, be severin's. I can't imagine why a foreign investor would take on such a risk.

[Wind Song]

God forbid rich people have to do their share in paying taxes.

[logroller]

God forbid rich people have to do their share in paying taxes.

God forbid all people respect the mechanism by which real growth occurs:poke:

[Wind Song]

God forbid all people respect the mechanism by which real growth occurs:poke:


God forbid liberals and conservatives could debate what is and isn't good for our country.

[logroller]

God forbid liberals and conservatives could debate what is and isn't good for our country.
God forbid we could debate without reverting to talking points.

[Wind Song]

God forbid we could debate without reverting to talking points.


God forbid we ever pretend to be actual people instead of fucking pixels.

[logroller]

God forbid we ever pretend to be actual people instead of fucking pixels.
Did you mean to post this in the child porn thread?

What insight could you offer on the tax liability of s-corp conversion of equity by foreign investors?

[Wind Song]

Did you mean to post this in the child porn thread?

What insight could you offer on the tax liability of s-corp conversion of equity by foreign investors?


.

[tailfins]

God forbid we ever pretend to be actual people instead of trucking pixels.

If you DON'T look at it as pixels, you will just be putting yourself in a bad mood. It's not worth it.

[Wind Song]

If you DON'T look at it as pixels, you will just be putting yourself in a bad mood. It's not worth it.

It's not worth it, period.

[tailfins]

God forbid rich people have to do their share in paying taxes.

How do you define "their share"? The top 10% of earners paid 70% of Federal Income Tax.

Bill Clinton just said raising taxes on the middle class will be necessary to balance the budget

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76326.html

[logroller]

It's not worth it, period.

It can be worth it; it's worth it to me to discuss the OP. if its not worth it to you, well that's fine; but it seems unfair to me that you'd post something, then edit out, then claim its not worth it. You wanna insert witticisms into a debate, that's fine too; but calling me an asshole because I outwit you seems disingenuous to whatever your intentions may be(excepting outright derailment)

[fj1200]

Is severin listing his c-corp shares on foreign markets?
Or more specifically, did he list them prior to the s-corp IPO announcement?
Theres a regulatory 1year period where trades can't be registered, I believe. Any conversion to equity during that that period or its not recognized by the US as having happened. The shares, even if they were traded, would still ,technically, be severin's. I can't imagine why a foreign investor would take on such a risk.

I don't think any of that is of issue. I'm talking about him trading the shares when they are able to be traded. From what I gathered from the story he needs to pay an exit tax based on some nebulous value last September. At that point his taxable nature is based on his residency.

[fj1200]

God forbid rich people have to do their share in paying taxes.

Who is not paying their share?


God forbid liberals and conservatives could debate what is and isn't good for our country.

Is it good for the country to create onerous tax regulations that encourage people to give up their citizenship based on tax policy?

[Wind Song]

How do you define "their share"? The top 10% of earners paid 70% of Federal Income Tax.

Bill Clinton just said raising taxes on the middle class will be necessary to balance the budget

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76326.html

The Bush tax cuts aren't fair to the rest of us.

[fj1200]

The Bush tax cuts aren't fair to the rest of us.

How so? the Bush tax cuts eliminated many middle class from the tax rolls and the share of taxes paid by the "rich" climbed even higher.

[Wind Song]

How so? the Bush tax cuts eliminated many middle class from the tax rolls and the share of taxes paid by the "rich" climbed even higher.

Are you rich? Why do you defend the rich? Bush protected the rich at the cost of the rest of us.

[SassyLady]

The Bush tax cuts aren't fair to the rest of us.

Please back this up with facts, instead of just posting a talking point.

[tailfins]

The Bush tax cuts aren't fair to the rest of us.

Does that include the lowering of the bottom rate from 15% to 10% and raising the child tax credit?

[Wind Song]

Please back this up with facts, instead of just posting a talking point.


No, I'm not in the mood for a lot of research. I'll let you all just high five each other in agreement.

[logroller]

No, I'm not in the mood for a lot of research.

Youre ignorant.

[fj1200]

Are you rich? Why do you defend the rich? Bush protected the rich at the cost of the rest of us.

Define "rich," But no. How am I defending the rich when I identify stupid tax laws with poor incentives? Can you substantiate how he "protected" the rich at the "cost" of the rest of us?

[Wind Song]

Youre ignorant.

I'm resting. I have a full schedule ahead of me starting in 45 minutes and pounding it out on the economy with you guys is EXTRA work.

[fj1200]

No, I'm not in the mood for a lot of research. I'll let you all just high five each other in agreement.

So you're OK with parroting the statements of others?

[SassyLady]

No, I'm not in the mood for a lot of research. I'll let you all just high five each other in agreement.

You are too tired to back up your talking points? Or is it that you know what you said is a bunch of "hog wash"?

[Wind Song]

I'm resting.

[logroller]

I'm resting. I have a full schedule ahead of me starting in 45 minutes and pounding it out on the economy with you guys is EXTRA work.

Like debating medical standards on transvaginal ultrasound procedures prior to abortions is part of my daily grind...I still took the time to back up my position when requested.

[Wind Song]

Like debating medical standards on transvaginal ultrasound procedures prior to abortions is part of my daily grind...I still took the time to back up my position when requested.

Good for you. I'm taking it easy.

[logroller]

You are too tired to back up your talking points? Or is it that you know what you said is a bunch of "hog wash"?

Asking her to back up her talking points with supportive data is like asking superman to carry a load of Kryptonite.

[logroller]

Good for you. I'm taking it easy.

ignorant AND LAZY....vote Democrat

I think I just coined this elections catch phrase:laugh2:

[Wind Song]

Asking her to back up her talking points with supportive data is like asking superman to carry a load of Kryptonite.

I have a right to my opinion. It does not have to be supported by facts every second. I have other things going on right now, and researching facts on the economy isn't at the top of my list.

[logroller]

I have a right to my opinion. It does not have to be supported by facts every second. I have other things going on right now, and researching facts on the economy isn't at the top of my list.

It never is with you. If its not subjective bullshit, you don't get it, EVER! I've even presented facts to you on subjects, you shy away.

If facts aren't on your list of things to do, then stay the fuck out of conversations which are discussing them.

[ConHog]

The Bush tax cuts aren't fair to the rest of us.

Psst 47% of Americans pay NOTHING in income tax, not one thin red dime.

Give me ANY explanation of how that is fair to the other 53% of us, THEN we will talk about fair.

[ConHog]

I have a right to my opinion. It does not have to be supported by facts every second. I have other things going on right now, and researching facts on the economy isn't at the top of my list.

Then the answer is obvious. Don't post when you don't have time to back up your opinions with facts.

I mean if you want to be taken seriously as a poster Sky you have to act serious.

Everyone else here manages to do so at least on occasion.......

[fj1200]

Chapter II: The typical legislative response.


Senators to Unveil the 'Ex-Patriot Act' to Respond to Facebook's Saverin's Tax 'Scheme'
The senators will call Saverin's move an "outrage" and will outline their plan to re-impose taxes on expatriates like Saverin even after they flee the United States and take up residence in a foreign country. Their proposal would also impose a mandatory 30 percent tax on the capital gains of anybody who renounces their U.S. citizenship.
The plan would bar individuals like Saverin from ever reentering the United States again.
http://news.yahoo.com/senators-unveil-ex-patriot-act-respond-facebooks-saverins-110209401--abc-news-politics.html

Rather than address the mis-incentives that are embedded in the tax code, let's attempt to legislate behavior after the fact.