Rhode Island Considers First-Of-Its Kind ‘Homeless Bill Of Rights’

[tailfins]

http://connecticut.cbslocal.com/2012/05/14/rhode-island-considers-first-of-its-kind-homeless-bill-of-rights/

[ConHog]

glad to see they are working on the serious issues

/sarcasm.

[tailfins]

glad to see they are working on the serious issues

/sarcasm.

With RI's 11+% unemployment rate, I'm OK with this within reason. Why should cops hassle people just for being homeless? They have to be SOMEWHERE. In Tennessee where I used to live, that place was jail. They show the "Christian" love rooted in their culture by locking them up and helping them with a criminal record.

[fj1200]

With RI's 11+% unemployment rate, I'm OK with this within reason. Why should cops hassle people just for being homeless? They have to be SOMEWHERE. In Tennessee where I used to live, that place was jail. They show the "Christian" love rooted in their culture by locking them up and helping them with a criminal record.

This is really called the Lawyers Full Employment Act, or should be...


It’s also designed to be enforceable, so homeless people who believe they’ve faced discrimination have grounds to sue.

[tailfins]

This is really called the Lawyers Full Employment Act, or should be...

Hopefully, someone will amend it to cap the damages. And to think Linc Chafee was once a Republican.

[ConHog]

You know what's really pathetic? If our government would stop funding stupid shit like $20M frog laryngitis studies we would have enough money to make sure everyone who wanted one had a roof over their heads.

Do these pandering shit head politicians ever think about THAT?

[Missileman]

You know what's really pathetic? If our government would stop funding stupid shit like $20M frog laryngitis studies we would have enough money to make sure everyone who wanted one had a roof over their heads.

Do these pandering shit head politicians ever think about THAT?

Giving people a roof over their head isn't something I want to pay for any more than a frog study.

[ConHog]

Giving people a roof over their head isn't something I want to pay for any more than a frog study.


True, but if I have to pick a lesser of two evils. Oh, and I certainly didn't mean buy everyone a house.

[Kathianne]

True, but if I have to pick a lesser of two evils. Oh, and I certainly didn't mean buy everyone a house.

Own up, you do want the US taxpayer to pay for everyone to have a place to live.

[ConHog]

Own up, you do want the US taxpayer to pay for everyone to have a place to live.




No, but I am okay with subsidized low income housing (read apartments) and would be okay with expanded programs IF we had the money

Sorry if being okay with making sure people had access to affordable housing is not conservative enough for you.

[Missileman]

No, but I am okay with subsidized low income housing (read apartments) and would be okay with expanded programs IF we had the money

Sorry if being okay with making sure people had access to affordable housing is not conservative enough for you.

Affordable housing, affordable transportation, affordable daycare, affordable phone service, affordable entertainment, and on and on...where's it end?

[ConHog]

Affordable housing, affordable transportation, affordable daycare, affordable phone service, affordable entertainment, and on and on...where's it end?

you do realize that I am talking about essentials right? Don't try to lump me in with the free cell phone crowd, because I'm not one of them, AND I have steadfastly said that I am for abolishing welfare in favor of as another person said "workfare"

[tailfins]

Giving people a roof over their head isn't something I want to pay for any more than a frog study.

They have to be SOMEWHERE. Would you rather pay to keep them in jail and later pay their way some more when their criminal record makes them unemployable?

[Missileman]

you do realize that I am talking about essentials right? Don't try to lump me in with the free cell phone crowd, because I'm not one of them, AND I have steadfastly said that I am for abolishing welfare in favor of as another person said "workfare"

The free home phone line started as an "essential". It was expanded to cell phones by people who don't give a shit how much of "our" money they blow through. If you set a precedent that everyone has a right to a government furnished residence, those other things I listed, and likely a whole lot more, won't be far behind.

[tailfins]

The free home phone line started as an "essential". It was expanded to cell phones by people who don't give a shit how much of "our" money they blow through. If you set a precedent that everyone has a right to a government furnished residence, those other things I listed, and likely a whole lot more, won't be far behind.

Why not bring back the county poorhouse? Where would you put the homeless? If they are alive, they have to be SOMEWHERE.

[Missileman]

They have to be SOMEWHERE.

In this country, with maybe a few exceptions, a person is homeless and un-employed of their own volition or actions. I see no reason I need to take money away from my goals and aspirations to accomodate them.

[ConHog]

Why not bring back the county poorhouse? Where would you put the homeless? If they are alive, they have to be SOMEWHERE.



so let's just kill them. Problem solved.

[Missileman]

so let's just kill them. Problem solved.

Or we could get every bleeding heart to adopt one and take care of them from their own monies.

[ConHog]

In this country, with maybe a few exceptions, a person is homeless and un-employed of their own volition or actions. I see no reason I need to take money away from my goals and aspirations to accomodate them.

There are FAR more exceptions than you want to acknowledge.

[Kathianne]

No, but I am okay with subsidized low income housing (read apartments) and would be okay with expanded programs IF we had the money

Sorry if being okay with making sure people had access to affordable housing is not conservative enough for you.

As I said, pay for everyone to have a place to live. No, that's not conservative, not by a long shot!

[tailfins]

In this country, with maybe a few exceptions, a person is homeless and un-employed of their own volition or actions. I see no reason I need to take money away from my goals and aspirations to accomodate them.

That's not an option. You pay one way or the other. Some process must be in place. It doesn't have to be much, but the alternative to some kind of roof over people's head is they wind up incarcerated. Getting popped for even a misdemeanor for trespassing or disorderly conduct cements the joblessness and homelessness. I'm not advocating apartments, just a shelter that no one is turned away from and has good security.

[Kathianne]

There are FAR more exceptions than you want to acknowledge.

Actually while the numbers may seem big, the reasons aren't or the percentages. The mentally ill, those suffering from PTSD, wars and families with kids for X number of months.

Exclude alchies and druggies outside of programs.

[ConHog]

As I said, pay for everyone to have a place to live. No, that's not conservative, not by a long shot!

you mean it's not conservative by YOUR definition.

[Kathianne]

you mean it's not conservative by YOUR definition.

Yeah, neither are state owned businesses, but you define however you wish.

[ConHog]

Yeah, neither are state owned businesses, but you define however you wish.

Look, this little day dream that everyone who wants it should have everything they need and if not then there are enough people volunteering to help is just stupid.

Reality tells us that isn't the case.

[Kathianne]

Look, this little day dream that everyone who wants it should have everything they need and if not then there are enough people volunteering to help is just stupid.

Reality tells us that isn't the case.

What does this mean? That there are some that should be without shelter? You're changing your position? :dunno:

[ConHog]

What does this mean? That there are some that should be without shelter? You're changing your position? :dunno:


I'm saying everyone needs ACCESS to shelter. If that means a few of your tax dollars go towards shelter for those less fortunate, tough shit.

[tailfins]

What does this mean? That there are some that should be without shelter? You're changing your position? :dunno:

I can read him loud and clear. What I read into it is that hard work does NOT overcome all problems. Furthermore, not enough people volunteer to cover the homeless problem. I moved to Tennessee thinking that being around "God's people" was the right thing to do when down on your luck. I have never met pettier, more judgmental, mean, stingy, cliquish people in all my life. I was homeless in Tennessee and darn near got arrested. I moved to Massachusetts because people with minor children are guaranteed shelter. I only needed a three month helping hand until getting hired by Harvard. They won't disclose it, but it seems they hired me as a disadvantaged (read unemployed) person. God may be the same God, but the people that claim to believe in him are not. Massachusetts made money on that deal because I pay $5K per year in state income tax.

Bostonians are friendlier, more welcoming and helpful than "Volunteer" staters. I'm good enough for Harvard, but not good enough for the IT community around Nashville. Maybe marrying your sister is a resume enhancement down there.

[Kathianne]

Look, this little day dream that everyone who wants it should have everything they need and if not then there are enough people volunteering to help is just stupid.

Reality tells us that isn't the case.


I'm saying everyone needs ACCESS to shelter. If that means a few of your tax dollars go towards shelter for those less fortunate, tough shit.

So the first means, what?

[ConHog]

I can read him loud and clear. What I read into it is that hard work does NOT overcome all problems. Furthermore, not enough people volunteer to cover the homeless problem. I moved to Tennessee thinking that being around "God's people" was the right thing to do when down on your luck. I have never met pettier, more judgmental, mean, stingy people in all my life. I was homeless in Tennessee and darn near got arrested. I moved to Massachusetts because people with minor children are guaranteed shelter. I only needed a three month helping hand until getting hired by Harvard. They won't disclose it, but it seems they hired me as a disadvantaged (read unemployed) person. God may be the same God, but the people that claim to believe in him are not. Massachusetts made money on that deal because I pay $5K per year in state income tax.


So the first means, what?

It seems that the fact that you didn't understand what I was saying is on YOU, not me.

[Kathianne]

I can read him loud and clear. What I read into it is that hard work does NOT overcome all problems. Furthermore, not enough people volunteer to cover the homeless problem. I moved to Tennessee thinking that being around "God's people" was the right thing to do when down on your luck. I have never met pettier, more judgmental, mean, stingy people in all my life. I was homeless in Tennessee and darn near got arrested. I moved to Massachusetts because people with minor children are guaranteed shelter. I only needed a three month helping hand until getting hired by Harvard. They won't disclose it, but it seems they hired me as a disadvantaged (read unemployed) person. God may be the same God, but the people that claim to believe in him are not. Massachusetts made money on that deal because I pay $5K per year in state income tax.

I hear you on that example, though I really wish I didn't. If you get my meaning. I've been in the place of needing a bridge, I was for them before I needed it. However, I stood in lines with those making a career of such.

Not good for the folks, not good for the state, not good for the country.

[ConHog]

I hear you on that example, though I really wish I didn't. If you get my meaning. I've been in the place of needing a bridge, I was for them before I needed it. However, I stood in lines with those making a career of such.

Not good for the folks, not good for the state, not good for the country.

That is another matter entirely. People who are welfare lifers should be kicked off the dole. I realize it might never be done, but THAT should be our goal , not just the elimination of the programs.

[SassyLady]

Or we could get every bleeding heart to adopt one and take care of them from their own monies.

I "adopted" one in February. She is 59, homeless and had lived out of her vehicle for over 9 months. When it got so cold she gave up and went to a shelter. She now lives with me. She now has a roof over her head, healthy food, clean clothes. She is in a warm, safe environment and is healing her spirit by helping keep this huge place clean and organized.

Guess what ... she is an extremely progressive liberal. We don't talk about politics often, but we know that we can put all that aside in order to have a mutually, beneficial relationship.

I would recommend it to others.

[logroller]

Affordable housing, affordable transportation, affordable daycare, affordable phone service, affordable entertainment, and on and on...where's it end?

When we can't afford it anymore.

[ConHog]

I "adopted" one in February. She is 59, homeless and had lived out of her vehicle for over 9 months. When it got so cold she gave up and went to a shelter. She now lives with me. She now has a roof over her head, healthy food, clean clothes. She is in a warm, safe environment and is healing her spirit by helping keep this huge place clean and organized.

Guess what ... she is an extremely progressive liberal. We don't talk about politics often, but we know that we can put all that aside in order to have a mutually, beneficial relationship.

I would recommend it to others.



My wife and I have been raising another couple's child since he was 15. He's almost 20 now. Got him through high school and he's going to get his college degree if it kills him.

Funny thing, his mom kicked him out of the house when he was 15, and was nowhere to be seen when he graduated HS but some how she managed to contact him when he got a few dollars in his pocket from working. He was kindly informed that if he gave his mother $1 he would be looking for a new place to live.

What the fuck is wrong with people, who kicks their kid out of the house and then later tries to bum money off them?

[Missileman]

I "adopted" one in February. She is 59, homeless and had lived out of her vehicle for over 9 months. When it got so cold she gave up and went to a shelter. She now lives with me. She now has a roof over her head, healthy food, clean clothes. She is in a warm, safe environment and is healing her spirit by helping keep this huge place clean and organized.

Guess what ... she is an extremely progressive liberal. We don't talk about politics often, but we know that we can put all that aside in order to have a mutually, beneficial relationship.

I would recommend it to others.

And not a tax dollar involved at all...go figure.

Seriously though, I commend your generosity.

[Missileman]

When we can't afford it anymore.

Redistribute until everyone's broke?

[ConHog]

And not a tax dollar involved at all...go figure.

Seriously though, I commend your generosity.



My son's best friend since they were in grade school. The dad went to prison for drugs and the mom moved in with a boyfriend and told the son he wasn't welcome to come with them.

He had actually been living in the local city park for some time and my wife happened to find out about it and went and got him, I came home from work one day and had a second teenage son.

I am just grateful that we were in a position to help him; but there aren't enough people who are in that position to help everyone who needs the help.

[SassyLady]

My son's best friend since they were in grade school. The dad went to prison for drugs and the mom moved in with a boyfriend and told the son he wasn't welcome to come with them.

He had actually been living in the local city park for some time and my wife happened to find out about it and went and got him, I came home from work one day and had a second teenage son.

I am just grateful that we were in a position to help him; but there aren't enough people who are in that position to help everyone who needs the help.

Thank you for doing this for this child. It will make a world of difference some day.

[ConHog]

Thank you for doing this for this child. It will make a world of difference some day.



already has, he graduated HS, when he was definitely not on track to do so, and he's in college instead of in the cell next to his dad , yes his piece of shit dad even had him selling drugs ; found that after the fact I'm pretty sure he never told me b/c he knew I'd have killed his dad.

[Kathianne]

My son's best friend since they were in grade school. The dad went to prison for drugs and the mom moved in with a boyfriend and told the son he wasn't welcome to come with them.

He had actually been living in the local city park for some time and my wife happened to find out about it and went and got him, I came home from work one day and had a second teenage son.

I am just grateful that we were in a position to help him; but there aren't enough people who are in that position to help everyone who needs the help.

I'm glad for the boy and your generosity. Brings home the fact that it's all local. Truth is, in the liberal view, the boy would have ended up with the benevolent state. How do you all think that would work out?

[ConHog]

I'm glad for the boy and your generosity. Brings home the fact that it's all local. Truth is, in the liberal view, the boy would have ended up with the benevolent state. How do you all think that would work out?

It's a hard question who's answer is more complex than " let local people take care of it" , there just are NOT enough people who can. I mean it's expensive. You've had teenagers, you know that. Food, clothes, higher utilities, school supplies, birthday parties, extra christmas gift, he got the same new car for high school graduation that my own son got, helping him with college.....

So what do we do? Just tell those people "sorry, there is no one volunteering to help you, so tough shit?"

Ideally, I would love to see local charities receiving federal funds to help local people, I will agree with that.

[Kathianne]

It's a hard question who's answer is more complex than " let local people take care of it" , there just are NOT enough people who can. I mean it's expensive. You've had teenagers, you know that. Food, clothes, higher utilities, school supplies, birthday parties, extra christmas gift, he got the same new car for high school graduation that my own son got, helping him with college.....

So what do we do? Just tell those people "sorry, there is no one volunteering to help you, so tough shit?"

Ideally, I would love to see local charities receiving federal funds to help local people, I will agree with that.

I had more meager situation than yourself, took in a girl for a year. She wasn't looking for a leg up, rather a place to crash. She stole from me and from my daughter, who had encouraged me to let her move in. Still, when I kicked her out, it wasn't until I found another place, also private but with county oversite, to house her. She was 19 at the time. She is in jail presently, we've not lost contact.

These situations don't take federal funds, if the situation is working, there are agencies and even neighbors that will help out if the need arises.

[ConHog]

I had more meager situation than yourself, took in a girl for a year. She wasn't looking for a leg up, rather a place to crash. She stole from me and from my daughter, who had encouraged me to let her move in. Still, when I kicked her out, it wasn't until I found another place, also private but with county oversite, to house her. She was 19 at the time. She is in jail presently, we've not lost contact.

These situations don't take federal funds, if the situation is working, there are agencies and even neighbors that will help out if the need arises.


Sorry it didn't work out. It's rewarding in a different way than with your own child to help someone achieve.

But again, you are not acknowledging that without government money there is NOT enough help for everyone who needs it.

[Abbey Marie]

Affordable housing, affordable transportation, affordable daycare, affordable phone service, affordable entertainment, and on and on...where's it end?

Yeah, let's not forget those free cell phones. :rolleyes:

[ConHog]

Yeah, let's not forget those free cell phones. :rolleyes:

Oh yeah, forgot to add that to the list, he got a cell phone to.

[Missileman]

I had more meager situation than yourself, took in a girl for a year. She wasn't looking for a leg up, rather a place to crash. She stole from me and from my daughter, who had encouraged me to let her move in. Still, when I kicked her out, it wasn't until I found another place, also private but with county oversite, to house her. She was 19 at the time. She is in jail presently, we've not lost contact.

These situations don't take federal funds, if the situation is working, there are agencies and even neighbors that will help out if the need arises.

Exactly. I'd wager that the number of folks who are completely without any family or friends who might be relied on rather than the government is miniscule.

[Abbey Marie]

Exactly. I'd wager that the number of folks who are completely without any family or friends who might be relied on rather than the government is miniscule.

When we know someone/something else will take care of things we tend to do far less. I see a cycle- people do less because the gov't will do it. The gov't does more, so people do even less.
In the past, before these gov't safety nets, I think people took care of one another much more. The irony is, the gov't is just using our money against our will.

I think it's telling that at least 2 people on this one board are doing exactly what Missleman is saying would happen if the gov't got out of the business.

ETA: Make that 3 people.

[ConHog]

When we know someone/something else will take care of things we tend to do far less. I see a cycle- people do less because the gov't will do it. The gov't does more, so people do even less.
In the past, before these gov't safety nets, I think people took care of one another much more. The irony is, the gov't is just using our money against our will.



Umm, that simply isn't true.. Do you REALLY want to see orphanages make a come back, just for example?

[Missileman]

Umm, that simply isn't true.. Do you REALLY want to see orphanages make a come back, just for example?

Foster care of children is a whole different matter than foster care of able-bodied adults.

[Kathianne]

Umm, that simply isn't true.. Do you REALLY want to see orphanages make a come back, just for example?

As opposed to a foster system, that often sexually or physically abuses their charges? Yes, replace them. Orphanages were of a size to be monitored.

[Abbey Marie]

Umm, that simply isn't true.. Do you REALLY want to see orphanages make a come back, just for example?

How is it simply not true? Orphanages are the perfect example of people who have no family. There will always be some people who aren't helped. That doesn't mean that my statement isn't true for most people.

[Kathianne]

Sorry it didn't work out. It's rewarding in a different way than with your own child to help someone achieve.

But again, you are not acknowledging that without government money there is NOT enough help for everyone who needs it.

If I could do it for a year, nearly anyone could. I was making less than $24k and had my own 3 kids in high school/middle school, at that time. All of 12 years ago, yeah $24k wasn't really a living wage then either; not for 5.

[ConHog]

Foster care of children is a whole different matter than foster care of able-bodied adults.


Agreed. And I don't advocate foster adults. I advocate assistance, TEMPORARY assistance. .

[Missileman]

Agreed. And I don't advocate foster adults. I advocate assistance, TEMPORARY assistance. .

As an example, a quarter million people are losing unemployment benefits this month as they've reached the 79 week limit. How much more assistance do you figure these people are entitled to?

[Abbey Marie]

As an example, a quarter million people are losing unemployment benefits this month as they've reached the 79 week limit. How much more assistance do you figure these people are entitled to?

Eventually, the well will run dry. The money tree will stop producing. Choose your truism. :cool:

[ConHog]

As an example, a quarter million people are losing unemployment benefits this month as they've reached the 79 week limit. How much more assistance do you figure these people are entitled to?

Another program that is fucked up. So we agree things should be local with some federal funding.

[Missileman]

Another program that is fucked up. So we agree things should be local with some federal funding.

I'm not sure we agree on anything, but I am sure you just ducked a question. A significant portion of that quarter million are going to be hurting from the loss of their unemployment benefits. They've been "assisted" for 79 weeks. Do we end their "temporary" fostering and make them fend for themselves and say "tough shit" if they're unable to?

[tailfins]

I'm not sure we agree on anything, but I am sure you just ducked a question. A significant portion of that quarter million are going to be hurting from the loss of their unemployment benefits. They've been "assisted" for 79 weeks. Do we end their "temporary" fostering and make them fend for themselves and say "tough shit" if they're unable to?

They get way too much independence. I'm all for giving people help as long as they need it, but there's a point where it should be concluded that these are no longer functioning adults and have to submit to supervision to get benefits. I wonder how many would discover they really don't need the benefits when they have to report to a social worker every week.

[Missileman]

They get way too much independence. I'm all for giving people help as long as they need it, but there's a point where it should be concluded that these are no longer functioning adults and have to submit to supervision to get benefits. I wonder how many would discover they really don't need the benefits when they have to report to a social worker every week.

You would send them to a "social worker" weekly...I would send them to a street cleaning supervisor daily.

[tailfins]

You would send them to a "social worker" weekly...I would send them to a street cleaning supervisor daily.

So you would bring back the WPA (We Piddle Around) or the Civilian Conservation Corps?

[Missileman]

So you would bring back the WPA (We Piddle Around) or the Civilian Conservation Corps?

More simply and more accurately, I would stop giving free rides.

[tailfins]

More simply and more accurately, I would stop giving free rides.

That still leaves unanswered the question: Where can a homeless person be without being harassed by the police?

[ConHog]

More simply and more accurately, I would stop giving free rides.

Then i dont see what your issue is with me on this topic. I dont favor free rides eitber. I think anyone on welfare should earn it even if theyre just picking up trash on the side of the road

[SassyLady]

I'm not sure we agree on anything, but I am sure you just ducked a question. A significant portion of that quarter million are going to be hurting from the loss of their unemployment benefits. They've been "assisted" for 79 weeks. Do we end their "temporary" fostering and make them fend for themselves and say "tough shit" if they're unable to?

I know someone that applied for a job at Home Depot .... said he would make less than unemployment, therefore, he wasn't really all that excited. When the government is paying people more to stay at home than they would make getting a job.....well, that's not helping.

[Missileman]

That still leaves unanswered the question: Where can a homeless person be without being harassed by the police?

Putting them in a shelter overnight doesn't make them any less homeless. I don't think concentration camps are the answer either.

[tailfins]

Putting them in a shelter overnight doesn't make them any less homeless. I don't think concentration camps are the answer either.

The shelters fill up and run out of space. What then happens is that they begin looking for a place to stop walking. However they can't because just about anywhere they stop walking, they get hassled by the cops. That's the reality and the point of my original post. So if someone cannot even stop walking, let alone shower there's no way they will be in good enough condition to pass a job interview. What's the difference between an environment rigged to get them arrested and putting them in concentration camps? Once they have been arrested, they have a criminal record which further impedes employment.

As I said before, increased supervision will solve a myriad of the public assistance problems. Those who are not fit for employment can be made so and those who don't really need the benefits won't submit to the supervision.

[ConHog]

The shelters fill up and run out of space. What then happens is that they begin looking for a place to stop walking. However they can't because just about anywhere they stop walking, they get hassled by the cops. That's the reality and the point of my original post. So if someone cannot even stop walking, let alone shower there's no way they will be in good enough condition to pass a job interview. What's the difference between an environment rigged to get them arrested and putting them in concentration camps? Once they have been arrested, they have a criminal record which further impedes employment.

Reality is inconsequential compared to being able to say one is "conservative."

[fj1200]

But again, you are not acknowledging that without government money there is NOT enough help for everyone who needs it.

What you may not be acknowledging is that a lack of government funds may have been sufficient prior to decades of government misincentives and that this should be a local, or barring that, a state issue. The folly is thinking that only with Federal dollars can this problem be fixed.

[fj1200]

Vega had just finished a bologna sandwich at a weekly soup kitchen set up in the Rhode Island Statehouse, where lawmakers are now considering first-of-its kind legislation that would create a “Homeless Bill of Rights” intended to give people like Vega greater protection from discrimination.
The bill would specifically prohibit law enforcement, health care workers, potential landlords or employers from treating homeless people unfairly because of their housing status. The measure’s sponsor, Sen. John Tassoni, said most Americans probably aren’t aware of the daily discrimination faced by homeless people.
http://connecticut.cbslocal.com/2012/05/14/rhode-island-considers-first-of-its-kind-homeless-bill-of-rights/


The shelters fill up and run out of space. What then happens is that they begin looking for a place to stop walking. However they can't because just about anywhere they stop walking, they get hassled by the cops. That's the reality and the point of my original post. So if someone cannot even stop walking, let alone shower there's no way they will be in good enough condition to pass a job interview. What's the difference between an environment rigged to get them arrested and putting them in concentration camps? Once they have been arrested, they have a criminal record which further impedes employment.

My earlier Lawyer Full Employment Act comment earlier was a bit tongue-in-cheek but the core issue is that some legislator has, in fact, done nothing to alleviate the plight of the homeless. They now arguably have a basis for a lawsuit but they are still in the same situation as before. We can all agree that they shouldn't be hassled by the cops but to create some "right" that they didn't have before won't be effective.

[darin]

I "adopted" one in February. She is 59, homeless and had lived out of her vehicle for over 9 months. When it got so cold she gave up and went to a shelter. She now lives with me. She now has a roof over her head, healthy food, clean clothes. She is in a warm, safe environment and is healing her spirit by helping keep this huge place clean and organized.

Guess what ... she is an extremely progressive liberal. We don't talk about politics often, but we know that we can put all that aside in order to have a mutually, beneficial relationship.

I would recommend it to others.

Why don't you move into my house and we can start a mutually beneficial relationship? :D


I know someone that applied for a job at Home Depot .... said he would make less than unemployment, therefore, he wasn't really all that excited. When the government is paying people more to stay at home than they would make getting a job.....well, that's not helping.

So -

The problem is human nature.


Your acquaintance's short-sightedness is symptomatic of the problem with hand-OUTs.

Initially, your local home depot's $12/hr is likely less than unemployment; however thinking strategically HomeDepot work is better for the person short-term, and better for the person, financially, long-term.

[ConHog]

What you may not be acknowledging is that a lack of government funds may have been sufficient prior to decades of government misincentives and that this should be a local, or barring that, a state issue. The folly is thinking that only with Federal dollars can this problem be fixed.

Oh, I agree. It COULD be done locally, or at least on the state level, IF taxes and such were structured differently so that the federal government was pulling less out of local and state economies.

HOWEVER, realistically, we both know what the chances of that happening are. So, in the alternative I would prefer that the government use MY money to actually help people rather than study frogs or build bridges to nowhere or other such nonsense.

Further, since most people are stupid, petty, dishonest, greedy fucks I doubt the generosity of my fellow man. I feel sure that even though there is plenty of government waste going on that more people are helped WITH the government programs than would be helped without them.

In my list of complaints about how the federal government wastes money, welfare is way down the list.

[fj1200]

So, in the alternative I would prefer that the government use MY money to actually help people...

... that more people are helped WITH the government programs than would be helped without them.

In my list of complaints about how the federal government wastes money, welfare is way down the list.

Those are the debatable assumptions. I don't think anybody here would have a problem with government providing a safety net, but it has become a way of life for some and that can't be ignored or its genesis.

[Abbey Marie]

Why don't you move into my house and we can start a mutually beneficial relationship? :D



So -

The problem is human nature.


Your acquaintance's short-sightedness is symptomatic of the problem with hand-OUTs.

Initially, your local home depot's $12/hr is likely less than unemployment; however thinking strategically HomeDepot work is better for the person short-term, and better for the person, financially, long-term.

A body at rest tends to stay at rest. ;)

[ConHog]

Those are the debatable assumptions. I don't think anybody here would have a problem with government providing a safety net, but it has become a way of life for some and that can't be ignored or its genesis.


You're right, it can't be ignored, and shouldn't be. I think I've made my position clear visa vi welfare lifers. That , to me, is an entirely different subject than should there be temporary help when needed.


I'm sorry I've heard too many stories of people who had a situation and needed some help for 6 months or a year maybe and ended up turning their entire situation around which would have been entirely impossible without the help to believe that the system needs to go.

And once again, I acknowledge there is major abuse and agree that it should be rooted out.

[Missileman]

Those are the debatable assumptions. I don't think anybody here would have a problem with government providing a safety net, but it has become a way of life for some and that can't be ignored or its genesis.

All that just so you can call yourself "comservative"? [/sarcasm off]