HS Student accused of hate speech for Jesus shirt

[tailfins]

This is one reason why there should not be hate crimes legislation:
http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/school-says-jesus-shirt-is-hate-speech.html

[revelarts]

This is one reason why there should not be hate crimes legislation:
http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/school-says-jesus-shirt-is-hate-speech.html

D@mn.

[SassyLady]

No dress code saying no t-shirts ...just anything to do with Jesus because that word offends? Seriously???

And to call it hate speech?

:dunno:

[ConHog]

How stupid

[Noir]

First off the t-shirt is not hate speech.

Secondly the t-shirt is wrong, as it states an opinion as a fact. Just because someone is of the opinion that my life is wasted without their god, doesn't make it so.

Thirdly I think it says more about their opinion of their own lives, I mean, to have the opinion that a life without Jesus is wasted, is to say that things like your children, wife, friends, and other loved ones etc are just waste, and that only their god makes their life non-wasteful.

[Wind Song]

Typical Fox News Culture War Propaganda

Look at the effect the story has on people who've posted on this thread. It's angered Christians, (who are the majority religion in America), and it makes them feel as though they're being discriminated against.

Consider what the student's motivation was for wearing the shirt in the first place. Kids like to wear provacative T shirts. I wouldn't call it hate speech, but I question the appropriateness of drawing that much attention to yourself for religious reasons.

[PostmodernProphet]

I mean, to have the opinion that a life without Jesus is wasted, is to say that things like your children, wife, friends, and other loved ones etc are just waste, and that only their god makes their life non-wasteful.

precisely.....did you have a question?....

[Wind Song]

precisely.....did you have a question?....


No, but you have all the answers.

[Howard Roark]

Yea... calling this hate speech is a tad over the top. I can understand the concern, as it denegrates those who don't follow Christ.

Hate speech?

[Wind Song]

Yea... calling this hate speech is a tad over the top. I can understand the concern, as it denegrates those who don't follow Christ.

Hate speech?


No, it's more like religious advertising than anything else. It doesn't seem appropriate in a public school setting. What I've noticed is that some Christians feel that anywhere they are they have a right to push their religion in anyway they see fit. When they get restricted in anyway they feel "oppressed". It's laughable considering that they are the majority religion.

[Howard Roark]

No, it's more like religious advertising than anything else. It doesn't seem appropriate in a public school setting. What I've noticed is that some Christians feel that anywhere they are they have a right to push their religion in anyway they see fit. When they get restricted in anyway they feel "oppressed". It's laughable considering that they are the majority religion.

Christians are a diverse group. Some do exactly as you say, while others are so happy to have found Christ, they wish to share the joy with everyone.

This happened in Canada. In this country, schools try to keep anything that could create a rift out of the school. I guess if you begin to allow one person to wear their opinions on their clothing, it could turn into a problem in areas with gang issues. Crazy as it sounds, some schools don't allow backpacks, or certain articles of clothing at all.

[Wind Song]

Christians are a diverse group. Some do exactly as you say, while others are so happy to have found Christ, they wish to share the joy with everyone.

This happened in Canada. In this country, schools try to keep anything that could create a rift out of the school. I guess if you begin to allow one person to wear their opinions on their clothing, it could turn into a problem in areas with gang issues. Crazy as it sounds, some schools don't allow backpacks, or certain articles of clothing at all.

True. Christians are a diverse group. One could say that about any religion. This wouldn't have happened in my county. The schools here are too worried about gangs and bullying.

[Howard Roark]

True. Christians are a diverse group. One could say that about any religion. This wouldn't have happened in my county. The schools here are too worried about gangs and bullying.

The shirt wouldn't have happened, or the response?

[SassyLady]

No, it's more like religious advertising than anything else. It doesn't seem appropriate in a public school setting. What I've noticed is that some Christians feel that anywhere they are they have a right to push their religion in anyway they see fit. When they get restricted in anyway they feel "oppressed". It's laughable considering that they are the majority religion.

I think it's more about freedom of speech than advertising.

[ConHog]

I think it's more about freedom of speech than advertising.




Agreed, but we MUST accept that students do not enjoy true freedom of speech. I wouldn't actually have a problem with banning Jesus shirts from schools. My main problem with things like this is

They are NEVER applied universally.It's always just certain groups that get told no

[Nukeman]

we have one school system resticting a studen wearing a slogan about his religion and in MI we have a school system that goes out of its way to not only allow the display of religious symbols but some one that can be used as a weapon.. Kind of funny that there was NO outcry from the left about the flaggrant flaunting of another religion in the faces of others. why the double standard?



A Detroit-area district says it's allowing Sikh students to wear a small, religious dagger to school, MyFoxDetroit.com reports.
The decision by the Plymouth-Canton Community Schools reverses a ban put in place in December after a fourth-grader at a Canton Township elementary school was found with a dull, 3- to 5-inch kirpan.
The kirpan represents a commitment to fight evil in the Sikh tradition. The dagger is a religious symbol that baptized Sikh males are expected to carry


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/02/01/michigan-school-district-allows-sikh-students-wear-religious-dagger-school/#ixzz1u36uI6Hz

[Noir]

I mean, to have the opinion that a life without Jesus is wasted, is to say that things like your children, wife, friends, and other loved ones etc are just waste, and that only their god makes their life non-wasteful.


precisely.....did you have a question?....

No question, just pity.

[Wind Song]

The shirt wouldn't have happened, or the response?


The shirt wouldn't have been allowed.

[Wind Song]

I think it's more about freedom of speech than advertising.


Schools aren't democratic systems. You have to follow the rules.

[DragonStryk72]

First off the t-shirt is not hate speech.

Secondly the t-shirt is wrong, as it states an opinion as a fact. Just because someone is of the opinion that my life is wasted without their god, doesn't make it so.

Thirdly I think it says more about their opinion of their own lives, I mean, to have the opinion that a life without Jesus is wasted, is to say that things like your children, wife, friends, and other loved ones etc are just waste, and that only their god makes their life non-wasteful.

Speaking as a Christian, I definitely back what Noir is saying here, but I'd like to add something for the Christians that support these sentiments: You are hurting the faith as a whole, because you are pushing people away from God with the exclusion engendered in these sorts of sayings.

If you're looking to win people to the Lord, then here's a question: Can you name a time when Jesus bludgeoned someone into believing in him? Be aware Christ never once said no one else had merit, and in fact, if you look to the parable of the Good Samaritan, specifically had a habit of pointing out the exact opposite.

[Wind Song]

Some of the people who push others away from Jesus are Christians themselves. The unforgiving, judging ones.

[ConHog]

Schools aren't democratic systems. You have to follow the rules.



This is true, but courts are VERY leery of allowing schools to just make up rules on the fly. If you have a dress code that is one thing, but if you just randomly decide "no you can't do that" that is another.

[Wind Song]

This is true, but courts are VERY leery of allowing schools to just make up rules on the fly. If you have a dress code that is one thing, but if you just randomly decide "no you can't do that" that is another.


By most school rules, that T-shirt wouldn't have passed the dress code.

[keyser soze]

This is true, but courts are VERY leery of allowing schools to just make up rules on the fly. If you have a dress code that is one thing, but if you just randomly decide "no you can't do that" that is another.
I seriously doubt it was random but I'm certain it's an effort by Faux News to rile up the base....

[Wind Song]

I seriously doubt it was random but I'm certain it's an effort by Faux News to rile up the base....

Part of their culture war trip. Murdoch profits when the people are divided.

[Nukeman]

I seriously doubt it was random but I'm certain it's an effort by Faux News to rile up the base....



3428

Ahh YOU'RE so clever, look how you changed the name of FOX to FAUX, right out of the dim playbook... Ahh how cute!!!!:lol:

[PostmodernProphet]

No, but you have all the answers.

ignored....

[PostmodernProphet]

No question, just pity.

again, wasted.....

[Wind Song]

PP cracks me up. He responds to my posts with comments that say I'm ignored. :laugh: PP I have a special name for you that goes with your intials.

[PostmodernProphet]

PP cracks me up. He responds to my posts with comments that say I'm ignored. :laugh: PP I have a special name for you that goes with your intials.

you've had plenty of "special names" for me already.....I don't like you......I don't like having to talk to you....when you address things to me I feel compelled to respond in some manner......it would be better if you did not address things to me.....since you choose to do so I will reply with "ignored".....I would have assumed you would prefer that to me reciprocating with your name calling......

[Wind Song]

you've had plenty of "special names" for me already.....I don't like you......I don't like having to talk to you....when you address things to me I feel compelled to respond in some manner......it would be better if you did not address things to me.....since you choose to do so I will reply with "ignored".....I would have assumed you would prefer that to me reciprocating with your name calling......


PP= Pickle Puss

[PostmodernProphet]

ignores the stupid bitch....

[keyser soze]

PP= Pickle Puss
repressed...LMAO...pathetic...

[SassyLady]

repressed...LMAO...pathetic...

Juvenile, LMAO!

:blah::blah:

[Nukeman]

repressed...LMAO...pathetic...Ahh look 'Kankor sore' tried to make a funny......:laugh:

[Wind Song]

Juvenile, LMAO!

:blah::blah:


Not everyone buys Mr High and Mighty's trip.

[Kathianne]

First off the t-shirt is not hate speech.

Secondly the t-shirt is wrong, as it states an opinion as a fact. Just because someone is of the opinion that my life is wasted without their god, doesn't make it so.

Thirdly I think it says more about their opinion of their own lives, I mean, to have the opinion that a life without Jesus is wasted, is to say that things like your children, wife, friends, and other loved ones etc are just waste, and that only their god makes their life non-wasteful.

I wouldn't wear that shirt, many others wouldn't either. However, by the very nature that it's on the person that chose the t-shirt shows that is that person's opinion. People have been beaten for wearing or burning things that show their opinion.

[Kathianne]

Typical Fox News Culture War Propaganda

Look at the effect the story has on people who've posted on this thread. It's angered Christians, (who are the majority religion in America), and it makes them feel as though they're being discriminated against.

Consider what the student's motivation was for wearing the shirt in the first place. Kids like to wear provacative T shirts. I wouldn't call it hate speech, but I question the appropriateness of drawing that much attention to yourself for religious reasons.

Yep. It only shows his opinion, people have paid a price for doing the same on other topics. I can't say it's a smart thing to wear in any diverse setting. However, I think as an Amerian-not a Canadian, that here he should have the right. In all honesty, it may be that the message might cause a bad learning environment and he'd be ordered to turn it inside out or change into school issued gym shirt.

[logroller]

Dead on kathianne. It's important to remember these are kids. As such, we shouldn't expect them to handle such statements in an adult manner. It can be detrimental to the learning environment; which is why they're there, after all; not to spread their religious beliefs.

[SassyLady]

I'm OK with the school telling the kid he can't wear the shirt if it is, in fact, against school policy. However, if other students can wear T-shirts with logos or sayings on them, then I feel this was targeted.

Wearing a Steelers t-shirt that says "Steelers Rock, all other Suck!" is spreading one's beliefs around. So, bottom line is that if one can't wear a t-shirt with a message, then none can wear them regardless of whether it is religious in nature, or not.

[ConHog]

I'm OK with the school telling the kid he can't wear the shirt if it is, in fact, against school policy. However, if other students can wear T-shirts with logos or sayings on them, then I feel this was targeted.

Wearing a Steelers t-shirt that says "Steelers Rock, all other Suck!" is spreading one's beliefs around. So, bottom line is that if one can't wear a t-shirt with a message, then none can wear them regardless of whether it is religious in nature, or not.
One of the many reasons i favor achool uniforms.


As it stands now our school policy is no slogans. Now of course even that is up for interpretation bc no kid is going to get in trouble for weari g say anike sjirt that says just do it or something like that

[SassyLady]

One of the many reasons i favor achool uniforms.


As it stands now our school policy is no slogans. Now of course even that is up for interpretation bc no kid is going to get in trouble for weari g say anike sjirt that says just do it or something like that

Wouldn't that offend procrastinators? :poke:

[Howard Roark]

I'm OK with the school telling the kid he can't wear the shirt if it is, in fact, against school policy. However, if other students can wear T-shirts with logos or sayings on them, then I feel this was targeted.

Wearing a Steelers t-shirt that says "Steelers Rock, all other Suck!" is spreading one's beliefs around. So, bottom line is that if one can't wear a t-shirt with a message, then none can wear them regardless of whether it is religious in nature, or not.

I'm guessing Steelers is ok. Anything that denigrates those who don't agree, is where the line is drawn.

[Noir]

I wouldn't wear that shirt, many others wouldn't either. However, by the very nature that it's on the person that chose the t-shirt shows that is that person's opinion. People have been beaten for wearing or burning things that show their opinion.

I don't see what that has to do with any of my three points?

[Kathianne]

First off the t-shirt is not hate speech.

Secondly the t-shirt is wrong, as it states an opinion as a fact. Just because someone is of the opinion that my life is wasted without their god, doesn't make it so.

Thirdly I think it says more about their opinion of their own lives, I mean, to have the opinion that a life without Jesus is wasted, is to say that things like your children, wife, friends, and other loved ones etc are just waste, and that only their god makes their life non-wasteful.


I don't see what that has to do with any of my three points?

Your first point we're in agreement. By nature of my agreement with your first point, I disagree with the shirt being 'wrong.' Which brings up your third point, which the first clause about 'opinion of their own lives'-disagree with your conclusion of it.

[Noir]

Your first point we're in agreement. By nature of my agreement with your first point, I disagree with the shirt being 'wrong.' Which brings up your third point, which the first clause about 'opinion of their own lives'-disagree with your conclusion of it.

I don't see how you can disagree with point three if you think the message of the t-shirt is right.

I mean, you must have the opinion of my that my life is wasted, because I do not have Jesus in it, no?

[jimnyc]

There's been no less than like 7 of these threads over the last 5 years, from Mexicans, American Flag, Gay community and other things. Some think the shirts are ok, others find them offensive. Other change their minds on what could/should be allowed depending on the message.

Either you allow all of them or none of them. But I suppose this could be followed/ignored by district. But IMO, even if you disallow certain shirts, similar to this one, it's still asinine to refer to it as "hate speech". What Sharpton, Farrakhan, KKK, Black Panthers - what they espouse is hate speech.

[Wind Song]

There's been no less than like 7 of these threads over the last 5 years, from Mexicans, American Flag, Gay community and other things. Some think the shirts are ok, others find them offensive. Other change their minds on what could/should be allowed depending on the message.

Either you allow all of them or none of them. But I suppose this could be followed/ignored by district. But IMO, even if you disallow certain shirts, similar to this one, it's still asinine to refer to it as "hate speech". What Sharpton, Farrakhan, KKK, Black Panthers - what they espouse is hate speech.


What they do is promote gangs. That's why all T-shirts of any kind like this are prohibited in most high schools. It's no less a gang if it's a Christian gang than another kind of gang.

[Kathianne]

I don't see how you can disagree with point three if you think the message of the t-shirt is right.

I mean, you must have the opinion of my that my life is wasted, because I do not have Jesus in it, no?

You are assuming I think it's right or wrong. I'm saying that expressing one's opinion, is one of our rights. Schools are different, they can make a claim that the shirt may be disruptive, then they decide if a change is needed or just reverse to inside out. They must be prepared to defend it in court however, IF they let others with 'more popular' clothing express theirs. Slippery slope to not outright ban or decide that only porn and obscenities will be disallowed.

[Noir]

You are assuming I think it's right or wrong.

Okay, so, to stop me assuming - Do you think a life without Jesus is a wasted one?


I'm saying that expressing one's opinion, is one of our rights. Schools are different, they can make a claim that the shirt may be disruptive, then they decide if a change is needed or just reverse to inside out. They must be prepared to defend it in court however, IF they let others with 'more popular' clothing express theirs. Slippery slope to not outright ban or decide that only porn and obscenities will be disallowed.

I dont disagree here.

[Kathianne]

Okay, so, to stop me assuming - Do you think a life without Jesus is a wasted one?



I dont disagree here.

I wouldn't wear that shirt, yet I believe in Jesus. If I were to wear it though, I have the right. It would be wrong for ME though to wear it. Get it?

[Noir]

I wouldn't wear that shirt, yet I believe in Jesus. If I were to wear it though, I have the right. It would be wrong for ME though to wear it. Get it?

The internet - Where people tell you not to make assumptions, and then give needlessly complex answers to questions rather than a straight yes/no.

No, I don't get it, and unless you want to answer with a yes/no to my question, then don't bother replying to this, because all this 'it would be wrong for me to wear that top' is a remarkably complex way of saying 'no' at least, I think that's what you mean by it, I'm not sure, having to make assumptions again you see.

[SassyLady]

The internet - Where people tell you not to make assumptions, and then give needlessly complex answers to questions rather than a straight yes/no.

No, I don't get it, and unless you want to answer with a yes/no to my question, then don't bother replying to this, because all this 'it would be wrong for me to wear that top' is a remarkably complex way of saying 'no' at least, I think that's what you mean by it, I'm not sure, having to make assumptions again you see.

Well, instead of asking her if she would wear the shirt, ask what you really want to know:

Kathianne ... do you personally believe that a life is wasted without Jesus?

[Kathianne]

Well, instead of asking her if she would wear the shirt, ask what you really want to know:

Kathianne ... do you personally believe that a life is wasted without Jesus?

Hmm, I think that is best left to the ultimate judge, I'm not there yet to meet her/him. ;)

Yes, I believe in God, Noir has been clear he does not. I haven't a problem with that, if there is one, it's not with me.

[SassyLady]

Hmm, I think that is best left to the ultimate judge, I'm not there yet to meet her/him. ;)

Yes, I believe in God, Noir has been clear he does not. I haven't a problem with that, if there is one, it's not with me.

Well, I have no opinion one way or another about Jesus.

I believe in God ... but not the stereotypical God that is taught in mainstream religions.

Would I wear the T-shirt. No...because it doesn't apply to my beliefs one way or another. Would I be upset if someone else wore it? No. They are free to believe what they want.

[Kathianne]

Well, I have no opinion one way or another about Jesus.

I believe in God ... but not the stereotypical God that is taught in mainstream religions.

Would I wear the T-shirt. No...because it doesn't apply to my beliefs one way or another. Would I be upset if someone else wore it? No. They are free to believe what they want.

We're pretty close, that saying doesn't reflect my beliefs, probably does some evangelicals, which I am far from. Yet, like the flag burners, I will say they have the right... blah, blah, but must be willing to take the consequences.

Which may be why the shirt was banned in school.

[SassyLady]

We're pretty close, that saying doesn't reflect my beliefs, probably does some evangelicals, which I am far from. Yet, like the flag burners, I will say they have the right... blah, blah, but must be willing to take the consequences.

Which may be why the shirt was banned in school.

Yeah, I'm OK with the shirt being banned at school, but ONLY if all shirts with any type of logos, sayings, etc. are banned. What is good for the goose must be good for the gander.

[Noir]

Well, instead of asking her if she would wear the shirt, ask what you really want to know:

Kathianne ... do you personally believe that a life is wasted without Jesus?

...I never asked her if she would wear the shirt, what I did ask her was


Okay, so, to stop me assuming - Do you think a life without Jesus is a wasted one?

[darin]

Noir - I <3 ya bro, but you never miss an opportunity to insult others' faith.

[revelarts]

In the UK a Doctor is fired for basically E-mailing "Merry Christmas" to a staff member.
It was considered a Hateful a Inappropriate RELIGIOUS ATTACK.


...According to Dr. Drew, 64, his issues with fellow Walsall Manor Hospital staff members began unfolding in 2008. It was during that year that a senior nurse reported that Drew was undermining her. As a result of the accusation, he was suspended and an investigation was undertaken. In the end, the charges waged against him were dismissed. But his problems didn’t end there.
The Telegraph has more (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9241992/Judge-tells-doctor-it-is-inappropriate-to-say-he-is-a-Christian-at-work.html):
Following an independent review of his conduct, a report concluded that Dr Drew’s religious language was inappropriate in a professional business setting.
He was told that such communication was unacceptable and that his religious beliefs should be kept to himself.
The report also criticised Dr Drew for sending a text message to a colleague, Rob Hodgkins, reading “Have a peaceful Christmas” which was perceived as an “aggressive and unwelcome intrusion” into his private time.
Dr Drew, a father of four who lives with his wife Janet, 61, in Sutton Coldfield, West Mids, refused to adhere to the report’s recommendations and was dismissed for “gross misconduct and insubordination” three days before Christmas in 2010. He lost an appeal last April.



this is just crazy,

If someone wheres a shirt that says "Life with out Surfing is wasted" would he be suspended, NO.

It is Religious persecution. plain and simple. It's ANTI CHRISTIAN. Punishing people for Christian Beliefs,


Just as a surfer is not FORCING ANYONE to SURF a Christian ISNT FORCING ANYONE to Christ by words on a TEE SHIRT.

Religious Speech is SPECIFICALLY mention and Protected By the bill of rights , when we used to use that.

But I can't figure out why people are so OFFENDED, if fellow a student was wearing a shirt that said
" Life is wasted without Allah " or "Life is wasted without mother goddess"
I would be Surprised by it but not "threatened or Offended". It's what they believe. I'm not threaten or harmed by their position. At least they've got a clear one.

I just don't see HARM.
Some say it's disruptive. Is there going to be riot? whose so offended by it that it's going to cause a problem. Are students so sentive now a days that they can't stand to be exposed to religious ideas contrary to their own?


bottom line it's just an anti religious ANTI RELIGIOUS ATTACK,

And I'm highly offended , does the kids and parents offense count?

[Noir]

Noir - I <3 ya bro, but you never miss an opportunity to insult others' faith.

I greatfully accept the rebuke ^,^

[Noir]

In the UK a Doctor is fired for basically E-mailing "Merry Christmas" to a staff member.
It was considered a Hateful a Inappropriate RELIGIOUS ATTACK.


this is just crazy,

If someone wheres a shirt that says "Life with out Surfing is wasted" would he be suspended, NO.

It is Religious persecution. plain and simple. It's ANTI CHRISTIAN. Punishing people for Christian Beliefs,


Just as a surfer is not FORCING ANYONE to SURF a Christian ISNT FORCING ANYONE to Christ by words on a TEE SHIRT.

Religious Speech is SPECIFICALLY mention and Protected By the bill of rights , when we used to use that.

But I can't figure out why people are so OFFENDED, if fellow a student was wearing a shirt that said
" Life is wasted without Allah " or "Life is wasted without mother goddess"
I would be Surprised by it but not "threatened or Offended". It's what they believe. I'm not threaten or harmed by their position. At least they've got a clear one.

I just don't see HARM.
Some say it's disruptive. Is there going to be riot? whose so offended by it that it's going to cause a problem. Are students so sentive now a days that they can't stand to be exposed to religious ideas contrary to their own?


bottom line it's just an anti religious ANTI RELIGIOUS ATTACK,

And I'm highly offended , does the kids and parents offense count?

I remeber that story. The man in question was constantly bringing up the fact that he was a Christian, unessessartily in the work environment, while sending his co-workers emails with prayers attached and bible quotes etc. there were complaints by his co-workers, he was asked to stop, and rather than do so, he decided to continue and so was sacked. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask someone to stop sending prayers etc in emails meant for work, even with the best intentions, it's not the place, especially when he's been made aware that some members of his team found it uncomfortable.

[ConHog]

In the UK a Doctor is fired for basically E-mailing "Merry Christmas" to a staff member.
It was considered a Hateful a Inappropriate RELIGIOUS ATTACK.


this is just crazy,

If someone wheres a shirt that says "Life with out Surfing is wasted" would he be suspended, NO.

It is Religious persecution. plain and simple. It's ANTI CHRISTIAN. Punishing people for Christian Beliefs,


Just as a surfer is not FORCING ANYONE to SURF a Christian ISNT FORCING ANYONE to Christ by words on a TEE SHIRT.

Religious Speech is SPECIFICALLY mention and Protected By the bill of rights , when we used to use that.

But I can't figure out why people are so OFFENDED, if fellow a student was wearing a shirt that said
" Life is wasted without Allah " or "Life is wasted without mother goddess"
I would be Surprised by it but not "threatened or Offended". It's what they believe. I'm not threaten or harmed by their position. At least they've got a clear one.

I just don't see HARM.
Some say it's disruptive. Is there going to be riot? whose so offended by it that it's going to cause a problem. Are students so sentive now a days that they can't stand to be exposed to religious ideas contrary to their own?


bottom line it's just an anti religious ANTI RELIGIOUS ATTACK,

And I'm highly offended , does the kids and parents offense count?


I've asked before. you do understand that there are legitimate reasons why the Court has ruled again and again that students do NOT enjoy full freedoms while at school don't you?

My only problem is when the rules aren't applied uniformly and some groups are given special consideration.