"We Don't Have To Spike The Football"

[Kathianne]

http://youtu.be/JsrSAqRrCc0 (http://youtu.be/JsrSAqRrCc0)

[4horsemenrule]

Despearte people do desperate things. Lord knows Obama CAN't talk about gas prices, unemployment, spending/deficits, the sinking of home values; inflation at the grocery store; the shrinking labor market; orhow the USSC may rule his "crowning achievement" (Obamacare) unconstitutional and uphold AZ immigration law

So the list of discussion topics is rather short for him

[Howard Roark]

Despearte people do desperate things. Lord knows Obama CAN't talk about gas prices, unemployment, spending/deficits, the sinking of home values; inflation at the grocery store; the shrinking labor market; orhow the USSC may rule his "crowning achievement" (Obamacare) unconstitutional and uphold AZ immigration law

So the list of discussion topics is rather short for him

Why can't he talk about those things?

[darin]

Why can't he talk about those things?

Vanity? Admitting failures doesn't seem compatible with his psyche

[Nukeman]

Why can't he talk about those things?He can talk about them all he wants, but how is he going to put a positive spin on those topics, Ohh wait I know "Its all Bush's fault" Is that about right???:poke:

[Howard Roark]

He can talk about them all he wants, but how is he going to put a positive spin on those topics, Ohh wait I know "Its all Bush's fault" Is that about right???:poke:

One at a time.

Gas prices are Obama's fault?

[jimnyc]

If ANYONE is going to tout the war on terror and/or capturing or killing any of the terrorists - then they should spike the ball AND give proper credit to the agencies and former administration that held the line until the Obama administration took over. Not to take credit away from Obama, but it likely never would have happened without the prior efforts.

[Nukeman]

One at a time.

Gas prices are Obama's fault?The price its self?? NO!! the policies put into place to cause said prices to inflate... yes.. Do you really think an industry that already pays 49% tax rate is going to sit back and NOT raise their prices if Obama gets his way of raising taxes MORE on those companies.. NO company pays thier taxes, its passed on to the consumer. If you think otherwise you are very misinformed..

Lets not forget the pipeline that he put the stop to, really cheaper oil pushed to US refineries at a lower cost as well as employing 20,000 people for its construction..

[Howard Roark]

The price its self?? NO!! the policies put into place to cause said prices to inflate... yes.. Do you really think an industry that already pays 49% tax rate is going to sit back and NOT raise their prices if Obama gets his way of raising taxes MORE on those companies.. NO company pays thier taxes, its passed on to the consumer. If you think otherwise you are very misinformed..

Lets not forget the pipeline that he put the stop to, really cheaper oil pushed to US refineries at a lower cost as well as employing 20,000 people for its construction..

Wow...all that hogwash in one post?

Please explain Obama's policies you refer to. Then you can show me the 49% tax rate if you have the time.

Keystone does nothing to help this country's gas issues, save to inflate gas prices in the midwest. The pipeline has been sending sludge there for years, causing a glut. Prices are low as a result.

None of the sludge that would be sent to Texas will remain in this country once it's refined. Further, US taxpayers will fund the refineries via a huge tax subsidy. The multinational company that refines in our country, will sell on the open market, avoiding all taxation in this country.


And then there's that 20,000 job figure:laugh:

[4horsemenrule]

One at a time.

Gas prices are Obama's fault?

Point one: if we hold Obama to the same standards the left held Pres Bush - damn right gas prcies are Obama's fault

The NY Times ran a front page campaign ad gloating how $3/gal gas would harm Republicans in the midterm election

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/teachers/featured_articles/20060424monday.html

Point two: Obama himself(and Democrats and liberal media) blamed Bush for high gas prices

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oaq2fHiOOY


Point three: Obama still has a ban on most drilling operations and is doing little to increase oil production

[Howard Roark]

Point one: if we hold Obama to the same standards the left held Pres Bush - damn right gas prcies are Obama's fault

The NY Times ran a front page campaign ad gloating how $3/gal gas would harm Republicans in the midterm election

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/teachers/featured_articles/20060424monday.html

Point two: Obama himself(and Democrats and liberal media) blamed Bush for high gas prices

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oaq2fHiOOY


Point three: Obama still has a ban on most drilling operations and is doing little to increase oil production

There's so much wrong with this post, I don't know where to start.

Drilling is at the highest it's been in years right now.

Domestic oil production exceeds imports, and refining had to be cut back due to increased stock, and decreased demand.

Bush was blamed for a number of reasons.

First, right or wrong, he comes from a long line of oil tycoons. It's easy to point a finger.

Second, his Blood For Oil campaign in Iraq destabilized the region, which gave Wall St. the opportunity to rape us in the futures market.

Said market is the ONLY reason gas is so high right now. Oil is hovering at app. $100/barrel. When gas was this high under Bush, oil was trading at over $140/barrel.

Demand is down. If you could point me to Obama's policies that drove the price up, I'd appreciate it.

I will grant you this much....Obama's refusal to rein in Wall St. during an election year, is a big part of the price of gas. He wants his share of their money as much as Romney does.


Tell me...are you suggesting that the govt. should meddle in the free market, in order to change the price of gas?


And about that 49% tax rate???????

[4horsemenrule]

There's so much wrong with this post, I don't know where to start.

Drilling is at the highest it's been in years right now.

Domestic oil production exceeds imports, and refining had to be cut back due to increased stock, and decreased demand.

Bush was blamed for a number of reasons.

First, right or wrong, he comes from a long line of oil tycoons. It's easy to point a finger.

Second, his Blood For Oil campaign in Iraq destabilized the region, which gave Wall St. the opportunity to rape us in the futures market.

Said market is the ONLY reason gas is so high right now. Oil is hovering at app. $100/barrel. When gas was this high under Bush, oil was trading at over $140/barrel.

Demand is down. If you could point me to Obama's policies that drove the price up, I'd appreciate it.

I will grant you this much....Obama's refusal to rein in Wall St. during an election year, is a big part of the price of gas. He wants his share of their money as much as Romney does.


Tell me...are you suggesting that the govt. should meddle in the free market, in order to change the price of gas?


And about that 49% tax rate???????

Wow, I am shocked people defending Obama ignore what Obama and the Dems said only a few years ago

Production is up on PRIVATE owned land but down on government owned land

We have Obama and Sen Schumer begging other countries to increase oil production to lower the price at the pump

Demand is down as the price is so high. Meanwhile the cost of everything is going up due to increased shipping costs

and yes, the tax rate for "Big Oil" is about 49% and if Democrats get their way and raise taxes on them the increase will passed on to us at the pump

I undersatnd this administration lacks the basic knowledge of Economcs 101, and we see the results on a daily basis

[Nukeman]

That tax rate is noted extensively in the media.. ALL YOU have to do is a quick google search.. Let me do it for you!!


The top three oil companies in the United States are ExxonMobil, ConocoPhillips and Chevron. According to the SEC filings of those companies, as analyzed (http://www.forbes.com/2011/04/13/ge-exxon-walmart-apple-business-washington-corporate-taxes.html) by Forbes, ExxonMobil’s pretax income in 2010 was $52 billion, from which it paid $21.6 billion in income taxes worldwide, leaving a net income of $30.5 billion. That equals a tax rate of 45 percent, which is 10 percent above the statutory corporate rate of 35 percent.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/top-3-us-oil-companies-paid-428-billion-income-taxes-2010

[4horsemenrule]

and drilling on Federal land - way down uder Obama


http://lonelyconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Oil-Gas-Coal-production.jpg

[libertine]

and drilling on Federal land - way down uder Obama




That's a good thing.

[SassyLady]

That's a good thing.
Why?

[Howard Roark]

That tax rate is noted extensively in the media.. ALL YOU have to do is a quick google search.. Let me do it for you!!



http://cnsnews.com/news/article/top-3-us-oil-companies-paid-428-billion-income-taxes-2010

I'm trying to decipher exactly what the truth is. From your link:



The top three oil companies in the United States are ExxonMobil, ConocoPhillips and Chevron. According to the SEC filings of those companies, as analyzed by Forbes, ExxonMobil’s pretax income in 2010 was $52 billion, from which it paid $21.6 billion in income taxes worldwide, leaving a net income of $30.5 billion. That equals a tax rate of 45 percent, which is 10 percent above the statutory corporate rate of 35 percent.





ConocoPhillips earned $19.8 billion in pretax income in 2010 and it paid $8.3 billion in taxes, leaving $11.4 billion in income. That equals a tax rate of 42 percent. Chevron made $32 billion and then paid $12.9 billion in income taxes, leaving a net income of $19.1 billion, which equals a tax rate of 40 percent.

ExxonMobil’s total tax bill, worldwide, was $89 billion in 2010, comprised mostly of sales and excise taxes. ConocoPhillips, for comparison, paid an additional $16.8 billion in “other taxes” beyond its income taxes, reported Forbes, and Chevron paid an additional $18.2 billion in “other taxes” in 2010.


As well, there are excise/sales taxes included, which are passed on to the consumer. I'm having trouble understanding how Mobil paid almost twice as much in taxes, as they earned?

[SassyLady]

Perhaps they paid sales taxes on new assets out of previous earnings..capital reserves.

[4horsemenrule]

That's a good thing.

It is a good thing if you want to cause the cost of everything to go up, appease the tree huggers, and put a smile of the faces of the leaders of the Chinese government

[libertine]

It is a good thing if you want to cause the cost of everything to go up, appease the tree huggers, and put a smile of the faces of the leaders of the Chinese government

Dependence on oil, foreign or otherwise, is why the United States has sought a policy of perpetual war. It's this mindset that will eventually lay waste to the environment while also destroying whole countries and economies. Oil-dependent culture is unsustainable.

[logroller]

I'm trying to decipher exactly what the truth is. From your link:





As well, there are excise/sales taxes included, which are passed on to the consumer. I'm having trouble understanding how Mobil paid almost twice as much in taxes, as they earned?

They just round up to the nearest $89B.:laugh:

As for truth, most commodities, especially oil, is heavily subsidized by our government. Excluding oil exporting countries, I'm quite sure we still pay less than most, if not all global consumers. I'm not knocking subsidies, there's good reason we do so, but manipulating the market always incurs transactional costs which inevitably lead to inflation (which we've tried, valiantly, to stave off). This is nothing new to our generation though. It's been been occurring for decades; oil is the lifeblood of the military-industrial complex. Which I can be compelled to accept as necessary for our continued dominance; but I likewise have to accept the consequence of an attitude which I liken to Veruca Salt, "Don't care how, I want it now!"

[4horsemenrule]

Dependence on oil, foreign or otherwise, is why the United States has sought a policy of perpetual war. It's this mindset that will eventually lay waste to the environment while also destroying whole countries and economies. Oil-dependent culture is unsustainable.

and Jimmy Carter created the Dept of Energy to get America off dependence of foreign oil

We see how that worked out

Bottom line is, the US economy runs on oil and for some reason the left seems to have a problem with drilling to get that oil

[Howard Roark]

A report requested by President Obama and released today by the Department of the Interior shows that more than two-thirds of offshore leases in the Gulf of Mexico and more than half of onshore leases on federal lands remain idle, neither producing nor under active exploration and development by companies who hold those leases.

“We continue to support safe and responsible domestic energy production, and as this report shows millions of acres that have already been leased to industry for oil and gas productions sit idle,” Department of Interior Secretary Ken Salazar said. “These are resources that belong to the American people, and they expect those supplies to be developed in a timely and responsible manner and with a fair return to taxpayers. As we continue to offer new areas onshore and offshore for leasing, as we have done over the last two years, we will also be exploring ways to provide incentives to companies to bring production online quickly and safely.”
http://www.doi.gov/news/pressreleases/DOI-Releases-Report-on-Unused-Oil-and-Gas-Leases.cfm

[libertine]

and Jimmy Carter created the Dept of Energy to get America off dependence of foreign oil

We see how that worked out

Bottom line is, the US economy runs on oil and for some reason the left seems to have a problem with drilling to get that oil

Because it is unsustainable. Oil is a finite resource. Do the math.

[SassyLady]

http://www.doi.gov/news/pressreleases/DOI-Releases-Report-on-Unused-Oil-and-Gas-Leases.cfm

Perhaps because it is cheaper to drill on private lands?


The White House points to the broader measure of all oil production, including on private land, to show an improvement. That, too, is fair. But experts agree that most big boosts in production come from years of earlier exploration and drilling. Much of the current success was seeded under a different administration, just as Obama’s actions are expected to bear fruit later.

And at least part of the drop on public lands last year was due to the Deepwater Horizon disaster and oil spill and, according to BLM, an apparent shift by oil companies to private lands ripe for fracking.

That leaves us here: Portman’s fact was accurate: There was a 14 percent drop on public lands. Everything else can be teased out and spun for either party’s purposes. Under PolitiFact guidelines, when a statement is accurate but needs clarification or additional information, it rates a Truth-o-Meter rating of Mostly True.

http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2012/apr/02/rob-portman/rob-portman-says-oil-production-public-lands-was-d/

[Howard Roark]

Perhaps because it is cheaper to drill on private lands?

So? What's your point? Obama isn't curtailing the drilling. These leases have been sitting idle for years.

[Kathianne]

http://www.doi.gov/news/pressreleases/DOI-Releases-Report-on-Unused-Oil-and-Gas-Leases.cfm

Obama's nonsense speech in 2011 was just that. Indeed, the same blather had been making the rounds earlier:

http://www.uschamber.com/issues/letters/2008/key-vote-letter-opposing-hr-6515-drill-responsibly-leased-lands-act-2008

On its very face it was a goofy charge, that somehow the oil companies were trying not to make money, while usually the accusations were they were exploitative.

[SassyLady]

So? What's your point? Obama isn't curtailing the drilling. These leases have been sitting idle for years.

Did I say he was?

As I said, it's cheaper to drill on private land. That is one of the reasons those government leases are sitting idle.

So, if Obama isn't "curtailing" how is he "promoting" it?

[Howard Roark]

Did I say he was?

As I said, it's cheaper to drill on private land. That is one of the reasons those government leases are sitting idle.

So, if Obama isn't "curtailing" how is he "promoting" it?

Stop trying to twist the issue. I'm addressing the silliness in this post

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?34994-quot-We-Don-t-Have-To-Spike-The-Football-quot&p=543522#post543522

If you want to join the discussion, that's fine. Let's just keep the facts straight.

[SassyLady]

Stop trying to twist the issue. I'm addressing the silliness in this post

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?34994-quot-We-Don-t-Have-To-Spike-The-Football-quot&p=543522#post543522

If you want to join the discussion, that's fine. Let's just keep the facts straight.
You accuse me of twisting?

[Gator Monroe]

The Left & Far Left are rife with anti-Zionist Bigotry (Because it's trendy):link: