Where do the come up with this nuttiness?

[tailfins]

Are homophobes secretly gay? A new study purports to prove it.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/04/homophobic_maybe_you_re_gay_the_new_york_times_on_ a_new_study_of_secret_sexuality_.html

It's all about not provoking God's judgement. Why don't these people get it? I guess at least gays are responsible for very few abortions.

[jimnyc]

More importantly, why would people who fear homosexuals be secretly gay?

[Gator Monroe]

Fear NAMBLA & their GLBT allies

[gabosaurus]

I read that article. Now I am starting to wondering about you guys.

[DragonStryk72]

Are homophobes secretly gay? A new study purports to prove it.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/04/homophobic_maybe_you_re_gay_the_new_york_times_on_ a_new_study_of_secret_sexuality_.html

It's all about not provoking God's judgement. Why don't these people get it? I guess at least gays are responsible for very few abortions.

You know, I get really tired of this moniker. My dad's gay, I'm pro-gay marriage, but then I also don't believe the government should actually be telling who can get married, but that's another thread all together. In any event, the use of the word homophobe is incorrect, and is used as a pejorative only, to mark those who do not like homosexuals.

There is a difference between fear and dislike, hared, or disagreement. This idea that all who dislike gays are secretly gay themselves is just ludicrous and insulting. It never helps any sort of debate, and becomes the "Hitler" of the gay rights debate. Yes, the real nutters about it likely have deep-seeded issues that they may not be dealing with, but that's not representative of the whole or even the majority. As I've said before, I believe that a lot of the anger that comes into the debate is due to the fact that unfortunately, the loons on both sides are running the debate.

The anti-gay movement is no more at fault for this than the gay rights activists who try to cram their lifestyle choice down other peoples' throats, only to scoff when someone doesn't like them, and call them homophobes, then sit there and pull the lame ass "Well, secretly they're really gay." It's a bully tactic, and has no place in grown-up debate.

[Thunderknuckles]

" For at least 15 years, scientists have been trying to use objective laboratory measures to prove the he-who-smelt-it-dealt-it (http://www.odps.org/glossword/index.php?a=term&d=4&t=318) theory of human sexuality."

Grrrrrr I'm pissed off. For 15 years these idiots have been trying to find a proof for a conclusion they have already decided was true.
News flash:
THAT'S NOT HOW THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD WORKS!!

Let's just go ahead and take this logic to a foolish extent.
I fear serial killers, but only because I'm a serial killer myself.

[avatar4321]

If they have "proved" it, then I am a multi millionaire.

[Noir]

" For at least 15 years, scientists have been trying to use objective laboratory measures to prove the he-who-smelt-it-dealt-it (http://www.odps.org/glossword/index.php?a=term&d=4&t=318) theory of human sexuality."

Grrrrrr I'm pissed off. For 15 years these idiots have been trying to find a proof for a conclusion they have already decided was true.
News flash:
THAT'S NOT HOW THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD WORKS!!

Let's just go ahead and take this logic to a foolish extent.
I fear serial killers, but only because I'm a serial killer myself.

The scientific method works by having a hypothesis, testing it, and testing again, and again, and so on.
Im sure techniques and understanding of the sub-conscious have chnaged a heck of a lot in 15 years, so it's not surprising that they'd put this knew knowledge to old questions. Unless you think there's some cut off point were they go 'right, we've studied this for 6 years, as of now it's closed, it must not be studied again, this answer is to be taken as unquestionable truth'...that would be unscientific.

[Wind Song]

Fear NAMBLA & their GLBT allies


Please don't ever think of me as an ally of NAMBLA. Lesbians are historically vocal against NAMBLA. We've never wanted them marching in our parades.

Pedophilia has nothing to do with adult sexuality--gay or straight.

[keyser soze]

You know, I get really tired of this moniker. My dad's gay, I'm pro-gay marriage, but then I also don't believe the government should actually be telling who can get married, but that's another thread all together. In any event, the use of the word homophobe is incorrect, and is used as a pejorative only, to mark those who do not like homosexuals.

There is a difference between fear and dislike, hared, or disagreement. This idea that all who dislike gays are secretly gay themselves is just ludicrous and insulting. It never helps any sort of debate, and becomes the "Hitler" of the gay rights debate. Yes, the real nutters about it likely have deep-seeded issues that they may not be dealing with, but that's not representative of the whole or even the majority. As I've said before, I believe that a lot of the anger that comes into the debate is due to the fact that unfortunately, the loons on both sides are running the debate.

The anti-gay movement is no more at fault for this than the gay rights activists who try to cram their lifestyle choice down other peoples' throats, only to scoff when someone doesn't like them, and call them homophobes, then sit there and pull the lame ass "Well, secretly they're really gay." It's a bully tactic, and has no place in grown-up debate.

The reason it gets any traction is because all too often it's true. Those who are the most rabidly anti gay turn out to be gay themselves...and it happens all the time in the GOP. Personally I think anyone who's gay and republican is a self hater and not capable of speaking to the issue.

Homophobes are homophobes...it's a phobia, not rational etc. etc. etc. all too often it's over compensating for gay 'feelings'...fear, fear...be afraid...what the hell is the 'gay agenda' anyway?

[Dilloduck]

The reason it gets any traction is because all too often it's true. Those who are the most rabidly anti gay turn out to be gay themselves...and it happens all the time in the GOP. Personally I think anyone who's gay and republican is a self hater and not capable of speaking to the issue.

Homophobes are homophobes...it's a phobia, not rational etc. etc. etc. all too often it's over compensating for gay 'feelings'...fear, fear...be afraid...what the hell is the 'gay agenda' anyway?


If you don't know what the gay agenda is, you are one.

[SassyLady]

The reason it gets any traction is because all too often it's true. Those who are the most rabidly anti gay turn out to be gay themselves...and it happens all the time in the GOP. Personally I think anyone who's gay and republican is a self hater and not capable of speaking to the issue.

Homophobes are homophobes...it's a phobia, not rational etc. etc. etc. all too often it's over compensating for gay 'feelings'...fear, fear...be afraid...what the hell is the 'gay agenda' anyway?

So, someone who has a phobia of snakes, is themselves a snake? Happens all the time in the Democratic party. Personally, I think anyone who's afraid of snakes and democratic is a self-hater and not capable of speaking to the issue of Ophidiophobia.

[DragonStryk72]

The reason it gets any traction is because all too often it's true. Those who are the most rabidly anti gay turn out to be gay themselves...and it happens all the time in the GOP. Personally I think anyone who's gay and republican is a self hater and not capable of speaking to the issue.

Homophobes are homophobes...it's a phobia, not rational etc. etc. etc. all too often it's over compensating for gay 'feelings'...fear, fear...be afraid...what the hell is the 'gay agenda' anyway?

It does not happen "All the time", it happens maybe once a year or two, that's not "All the time", any more than Christmas happens "All the Time"/

Dislike is not a phobia, it's a dislike or hatred, but not a fear (aka a phobia). It's like calling gay people Heterophobes, it's no less disinegenuous

[keyser soze]

If you don't know what the gay agenda is, you are one.

Which means what exactly? If ask you to be more forthcoming I'm gay? LMAO...

[ConHog]

I read that article. Now I am starting to wondering about you guys.



Any time you want to come to Arkansas I'm willing to prove to you I'm not gay.

My wife on the other hand has seen your picture and advises that she might go at least bi. :laugh2:

[Wind Song]

If you don't know what the gay agenda is, you are one.

Right. We're only ones ignorant of our "agenda".

[Little-Acorn]

Homophobe (n) - a perjorative term invented by homosexual advocates in an attempt to pretend that people with a natural dislike of homosexual relations, are somehow "afraid" of something.

[Gator Monroe]

:lol: Cool:clap:

[ConHog]

So are some gays heterophobes?

[SassyLady]

So are some gays heterophobes?

Yep!

[Howard Roark]

So are some gays heterophobes?

More than likely, if they publicly work toward the denial of hetero rights, they could be.

[Howard Roark]

You know, I get really tired of this moniker. My dad's gay, I'm pro-gay marriage, but then I also don't believe the government should actually be telling who can get married, but that's another thread all together. In any event, the use of the word homophobe is incorrect, and is used as a pejorative only, to mark those who do not like homosexuals.
You're right. Homophobe is probably the wrong term. I think many are referring to the extreme anti gay folks who seem to be obsessed/disgusted with the thought of gay sex. In Congress, we do tend to find that those who push the hardest against gay rights issues, are the ones who rent boytoys, frequent airport bathrooms for gay sex, etc..
If your father's gay, that means (possibly) he either didn't realize he was gay before he married/had kids, or you are adopted by two fathers. If the latter, you seem to be proof that gay couples should be able to adopt, and raise children.

You seem to have turned out ok.

[Wind Song]

Yep!


Prove it.

[Dilloduck]

Which means what exactly? If ask you to be more forthcoming I'm gay? LMAO...

If you lisp when you say it, "yes".

[jimnyc]

Prove it.

Prove that heterosexuals discussed in this thread are afraid of gays. It would make sense for the premise of this thread to be proven first, which is impossible, because it's simply not. There are many who are against gays, gay marriage, dislike them, hate them, find them disgusting - some love them, like them, support them - in other words many people feel many things. I've yet to meet even one person who was afraid of gays.

[Wind Song]

Prove that heterosexuals discussed in this thread are afraid of gays. It would make sense for the premise of this thread to be proven first, which is impossible, because it's simply not. There are many who are against gays, gay marriage, dislike them, hate them, find them disgusting - some love them, like them, support them - in other words many people feel many things. I've yet to meet even one person who was afraid of gays.

No, that's not what I meant. Sassy thinks gays are afraid of hets. I asked HER to prove it.

[Dilloduck]

No, that's not what I meant. Sassy thinks gays are afraid of hets. I asked HER to prove it.


Theyr'e not afraid of hets--they are envious of them.

[Shadow]

Must be why they call them breeders...like it is supposed to be some kind of insult.

[jimnyc]

No, that's not what I meant. Sassy thinks gays are afraid of hets. I asked HER to prove it.

I know that, you're asking her to prove the very opposite of what this thread is about. I'm simply stating that this thread topic hasn't been proven yet and the topic will do a 180 before it has. I'm pointing out that it hasn't been proven yet, because it's not true.

[Wind Song]

Theyr'e not afraid of hets--they are envious of them.


We're certainly envious of the first class citizenship hets have and we don't.

[Wind Song]

I know that, you're asking her to prove the very opposite of what this thread is about. I'm simply stating that this thread topic hasn't been proven yet and the topic will do a 180 before it has. I'm pointing out that it hasn't been proven yet, because it's not true.

You've certainly indicated an aversion for gay men, are you saying it DOESN'T come out of a fear of gay men "getting" you?

[Dilloduck]

We're certainly envious of the first class citizenship hets have and we don't.

Ain't my fault you were born that way. :laugh2:

[Wind Song]

Ain't my fault you were born that way. :laugh2:

Well, darlin', we will have equal rights one day. Were you born prejudiced against gays or did you train for it?

[jimnyc]

You've certainly indicated an aversion for gay men, are you saying it DOESN'T come out of a fear of gay men "getting" you?

Not even remotely close. Why would I fear gay men "getting me"? Are gay men in the habit of going around raping men? And if not, then you proved yourself wrong. I'm saying that people are against gays, and gay marriage, absolutely - but not because they fear them. I've NEVER met, NOT EVEN ONE, person who feared homosexuals. It makes no sense even. It's simply a made up term to vilify those against gays or gay marriage.

[Dilloduck]

Well, darlin', we will have equal rights one day. Were you born prejudiced against gays or did you train for it?

You need to move to a gay friendly town. They have more power than hets. They even hire gays instead of hets.

[Wind Song]

Not even remotely close. Why would I fear gay men "getting me"? Are gay men in the habit of going around raping men? And if not, then you proved yourself wrong. I'm saying that people are against gays, and gay marriage, absolutely - but not because they fear them. I've NEVER met, NOT EVEN ONE, person who feared homosexuals. It makes no sense even. It's simply a made up term to vilify those against gays or gay marriage.


Prejudice involves ignorance, fear and hatred. Homophobia is loosely defined as holding negative attitudes toward gay people.

[Wind Song]

You need to move to a gay friendly town. They have more power than hets. They even hire gays instead of hets.


You need to change your own attitude wherever you live.

[Dilloduck]

You need to change your own attitude wherever you live.

Whatever for ? I like my attitude.

[Wind Song]

Whatever for ? I like my attitude.


Really? Why? What's so great about your attitude?

[Dilloduck]

Really? Why? What's so great about your attitude?

It's tolerant but doesn't put up with insane shit. I can also change it to fit the circumstance if I so desire.

[Wind Song]

It's tolerant but doesn't put up with insane shit. I can also change it to fit the circumstance if I so desire.

Tell me more about how you're tolerant.

[Dilloduck]

Tell me more about how you're tolerant.

I haven't smacked anyone for decades and there were a lot of em who really deserved it.

[Wind Song]

I haven't smacked anyone for decades and there were a lot of em who really deserved it.


Happy to hear it.

[ConHog]

Prejudice involves ignorance, fear and hatred. Homophobia is loosely defined as holding negative attitudes toward gay people.


Words have meaning Dorothy. Phobia means fear. In fact strictly speaking a homophobe wouhld be someone who fears humans. I would say you fit that to a tee on that you are afraid that nearly every person in the world is out to get you

Dorothy is a homophobe

[Wind Song]

Words have meaning Dorothy. Phobia means fear. In fact strictly speaking a homophobe wouhld be someone who fears humans. I would say you fit that to a tee on that you are afraid that nearly every person in the world is out to get you

Dorothy is a homophobe


Here you go again, using the name I asked you not to use. This post isn't helpful, Con. You know perfectly well "homophobia" refers to prejudice against gay people.

[ConHog]

Here you go again, using the name I asked you not to use. This post isn't helpful, Con.

I use it prcisely because you gey so upset about it. You get just as offended by me calling you dorothy as you do about jim calling you a queet which is hust silly one is your name the other well...

As for my post it was dead on. Literally transkated a homophobe is a person wbo fears humans and there are people who fear other people. You for example

[tailfins]

" For at least 15 years, scientists have been trying to use objective laboratory measures to prove the he-who-smelt-it-dealt-it (http://www.odps.org/glossword/index.php?a=term&d=4&t=318) theory of human sexuality."

Grrrrrr I'm pissed off. For 15 years these idiots have been trying to find a proof for a conclusion they have already decided was true.
News flash:
THAT'S NOT HOW THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD WORKS!!

Let's just go ahead and take this logic to a foolish extent.
I fear serial killers, but only because I'm a serial killer myself.






You haven't watched insurance rate proceedings have you? You would love being part of an actuarial team where you are told to do an unbiased statistical analysis that says we need a thirty percent rate increase. In reality all the regulators want is mathematical cover in case anyone asks questions. Whether or not to grant the rate increase is determined by political contributions, at least that's the way it was with the Dukakis administration. I had too much self-respect to stay in the field and transitioned to writing code.

[tailfins]

You need to move to a gay friendly town. They have more power than hets. They even hire gays instead of hets.

That would be illegal in Massachusetts.

[Wind Song]

I use it prcisely because you gey so upset about it. You get just as offended by me calling you dorothy as you do about jim calling you a queet which is hust silly one is your name the other well...

As for my post it was dead on. Literally transkated a homophobe is a person wbo fears humans and there are people who fear other people. You for example

When I give you permission to use my real name I will do so out of love and respect for our friendship. You out my real name to people who aren't friendly. I want my real name kept private.


I don't fear people in general. I'm not agoraphobic.

[tailfins]

Prejudice involves ignorance, fear and hatred. Homophobia is loosely defined as holding negative attitudes toward gay people.

It's used as an accusation for those who oppose the agenda of radical gay organizations. I oppose them because they are religious bigots, not because they are gay.

[ConHog]

When I give you permission to use my real name I will do so out of love and respect for our friendship. You out my real name to people who aren't friendly. I want my real name kept private.


I don't fear people in general. I'm not agoraphobic.

Not every phobia resulta in anxiety and oanic attacks

[Dilloduck]

That would be illegal in Massachusetts.

Nice law I guess. Impossible to enforce.

[tailfins]

Nice law I guess. Impossible to enforce.

Not impossible at all. If you have witnesses or other circumstantial evidence that you have been discriminated for your sexual orientation, the MCAD will treat it like any other kind of discrimination. I don't think it happens in the gay community because it would be a bad public relations event from their perspective.

[Wind Song]

It's used as an accusation for those who oppose the agenda of radical gay organizations. I oppose them because they are religious bigots, not because they are gay.


You oppose them because they nail the prejudice in your friends and you can't tolerate that. We call a spade a spade. If you hate gays/ you hate gays. A form of hate is thinking gays are inferior and undeserving of equal rights.

[Dilloduck]

Not impossible at all. If you have witnesses or other circumstantial evidence that you have been discriminated for your sexual orientation, the MCAD will treat it like any other kind of discrimination. I don't think it happens in the gay community because it would be a bad public relations event from their perspective.

Do y'all have quotas ? That certainly would be circumstantial evidence.

[Wind Song]

God forbid in a homophobes world that gays should be seen as full citizens of America and human beings worthy of love and respect.

Hatred burns in the hearts of homophobes who use their religious fundamentalism to hurt gays. The Christian right wing is obsessed with gays. It's the cornerstone of evangelical politics.

GOD HATES FAGS

TURN OR BURN

[tailfins]

You oppose them because they nail the prejudice in your friends and you can't tolerate that. We call a spade a spade. If you hate gays/ you hate gays. A form of hate is thinking gays are inferior and undeserving of equal rights.

My church has specific teaching on homosexuality that is protected by the First Amendment. When anyone interferes with that practice, I will oppose them vigorously.

[DragonStryk72]

You're right. Homophobe is probably the wrong term. I think many are referring to the extreme anti gay folks who seem to be obsessed/disgusted with the thought of gay sex. In Congress, we do tend to find that those who push the hardest against gay rights issues, are the ones who rent boytoys, frequent airport bathrooms for gay sex, etc..
If your father's gay, that means (possibly) he either didn't realize he was gay before he married/had kids, or you are adopted by two fathers. If the latter, you seem to be proof that gay couples should be able to adopt, and raise children.

You seem to have turned out ok.

Actually, my dad realized before he got married, but grew up a in heavy Irish Catholic household. He shielded himself in marriage to hide it, to "play straight" until he was straight. He was a homophobe, as he was afraid of being gay himself.

The reason that I dislike the moniker is that it's pretty much only used to insult those who dislike gays, and then goes the whole "Well, he's probably secretly gay", and it just pisses off people who are being not only how they feel, but that feeling that way must mean they're secretly in favor of it. I mean, imagine if we put that logic to rape? It would mean that the most ardent opponents of rape, are secretly in favor of it. Could you imagine telling rape victims that? That they secretly liked because they hated rape so much? It's the same thing being done with the word homophobe, and really, in my view, it's no better or more mature to use that argument.

[tailfins]

God forbid in the homophobes world that gays should be seen as full citizens of America and human beings worthy of love and respect.


Respect is a two way street. Conservative Christians are not going to fall in line with Khrushchev's spit in our face and call it dew.

[Wind Song]

My church has specific teaching on homosexuality that is protected by the First Amendment. When anyone interferes with that practice, I will oppose them vigorously.


We are political opponents. You oppose my very being. You can't let us live in the world with you. You seek to destroy us, to put us down under you thumb and to make sure we don't live as full equal citizens.

You are an enemy to the wholeness of every gay and lesbian that lives.

[tailfins]

God forbid in a homophobes world that gays should be seen as full citizens of America and human beings worthy of love and respect.

Hatred burns in the hearts of homophobes who use their religious fundamentalism to hurt gays. The Christian right wing is obsessed with gays. It's the cornerstone of evangelical politics.

GOD HATES FAGS

TURN OR BURN

You take Phred Phelps seriously? He's such as nutcase as to be a caricature. You're being disingenuous if you use him for any kind of example.

Turn or burn means turn from ANY sin.

[Wind Song]

Respect is a two way street. Conservative Christians are not going to fall in line with Khrushchev's spit in our face and call it dew.

Respect is a two way street. I cannot respect you because you don't respect me. You would annhilate the very being and identity of every gay or lesbian on earth.

[Wind Song]

You take Phred Phelps seriously? He's such as nutcase as to be a caricature. You're being disingenuous if you use him for any kind of example.

Turn or burn means turn from ANY sin.


You're not much different from Phelps IMO. Your position is just as hateful. You're a bigot in faith clothing. The gay community wants nothing more than the basic civil liberties the 'heartland' of America was denying black people less than half a century ago.

They used religious reasoning to deny inter-racial couples the right to marry then too.

[tailfins]

You're not much different from Phelps IMO. Your position is just as hateful.

You see, I don't oppose you because you're gay. I oppose you because you're an @$$hole.

[Wind Song]

You see, I don't oppose you because you're gay. I oppose you because you're an @$$hole.

The feeling is mutual. You hide your hate behind your faith. I oppose you because you DON'T represent Christianity. Jesus would be appalled.

Do you hate the woman in this avatar? You don't even know her.

[tailfins]

The feeling is mutual. You hide your hate behind your faith. Jesus would be appalled.
"They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good." Titus 1:16


Do you hate the woman in this avatar? You don't even know her.


You compare me to Phelps; you're being an @$$. It's really simple.

[Wind Song]

You compare me to Phelps; you're being an @$$. It's really simple.


Tell me sir, what is the difference between you and Phelps? You hide behind Phelps, you are worse than Phelps.

If biblical prohibition were the real source of your condemnation, we would find ourselves in a society where shellfish eaters and bankers would be prohibited from getting married. Those who so flagrantly violate God’s law cannot possibly be moral, and clearly cannot be considered good role models for our children.

[tailfins]

Tell me sir, what is the difference between you and Phelps? You hide behind Phelps, you are worse than Phelps.

Whatever you say, sweetie.

[Wind Song]

Whatever you say, sweetie.


Put me on ignore, honey. Join the fucking club gay hater.

[DragonStryk72]

Whatever you say, sweetie.

Amazing, I didn't know that calling Phelps a total loon who has no legitimate place in a serious debate counted as being in support of him. That must mean that Wind Song must want to have his babies.

[Wind Song]

The only difference between Fred Phelps and tailfins is that Fred is honest about his hatred of gays and tailfins "grinfucks" us. Tailfins and Phelps want the same thing. Both condemn the very being of gay and lesbian human citizens.

Both of them deny us our civil rights.

[tailfins]

Put me on ignore, honey. Join the fucking club gay hater.

Actually, I decided how to deal with you long ago. I consider you fodder to state my opinion to the forum in general. From my perspective, you are a plaything.

[Wind Song]

Actually, I decided how to deal with you long ago. I consider you fodder to state my opinion to the forum in general. From my perspective, you are a plaything.


This post is totally consistent with what I already knew about you.

Why do you thinK I'm on your case? You don't even consider me human, let alone one of God's children. You're just like Phelps. You want your own rights but you don't want us to have any.

Fundamentalism, as practiced by Phelps, and all like him, is a perversion of Jesus teachings, IMO. It's old testament condemnation. Jesus wouldn't reject us. He'd be marching in a gay rights parade with us.

We are loved for who we are. Homosexuals are on the planet to show the narrow minded how far they are from God.

[tailfins]

This post is totally consistent with what I already knew about you.

Why do you thinK I'm on your case? You don't even consider me human, let alone one of God's children. You're just like Phelps. You want your own rights but you don't want us to have any.

You should thank me. I never advocated banning you. I understand there is a limited right to be an @$$hole, so I do want your "us" to have some rights. However one of my favorite authors is even on one of your favorite websites, The Huffington Post. His name is Robert Sutton. His signature book is "The No Asshole Rule". http://www.amazon.com/The-Asshole-Rule-Civilized-Workplace/dp/0446526568

You see, the big difference between you and I is that I make an effort to give gays as much as a break as possible without violating my faith. YOU MAKE NO SUCH EFFORT. You are a religious bigot. Not all gays are religious bigots, but you are.

Being gay isn't your defining characteristic; it's being an @$$hole.

[Wind Song]

You should thank me. I never advocated banning you. I understand there is a limited right to be an @$$hole, so I do want your "us" to have some rights. However one of my favorite authors is even on one of your favorite websites, The Huffington Post. His name is Robert Sutton. His signature book is "The No Asshole Rule". http://www.amazon.com/The-Asshole-Rule-Civilized-Workplace/dp/0446526568

You see, the big difference between you and I is that I make an effort to give gays as much as a break as possible without violating my faith. YOU MAKE NO SUCH EFFORT. You are a religious bigot. Not all gays are religious bigots, but you are.

Being gay isn't your defining characteristic; it's being an @$$hole.


Go ahead and advocate banning me. Join the Ignore Wind Song club. Tell me I'm an asshole. I don't care. Gay and lesbians are fighting for our lives.


Tell me EXACTLY how you think you give gays a break. I don't see it. You want to interfere in CIVIL marriage law.

Some Christians want to wipe us off the planet. Go send Martin Ssempa some more money for the kill gays legislation in Uganda. Some megachurch in Las Vegas did that very thing and sent missionaries to Africa to ensure they stirred up more anti-gay hate.

How are we supposed to know which Christians have our backs and which ones don't? I'll tell you how fucked up some churches are. They accept gays and lesbians as long as we live like eunuchs.

Most of us could care less about what your Church practices are. We don't want to marry in gay hate Churches. We want civil marriage equality.

[tailfins]

Go ahead and advocate banning me. Join the Ignore Wind Song club. Tell me I'm an asshole. I don't care. Gay and lesbians are fighting for our lives.


Tell me EXACTLY how you think you give gays a break. I don't see it. You want to interfere in CIVIL marriage law. You want to wipe us off the planet. Go send Martin Ssempa some more money for the kill gays legislation in Uganda.

I don't give people a bad time because they are gay. I have the same expectations of gays as anyone else. I would judge a hetero executive carrying on with his secretary just as harshly as same-sex immorality. I don't want homosexual behavior in my presence any more or less than I want drunkenness or adultery. If for whatever reason you don't respect my faith, you are a religious bigot. It's really simple.

[Wind Song]

I don't give people a bad time because they are gay. I have the same expectations of gays as anyone else. I would judge a hetero executive carrying on with his secretary just as harshly as same-sex immorality. I don't want homosexual behavior in my presence any more or less than I want drunkenness or adultery. If for whatever reason you don't respect my faith, you are a religious bigot. It's really simple.

Homosexual behavior? You mean the sin of being homosexual in your presence? I don't want to see heterosexual behavior in my presence. Do you see how stupid that it?
If you don't want to see me hold hands or kiss my wife, don't come to my house. You can't stand the idea that gays fall in love and make love with each other? Too bad. We're not going back into the closets to suit you and yours.

I respect your faith. You don't respect my people.

You think you are superior because of your faith. You're not. You want my people to walk with our heads down as if we were ashamed of who we are. We aren't going to do that. We're not going to take on your religion's condemnation of our identities and our families. We aren't marching boot step to hell. If God is that fucking petty that he can't hack it that human beings come out different then he shouldn't have created us all differently. God should take lessons from Buddha. Buddha Buddha nature in all beings.

We're not going to be anyone's nigger. We want equal rights. We want your Churches out of our lives.

[ConHog]

My church has specific teaching on homosexuality that is protected by the First Amendment. When anyone interferes with that practice, I will oppose them vigorously.


All good, but your first amendment rights don't allow you to squash the rights of others. You DO agree with that don't you?

[tailfins]

All good, but your first amendment rights don't allow you to squash the rights of others. You DO agree with that don't you?


We then run into the question of what happens when two opposing rights collide. Then what is the criteria?

[SassyLady]

No, that's not what I meant. Sassy thinks gays are afraid of hets. I asked HER to prove it.
I do believe you have repeatedly pointed out that gays feel threatened by those who dislike gays..thus my conclusion that gays are afraid of hets.

[Wind Song]

I do believe you have repeatedly pointed out that gays feel threatened by those who dislike gays..thus my conclusion that gays are afraid of hets.


Nope. We're fighting back. Gone are the days when the haters get away with beating and killing gays into submission. No more "corrective rape" of lesbians. No more do we hide in shame. We have nothing to be ashamed of.

Keep the Churches out of our lives.

[Dilloduck]

Nope. We're fighting back. Gone are the days when the haters get away with beating and killing gays into submission. No more "corrective rape" of lesbians. No more do we hide in shame. We have nothing to be ashamed of.

Keep the Churches out of our lives.

You're an idiot. There are GLTB churches all over the country. Are you trying to hijack religion entirely ? One would have thought you would be happy with getting married.

[ConHog]

We then run into the question of what happens when two opposing rights collide. Then what is the criteria?

What rights do gays want that interfere with your own?

[ConHog]

Nope. We're fighting back. Gone are the days when the haters get away with beating and killing gays into submission. No more "corrective rape" of lesbians. No more do we hide in shame. We have nothing to be ashamed of.

Keep the Churches out of our lives.



Dorothy people have a right to object to your lifestyle. That's just plain and simple.

The problem in this thread is you want to restrict Dillo's rights and he wants to restrict yours. BOTH of you need to shut the fuck up and worry about your own lives.

Absolutely if he wants to rape you or beat you up you deserve the full protection of the law, but if he just stands there yelling that God hates you? Who cares...... it doesn't really hurt you.

By the same token Dillo you have no right to tell her she can't tell you that your religion is stupid and hateful for hating gays. Who gives a shit, it doesn't hurt you either.

Both of you are being as dumb as you claim the other is in this thread.

[logroller]

It does not happen "All the time", it happens maybe once a year or two, that's not "All the time", any more than Christmas happens "All the Time"/

Dislike is not a phobia, it's a dislike or hatred, but not a fear (aka a phobia). It's like calling gay people Heterophobes, it's no less disinegenuous
I'll tell you what I don't understand; why is it you need to married to get these alleged rights? Seems to me marriage should not be inclusive of some special treatment. What if someone just wants the privileges, but prefers not to be married? what gives the state the authority to define how I choose to protect my own interests?

[ConHog]

I'll tell you what I don't understand; why is it you need to married to get these alleged rights? Seems to me marriage should not be inclusive of some special treatment. What if someone just wants the privileges, but prefers not to be married? what gives the state the authority to define how I choose to protect my own interests?

That's what I'm saying. Everything associated with the government should be by contract, not by marriage license. BUT if a person does CHOOSE to get married than that church marriage license should constitute a legal contract PERIOD.

[Dilloduck]

Dorothy people have a right to object to your lifestyle. That's just plain and simple.

The problem in this thread is you want to restrict Dillo's rights and he wants to restrict yours. BOTH of you need to shut the fuck up and worry about your own lives.

Absolutely if he wants to rape you or beat you up you deserve the full protection of the law, but if he just stands there yelling that God hates you? Who cares...... it doesn't really hurt you.

By the same token Dillo you have no right to tell her she can't tell you that your religion is stupid and hateful for hating gays. Who gives a shit, it doesn't hurt you either.

Both of you are being as dumb as you claim the other is in this thread.

Please don't try to paraphrase what I'm saying. You fucked it all up.

[ConHog]

Please don't try to paraphrase what I'm saying. You fucked it all up.



Just repeating what you coming across as.

[fj1200]

We then run into the question of what happens when two opposing rights collide. Then what is the criteria?

Rights don't collide, privileges collide. Remove the governmental privilege that is causing conflict.

[Dilloduck]

Just repeating what you coming across as.

Maybe you should try to clean out your communication filters. Is WS too stupid to figure this shit out for herself?

[ConHog]

Maybe you should try to clean out your communication filters. Is WS too stupid to figure this shit out for herself?


WS has nothing to do with what I am asking YOU.

Please explain to me what rights gays want that interfere with your own.

[Dilloduck]

WS has nothing to do with what I am asking YOU.

Please explain to me what rights gays want that interfere with your own.

I never said they did. Do you see where your attempts to speak for me are confusing?

[SassyLady]

Nope. We're fighting back. Gone are the days when the haters get away with beating and killing gays into submission. No more "corrective rape" of lesbians. No more do we hide in shame. We have nothing to be ashamed of.

Keep the Churches out of our lives.
Where have I ever advocated against gays or that the church should govern your life?

[tailfins]

What rights do gays want that interfere with your own?

The right to say I think homosexual behavior is a sin. I see what has happened in Canada and don't want that to happen here.


Eventually Pastor Stephen Boissoin won but had the trauma and expense of a lengthy seven year court battle. The law can still be used again in the same manner.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2009/dec/09120407

[Wind Song]

You're an idiot. There are GLTB churches all over the country. Are you trying to hijack religion entirely ? One would have thought you would be happy with getting married.

Quite happy to be married, even though there is an active campaign to take it away from us.

Metropolitan Community Church is the only "gay" church I know of. There are certainly Churches that are friendlier toward gays than yours.

My point is I don't care what YOU think of us, I don't want YOUR narrow morality interfering with CIVIL marriage rights.

[Wind Song]

Where have I ever advocated against gays or that the church should govern your life?


Did I say you did? I never made any declarative statement about your views of church and gays.

[Wind Song]

The right to say I think homosexual behavior is a sin. I see what has happened in Canada and don't want that to happen here.


Eventually Pastor Stephen Boissoin won but had the trauma and expense of a lengthy seven year court battle. The law can still be used again in the same manner.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2009/dec/09120407

You think it's a sin to BE homosexual. That's on you. Jesus wouldn't condemn us.

[Wind Song]

Rights don't collide, privileges collide. Remove the governmental privilege that is causing conflict.

That will NEVER happen. Get real. Give us the same rights you have. Fuck this nonsense about doing away with licenses.

[ConHog]

The right to say I think homosexual behavior is a sin. I see what has happened in Canada and don't want that to happen here.


Eventually Pastor Stephen Boissoin won but had the trauma and expense of a lengthy seven year court battle. The law can still be used again in the same manner.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2009/dec/09120407

you're in NO danger of losing that, not that I've even seen anyone try.

[Wind Song]

you're in NO danger of losing that, not that I've even seen anyone try.


He's worried because he hates and fears that "homosexual people" will have equal rights.

[ConHog]

That will NEVER happen. Get real. Give us the same rights you have. Fuck this nonsense about doing away with licenses.


I'm REALLY losing patience with you on this subject.

Do you understand that if the state is out of marriage completely you get EXACTLY what you want? Your marriage would be exactly equal to my marriage in the eyes of the government. Meaning they would have to accept it as a contract and that is that.

Jesus Christ Dorothy, think it through.

[ConHog]

He's worried because he hates and fears that "homosexual people" will have equal rights.

You know what? Zip it, you aren't after equal rights, you are after FORCING others to accept your marriage. You have NO right to force that on anyone. =Get that through your head.

[Wind Song]

I'm REALLY losing patience with you on this subject.

Do you understand that if the state is out of marriage completely you get EXACTLY what you want? Your marriage would be exactly equal to my marriage in the eyes of the government. Meaning they would have to accept it as a contract and that is that.

Jesus Christ Dorothy, think it through.

I've thought it through for many years and I know this won't work. I want the damn marriage license and I want it to be valid in every state in the union. Nothing less than equal rights is what I want for myself and all others.

The government will NEVER be out of the licensing business. This whole liberatarian bullshit is a trick to cheat us out of what we deserve as full citizens of the US.

If you refer to me one more time by my real name I will stop talking to you.

[ConHog]

I've thought it through for many years and I know this won't work. I want the damn lisense and I want it to be valid in every state in the union. Nothing less than equal rights is what I want.

The government will NEVER be out of the licensing business. This whole liberatarian bullshit is a trick to cheat us out of what we deserve as full citizens of the US.

If you refer to me one more time by my real name I will stop talking to you.

The government might not ever be out of marriage, but they should be, and it would benefit YOU if you were smart enough to see it.

If the government couldn't define marriage and instead had to just recognize a church license as a valid contract and grant you all the privileges that are currently reserved for marriage, you get what you claim you want. Instead you could just sing a damn contract and call yourself marriage, who cares what the government calls it.

You're as stupid as your detractors claim you are if you can't understand this.

[tailfins]

You think it's a sin to BE homosexual. That's on you. Jesus wouldn't condemn us.

You are making things up now. Being homosexual is called temptation. It's acting on it that's sin. The Bible is quite clear on this matter.

[Wind Song]

The government might not ever be out of marriage, but they should be, and it would benefit YOU if you were smart enough to see it.

If the government couldn't define marriage and instead had to just recognize a church license as a valid contract and grant you all the privileges that are currently reserved for marriage, you get what you claim you want. Instead you could just sing a damn contract and call yourself marriage, who cares what the government calls it.

You're as stupid as your detractors claim you are if you can't understand this.

Look you stupid fuck, your whole idea is nothing but pie in the sky. We will have our marriage equality when we get licenses in all 50 states. I could care less about the churches.

You don't get it. You pretend to support equal rights for gays, but what you come with is this stupid idea that will NEVER happen, and you think gays will be satisfied to sit around and diddle libertarian nonsense? NOT in my lifetime.

[Wind Song]

You are making things up now. Being homosexual is called temptation. It's acting on it that's sin. The Bible is quite clear on this matter.

I respect your religion. I prefer you keep it out of my face and out of civil marriage law.

I don't give a shit what the fucking bible says. Get that?

[Gator Monroe]

I don't Respect the Far Left & GLBT folks aligning themselves with NAMBLA types & other unaccepted practitioners of Alternative Lifestyles

[Wind Song]

I don't Respect the Far Left & GLBT folks aligning themselves with NAMBLA types & other unaccepted practitioners of Alternative Lifestyles


Yeah? Do you personally know any gay people who support Nambla? I don't.

[tailfins]

I don't Respect the Far Left & GLBT folks aligning themselves with NAMBLA types & other unaccepted practitioners of Alternative Lifestyles


Don't let one @$$hole bait you into hyperbole. I just keep restating the same opinion as if writing a letter to the editor.

[tailfins]

I respect your religion. I prefer you keep it out of my face and out of civil marriage law.

I don't give a **** what the ******* bible says. Get that?

Vulgar little cuss, aren't you?

[Wind Song]

Vulgar little cuss, aren't you?

Yes, I am. Get over it.

Just add that to your list, you judgmental POS.

I hope and pray you have no gay relatives. Just what they need is some holier than thou asshole like you in their face. I've been dealing with folks like you my whole life.

[jimnyc]

http://lastprice.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/broken_record.jpg

[tailfins]

Just add that to your list you judgmental POS. I hope and pray you have no gay relatives.

What difference would that make? If I did, I don't know about it. Now that I think about it, whether someone is gay or not has nothing to do with it. I'm not going to have much interaction with anyone who belittles my faith. Most gay-oriented publications would be considered as creating a hostile work environment if brought into an organization and left where a traditional Christian could see it. It you're concerned about hate, just look at many gay-oriented publications.

[Wind Song]

What difference would that make? If I did, I don't know about it. Now that I think about it, whether someone is gay or not has nothing to do with it. I'm not going to have much interaction with anyone who belittles my faith. Most gay-oriented publications would be considered as creating a hostile work environment if brought into an organization and left where a traditional Christian could see it. It you're concerned about hate, just look at many gay-oriented publications.

If you have any gay relatives, I'm sure they wouldn't come out to you, knowing your prejudice.

I'm sure you wouldn't even sit next to a gay person on the subway.

[tailfins]

If you have any gay relatives, I'm sure they wouldn't come out to you, knowing your prejudice.

I'm sure you wouldn't even sit next to a gay person on the subway.

As someone who takes lots of subway rides, I only change seats if someone smells bad or starts trouble. I believe what I believe, but I don't start problems. Gay issues just aren't high on my agenda. In fact, I saw a post on here that rather annoys me. It's one that said a gay person has no business speaking in behalf of gays if they support the GOP. Does that mean gays aren't entitled to make their own political decisions?

[Wind Song]

As someone who takes lots of subway rides, I only change seats if someone smells bad or starts trouble. I believe what I believe, but I don't start problems. Gay issues just aren't high on my agenda. In fact, I saw a post on here that rather annoys me. It's one that said a gay person has no business speaking in behalf of gays if they support the GOP. Does that mean gays aren't entitled to make their own political decisions?


Have you heard of the Log Cabin Republicans? We come in all shapes, sizes, colors and political persuasions. Would you cross the street to the other side if you saw a group of gay men walking toward you on the side walk?

[tailfins]

Have you heard of the Log Cabin Republicans? We come in all shapes, sizes, colors and political persuasions. Would you cross the street to the other side if you saw a group of gay men walking toward you on the side walk?

1) I'm fine with Log Cabin if they are real Republicans, not just someone trying to round up votes for the most beatable candidate in a primary (aka saboteurs)
2) That happens all the time in Cambridge visiting the Microsoft NERD center and I don't give it a second thought.

[Wind Song]

1) I'm fine with Log Cabin if they are real Republicans, not just someone trying to round up votes for the most beatable candidate in a primary (aka saboteurs)
2) That happens all the time in Cambridge and I don't give it a second thought.


They are real Republicans.

OK, well I'm glad to hear that you can handle being on the same planet with those of us outside your moral compass.

[ConHog]

Look you stupid fuck, your whole idea is nothing but pie in the sky. We will have our marriage equality when we get licenses in all 50 states. I could care less about the churches.

You don't get it. You pretend to support equal rights for gays, but what you come with is this stupid idea that will NEVER happen, and you think gays will be satisfied to sit around and diddle libertarian nonsense? NOT in my lifetime.



You truly are fucking stupid.

Gays make up oh roughly 10% of the population. Why do you think 10% of the population is going to get all 50 states to accept gay marriage as legal? Are you really to retarded to understand that you COULD sell having NO government marriage license at all and then each church could define marriage however they want?

Oh, but you just keep screaming the same thing over and over.

[Kathianne]

There are plenty of gay Conservatives and many blog too. That doesn't mean their pov will jibe with every stance that 'evangelical conservatives' take, but like it or not, that doesn't prevent them from being 'conservative' and even, agast influential.

I'm conservative, why? Because I say so. I also tend to agree much more with the 'right' than the 'left.'

I'm also growing more libertarian as I age, though Ron Paul makes me gag! If I could work against him, I would. I'm also not libertarian enough to think we should bring all of our troops to within US borders.

I've already seen the Log Cabin Republicans mentioned, here's a very good blog. It's been named one of the most 25-100 blogs by numerous rankings:

http://www.gaypatriot.net/

[fj1200]

That will NEVER happen. Get real. Give us the same rights you have. Fuck this nonsense about doing away with licenses.

What's it like to continually miss the point?


This whole liberatarian bullshit is a trick to cheat us out of what we deserve as full citizens of the US.

Why do you continually avoid the point that all would be equal and would remove the Federal government from any action on the issue? In fact I would have the same stance even if you were to get what you want.

[Dilloduck]

Quite happy to be married, even though there is an active campaign to take it away from us.

Metropolitan Community Church is the only "gay" church I know of. There are certainly Churches that are friendlier toward gays than yours.

My point is I don't care what YOU think of us, I don't want YOUR narrow morality interfering with CIVIL marriage rights.

You'd be bored if you didn't have someone "bothering" you. :laugh2:

[logroller]

What's it like to continually miss the point?



Why do you continually avoid the point that all would be equal and would remove the Federal government from any action on the issue? In fact I would have the same stance even if you were to get what you want.

Perhaps it's best understood if we define compromise as give them what they want. And do away with the concept of mutual agreement.

[Dilloduck]

Perhaps it's best understood if we define compromise as give them what they want. And do away with the concept of mutual agreement.

NO-----they'll just ask for more--you know they will.

[SassyLady]

Did I say you did? I never made any declarative statement about your views of church and gays.

I guess confuse me at times ... you quoted me and make this statement:



Keep the Churches out of our lives.

Which led me to believe you were telling me to do not do something that I had advocated.

[Wind Song]

You truly are fucking stupid.

Gays make up oh roughly 10% of the population. Why do you think 10% of the population is going to get all 50 states to accept gay marriage as legal? Are you really to retarded to understand that you COULD sell having NO government marriage license at all and then each church could define marriage however they want?

Oh, but you just keep screaming the same thing over and over.

We'll get our rights way before you ever get this goofy idea of firing the government from marrying people.

[Wind Song]

I guess confuse me at times ... you quoted me and make this statement:




Which led me to believe you were telling me to do not do something that I had advocated.

Sorry. "Keep the churches out of our lives" was a general statement, not intended for you personally.

[fj1200]

Perhaps it's best understood if we define compromise as give them what they want. And do away with the concept of mutual agreement.

You've deftly identified liberal compromise. :laugh:

[Wind Song]

Why do you continually avoid the point that all would be equal and would remove the Federal government from any action on the issue? In fact I would have the same stance even if you were to get what you want.

It's not realistic. Your idea is pie in the sky. We don't live in Libertopia. Your proposal, AKA, "marriage privatization", is right wing bunk. It's bad for families with children.

[ConHog]

We'll get our rights way before you ever get this goofy idea of firing the government from marrying people.


Windy, you will NEVER EVER EVER get the law changed. In fact quite the opposite laws are being passed left and right making marriage between a man and a woman. I know you aren't in touch with reality, but you MUST accept this reality if you want fairness nationwide.

Not to mention common sense just tells us the government has no reason to be defining marriage to begin with.

[fj1200]

We'll get our rights way before you ever get this goofy idea of firing the government from marrying people.

Did the government marry you?

[fj1200]

It's not realistic. Your idea is pie in the sky. We don't live in Libertopia. Your proposal, AKA, "marriage privatization", is right wing bunk.

Yes, as you reiterate with little to back it other than you wanting government validation and privileges. Validation is not all its cracked up to be and privileges can be taken away as easily as given.

[Wind Song]

Windy, you will NEVER EVER EVER get the law changed. In fact quite the opposite laws are being passed left and right making marriage between a man and a woman. I know you aren't in touch with reality, but you MUST accept this reality if you want fairness nationwide.

Not to mention common sense just tells us the government has no reason to be defining marriage to begin with.

Nonsense. The law has been changed in 10 states.

[ConHog]

Yes, as you reiterate with little to back it other than you wanting government validation and privileges. Validation is not all its cracked up to be and privileges can be taken away as easily as given.



I think it's amusing the way she called it right wing bunk, when rationale people realize that right wingers don't want gays to be able to marry at all. She's a left wing bozo when it comes to gays.

[ConHog]

Nonsense. The law has been changed in 10 states.


What is 10/50? Oh that's right..........

On the other hand, the federal government could with ONE law forbid state marriage licenses and instead make everything state related contract law and oh well what do you know, no vote needed.

[fj1200]

^Some "right wingers."

[Wind Song]

I think it's amusing the way she called it right wing bunk, when rationale people realize that right wingers don't want gays to be able to marry at all. She's a left wing bozo when it comes to gays.

You're full of shit.

Government protects the natural rights of the people. Government will always have an interest in protecting the rights of women to support from the father of their children, and in protecting the rights of children to the support of their parents.

Government became involved in marriage in order to protect the rights of children. Issues of paternity, inheritance, child support, adoption and parental rights are all involved in family law.

What some slick (and IMO fake) supporters of marriage equality, want by privatizing marriage is to make marriage a religious status. This simple solution, "take the gov't out of marriage" is clever but wrong.

Here is an extensive argument support marriage equality as a civil rights issue:
http://www.sixteensmallstones.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/What-Is-Marriage.pdf

[Wind Song]

^Some "right wingers."


That would be you, wouldn't it?

[fj1200]

You're full of shit.

Government protects the natural rights of the people. Government will always have an interest in protecting the rights of women to support from the father of their children, and in protecting the rights of children to the support of their parents.

:laugh: No it doesn't. You've spent most of another thread arguing that convenience is a higher right than the life of the most vulnerable. And the rest of your post has NOTHING to do with this issue.

Marriage is not a "natural right."

[fj1200]

That would be you, wouldn't it?

Nope, I fully support you getting married by the religion of your choice and/or entering into a contractual union with your spouse.

[ConHog]

You're full of shit.

Government protects the natural rights of the people. Government will always have an interest in protecting the rights of women to support from the father of their children, and in protecting the rights of children to the support of their parents.

Government became involved in marriage in order to protect the rights of children. For that reason, government must always be involved in marriage.



What the fuck does that have to do with THIS subject?

Do you REALLY just go out of your way to piss people off? I've been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but damn..........

[ConHog]

Nope, I fully support you getting married by the religion of your choice and/or entering into a contractual union with your spouse.



Doesn't have to be a church either. If some private organization wants to "marry" people. let 'em. Doesn't matter a contract is a contract as far as the state is concerned.

[ConHog]

:laugh: No it doesn't. You've spent most of another thread arguing that convenience is a higher right than the life of the most vulnerable. And the rest of your post has NOTHING to do with this issue.

Marriage is not a "natural right."



Marriage is a right, some license from the government sure isn't though....

[Wind Song]

What the fuck does that have to do with THIS subject?

Do you REALLY just go out of your way to piss people off? I've been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but damn..........

You two knuckleheads really think you support marriage equality when you don't.

[ConHog]

.

??

By the way dumb dumb, Do the states collect child support for single mothers?

[Wind Song]

Nope, I fully support you getting married by the religion of your choice and/or entering into a contractual union with your spouse.

We're not interested in religious marriage. We want civil marriage rights.

[Wind Song]

??

By the way dumb dumb, Do the states collect child support for single mothers?


You're on ignore for the rest of the night.

[ConHog]

You two knuckleheads really think you support marriage equality when you don't.

God you're dumb.

Under what FJ and I support your marriage would be EXACTLY equal to either mine or his.

[ConHog]

You're on ignore for the rest of the night.


Translation: I just realized you have been kicking my ass tonight so I'm leaving.

[fj1200]

Doesn't have to be a church either. If some private organization wants to "marry" people. let 'em. Doesn't matter a contract is a contract as far as the state is concerned.

I believe I am on record as stating that dancing naked under a tree is acceptable.


Marriage is a right, some license from the government sure isn't though....

I believe I said it wasn't a "natural right" which it is not.

[ConHog]

I believe I am on record as stating that dancing naked under a tree is acceptable.



I believe I said it wasn't a "natural right" which it is not.

Just clarifying before WIndy came running in and posted a link to Loving

[Wind Song]

"Marriage is the union of two people (whether of the same sex or of opposite sexes) who commit to romantically loving and caring for each other and to sharing the burdens and benefits of domestic life. It is essentially a union of hearts and minds, enhanced by whatever forms of sexual intimacy both partners find agreeable. The state should recognize and regulate marriage because it has an interest in stable romantic relationships and the concrete needs of spouses and any children they may choose to rear.


Marriage involves: first, a comprehensive union of spouses; second, a special link to children; and third, norms of permanence, monogamy, and exclusivity.

All three elements point to the conjugal understanding of marriage as a social institution."

http://www.sixteensmallstones.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/What-Is-Marriage.pdf

[fj1200]

We're not interested in religious marriage. We want civil marriage rights.

I know, you want government stuff. You do have the legal right to enter into a contract.

[ConHog]

"Marriage is the union of two people (whether of the same sex or of opposite sexes) who commit to romantically loving and caring for each other and to sharing the burdens and benefits of domestic life. It is essentially a union of hearts and minds, enhanced by whatever forms of sexual intimacy both partners find agreeable. The state should recognize and regulate marriage because it has an interest in stable romantic relationships and the concrete needs of spouses and any children they may choose to rear."

http://www.sixteensmallstones.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/What-Is-Marriage.pdf



You realize you argue against yourself when you say one reason the state needs to regulate marriage is for the children, when in fact two gays can't reproduce don't you?

[fj1200]

"Marriage is the union of two people (whether of the same sex or of opposite sexes) who commit to romantically loving and caring for each other and to sharing the burdens and benefits of domestic life. It is essentially a union of hearts and minds, enhanced by whatever forms of sexual intimacy both partners find agreeable. The state should recognize and regulate marriage because it has an interest in stable romantic relationships and the concrete needs of spouses and any children they may choose to rear."

http://www.sixteensmallstones.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/What-Is-Marriage.pdf


I hope the state never has an interest in my "romantic relationship" and there is no dissolution of the contractual relationship between parents and any children they choose to rear. However, you would have to prove the state's interest in a stable relationship and that its validation does result in same.

[ConHog]

I know, you want government stuff. You do have the legal right to enter into a contract.



I wonder if she realizes more states have common law marriage laws (15 plus D.C.) than have gay marriage laws.

For you Windy, that means they have NO contract, the government just takes their word for it that they are married.

[ConHog]

I hope the state never has an interest in my "romantic relationship" and there is no dissolution of the contractual relationship between parents and any children they choose to rear. You would have to prove the state's interest in a stable relationship and that its validation does result in same.

I think she's arguing about child support, but apparently she doesn't understand that a divorce decree and a child support order are two different legal matters.

[Wind Song]

I know, you want government stuff. You do have the legal right to enter into a contract.

We want the license. Get that. Your pie in the sky idea of no law is bullshit.

Your attitude about gay marriage is that you will do anything it takes to make sure we don't have the same 1038 state and federal rights and priveleges you have.

Pretend you're gay friendly, when you're not.

There isn't ONE member here who supports our position. NOT ONE.

[logroller]

I believe I am on record as stating that dancing naked under a tree is acceptable.


Except the lambada...it's the forbidden dance.:dance:
I still think its bogus that parental rights and stability are causally connected to marriage. I really wish they were, but they're not. Gays getting married won't change that.

[ConHog]

We want the license. Get that. Your pie in the sky idea of no law is bullshit.

Your attitude about gay marriage is that you will do anything it takes to make sure we don't have the same 1038 state and federal rights and priveleges you have.

Pretend you're gay friendly, when you're not.



Okay, I've officially reversed course on Dorothy, she has no intention of EVER actually thinking... I'm done trying with you Dorothy.

You are the ONLY person here who doesn't understand that you would have EVERY right and privilege that straights have if FJ and I had our way.

[fj1200]

Marriage involves: first, a comprehensive union of spouses; second, a special link to children; and third, norms of permanence, monogamy, and exclusivity.

All three elements point to the conjugal understanding of marriage as a social institution."

http://www.sixteensmallstones.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/What-Is-Marriage.pdf



Hmm, I hate to do this, it's so... OCA like... But any truth?
<nyt_headline version="1.0" type=" ">Many Successful Gay Marriages Share an Open Secret (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/us/29sfmetro.html)</nyt_headline>

New research at San Francisco State University reveals just how common open relationships are among gay men and lesbians in the Bay Area. The Gay Couples Study has followed 556 male couples for three years — about 50 percent of those surveyed have sex outside their relationships, with the knowledge and approval of their partners.That consent is key. “With straight people, it’s called affairs or cheating,” said Colleen Hoff, the study’s principal investigator, “but with gay people it does not have such negative connotations.”The study also found open gay couples just as happy in their relationships as pairs in sexually exclusive unions, Dr. Hoff said. A different study, published in 1985, concluded that open gay relationships actually lasted longer.None of this is news in the gay community, but few will speak publicly about it. Of the dozen people in open relationships contacted for this column, no one would agree to use his or her full name, citing privacy concerns. They also worried that discussing the subject could undermine the legal fight for same-sex marriage.

[Wind Song]

Hmm, I hate to do this, it's so... OCA like... But any truth?
<NYT_HEADLINE type=" " version="1.0">Many Successful Gay Marriages Share an Open Secret (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/us/29sfmetro.html)</NYT_HEADLINE>



True for gay men but not for lesbians.

[Wind Song]

Okay, I've officially reversed course on Dorothy, she has no intention of EVER actually thinking... I'm done trying with you Dorothy.

You are the ONLY person here who doesn't understand that you would have EVERY right and privilege that straights have if FJ and I had our way.


Look at how you use my real first name as a weapon when you're angry with me. If you supported my position you wouldn't be supporting this stupid privatization idea.

[ConHog]

True for gay men but not for lesbians.


Of course its not true about lesbians....................

[fj1200]

We want the license. Get that. Your pie in the sky idea of no law is bullshit.

:slap: Who doesn't get that mindless drone? You might want to look into contract law because it's not b***s***.


Your attitude about gay marriage is that you will do anything it takes to make sure we don't have the same 1038 state and federal rights and priveleges you have.

Pretend you're gay friendly, when you're not.

There isn't ONE member here who supports our position. NOT ONE.

I will not be broken.

[ConHog]

Look at how you use my real first name as a weapon when you're angry with me. If you supported my position you wouldn't be supporting this stupid privatization idea.


I support you trotting your ass back to USMB. I've tried and tried with you, and now I'm done.

[Wind Song]

Of course its not true about lesbians....................


It's not. Check for yourself. Don't DARE believe me. I've been faithful to my wife for 27 years. It's quite common in lesbian relationships.

[fj1200]

True for gay men but not for lesbians.

So I should support gay marriage for lesbians but not gay men? And there was a lesbian example in the article.

[ConHog]

It's not. Check for yourself. Don't DARE believe me. I've been faithful to my wife for 27 years. It's quite common in lesbian relationships.



You generalize, well so will I. All lesbians sleep around.

[Wind Song]

So I should support gay marriage for lesbians but not gay men? And there was a lesbian example in the article.


No, you know perfectly well what I meant. If you truly supported gay marriage, you would support us in having marriage licenses, regardless. Gay men, lesbians and straight couples equally.

[ConHog]

So I should support gay marriage for lesbians but not gay men? And there was a lesbian example in the article.



Stop bringing up facts when debating with Windy, it's no fair.

[Wind Song]

I'm done with both of you tonight. All you want to do is fuck with my head for fun.

No friend, either of you.

[ConHog]

No, you know perfectly well what I meant. If you truly supported gay marriage, you would support us in having marriage licenses, regardless. Gay men, lesbians and straight couples equally.




we support doing away with marriage licenses for gays AND straights, what part of that are you not getting you fucking retard.

[Kathianne]

Wasn't it CH admonishing someone to give Sky time to breathe? I guess it's only for those protected, not for others. See, CH has powers no others have. He's the almighty. He tells, doesn't obey.

[fj1200]

No, you know perfectly well what I meant. If you truly supported gay marriage, you would support us in having marriage licenses, regardless. Gay men, lesbians and straight couples equally.

Actually I don't. You posted reasoning for the state to recognize marriages and 1/3 of it is specious for a segment of the population. Or you can ignore what's been posted and go back to the talking points?

I'll wait for another post indicating how much I hate gays. :rolleyes:

[Wind Song]

we support doing away with marriage licenses for gays AND straights, what part of that are you not getting you .


Exactly. We have opposite positions. You don't support gays and lesbians having civil marriage rights. We want the license.

[ConHog]

Wasn't it CH admonishing someone to give Sky time to breathe? I guess it's only for those protected, not for others. See, CH has powers no others have. He's the almighty. He tells, doesn't obey.




I've given her plenty of chances............... But thanks for trying to ruin another thread.

[Wind Song]

Actually I don't. You posted reasoning for the state to recognize marriages and 1/3 of it is specious for a segment of the population. Or you can ignore what's been posted and go back to the talking points?

I'll wait for another post indicating how much I hate gays. :rolleyes:

I'll wait for another post telling me how friendly you are to me.

[ConHog]

Exactly. We have opposite positions. You don't support gays and lesbians having civil marriage rights. We want the license.



Why? It means nothing. I'll mail you mine. Won't make me and my wife any less married.

[Wind Song]

This has gotten real ugly all of a sudden. kath, con, fj.

[fj1200]

I'll wait for another post telling me how friendly you are to me.

Have I already posted how friendly I am to you? Another lesbian couple with kids just bought a house up the street, good for them. :cool:

[Wind Song]

Have I already posted how friendly I am to you? Another lesbian couple with kids just bought a house up the street, good for them. :cool:

You don't seem terribly friendly to me tonight. What does the lesbian couple up the street think of your slap in the face position?

[fj1200]

You don't seem terribly friendly to me tonight. What does the lesbian couple up the street think of your slap in the face position?

I did almost call you a mindless drone but that was out of frustration. We haven't broached the subject but considering we would be on the same level legally I would hope they would be open-minded enough to see my position for the limited government solution that it is.

[Wind Song]

I did almost call you a mindless drone but that was out of frustration. We haven't broached the subject but considering we would be on the same level legally I would hope they would be open-minded enough to see my position for the limited government solution that it is.

One of the few things government does right is issue marriage licenses. I don't buy your "limited government solution" as the marriage equality answer.

IF it was such a great idea for gays why are no gays supporting it?

[Kathianne]

One of the few things government does right is issue marriage licenses. I don't buy your "limited government solution" as the marriage equality answer.

IF it was such a great idea for gays why are no gays supporting it?

Tell us non-gays why it's such a bad idea. I mean you are THERE.

[Wind Song]

Bottom line. Not ONE member here supports my position. NOT ONE. Why is it my entire Buddhist community supports marriage equality but not one of you do?

[fj1200]

One of the few things government does right is issue marriage licenses. I don't buy your "limited government solution" as the marriage equality answer.

IF it was such a great idea for gays why are no gays supporting it?

The government does it right but it's the core tenet of your complaints of discrimination? :laugh: The fact that they can keep a filing cabinet straight does not mean that they're doing anything right.

Has anyone else posed my proposal?

[fj1200]

Bottom line. Not ONE member here supports my position. NOT ONE. Why is it my entire Buddhist community supports marriage equality but not one of you do?

As my gay adoptor acquaintance said when adopting his child from a primarily Buddhist country (slight paraphrase), "they just don't care." And why are you ignoring DS? I'm pretty sure he's all for it.

[Kathianne]

Bottom line. Not ONE member here supports my position. NOT ONE. Why is it my entire Buddhist community supports marriage equality but not one of you do?

No Buddhists? Seriously the Buddhist stuff isn't real as far as 'supporting gay marriage' or any government thing, besides taxes. Even with that, pretty nebulous. You do know that, right?

No Sky, I'm not being mean, just saying that you need to know what you are referencing.

[ConHog]

As my gay adoptor acquaintance said when adopting his child from a primarily Buddhist country (slight paraphrase), "they just don't care." And why are you ignoring DS? I'm pretty sure he's all for it.

Dont forget jim. Hes for it to. Bahahaha

[Wind Song]

Dont forget jim. Hes for it to. Bahahaha


No one here supports marriage equality.

[ConHog]

Bottom line. Not ONE member here supports my position. NOT ONE. Why is it my entire Buddhist community supports marriage equality but not one of you do?

Correct because youre position isforce everyone to accept gay marriage and make them stop saying it isnt the same thing as straight marriage.

Nope none of us are for that

Its too bad youre too stupid to realize that our solution actually.gives you equality not just lip service

[logroller]

Actually I don't. You posted reasoning for the state to recognize marriages and 1/3 of it is specious for a segment of the population. Or you can ignore what's been posted and go back to the talking points?

I'll wait for another post indicating how much I hate gays. :rolleyes:
...and the over a thousand rights you deny them.

[Wind Song]

The government does it right but it's the core tenet of your complaints of discrimination? :laugh: The fact that they can keep a filing cabinet straight does not mean that they're doing anything right.

Has anyone else posed my proposal?

If gays and lesbians are against your proposal what does that tell you? It's you straights that are arguing to do away with marriage licenses, it's NOT a gay community position.

YOU are NOT friendly to my position at all.

[ConHog]

If gays and lesbians are against your proposal what does that tell you? It's you straights that are arguing to do away with marriage licenses, it's NOT a gay community position.

YOU are NOT friendly to my position at all.

It tellls me that some gays are stupid. Luckily for gays we realize you dont speak for the whole group

[Wind Song]

Correct because youre position isforce everyone to accept gay marriage and make them stop saying it isnt the same thing as straight marriage.

Nope none of us are for that

Its too bad youre too stupid to realize that our solution actually.gives you equality not just lip service

Don't consider your position to be anything other than supporting straight people.

[Kathianne]

If gays and lesbians are against your proposal what does that tell you? It's you straights that are arguing to do away with marriage licenses, it's NOT a gay community position.

YOU are NOT friendly to my position at all.

Does that make him, or anyone not agreeing with you position a homophone?

[ConHog]

Don't consider your position to be anything other than supporting straight people.

My position on this topic is getting the government out of something that is none of thejr concern. Has nothing to do with gay or straight

Every government employee who is relieved of worrying about marriage licences can go join the TSA. Lol

[Wind Song]

Does that make him, or anyone not agreeing with you position a homophone?

Homophone? That's funny.

No, it's not necessarily homophobic to not support marriage equality.

[SassyLady]

If gays and lesbians are against your proposal what does that tell you? It's you straights that are arguing to do away with marriage licenses, it's NOT a gay community position.

YOU are NOT friendly to my position at all.

If the majority of America is against your proposal, what does that tell you?

And, YOU are NOT friendly to OUR position at all.

[Wind Song]

My position on this topic is getting the government out of something that is none of thejr concern. Has nothing to do with gay or straight

Every government employee who is relieved of worrying about marriage licences can go join the TSA. Lol

Your position is loud and clear. Ask yourself why no gay people support it?

[Wind Song]

If the majority of America is against your proposal, what does that tell you?

And, YOU are NOT friendly to OUR position at all.

Yes, that's true. Your concern is the majority and mine is the minority.

I'm a marriage equality activist.

You're not.

We're not friends.

[fj1200]

If gays and lesbians are against your proposal what does that tell you? It's you straights that are arguing to do away with marriage licenses, it's NOT a gay community position.

YOU are NOT friendly to my position at all.

:slap: You speak for all of them now?

[logroller]

Does that make him, or anyone not agreeing with you position a homophone?
Homophone. :laugh2:

[fj1200]

Yes, that's true. Your concern is the majority and mine is the minority.

I'm a marriage equality activist.

You're not.

We're not friends.

:laugh:

[ConHog]

Your position is loud and clear. Ask yourself why no gay people support it?

I just texted my gay friend. He said he doesnt give two shits about a marriage license from the state as long as rights are protected

Ps he is married. Had to go out of state to do it. Under my plan he coild have got married in arkansas where he lives so thanks for that selfish windy

[fj1200]

I just texted my gay friend. He said he doesnt give two shits about a marriage license from the state as long as rights are protected

To which rights does he refer?

[Wind Song]

:slap: You speak for all of them now?

I didn't say that, did I?

I'm on a lot of mailing lists and I haven't seen ONE marriage equality group think your proposal is in our best interests.

Here's where we stand at this point.

NOT ONE poster here supports marriage equality. I can't stay here on this forum. There is no possibility of friendship.

[Kathianne]

Homophone? That's funny.

No, it's not necessarily homophobic to not support marriage equality.

Have to agree, my spelling error was humorous, not first or last. Alas. Alienating those that are for civil unions isn't wise. While I've no desire to see 'gay marriage' cutting off the nose to spite ...

[ConHog]

Yes, that's true. Your concern is the majority and mine is the minority.

I'm a marriage equality activist.

You're not.

We're not friends.

I seriously wouldnt want to be your real life friend. How exhausting that must be. And imagine always having to agree with someone or youre not their friend lol

[fj1200]

I didn't say that, did I?

I'm on a lot of mailing lists and I haven't seen ONE marriage equality group think your proposal is in our best interests.

Do you mean the marriage equality group that share's your vision? ;) How about those that don't share your specific vision? Can you link me to discussion points about my proposal? When they meet with opposition do they revert to their same stance?

And yes, you pretty much made the statement for all of them.

[ConHog]

To which rights does he refer?

Mostly tax and inheritance stuff. Same old boring shit you or i worry about with our spouses. Of course as we both realize those could be protected sans marriage with a contract but according to windy all gays oppose that

[ConHog]

Do you mean the marriage equality group that share's your vision? ;) How about those that don't share your specific vision? Can you link me to discussion points about my proposal? When they meet with opposition do they revert to their same stance?

Those who dont share her specific vision are not friendly to her

[SassyLady]

Yes, that's true. Your concern is the majority and mine is the minority.

I'm a marriage equality activist.

You're not.

We're not friends.

How childish to limit your friendships to only those that agree with your every stance. Come back when you grow up and can accept that people can care and respect each other, but don't have to agree on everything.

[Kathianne]

Do you mean the marriage equality group that share's your vision? ;) How about those that don't share your specific vision? Can you link me to discussion points about my proposal? When they meet with opposition do they revert to their same stance?

I've not a clue to what you are referring. However, seems we have more in common than not?

[Wind Song]

I seriously wouldnt want to be your real life friend. How exhausting that must be. And imagine always having to agree with someone or youre not their friend lol


You would be lucky to have me a friend in RL. I have wonderful RL friends. I don't have many on-line friends. Internet friends are fickle.

[logroller]

:laugh:
You Know why Buddhists can't sing the blues? They've got no soul.

[fj1200]

Mostly tax and inheritance stuff. Same old boring shit you or i worry about with our spouses. Of course as we both realize those could be protected sans marriage with a contract but according to windy all gays oppose that

I can't think of any tax ones off the top of my head but the inheritance stuff gives unlimited asset transfer between spouses which is a benefit. Not one that can't be worked around but our estate tax laws are utterly stupid anyway. Serious reworking needed there. A position statement from the FJ/LR campaign perchance???

[ConHog]

How childish to limit your friendships to only those that agree with your every stance. Come back when you grow up and can accept that people can care and respect each other, but don't have to agree on everything.

I know right. Hell no two people are ever going to agree on everything

[Wind Song]

How childish to limit your friendships to only those that agree with your every stance. Come back when you grow up and can accept that people can care and respect each other, but don't have to agree on everything.

How judgmental you are. I don't require my friends to agree with me. But honestly, I can't think of one person I'm close to who would deny me civil marriage rights. I would never be close to someone so prejudiced that they wouldn't support my wife and me as equal human beings and citizens.

[SassyLady]

You would be lucky to have me a friend in RL. I have wonderful RL friends. I don't have many on-line friends. Internet friends are fickle.

Fickle? You are the one that changes with whichever the way the wind blows. One minute you are staying, the next you are going. One minute you want to be friends, the next you are alienating everyone here. You are the fickle one. No wonder you don't have many online friends. But I wouldn't suppose you to take responsibility for that.

[fj1200]

I've not a clue to what you are referring. However, seems we have more in common than not?

It might be getting late down here. :laugh:

[Wind Song]

You Know why Buddhists can't sing the blues? They've got no soul.

That's a great joke. If you were talking to me I'd tell you that.

[SassyLady]

How judgmental you are. I don't require my friends to agree with me. But honestly, I can't think of one person I'm close to who would deny me civil marriage rights. I would never be close to someone so prejudiced that they wouldn't support my wife and me as equal human beings and citizens.

No one is denying you civil rights.

[ConHog]

You would be lucky to have me a friend in RL. I have wonderful RL friends. I don't have many on-line friends. Internet friends are fickle.

Youre calling us fickle? Thsts like oprah calling someone fat

[Wind Song]

Fickle? You are the one that changes with whichever the way the wind blows. One minute you are staying, the next you are going. One minute you want to be friends, the next you are alienating everyone here. You are the fickle one. No wonder you don't have many online friends. But I wouldn't suppose you to take responsibility for that.


Every single word in this post is an angry putdown.

[Wind Song]

Youre calling us fickle? Thsts like oprah calling someone fat

I didn't say YOU folks are fickle. I really thought this forum was different but I'm not. I created the same situation I do in every forum.

I take the most extreme political position, argue it as it my life depended on it, piss people off and then feel like I don't belong.

[Kathianne]

It might be getting late down here. :laugh:

Yeah, the more I read.

I'm beginning to regret reading those posts I did. You know those 'Kathianne is so mean' to be doing whatever. LOL!

It really takes a lot to piss me off.

Even then I can step bad, then, they prove me right.

[Dilloduck]

I didn't say YOU folks are fickle. I really thought this forum was different but I'm not. I created the same situation I do in every forum.

I take the most extreme political position, argue it as it my life depended on it, piss people off and then feel like I don't belong.

trying to prove something ?

[SassyLady]

Every single word in this post is an angry putdown.

Nope, you haven't tasted my anger yet.

[ConHog]

Every single word in this post is an angry putdown.

So then leave.

God almighty dorothy weve tried with you but honestly if you cant even admit that ending all state marriage licenses and letting churches marry whomever they want and having contract law when it come to government benefits and or privelges is equal treatment of gays and straights then frankly youare either dishonest or stupid and in either case the board loses nothing if you leave.

[fj1200]

Every single word in this post is an angry putdown.

Not every one, you just have to read it right.


You are the one that changes the way the wind blows. you want to be friends, you are everyone. You are the one. No wonder you have many friends. you to take responsibility.

Corrected for niceness. Acknowledgement and respect to Sassy. : peace:

[Wind Song]

trying to prove something ?

Like what dillo?

[ConHog]

I didn't say YOU folks are fickle. I really thought this forum was different but I'm not. I created the same situation I do in every forum.

I take the most extreme political position, argue it as it my life depended on it, piss people off and then feel like I don't belong.

Thats on you. Not us. Honestly if youre not even gonna try just leave.

[Wind Song]

Not every one, you just have to read it right.



Corrected for niceness. Acknowledgement and respect to Sassy. :peace:


How nice of you to rewrite her post.

[Wind Song]

Thats on you. Not us. Honestly if youre not even gonna try just leave.


I've been trying. Here's what happens. Damn, I want to explain it but if I try and explain what happens Sassy accuses me of taking up too much space and sucking the air out of the room.

I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.

[fj1200]

How nice of you to rewrite her post.

I am a peacemaker. Take what is useful, discard what is not.

[Kathianne]

So then leave.

God almighty dorothy weve tried with you but honestly if you cant even admit that ending all state marriage licenses and letting churches marry whomever they want and having contract law when it come to government benefits and or privelges is equal treatment of gays and straights then frankly youare either dishonest or stupid and in either case the board loses nothing if you leave.

LOL! Brick and wall. You never got what conservatives were about, nor what the left is about. You just go from post-to-post hoping to hit something right. That you garner as many responses as you do?

[fj1200]

I've been trying. Here's what happens. Damn, I want to explain it but if I try and explain what happens Sassy accuses me of taking up too much space and sucking the air out of the room.

I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.

Not if you say it once.

[logroller]

... A position statement from the FJ/LR campaign perchance???
You mean one different than the one windsong repeatedly assumes about all of us here? Which is, whatever the resident white male heterosexual says.

[SassyLady]

I'm not pissed at you WS. I am frustrated that you are so self-sabotaging. You are an over-reactive person who needs to listen just as much as you speak.

[Wind Song]

I am a peacemaker. Take what is useful, discard what is not.


OK, if you're a peacemaker then help me make peace with this forum community.

[SassyLady]

I've been trying. Here's what happens. Damn, I want to explain it but if I try and explain what happens Sassy accuses me of taking up too much space and sucking the air out of the room.

I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.

Let's pretend the doors and windows are all open. Go for it. Explain.

[fj1200]

OK, if you're a peacemaker then help me make peace with this forum community.


... say it once.

:)

[Wind Song]

I'm not pissed at you WS. I am frustrated that you are so self-sabotaging. You are an over-reactive person who needs to listen just as much as you speak.

What do you think PTSD is? I'm not an "over-reactive person". I'm a person who over reacts. I'm not THAT kind of person. Something in me reacts, but I am not that reaction. I'm the one aware of the overreaction.

Do you know the difference?

[Wind Song]

:)

Say what once?

[ConHog]

I've been trying. Here's what happens. Damn, I want to explain it but if I try and explain what happens Sassy accuses me of taking up too much space and sucking the air out of the room.

I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.

No in this thread people are complaining because you yammer on for 20 pages neve conceding a point. Speaking fo an entire group and nlasting people as not being frindly to you because they dont agree with you

I mean you flat admit you takecontroversial positions and then go out of your way tobe a pain in the ass. Hey if thats what gets hou going but then dont whine about people not liking you.

Youwant people to like you then start earning it. Heres a hint you dont earn it by blasting sassy when she says something to yopart

But the worst part is you get told the same thi g over and ober and over and you never actually learn anything

[fj1200]

You mean one different than the one windsong repeatedly assumes about all of us here? Which is, whatever the resident white male heterosexual says.

I meant on estate tax reform. It'll be a doozy, I did bring it up before though. A long time ago.

[fj1200]

Say what once?

Follow the post link.