The high cost of discipline in schools

[gabosaurus]

A friend of mine in Texas sent me this link. Knowing that this is a subject I have to deal with every day. And that it was the base of my masters thesis.

http://www.chron.com/news/article/Lawmakers-to-assess-school-discipline-programs-3519368.php

Your thoughts and opinions are welcome.

[Wind Song]

Google use of Non-Violent Communication in schools.

[Kathianne]

A friend of mine in Texas sent me this link. Knowing that this is a subject I have to deal with every day. And that it was the base of my masters thesis.

http://www.chron.com/news/article/Lawmakers-to-assess-school-discipline-programs-3519368.php

Your thoughts and opinions are welcome.

Interesting article and very true on nearly all points, this was the most spot on for me though:


..."Anytime you take a child out of normal circumstances it's going to be extra cost because of the extra cost of staff, not that we'd say it's too expensive and just do away with it," he said. "The question is how can we do it better, and how can it be effective so it isn't so expensive." ...

The article is referring mostly to BD or what is often labeled 'EMH.' The alternative schools, self-contained classrooms, and mainstreamed with an 'aid', (in actuality an adult that can remove the student from the classroom if necessary). Mostly these more extreme ways of dealing with these students happen in secondary schools.

I've often thought that the vast costs used for this, would be better spent and in actuality be much lower, if spent on parenting classes before the child even enters kindergarten. Most parents, not all, but most, do not set out to be bad parents. They certainly didn't intend for their child to be undisciplined in the sense of being at best disruptive, at worst a danger to him/herself or others.

Parents that had problems in school themselves are very likely to undermine their children without intent. There are many forms it may take, from lack of interest to fostering disrespect of teachers or education in general to warning the kids of bullies or acting 'smart.' Illiterate parents may feel they can't foster the academics or perhaps even fear their children succeeding would lead to their being diminished in their child's eyes.

If they were given the tools to help their children succeed, they would be succeeding themselves. If the kids have the right start in kindergarten, they are more likely to have a positive experience going forward.

[Wind Song]

This is a story shared with me by a mother of three sons who had been studying and implementing NVC with her family for a few years:

“When David was about 13 ½ years old, he was really angry one day and about to hurt one of his 10-year-old twin brothers as they sat near each other on the couch. So, I did what I now do whenever physical violence is about to happen between them and got in the middle of the two.

David was breathing heavily and had his fists clenched as he sat in a chair next to me. His brother was on the other side of me on the couch. I went with habit and started to tell David about anger management and how he needed to go for a walk or go to his room until he cooled off.
He continued to breathe heavily and clench his fists.

Then his brother actually started using NVC! He said: “David, did you just want to be included?”
I realized then that what David needed was empathy and repeated his brother’s guess. I saw David’s fist relax just slightly. I guessed again, “are you needing to feel that you belong?” His fist relaxed even more and his breathing began to slow down some.

Then I guessed that his need for belonging had been unmet for a really long time with his twin brothers. David’s fist relaxed more along with his body.
Then I guessed that maybe if his need for belonging were met his need for love would be met, and tears began to roll down his cheeks.

I will be forever grateful for the tools of NVC for allowing me to get to this place of awareness and healing with my son.”
http://www.growingupeasier.org/index.php?main_page=page&id=163&chapter=3

[Wind Song]

Here is an article describing how NVC is used in schools as a discipline approach that is non-punishing, non-coercive, non-judging.

http://www.cnvc.org/sites/cnvc.org/files/NVC_Research_Files/NVC%20in%20Schools/MUTUAL_EDUCATION_GIRAFFE_LANGUAGE_IN_KINDERGARTENS _SCHOOLS_Yugoslavia.pdf (http://www.cnvc.org/sites/cnvc.org/files/NVC_Research_Files/NVC%20in%20Schools/MUTUAL_EDUCATION_GIRAFFE_LANGUAGE_IN_KINDERGARTENS _SCHOOLS_Yugoslavia.pdf)

[ConHog]

This is a story shared with me by a mother of three sons who had been studying and implementing NVC with her family for a few years:

“When David was about 13 ½ years old, he was really angry one day and about to hurt one of his 10-year-old twin brothers as they sat near each other on the couch. So, I did what I now do whenever physical violence is about to happen between them and got in the middle of the two.

David was breathing heavily and had his fists clenched as he sat in a chair next to me. His brother was on the other side of me on the couch. I went with habit and started to tell David about anger management and how he needed to go for a walk or go to his room until he cooled off.
He continued to breathe heavily and clench his fists.

Then his brother actually started using NVC! He said: “David, did you just want to be included?”
I realized then that what David needed was empathy and repeated his brother’s guess. I saw David’s fist relax just slightly. I guessed again, “are you needing to feel that you belong?” His fist relaxed even more and his breathing began to slow down some.

Then I guessed that his need for belonging had been unmet for a really long time with his twin brothers. David’s fist relaxed more along with his body.
Then I guessed that maybe if his need for belonging were met his need for love would be met, and tears began to roll down his cheeks.

I will be forever grateful for the tools of NVC for allowing me to get to this place of awareness and healing with my son.”
http://www.growingupeasier.org/index.php?main_page=page&id=163&chapter=3

Youre doing it again. Get on topic.

I think kath has a good point about educating parents. Isnt it amazing thanks. We have sex ed and drivers ed clases in school bit no parents ed?

[Wind Song]

Youre doing it again. Get on topic.

I think kath has a good point about educating parents. Isnt it amazing thanks. We have sex ed and drivers ed clases in school bit no parents ed?

The topic is the high cost of discipline in the schools. NVC represents a inexpensive solution that is being implented in schools. This interests for two reasons, I work in schools as a substitute teacher and I attended a high school where riot police were a constant presence.

[Kathianne]

Gabby, the article was interesting, indeed. Seems to me that addressing the needs of the youngest, ages 2-4, which in most cases where problems begin. Providing parenting courses, which certainly could include alternatives to corporal punishment and the most effective ways to talk to children, is likely to be the most cost effective and best practice to be had.

Basic course would include teaching age appropriate expectations of behaviors and responsibilities. At the core of 'discipline' is self-discipline. With gradual mastery of self-discipline comes increasingly positive self-esteem, with increasing positive self-image comes the belief one can eventually overcome adversity. Helping parents increase their own confidence in raising responsible children, results in better circumstances for both parent and child, which results in less discipline problems at school.

A good parenting program, including updates, would probably cost less in 5 years, than placing one child into an alternative learning environment.

[Wind Song]

Youre doing it again. Get on topic.

I think kath has a good point about educating parents. Isnt it amazing thanks. We have sex ed and drivers ed clases in school bit no parents ed?

Consider the changes that could happen if parents were educated in Non-Violent Communication, as well as teachers, principals and law enforcement.

[ConHog]

The topic is the high cost of discipline in the schools. NVC represents a inexpensive solution that is being implented in schools. This interests for two reasons, I work in schools as a substitute teacher and I attended a high school where riot police were a constant presence.

Ley me tell you ehat ive noticed. Ws the ability to paddle djsruptive children has eroded the number of disruptive children has grown.

All ykur new touchy feely crap is crap dorothy a school cant control 1200 students with 100 teachers if those students do t have any fear

[Wind Song]

Ley me tell you ehat ive noticed. Ws the ability to paddle djsruptive children has eroded the number of disruptive children has grown.

All ykur new touchy feely crap is crap dorothy a school cant control 1200 students with 100 teachers if those students do t have any fear


I disagree. Peace Studies work in high schools.

http://www.nonviolentsolution.org/images/Approaches-to-NV-Edu.pdf

[tailfins]

Consider the changes that could happen if parents were educated in Non-Violent Communication, as well as teachers, principals and law enforcement.

Much in the same way the Buffet Rule is the Alternative Minimum Tax repackaged, what you speak of sounds like Political Correctness repackaged. I would be willing to lay down money that there are highly paid "NVC" consultants. Now all we need is some judge to start pushing this as case settlements and HR departments to mandate it so protected class manipulators can clear out their competition (AKA talented people that focus on quality work and not ladder climbing).

Since moving to New England, I have learned a lot about reducing conflict. Boston snobbishness serves a purpose. When you mind your own business and generally avoid socializing, there are fewer problems and fewer conflicts. You should be happy about it: It resulted in gay marriage in Massachusetts. The mentality is "I don't care", "I don't want to talk about it", and "Don't make it part of my life". The funny thing is that once people see that you "get it" and spare them unnecessary communication they become helpful and courteous.