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SassyLady
04-28-2012, 02:13 AM
Wind Song ... women's issue that concerns me.




‘THEY HATE US’: WRITER CRITICIZED FOR PROVOCATIVE ARTICLE ON THE ‘TOXIC MIX OF CULTURE & RELIGION’ HARMING MIDDLE EASTERN WOMEN



[*=left]Posted on April 27, 2012 at 8:18am by http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/userphoto/billyhallowell.thumbnail.png Billy Hallowell (http://www.theblaze.com/blog/author/billyhallowell)
[*=left]
[*=left]Foreign Policy Magazine’s cover story for its May/June 2012 issue, entitled “Why Do They Hate Us? (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/04/23/why_do_they_hate_us?page=0,0)“, is certainly stirring up controversy. The article, which provides a lens into the lives of women who reside in Arab countries, reinforces much of what we already know about the challenges they face in the region. But some women — particularly feminist Muslims who would typically be praising the fact that these tragic details are being exposed — are criticizing the article’s writer, Egyptian-American Mona Eltahawy.



The piece delves into the ugly side of fundamentalism and covers female genital mutilation, physical violence that has worked its way into the legal code and the overall denial of fundamental rights in the Arab world. Eltahawy’s words do anything but hide the problematic mindset she believes has taken hold in the Middle East.

“Name me an Arab country, and I’ll recite a litany of abuses fueled by a toxic mix of culture and religion that few seem willing or able to disentangle lest they blaspheme or offend,” she writes (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/04/23/why_do_they_hate_us?page=0,0). “When more than 90 percent of ever-married women in Egypt — including my mother and all but one of her six sisters — have had their genitals cut in the name of modesty, then surely we must all blaspheme.”

Eltahawy was also careful to state her view that many nations — including the United States — also mistreat women (or, at the least, do not treat them equally). But her claim, when it comes to the Middle East, is that Arab societies hate women. From economics to human rights abuses, the writer tackles many of her qualms (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/04/23/why_do_they_hate_us?page=full) with the region, while tying all of the elements back to an overall issue she sees embedded in the culture:

Not a single Arab country ranks in the top 100 in the World Economic Forum’s Global Gender Gap Report (http://www.weforum.org/issues/global-gender-gap), putting the region as a whole solidly at the planet’s rock bottom. Poor or rich, we all hate our women. Neighbors Saudi Arabia and Yemen, for instance, might be eons apart when it comes to GDP, but only four places separate them on the index, with the kingdom at 131 and Yemen coming in at 135 out of 135 countries. Morocco, often touted for its “progressive” family law (a 2005 report by Western “experts” called (http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Best%20Practices%20%28English%29.pdf) it “an example for Muslim countries aiming to integrate into modern society”), ranks 129; according to Morocco’s Ministry of Justice, 41,098 girls under age 18 were married there in 2010.
How much does Saudi Arabia hate women?

So much so that 15 girls died (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1874471.stm) in a school fire in Mecca in 2002, after “morality police” barred them from fleeing the burning building — and kept firefighters from rescuing them — because the girls were not wearing headscarves and cloaks required in public. And nothing happened. No one was put on trial. Parents were silenced. The only concession to the horror was that girls’ education was quietly taken away by then-Crown Prince Abdullah from the Salafi zealots, who have nonetheless managed to retain their vise-like grip on the kingdom’s education system writ large.

And the aforementioned information is only a sliver of the examples and facts she provides in the article. When it comes to her concluding thoughts, Eltahawy urges individuals to stand up against the widespread hate (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/04/23/why_do_they_hate_us?page=full) that has been thrown in females’ direction:

First we stop pretending. Call out the hate for what it is. Resist cultural relativism and know that even in countries undergoing revolutions and uprisings, women will remain the cheapest bargaining chips. You — the outside world — will be told that it’s our “culture” and “religion” to do X, Y, or Z to women. Understand that whoever deemed it as such was never a woman. The Arab uprisings may have been sparked by an Arab man — Mohamed Bouazizi, the Tunisian street vendor who set himself on fire in desperation — but they will be finished by Arab women. [...]

We are more than our headscarves and our hymens. Listen to those of us fighting. Amplify the voices of the region and poke the hatred in its eye. There was a time when being an Islamist was the most vulnerable political position in Egypt and Tunisia. Understand that now it very well might be Woman. As it always has been.



Although compelling, the author’s claim of this “toxic mix of culture and religion” in the Middle East is being met with resistance from those who see the article as an overall simplification of the issue at hand. Some even maintain that it reinforces negative stereotypes and provides a basis through which Western politicians can more readily rail against Arab society.

More.........
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/they-hate-us-writer-criticized-for-provocative-article-on-the-toxic-mix-of-culture-religion-harming-middle-eastern-women/

Wind Song
04-28-2012, 09:51 AM
The difficult experiences were all the harder to write about, contributors said, knowing they could provide ammunition to those who paint all Muslims as somehow un-
American.


“It is doubly hard for Muslim women, because we want to complain about our men without everyone turning around to say, ‘See, I knew they were all crazy terrorists,’ ” said Ms. Noorbakhsh, a 31-year-old comedian, who after describing her sex education talk goes on to detail losing her virginity in college. “You leave yourself vulnerable to people using your voice to attack your community, so we kind of censor our own voices.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/24/books/in-love-inshallah-american-muslim-women-reveal-lives.html?pagewanted=all

Dilloduck
04-28-2012, 10:14 AM
Much like Black women not reporting rape for fear that it will harm the civil rights movement. Listen folks. You don't get to have it both ways. If you don't speak the truth you lose and I feel no pity for you. People make hard choices everyday. You are not special.

Wind Song
04-28-2012, 10:26 AM
Much like Black women not reporting rape for fear that it will harm the civil rights movement. Listen folks. You don't get to have it both ways. If you don't speak the truth you lose and I feel no pity for you. People make hard choices everyday. You are not special.


Black women certainly are special. Everyone is special. Our lives matter. Too bad you can't see that.

jimnyc
04-28-2012, 10:33 AM
Muslim women being abused is an epidemic around the world. It's common business in so many places around the world for Muslim men to abuse their women. Even books teaching them how to do so.

Wind Song
04-28-2012, 10:35 AM
Yes, Muslim women are oppressed. Women are oppressed in this world. Religion is often oppressive. What you fail to see, is that these women want to remain Muslims.

They need our support, not condemnation of their entire religion and world.

jimnyc
04-28-2012, 10:36 AM
Yes, Muslim women are oppressed. Women are oppressed in this world. Religion is often oppressive. What you fail to see, is that these women want to remain Muslims.

They need our support, not condemnation of their entire religion and world.

How do I fail to see anything? I never touched that subject, so why do you just make shit up?

Wind Song
04-28-2012, 10:43 AM
How do I fail to see anything? I never touched that subject, so why do you just make shit up?

You condemn the entire religion of Islam.

jimnyc
04-28-2012, 10:44 AM
You condemn the entire religion of Islam.

Where did I do that?

Wind Song
04-28-2012, 10:56 AM
Where did I do that?


Aren't you continually Muslim bashing?

jimnyc
04-28-2012, 11:00 AM
Aren't you continually Muslim bashing?

I bash radicals, terrorists and people who abuse their women. It's not my fault that so damned many Muslims fit into those categories. But I generally don't bash ALL Muslims and the American and other peaceful Muslims.

But considering we are in THIS thread and touching ONE topic, I'm unsure as to how that applies anyway. Weren't we discussing the oppression of Muslim women? And I made an innocent but firm comment about the topic.

Wind Song
04-28-2012, 11:03 AM
I bash radicals, terrorists and people who abuse their women. It's not my fault that so damned many Muslims fit into those categories. But I generally don't bash ALL Muslims and the American and other peaceful Muslims.

But considering we are in THIS thread and touching ONE topic, I'm unsure as to how that applies anyway. Weren't we discussing the oppression of Muslim women? And I made an innocent but firm comment about the topic.

Don't you generally criticize the ENTIRE RELIGION of Islam? Sure you do.

jimnyc
04-28-2012, 11:04 AM
Don't you generally criticize the ENTIRE RELIGION of Islam? Sure you do.

And don't you generally criticize ALL men? Of course you do. But neither have anything to do with THIS thread and topic. Please stop playing the victim with everything I post and remain on topic.

Trigg
04-28-2012, 11:05 AM
The biggest problem IMHO seems to be that the radicals are in charge in MOST muslim countries.

As soon as this happens womens rights go down the toilet and they have no rights.

Muslim women are the ones who are going to have to fix this from the inside out. They're going to have to get men on their side, since they're the ones in power, and hopefully in time improve their situation.

ConHog
04-28-2012, 11:44 AM
Sky werent you the one jumping jims ass yesterday for not just talking about one group that the the OP was about but trying to horn in on a thread?

This thread is about the abuse of Muslim women take your other shit to another thread

And yes abuse of muslim women is a pandemic

DragonStryk72
04-29-2012, 12:17 AM
Don't you generally criticize the ENTIRE RELIGION of Islam? Sure you do.

No, he doesn't. Move on, and quit trying to tell him how he feels

Gator Monroe
04-29-2012, 12:19 AM
The Muslim Women can Breed the Bad Ones outta existence ...:clap:

Wind Song
04-29-2012, 10:50 AM
And don't you generally criticize ALL men? Of course you do. But neither have anything to do with THIS thread and topic. Please stop playing the victim with everything I post and remain on topic.


All men? No. Just you.

Wind Song
04-29-2012, 10:51 AM
No, he doesn't. Move on, and quit trying to tell him how he feels


OK.

Wind Song
04-29-2012, 10:52 AM
Sky werent you the one jumping jims ass yesterday for not just talking about one group that the the OP was about but trying to horn in on a thread?

This thread is about the abuse of Muslim women take your other shit to another thread

And yes abuse of muslim women is a pandemic

Abuse of women is abhorrent to me no matter who does it. My point is that American Muslims don't treat their women poorly the way they treat them in Arabic countries.

gabosaurus
04-29-2012, 11:13 AM
My God has said "I am the God of all people."

Notice that he didn't make any exceptions.

Wind Song
04-29-2012, 11:15 AM
My God has said "I am the God of all people."

Notice that he didn't make any exceptions.

That means he includes Muslims.

Dilloduck
04-29-2012, 11:41 AM
That means he includes Muslims.

And pedophiles and rapists and bigots---

Wind Song
04-29-2012, 11:48 AM
And pedophiles and rapists and bigots---


That's right. God loves all his children.

DragonStryk72
04-29-2012, 01:39 PM
All men? No. Just you.

I thought it was our natures to play the good ol boys network, and not care about women's issues?

ConHog
04-29-2012, 02:12 PM
That's right. God loves all his children.

Of course He love all of His children. That doesn't mean He loves everything they do.

Wind Song
04-29-2012, 08:49 PM
I thought it was our natures to play the good ol boys network, and not care about women's issues?

No, it's not in your natures. It's a habit. It's nepotism.

Wind Song
04-29-2012, 08:50 PM
Of course He love all of His children. That doesn't mean He loves everything they do.


I really doubt God is busy watching and judging what every consenting adult is doing in bed. That would make God a voyeur.

cadet
04-29-2012, 09:05 PM
I really doubt God is busy watching and judging what every consenting adult is doing in bed. That would make God a voyeur.

Well, for your information. yes. yes he is. He see's every one of your sins, and judges you according.

Wind Song
04-29-2012, 09:07 PM
Well, for your information. yes. yes he is. He see's every one of your sins, and judges you according.


Oh, I'm not worried about God's judgment. The rest of you keep me busy enough.

Dilloduck
04-29-2012, 09:08 PM
Oh, I'm not worried about God's judgment. The rest of you keep me busy enough.

You're welcome.

Wind Song
04-29-2012, 09:09 PM
Really Dillo?

I doubt you spend anytime at all thinking about what other people do in their bedrooms. I sure don't!

Dilloduck
04-29-2012, 09:33 PM
No no no--wrong again. You are welcome for keeping you busy. Lord knows what kind of trouble you would get into if it wasn't for us.

Wind Song
04-29-2012, 10:35 PM
No no no--wrong again. You are welcome for keeping you busy. Lord knows what kind of trouble you would get into if it wasn't for us.

I see.

DragonStryk72
04-30-2012, 01:20 AM
No, it's not in your natures. It's a habit. It's nepotism.

You flat out said it was in our nature, so are you now retracting that?

And no, it isn't in my nature. You want to make that grandiose claim? Back it up with proof.

Wind Song
04-30-2012, 09:10 AM
You flat out said it was in our nature, so are you now retracting that?

And no, it isn't in my nature. You want to make that grandiose claim? Back it up with proof.


Yes, it's not in the "nature", the "good ol boy" network is a habit.

DragonStryk72
04-30-2012, 11:19 AM
Yes, it's not in the "nature", the "good ol boy" network is a habit.

Of men. But Women as just as bad about it. We'll look just at the role of the Stay at Home Dad. Now, a stay at home Mom is a time-honored and respected tradition. When it's the dad staying home though, he gets seen as a deadbeat, somehow, and largely by women. In Victorian time, it was women who were the most ardent about enforcing gender rules on other women.

Wind Song
04-30-2012, 11:22 AM
Of men. But Women as just as bad about it. We'll look just at the role of the Stay at Home Dad. Now, a stay at home Mom is a time-honored and respected tradition. When it's the dad staying home though, he gets seen as a deadbeat, somehow, and largely by women. In Victorian time, it was women who were the most ardent about enforcing gender rules on other women.

You're painting with a broad brush. I don't feel that way about men who stay home to parent while the mother works. Marriage is a partnership.

"Dead beat dads" are often divorced men trying to punish their ex-wives by skipping out on child support. At least, when I use the term, "dead beat dads", that's what I mean, NOT men who are parenting full time at home.

DragonStryk72
04-30-2012, 11:25 AM
You're painting with a broad brush. I don't feel that way about men who stay home to parent while the mother works. Marriage is a partnership.

Dead beat dads are often divorced men trying to punish their ex-wives by skipping out on child support.

You mean you dislike when people paint with a broad brush? Yeah, amazingly, neither do I, so would you please stop doing it? That's sort of the whole point I'm making. You continue to portray men very badly, and paint them with broad strokes, which is insulting.

And how did deadbeat dad become the topic, when I specifically mentioned stay at home dads who are obviously on-hand for raising their children?

Wind Song
04-30-2012, 11:27 AM
You mean you dislike when people paint with a broad brush? Yeah, amazingly, neither do I, so would you please stop doing it? That's sort of the whole point I'm making. You continue to portray men very badly, and paint them with broad strokes, which is insulting.

And how did deadbeat dad become the topic, when I specifically mentioned stay at home dads who are obviously on-hand for raising their children?


I didn't initiate "deadbeat dad" language. Who did?

"When it's the dad staying home though, he gets seen as a deadbeat, somehow, and largely by women." DS quote

DragonStryk72
04-30-2012, 11:33 AM
I didn't initiate "deadbeat dad" language. Who did?

"When it's the dad staying home though, he gets seen as a deadbeat, somehow, and largely by women." DS quote

Right here:


You're painting with a broad brush. I don't feel that way about men who stay home to parent while the mother works. Marriage is a partnership.

"Dead beat dads" are often divorced men trying to punish their ex-wives by skipping out on child support. At least, when I use the term, "dead beat dads", that's what I mean, NOT men who are parenting full time at home.

And you still paint men in broad strokes, a point you decided to ignore, WS.

Wind Song
04-30-2012, 02:50 PM
Right here:



And you still paint men in broad strokes, a point you decided to ignore, WS.


Some men ARE dead beat dads. They refuse to pay child support in order to punish their ex-wives.

DragonStryk72
04-30-2012, 08:41 PM
Some men ARE dead beat dads. They refuse to pay child support in order to punish their ex-wives.

You didn't say some, that's what you're using now because you got busted on it. As well, believe it or not, there are other reasons men become "deadbeat" dads. What of the women who purposely use pregnancy to trap a man? What of the women who abuse child support for their own benefit? Some women do that, but should I judge all women by that, or represent such in my posting? No, of course not, that would be bigoted.

Wind Song
05-01-2012, 07:12 AM
You didn't say some, that's what you're using now because you got busted on it. As well, believe it or not, there are other reasons men become "deadbeat" dads. What of the women who purposely use pregnancy to trap a man? What of the women who abuse child support for their own benefit? Some women do that, but should I judge all women by that, or represent such in my posting? No, of course not, that would be bigoted.

Read my post. I just said "some". I have a friend who works in support services. Some men deliberately stop working so as to not have to pay child support. They do that to punish their exes.

I didn't make up the term, "deadbeat dads".

SassyLady
05-01-2012, 06:01 PM
Read my post. I just said "some". I have a friend who works in support services. Some men deliberately stop working so as to not have to pay child support. They do that to punish their exes.

I didn't make up the term, "deadbeat dads".

To punish their exes for what?