Ford sets new record for number of Ford Focus Electric cars sold in Feb, March 2012

[Little-Acorn]

The MSRP (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price) for the basic Ford Focus (gasoline) is $16,500.

MSRP for the Ford Focus Electric is $39,200.

Number of new Ford Focus Electric cars sold in February and March 2012: ZERO.

The "Electric Car" is definitely an idea whose time has come.

(not!)

Yet due to ever-increasing government regulations and restrictions on Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) and emissions standards, manufacturers are being forced to build zero-emission cars such as Electric Cars.

Whenever you run across a totally ridiculous situation, you can always count on the root cause being GOVERNMENT.

-----------------------------------------------

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120417/AUTO01/204170368/Battery-powered-autos-proving-tough-sell?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE


April 17, 2012 at 1:00 am
Battery-powered autos proving to be a tough sell
By David Shepardson
Detroit News Washington Bureau

Washington— Electric vehicle sales have been slow out of the box, despite marketing hype, government incentives and the hopes of green car advocates.

Total sales last year were 17,425, which is less than 0.1 percent of the U.S. car and light truck market.

Nonetheless, automakers show no signs of pulling back their multibillion-dollar bets: They need electric cars to meet tough new fuel-efficiency standards. About a dozen new plug-ins and fully electric cars will go on sale in the next year.

Auto executives point optimistically to March, when electric cars had their best-ever sales month: Nearly 4,000 vehicles sold in the United States. Still, three in every 1,000 cars drove off dealer lots under battery power.

News in recent months has done little to reassure skeptical buyers: General Motors Co. slowed production of its plug-in Chevrolet Volt. Two crash-test Volts caught fire; a government investigation ultimately found no safety problems. Politicians ridiculed electric cars and called for an end to government assistance. Battery companies and suppliers laid off hundreds of employees, while several electric vehicle startups went out of business or struggle to survive.

Even with gas prices flirting near $4 a gallon nationwide, most consumers remain reluctant. Plug-ins or fully electric cars cost $8,000 to $20,000 more than comparable gasoline versions, and it can take years or decades to recoup the higher initial cost.

Drivers worry about limited driving range in fully electric cars. Even some executives admit doubt.

"Right now, from a cost standpoint and a performance standpoint — range for customers — I don't think EVs are ready for primetime," said Toyota Motor USA Sales CEO Jim Lentz.

Toyota will launch two electric vehicles later this year. Toyota sold nearly 900 of its new plug-in Prius in March, but that was 3 percent of the more than 28,000 plug-in and gasoline-electric vehicles that Prius sold last month.

Ford Motor Co. sold about 12 Focus Electrics in December and January to fleet customers — and none in February and March, said Erich Merkle, a Ford spokesman. The Dearborn automaker plans a slow ramp-up as it begins production this spring for retail sales; the New York area and California are the first markets.

Analysts forecast modest gains.

[Little-Acorn]

How hard is it to get outsold by the Chevy Volt... which isn't even being BUILT today???

[ConHog]

I didn't even know they built an electric Focus.

[Thunderknuckles]

Just thought I'd mention I just bought a used 2010 Ford Focus for 12k as my commuter car. Currently getting 35.5 mpg.
I would love a new Focus Electric with the 100mpg rating but at 40k it won't ever happen.

[ConHog]

Just thought I'd mention I just bought a used 2010 Ford Focus for 12k as my commuter car. Currently getting 35.5 mpg.
I would love a new Focus Electric with the 100mpg rating but at 40k it won't ever happen.

How many miles ? That's a pretty good price for a 2 year old vehicle.

[Thunderknuckles]

How many miles ? That's a pretty good price for a 2 year old vehicle.
35k when I bought it.

[ConHog]

35k when I bought it.

That's a pretty good buy.

[Anton Chigurh]

zero-emission carsHaven't been invented yet. The electricity comes from somewhere, where emissions ARE output.

This watermelon scheme is nothing but a con and a boondoggle.

[ConHog]

Haven't been invented yet. The electricity comes from somewhere, where emissions ARE output.

This watermelon scheme is nothing but a con and a boondoggle.

That's what I don't get , don't these peple understand that the bulk of our electricity still comes from coal plants? Now true if you're getting all of your electricity from a clean source you could theoretically have a zero emissions vehicle, but with the way the electric grid is set up in this country who would know for sure if their power was all clean.

[Anton Chigurh]

That's what I don't get , don't these peple understand that the bulk of our electricity still comes from coal plants? Now true if you're getting all of your electricity from a clean source you could theoretically have a zero emissions vehicle, but with the way the electric grid is set up in this country who would know for sure if their power was all clean.Actually no, you really wouldn't because during the design, testing and manufacturing process, you have a carbon footprint there too. When it rolls out of the dealer lot it has a huge carbon deficit.

To offset that footprint, that deficit - the electric vehicle would have to magically have free electricity for something like half a million travel miles!

[ConHog]

Actually no, you really wouldn't because during the design, testing and manufacturing process, you have a carbon footprint there too. When it rolls out of the dealer lot it has a huge carbon deficit.

To offset that footprint, that deficit - the electric vehicle would have to magically have free electricity for something like half a million travel miles!

Except that no one thinks of manufacturing when they talk about vehicle emissions.

[Anton Chigurh]

Except that no one thinks of manufacturing when they talk about vehicle emissions.Using the greenie combine's "carbon footprint" equations on the so-called "green" solutions sucks donut?

It doesn't matter what people think of, facts are facts.

Most people seem to think electricity is just some free thing we pluck out of the air too, so we informed people, inform.

[ConHog]

Using the greenie combine's "carbon footprint" equations on the so-called "green" solutions sucks donut?

It doesn't matter what people think of, facts are facts.

Most people seem to think electricity is just some free thing we pluck out of the air too, so we informed people, inform.

But the terms "low emissions" "ultra low emissions" and "zero emissions" simply apply to the EPA loop, which does NOT account for the manufacturing process. If it did, then no vehicle EVER would be eve low emissions given the sheer amount of petroleum based products used to build one in the first place.

They are two different topics. No one claims that a CHevy Volt production facility has a smaller carbon footprint per unit than even a Ford F250 super duty 4X4 plant does. But no one can argue that a Volt would kick an F250's ass in vehicle emission's testing.

[darin]

Meh...I have a >3000lbs car, with a 1.3L getting 18mpg. Nothing will make me interested in spending more than 25k on a car, unless powerball happens.

I buy cars I love. My next car, probably? HMMWV, or mid 80s 2.5T 6x6 "Deuce & a half" :)

[Anton Chigurh]

But the terms "low emissions" "ultra low emissions" and "zero emissions" simply apply to the EPA loop, which does NOT account for the manufacturing process. If it did, then no vehicle EVER would be eve low emissions given the sheer amount of petroleum based products used to build one in the first place.That's why they want to get rid of them completely.

Oh and - it's "green" if the gubmint says so, right?

[ConHog]

That's why they want to get rid of them completely.

Oh and - it's "green" if the gubmint says so, right?

I admit I don't listen to everything Obama has to say, but I've never heard him suggest building a petroleum free vehicle. In fact I believe that at this point petroleum free and high gas mileage are simply incompatible because of the need to cut weight by use of lightweight petroleum based materials.

[Anton Chigurh]

I admit I don't listen to everything Obama has to say, but I've never heard him suggest building a petroleum free vehicle. In fact I believe that at this point petroleum free and high gas mileage are simply incompatible because of the need to cut weight by use of lightweight petroleum based materials.You should read his books.

[DragonStryk72]

Honestly, the real problem is our government is being too wishy-washy about this whole thing. They don't want to go whole hog into it, but at the same time, they don't want to let it go entirely, either. See, this is one of the main reasons that Brazil managed to pull energy independence while we haven't: They got behind it, and went with it in a united manner.

If we really want to deal with getting these EVs to sell, then here's a thought: Build the infrastructure that supports them. It's all well and good that there are cars that run on electricity, but if the only place to get fueled is at home, then it's just not going to be getting bought. People need vehicles that have utility to them, and while the batteries are getting better, they still need to be recharged.

The other side of it is the marketing of them, which is lackluster at best, and does nothing to point out the long term savings of the vehicles. People can only make informed decisions if they are, in fact, informed.

All in all, fossil fuels are getting ready to go away, but if we want to embrace that ideology, then we need to do the work required to get there, and these sorts of half measures are only going to make the whole process take longer, and make it more expensive all around.

[darin]

The other side of it is the marketing of them, which is lackluster at best, and does nothing to point out the long term savings of the vehicles. People can only make informed decisions if they are, in fact, informed.



I think people realize the long-term savings of fuel...Generally, most hybrids start 'saving money' for folks after close to 100,000 miles down the rode (when the price premium starts to make up the difference). With regard to pure-electric - those vehicles simply transfer cost from the fuel pump to the state-run/controlled energy meter on the house.

The thing is, people don't need "information" about these cars. People don't MAKE good decisions based on information. People make good decisions based on wisdom. Wisdom says, today's e-cars are political hype, generally. Wisdom says we may want to think twice about ANYTHING the gov't says is 'good for us'.

[ConHog]

I think people realize the long-term savings of fuel...Generally, most hybrids start 'saving money' for folks after close to 100,000 miles down the rode (when the price premium starts to make up the difference). With regard to pure-electric - those vehicles simply transfer cost from the fuel pump to the state-run/controlled energy meter on the house.

The thing is, people don't need "information" about these cars. People don't MAKE good decisions based on information. People make good decisions based on wisdom. Wisdom says, today's e-cars are political hype, generally. Wisdom says we may want to think twice about ANYTHING the gov't says is 'good for us'.

Wisdom is something that most folks don't have and thus most people don't make good decisions.

At this point hybrids and or electrics are all about feel good, not facts. The real fact is we aren't running out of oil. They've been saying the same shit since the 1960's. There's plenty of oil folks. And as far as emissions are concerned, well today's vehicles are about as clean burning as transportation can be.

[DragonStryk72]

I think people realize the long-term savings of fuel...Generally, most hybrids start 'saving money' for folks after close to 100,000 miles down the rode (when the price premium starts to make up the difference). With regard to pure-electric - those vehicles simply transfer cost from the fuel pump to the state-run/controlled energy meter on the house.

The thing is, people don't need "information" about these cars. People don't MAKE good decisions based on information. People make good decisions based on wisdom. Wisdom says, today's e-cars are political hype, generally. Wisdom says we may want to think twice about ANYTHING the gov't says is 'good for us'.

Um, you're the only one I've heard with that thoughtline, dmp. Most people that I've talked to, including you, don't realize the savings go beyond the gas price. There's also decreased maintenance costs to consider, since you won't be having to change out the oil, and the brake are done differently so that you won't need to be replacing them nearly as much.

The thing is that the wattage required for the car is far less than the cost of gas. Most of it is simple convenience issues. People don't want a car they can't take on a roadtrip. See, that's why hybrids are doing better than the EVs, you can still get places.

As to CH, you're correct, we're not running out of oil, but why does that matter? Did we wait for all the horses to die off before we adopted the car? No, of course not, so why would we wait for all the oil to be gone before we get off of oil?

Right now, EVs are not convenient enough for people to overlook the higher price tag, and they won't be convenient until the government does what they actually need to do and put in the infrastructure for them. That, however, would take actual leadership, which I don't see happening for now.

[fj1200]

... the government does what they actually need to do and put in the infrastructure for them.

That's not their job.

[ConHog]

Um, you're the only one I've heard with that thoughtline, dmp. Most people that I've talked to, including you, don't realize the savings go beyond the gas price. There's also decreased maintenance costs to consider, since you won't be having to change out the oil, and the brake are done differently so that you won't need to be replacing them nearly as much.

The thing is that the wattage required for the car is far less than the cost of gas. Most of it is simple convenience issues. People don't want a car they can't take on a roadtrip. See, that's why hybrids are doing better than the EVs, you can still get places.

As to CH, you're correct, we're not running out of oil, but why does that matter? Did we wait for all the horses to die off before we adopted the car? No, of course not, so why would we wait for all the oil to be gone before we get off of oil?

Right now, EVs are not convenient enough for people to overlook the higher price tag, and they won't be convenient until the government does what they actually need to do and put in the infrastructure for them. That, however, would take actual leadership, which I don't see happening for now.

Mayhaps you should do some reading. A Toyota Prius will need a new battery eventually, that is a $10K item. You can do a LOT of repairs on a run of the mill ICE vehicle for $10K.

[DragonStryk72]

That's not their job.

I never said it was their job, I said it's what they need to do if they're serious about this. I'm just tired of the half in, half out method they keep using. Throw some incentives for gas stations to start carrying even 1 solar powered recharge station so EVs can recharge.

[DragonStryk72]

Mayhaps you should do some reading. A Toyota Prius will need a new battery eventually, that is a $10K item. You can do a LOT of repairs on a run of the mill ICE vehicle for $10K.

Yeah, after 5 to 7 years might need to replace the battery, but then, care lifespans are only about 5 years at this point, so it's not that big an issue for most, since it will still be cheaper than getting a new car, and the savings will, again, completely outstrip the other costs. But most would simply get a new car, despite having a perfectly serviceable one because ,yeah, we do that now.

[ConHog]

Yeah, after 5 to 7 years might need to replace the battery, but then, care lifespans are only about 5 years at this point, so it's not that big an issue for most, since it will still be cheaper than getting a new car, and the savings will, again, completely outstrip the other costs. But most would simply get a new car, despite having a perfectly serviceable one because ,yeah, we do that now.

yes, because EVERYONE buys a new vehicle every 5 years, no such thing as the used car market.

[fj1200]

I never said it was their job, I said it's what they need to do if they're serious about this. I'm just tired of the half in, half out method they keep using. Throw some incentives for gas stations to start carrying even 1 solar powered recharge station so EVs can recharge.

No. If the powers that be think we use to much gas then they should jack up the gas tax. You're right that their current methods are half way measures but jumping in the wrong direction will only cost extra money and push the market somewhere that it will have to retreat from. They could also stop subsidizing highway construction that further incentivizes the car culture.

[ConHog]

No. If the powers that be think we use to much gas then they should jack up the gas tax. You're right that their current methods are half way measures but jumping in the wrong direction will only cost extra money and push the market somewhere that it will have to retreat from. They could also stop subsidizing highway construction that further incentivizes the car culture.

Jump the gas tax to get people to use less oil? Wouldn't that ALSO be the government interfering in the "free" market?

Guess it's somehow different when it's something YOU are okay with............ :poke:

[fj1200]

Jump the gas tax to get people to use less oil? Wouldn't that ALSO be the government interfering in the "free" market?

Guess it's somehow different when it's something YOU are okay with............ :poke:

The government is well within its rights/responsibilities to regulate negative externalities. CAFE standards are a joke put out by cowardly politicians, at least a gas tax is a more effective alternative. Besides any government action is by definition an interference in a free market. Or would you like the government to stop building/funding the interstate highway system as an alternative?

[DragonStryk72]

yes, because EVERYONE buys a new vehicle every 5 years, no such thing as the used car market.

Um, no just the large majority. Replacing the battery is still vastly cheaper than a new car, and you'll that back in the other savings. So, should we stop selling everything that not everyone buy?

[ConHog]

The government is well within its rights/responsibilities to regulate negative externalities. CAFE standards are a joke put out by cowardly politicians, at least a gas tax is a more effective alternative. Besides any government action is by definition an interference in a free market. Or would you like the government to stop building/funding the interstate highway system as an alternative?

I was just poking you a little. I of course agree that the government has the right to tax gasoline. I don't know that I'd call the CAFE standards a joke though. The way they are implemented now might be, but at the time they were first introduced automobile manufacturers didn't give a shit about fuel mileage and likely never would have. Much like labor laws or what have you.