Puberty

[jimnyc]

What's a typical age for kids to start? My son is 11 and is about 6 months into the process or so... And I'm also wondering if this can at all explain his mood swings? He can be the most loving kid in the world when he wants something, but if I ask him to get off of the computer you would think I severed a finger from his body!

We've had a few little discussions about "things" but he's a little shy like his Daddy and doesn't ask much, just listens for now. And hell, I'm an idiot, so I don't know if the things I tell him are correct or not!

Anything special I should be concerned about in this stage?

[Abbey Marie]

We always kept the computers in a common area in our home. There is so much garbage out there, and 11 is too young for seeing it.

[jimnyc]

We always kept the computers in a common area in our home. There is so much garbage out there, and 11 is too young for seeing it.

Jordan has access, but we have a program to restrict 80% of the internet from him! LOL He can play a few silly games. Hell, it won't even load facebook or myspace for him!

[Gator Monroe]

I think the Alex DeLarge of " A Clockwork Orange " Book was like 12 or 13 in the Beginning of the Story ( Get Ready Jimmy):2up:

[sundaydriver]

It's you all over again, isn't it?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sQEb9TSACY&feature=player_embedded

[Gator Monroe]

The Lord of the Flies Years ( Poor Jimmy):laugh2:

[Wind Song]

I hear from parents that boys are easier than girls. Not sure that's true.

[sundaydriver]

I hear from parents that boys are easier than girls. Not sure that's true.

Mom said; It was more work raising me than my three sisters combined. It's true, I was a bad, bad boy! :laugh:

[Kathianne]

Jordan has access, but we have a program to restrict 80% of the internet from him! LOL He can play a few silly games. Hell, it won't even load facebook or myspace for him!

I have to go with Abbey, kids in the long run appreciate that parents were willing to be the 'dogs' when push came. Internet below the age of at least 16 shouldn't be a free for all. Keep the chains, it's your last chance.

[Mr. P]

I hear from parents that boys are easier than girls. Not sure that's true.

Sure it's true. With a son you only need be concerned with "one" dick. With a daughter you have to be concerned about hundreds of dicks!

[Shadow]

What's a typical age for kids to start? My son is 11 and is about 6 months into the process or so... And I'm also wondering if this can at all explain his mood swings? He can be the most loving kid in the world when he wants something, but if I ask him to get off of the computer you would think I severed a finger from his body!

We've had a few little discussions about "things" but he's a little shy like his Daddy and doesn't ask much, just listens for now. And hell, I'm an idiot, so I don't know if the things I tell him are correct or not!

Anything special I should be concerned about in this stage?

For my kids about 10/11. But...it doesn't always account for the all of the mood swings. I guess just kind of judge if they seem like something he can't really control,even though he knows he gets them . My daughter had huge mood swings...sometimes violent...kicked in our heavy wooden front door. I had her evaluated by a family therapist. Turns out she was actually Bi Polar and I didn't know it. Now she gets moody and crabby sometimes,but the huge mood swings are gone.

[Shadow]

We always kept the computers in a common area in our home. There is so much garbage out there, and 11 is too young for seeing it.

Me too one computer in the den...and they didn't get to use it very often. Did this until my kids hit highschool...then I bought them both a netbook to use for homework, because I got tired of sharing my computer with them. :)

[logroller]

I hear from parents that boys are easier than girls. Not sure that's true.

Depends on the age IMO; my two year old boy is more of handful than both my daughters combined at that age. From my personal experience and observations, I've come to believe girls are the most challenging during from 9-18, peaking during puberty. Boys tend to be the opposite, and get into more trouble earlier on(under 9), and later on in life (18-100). :laugh:

[Mr. P]

It's you all over again, isn't it?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sQEb9TSACY&feature=player_embedded

:laugh::laugh::laugh: :2up:

[Noir]

Anywhere from 11/12 onwards, though girls tend to start a little ealier than guys, and in more specific instances I do know a girl who started at 9.

[Noir]

I have to go with Abbey, kids in the long run appreciate that parents were willing to be the 'dogs' when push came. Internet below the age of at least 16 shouldn't be a free for all. Keep the chains, it's your last chance.

I sure as hell wouldn't of appreciated my dad being 'the dogs' I much more appreciated the respect given in a 'you have the freedom, I trust you not to abuse it' way he had. Maybe that's just me though, but I think not.

In any sense, you'll never be able to keep someone restricted from the internet past 13 if they have any wit. I do believe Jim posted before from an iPod Touch? There's an in if ever there was, free, private, unrestricted internet that's insta-on. Impossible to regulate even if the kid is sat in the same room as you on the opposite chair.

[cadet]

What's a typical age for kids to start? My son is 11 and is about 6 months into the process or so... And I'm also wondering if this can at all explain his mood swings? He can be the most loving kid in the world when he wants something, but if I ask him to get off of the computer you would think I severed a finger from his body!

We've had a few little discussions about "things" but he's a little shy like his Daddy and doesn't ask much, just listens for now. And hell, I'm an idiot, so I don't know if the things I tell him are correct or not!

Anything special I should be concerned about in this stage?

It kinda depends, i don't think i hit puberty till 14.
And my little bro has this sixth grader friend with a mustache... all depends.

I'd be concerned about getting him into lifting/exercising habits. his muscles will start to grow reeeeal fast during puberty.

[jimnyc]

For my kids about 10/11. But...it doesn't always account for the all of the mood swings. I guess just kind of judge if they seem like something he can't really control,even though he knows he gets them . My daughter had huge mood swings...sometimes violent...kicked in our heavy wooden front door. I had her evaluated by a family therapist. Turns out she was actually Bi Polar and I didn't know it. Now she gets moody and crabby sometimes,but the huge mood swings are gone.

This is one of my concerns. I have bipolar and am concerned as to whether or not I may have passed it on to the little egghead.

[jimnyc]

It's you all over again, isn't it?

Thanks for the video! :thumb:

But yeah, he looks more like his Mom, but he's got Dad all over him when he acts out or speaks certain ways. And I'm proud to have passed on the love of boobies! :coffee:

[jimnyc]

I have to go with Abbey, kids in the long run appreciate that parents were willing to be the 'dogs' when push came. Internet below the age of at least 16 shouldn't be a free for all. Keep the chains, it's your last chance.

I'm strict with the boy, and monitor him way more than he's aware of... But he'll turn on a game that others here like, adults (Minecraft) and sit there for HOURS. And yes, we try to control that as well, but he finds ways to get back there!

[jimnyc]

I sure as hell wouldn't of appreciated my dad being 'the dogs' I much more appreciated the respect given in a 'you have the freedom, I trust you not to abuse it' way he had. Maybe that's just me though, but I think not.

In any sense, you'll never be able to keep someone restricted from the internet past 13 if they have any wit. I do believe Jim posted before from an iPod Touch? There's an in if ever there was, free, private, unrestricted internet that's insta-on. Impossible to regulate even if the kid is sat in the same room as you on the opposite chair.

And now we have an Ipad 3 and an Acer tablet! But all 3 can easily have the internet turned off and password protected. AND, don't ask me how because I suck with Apple products, my wife is able to track what he does on there. I don't think specific websites, but what programs he uses, at what time and for how long. But yeppers, if unchecked, he can get away with more on those devices. But I can also take his IP address or MAC address and mess with him at the router level if I have to. :laugh2:

[Trigg]

This is one of my concerns. I have bipolar and am concerned as to whether or not I may have passed it on to the little egghead.

My daughter had HUGE mood swings (she's 16 now). We'd be laughing and joking and I swear someone would flip and switch and she was pissed and yelling. I never knew what was going to set her off.

She got REAL good at push-ups, those became my go to punishment for being mouthy. She laughs about how she used to be able to do 60 pushups in about a minute. For her it started around 13 and lasted for 2 years. She's great almost all the time now, still has her mouthy moments, but her mood swings are gone.

My oldest was bored and everything was stupid for about 6 months, and then he was fine.

My 14 yr old has his moments, but so far nothing to scary.

Some kids are just harder during puberty than others. Don't worry though it gets better.

[Noir]

And now we have an Ipad 3 and an Acer tablet! But all 3 can easily have the internet turned off and password protected. AND, don't ask me how because I suck with Apple products, my wife is able to track what he does on there. I don't think specific websites, but what programs he uses, at what time and for how long. But yeppers, if unchecked, he can get away with more on those devices. But I can also take his IP address or MAC address and mess with him at the router level if I have to. :laugh2:

I'ma bit of a MacFag and i can think of no such thing that would give your wife that knowledge...the only thing that could tell you about running apps would be which apps are running in the background, but that really tells you nothing. Anyways as i said at 11 you'd be safe enough but by the time he's 13 a minimal level of tech wit would make an iPod an unrestricted web tool.

[jimnyc]

I'ma bit of a MacFag and i can think of no such thing that would give your wife that knowledge...the only thing that could tell you about running apps would be which apps are running in the background, but that really tells you nothing. Anyways as i said at 11 you'd be safe enough but by the time he's 13 a minimal level of tech wit would make an iPod an unrestricted web tool.

I'll have to get specifics from her later... But I know she has "half" of his Itouch locked down a lots. You need a 4 digit passcode to unlock it, and then he can access the internet. Without it, he can only use the apps that are installed, which the meanie forever checks out on him. But I think it's an app she has, that is password protected, that allows for some sort of monitoring. On the desktop, we each have our own profile, and his login is like using a lame library computer where half of it is useless. My machine is really the only computer that isn't protected in some way. He asks me every now and again, when Mommy isn't home, if he can use mine. And being the great, strict parent that works as a team with my wife, I allow him to sucker me. I have no will power on certain fronts.

[gabosaurus]

What's a typical age for kids to start? My son is 11 and is about 6 months into the process or so... And I'm also wondering if this can at all explain his mood swings? He can be the most loving kid in the world when he wants something, but if I ask him to get off of the computer you would think I severed a finger from his body!

We've had a few little discussions about "things" but he's a little shy like his Daddy and doesn't ask much, just listens for now. And hell, I'm an idiot, so I don't know if the things I tell him are correct or not!

Anything special I should be concerned about in this stage?

Finally, a question that I know a lot about. Having studied it extensively in college.
There is NO "typical" age for kids to go through puberty. The most telling sign is to remember when you went through puberty. Heredity explains a lot.
Kids are always going to rebel. There is an old story that tells a lot: From birth to around 9 or 10, your parents are the smartest, most wonderful people in the world. From age 11 to around 18 (depending when the kid moves out), parents become the stupidest, most illogical and irration people in the world. After the kids moves out, and especially when they start a family, kids once again realize how smart their parents were/are.

[jimnyc]

Finally, a question that I know a lot about. Having studied it extensively in college.
There is NO "typical" age for kids to go through puberty. The most telling sign is to remember when you went through puberty. Heredity explains a lot.
Kids are always going to rebel. There is an old story that tells a lot: From birth to around 9 or 10, your parents are the smartest, most wonderful people in the world. From age 11 to around 18 (depending when the kid moves out), parents become the stupidest, most illogical and irration people in the world. After the kids moves out, and especially when they start a family, kids once again realize how smart their parents were/are.

Hell, I have no idea when it was for me, but I thought it was much later than that, like when I was about 14 or so, but could easily have been earlier.

And yep, he thinks me and the woman are retarded sometimes. I try and teach him things, whether it's homework, or a "life lesson", and he just looks at me like I have ears for eyes. He knows EVERYTYHING and has seen it all already!

[Trigg]

Hell, I have no idea when it was for me, but I thought it was much later than that, like when I was about 14 or so, but could easily have been earlier.

And yep, he thinks me and the woman are retarded sometimes. I try and teach him things, whether it's homework, or a "life lesson", and he just looks at me like I have ears for eyes. He knows EVERYTYHING and has seen it all already!


welcome to the wonderful world of teenagers. I have 3 in my house right now.

[Abbey Marie]

Hell, I have no idea when it was for me, but I thought it was much later than that, like when I was about 14 or so, but could easily have been earlier.

And yep, he thinks me and the woman are retarded sometimes. I try and teach him things, whether it's homework, or a "life lesson", and he just looks at me like I have ears for eyes. He knows EVERYTYHING and has seen it all already!

I would have to say that my 20 year old daughter still thinks we know nothing. Just last week, she actually asked me specifics about my boyfriend(s) in college. I optimistically take that to mean she finally thinks I have had a couple of relevant/interesting experiences in my life. Hooray!

[Abbey Marie]

welcome to the wonderful world of teenagers. I have 3 in my house right now.

Blessings and/or drinks for Trigg!

[Kathianne]

welcome to the wonderful world of teenagers. I have 3 in my house right now.

Been there, done that. Wasn't a pretty site, except when it was good. ;) I think 1 child might be more difficult, though I don't have that first hand experience. There's something to be said for being 'overwhelmed' that causes one to run up the white flag for all non-essential issues.

[Kathianne]

I would have to say that my 20 year old daughter still thinks we know nothing. Just last week, she actually asked me specifics about my boyfriend(s) in college. I optimistically take that to mean she finally thinks I have had a couple of relevant/interesting experiences in my life. Hooray!

Good news! She's beginning to see that you 'might' have had a life before mom!

[Kathianne]

I sure as hell wouldn't of appreciated my dad being 'the dogs' I much more appreciated the respect given in a 'you have the freedom, I trust you not to abuse it' way he had. Maybe that's just me though, but I think not.

In any sense, you'll never be able to keep someone restricted from the internet past 13 if they have any wit. I do believe Jim posted before from an iPod Touch? There's an in if ever there was, free, private, unrestricted internet that's insta-on. Impossible to regulate even if the kid is sat in the same room as you on the opposite chair.

A 13 year old wouldn't have an iPod touch or a smart phone unless their parents gifted such to them.

Really Noir, you've never struck me as a 'normal' for you age person, in any case a US adolescent. LOL! There's a world of difference in temperament and expectations here and there.

[Kathianne]

I'm strict with the boy, and monitor him way more than he's aware of... But he'll turn on a game that others here like, adults (Minecraft) and sit there for HOURS. And yes, we try to control that as well, but he finds ways to get back there!

He's lucky to have a parent more into internet stuff than normal. Seriously. I had some skilz, but not like their father, he would have been able to deal with better. I did find though that making the access 'public' in the house, to be the best choice for a bluff.

[Kathianne]

This is sorta on and off topic. For the last two days one of my classes were assigned an essay on heroes/role models. I only 'helped' or read 7 rough drafts, though there are 17 in the class, the other 10 weren't doing the essay or not far enough along to help. All chose their dad. Funny thing, in jr. high they choose their moms, high school, dads. Note to dads, you are way more important than you think!

Over and over again, I read about how their dads worked to support the family, emphasized education, (funny thing some of these kids were failing. The class was 'remedial' and all black and Hispanic), treated their mom well and cared about their kids. They all addressed their dads laying down 'the law.' No back talking and no denigrating mother or women in general. This was boys and girls.

[Noir]

A 13 year old wouldn't have an iPod touch or a smart phone unless their parents gifted such to them.

Really Noir, you've never struck me as a 'normal' for you age person, in any case a US adolescent. LOL! There's a world of difference in temperament and expectations here and there.

What're ya trying to say, that i'm some sort of freak? =P

and true, however, its reasonable to assume that a 13 year old will have access to and iPod Touch, Smartphone, Playstation, Xbox, Wii, iPad, Nintendo DS and so forth. All have their 'security' features and all have their work-arounds.

[Kathianne]

What're ya trying to say, that i'm some sort of freak? =P

and true, however, its reasonable to assume that a 13 year old will have access to and iPod Touch, Smartphone, Playstation, Xbox, Wii, iPad, Nintendo DS and so forth. All have their 'security' features and all have their work-arounds.

It's not reasonable to assume a 13 year old will have such access to Touch or Smartphone or iPad. As for the game counsels, again that is up to the parents whether or not they are monitored.

[Trigg]

It's not reasonable to assume a 13 year old will have such access to Touch or Smartphone or iPad. As for the game counsels, again that is up to the parents whether or not they are monitored.

I don't even have access to a touch, smartphone or iPad. :laugh2:


But, that's mainly because I'm cheap, also, I think those things are frivilous and I don't need them. My children certaily don't need them.

[Kathianne]

I don't even have access to a touch, smartphone or iPad. :laugh2:


But, that's mainly because I'm cheap, also, I think those things are frivilous and I don't need them. My children certaily don't need them.

Yep. I'm not one of those that believe kids having lots of toys or books, clothes, etc., leads to 'spoiling' the child. I was happy to give my kids plenty of 'stuff' and so did their grandparents, etc. What causes spoiling imo is lack of developing self-discipline in the children. If they don't care for their possessions, they lose them. I would not however give my children free access to things that could harm them or others. I think the 'smart' technology is awesome, has value, but would not allow my kids to have unmonitored access. That was true with video games and internet when they were under 16.

[Wind Song]

Mom said; It was more work raising me than my three sisters combined. It's true, I was a bad, bad boy! :laugh:


May you blessed to be a parent!

[Trinity]

From age 11 to around 18 (depending when the kid moves out), parents become the stupidest, most illogical and irration people in the world. After the kids moves out, and especially when they start a family, kids once again realize how smart their parents were/are.


That's funny...I remember thinking that same thing when I was a teen, and as an adult I have come to realize my dad was pretty smart, my mom well let's just say she's on another planet.

as for my teen boys almost 14 and almost 16 they actually both value my opinions and thoughts on different subjects..... and have said to me many times thanks mom thats why I always come to you with things cause your smart about this stuff....but I raised my kids in a different manner then my parents raised me.

[Kathianne]

Finally, a question that I know a lot about. Having studied it extensively in college.
There is NO "typical" age for kids to go through puberty. The most telling sign is to remember when you went through puberty. Heredity explains a lot.
Kids are always going to rebel. There is an old story that tells a lot: From birth to around 9 or 10, your parents are the smartest, most wonderful people in the world. From age 11 to around 18 (depending when the kid moves out), parents become the stupidest, most illogical and irration people in the world. After the kids moves out, and especially when they start a family, kids once again realize how smart their parents were/are.

Not all kids rebel. At either end of the curve, kids do not rebel. This includes the kids whose parents put little regard for school as a priority. It also includes those that put a lot of weight on the same. Kids with 'high educational aspirations and little problems with parent's values' tend to go to highly rated schools.

[SassyLady]

What're ya trying to say, that i'm some sort of freak? =P

and true, however, its reasonable to assume that a 13 year old will have access to and iPod Touch, Smartphone, Playstation, Xbox, Wii, iPad, Nintendo DS and so forth. All have their 'security' features and all have their work-arounds.

May be true, but hopefully a child is raised to trust their parent and if their parent tells them do not "work-around" the security feature, then that child should trust their parent. Unless, of course, you believe children are wiser and more mature and should always go against their parents rules.

[Noir]

May be true, but hopefully a child is raised to trust their parent and if their parent tells them do not "work-around" the security feature, then that child should trust their parent. Unless, of course, you believe children are wiser and more mature and should always go against their parents rules.

...that's a sort of weird dynamic going on there, I mean, the parent basically outlines how they don't trust their son/daughter enough and have put a restriction on the Internet, and then expect the son/daughter to respect their lack of trust by not finding a workaround? Respect and trust go both ways.

[Trigg]

...that's a sort of weird dynamic going on there, I mean, the parent basically outlines how they don't trust their son/daughter enough and have put a restriction on the Internet, and then expect the son/daughter to respect their lack of trust by not finding a workaround? Respect and trust go both ways.

It's called parenting.

Putting restrictions and blocks on the computer are for a childs own good, there are a lot of weirdos out there who prey on inexperienced kids.

As a parent you put the restrictions out there, and as a parent, if the child works around those restrictions there are consequences.

There are lots of teens out there who don't challenge the rules. But there are just as many if not more who will do everything they can to rebel. Not every teen is as easy, as you obviously are, on their parents.

[Noir]

It's called parenting.

Putting restrictions and blocks on the computer are for a childs own good, there are a lot of weirdos out there who prey on inexperienced kids.

As a parent you put the restrictions out there, and as a parent, if the child works around those restrictions there are consequences.

There are lots of teens out there who don't challenge the rules. But there are just as many if not more who will do everything they can to rebel. Not every teen is as easy, as you obviously are, on their parents.

Is it any wonder they'd want to rebel if 'you can't be trusted' is the default position on parenting?

[SassyLady]

...that's a sort of weird dynamic going on there, I mean, the parent basically outlines how they don't trust their son/daughter enough and have put a restriction on the Internet, and then expect the son/daughter to respect their lack of trust by not finding a workaround? Respect and trust go both ways.

No, Noir, it is not weird.

I used to be a guest speaker at discussions regarding incest and sexual abuse. The standard was "it's never too early to educate your children about stranger danger". Except, my premise was that the minute we start explaining what can happen to children, so that we can sufficiently get their attention about the situation, they have lost a little piece of their innocence. So, instead of society protecting the innocent because it cannot contain it's own ugliness, we expect our children to "grow up fast" and learn to protect themselves.

I did not/do not trust my children/grandchildren to know when to recognize the ugliness they encounter because I've tried to help them maintain as much of their innocence for as long as possible. They don't have access to the internet, they don't get to watch YouTube or have social networking accounts. Everyone they need to "socialize" with are either a part of their family or friends from school they can connect with through face-to-face interactions.

They deserve to be children...and they deserve to enjoy being children relishing in the delight of exploring their worlds. They shouldn't be given something that will give them access to the potentially dangerous and ugliness found in the adult world on the Internet.

My grandchildren are monitored very close .... and none of them are in a hurry to grow up because they actually still enjoy childhood.

Perhaps your parents felt it was better to put the adult responsibility of deciding what was best for you on your shoulders at a young age, hoping you would make the right decision. We happen to believe it is our responsibility as parents to let our children experience as much of childhood as possible and give them age appropriate responsibilities as they grow and are able to handle it.

So, I think a child should trust their parents to know when it's best for them to move from just enjoying life to the next stage of being mature enough to handle what they find on the internet.

[Noir]

No, Noir, it is not weird.

I used to be a guest speaker at discussions regarding incest and sexual abuse. The standard was "it's never too early to educate your children about stranger danger". Except, my premise was that the minute we start explaining what can happen to children, so that we can sufficiently get their attention about the situation, they have lost a little piece of their innocence. So, instead of society protecting the innocent because it cannot contain it's own ugliness, we expect our children to "grow up fast" and learn to protect themselves.

I did not/do not trust my children/grandchildren to know when to recognize the ugliness they encounter because I've tried to help them maintain as much of their innocence for as long as possible. They don't have access to the internet, they don't get to watch YouTube or have social networking accounts. Everyone they need to "socialize" with are either a part of their family or friends from school they can connect with through face-to-face interactions.

They deserve to be children...and they deserve to enjoy being children relishing in the delight of exploring their worlds. They shouldn't be given something that will give them access to the potentially dangerous and ugliness found in the adult world on the Internet.

My grandchildren are monitored very close .... and none of them are in a hurry to grow up because they actually still enjoy childhood.

Perhaps your parents felt it was better to put the adult responsibility of deciding what was best for you on your shoulders at a young age, hoping you would make the right decision. We happen to believe it is our responsibility as parents to let our children experience as much of childhood as possible and give them age appropriate responsibilities as they grow and are able to handle it.

So, I think a child should trust their parents to know when it's best for them to move from just enjoying life to the next stage of being mature enough to handle what they find on the internet.

Theres an implication in there that as I was not as 'innocent' as you'd of liked that I did not have my chance to be a child, or enjoy my childhood etc, which is Ofcourse nonsense.

Also, I must ask if this innocence paradigm of yours in limited to sexual discovery, or if it also covers other 'ugly' things, like violence?

[Kathianne]

Is it any wonder they'd want to rebel if 'you can't be trusted' is the default position on parenting?

Actually, I liked to show my children that I trusted them and their judgment by giving them the freedom to ride their bikes far from home. To babysit at 12 or 13, knowing they could call me if they needed help. To do their homework, pack their lunches, and get themselves up in the morning.

I did not think that 12-15 year olds were ready to take on pedophiles or cultists. Nope, that is a parent's job.

[Trigg]

Is it any wonder they'd want to rebel if 'you can't be trusted' is the default position on parenting?


Children mature at different rates.

Trust is earned not given.

I've never had to put blocks on my computer since my kids have never given me a reason to think they're doing something wrong. I make sure the history is NOT tampered with and I keep the home computer in a central location so that I can monitor what they are doing on it.

I am their friend on facebook so I know what they're typing and what other's are typing to them.

However, if a problem arises, if they don't listen to me (I have a 14yr old who I forsee challenges with) and go on sites I disapprove of blocks will be forthcoming.

I have my whole life to be my childrens friend. Right now it's my job to keep them safe and bring them up to be honest, hardworking adults.

My 19 and 16 yr olds are excellent kids who made it through puberty and are going to be amazing people. So right now I see no reason to change.

[SassyLady]

Theres an implication in there that as I was not as 'innocent' as you'd of liked that I did not have my chance to be a child, or enjoy my childhood etc, which is Ofcourse nonsense.

Also, I must ask if this innocence paradigm of yours in limited to sexual discovery, or if it also covers other 'ugly' things, like violence?

I'm sorry if you think I meant you were not innocent. You gave the impression that your parents gave you freedoms and trusted you to know what was appropriate or not.

My implication was that some parents put the responsibility of choosing what influences their children on the shoulders of their children, rather than limiting the influences to age appropriateness.

It covers anything and everything that is not age appropriate which means it is not limited to sexual discovery. It could be something as simple as discovering that the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist. Why must you think it's only about sexual discovery or violence. Has it been that long since you embraced innocence?

[Noir]

I'm sorry if you think I meant you were not innocent. You gave the impression that your parents gave you freedoms and trusted you to know what was appropriate or not.

My implication was that some parents put the responsibility of choosing what influences their children on the shoulders of their children, rather than limiting the influences to age appropriateness.

It covers anything and everything that is not age appropriate which means it is not limited to sexual discovery. It could be something as simple as discovering that the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist. Why must you think it's only about sexual discovery or violence. Has it been that long since you embraced innocence?

Indeed, which leads me to (surpirse!) religion, growing up where I have done meant I was not only taught Protestant religion as fact from I started school but I was also sent to Sunday church and bible study lessons. One of my most vivid memory's of these groups was when I was 7, and taught about Noah's Ark, I remember it so well because it upset and confused me greatly the idea that the animals that has done nothing wrong were needlessly drowned but for the two of each saved.

Now obviously since then I have come to conclude that the chances that actually happened are unlikey, and even if it did happen I do not have to praise the god that did it (unlike at the time were I was convinced that it did happen and that I should be thankful it did) but in what sense would you regard that a loss of innocence? And if you do, would you/ have you taken measures to ensure that your children/grand-children need not consider the needless slaughter of a countless animals? (nevermind praise such slaughter)

[SassyLady]

Indeed, which leads me to (surpirse!) religion, growing up where I have done meant I was not only taught Protestant religion as fact from I started school but I was also sent to Sunday church and bible study lessons. One of my most vivid memory's of these groups was when I was 7, and taught about Noah's Ark, I remember it so well because it upset and confused me greatly the idea that the animals that has done nothing wrong were needlessly drowned but for the two of each saved.

Now obviously since then I have come to conclude that the chances that actually happened are unlikey, and even if it did happen I do not have to praise the god that did it (unlike at the time were I was convinced that it did happen and that I should be thankful it did) but in what sense would you regard that a loss of innocence? And if you do, would you/ have you taken measures to ensure that your children/grand-children need not consider the needless slaughter of a countless animals? (nevermind praise such slaughter)

This will not be a popular answer, Noir, but the Bible was not a book in my house. When I thought my children were old enough to understand the concept of religion, we explored together. My children were not brought up in any religion, but in the concept that there is good and evil and we have a choice which we want to be.

PS ... I did let my children watch Bambi and it was a great vehicle to discuss life and death, friendship and survival. And, yes, it did show animals being killed but once again, I believed it to be age appropriate.

[Kathianne]

This will not be a popular answer, Noir, but the Bible was not a book in my house. When I thought my children were old enough to understand the concept of religion, we explored together. My children were not brought up in any religion, but in the concept that there is good and evil and we have a choice which we want to be.

PS ... I did let my children watch Bambi and it was a great vehicle to discuss life and death, friendship and survival. And, yes, it did show animals being killed but once again, I believed it to be age appropriate.

and in MY house we read the Bible together and spoke about the stories and what they meant. My kids knew from preschool that the Old Testament was compiled from oral history, much revised. They also knew that much of the New Testament had been revised during Medieval Times, to fit into the mores of the age.

We use the Bible as a guide, not a law.