Now it's the transgendered turn

[jimnyc]

Of course females that feel like males and therefore dress like them should be allowed in the male dorm. And I'll move to this school, claim I'm a female in a male body, and demand entrance into the girls locker rooms and dorms. Quite frankly, this is a bit sickening. And the scary part is that a school would give ANY benefit to these people. I'd give them nothing more than directions to a local shrink. But soon the demands will grow, "equal rights, equal rights" and then the changing of laws and guidelines to follow. :make me want to effing vomit smiley:


Transgender Student Files Complaint After Being Banned From All-Male DormOXFORD, Ohio (CBS Cleveland) — A transgender student at Miami University has filed a complaint against the school after not being allowed to serve as a residential assistant in an all-male dorm.

Kaeden Kass, who was born a female but identifies himself as male, filed a complaint with the dean of students and the Miami University council over the incident, according to WLWT-TV. Kass was offered the same position for a female suite.

“The problem is, I’m a male-identified person,” Kass told WLWT-TV. “As soon as I’m in a space that is all female, my identity gets erased.”

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2012/03/21/transgender-student-files-complaint-after-being-banned-from-all-male-dorm/

[SassyLady]

I think schools should provide a third dorm for those who can't make up their minds .... men wanting to be women and women wanting to be men, put them in same dorm but keep the regular dorms as is.

[jimnyc]

I think schools should provide a third dorm for those who can't make up their minds .... men wanting to be women and women wanting to be men, put them in same dorm but keep the regular dorms as is.

I suppose if it's a privately owned school. But should this happen at any schools that get funding from the government, no way I think "we" should pay for extra stuff for people who are "confused". You get to go into the dorm where your parts match, or you're free to find off campus lodging. Same for locker rooms, either your parts match or no go. I just really would rather not any of taxpayers money go towards promoting the transgendered "movement".

[Noir]

...why do they need single sex'd dorms anyway?

[Abbey Marie]

Here, I corrected the article:


Transgender Student Files Complaint After Being Banned From All-Male Dorm

OXFORD, Ohio (CBS Cleveland) — A transgender student at Miami University has filed a complaint against the school after not being allowed to serve as a residential assistant in an all-male dorm.

Kaeden Kass, who was born a female but identifies himself herself as male, filed a complaint with the dean of students and the Miami University council over the incident, according to WLWT-TV. Kass was offered the same position for a female suite.

“The problem is, I’m a male-identified person,” Kass told WLWT-TV. “As soon as I’m in a space that is all female, my identity gets erased.”

[Noir]

Here, I corrected the article:

No, you didn't, both your and the article got it wrong. As you both referred to 'male' and 'female' which is transexual not transgender.

[jimnyc]

You're all wrong. They should have referred to this person as a "confused woman". If you got woman parts, you're female. If you got man parts, you're male. I don't give a flying fuck what your head thinks. What if you literally have brown hair, but in your head you see yourself with purple hair. Are you a brown haired person, a purple haired person, or transhaired? LOL Sorry, these people have mental issues and should be handled accordingly. They shouldn't be granted any "additional rights" because they're "confused".

[Noir]

You're all wrong. They should have referred to this person as a "confused woman". If you got woman parts, you're female. If you got man parts, you're male. I don't give a flying fuck what your head thinks. What if you literally have brown hair, but in your head you see yourself with purple hair. Are you a brown haired person, a purple haired person, or transhaired? LOL Sorry, these people have mental issues and should be handled accordingly. They shouldn't be granted any "additional rights" because they're "confused".

So you don't think gender definitions exist? And that say (for example) there is no such thing as a 'masculine woman'?

Now i don't mean masculine to the point of wanting to be a man, or even considering herself a man, but there are woman out there who's gender is more masculine than feminine. And that in itself has nothing to do with transgender people.

[jimnyc]

So you don't think gender definitions exist? And that say (for example) there is no such thing as a 'masculine woman'?

Now i don't mean masculine to the point of wanting to be a man, or even considering herself a man, but there are woman out there who's gender is more masculine than feminine. And that in itself has nothing to do with transgender people.

Yep, there are masculine WOMEN just as there are femine MEN. But they are STILL women and men as they were born. Confusion or identity issues in their fucked up heads doesn't allow them to just deny their biological parts and deny their gender. And if these people DO feel this way, they need help, not rights to have the same access as the OPPOSITE sex, or any additional rights at all.

[Noir]

Yep, there are masculine WOMEN just as there are femine MEN. But they are STILL women and men as they were born. Confusion or identity issues in their fucked up heads doesn't allow them to just deny their biological parts and deny their gender. And if these people DO feel this way, they need help, not rights to have the same access as the OPPOSITE sex, or any additional rights at all.

...exactly, a masculine woman and a feline man can be transgendered, *not* transexual.

[jimnyc]

...exactly, a masculine woman and a feline man can be transgendered, *not* transexual.

Regardless, the woman is still a woman, and the man still a man - and no special access/rights should be granted to them.

[Noir]

Regardless, the woman is still a woman, and the man still a man - and no special access/rights should be granted to them.

Yes, a transgendered woman *is* still a woman, they just have gender traits that you'd associate with a man.

Looking back on it the OP makes no sense, claiming the student is a transgender and then going on to describe them as a transexual, which is obviously causing confusion.

[LuvRPgrl]

I think schools should provide a third dorm for those who can't make up their minds .... men wanting to be women and women wanting to be men, put them in same dorm but keep the regular dorms as is.

so, if a man wants to be a woman transgender, wants to have sex with a man?

if a woman transgender wants to be a man ;transgender, wants to have sex with a woman?

then couldnt they have sex with each other, and it will still be man/woman sex, only the roles reversed, the woman is the man, the man is the woman

[Noir]

so, if a man wants to be a woman transgender, wants to have sex with a man?

if a woman transgender wants to be a man ;transgender, wants to have sex with a woman?

then couldnt they have sex with each other, and it will still be man/woman sex, only the roles reversed, the woman is the man, the man is the woman

There are (iirc) 4 main aspects that govern this discussion, they are Sex, Gender, Orientation and Expression.

Sex refers to male or female,
Gender refers to masculine or feminine.
Orientation refers to who you are arrtacted to (or not attracted to)
and Expression refers to your outward appearance.

All of them are totally interchangble, and can be combined in countless different ways.

i.e. You could have a male transexual who's orientation is 'hetrosexual' (which would mean the man who considers himself a woman is attracted to women) etc.

Or say someone like Eddie Izzard, who is a Sex-Male, Gender-Masculine, Orientation-Hetrosexual, Expression-transvestite.

[jimnyc]

There are (iirc) 4 main aspects that govern this discussion, they are Sex, Gender, Orientation and Expression.

Sex refers to male or female,
Gender refers to masculine or feminine.
Orientation refers to who you are arrtacted to (or not attracted to)
and Expression refers to your outward appearance.

All of them are totally interchangble, and can be combined in countless different ways.

i.e. You could have a male transexual who's orientation is 'hetrosexual' (which would mean the man who considers himself a woman is attracted to women) etc.

Or say someone like Eddie Izzard, who is a Sex-Male, Gender-Masculine, Orientation-Hetrosexual, Expression-transvestite.

That is one confusing post!

Again though, women parts do what women do, and men parts do what men do. In other words, you have man parts, you bunk with the men, shower with the men and get the same "rights" as other men. If you have women parts, you shower and bunk with women and get the same "rights" as other women.

No way no how we should be allowing these "confused" people to do these things with the opposite sex, and demand to be joined with the opposite sex, or demand the identical rights/guidelines as the opposite sex.

Regardless of the descriptions you have been discussing - do you think transgendered people should be able to do these things with the opposite sex? And then sue if they don't get their way?

[Gator Monroe]

Progressives & Far left know the Pro Masculine (Gay) Minor attracted Folks (NAMBLA) TIME WILL COME also.

[Abbey Marie]

It's not that complicated.

Does he have a y chromosome? Male/boy/man

Does she have two x chromosomes? Female/girl/woman

Everything else is suggestion/preference/perhaps environmental influences

I would make an exception for those who are born hermaphrodite. They should get a pass.

[SassyLady]

It's not that complicated.

Does he have a y chromosome? Male/boy/man

Does she have two x chromosomes? Female/girl/woman

Everything else is suggestion/preference/perhaps environmental influences

I would make an exception for those who are born hermaphrodite. They should get a pass.

Simple......love it!

[tailfins]

You're all wrong. They should have referred to this person as a "confused woman". If you got woman parts, you're female. If you got man parts, you're male. I don't give a flying **** what your head thinks. What if you literally have brown hair, but in your head you see yourself with purple hair. Are you a brown haired person, a purple haired person, or transhaired? LOL Sorry, these people have mental issues and should be handled accordingly. They shouldn't be granted any "additional rights" because they're "confused".


I don't have the "gross out" factor you seem to have. However it's just one more person in line to spend other people's money. A substantial portion of the public won't be comfortable with this so the next step will be a call for special accommodations - CHA-CHING more money! Now I wonder if there is an ambulance chaser by her side hoping to line his pockets as well.

[cadet]

I wish to be a girl, does this mean i'm allowed to stay in the girls dorms/locker rooms? :rolleyes:

[jimnyc]

Regardless of the descriptions you have been discussing - do you think transgendered people should be able to do these things with the opposite sex? And then sue if they don't get their way?

Noir? You never answered this. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts, and others who may want to answer. Should we now start a "movement" to grant "equality" to the transgendered folk and give them rights as in the story here?

[Noir]

Noir? You never answered this. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts, and others who may want to answer. Should we now start a "movement" to grant "equality" to the transgendered folk and give them rights as in the story here?

Correct, sorry.

My answer is let her, idk why a woman (transgendered or not) cant be a residential assistant. Indeed thinking of the year I spent at Uni Dorms 3 of my 4 assistants were woman, so what's the problem?

[cadet]

Correct, sorry.

My answer is let her, idk why a woman (transgendered or not) cant be a residential assistant. Indeed thinking of the year I spent at Uni Dorms 3 of my 4 assistants were woman, so what's the problem?

The biggest problem would probably be some guys like to take showers at some point. (not often, but still)
and if it's anything like here, the bathroom is in the middle of the hallway. Some guy's are kind of self conscious about how they look. me, i wrestled for seven years, so i don't get that. but i know some guys are reeeeeeally worried about people looking at them. So it's not really a problem for her, but the guys on the other hand... I for one, won't take a shower if there's a girl walking around our floor, out of decency.

We do have an apartment type area, where it is kinda coed. but the bathrooms are within their own suit, and not halfway down the hall.

[jimnyc]

Correct, sorry.

My answer is let her, idk why a woman (transgendered or not) cant be a residential assistant. Indeed thinking of the year I spent at Uni Dorms 3 of my 4 assistants were woman, so what's the problem?

Because HERE, she would be in a dorm with men, and only men, as the majority of places aren't co-ed.

But you didn't answer about transgendered in general - should "we" be granting them the same rights as whatever sex it is they think they are? Should a woman, who thinks she is a man, be allowed to do all the a man does and go everywhere a man does? And the same for men who think they are women too? They are "coming out" more and more and their argument is the same as homosexuals, and they just want rights, or equal rights, and well... You see with the lawsuit, this woman wants to be treated the same as men, but differently than every other woman there. Do we start going forward giving more and more ground to transgendered?

[Noir]

The biggest problem would probably be some guys like to take showers at some point. (not often, but still)
and if it's anything like here, the bathroom is in the middle of the hallway. Some guy's are kind of self conscious about how they look. me, i wrestled for seven years, so i don't get that. but i know some guys are reeeeeeally worried about people looking at them. So it's not really a problem for her, but the guys on the other hand... I for one, won't take a shower if there's a girl walking around our floor, out of decency.

We do have an apartment type area, where it is kinda coed. but the bathrooms are within their own suit, and not halfway down the hall.

Not to be too sarky, but it's not like they forced you to walk naked between your room and shower and back again...you could walk to it clothed how you like, get showered, and walk back clothed however you like, at no point during which can you be seen wearing an less than you'd want to if you thought you could pass a woman in the hallway...

[edit - rereading that it was badly written, I don't mean 'you' as in yourself, but rather 'you' as in someone who is self-conscious)

[jimnyc]

The biggest problem would probably be some guys like to take showers at some point. (not often, but still)
and if it's anything like here, the bathroom is in the middle of the hallway. Some guy's are kind of self conscious about how they look. me, i wrestled for seven years, so i don't get that. but i know some guys are reeeeeeally worried about people looking at them. So it's not really a problem for her, but the guys on the other hand... I for one, won't take a shower if there's a girl walking around our floor, out of decency.

We do have an apartment type area, where it is kinda coed. but the bathrooms are within their own suit, and not halfway down the hall.

Imagine you're a woman, in the women's facilities, just getting out of the shower. In walks a man, excuse me, I mean a woman, or rather a man that has gender identity issues, and his big 'ol willy is swaying back and forth. All normal, nothing to be seen around here, just gimme more rights so I can be a freakshow!

[Noir]

Imagine you're a woman, in the women's facilities, just getting out of the shower. In walks a man, excuse me, I mean a woman, or rather a man that has gender identity issues, and his big 'ol willy is swaying back and forth. All normal, nothing to be seen around here, just gimme more rights so I can be a freakshow!

...I don't know what kind of dorm assistants you had, but none of my (male or female) walked about naked.

[jimnyc]

...I don't know what kind of dorm assistants you had, but none of my (male or female) walked about naked.

When you open the shower curtain, and walk through the bathroom. What, do you put your clothes on while you're still in the shower stall?

[jimnyc]

Noir, keep in mind, we heard one another opinion on the story in the OP - but I'm talking generally now, about transgendered folk, and the rights they seek. How far do we go and do you think they should do everything the gender they think they are does?

[logroller]

...why do they need single sex'd dorms anyway?


The biggest problem would probably be some guys like to take showers at some point. (not often, but still)
and if it's anything like here, the bathroom is in the middle of the hallway. Some guy's are kind of self conscious about how they look. me, i wrestled for seven years, so i don't get that. but i know some guys are reeeeeeally worried about people looking at them. So it's not really a problem for her, but the guys on the other hand... I for one, won't take a shower if there's a girl walking around our floor, out of decency.

We do have an apartment type area, where it is kinda coed. but the bathrooms are within their own suit, and not halfway down the hall.

That's me. Whenever I'm flogging myself I can't stand when girls look at me. That and I'm usually crying, incessantly apologizing to Jesus...its just embarrassing. I've got privacy rights ladyboy, avert your eyes.:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[Noir]

When you open the shower curtain, and walk through the bathroom. What, do you put your clothes on while you're still in the shower stall?

If I wanted to make sure I could get changed in the bathroom without anyone else seeing me I'd lock the bathroom door.

[Noir]

Noir, keep in mind, we heard one another opinion on the story in the OP - but I'm talking generally now, about transgendered folk, and the rights they seek. How far do we go and do you think they should do everything the gender they think they are does?

Fair enough, idk, gender differentiation is tricky enough, as the constructs themselves feed the social results in a loop, ie creating the over sexualisation of men and woman's body's etc.

[cadet]

now, i would have no problem with it being a coed apartment style thing. but she want's to be in charge of an all guy area? first off, that sounds fishy to me, like she just want's some.

But, she want's to make every guy in there uncomfortable. This isn't an issue of whether or not she'll be embarrassed, it's more the issue of every guy hitting on her all year, causing alot of sexual discrimination lawsuits, and the guys with privacy issues. Forget the fact that "She thinks like a guy so it's ok." Plenty of those boys are going to have a hard time listening to her because she's a girl, and the other half are going to be scared shitless to go out in a towel.

If she want's to be in charge of an area, make sure it's a coed, with separate bathrooms per room.

[Noir]

now, i would have no problem with it being a coed apartment style thing. but she want's to be in charge of an all guy area? first off, that sounds fishy to me, like she just want's some.

But, she want's to make every guy in there uncomfortable. This isn't an issue of whether or not she'll be embarrassed, it's more the issue of every guy hitting on her all year, causing alot of sexual discrimination lawsuits, and the guys with privacy issues. Forget the fact that "She thinks like a guy so it's ok." Plenty of those boys are going to have a hard time listening to her because she's a girl, and the other half are going to be scared shitless to go out in a towel.

If she want's to be in charge of an area, make sure it's a coed, with separate bathrooms per room.

Sometimes I don't think I make enough of an allowance for the differences Bewteen American and British mentality.

[LuvRPgrl]

Sometimes I don't think I make enough of an allowance for the differences Bewteen American and British mentality.

british mentality,?
Kinda an oxymoron, like?:salute::laugh:

[Gator Monroe]

Pro Masculine (Gay) Minor Attracted (NAMBLA) practioners of an Alternative Lifestyle will be in line for their Special Rights & protections soon enough if Far Left & Progressives have their way.

[jimnyc]

Sometimes I don't think I make enough of an allowance for the differences Bewteen American and British mentality.

A lot of Americans have self respect, and don't want to walk around naked in front of the opposite sex.

[Noir]

A lot of Americans have self respect, and don't want to walk around naked in front of the opposite sex.

...and when exactly are y'all forced to walk around naked?

Not to mention the 'self respect' thing is a double edged sword at best.

[jimnyc]

...and when exactly are y'all forced to walk around naked?

Not to mention the 'self respect' thing is a double edged sword at best.

If in a co-ed environment, or have women walking around your dorm for any reason, you have to change the way you use the facilities - like I said yesterday, probably dress completely in the bathroom, instead of walking in your underwear, naked or just in a towel back and forth to rooms and what not. And in a co-ed environment, women would need to be aware of the same things. Unless of course one has no shame and just walks around bare assed regardless of who might see them.

Self respect is hardly a double edged sword, you either have it or you don't. I can't fathom having any reasons to worry about having self respect.

[Gator Monroe]

If in a co-ed environment, or have women walking around your dorm for any reason, you have to change the way you use the facilities - like I said yesterday, probably dress completely in the bathroom, instead of walking in your underwear, naked or just in a towel back and forth to rooms and what not. And in a co-ed environment, women would need to be aware of the same things. Unless of course one has no shame and just walks around bare assed regardless of who might see them.

Self respect is hardly a double edged sword, you either have it or you don't. I can't fathom having any reasons to worry about having self respect.

Self Respect is not not givin yout Buddy a "Reacharound" during Bareback .:laugh2:

[Noir]

If in a co-ed environment, or have women walking around your dorm for any reason, you have to change the way you use the facilities - like I said yesterday, probably dress completely in the bathroom, instead of walking in your underwear, naked or just in a towel back and forth to rooms and what not. And in a co-ed environment, women would need to be aware of the same things. Unless of course one has no shame and just walks around bare assed regardless of who might see them.

Self respect is hardly a double edged sword, you either have it or you don't. I can't fathom having any reasons to worry about having self respect.

Buy double edged sword I mean that some would argue that due to social pressure etc you are forced to feel ashamed of your body which makes you want to cover up, and inso doing you are implying that others would view you as a sexual object and not a non-sexual naked being. ie you would inky feel shame in being naked because your been made to think like that, there is nothing objectively shameful about being naked.

[jimnyc]

Buy double edged sword I mean that some would argue that due to social pressure etc you are forced to feel ashamed of your body which makes you want to cover up, and inso doing you are implying that others would view you as a sexual object and not a non-sexual naked being. ie you would inky feel shame in being naked because your been made to think like that, there is nothing objectively shameful about being naked.

It has nothing to do with shame and all about self respect - that's why we have a thing called clothing! If one is very proud of their body, that doesn't mean they should be comfortable walking around naked. That's where the self respect comes in. I think my wifes body is absolutely fantastic, but I wouldn't want her walking around naked - anywhere. Some things are better left for the privacy of your home or bedroom.

[Noir]

It has nothing to do with shame and all about self respect - that's why we have a thing called clothing! If one is very proud of their body, that doesn't mean they should be comfortable walking around naked. That's where the self respect comes in. I think my wifes body is absolutely fantastic, but I wouldn't want her walking around naked - anywhere. Some things are better left for the privacy of your home or bedroom.

Shame and self respect are perceived as different sides of the same coin (ala love and hate etc)

You don't want your wife walking around naked because you think it would shame her (and you) over her lack of 'self respect' while failing to accept that as i said this 'self respect' is a construct of our society and not based on any objective grounds.

In much the same sense you can look at a different form of society, say African Tribes, Many of them (for whatever reason in the development of their society) have no issues with woman being toppless all day every day. Are you to say that none of these people have 'self respect'? Ofcourse not (at least i hope not) they just have different values that don't equate to what you would view to be shameful.

Westernised (as well as most other) societies teach us to be ashamed of our bodies, to hid them, and punishes those who are not so easily bullied into such a way of thinking. (and it also ironically creates a counter culture of pornography, sensational-sexualisation of our bodies (at an ever increasingly younger age) and enforcement of old but hard to lose notions of 'Sluts/Slags/Whores' and the like.)

[jimnyc]

Shame and self respect are perceived as different sides of the same coin (ala love and hate etc)

You don't want your wife walking around naked because you think it would shame her (and you) over her lack of 'self respect' while failing to accept that as i said this 'self respect' is a construct of our society and not based on any objective grounds.

In much the same sense you can look at a different form of society, say African Tribes, Many of them (for whatever reason in the development of their society) have no issues with woman being toppless all day every day. Are you to say that none of these people have 'self respect'? Ofcourse not (at least i hope not) they just have different values that don't equate to what you would view to be shameful.

Westernised (as well as most other) societies teach us to be ashamed of our bodies, to hid them, and punishes those who are not so easily bullied into such a way of thinking. (and it also ironically creates a counter culture of pornography, sensational-sexualisation of our bodies (at an ever increasingly younger age) and enforcement of old but hard to lose notions of 'Sluts/Slags/Whores' and the like.)

Nope, not in my case, nor hers. It's nothing at all to do with shame. Would I be "ashamed" as well for making out with my wife? Not at all, but I just think that's best left for our privacy and not something to be "shared" with others. You're confusing shame with self respect. Even if I happened along a nude beach with her, I still wouldn't want her sharing her body with anyone wanting to look, and again, not out of shame, as everyone else would be naked as well, but rather because there are some things I would prefer to be just between the 2 of us.

When I'm in a locker room full of guys I have no problem changing/showering and what not, because I'm not ashamed of anything. Hell, going to the bathroom is 100% natural and normal too, and I also don't want that comingling with the opposite sex. Not because I'm ashamed, but because some things are best kept private.

But I do see the point your making, and how societies differ. And if one society in timbuktoo wants to be free and natural and be nude everywhere, thats great. But if I show up, and don't want to be as free, that hardly means I'm ashamed. Just a different set of values I suppose.

[tailfins]

I can make this really simple. Why should large numbers of people change the way they do things to accommodate a very small number of people? It is an extreme example of being a burden on others. Does anyone see an effort to meet the school halfway? Gimme Gimme Gimme. I see this going the direction of having four genders. Care to speculate how much effort/expense that would entail?