Black Kid killed for being black

[Wind Song]

http://bjlacosteblogs.wordpress.com/2012/03/17/17-year-old-black-kid-killed-for-no-reason/

And we say racism doesn't exist in America.

[darin]

http://bjlacosteblogs.wordpress.com/2012/03/17/17-year-old-black-kid-killed-for-no-reason/

And we say racism doesn't exist in America.

Your racism is nauseating.

[Wind Song]

Your racism is nauseating.
By all means, please elaborate. What makes me a racist in your eyes? I pointed out the truth of why this boy was killed?

[darin]

By all means, please elaborate. What makes me a racist in your eyes? I pointed out the truth of why this boy was killed?

Continuing the notion the guy who shot him was a racist simply because he's of a different race is, in itself, a display of racsim.

The ONLY facts we know:

shooter was a member of a neighborhood watch
tried to question/stop someone
there was a struggle
suspect got shot

Implying racism is foolish.

Never let the facts get in the way of your reconceptions, WS.

[Nukeman]

http://bjlacosteblogs.wordpress.com/2012/03/17/17-year-old-black-kid-killed-for-no-reason/

And we say racism doesn't exist in America.Question for you... Were you there?? This is more convoluted story than this "BLOG" has to say.. The story I read had the young man "visiting" a friends house NOT outside his dads house... I read off a news site NOT a blog.......


Sanford police Sergeant David Morgenstern said the department stands by its investigation but welcomes help from any outside agency. FBI agent David Couvertier said the agency has been in contact with Sanford police and is monitoring the case.

'We are committed to having somebody review this to see if we made a mistake,' said Sanford Mayor Jeff Triplett. 'If we made missteps and there is something there, we will act accordingly'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2116972/Trayvon-Martin-shooting-George-Zimmerman-wanted-cop.html#ixzz1pgT5Q6ri

[Wind Song]

Continuing the notion the guy who shot him was a racist simply because he's of a different race is, in itself, a display of racsim.

The ONLY facts we know:

shooter was a member of a neighborhood watch
tried to question/stop someone
there was a struggle
suspect got shot

Implying racism is foolish.

Never let the facts get in the way of your reconceptions, WS.
Racism is the obvious reason this young boy was killed. The killer assumed since he was black that he was "suspicious".
The boy is heard begging for his life in the 9/11 call.
A bigot killed this good boy who lived feet away from the store. I hope they throw the book at him. It's more like a hate crime than anything else.

This was an innocent child who went to the store to buy junk food, (skittles and ice tea) and was killed by a paranoid trigger happy racist who stalked him.

[darin]

Racism is the obvious reason this young boy was killed. The killer assumed since he was black that he was "suspicious".

This confirms you as a piece of shit racist.

[jimnyc]

NO ONE knows the entire story. Some ASSume it was solely based on racism.

[Wind Song]

This confirms you as a piece of shit racist..
This confirms you are a hotheaded name caller, incapable of debate, and a hypocrite. You don't follow the rules you ban others over.

[jimnyc]

WS - can you post ONE piece of proof that this kid was killed solely because he was black? ONE PIECE is all I ask for...

[Wind Song]

NO ONE knows the entire story. Some ASSume it was solely based on racism.
There were witnesses, there are multiple 911 calls and there is the cell phone call from the boy who was killed to his girlfriend.

Zimmerman admits to the 911 operator that he is following the boy and continues even after the operator tells him NOT to tail the boy. The boy is shot moments later.

[Dilloduck]

It's obviously the poor guys karma that caught up with him. I wonder if we will ever know what he did to get such bad karma in the first place.

[revelarts]

this is a sad story. Jeez .

The turks are right here, I find myself agreeing with these guys again.
This is a case where the kid was guilty of BBOB "being black on the street".
Many folks here won't buy it , for some reason it's hard to admit that when a lot a people see a young black male they automatically see a threat/criminal/lowlife and proceed to treat them as such until proven otherwise. this kid didn't get a chance to prove it.
Zimmerman,(head of the neighborhood watch) saw a black kid in his neighborhood and called 911. If he'd been white or asian would he have called? The cops told him to stay in the car and wait for the them. He didn't, he followed him for some time it appears, then confronted him, says he was threatened and then shot the kid in the chest.

At the very least this Zimmerman should be on trail for manslaughter, let the jury settle it.
I'd guess that if Zimmerman is a descent guy he feels like sh*t over this, even if he does have some racist issues.


2 past threads come to mind here.
one about the black men who raped tortured and killed the white couple, lots of outrage over the fact that it didn't make news here. One big difference here. those guys are going to prison. And no one and no race promotes or excuses that evil behavior.
here it looks like we've got an innocent killed becuase of the perception that black skin equals bad behavior.

the other thread is the one one about the got Ya TV show "what would you do".

they showed several cases where the situation was exactly the same and people reacted differently to black kids.
the one that surprised me most was when they had kids obviously doing wrong and others doing nothing. The black kids were taking a nap in a car in a park, they got cops called on them while at the same time not far off white kids who were vandalizing a car with paint were chortled at as rascals.

No need to get personal defensive about it if it's not you. hey Call it what you like, it is what it is.

[jimnyc]

There were witnesses, there are multiple 911 calls and there is the cell phone call from the boy who was killed to his girlfriend.

Zimmerman admits to the 911 operator that he is following the boy and continues even after the operator tells him NOT to tail the boy. The boy is shot moments later.


POST the proof... Where are the witness statements that he killed him for no reason? The 911 call says nothing about killing someone because they were black, not the one I heard.

[Nukeman]

this is a sad story. Jeez .

The turks are right here, I find myself agreeing with these guys again.
This is a case where the kid was guilty of BBOB "being black on the street".
Many folks here won't buy it , for some reason it's hard to admit that when a lot a people see a young black male they automatically see a threat/criminal/lowlife and proceed to treat them as such until proven otherwise. this kid didn't get a chance to prove it.
Zimmerman,(head of the neighborhood watch) saw a black kid in his neighborhood and called 911. If he'd been white or asian would he have called? The cops told him to stay in the car and wait for the them. He didn't, he followed him for some time it appears, then confronted him, says he was threatened and then shot the kid in the chest.

At the very least this Zimmerman should be on trail for manslaughter, let the jury settle it.
I'd guess that if Zimmerman is a descent guy he feels like sh*t over this, even if he does have some racist issues.


2 past threads come to mind here.
one about the black men who raped tortured and killed the white couple, lots of outrage over the fact that it didn't make news here. One big difference here. those guys are going to prison. And no one and no race promotes or excuses that evil behavior.
here it looks like we've got an innocent killed becuase of the perception that black skin equals bad behavior.

the other thread is the one one about the got Ya TV show "what would you do".

they showed several cases where the situation was exactly the same and people reacted differently to black kids.
the one that surprised me most was when they had kids obviously doing wrong and others doing nothing. The black kids were taking a nap in a car in a park, they got cops called on them while at the same time not far off white kids who were vandalizing a car with paint were chortled at as rascals.

No need to get personal defensive about it if it's not you. hey Call it what you like, it is what it is.I want to add Rev that a lot of this is profiling.. IT WORKS, not only do the police profile "blacks" but the white kids in a bad neighborhood where they can get drugs are ALWAYS pulled over as well, the single guys in cars driving by hookers are pulled over as well, the list goes on, it depends on the area you're talking about as to what the police look for, so this "being black on the street" is crap and you know it!! Profiling is used everywhere (except by the TSA who are idiots for not doing it)!!!

[darin]

.
This confirms you are a hotheaded name caller, incapable of debate, and a hypocrite. You don't follow the rules you ban others over.

First - As a poster

Your racism betrays itself. Because I can see you're a racist, I conclude you're a piece of crap. That's not a debate; that's a judgement call based on your racist replies/comments.

Second - As an Admin

If you have problems with the action of a Mod/Admin, send a PM to one of the Admins; we'll look into it. Bitching about Admin/Mod operations in public is forbidden.

[Wind Song]

POST the proof... Where are the witness statements that he killed him for no reason? The 911 call says nothing about killing someone because they were black, not the one I heard.

Let's review the facts. Teenage boy walking home with skittles and ice tea is percieived by armed neighborhood watch guy who percieves the kid as "suspicious". The guy is ALLOWED to kill this child because he felt "threatened". Yet is it the armed killer that gets out of his car and intimidates the kid. How threatened could he be if he gets out of the car to confront the kid with his gun at the ready?

Now add the color. White guy thinks this kid looks suspicious because the kid is black and is wearing a hoodie?

[jimnyc]

Let's review the facts. Teenage boy walking home with skittles and ice tea is percieived by armed neighborhood watch guy who percieves the kid as "suspicious". The guy is ALLOWED to kill this child because he felt "threatened". Yet is it the armed killer that gets out of his car and intimidates the kid. How threatened could he be if he gets out of the car to confront the kid with his gun at the ready?

Now add the color. White guy thinks this kid looks suspicious because the kid is black and is wearing a hoodie?

Post the proof of the things you claim, that he was killed solely for being black. You even made specific claims, so it should be quite simple to post those facts right here for all to see/hear.

[Wind Song]

First - As a poster

Your racism betrays itself. Because I can see you're a racist, I conclude you're a piece of crap. That's not a debate; that's a judgement call based on your racist replies/comments.

Second - As an Admin

If you have problems with the action of a Mod/Admin, send a PM to one of the Admins; we'll look into it. Bitching about Admin/Mod operations in public is forbidden.
First of all, you have done NOTHING to prove that I'm a racist. All I've done is point out the obvious racism in the murder of this innocent child.

Second, you continue to name call. You ought to set a higher standard for yourself as an admin.

You're hotheaded. Calm down, and look at the truth of this story. It's obvious this child was killed for "walking in the neighborhood while black".

[jimnyc]

First of all, you have done NOTHING to prove that I'm a racist. All I've done is point out the obvious racism in the murder of this innocent child.

Second, you continue to name call. You ought to set a higher standard for yourself as an admin.

You're hotheaded. Calm down, and look at the truth of this story. It's obvious this child was killed for "walking in the neighborhood while black".

Can you post the 9/11 call you said shows us that he killed this guy for being black? Or the eywitness statements to back this up?

[SassyLady]

this is a sad story. Jeez .

The turks are right here, I find myself agreeing with these guys again.
This is a case where the kid was guilty of BBOB "being black on the street".
Many folks here won't buy it , for some reason it's hard to admit that when a lot a people see a young black male they automatically see a threat/criminal/lowlife and proceed to treat them as such until proven otherwise. this kid didn't get a chance to prove it.

Why is this, Rev? Tell us why society has evolved to this conclusion.

[Wind Song]

Can you post the 9/11 call you said shows us that he killed this guy for being black? Or the eywitness statements to back this up?
Do some reading and get back to me. I'm not doing your work for you.

[Trigg]

Let's review the facts. Teenage boy walking home with skittles and ice tea is percieived by armed neighborhood watch guy who percieves the kid as "suspicious". The guy is ALLOWED to kill this child because he felt "threatened". Yet is it the armed killer that gets out of his car and intimidates the kid. How threatened could he be if he gets out of the car to confront the kid with his gun at the ready?

Now add the color. White guy thinks this kid looks suspicious because the kid is black and is wearing a hoodie?

while you're out trying to prove he's racist you might also come across the fact that the guy does not consider himself white, he's hispanic.

[jimnyc]

Do some reading and get back to me. I'm not doing your work for you.

I read your link, and many others about this story over the past week - and I haven't read/heard what you are claiming, and a blog doesn't make it so. The FACTS merely show a man following a suspicious kid down the road and ultimately shooting him and it' stated he claimed it was in self defense. YOU made the claim that the 9/11 call proved he killed this kid for solely being black, but the call doesn't backup your ridiculous claim. The eyewitnesses also don't make tha claim. YOU made that claim, and the reason you won't post it is because you are jumping to conclusions based on EMOTION and have very, very, very little facts to back ANY of it up. That's what liberals do though.

[jimnyc]

while you're out trying to prove he's racist you might also come across the fact that the guy does not consider himself white, he's hispanic.

That's funny, a bunch of articles I read refer to him as a "white hispanic" to portray him to be as white as possible. Any other day of the year and white is caucasian and hispanic is hispanic.

[Wind Song]

while you're out trying to prove he's racist you might also come across the fact that the guy does not consider himself white, he's hispanic.

Are you telling me you really don't see the obvious racism in this child's death? Unbelievable.

[jimnyc]

Are you telling me you really don't see the obvious racism in this child's death? Unbelievable.

I'm looking at the FACTS of the case. It doesn't all add up to me, but I see NOTHING to support an argument that he killed him solely for being black, or for just being black. You're jumping to that conclusion based on no facts. That's what liberals do.

[Dilloduck]

Are you telling me you really don't see the obvious racism in this child's death? Unbelievable.

Are you claiming that racism is the ONLY possible reason for this hispanic man's behavior ?

Especially when there is to evidence to the fact ?

[tailfins]

That's funny, a bunch of articles I read refer to him as a "white hispanic" to portray him to be as white as possible. Any other day of the year and white is caucasian and hispanic is hispanic.


Descendants of Axis exiles in Argentina would legally be "hispanic".

[Wind Song]

Phone call from Trayvon Martin to his GF seconds before he was shot dead by the self appointed vigilante blows the shooters claim of self-defense.

[Nukeman]

Are you telling me you really don't see the obvious racism in this child's death? Unbelievable.You know there may very well have been some racism in this but WHERE IS YOUR PROOF, is it only because YOU considered the shooter to be white and he considers himself to be hispanic???!?!?!?

If this whole story listed the shooter as Hispanic would YOU be calling him racist?? I want a straight answer from you if you can manage that. it is yes or no... really simple

[jimnyc]

Phone call from Trayvon Martin to his GF seconds before he was shot dead by the self appointed vigilante blows the shooters claim of self-defense.

Do you have audio of this call? What happened while she was on the phone and who can verify it? I'd be MORE interested to hear these independent eyewitnesses version of what happened than a girlfriend. When are you going to post the facts from the eyewitnesses?

[Dilloduck]

Phone call from Trayvon Martin to his GF seconds before he was shot dead by the self appointed vigilante blows the shooters claim of self-defense.

Yet offers no evidence of racism. I forgot how irrational you are. :laugh:

[Wind Song]

[QUOTE=Dilloduck;533513]Are you claiming that racism is the ONLY possible reason for this hispanic man's behavior ?

Especially when there is to evidence to the fact ?[/QUOT
Paranoia is another reason for the man's behavior. If ever there was an argument for who should not have a gun, this is it. This child died because of racism and paranoia.

This is the last post I will answer of yours. We are not on speaking terms.

[Dilloduck]

[QUOTE=Dilloduck;533513]Are you claiming that racism is the ONLY possible reason for this hispanic man's behavior ?

Especially when there is to evidence to the fact ?[/QUOT
Paranoia is the reason for the man's behavior. If ever there was an argument for who should not have a gun, this is it.

This is the last post I will answer of yours.

:bye1:

[jimnyc]

Paranoia is another reason for the man's behavior. If ever there was an argument for who should not have a gun, this is it. This child died because of racism and paranoia.

This is the last post I will answer of yours. We are not on speaking terms.

Another reason? Let's stick with your original argument, which you haven't backed up yet, before laying more false claims.

[SassyLady]

Are you telling me you really don't see the obvious racism in this child's death? Unbelievable.

Do you yell racism every time a non-white kills some other non-white? Hispanics killing blacks and vice versa? Asians killing blacks and vice versa? Asians killing Hispanics and vice versa? Do you post all those events? Or are you just consumed with white guilt and only post those that are "white against blacks" as racism? Or whites against any other non-whites?

[Wind Song]

I'm looking at the FACTS of the case. It doesn't all add up to me, but I see NOTHING to support an argument that he killed him solely for being black, or for just being black. You're jumping to that conclusion based on no facts. That's what liberals do.

Facts of the case are that a young boy is walking home with skittles and ice tea, and he appears "suspicious" to some nutjob self-appointed "neighborhood watchman" aka vigilante. The nutjob stalks the boy and gets out of his car and confronts the kid and the kid is shot but the nutjob.

Clearly, this boy was killed for no reason other than fitting a racial stereotype of "suspiciousness".911 advised this jerk to not follow or engage the boy.

This guy ought to be locked up for life.

[Nukeman]

Facts of the case are that a young boy is walking home with skittles and ice tea, and he appears "suspicious" to some nutjob self-appointed "neighborhood watchman" aka vigilante. The nutjob stalks the boy and gets out of his car and confronts the kid and the kid is shot but the nutjob.

Clearly, this boy was killed for no reason other than fitting a racial stereotype of "suspiciousness".

This guy ought to be locked up for life.But is that racist? especially since the guy lists himself as being Hispanic!! You still have not answered my simple question to you!!!!!

[jimnyc]

Facts of the case are that a young boy is walking home with skittles and ice tea, and he appears "suspicious" to some nutjob self-appointed "neighborhood watchman" aka vigilante. The nutjob stalks the boy and gets out of his car and confronts the kid and the kid is shot but the nutjob.

Clearly, this boy was killed for no reason other than fitting a racial stereotype of "suspiciousness".

This guy ought to be locked up for life.

Let me edit your post to what the facts REALLY show us:

Young boy walking home with skittles and iced tea. He appears suspicious to the hispanic neighborhood watch, who calls the police. By the time the police arrive, the boy has been shot and killed. The hispanic man claims self defense. Police file no charges AS THEY HAVE NO FACTS TO STATE OTHERWISE.

Emotional fuckwit comes on internet and makes it "solely" a racial issue.

[jimnyc]

But is that racist? especially since the guy lists himself as being Hispanic!! You still have not answered my simple question to you!!!!!

She won't, or she'll dance around it. This one is slightly above "Truthmatters", if you remember her when she posted here.

[Wind Song]

Do you yell racism every time a non-white kills some other non-white? Hispanics killing blacks and vice versa? Asians killing blacks and vice versa? Asians killing Hispanics and vice versa? Do you post all those events? Or are you just consumed with white guilt and only post those that are "white against blacks" as racism? Or whites against any other non-whites?

No, I don't yell racism every time a black kid is innocently killed. In this case, it's obvious.

[SassyLady]

Facts of the case are that a young boy is walking home with skittles and ice tea, and he appears "suspicious" to some nutjob self-appointed "neighborhood watchman" aka vigilante. The nutjob stalks the boy and gets out of his car and confronts the kid and the kid is shot but the nutjob.

Clearly, this boy was killed for no reason other than fitting a racial stereotype of "suspiciousness".911 advised this jerk to not follow or engage the boy.

This guy ought to be locked up for life.

Clear only in those who live from a "white guilt" perspective.


No, I don't yell racism every time a black kid is innocently killed. In this case, it's obvious.

To whom?

[jimnyc]

No, I don't yell racism every time a black kid is innocently killed. In this case, it's obvious.

White people are killed every day by blacks, from one end of the country to the other, and many, many of them are for "being white" - yet I've seen ZERO threads posted by you attacking any of those animals...

[Wind Song]

Let me edit your post to what the facts REALLY show us:

Young boy walking home with skittles and iced tea. He appears suspicious to the hispanic neighborhood watch, who calls the police. By the time the police arrive, the boy has been shot and killed. The hispanic man claims self defense. Police file no charges AS THEY HAVE NO FACTS TO STATE OTHERWISE.

Emotional fuckwit comes on internet and makes it "solely" a racial issue.

Sorry you've decided to use that kind of language. We're done.

Man gets out of car and confronts "suspicious" (innocent) child, and starts a scuffle which allows him to shoot the boy in "self-defense".

The man stalked this child and killed him.

[Nukeman]

Sorry you've decided to use that kind of language. We're done.

Man gets out of car and confronts "suspicious" (innocent) child, and starts a scuffle which allows him to shoot the boy in "self-defense".

The man stalked this child and killed him.still no answer to my question going on 2 pages later....

[Wind Song]

White people are killed every day by blacks, from one end of the country to the other, and many, many of them are for "being white" - yet I've seen ZERO threads posted by you attacking any of those animals...
Funny, it's only an "animal" if it's a black attacking a white. If you're concerned about black on white violence start a thread on it. No need to play victim.

[revelarts]

You know there may very well have been some racism in this but WHERE IS YOUR PROOF, is it only because YOU considered the shooter to be white and he considers himself to be hispanic???!?!?!?

If this whole story listed the shooter as Hispanic would YOU be calling him racist?? I want a straight answer from you if you can manage that. it is yes or no... really simple

Yep, he's racist.

Racist come in all colors and are in all nations and all flavors.
Many Jews look "white" but they are hated by many nationalities, races and religions.
Native americans often look white but get treated poorly at times as well.
Similarly blacks have been treated poorly in South America for centuries too.

sadly it's part of the dark side of human nature.

[Wind Song]

still no answer to my question going on 2 pages later....

Repeat the question. Don't expect me to look for it through 2 pages just because you're whining.

[jimnyc]

Funny, it's only an "animal" if it's a black attacking a white. If you're concerned about black on white violence start a thread on it. No need to play victim.

Funny how I only do so if there's a case that can be backed up with facts. You're seeing facts that simply don't exist other than in conclusions drawn from evidence that isn't there. YOU'RE the only racists for ASSuming that's all that happened.

Typical liberal - lack of facts in a story so they will improvise and make up their own.

[Wind Song]

To whom?

It's obvious to every black mother who's had to coach her child about how to behave around police.

[Nukeman]

Repeat the question. Don't expect me to look for it through 2 pages just because you're whining.
Not whining at all you just gloss over what you don't want to answer, you made assertions I asked you this



You know there may very well have been some racism in this but WHERE IS YOUR PROOF, is it only because YOU considered the shooter to be white and he considers himself to be Hispanic???!?!?!?

If this whole story listed the shooter as Hispanic would YOU be calling him racist?? I want a straight answer from you if you can manage that. it is yes or no... really simple

[jimnyc]

Sorry you've decided to use that kind of language. We're done.

Man gets out of car and confronts "suspicious" (innocent) child, and starts a scuffle which allows him to shoot the boy in "self-defense".

The man stalked this child and killed him.

Do you even understand what stalking is? Stalkers don't generally call the police for starters. You make up this thread which is now in it's 4th page and you STILL HAVEN'T posted anything other than your opinions. NO FACTS AT ALL TO BACKUP ANYTHING RACIAL having to do with this, other than one is hispanic and the other black.

Why do you like to lie and exaggerate?

[Wind Song]

Funny how I only do so if there's a case that can be backed up with facts. You're seeing facts that simply don't exist other than in conclusions drawn from evidence that isn't there. YOU'RE the only racists for ASSuming that's all that happened.

Typical liberal - lack of facts in a story so they will improvise and make up their own.

Here's what I know about posting with you. When your arguments are weak you resort to name calling. Here's what I know about me. I don't put up with verbal abuse.

Bye.

[jimnyc]

Here's what I know about posting with you. When your arguments are weak you resort to name calling.

A good thing for you that my arguments are very, very rarely weak. I resort to name calling because I have an allergy against idiots.

[cadet]

It's obvious to every black mother who's had to coach her child about how to behave around police.

That's racist. Are they teaching them to walk softly? you're saying that race defines if you will be picked on by the police?

I've been taught to walk softly around the police too, and I'm not giving you my color/race.
now, i watch myself around them because they're more power hungry mongols then helpful, more of a hindrance then a help i say. you know, outside the bad cities. my small town has a swat team... i can't remember the last time there was crime there.

So, i would like to know which black mother you're hearing this from, or are you being an assuming/racist bitch? I know one mother that would smack you're block off if she heard that.

And to you're first post about how racism is still prevalent in the us today, YOUR generation maybe, but MINE isn't. we joke about it. we laugh our asses off at it. WE DON'T GIVE A SHIT WHAT COLOR YOU ARE! YOU'RE GETTING TREATED THE SAME AS BOB OVER THERE, WELCOME TO AMERICA!:salute:

[Nukeman]

Here's what I know about posting with you. When your arguments are weak you resort to name calling. Here's what I know about me. I don't put up with verbal abuse.

Bye.And I posted again and still NO ANSWER!!

Here's what I know about YOUR posting style ignore everything!!!

[revelarts]

Clear only in those who live from a "white guilt" perspective.

To whom?
It's Obvious to me. I could say that you response is denial. but then we'd just be labeling each others inner thoughts via the internet.

But Why does it have to be "white guilt" to see a story where an innocent kid is shot for seeminly NO good reason, notice the race and say , well there are Racist people, as Nuke mentioned blacks are "profiled". And in all honesty many NON blacks are afraid of young black men.
Hey THIS MIGHT BE RACIALLY MOTIVATIVED. probably. Um Yeah that's the only thing that really makes sense with the info so far.

seems a reasonable conclution.
unless someone wants to say a bag of skiklltes and an ice is the REAL reason he was shot, or that innocent White kids get shot by NHood watch and the shooters are never arrested after they SAY "it was self defense" (no crys for proof for this guys story) from time to time TOO.

no they don't, it's BS. it is obvious that this is a race issue.
Balck Kid in gated community looks suspious. the oprative word being BLACK.

no need to deny it. why all the fuss. No one denies that there are racist in the U.S. many can name some in their family's. that one acutulay shot a kid should not be a such a shocker. that has to be denied denied denied.





White people are killed every day by blacks, from one end of the country to the other, and many, many of them are for "being white" - yet I've seen ZERO threads posted by you attacking any of those animals...
everyone of those blacks that are caught go to jail, they don't go home after they claim self defense becuase the white guy threaten them with an Ice tea.

show me THAT story and i'll start the thread.

[Little-Acorn]

MORE whining and snivelling from poor windysong, as usual with no suggestions about what to do about any of it or anything constructive whatsoever?

Turning into a real one-note pony, isn't she?

[SassyLady]

It's obvious to every black mother who's had to coach her child about how to behave around police.

And why did she have to coach her child about this aspect of society? What is the basis? You act as if the police and others were born hating blacks for no reason.

I'm not saying that anyone should hate anyone ... just that you refuse to acknowledge there is a basis for racism.

[Thunderknuckles]

All the racism aside, I think they may go for a 2nd degree murder charge although involuntary manslaughter is a safer bet.

[Wind Song]

That's racist. Are they teaching them to walk softly? you're saying that race defines if you will be picked on by the police?

I've been taught to walk softly around the police too, and I'm not giving you my color/race.
now, i watch myself around them because they're more power hungry mongols then helpful, more of a hindrance then a help i say. you know, outside the bad cities. my small town has a swat team... i can't remember the last time there was crime there.

So, i would like to know which black mother you're hearing this from, or are you being an assuming/racist bitch? I know one mother that would smack you're block off if she heard that.

And to you're first post about how racism is still prevalent in the us today, YOUR generation maybe, but MINE isn't. we joke about it. we laugh our asses off at it. WE DON'T GIVE A SHIT WHAT COLOR YOU ARE! YOU'RE GETTING TREATED THE SAME AS BOB OVER THERE, WELCOME TO AMERICA!:salute:

No, it's common enough in black families, that unfortunately children have to be educated about racial profiling.

Fact is, this child is dead and he did nothing wrong. He didn't deserve it.


And why did she have to coach her child about this aspect of society? What is the basis? You act as if the police and others were born hating blacks for no reason.

I'm not saying that anyone should hate anyone ... just that you refuse to acknowledge there is a basis for racism.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. What is it, that you call, a "basis for racism"?

Racial profiling is a fact. It is one that most police forces are actively trying to correct.

[SassyLady]

No, it's common enough in black families, that unfortunately children have to be educated about racial profiling.

Fact is, this child is dead and he did nothing wrong. He didn't deserve it.

Why do we have racial profiling Wind Song? Why? For kicks? Or is there some evidence to support it?

[Wind Song]

MORE whining and snivelling from poor windysong, as usual with no suggestions about what to do about any of it or anything constructive whatsoever?

Turning into a real one-note pony, isn't she?

Interesting. You post ABOUT me, rather than with me, about the topic. How is that "constructive"?

What are your views on the topic?

[Little-Acorn]

BTW, as for the guy with the gun, if he doesn't like seeing strangers (who are doing nothing wrong) wandering around in his neighborhood, and/or seeing them walk toward him... maybe he should quit walking around randomly on public sidewalks himself.

As it is, since he decided to combine a suspicion of people who were doing nothing untoward, with a dislike of strangers, with a tendency to carry a gun and use it on strangers he has unreasonable suspicions of, look at the result. And innocent teenage kid is dead, his family is devastated, and the guy is probably facing a first-degree murder charge.

And all for what?

Carrying a gun is a major responsibility, every much as much as driving a car. One mistake in judgement (or a series of them, as in this case), and people can wind up dead. People who want to carry one, certainly have the right to. But they need to keep things like this in mind.

[cadet]

No, it's common enough in black families, that unfortunately children have to be educated about racial profiling.

Fact is, this child is dead and he did nothing wrong. He didn't deserve it.

I've been educated in racial and sexual profiling.
it's easier to get a job if your another race they said, if you have boobs, you get the job they said.

fuck you white male. Do you realize that racial profiling is only there if you believe it is? My good friend mishu came up to me, and told me that he liked how i didn't give him any extra treatment, and treated him like everyone else. Now i call him a doon coon, and he calls me a cracker. i love that guy.

The second you say that racism exists and we need to work on it, the more people think about it, the less you talk about it, the more people forget about it.

now, did this kid deserve to get killed? no, accidents happen. this is one of many. didn't matter what race he was, that kid didn't deserve it. shit happens, there's alot of people out there, and alot can happen.

[Little-Acorn]

Interesting. You post ABOUT me, rather than with me, about the topic. How is that "constructive"?

What are your views on the topic?

Check it out. Little windysong is complaining about someone ELSE posting about another poster rather than the topic.

Isn't that cute? :D :D :D

[Wind Song]

Why do we have racial profiling Wind Song? Why? For kicks? Or is there some evidence to support it?

You tell me. Apparently, you seem to think blacks are inherently more criminally suspicious looking?

Did this child deserve to die walking home from the store with skittles and iced tea because racial profiling is sacred in your eyes?

[SassyLady]

I'm not sure what you're saying here. What is it, that you call, a "basis for racism"?

Racial profiling is a fact. It is one that most police forces are actively trying to correct.

Basis = what are the underlying facts that a specific race uses to instill hatred for another. Why do Hispanics hate Blacks and vice versa? Simply for the color of their skin? I doubt it.

[Wind Song]

Check it out. Little windysong is complaining about someone ELSE posting about another poster rather than the topic.

Isn't that cute? :D :D :D

Check it out. Cute Little Acorn refuses to discuss the topic. What are your views about the murder of this child?

[cadet]

wind song, are you one of those liberal nuts from California or something? cause from these uneducated moronic posts, that's what i'm thinking.

(Not saying EVERYONE from california is a liberal nut, but there are alot.)


Check it out. Cute Little Acorn refuses to discuss the topic. What are your views about the murder of this child?

Ignore the color.

The guy was a dumbass. and should be put in jail. and that's that.

[tailfins]

No, it's common enough in black families, that unfortunately children have to be educated about racial profiling.

Fact is, this child is dead and he did nothing wrong. He didn't deserve it.

You trivialize the incident by fixating on race. That means the "remedy" pursued is MORE racial preference rather than investigating the incident and punishing the actual malfeasance. Would you have felt better if it were a white child that was killed instead?

[Wind Song]

Basis = what are the underlying facts that a specific race uses to instill hatred for another. Why do Hispanics hate Blacks and vice versa? Simply for the color of their skin? I doubt it.
You seem to think you know why one racial group hates the other. Why don't you enlighten us?

The only reason I can see is prejudice, stereotyping. No real basis. Hate for hate's sake.

[SassyLady]

You tell me. Apparently, you seem to think blacks are inherently more criminally suspicious looking?

Did this child deserve to die walking home from the store with skittles and iced tea because racial profiling is sacred in your eyes?

I did not say that. I said there are reasons for profiling ... whether it be for neighborhood crimes, terrorists attacks, serial killings, etc. I never said anything about "blacks". You are the one focused on blacks....I merely asked why it exists.

[cadet]

You seem to think you know why one racial group hates the other. Why don't you enlighten us?

The only reason I can see is prejudice, stereotyping. No real basis. Hate for hate's sake.

i want to know, does anyone on here know any actual die hard racists? the only ones I've seen are family, and we're every color of the rainbow. so we're allowed to screw with eachother.

[tailfins]

Ignore the color.

The guy was a dumbass. and should be put in jail. and that's that.

You're being investigator and prosecutor. I used to say investigator, judge and jury. However, that's not how our "justice" system works: It's overcharge, pressure the defendant to plead guilty what he was going to be charged with anyway and don't waste time weighing the facts.

[SassyLady]

You seem to think you know why one racial group hates the other. Why don't you enlighten us?

The only reason I can see is prejudice, stereotyping. No real basis. Hate for hate's sake.

See, there is where you are wrong. You assume that because one is willing to acknowledge that racism is rampant among all races, that one has to know the reasons. I merely acknowledged that there is racism among all races .... not just black/white. If you want to condemn racism, then do it across the board.

[tailfins]

You seem to think you know why one racial group hates the other. Why don't you enlighten us?

The only reason I can see is prejudice, stereotyping. No real basis. Hate for hate's sake.


You don't study history much do you? In a nutshell, the root is one racial group blaming another for an unpleasant situation. Consider Reconstruction. Also consider WWI reparations.

[Wind Song]

Why do we have racial profiling Wind Song? Why? For kicks? Or is there some evidence to support it?

Please tell me why you think this child deserved to die?

[SassyLady]

And in all honesty many NON blacks are afraid of young black men.


Why Rev, why? Why are non-blacks afraid of young black men? How did they get stereotyped?

[SassyLady]

Please tell me why you think this child deserved to die?

Please tell me where I said that?

[tailfins]

Please tell me why you think this child deserved to die?

Please tell me why you would be less outraged if he were white?

[DragonStryk72]

http://bjlacosteblogs.wordpress.com/2012/03/17/17-year-old-black-kid-killed-for-no-reason/

And we say racism doesn't exist in America.

Wait, you say that racism doesn't exist in America? I don't get where you think I ever said that, but I'm kind of shocked you did think it.

You know, I think an appropriate quote here would be from Chris Rock, "What ever happened to crazy?!"

Seriously, it can't be anything except racism?! Somebody shooting an unarmed person for no reason is clearly a mark of an unhinged mind, but you're too busy passing judgment to see that.

I also notice that despite your OP title, the actual truth is that the reason is never stated as to why Zimmerman opened fire. Oh, there's the part that rolls over to being an op-ed piece that throws conjecture, but nothing else.

So let's take this by the numbers shall we:


Before the police could arrive, Zimmerman shot and killed Martin.

Now, shooting an unarmed person, regardless of their race, is just wrong, so don't try and pull shit on me. The significance of this quote is the next one here:


Another issue is simply negligence. There is both negligence on behalf of Zimmerman and the Sanford Police Department, which did not immediately arrest Zimmerman

Um, how do they immediately arrest a man who shoots the person before the cops even get there? They did arrest him, and as long as he makes bail, then guess what? They don't have a choice, they have to let him go. But no, clearly it simply has to be negligence based on race. I love this assumption that the arresting officers are all white, btw. Way to not be racist at all on this one, because clearly there aren't any black police officers out there.

[Nukeman]

Repeat the question. Don't expect me to look for it through 2 pages just because you're whining.
Posted and reposted and still no answer to the simple question!!!

[Wind Song]

Please tell me why you would be less outraged if he were white?

If it had been a white that was shot for being "suspicious" aka "wearing a hoodie" I would be just as outraged.

What is this man with a previous arrest record for attacking a police officer doing working on "neighborhood watch" carrying a concealed weapon.

Why do we let nutjobs carry guns?


Please tell me where I said that?

I am asking you the question, not telling you what you said.

It appears that Sassy thinks racial profiling is justified.

Since this "stand your ground" law was enacted in Florida, in 2005, homicide murders have tripled.

How was racial profiling justified in this case? Was the boy carrying a knife, a gun? No, skittles and iced tea.

[jimnyc]

It appears that Sassy thinks racial profiling is justified.

It is, it's what one does with the subject/information that defines the problem. Good profiling, whether racial or other, is an invaluable tool.


Please tell me why you think this child deserved to die?


I am asking you the question, not telling you what you said.

No, you didn't ask, you stated that she thought this child deserved to die and stated it via a question.

Why do you lie so much?

[revelarts]

Why Rev, why? Why are non-blacks afraid of young black men? How did they get stereotyped?


So if the if we believe the stereotype is somehow deserved then the majority who don't fit it deserve what they get? Collateral damage?
Does that apply to women too? there are a few negative stereotypes about women that have some basis in fact ,do u want others to ASSUME them about you until you prove otherwise? or do i need to slap you around some 1st before you catch my meaning honey?

ya see what i mean?

[SassyLady]

Please tell me why you think this child deserved to die?

I am asking you the question, not telling you what you said.

Oh, I get it. You are trying to "shame" me into agreeing with your perspective by asking this type of question, even though I have not said one word about this child in particular.


Here's my answer:

I have no idea if he deserved to die because I was not there to witness the situation. I do not have the facts of the situation.

See how easy that was .... no reference to race at all.

[tailfins]

If it had been a white that was shot for being "suspicious" aka "wearing a hoodie" I would be just as outraged.

What is this man with a previous arrest record for attacking a police officer doing working on "neighborhood watch" carrying a concealed weapon.

Why do we let nutjobs carry guns?


Previous ARREST record, eh? Was he convicted? What is a "nutjob"? One man's lunatic is another man's philosopher. It's annoying to see situations judged on WHO was involved rather than WHAT they have done. While it's important to convict and sentence the guilty, it's equally important to avoid a repeat of the Duke LaCrosse case, see below for reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case

[jimnyc]

everyone of those blacks that are caught go to jail, they don't go home after they claim self defense becuase the white guy threaten them with an Ice tea.

show me THAT story and i'll start the thread.

You guys want to make this a race issue when there is no evidence of race playing a part, other than that the 2 involved are of different races. The rest is assumption.

And you think EVERY black that kills a white person is caught and go to jail? LOL I suppose you feel the same about black in white rapes, assaults...

You guys do the same with terrorists. Protect them and/or the techniques used to kill/capture them - but never a peep about the neverending deaths they cause.

[SassyLady]

So if the if we believe the stereotype is somehow deserved then the majority who don't fit it deserve what they get? Collateral damage?
Does that apply to women too? there are a few negative stereotypes about women that have some basis in fact ,do u want others to ASSUME them about you until you prove otherwise? or do i need to slap you around some 1st before you catch my meaning honey?

ya see what i mean?

Rev, you are avoiding the question. Why/how/when did "young, black men" get sterotyped as criminals?

This is typical liberal bias ... when one enters a discussion and asks questions about how things have come to pass...rather than focusing on the facts and answering the questions, they attack the questioner and try to shame them into compliance with their own personal reasoning.

I have not said young, black men are criminals. I have not said this young child deserved to die. I have merely asked those of you who have insisted it is a racist/hate crime to back up your assertions. Even if you think it is racial profiling ... tell me what factors are part of the racial profiling of young, black men. Where and when did this profile develop, etc.?

Who the hell knows ... maybe the shooter will one day confess that he hates young, black men because of something that happened to him personally in the past. Would it then be a racist incident ... or just revenge? Who knows????? You don't; I don't.

But quit trying to make every shooting of a non-white, by a white into a racist event. Sometimes it's is just a man shooting a child because they were overreacting to the situation.

So, regardless of whether the original incident is racially motivated this is what is developing.



The media feeding frenzy surrounding the suspicious death of Florida teen Trayvon Martin continues, and yet more racially-motivated actors are climbing out of the woodwork. Last night, Al Sharpton invited the grieving parents and family attorney onto his show, and joined in venting rage against the Florida Justice system (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/tawana-brawley-2-0-al-sharpton-sides-with-aggressor-in-self-defense-case/).Whether or not the shooting was motivated by racial animus, groups with precisely that motivation are involved now.

Enter the New Black Liberation Militia (NBLM), a militant group in the mold of the Black Panthers, headed by a man styling himself “Prince Najee Muhammad.“ The NBLM intends to march straight into Florida and perform a ”citizen’s arrest” on Martin’s shooter, George Zimmerman as a substitute for the arrest they believe should have happened. From the Associated Press story on this new development (http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/black-militia-group-wants-to-arrest-trayvon-martin-shooter.php):

Members of a self-described black militia group will attempt a citizen’s arrest on a white neighborhood watch leader who has admitted to fatally shooting an unarmed African-American teen in an Orlando suburb, but has not been charged, a leader of the group said Thursday.
Members of The New Black Liberation Militia plan to take 28-year-old George Zimmerman to federal authorities this week since local police haven’t acted, said Najee Muhammad, a leader of the militia group.
“We’ll find him. We’ve got his mug shot and everything,” Muhammad said.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/well-find-him-black-militia-organization-vows-vengeance-on-trayvon-martin-shooter/



But, let's not use this as a basis for profiling.

Here's the 911 calls

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/GRAPHIC-Trayvon-Martin-911-calls-released/-/1637132/9450044/-/6m827cz/-/index.html

[Missileman]

Let's review the facts. Teenage boy walking home with skittles and ice tea is percieived by armed neighborhood watch guy who percieves the kid as "suspicious". The guy is ALLOWED to kill this child because he felt "threatened". Yet is it the armed killer that gets out of his car and intimidates the kid. How threatened could he be if he gets out of the car to confront the kid with his gun at the ready?

Now add the color. White guy thinks this kid looks suspicious because the kid is black and is wearing a hoodie?


Too bad the guy's NOT white.

[Kathianne]

I agree that Wind is once again displaying her tendency towards all minorities being persecuted, including blacks, gays, transgenders, etc.

However, this case seems more a problem with neighborhood watch groups, rather than profiling.

If the guy wasn't carrying, this would have been a tussle. But he was. This guy may have been 'profiling,' but without any training and even if really law enforcement, they aren't supposed to do so, wrongly, in my opinion. I think profiling is commonsense, but with training and experience.

Truth is, this 'kid' seems to have been killed in cold blood, as far as information is current. Might change, but seems the kid didn't want to kowtow and the vigilante neighborhood watch guy had a piece.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/20/2703918/lawyer-girl-on-phone-with-trayvon.html

[revelarts]

You guys want to make this a race issue when there is no evidence of race playing a part, other than that the 2 involved are of different races. The rest is assumption.
So Obama being a black man was not and is not a issue that influcences black and whites preception of him. Race should not be an issue anywhere but your being stupid if you don't think it influcenses a lot of crap. Just the number of racist comments that have flown across this forum should show you that race is an issue. I don't know you family but in many non black families a female family member wanted to marry a black guy , who happened to have a personally just like the girls father. he might be accepted by a lot of the family in time but i'd GUESS it would not be an overnight and one reason is his race. Some may NEVER get over it. that's just the way it is.
On the job if everyone is of one race and a new hire is black part of his/her intergration will be overcoming any racial tensions. If you were black and went into an all white neighborhood would you expect that some people might fell uncomfortable becuase of your race or would you just expect everyone to treat you just as if you were another white guy they had never seen? Race is an issue ignoring it and denying it doesn't make it go away.


everyone of those blacks that are caught go to jail,

And you think EVERY black that kills a white person is caught and go to jail? LOL....

please read what i said more carefully, thanks.




...
You guys do the same with terrorists. Protect them and/or the techniques used to kill/capture them - but never a peep about the neverending deaths they cause.
So an innocent kid is compared to a terrorist now? why, Because he's black? Well no it's not that, is it because he's dead, therefore he must have done something wrong? why are you talking about
terrorist?!?!?! if you defend the right of an innocent black kid to walk the streets it's like defending known terrorist?!??! WTH.

[Wind Song]

This boy should not have been killed. Are we now empowering "neighborhood watch groups" to shoot anyone they think is "suspicious"?


Previous ARREST record, eh? Was he convicted? What is a "nutjob"? One man's lunatic is another man's philosopher. It's annoying to see situations judged on WHO was involved rather than WHAT they have done. While it's important to convict and sentence the guilty, it's equally important to avoid a repeat of the Duke LaCrosse case, see below for reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case

Your "philosopher" shot an unarmed child guilty of nothing but eating skittles. This man saw a "boogie man" instead of a child.

[Kathianne]

Your "philosopher" shot an unarmed child guilty of nothing but eating skittles. This man saw a "boogie man" instead of a child.

He ate no Skittles, they were for his brother. More evidence of your spin.

[Wind Song]

He ate no Skittles, they were for his brother. More evidence of your spin.

I'm sure the fact of whether he merely "carried" the skittles or ate them is a really important fact.
Bottom line. Innocent child murdered for nothing.

[darin]

Too bad the guy's NOT white.

WS is a blatant racist. He doesn't care about reason or facts. WS is an example of the worst of mankind in that regard; self-centered, ideological-driven without the capacity for sound thought, or an open mind.

[Missileman]

WS is a blatant racist. He doesn't care about reason or facts. WS is an example of the worst of mankind in that regard; self-centered, ideological-driven without the capacity for sound thought, or an open mind.

It's pretty funny that WS ran in wagging the racist finger while assuming black victim equals white shooter.

[Wind Song]

It's pretty funny that WS ran in wagging the racist finger while assuming black victim equals white shooter.

Clearly, this was a racially motivated killing. WFTV says there is a racial slur in the 911 call.
My mistake, the guy's last name is Zimmerman. How was I to surmise he is mixed race?

[Kathianne]

I'm sure the fact of whether he merely "carried" the skittles or ate them is a really important fact.
Bottom line. Innocent child murdered for nothing.

So you posted that only for spin. Got it

[RadiomanATL]

Clearly, this was a racially motivated killing.

If everyone is disagreeing with you that it was, it's not so clear. Clearly. Further going down that logical path, if you are the only one that thinks it was, then probably it clearly was not.

[DragonStryk72]

It appears that Sassy thinks racial profiling is justified.

Since this "stand your ground" law was enacted in Florida, in 2005, homicide murders have tripled.

How was racial profiling justified in this case? Was the boy carrying a knife, a gun? No, skittles and iced tea.

And I see we decided to skip my "The man's fucking crazy" thought, but that seems to follow your trend of only answering the points you feel are easily defended. Nowhere in your article does it state that there was racism involved, save for the op-ed of the author. You have no definitive proof of your claims, and it on you, not us, to prove your points that you asserted. You started this run, that means its on you to answer others. All this "Do your own reading" crap is just arrogance

[Missileman]

Clearly, this was a racially motivated killing. WFTV says there is a racial slur in the 911 call.
My mistake, the guy's last name is Zimmerman. How was I to surmise he is mixed race?

I recommend waiting for more facts rather than jumping to conclusions. As for the name, Thomas Jefferson and George Jefferson, how would one surmise one is a white guy and one is black?

[jimnyc]

So Obama being a black man was not and is not a issue that influcences black and whites preception of him. Race should not be an issue anywhere but your being stupid if you don't think it influcenses a lot of crap. Just the number of racist comments that have flown across this forum should show you that race is an issue. I don't know you family but in many non black families a female family member wanted to marry a black guy , who happened to have a personally just like the girls father. he might be accepted by a lot of the family in time but i'd GUESS it would not be an overnight and one reason is his race. Some may NEVER get over it. that's just the way it is.
On the job if everyone is of one race and a new hire is black part of his/her intergration will be overcoming any racial tensions. If you were black and went into an all white neighborhood would you expect that some people might fell uncomfortable becuase of your race or would you just expect everyone to treat you just as if you were another white guy they had never seen? Race is an issue ignoring it and denying it doesn't make it go away.

All that babbling and you didn't address my point - which is that there is NO evidence of race playing a part in this shooting. NONE.


So an innocent kid is compared to a terrorist now? why, Because he's black? Well no it's not that, is it because he's dead, therefore he must have done something wrong? why are you talking about
terrorist?!?!?! if you defend the right of an innocent black kid to walk the streets it's like defending known terrorist?!??! WTH.

I made no such comparison. Simply pointing out that some hypocrisy knows no boundaries. You defend when it suits you, but ignore many, many worse crimes.

So now that your inane rambling is done, and I see WS still hasn't posted it - can YOU post any proof that this incident was about race, or solely about race? Because absent that proof, this would appear to be either self defense as the hispanic man claimed, or a horrible crime that he committed. But even if that's the case, I don't see how race becomes a factor in matters, absent evidence/proof. So stop foaming at the mouth as usual and stick more with facts and proof.

[revelarts]

Rev, you are avoiding the question. Why/how/when did "young, black men" get sterotyped as criminals?

This is typical liberal bias ... when one enters a discussion and asks questions about how things have come to pass...rather than focusing on the facts and answering the questions, they attack the questioner and try to shame them into compliance with their own personal reasoning.

I have not said young, black men are criminals. I have not said this young child deserved to die. I have merely asked those of you who have insisted it is a racist/hate crime to back up your assertions. Even if you think it is racial profiling ... tell me what factors are part of the racial profiling of young, black men. Where and when did this profile develop, etc.?

Who the hell knows ... maybe the shooter will one day confess that he hates young, black men because of something that happened to him personally in the past. Would it then be a racist incident ... or just revenge? Who knows????? You don't; I don't.

But quit trying to make every shooting of a non-white, by a white into a racist event. Sometimes it's is just a man shooting a child because they were overreacting to the situation.


"But quit trying to make every shooting of a non-white, by a white into a racist event."

Please tell me the last time, well anytime, i've made a non-white shooting into a racist event? ever. I'll wait.



So I'm avoiding the question? um no, a few here are avoiding the question. The question is what's the most likley reason why this guy Zimmerman felt it was wise to shoot this kid? the most obvious answer. racism. Sure he may just be paranoid soul but to RULE OUT race as a factor doesn't make sense AT ALL. Maybe everyone you know is blind to race. Like everyone on this board is:rolleyes:. But in america Race is a factor and when all other factors have been ruled out one is only ignored if it's people are defending THIER race. it's not a factor in many cases, however here it seem very likely.


You want me explain stereotypes, the way you've asked the question is a bit of an admission that many people do assume the worst about young black kids, guilty until proven innocent. Some think there's justification for that attitude. and SEEM to blame the whole race for the actions of some. Should Whites be judged that way? And it's almost as if some want to make a sideways excuse for Zimmerman, almost sounds Something like
--well blacks have a bad rep, so we can't really fault him for overreacting... if he did. --
similar pattern of thought as
--a lot of women dress like they WANT to get rapped soo.--

But you ask me about where stereotypes come from,
Well for at least 500 years Europeans have been stereotyping Africans in about every negative way that can be imagined. do you want the whole history? In America they created more and new stereotypes to keep blacks in control and to justify slavery in their own minds. Most of those stereotypes persist until today in some form.
i can go into detail if you like, but i'd rather not give fuel to the "i'm not racist" but only use racial slurs/stereotypes because they are real.

[Wind Song]

So you posted that only for spin. Got it
The boy had skittles and ice tea. Show me the story that says he didn't eat the skittles or drink the tea.

You're so petty. Point is, he was an innocent kid and he was killed for getting ice tea and skittles and walking home.

[jimnyc]

Clearly, this was a racially motivated killing. WFTV says there is a racial slur in the 911 call.
My mistake, the guy's last name is Zimmerman. How was I to surmise he is mixed race?

ANY proof at all yet? How about posting those eyewitness statements you already said you read and proved it was solely based on the fact that he was black? And the 911 audio confirming the same? Please, save your rhetoric and excuses. You made the claim and gave these 2 things as your evidence. I'm simply asking you to post them 2 things. I'll even say it.... Please?

[jimnyc]

the most obvious answer. racism.

The facts be damned! It's "obvious", even though you can't supply ANY proof at all other than your ramblings and suspicions.

[revelarts]

.. Because absent that proof, this would appear to be either self defense as the hispanic man claimed, or a horrible crime that he committed. But even if that's the case, I don't see how race becomes a factor in matters, absent evidence/proof. So stop foaming at the mouth as usual and stick more with facts and proof.
Fine Jim
so none of the black on white crime is motivated by race either correct. until you can PROVE, WITH FACTS And EVIDENCE and IRREFUTABLE PROOF of EACH and every crime.
until you POST it so all us can see it and Agree that it's SOLEY based on race you should be quiet about it as well.

[jimnyc]

Fine Jim
so none of the black on white crime is motivated by race either correct. until you can PROVE, WITH FACTS And EVIDENCE and PROOF of EACH and every crime.
until you POST it so all us can see it and Agree that it's SOLEY based on race you should be quiet about it as well.

Each and every time I post about a jerk off black person I do the very best I can to supply facts to backup my stances. Is that concept too fucking hard for you to grasp? Nevermind, I forgot your posting history.

Feel free to call me out on facts when I do the same. Until then, we have 2 nitwits in this thread making this a "kid being killed for being black" issue when there is NO evidence.

[SassyLady]

"But quit trying to make every shooting of a non-white, by a white into a racist event."

Please tell me the last time, well anytime, i've made a non-white shooting into a racist event? ever. I'll wait.

I apologize Rev ... I did use your quote for the first part of my post, but then switched to including others for the highlighted comment I made above.




So I'm avoiding the question? um no, a few here are avoiding the question. The question is what's the most likley reason why this guy Zimmerman felt it was wise to shoot this kid? the most obvious answer. racism. Sure he may just be paranoid soul but to RULE OUT race as a factor doesn't make sense AT ALL. Maybe everyone you know is blind to race. Like everyone on this board is:rolleyes:. But in america Race is a factor and when all other factors have been ruled out one is only ignored if it's people are defending THIER race. it's not a factor in many cases, however here it seem very likely.

I have not ruled out race as a factor....I'm just not jumping to the conclusion that race is a factor simply because the kid was black, like others have, including yourself. For all we know the shooter might have stereotyped the kid because he had a hoodie...maybe it was because the kid was staring at him while he sat in the car and approached him in the car. Go listen to the 911 tape link I supplied above and ask yourself if the guy seemed to be out to kill a black kid.



You want me explain stereotypes, the way you've asked the question is a bit of an admission that many people do assume the worst about young black kids, guilty until proven innocent. Some think there's justification for that attitude. and SEEM to blame the whole race for the actions of some. Should Whites be judged that way?

Whites are judged that way. You and Windsong have judged the man that did the shooting and implied it was because he is a racist. Isn't that judging?


And it's almost as if some want to make a sideways excuse for Zimmerman, almost sounds Something like
--well blacks have a bad rep, so we can't really fault him for overreacting... if he did. --
similar pattern of thought as
--a lot of women dress like they WANT to get rapped soo.--

But you ask me about where stereotypes come from,
Well for at least 500 years Europeans have been stereotyping Africans in about every negative way that can be imagined. do you want the whole history? In America they created more and new stereotypes to keep blacks in control and to justify slavery in their own minds. Most of those stereotypes persist until today in some form.
i can go into detail if you like, but i'd rather not give fuel to the "i'm not racist" but only use racial slurs/stereotypes because they are real.

I do stereotype/profile people, and it could cause my death someday. I have a more heightened awareness around men following me out of the grocery store into the parking lot. However, there have been instances where women have assaulted other women in grocery store parking lots and stolen their purses. However, the majority are usually men (of all races BTW) on women. So, based upon the numbers and the way a man might be acting, I will react to him differently than I would a woman following me out of the store. Someday I might get assaulted by a woman because I didn't put that information into my profiling data bag. That is profiling/stereotyping. It is human nature; it is a survival tactic.

[jimnyc]

Go listen to the 911 tape link I supplied above and ask yourself if the guy seemed to be out to kill a black kid.

But, but, but, wait, wait... I'm confused... Wing Nut told me that the 911 audio was proof that this was a killing based solely on race? Are you saying the actual audio doesn't back up her claim?

I never would have known. I thought she was just having difficulty providing a link or posting it. I thought for sure we would hear audio of this racist proving his motives were purely based on race!

[revelarts]

Each and every time I post about a jerk off black person I do the very best I can to supply facts to backup my stances. Is that concept too fucking hard for you to grasp? Nevermind, I forgot your posting history.

Feel free to call me out on facts when I do the same. Until then, we have 2 nitwits in this thread making this a "kid being killed for being black" issue when there is NO evidence.


White people are killed every day by blacks, from one end of the country to the other, and many, many of them are for "being white" - yet I've seen ZERO threads posted by you attacking any of those animals...

so that's one there are other threads

[jimnyc]

I have not ruled out race as a factor....I'm just not jumping to the conclusion that race is a factor simply because the kid was black, like others have, including yourself. For all we know the shooter might have stereotyped the kid because he had a hoodie...maybe it was because the kid was staring at him while he sat in the car and approached him in the car. Go listen to the 911 tape link I supplied above and ask yourself if the guy seemed to be out to kill a black kid.

This is more or less how I see it. Who knows what happened. We do know a kid was killed, and that's horrible. We know the neighborhood watch was carrying a gun, which certainly seems excessive, unless of course he was trained (which I have no idea of knowing at this point, nor do others). Unless his life was on the line though, I can't find a single reasonable reason for him to have shot. But he could have asked the kids a question or 2, the kid got mouthy and defensive in return, more words exchanged, turns into a scuffle, and bam - tragedy. But absent actual proof, I can't label this guy a racist and this a racist hate crime. It would seem anymore that whenever a younger black child is shot, its got to be racially motivated, could never be anything else.

[jimnyc]

so that's one there are other threads

I was speaking in general, dumbass. Do you want examples of black on white crime, and instances of it being solely about race? Just accept that you have no proof in this thread and stop with your baby games. You always have to write some long, hard to read, post that is littered with a bunch of mumbo jumbo that really has nothing to do with the thread topic.

How about we go back on topic, Rev. - Can you please post proof of this being a racial crime? Or is it that the best you can do is post your version of what you think happened, and try and claim it as fact?

[SassyLady]

I was speaking in general, dumbass. Do you want examples of black on white crime, and instances of it being solely about race? Just accept that you have no proof in this thread and stop with your baby games. You always have to write some long, hard to read, post that is littered with a bunch of mumbo jumbo that really has nothing to do with the thread topic.

How about we go back on topic, Rev. - Can you please post proof of this being a racial crime? Or is it that the best you can do is post your version of what you think happened, and try and claim it as fact?

People are saying that he called the kid a "black male"....if you listen to the tape he doesn't know what he is at first but the 911 dispatcher asks him if he can tell and once he determines he is black, then he reconfirms it for the dispatcher. It is my belief he had already locked in on this kid simply because he was acting strange and wearing a hoodie ... way before he knew he was black.

[Kathianne]

The boy had skittles and ice tea. Show me the story that says he didn't eat the skittles or drink the tea.

You're so petty. Point is, he was an innocent kid and he was killed for getting ice tea and skittles and walking home.

You're obviously just nutters. No excuses could suffice.

[Wind Song]

You're obviously just nutters. No excuses could suffice.
Try and stay on topic. Listen to the 911 call. Zimmerman is clearly muttering "fuckin' coons" under his breath.

[SassyLady]

Try and stay on topic. Listen to the 911 call. Zimmerman is clearly muttering "fuckin' coons" under his breath.

I listened ... I did not clearly hear "coons". Probably because that word is not in my vocabulary, therefore, it's not what I hear. You, on the other hand, might use this word frequently, which is why it is the first thing you heard.

No one has CLEARLY defined what he is saying. A lot of speculation...but muffled and definitely not CLEAR.

Is "clearly" one of those words used by liberals to try and show they are smarter than us ignorant conservatives?

[Wind Song]

I listened ... I did not clearly hear "coons". Probably because that word is not in my vocabulary, therefore, it's not what I hear. You, on the other hand, might use this word frequently, which is why it is the first thing you heard.

No one has CLEARLY defined what he is saying. A lot of speculation...but muffled and definitely not CLEAR.

Is "clearly" one of those words used by liberals to try and show they are smarter than us ignorant conservatives?

I never use the term, "coon". Some people hear the terms "fucking coons" said under the breath. Others do not. Clearly, this is a racial killing.


People are saying that he called the kid a "black male"....if you listen to the tape he doesn't know what he is at first but the 911 dispatcher asks him if he can tell and once he determines he is black, then he reconfirms it for the dispatcher. It is my belief he had already locked in on this kid simply because he was acting strange and wearing a hoodie ... way before he knew he was black.


Bull. The kid put the hoodie on AFTER Zimmerman started following him. Zimmerman knew he was following a black youth.

[SassyLady]

Bull. The kid put the hoodie on AFTER Zimmerman started following him. Zimmerman knew he was following a black youth.

Oooops ... guess I pissed you off. You need to listen to the tapes again with an open mind this time.


Police Chief Bill Lee said the 911 calls show that the incident was not a case of racial profiling. He said Zimmerman could not say whether the suspect was black or white. However, on the tape you hear Zimmerman say “He looks black” and then a few moments later, “He’s a black male.” While he is at first equivocal, he does identify his race. That does not mean that this is a case of profiling, of course.

http://jonathanturley.org/2012/03/19/the-zimmerman-tapes-911-recordings-released-from-shooting-of-teen-in-florida-by-watchman/

[Wind Song]

Oooops ... guess I pissed you off. You need to listen to the tapes again with an open mind this time.

Whatever gave you that idea? I'm not "pissed off" at all.

[SassyLady]

I never use the term, "coon". Some people hear the terms "fucking coons" said under the breath. Others do not. Clearly, this is a racial killing.

Have you been drinking? Because your definition of clearly is a little tipsy.


Whatever gave you that idea? I'm not "pissed off" at all.

You used the "bull" word which seems to be a pretty strong word for you.

BTW ... is all this you are saying in this thread in accordance with Right Speech?

[Wind Song]

Have you been drinking? Because your definition of clearly is a little tipsy.


No, I haven't been drinking. This is a racially motivated killing of an innocent child. Try and stay on topic. A Florida TV station is saying Zimmerman might have muttered “f---ing coons” under his breath on the 911 tape, but it’s difficult to tell for sure.

[SassyLady]

No, I haven't been drinking. This is a racially motivated killing of an innocent child. Try and stay on topic. A Florida TV station is saying Zimmerman might have muttered “f---ing coons” under his breath on the 911 tape, but it’s difficult to tell for sure.

Oh, and so, instead of listening to the tape yourself, you want to listen to a TV station that CLEARLY just wants to hype this story for ratings?

[revelarts]

This is more or less how I see it. Who knows what happened. We do know a kid was killed, and that's horrible. We know the neighborhood watch was carrying a gun, which certainly seems excessive, unless of course he was trained (which I have no idea of knowing at this point, nor do others). Unless his life was on the line though, I can't find a single reasonable reason for him to have shot. But he could have asked the kids a question or 2, the kid got mouthy and defensive in return, more words exchanged, turns into a scuffle, and bam - tragedy. But absent actual proof, I can't label this guy a racist and this a racist hate crime. It would seem anymore that whenever a younger black child is shot, its got to be racially motivated, could never be anything else.

BUT HE COULD HAVE...

But it could have been racism too huh?

now i don't know what else Windsong posted but i looked around on my own and there is a YOUTUBE of a news conference where a witness overheard the kid crying and whimpering then she heard the shot and then there was no more crying.

that sadly rules out your made up scenario, which you came up with with absolutely NO PROOF. But assumed a mouthy kid with an ice tea against a guy with a gun.

so the witness to the sound of the kid rules out mouthing OFF and SCUFFLE. Or at the least MOUTHING OFF after a scuffle. A scuffle or confrentation That was unnecessary becuase Zimmerman DISOBEYED THE POLICE !!(a capital offense every other place that's mentioned on this board) by following the kid. this is PROVED by the 911 tapes.
It sounds as if the kid was finally very scared of this guy holding a gun on him. Doesn't sound like self defense either.

Inductively we are running out of motives folks.

and just because not EVERY white on black shooting is racially motivated doesn't mean THIS ONE is not.
Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, however the circumstances here at least need to brought to trial for more scrutiny over what happened his motive HAS to be defense ANYTHING else is not good enough and he should have been arrested.


...Based on what she heard, the girl believes that Martin was pushed, said Crump, who added that the girl did not hear any gunfire.

Phone records show Martin was on the phone with her much of the day, including around the time of the killing, Crump said. He argued that if Martin were really "up to no good," he wouldn't have been chatting with his friend on the phone...



...Police say they have not charged Zimmerman, 28, because they have no evidence to contradict his story that he shot in self-defense....http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/20/justice/florida-teen-shooting/


??????


The police do have evidence in their own 911 tapes he's chasing a kid through the nieghborhood with a gun for no good reason other than a gut feeling. Based on ???? you fill in the blanks. I have.

[Wind Song]

Oh, and so, instead of listening to the tape yourself, you want to listen to a TV station that CLEARLY just wants to hype this story for ratings?

No, I listened to it myself.

[Missileman]

No, I listened to it myself.

And did you clearly hear Zimmerman say "fucking coon"?

[Wind Song]

And did you clearly hear Zimmerman say "fucking coon"?


Did I say I clearly heard him say those words? If you really listen to the 911 call you definitely see that Zimmerman is out of control. He doesn't listen to LE, and for that reason, a boy is dead.

[Missileman]

Did I say I clearly heard him say those words? If you really listen to the 911 call you definitely see that Zimmerman is out of control. He doesn't listen to LE, and for that reason, a boy is dead.

No, you just keep saying this is "clearly" a case of racism...and based on your own statement, your assessment of the case is unsubstantiated.

[DragonStryk72]

Clearly, this was a racially motivated killing. WFTV says there is a racial slur in the 911 call.
My mistake, the guy's last name is Zimmerman. How was I to surmise he is mixed race?

Well, at least you admit your prejudice, that's really the first step I suppose. You saw a last name, and made all your assumptions right there, screw proof. Here's one: Don't assume, especially when you're about to stereotype every white man, and every cop, on the planet. Hell, you even stereotyped blacks in this one, sort of a round robin

Now to everyone else, I'd like to actually talk about my own feelings on this:

The death of a child, even at 17, is a tragedy, even moreso in a wrongful death where clearly the boy was innocent. Hell, skittles and iced tea describes one of my usual carry lists from 7-11. This could have been anyone's kid, and honestly, I blame this on the lack of communication between neighbors.

It used to be that we would get to know our neighbors names and faces, to know who all was living in the area as a matter of course. Now, however, we barely know most of our neighbors, let alone recognize them on the street. Kids would go around the neighborhood hawking girl scout cookies, candy, and other such stuff, learning the neighborhood, and the neighbors would get used to seeing them regularly. But those days are gone, and it has only served to make us more paranoid about those who live around us.

I don't think it's a matter of one law or another. I think it's a matter of neighbors getting to know each other again, becoming a real community again, and that doesn't require more laws or less. It just requires our leaders to lead us away from this clinging paranoia we've been building up since the early 2000s.


BUT HE COULD HAVE...

But it could have been racism too huh?

now i don't know what else Windsong posted but i looked around on my own and there is a YOUTUBE of a news conference where a witness overheard the kid crying and whimpering then she heard the shot and then there was no more crying.

that sadly rules out your made up scenario, which you came up with with absolutely NO PROOF. But assumed a mouthy kid with an ice tea against a guy with a gun.

so the witness to the sound of the kid rules out mouthing OFF and SCUFFLE. Or at the least MOUTHING OFF after a scuffle. A scuffle or confrentation That was unnecessary becuase Zimmerman DISOBEYED THE POLICE !!(a capital offense every other place that's mentioned on this board) by following the kid. this is PROVED by the 911 tapes.
It sounds as if the kid was finally very scared of this guy holding a gun on him. Doesn't sound like self defense either.

Inductively we are running out of motives folks.

and just because not EVERY white on black shooting is racially motivated doesn't mean THIS ONE is not.
Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, however the circumstances here at least need to brought to trial for more scrutiny over what happened his motive HAS to be defense ANYTHING else is not good enough and he should have been arrested.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/20/justice/florida-teen-shooting/


??????


The police do have evidence in their own 911 tapes he's chasing a kid through the nieghborhood with a gun for no good reason other than a gut feeling. Based on ???? you fill in the blanks. I have.

I still go with the "he's batshit insane" line of thinking, which again, means something other than racist.

[Nukeman]

Did I say I clearly heard him say those words? If you really listen to the 911 call you definitely see that Zimmerman is out of control. He doesn't listen to LE, and for that reason, a boy is dead.
SEVEN MORE PAGES AND YOU STILL CANT ASNWER MY SIMPLE QUESTION THAT I EVEN REPOSTED TO YOU AT YOUR REQUEST... so once again you ignor what you dont want to answer..... Or what may make you actually have to think

[Wind Song]

No, you just keep saying this is "clearly" a case of racism...and based on your own statement, your assessment of the case is unsubstantiated.

That's my opinion. You don't like it? Too bad.


SEVEN MORE PAGES AND YOU STILL CANT ASNWER MY SIMPLE QUESTION THAT I EVEN REPOSTED TO YOU AT YOUR REQUEST... so once again you ignor what you dont want to answer..... Or what may make you actually have to think


I'm ignoring YOU, yes. You want to know what proof I have that this incident was racist. Perhaps, the guy whispering "fuckin coons" on the 911 tape is proof for some people, the ones who hear it clearly. Sirius XM radio talk host Joe Madison claims to have enhanced the publicly available 911 recording and posted it on his website (http://www.reddingnewsreview.com/newspages/2012newspages/joe_madison_uncovers_racial_slur_12_1000036.htm), which indeed does sound very similar to the alleged racial slur.

The Miami Herald (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html#storylink=cpy) wrote that neighbors interviewed said that "Zimmerman went door-to-door asking residents to be on the lookout, specifically referring to young black men who appeared to be outsiders, and warned that some were caught lurking.

What I know in my heart about this incident comes from a lifetime of experience and from talking to African American families, none of whom was surprised, but all were saddened by this killing. Think Emmett Till.

[darin]

The shooter being a racist (or not) doesn't bear into the details of what happened to him deciding to shoot. See, you're claiming the kid was shot 'only because of his skin color'. The reasonable people in this thread are telling you 'that's a stupid conclusion without having any facts'.

The reasonable people say "The police had/have a vested interest in arresting murderers. The shooter was not arrested on probable cause".

See, reasonable people like to get a few facts before making a decision. What you are doing is 'jumping to a conclusion'.

Howniceforyou.

[tailfins]

I'm ignoring YOU, yes. You want to know what proof I have that this incident was racist. Perhaps, the guy whispering "fuckin coons" on the 911 tape is proof for some people, the ones who hear it clearly. Sirius XM radio talk host Joe Madison claims to have enhanced the publicly available 911 recording and posted it on his website (http://www.reddingnewsreview.com/newspages/2012newspages/joe_madison_uncovers_racial_slur_12_1000036.htm), which indeed does sound very similar to the alleged racial slur.

The Miami Herald (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html#storylink=cpy) wrote that neighbors interviewed said that "Zimmerman went door-to-door asking residents to be on the lookout, specifically referring to young black men who appeared to be outsiders, and warned that some were caught lurking.

What I know in my heart about this incident comes from a lifetime of experience and from talking to African American families, none of whom was surprised, but all were saddened by this killing. Think Emmett Till.

When you fixate on a racial component, you distract from the addressing WHAT was done as opposed to the demographics of who did it. If the shooter is guilty of involuntary manslaughter with a firearm his goose is cooked. You seem to think racial bias is a greater crime than manslaughter. Let me guess: You think such a racist pig isn't entitled to a fair trial in front of an impartial jury.

[Wind Song]

When you fixate on a racial component, you distract from the addressing WHAT was done as opposed to the demographics of who did it. If the shooter is guilty of involuntary manslaughter with a firearm his goose is cooked. You seem to think racial bias is a greater crime than manslaughter. Let me guess: You think such a racist pig isn't entitled to a fair trial in front of an impartial jury.


Nonsense. He deserves a fair trial.

[jimnyc]

Why doesn't it surprise me that I come back after a good nights sleep and still see no proof in here. Oh well, hopefully the police and court system will sort it all out. And hopefully they won't make up the story as they go along based on their emotions and neglecting the facts.

[jimnyc]

What no one has really touched upon yet - Zimmerman hasn't even been arrested. If the crap being posted here is "proof", then why hasn't he been charged, and charged with a hate crime no less?

[Wind Song]

Why doesn't it surprise me that I come back after a good nights sleep and still see no proof in here. Oh well, hopefully the police and court system will sort it all out. And hopefully they won't make up the story as they go along based on their emotions and neglecting the facts.


I'm not the guy's lawyer or the families. I don't have prove anything. This is my opinion. I share it with many other people.

If you want to ignore racism, stay ignorant.

Do you think Zimmerman was right to kill Trayvon Martin because he "looked suspicious and was wearing a hoodie"? Even LE told him to back off. Zimmerman was trigger happy.

[jimnyc]

I'm not the guy's lawyer or the families. I don't have prove anything. This is my opinion. I share it with many other people.

If you want to ignore racism, stay ignorant.

YOU claimed there was proof though, and even stated where to find it - but REFUSE to post it. As many have stated here already, NONE of the things you claimed as proof actually are - aka the 911 call and eyewitnesses. YOU claimed they proved this man acted solely based on race - and it CLEARLY shows no such thing. No skin off my back if you want to backtrack and hide instead of simply backing up your claims. Makes YOU look stupid and ignorant, not me.

[jimnyc]

And please answer my other question, Wing Nut, why do you think this man hasn't even been arrested?

[darin]

If the kid attacked Zimmerman, I wonder if WS would assume the kid attacked Z out of racism.

[gabosaurus]

If people would actually read the facts of this case, they would find that there is little racism involved. It's more about a guy who wanted desperately to be a hero. Someone who, as a member of a "neighborhood watch," had called 911 close to 50 times in the space of a year. A guy who called 911 to report a "suspicious person" walking in his gated neighborhood. When asked by the 911 dispatcher not to do anything further, he pursued an unarmed kid and shot him.
It is also an indictment of a flawed Florida law that states than anyone can claim "self defense" for any reason and use deadly force.
This isn't a story of black kid who was shot. It is the story of a KID who was shot. A 14 year old boy who was someone's son.
Perhaps that doesn't matter to you. After all, it wasn't your kid. Though it could have been.

[jimnyc]

If people would actually read the facts of this case, they would find that there is little racism involved. It's more about a guy who wanted desperately to be a hero. Someone who, as a member of a "neighborhood watch," had called 911 close to 50 times in the space of a year. A guy who called 911 to report a "suspicious person" walking in his gated neighborhood. When asked by the 911 dispatcher not to do anything further, he pursued an unarmed kid and shot him.
It is also an indictment of a flawed Florida law that states than anyone can claim "self defense" for any reason and use deadly force.
This isn't a story of black kid who was shot. It is the story of a KID who was shot. A 14 year old boy who was someone's son.
Perhaps that doesn't matter to you. After all, it wasn't your kid. Though it could have been.

Not a single person here condemned the kid. He was 17, not 14. Many here simply argued that the killing wasn't JUST based on race, or race at all based on the facts. Other than that, I agree with the rest of your post.

[darin]

If people would actually read the facts of this case, they would find that there is little racism involved. It's more about a guy who wanted desperately to be a hero. Someone who, as a member of a "neighborhood watch," had called 911 close to 50 times in the space of a year. A guy who called 911 to report a "suspicious person" walking in his gated neighborhood. When asked by the 911 dispatcher not to do anything further, he pursued an unarmed kid and shot him.
It is also an indictment of a flawed Florida law that states than anyone can claim "self defense" for any reason and use deadly force.
This isn't a story of black kid who was shot. It is the story of a KID who was shot. A 14 year old boy who was someone's son.
Perhaps that doesn't matter to you. After all, it wasn't your kid. Though it could have been.

You are sort-of right, however you grossly mischaracterize the Florida law.

The story will probably be about a young kid who physically assaulted a guy attempting to question him, then gets shot in the scuffle.

[gabosaurus]

You are sort-of right, however you grossly mischaracterize the Florida law.

The story will probably be about a young kid who physically assaulted a guy attempting to question him, then gets shot in the scuffle.

Where is the evidence that the kid assaulted anyone? It's not on the 911 call. Or the call the kid was making to his girlfriend.
The kid was shot in cold blood by some idiot who thought he was the God of his neighborhood.

[Dilloduck]

If people would actually read the facts of this case, they would find that there is little racism involved. It's more about a guy who wanted desperately to be a hero. Someone who, as a member of a "neighborhood watch," had called 911 close to 50 times in the space of a year. A guy who called 911 to report a "suspicious person" walking in his gated neighborhood. When asked by the 911 dispatcher not to do anything further, he pursued an unarmed kid and shot him.
It is also an indictment of a flawed Florida law that states than anyone can claim "self defense" for any reason and use deadly force.
This isn't a story of black kid who was shot. It is the story of a KID who was shot. A 14 year old boy who was someone's son.
Perhaps that doesn't matter to you. After all, it wasn't your kid. Though it could have been.

Do you enjoy trashing out hispanic people before you know their side of the story ? Sounds like a little racism to me.

[Wind Song]

YOU claimed there was proof though, and even stated where to find it - but REFUSE to post it. As many have stated here already, NONE of the things you claimed as proof actually are - aka the 911 call and eyewitnesses. YOU claimed they proved this man acted solely based on race - and it CLEARLY shows no such thing. No skin off my back if you want to backtrack and hide instead of simply backing up your claims. Makes YOU look stupid and ignorant, not me.

I would advise you to use quotes if you are referring to one of my posts. There are many stories out there now. The 911 tapes are available to listen to. If you're too lazy to bother then don't expect me to do your work for you.

Yesterday I was posting from an ancient laptop and it was too slow loading for me to do a lot of adding materials to my posts.

Today I'm very busy getting ready to leave for a trip.

You're very demanding and acting like a baby having a tantrum. Get over yourself. I thought this was a discussion board, not a courtroom. Meaning, I give my opinion, and I back my opinion with fact.

Fact is, this boy was killed for no reason. There are racial elements to the killing, and the other issue is the law in Florida which allowing people to kill others on no more than "suspicion" or "feeling threatened".

[gabosaurus]

Both sides of the story are out there, in detail. I have to wonder why people keep harping on the "racism" part of the story. It's not about racism. It's about cold blooded murder.

[jimnyc]

I would advise you to use quotes if you are referring to one of my posts. There are many stories out there now. The 911 tapes are available to listen to. If you're too lazy to bother then don't expect me to do your work for you.

Yesterday I was posting from an ancient laptop and it was too slow loading for me to do a lot of adding materials to my posts.

Today I'm very busy getting ready to leave for a trip.

You're very demanding and acting like a baby having a tantrum. Get over yourself.

I did quote your post when replying, dolt.

And I already know the answers to my questions about the 911 audio and eyewitnesses, and they SAY NOTHING to backup your claims - and that's EXACTLY why I've been asking you to post them. And that's EXACTLY why you won't, because YOU KNOW they contain nothing at all to backup your claims about "solely being killed because of race". If they did contain such and proved your point, you would have posted them over and over. You're fueled by your emotions and made ASSumptions, and they were wrong, and you just can't admit it. But with every post you make and refuse to admit such and/or post your proof, you just look that much more foolish.

[jimnyc]

Both sides of the story are out there, in detail. I have to wonder why people keep harping on the "racism" part of the story. It's not about racism. It's about cold blooded murder.

I'm glad you see the racist crap for what it is, just made up at this point, since the facts don't show racism played a part. And while I do lean towards this man going too far as a neighborhood watch with an itchy gun finger, we also really have nothing to back that up either.

[Wind Song]

If people would actually read the facts of this case, they would find that there is little racism involved. It's more about a guy who wanted desperately to be a hero. Someone who, as a member of a "neighborhood watch," had called 911 close to 50 times in the space of a year. A guy who called 911 to report a "suspicious person" walking in his gated neighborhood. When asked by the 911 dispatcher not to do anything further, he pursued an unarmed kid and shot him.
It is also an indictment of a flawed Florida law that states than anyone can claim "self defense" for any reason and use deadly force.
This isn't a story of black kid who was shot. It is the story of a KID who was shot. A 14 year old boy who was someone's son.
Perhaps that doesn't matter to you. After all, it wasn't your kid. Though it could have been.

Yes, it the story of a black kid who was shot. If the kid was white he wouldn't have appeared "suspicious looking". How can this guy claim "self-defense" when he aggressively chased the kid who was doing nothing wrong.

What was this idiot doing with a gun? How many "suspicious looking whites" had he called in to 911?

[Nukeman]

That's my opinion. You don't like it? Too bad.




I'm ignoring YOU, yes. You want to know what proof I have that this incident was racist. Perhaps, the guy whispering "fuckin coons" on the 911 tape is proof for some people, the ones who hear it clearly. Sirius XM radio talk host Joe Madison claims to have enhanced the publicly available 911 recording and posted it on his website (http://www.reddingnewsreview.com/newspages/2012newspages/joe_madison_uncovers_racial_slur_12_1000036.htm), which indeed does sound very similar to the alleged racial slur.

The Miami Herald (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html#storylink=cpy) wrote that neighbors interviewed said that "Zimmerman went door-to-door asking residents to be on the lookout, specifically referring to young black men who appeared to be outsiders, and warned that some were caught lurking.

What I know in my heart about this incident comes from a lifetime of experience and from talking to African American families, none of whom was surprised, but all were saddened by this killing. Think Emmett Till.Not at all what I asked YOU.. try again....

[jimnyc]

Yes, it the story of a black kid who was shot. If the kid was white he wouldn't have appeared "suspicious looking". How can this guy claim "self-defense" when he aggressively chased the kid who was doing nothing wrong.

What was this idiot doing with a gun? How many "suspicious looking whites" had he called in to 911?

Suspicious is suspicious - race plays no part. And maybe once he caught up with the kid, the kid turned and got aggressive with him. Even the eyewitness on 911 states they were fighting. It could have been the kid defending himself, or it could have been the other way around, maybe the kid lashed out for the guy following him.

STILL NO PROOF AT ALL THAT RACE PLAYED ANY PART AT ALL, other than your lame ASSumptions. The only "racist" I see thus far is you.

[Wind Song]

Not at all what I asked YOU.. try again....


No, I won't. I'm too busy to bother with your nit picking. I'm not in the slightest bit interested in knocking myself out to please you.

[jimnyc]

No, I won't. I'm too busy to bother with your nit picking.

Not too busy to post but too busy to post? LOL

[Wind Song]

Not too busy to post but too busy to post? LOL


that's right I'm packing, making lunches, and doing last minute stuff.0

[Wind Song]

What this incident highlights the most is the screwed up, "Stand Your Ground" law.

[DragonStryk72]

I would advise you to use quotes if you are referring to one of my posts. There are many stories out there now. The 911 tapes are available to listen to. If you're too lazy to bother then don't expect me to do your work for you.

Yesterday I was posting from an ancient laptop and it was too slow loading for me to do a lot of adding materials to my posts.

Today I'm very busy getting ready to leave for a trip.

You're very demanding and acting like a baby having a tantrum. Get over yourself. I thought this was a discussion board, not a courtroom. Meaning, I give my opinion, and I back my opinion with fact.

Fact is, this boy was killed for no reason. There are racial elements to the killing, and the other issue is the law in Florida which allowing people to kill others on no more than "suspicion" or "feeling threatened".

Like this? Yes, see I've done that, and posted reasonable points that can be easily responded to.

I have not thrown insults about, instead re-asserting my points, which you will not answer. So what's the excuse this time on why you won't actually respond? And no, I won't be re-posting them again, you can do your own reading, and remember, for sake of not being a hypocrite, use quotes.

If you are going to state there's clear racism, prove it.

Gabs is correct here, this is not about race, but you insist on making it so, and in doing so, you are diminishing the death of this boy.

[Wind Song]

Like this? Yes, see I've done that, and posted reasonable points that can be easily responded to.

I have not thrown insults about, instead re-asserting my points, which you will not answer. So what's the excuse this time on why you won't actually respond? And no, I won't be re-posting them again, you can do your own reading, and remember, for sake of not being a hypocrite, use quotes.

If you are going to state there's clear racism, prove it.

Gabs is correct here, this is not about race, but you insist on making it so, and in doing so, you are diminishing the death of this boy.


If this boy had been white he wouldn't have been killed.

[Nukeman]

What this incident highlights the most is the screwed up, "Stand Your Ground" law.How do you figure thats a screwed up law... Just because someone uses it in a incorrect manner doesnt make the law screwed up.

You should NOT have to run away from your activity due to some degenerate trying to rob or hurt you. YOU should be able to defend yourself. Or are you really telling me that the cops should be called for everything??

Always remember when seconds count the police are only minutes away..

[jimnyc]

Meaning, I give my opinion, and I back my opinion with fact.

If this is true, then why do you refuse to post the facts asked of you like 50x in this thread? Yes, we're all aware of your opinion on this killing, but when I ask you to backup your claims, you outright tell me you're not going to do my work for me? If what you posted yourself right here is true, shouldn't you be posting the facts to backup your assertion - that this killing was solely because this kid was black?

You tell me to do my own research, and then make a post stating you do backup your opinion with fact. Your posts in this thread make you a liar.

[Nukeman]

If this boy had been white he wouldn't have been killed.
you know that for a fact????????? REALLY.... You now read minds from 3000 miles away?? WOW you are special aren't you??

[Dilloduck]

Clearly it is WS's opinion that we all are too stupid to see the obvious racism that occured here.

[jimnyc]

If this boy had been white he wouldn't have been killed.

Emotionally unstable idiot. You're a good little liberal.

[Wind Song]

How do you figure thats a screwed up law... Just because someone uses it in a incorrect manner doesnt make the law screwed up.

You should NOT have to run away from your activity due to some degenerate trying to rob or hurt you. YOU should be able to defend yourself. Or are you really telling me that the cops should be called for everything??

Always remember when seconds count the police are only minutes away..


You want to turn back time to the Wild West? I don't.

[darin]

You want to turn back time to the Wild West? I don't.


That's a logical fallacy - that statement? Do you care?

And for the record


The Old West, with little or no government, was a generally peaceful place, not the violent frontier often depicted. There were probably fewer than a dozen bank robberies in the entire period from 1859 through 1900 in all the frontier West.

http://www.unpopulartruth.com/2009/04/myths-of-old-west.html

[DragonStryk72]

Yes, it the story of a black kid who was shot. If the kid was white he wouldn't have appeared "suspicious looking". How can this guy claim "self-defense" when he aggressively chased the kid who was doing nothing wrong.

What was this idiot doing with a gun? How many "suspicious looking whites" had he called in to 911?

You, and only you, are the one insisting that this has to be about race, but you provide no proof, no evidence of it. I am beginning to believe seriously that you are the most racist person here. Not one single person here is defending the actions taken by this man. Even Jim is only stating a possible scenario to show you how you don't know exactly what happened.

You were the one who posted the thread, stating it was "Black kid killed for being black", and that it was solely about his race.

You were the one who made the automatic assumption that Zimmerman was both white, and racist against blacks.

Have you ever even heard of variant viewpoints? As Gabs was nice enough to point out, this wasn't his first time, he'd called repeatedly to 911, and unless you're going to go with the "he just suddenly snapped for no reason" scenario, then he's called it in before.

Actually, it's not just cause the kid is black. Now, before I say this, a preface: The following does not excuse the horrible murder that Zimmerman committed. The kid was wearing a hoodie (see the clip from your own link), and while that is in no way justification, it is a possible way that he saw something suspicious. See, there's this trend here in the east in suburban middle to upper class neighborhoods, these sort of wannabe gangs called hoodrats. They're the sort of posers who would get chewed up an spit out in any real urban area, but they're oh so badass with their shoplifting and tagging.

Anyway, if the kid was wearing the "wrong" color hood, or if Zimmerman simply was too paranoid to realize that not every kid in a hoodie is a potential threat, that could explain the "reasoning" (in quotes because there's not rational reason for this sort of thing).

[LuvRPgrl]

http://bjlacosteblogs.wordpress.com/2012/03/17/17-year-old-black-kid-killed-for-no-reason/

And we say racism doesn't exist in America.

Maybe you say it, but not me or anyone I k now


You want to turn back time to the Wild West? I don't.
some parts of it, yea

[Little-Acorn]

Maybe you say it, but not me or anyone I k now

If little windysong couldn't complain and whine while making no helpful suggestions, she'd have nothing to say at all.

That would be terrible, wouldn't it. :D

[tailfins]

If this boy had been white he wouldn't have been killed.

Wow! What predictive powers you have! I guess insurance companies can fire all their actuaries and just contract you! :laugh:

[LuvRPgrl]

You want to turn back time to the Wild West? I don't.

If a black person shoots another black person, is that racist?

You do realize that most blacks who are murdered, are murdered by another black person?
You do realize that it is not uncommon for gun control laws to cause some people getting murdered because they were no longer allowed to carry a gun?

You do realize statistics show where gun control laws are inacted, violence increases?


A Texas woman carried a hand gun in her purse until legaslation no longer ;allowed it to be legal,
she was eating in a restaurant with her parents,
A man with a gun began randomly shooting customers, (gun control law didnt stop him from having one) and the woman and her parents hunkered down for safety;.
At one point, the shooter got in the line of site of this lady, she reached into her purse to pull her gun out, but her gun was no longer kept there, (she did obeyu the gun control law)'

The gunman continued to shoot and murder more people in a very calous and casual manner, knowing no body would have a gun to stop him, (thank you gun control laws)
and he strolled along and took his time to choose the next victim, and the next, and the next.

How can you not understand something as simple and obvious, when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.
Oh thats right, you dont think, you just feel.
'
?

[DragonStryk72]

If this boy had been white he wouldn't have been killed.

Ooh, another broad assertion without proof

[darin]

thread summary:

WindSong: The kid was killed because he's black!
15 different members: Silly assumption; where are the facts to back that up
WindSong: I don't need no stinking FACTS!

[gabosaurus]

If the shooter in this case had a known prejudice, it was against kids.
The national chairman of the Neighborhood Watch program has said that the shooter defied many of the group's rules, including being armed and taking action on his own.
I believe the shooter to be mentally deficient. I believe the same about anyone who feels the shooting was racial, or that the shooting was somehow justified.

[Noir]

Looking past all the race stuff and whatnot - Am i to understand that a man shot an unarmed minor dead, who was not on his property, and has not even been charged?

[tailfins]

Looking past all the race stuff and whatnot - Am i to understand that a man shot an unarmed minor dead, who was not on his property, and has not even been charged?

Welcome to Florida, home of the hanging chad and Casey Anthony.

[DragonStryk72]

Looking past all the race stuff and whatnot - Am i to understand that a man shot an unarmed minor dead, who was not on his property, and has not even been charged?

Actually, he was arrested, but the article isn't clear as to the current status. Generally, when you are charged, there's an arraignment hearing where bail gets set, although the prosecution can lobby for bail to be denied in the case of flight risks or if there is a belief that the criminal will commit more crimes. If you can make bail, either by paying it yourself, or taking out a bail bond, then the cops have to release you, it's not up to them.

[LuvRPgrl]

Actually, he was arrested, but the article isn't clear as to the current status. Generally, when you are charged, there's an arraignment hearing where bail gets set, although the prosecution can lobby for bail to be denied in the case of flight risks or if there is a belief that the criminal will commit more crimes. If you can make bail, either by paying it yourself, or taking out a bail bond, then the cops have to release you, it's not up to them.
cops released him without charging him

binforemation shows that he actually began following the kid and then shot ho whim
The shooter says he was scared, so why follow the guy? He is blatantly lying

also, the 911tapes show the operator told him to NOT go after the kid,
it appears a case of racism to me

[SassyLady]

According to shooter's dad, the shooter is not a racist.



Robert Zimmerman, George Zimmerman’s father, delivered a letter to the Orlando Sentinel (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,1716605.story)indicating that the depiction of his son in the media has been misleading.The letter says he was raised in a multiracial family and “would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever. The media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth.”

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/21/neighborhood-watch-leader-may-have-uttered-racial-slur-before-shooting/#ixzz1poc2ZFRg




Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.

That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.

"I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "

It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, a man in a red shirt — Zimmerman — who was on the ground.

The boy said he is not sure who called for help. After a moment, his dog escaped, and he turned to catch it and a few seconds later heard a gunshot, he said.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,1716605.story

[jimnyc]

cops released him without charging him

binforemation shows that he actually began following the kid and then shot ho whim
The shooter says he was scared, so why follow the guy? He is blatantly lying

also, the 911tapes show the operator told him to NOT go after the kid,
it appears a case of racism to me

He followed the kid
Shooter was scared
He was told not to follow kid

That means automatically it was a racist crime? :laugh2:

[tailfins]

cops released him without charging him

binforemation shows that he actually began following the kid and then shot ho whim
The shooter says he was scared, so why follow the guy? He is blatantly lying

also, the 911tapes show the operator told him to NOT go after the kid,
it appears a case of racism to me

I presume you haven't been around the cranky busybodies you find in places with a heavy presence of retirees. Think of terms of someone saying "I'm not racist, I'm abusive towards everybody." They infest homeowner's associations, neighborhood watches, bingo parlors, security guard jobs, etc., etc., etc. I would bet on the shooter not being a racist, but rather an equal opportunity a**hole.

[jimnyc]

Actually, he was arrested, but the article isn't clear as to the current status. Generally, when you are charged, there's an arraignment hearing where bail gets set, although the prosecution can lobby for bail to be denied in the case of flight risks or if there is a belief that the criminal will commit more crimes. If you can make bail, either by paying it yourself, or taking out a bail bond, then the cops have to release you, it's not up to them.

He was never arrested. Here is the latest:


Sanford city manager says they were barred from arresting Trayvon Martin’s killerThe city of Sanford, Florida has claimed that it did not arrest George Zimmerman despite his confession that he fatally shot Trayvon Martin because it was legally barred from doing so.

"Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense, which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony," Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. wrote in a letter released publicly Wednesday evening. "By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time."

The Sanford Police Department has received widespread criticism for its handling of the investigation. Among other issues, it didn't conduct a drug or alcohol test on Zimmerman, although that's standard practice in homicide probes, and a witness has said a police officer "corrected" her claim that she heard Martin yelling for help.

The letter goes on to address several other issues related to the case. Bonaparte Jr. writes that Zimmerman's failure to obey a 911 dispatcher's request that he not follow Martin can be taken into account in the ongoing investigation, but adds that the request "is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be required to follow."

Bonaparte Jr. appears to be saying that disobeying the order wasn't in itself a violation of law.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/sanford-city-manager-says-were-barred-arresting-trayvon-134007644.html

[LuvRPgrl]

He followed the kid
Shooter was scared
He was told not to follow kid

That means automatically it was a racist crime? :laugh2:NO


I presume you haven't been around the cranky busybodies you find in places with a heavy presence of retirees. Think of terms of someone saying "I'm not racist, I'm abusive towards everybody." They infest homeowner's associations, neighborhood watches, bingo parlors, security guard jobs, etc., etc., etc. I would bet on the shooter not being a racist, but rather an equal opportunity a**hole.

right now, doesnt seem like there is much, if any evidence it was racism,
and personally, as far as legalities go, I couldnt care less,
BUT my gut tells me he was a racist,,,,and my gut is very rarely wrong, except when I eat filipino food

[jimnyc]

NO



right now, doesnt seem like there is much, if any evidence it was racism,
and personally, as far as legalities go, I couldnt care less,
BUT my gut tells me he was a racist,,,,and my gut is very rarely wrong, except when I eat filipino food

Well then, that settles it, since your gut tells you it's racist, regardless of any evidence/proof, he should be hung for his blatant racism. :lol:

[DragonStryk72]

He was never arrested. Here is the latest:



http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/sanford-city-manager-says-were-barred-arresting-trayvon-134007644.html

Oh wow, yeah, looks like the cops did a bit of ball dropping there, too. Sigh, this is gonna on those sorts of cases where it's gonna complete a complete cluster fuck, isn't it?

[jimnyc]

Oh wow, yeah, looks like the cops did a bit of ball dropping there, too. Sigh, this is gonna on those sorts of cases where it's gonna complete a complete cluster fuck, isn't it?

Yep, and it wouldn't surprise me if there were riots over it! Well, there would be if this were NY.

I don't think it was a racist crime, but I also don't think this guy acted appropriately. Even if self defense, with the kid unarmed, was it necessary to shoot him? This guy even sounds like a nutjob in the audio. I think, that he thought for a few minutes that he was Charles Bronson.

[DragonStryk72]

Yep, and it wouldn't surprise me if there were riots over it! Well, there would be if this were NY.

I don't think it was a racist crime, but I also don't think this guy acted appropriately. Even if self defense, with the kid unarmed, was it necessary to shoot him? This guy even sounds like a nutjob in the audio. I think, that he thought for a few minutes that he was Charles Bronson.

See, that's what's getting me, is everyone focusing so much on the race aspect. If there is something made clear, it's that Zimmerman was insane, regardless of race. No sane, rational person would have taken the leaps of logic he took to the point of shooting Martin in cold blood.

In NY, though, we have laws as to how you can defend yourself, but I don't think the laws would have really prevented anything. Once someone gets to that "I gonna hunt him down like a dog" point, the legalities of it really aren't a thing.

[jimnyc]

Another update... Looks like the police chief in this case is stepping down, at least temporarily thus far...


Police chief in Trayvon Martin case to step downSanford, Fla., Police Chief Bill Lee is "temporarily" resigning amid widespread criticism of his department's handling of the Trayvon Martin case, he announced moments ago.

"My role as the leader of this agency has become a distraction for this organization," Lee said at a press conference Thursday afternoon. "It is apparent that my involvement in this matter is overshadowing the process. I have come to the decision that I must temporarily remove myself from the position of police chief of the city of Sanford."

Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. said in a letter released Wednesday evening that police were "prohibited" from arresting George Zimmerman, who had confessed to shooting Martin, "based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time." Zimmerman told local police he acted in self-defense.

Sanford police have been criticized for not conducting an alcohol or drug test on Zimmerman, as is standard practice in a homicide probe, among other alleged missteps. And a witness has said that a law enforcement officer "corrected" her when she said she heard Martin screaming for help. Lee had emerged as a focal point of the criticism.

Zimmerman, a white Hispanic, was patrolling the streets of a gated community in Sanford on Feb. 26, when he spotted Martin and told a police dispatcher that a "black male" was acting "suspicious." Zimmerman, 28, ignored a warning from the dispatcher not to pursue Martin, and a violent confrontation ensued, leaving Martin dead.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/police-chief-trayvon-martin-case-step-down-194855481.html

[Gator Monroe]

Violent Confrontation ? Brother Broke Zimmermans nose :link:?? (My Baby D'int do nuffin)

[darin]

What the hell? A 'white Hispanic'?

F'ing Yahoo stirring the pot.

[Gator Monroe]

Media is not showing any pics of the kid newer than his 15th Birfday ???:clap:

[Wind Song]

You, and only you, are the one insisting that this has to be about race, but you provide no proof, no evidence of it. I am beginning to believe seriously that you are the most racist person here. Not one single person here is defending the actions taken by this man. Even Jim is only stating a possible scenario to show you how you don't know exactly what happened.

You were the one who posted the thread, stating it was "Black kid killed for being black", and that it was solely about his race.

You were the one who made the automatic assumption that Zimmerman was both white, and racist against blacks.

Have you ever even heard of variant viewpoints? As Gabs was nice enough to point out, this wasn't his first time, he'd called repeatedly to 911, and unless you're going to go with the "he just suddenly snapped for no reason" scenario, then he's called it in before.

Actually, it's not just cause the kid is black. Now, before I say this, a preface: The following does not excuse the horrible murder that Zimmerman committed. The kid was wearing a hoodie (see the clip from your own link), and while that is in no way justification, it is a possible way that he saw something suspicious. See, there's this trend here in the east in suburban middle to upper class neighborhoods, these sort of wannabe gangs called hoodrats. They're the sort of posers who would get chewed up an spit out in any real urban area, but they're oh so badass with their shoplifting and tagging.

Anyway, if the kid was wearing the "wrong" color hood, or if Zimmerman simply was too paranoid to realize that not every kid in a hoodie is a potential threat, that could explain the "reasoning" (in quotes because there's not rational reason for this sort of thing).
If the kid was white he wouldn't have been killed.

[SassyLady]

If the kid was white he wouldn't have been killed.

:deadhorse:

[SassyLady]

I agree with Rep. Allen West's opinion on this.



I have sat back and allowed myself time to assess the current episode revealing itself in Sanford, Florida involving the shooting of 17-year-old Treyvon Martin. First of all, if all that has been reported is accurate, the Sanford Police Chief should be relieved of his duties due to what appears to be a mishandling of this shooting in its early stages. The US Navy SEALS identified Osama Bin Laden within hours, while this young man laid on a morgue slab for three days. The shooter, Mr Zimmerman, should have been held in custody and certainly should not be walking free, still having a concealed weapons carry permit. From my reading, it seems this young man was pursued and there was no probable cause to engage him, certainly not pursue and shoot him….against the direction of the 911 responder. Let’s all be appalled at this instance not because of race, but because a young American man has lost his life, seemingly, for no reason. I have signed a letter supporting a DOJ investigation. I am not heading to Sanford to shout and scream, because we need the responsible entities and agencies to handle this situation from this point without media bias or undue political influences. This is an outrage.


https://www.facebook.com/notes/congressman-allen-west/i-have-sat-back-and-allowed-myself-time-to-assess-the-current-episode-revealing-/320362644683436

[darin]

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf


Police report.

Note: Seems Zimmerman was on his back and presented w/ damage to the face area. What will happen if:

a) Turns out this young man charged Zimmerman, and initiated fisticuffs?
People will STILL say it's zimmerman's fault for following the young man. They'll say the young man had A RIGHT to be walking around like he was, while ignoring Zimmerman's right to walk around or even follow somebody.

b) Grand Jury does NOT indict Zimmerman?

[DragonStryk72]

If the kid was white he wouldn't have been killed.

Okay, so this is your argument "LALALA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

Prove it, or admit you're wrong and back down. These sorts of childish reassertions of the same baseless point are just that, childish. Either enter the debate, or leave it.

[LuvRPgrl]

Well then, that settles it, since your gut tells you it's racist, regardless of any evidence/proof, he should be hung for his blatant racism.


Which ;is not what I said.
Why do you do that?
q


I agree with Rep. Allen West's opinion on this.
Based on a history of racism by the police dept, it is quite likely they didnt pursue with vigor, this case because the kid is black, and the shooter isnt.
Imagine this was your kid, or friend, brother, what would you do?
WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?

I can pretty much guarantee you if it was a white woman who was killed by a black dude, he would be in prison and charged already


http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf (http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf)


Police report.

Note: Seems Zimmerman was on his back and presented w/ damage to the face area. What will happen if:

a) Turns out this young man charged Zimmerman, and initiated fisticuffs?
People will STILL say it's zimmerman's fault for following the young man. They'll say the young man had A RIGHT to be walking around like he was, while ignoring Zimmerman's right to walk around or even follow somebody.

b) Grand Jury does NOT indict Zimmerman?

More video/tape shows someone screaming for help before the shot was fired.
They will probably be able to determine who was screaming

Do you think a guy with a gun who knows how to use it, would follow some kid and then start screaming bloody murder for help if he felt endangered,,, give me a break
tapes are starting to prove holes in zimmerracistman's story

[darin]

How will sounds of Zimmerman, who is NOT white, screaming, the blood on his head, and the wet/grass on his back poke holes in Zimmerman's story?

[jimnyc]

Which ;is not what I said.

You claimed it to be a racist shooting, based on your gut feeling. That's dumb. Try looking at the facts and you'll see that NOTHING supports this being a case of racism - NOTHING, other than assumptions that this may be the case.

[MtnBiker]

This case is a tragedy, especially because a person of one race killed a person of another race. How often does Sharpton, Farrakkan or Obama comment on tragic deaths when is it a black person killing another black person?

[gabosaurus]

This is NOT about racism. It's about a paranoid vigilante adult gunning down an unarmed kid.
Read the entire story. Don't just pick out the parts that appeal to you.

[DragonStryk72]

How will sounds of Zimmerman, who is NOT white, screaming, the blood on his head, and the wet/grass on his back poke holes in Zimmerman's story?

Honestly, he was clearly hunting the kid while armed, so it doesn't exactly look great on him. He directly ignored the 911 operator who told him not to pursue, and you could hear it in his whole tone, he was ready to start some shit. Getting your ass kicked in a hand to hand fight that you started isn't sufficient reason to shoot someone.

[MtnBiker]

This is NOT about racism. It's about a paranoid vigilante adult gunning down an unarmed kid.
Read the entire story. Don't just pick out the parts that appeal to you.

You may be right about the incident, you may be wrong. The part of the story I am referring to is the attention this story is getting. Unfortunately there are many black youth deaths in this country. Why are Sharpton, Farrakkan and the president giving this death attention?

[DragonStryk72]

You may be right about the incident, you may be wrong. The part of the story I am referring to is the attention this story is getting. Unfortunately there are many black youth deaths in this country. Why are Sharpton, Farrakkan and the president giving this death attention?

Because of a couple of facts in the case:

1. Because it grabbed headlines.

2. It's sort of a cluster fuck on the investigation end, with clear mistakes made by the cops all around.

3. Like WS, they saw Zimmerman's name and, that was as far as they followed it, seeing a "white" man killing a black kid.

[darin]

Honestly, he was clearly hunting the kid while armed, so it doesn't exactly look great on him. He directly ignored the 911 operator who told him not to pursue, and you could hear it in his whole tone, he was ready to start some shit. Getting your ass kicked in a hand to hand fight that you started isn't sufficient reason to shoot someone.

Hunting? You've decided already.

I saw this on another board, and I think the guy hit the nail on the head




Here's the reported information we know:
-Zimmerman had a right to be there
-Martin had a right to be there
-Zimmerman followed Martin
-Zimmerman claims self defense and that he was attacked on the way back to his vehicle
-a girl claims to be on the phone with Martin and hears intial verbal confrontation
-Zimmerman reportedly had injuries to the front and back of his head
-Zimmerman's back was wet
- a man claims to have witnessed Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him with Zimmerman calling out for help, hears a shot then sees Martin on the ground
-a woman claims to have heard crying, she assumes it is Martin because it stops after the shot. She and her roommate come outside after the shot, confront Zimmerman, and he instructs them to call the police. They judge his action after the fact as not self-defense

-media attacks stand your ground
-most media leaves out fact of a witness corroborating at least part of Zimmerman's claim
-some media leaves out Zimmerman's injuries

-family first say they just want arrest
-family and crowds now say they won't be happy unless there is a conviction
-many in crowds are convinced this was a racially motivated hate crime

______________________________
We don't know:
-who struck the first blow
-if Zimmerman was attacked from behind

------------------------
My opinions:
With a wound to the back of the head and the only known fight taking place on grass, Zimmermans story of being struck from behind seems plausible. The witness stating the least facts but making the most assumptions is getting a disproportionately large amount of air time. Only one news station has reported the corroborating witness. So yes I see bias in the media reporting this. The vast majority of the media is anti-gun. This incident gives them opportunity to attack legislation that. Is unpopular among those who are anti-gun. The more egregious this incident is portrayed, the more reasonable their position is in questioning gun and self defense rights.

Zimmerman shouldn't have gotten out of his vehicle, but that doesn't make him guilty. It does make him stupid. Zimmerman can ask Martin whatever he wanted and Martin had every right to tell him to go to hell. No verbal exchange gives either the right to escalate to physical contact.

If Martin had Zimmerman pinned, even were there a duty to retreat, he could not have. This seems to make the stand your ground attacks pointless. Perhaps that is why there is selective reporting. Or 99% of the media outlets could be incompetent/lazy. Who knows.

Even if Zimmerman attacked him first, if he then ended the attack and was leaving that by all measures of self defense I've read and been taught would reset who is the aggressor. That situation is still a stretch as there is no information on who the initial aggressor was.

Based on the information so far it seems self defense was justified.

[darin]

Moved to proper forum; was not a 'political discussion'

[DragonStryk72]

Hunting? You've decided already.

I saw this on another board, and I think the guy hit the nail on the head

So, your posit is that zimmerman, after he himself hung up on the 911 operator who told him not to follow the kid, he followed the kid, and somehow the kid attacked him from behind? You often get attacked from behind by deer that you're following behind? See, this is the problem, is that the 911 call shows that Zimmerman was on the offensive already, before he ever caught up with Martin, and he didn't seem like he was looking for any sort of actual evidence. If he made any attempt to grab at him, then that's enough for Martin to claim defense himself.

He could just as easily have incurred the head wound after the start of the fight, either from hitting the ground, or if they got to a wrestling stage where he got turned around and hit. Sure him getting hit from behind is plausible, but so are both other options I named.

But bottom line, this was a hand to hand fight, the gun had no place in it. And Martin pleading sort of states that the "heat of moment" idea is out. In the heat of the moment, there's just no time for pleading.

[SassyLady]

Geraldo Rivera's take on the situation:


Geraldo Rivera blamed a hoodie for the shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, telling the hosts of “Fox and Friends” that that particular item of clothing is as responsible for Martin’s death as the shooter.
Martin, who was gunned down in Sanford, Fla., by Neighborhood Watch member George Zimmerman, has become a national story over the past few days, prompting a “Million Hoodie March” in New York.
While official blame has been placed on both the police’s handling of the case and Zimmerman -- Martin was armed with little more than Skittles -- leave it to Rivera to come up with another theory.
The hoodie, he argued, is universally identified with crime, particularly robberies of local convenience stores like a 7-Eleven.
“I am urging the parents of Black and Latino youngsters, particularly, to not let their children go out wearing hoodies,” Rivera said.
In case you were wondering, it took less than a minute to find photos of New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick, hotel heiress Paris Hilton and teen superstar Selena Gomez in hoodies.
Yet Rivera insists: "You cannot rehabilitate the hoodie!"
"I understand that the reaction might be overzealous or even irrational at some extent," he said. "But you’re not going to rehabilitate the hoodie.”
The "reaction" in that case was the shooting.
Rivera's comments prompted immediate shock both on Twitter and in the press (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple).
Watch below as Rivera make his case for the hoodie.

http://www.thewrap.com/media/column-post/geraldo-rivera-blames-hoodie-trayvon-martin-shooting-video-36494

[jimnyc]

If the kid was white he wouldn't have been killed.

If this kid didn't attack the man with a gun he wouldn't have been shot.

[Wind Song]

Yeah, the killer was a former altar boy. I guess that excuses him.:laugh2:


According to the Orlando Sentinel and other news organizations, he was twice accused (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-20/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-20120320_1_robert-zimmerman-domestic-violence-online-petition) in 2005 of either criminal misconduct or violence. He was licensed to carry a concealed firearm, and had a black Kel-Tec semiautomatic handgun the night he shot Martin. Martin was found with only a can of Arizona Iced Tea and a bag of skittles. Last time I checked, no one's ever been killed by a beverage or a bag of candy.

Wendy Dorival is Sanford's volunteer coordinator for the Police Department. She helped train Zimmerman. She stated (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/us/trayvon-martin-death-spotlights-neighborhood-watch-groups.html) that those involved in neighborhood-watch programs are supposed to be "the eyes and ears" for the police, "not a vigilante." Specifically, she said, members "are not supposed to confront anyone. We get paid to get into harm's way. You don't do that. You just call them from the safety of your home or your vehicle." She added that carrying and using a gun on patrol violates protocols.


Furthermore, the National Sheriffs' Association, which sponsors the neighborhood-watch program nationwide, is 100% clear (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/us/trayvon-martin-death-spotlights-neighborhood-watch-groups.html?pagewanted=2&hpw) in its manual on this point as well: "Patrol members do not carry weapons," have no police power, and should "not attempt to apprehend a person committing a crime or to investigate a suspicious activity." Lastly, not following the guidelines can result in serious consequences: "Each member is liable as an individual for civil and criminal charges should he exceed his authority."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/23/john-goodman-guilty-dui-manslaughter_n_1375810.html

[cadet]

Yeah, the killer was a former altar boy. I guess that excuses him.:laugh2:


According to the Orlando Sentinel and other news organizations, he was twice accused (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-20/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-20120320_1_robert-zimmerman-domestic-violence-online-petition) in 2005 of either criminal misconduct or violence. He was licensed to carry a concealed firearm, and had a black Kel-Tec semiautomatic handgun the night he shot Martin. Martin was found with only a can of Arizona Iced Tea and a bag of skittles. Last time I checked, no one's ever been killed by a beverage or a bag of candy.

Wendy Dorival is Sanford's volunteer coordinator for the Police Department. She helped train Zimmerman. She stated (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/us/trayvon-martin-death-spotlights-neighborhood-watch-groups.html) that those involved in neighborhood-watch programs are supposed to be "the eyes and ears" for the police, "not a vigilante." Specifically, she said, members "are not supposed to confront anyone. We get paid to get into harm's way. You don't do that. You just call them from the safety of your home or your vehicle." She added that carrying and using a gun on patrol violates protocols.


Furthermore, the National Sheriffs' Association, which sponsors the neighborhood-watch program nationwide, is 100% clear (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/us/trayvon-martin-death-spotlights-neighborhood-watch-groups.html?pagewanted=2&hpw) in its manual on this point as well: "Patrol members do not carry weapons," have no police power, and should "not attempt to apprehend a person committing a crime or to investigate a suspicious activity." Lastly, not following the guidelines can result in serious consequences: "Each member is liable as an individual for civil and criminal charges should he exceed his authority."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/23/john-goodman-guilty-dui-manslaughter_n_1375810.html

I think i just read that it wasn't about racism. You just proved yourself wrong.

[Wind Song]

I think i just read that it wasn't about racism. You just proved yourself wrong.

There is more than one issue in this incident. One is racism and the other is that Zimmerman had no business shooting anyone under the circumstances.

"If he had been white, he would not have been stopped. He would have not been approached at all," said Tracy Martin, the victim's father.

A police report describes Zimmerman as white; his family says he is Hispanic.

"Had Trayvon been a white kid ... Zimmerman would have been arrested," Martin said.

"A black person in a hoodie isn't automatically suspicious."

Zimmerman took Florida's "stand your ground" law too far by chasing after the teen.

[darin]

So, your posit is that zimmerman, after he himself hung up on the 911 operator who told him not to follow the kid, he followed the kid, and somehow the kid attacked him from behind? You often get attacked from behind by deer that you're following behind? See, this is the problem, is that the 911 call shows that Zimmerman was on the offensive already, before he ever caught up with Martin, and he didn't seem like he was looking for any sort of actual evidence. If he made any attempt to grab at him, then that's enough for Martin to claim defense himself.

He could just as easily have incurred the head wound after the start of the fight, either from hitting the ground, or if they got to a wrestling stage where he got turned around and hit. Sure him getting hit from behind is plausible, but so are both other options I named.

But bottom line, this was a hand to hand fight, the gun had no place in it. And Martin pleading sort of states that the "heat of moment" idea is out. In the heat of the moment, there's just no time for pleading.

You're wildly speculating the events. Take it based on what we 'know' to be fact. Those things in my last reply. That sums it up for me TO THIS POINT. Based on what we KNOW - not speculation, logical fallacy, emotion, etc, it seems justified but sad.

[jimnyc]

There is more than one issue in this incident. One is racism and the other is that Zimmerman had no business shooting anyone under the circumstances.

"If he had been white, he would not have been stopped. He would have not been approached at all," said Tracy Martin, the victim's father.

A police report describes Zimmerman as white; his family says he is Hispanic.

"Had Trayvon been a white kid ... Zimmerman would have been arrested," Martin said.

"A black person in a hoodie isn't automatically suspicious."

And if this kid didn't attack Zimmerman he wouldn't have been shot.

[Wind Song]

And if this kid didn't attack Zimmerman he wouldn't have been shot.

What did he attack Zimmerman with? The skittles or the ice tea? Let's be clear on the facts. Zimmerman left his car and chased after Martin after being advised to not follow him.

Zimmerman shot the kid after referring to him as a "f*cking coon".

[jimnyc]

What did he attack Zimmerman with? The skittles or the ice tea?

I think he beat on him with both his fists and his legs.

[Gator Monroe]

This is a False Flag opertunity for the left .

[jimnyc]

This kid shouldn't have attacked the "spic" and he wouldn't have been shot.

[Wind Song]

This kid shouldn't have attacked the "spic" and he wouldn't have been shot.

The boy was followed by Zimmerman, armed with a gun. Zimmerman confronted him and shot him to death.

[Wind Song]

I think he beat on him with both his fists and his legs.

You think? Where you there? Bottom line kid walking home from store, unarmed is chased and attacked by armed nutjob who has been advised by LE to leave the kid alone.

[jimnyc]

The boy was followed by Zimmerman, armed with a gun. Zimmerman confronted him and shot him to death.

Not what I read or heard. Seems to me like the kid attacked this man for being a "spic" and then got shot for his efforts.

[jimnyc]

You think? Where you there?

That's what the eyewitness stated and was overheard on the 911 tapes, which are in total abotu 30 mins long.

[Gator Monroe]

The boy was followed by Zimmerman, armed with a gun. Zimmerman confronted him and shot him to death.
If "the Kid" Knocked Zimmerman ( The wannabee Mestizo) to the Ground and attempted to Curb Stomp him (Injuring his Nose & Face in process) then I can perhas see a little hastyness with the overwhelming force self defense .

[Trigg]

For a truely loved, respected and completely innocent 17 year old his family sure didn't seem to miss him after his death.

It took them 3 days to claim the body. Why didn't his family report him missing (after a shooting in the neighborhood) for 3 days?????????


The Martin family also criticized the Sanford police department for failing to identify their son more quickly. Martin's body was left in the morgue for three days, classified as a "John Doe." The family charges that officers didn't bother to ask neighbors if they recognized Martin, who had been staying with his father in the neighborhood.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-chief-trayvon-martin-case-resigns-temporarily-amid/story?id=15977847

News reports also show the "gated community", most would associate that description with an upscale neighborhood, which I'm sure is what the media is going for especially since they're trying to portray the shooter as white (which he clearly isn't). It was a gated apartment complex, hardly upscale.

[gabosaurus]

Not what I read or heard. Seems to me like the kid attacked this man for being a "spic" and then got shot for his efforts.

Where did you get this ridiculous idea? It's not in any of the official reports.
Some of you just enjoy the idea that a black kid was shot and killed.

[Missileman]

Where did you get this ridiculous idea? It's not in any of the official reports.
Some of you just enjoy the idea that a black kid was shot and killed.


Based on the available info, Jim's scenario is as plausible as Zimmerman attacking the kid for being black.

[logroller]

Do you enjoy trashing out hispanic people before you know their side of the story ? Sounds like a little racism to me.
Wait for it...

Based on the available info, Jim's scenario is as plausible as Zimmerman attacking the kid for being black.

Not really; spics carry knives, not guns.:laugh2:

[jimnyc]

Where did you get this ridiculous idea? It's not in any of the official reports.
Some of you just enjoy the idea that a black kid was shot and killed.

And neither is a damn thing in there about this guy shooting the kid solely because he was black, or anything at all to do with race.

Looking at the whole story with Wing Nut's glasses on, and being able to make up my mind based on my own feelings, and not the facts, this is how I would see it.


Based on the available info, Jim's scenario is as plausible as Zimmerman attacking the kid for being black.

Yep, that's about it. If others can simply claim this is a racist crime, based on THEIR OWN perceptions, then surely I can do the same. :)

[gabosaurus]

To some people, perceptions are preferable to the facts. Because you get to reach the conclusion that you prefer, regardless of what really happened.

[jimnyc]

To some people, perceptions are preferable to the facts. Because you get to reach the conclusion that you prefer, regardless of what really happened.

People that ignore the facts and make shit up that isn't there, I call them Wing Nuts. Or Truthmatters reincarnated.

[LuvRPgrl]

How will sounds of Zimmerman, who is NOT white, screaming, the blood on his head, and the wet/grass on his back poke holes in Zimmerman's story?

actually he is white, his father is, his mother is peruvian, which is a mixture of Indian and Spanish, and spanish is a caucasion race, making him 3/4 white.

when various tapes and videos are played simultaneously, it pokes holes in his story.

if the screams are of the black kid, then clearly the kid wasnt intimidating zimmerman, who, by the way, was going after trayvon, while zimmerman claimed trayvon was coming towards him and thats part of the reason he, zimm, was scared.
How can a man with a gun be in fear for his life by an unarmed smaller teen?


If this kid didn't attack the man with a gun he wouldn't have been shot.

If zimm was following trayvon, then maybe trayvon turned and attacked out of fear.

Bottom line is, zimm was creating the problem, tray was leaving, zimm continued to make it a confrontation, THAT YOU CANNOT DENY;, and that point is big in law,
for example, if a person runs a red light and a blue ford is hit by the red chevy running the light, if the blue ford could have avoided the accident even after the red car ran the light, then it is obligated to do so, and if it doesnt, it is now at least partially responsable for the accident How much is a case by case basis.

I JUST DONT KNOW HOW SOMEONE TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM YOU CAN BE POSING A THREAT TO YOU.
WHY DID ZIMM EVEN GET OUT OF HIS TRUCK?


You claimed it to be a racist shooting, based on your gut feeling. That's dumb. Try looking at the facts and you'll see that NOTHING supports this being a case of racism - NOTHING, other than assumptions that this may be the case.,
I can tell you, without even hav ing to look back at my posts in this thread, that I never 'CLAIMED" it was racist, I said
something along the line of my opinion,or I think....., it probably will be shown that,,,,its like a prediction or opinion only, NOgot it?
I AM NOT AND HAVE NOT CLAIMED IT WAS RACIST.


This is NOT about racism. It's about a paranoid vigilante adult gunning down an unarmed kid.
Read the entire story. Don't just pick out the parts that appeal to you.

ONLY if there is money in it for them:laugh:


So, your posit is that zimmerman, after he himself hung up on the 911 operator who told him not to follow the kid, he followed the kid, and somehow the kid attacked him from behind? You often get attacked from behind by deer that you're following behind? See, this is the problem, is that the 911 call shows that Zimmerman was on the offensive already, before he ever caught up with Martin, and he didn't seem like he was looking for any sort of actual evidence. If he made any attempt to grab at him, then that's enough for Martin to claim defense himself.

He could just as easily have incurred the head wound after the start of the fight, either from hitting the ground, or if they got to a wrestling stage where he got turned around and hit. Sure him getting hit from behind is plausible, but so are both other options I named.

But bottom line, this was a hand to hand fight, the gun had no place in it. And Martin pleading sort of states that the "heat of moment" idea is out. In the heat of the moment, there's just no time for pleading.

not to mention, almost anyone there, other than those who specifically know trayvon, will be supporting zimm, and their statements are questionable at best.


All pro racism posters are screaming for evidence,is are there any pics of zimm's wound?
could he have self inflicted it.
how could trayvon have inflicted it without a weapon?

[darin]

LuvRPgrl - I hope I never hear you use homophobe in a post. I hope you never accuse anyone against ANYTHING w/ the homosexual agenda as 'homophobic' - because you are DOING that same thing RIGHT NOW.

You're saying "folks who want EVIDENCE before thinking it's a race-based shooting are/must be RACISTS!"

Very disappointing.

And fwiw, your arguments are terrible in this case. It's like your turned-on by the thought the kid was shot "because he's black". The dude is as white as Obama. You're making stuff up about the guy's 'race' in an effort to insult him. You're concluding it can ONLY be racism IF Zimmerman is white.

[LuvRPgrl]

I think he beat on him with both his fists and his legs."

THINK?? As DMP said, "just the facts maam"

[LuvRPgrl]

If "the Kid" Knocked Zimmerman ( The wannabee Mestizo) to the Ground and attempted to Curb Stomp him (Injuring his Nose & Face in process) then I can perhas see a little hastyness with the overwhelming force self defense .

IF??
Just the facts maam,

while those who think it may have been racism are being accused of not sticking to the evidence, while those who are denying its racism, are using assumptions

[jimnyc]

Have these videotapes been linked to in this thread yet? I'd like to see them, as the audio doesn't even come close to making this a racist/racial thing in the slightest.

[LuvRPgrl]

LuvRPgrl - I hope I never hear you use homophobe in a post. I hope you never accuse anyone against ANYTHING w/ the thomosexual agenda as 'homophobic' - because you are DOING that same thing RIGHT NOW.

You're saying "folks who want EVIDENCE before thinking it's a race-based shooting are/must be RACISTS!"

Very disappointing.

And fwiw, your arguments are terrible in this case. It's like your turned-on by the thought the kid was shot "because he's black". The dude is as white as Obama. You're making stuff up about the guy's 'race' in an effort to insult him. You're concluding it can ONLY be racism IF Zimmerman is white.






CI
SORRY DMP, but you are simply wrong in your assesment of me and my posts.
PLEASE READ CAREFULLY, at no time did I think, or claim it WAS RACIST, I never made any such claim.

calling some here "pro racists" was a bit tongue in cheek, but some do appear to bending over backwards to try and make it look like it wasnt racist, nor zimms fault. In fact, they are guilty of the very thing they are claiming others of being guilty for/

I didnt make anything up, please copy and paste anything I made up.
He looks very white to me, and sounded white in the 911 tapes.

AND I HAVE MADE NO CONCLUSION YET, NONE, ZIP ZERO, ZILCH,
pointing out that some who are claiming it isnt racist, WITHOUT AP all the info in yet is wrong, IS NOT THE SAME AS CALLING IT RACIST.
I think there is a good chance it will turn out to be racism, but havent made any, none,zilch, zip, conclusion.

Also, it appears, APPEARS, APPEARS APPEARS, APPEARS THE POLICE may have been influenced by race

oh, and I never use the term homophobic

[jimnyc]

How can a man with a gun be in fear for his life by an unarmed smaller teen?

One can EASILY be in fear, as far as in a fear for their life, before they are pushed to fight back or use a weapon. I just watched another video from another story just a few moments ago. 2 drivers, and one was so scared of the other that he drove to the police station rather than confronting the other driver. Once there, the 2nd driver tried to box him in, then jumped out and went after the guy trying to get away. Once he knew he had no choice, he shot the guy dead on the spot. So yeah, I can easily see someone even running from an unarmed person because they're scared, and then using a weapon when they had no choice.

[LuvRPgrl]

One can EASILY be in fear, as far as in a fear for their life, before they are pushed to fight back or use a weapon. I just watched another video from another story just a few moments ago. 2 drivers, and one was so scared of the other that he drove to the police station rather than confronting the other driver. Once there, the 2nd driver tried to box him in, then jumped out and went after the guy trying to get away. Once he knew he had no choice, he shot the guy dead on the spot. So yeah, I can easily see someone even running from an unarmed person because they're scared, and then using a weapon when they had no choice.

your example there shows both parties are armed with a weapon, a 4,000 pound lethal vehicle, of course I would be scared, gun or no gun.
zimmerman didnt sound one bit scared on the 911 tape, not even close, just MY OPINION, I also think he is a liar

[jimnyc]

your example there shows both parties are armed with a weapon, a 4,000 pound lethal vehicle, of course I would be scared, gun or no gun.
zimmerman didnt sound one bit scared on the 911 tape, not even close, just MY OPINION, I also think he is a liar

They were both long out of their vehicles when the guy shot the other. My point is, people won't immediately go to their gun as a way out when faced with danger/fear. Some people will avoid using it at all costs. It's POSSIBLE that he confronted the kid, the kid copped an attitude and decided to make matters worse. Zimmerman decides to bail, but now kid keeps confronting him and goes after him. Fight ensues and Z shoots the kid.

I have no more to go on with that scenario than those who think it was racially motivated, or those that think he is just nuts.

[LuvRPgrl]

They were both long out of their vehicles when the guy shot the other. My point is, people won't immediately go to their gun as a way out when faced with danger/fear. Some people will avoid using it at all costs. It's POSSIBLE that he confronted the kid, the kid copped an attitude and decided to make matters worse. Zimmerman decides to bail, but now kid keeps confronting him and goes after him. Fight ensues and Z shoots the kid.

I have no more to go on with that scenario than those who think it was racially motivated, or those that think he is just nuts.

not looking good for zimmerman, who allegedly called martin a fucking coon,
and this, apparently the cops corrected one eye witness'es testimony in favor of zimmerman

17 year old 140 pound kid put a 26 year old 240 pound man on the ground???? get real

[jimnyc]

not looking good for zimmerman, who allegedly called martin a fucking coon,
and this, apparently the cops corrected one eye witness'es testimony in favor of zimmerman

17 year old 140 pound kid put a 26 year old 240 pound man on the ground???? get real

I've listened to this like 50x times now, and if I "WANT" to hear that, I can almost see it. But I honestly don't hear the coon comment. Here is enhanced audio of that moment he is being accused of stating it:

http://media25.podbean.com/pb/bce9264d27b079b6d709d2c8a5a46ae6/4f6d23f2/blogs25/356773/uploads/GEORGEZIMMERMAN-911TAPE.mp3

[jimnyc]

17 year old 140 pound kid put a 26 year old 240 pound man on the ground???? get real

I went to HS with a kid who wore glasses and was about 150lbs, and was about that size for quite a few years after graduation. You'd be hard pressed to find many 240 pounders that could keep up with this kid. He was a golden gloves boxer and highly trained ina taekwondo. Size doesn't always matter. Especially if the 240lb guy is a wuss and has no clue how to fight or protect himself.

[Mr. P]

From what I've heard, I think Zimmerman will be indicted for second degree murder early next month.
From what I gather, he should be.

[LuvRPgrl]

I went to HS with a kid who wore glasses and was about 150lbs, and was about that size for quite a few years after graduation. You'd be hard pressed to find many 240 pounders that could keep up with this kid. He was a golden gloves boxer and highly trained ina taekwondo. Size doesn't always matter. Especially if the 240lb guy is a wuss and has no clue how to fight or protect himself.\\

I cant hear the coon comment either, I was just repeating something someone else in the media claimed. I am presuming at this point, he didnt say it.

as for your example, it is one in a million and does not reflect on this situation at all, and doesnt account for zimm not showing one ounce of fear in his voice at any time

[logroller]

Hey so what does one's race have to do with being racist, really?

Say there's a white guy who hangs around with black guys, colloquially, a wigger. Derided by members of his own race for hanging out with blacks, (eg, calling him a wigger :laugh:), he attacks another white person. Wouldn't that be a racially motivated, white on white crime?
Say there's a serial rapist, a white guy, who only rapes white women-- wouldn't that be racist? If he only raped black women, would that be racist? maybe its just his preference, but its a racial preference.

What does it take for a crime to be elevated to a hate crime? There was some talk on here about the possible use of racial slurs, but certainly some blacks have used slurs towards there own race in the commission of a crime, so there's got to be some other threshold.

It just seems disingenuous to cast about the term 'racist' merely because race is mentioned. I was stopped for looking suspicious (walking at 2am) because there was a burglary in the neighborhood committed by a white guy... was I racially profiled, sure-- does that make the cops racists?

[LuvRPgrl]

Hey so what does one's race have to do with being racist, really?

Say there's a white guy who hangs around with black guys, colloquially, a wigger. Derided by members of his own race for hanging out with blacks, (eg, calling him a wigger :laugh:), he attacks another white person. Wouldn't that be a racially motivated, white on white crime?
Say there's a serial rapist, a white guy, who only rapes white women-- wouldn't that be racist? If he only raped black women, would that be racist? maybe its just his preference, but its a racial preference.

What does it take for a crime to be elevated to a hate crime? There was some talk on here about the possible use of racial slurs, but certainly some blacks have used slurs towards there own race in the commission of a crime, so there's got to be some other threshold.

It just seems disingenuous to cast about the term 'racist' merely because race is mentioned. I was stopped for looking suspicious (walking at 2am) because there was a burglary in the neighborhood committed by a white guy... was I racially profiled, sure-- does that make the cops racists?

Some good questions, do I have to look in the back of the book for the answers?:laugh:

[Gator Monroe]

I'm not sure Zimmerman is even really part white (His Father had Armenian Jew & Kiowa Commanchee in the woodpile):laugh2:

[LuvRPgrl]

I'm not sure Zimmerman is even really part white (His Father had Armenian Jew & Kiowa Commanchee in the woodpile):laugh2:


armenian is white, as is spanish, I think, he certainly isnt black,
and anyone who knows anything, knows that hispanics hate blacks even more than whites do