'Gay Gag Rule' Now Law in St. Petersburg

[jimnyc]

I wish they would apply this stuff to American schools and ensure our children aren't taught this crap. They shouldn't be taught ANYTHING sexually, at least until a certain grade, but certainly not teaching them that homosexuality is "normal", and at early ages. My son started learning about the queers in his school when he was in like 3rd grade.


An anti-gay law has gone into effect in St Petersburg, prompting fresh concern from gay rights advocates that it will be used to promote hate crimes against homosexual and transgender individuals.

The new law penalizes what proponents say is the promotion of homosexual activity among children, but detractors say it is part of a wider effort to persecute homosexuals in Russia's second largest city.

The law, which took effect Sunday, in part prohibits "the propaganda of homosexuality and pedophilia among minors." Gay rights activists say it would criminalize even reading, writing or speaking about gay, lesbian, or transgender people. Violations carry hefty fines up to $16,700.

"This law has little to do with protecting minors," said Polina Savchenko, director of the St. Petersburg LGBT organization Coming Out, in a statement today.

The law has prompted large protests in front of Russian embassies around the world in recent weeks. Homosexuality was outlawed during the Soviet Union and was only decriminalized by President Boris Yeltsin in 1993, though it remains highly taboo today.

http://news.yahoo.com/gay-gag-rule-now-law-st-petersburg-150030294--abc-news.html

[Noir]

+1 for free speech and freedom of the press, er, ...

[jimnyc]

+1 for free speech and freedom of the press, er, ...

Prohibiting this crap from being disemminated to minors is NOT a hit against freedom of speech, no more than teaching our kids ANY sexual topics while they are minors. This is called "parenting".

[jimnyc]

The new law penalizes what proponents say is the promotion of homosexual activity among children

Can anyone really state that promoting homo activity among children is a good thing? And not wanting such things promoted to children, say in schools for example, would you consider that against "freedom of speech"? I don't think so, personally. I think free speech, when it comes to what adults teach children, is a bit limited or tempered.

[DragonStryk72]

Prohibiting this crap from being disemminated to minors is NOT a hit against freedom of speech, no more than teaching our kids ANY sexual topics while they are minors. This is called "parenting".

So, you want to stop their speech about homosexuals and sexuality as a whole, but that's not a hit on free speech?

[jimnyc]

So, you want to stop their speech about homosexuals and sexuality as a whole, but that's not a hit on free speech?

Freedom of speech doesn't extend to what our children are taught - otherwise, why not teach them ANYTHING. Do we teach our kids about the NFL? Do we teach them how to drink when they get older, or how to get high? Do we teach them about current atrocities in 3rd world countries, cool videos and all? Can we teach them about scat? What about other sexual fetishes, are none of them off limits? I can go on and on and on and on and on with things that shouldn't be taught to our children AND currently aren't. Are we breaking the law daily, surpressing free speech across the nation, because there are certain things are kids aren't taught?

Sorry, I prefer a lot of matters, especially those regarding sex and homosexuality, to be the responsibility of the parents, not a school, or anywhere else for that fact out of my sight.

[jimnyc]

I wonder if the local grammar schools should be promoting abortion or pregnancy. And if not freely discussing these subjects, would it also be a freedom of speech issue. If teaching our children is freedom of speech, other than unlawful things, what CAN'T a teacher bring to our children, without it being a free speech issue?

[DragonStryk72]

Freedom of speech doesn't extend to what our children are taught - otherwise, why not teach them ANYTHING. Do we teach our kids about the NFL? Do we teach them how to drink when they get older, or how to get high? Do we teach them about current atrocities in 3rd world countries, cool videos and all? Can we teach them about scat? What about other sexual fetishes, are none of them off limits? I can go on and on and on and on and on with things that shouldn't be taught to our children AND currently aren't. Are we breaking the law daily, surpressing free speech across the nation, because there are certain things are kids aren't taught?

Sorry, I prefer a lot of matters, especially those regarding sex and homosexuality, to be the responsibility of the parents, not a school, or anywhere else for that fact out of my sight.

Football: Taught in Gym
Children are in fact taught about alcohol awareness as well as drug awareness in school, usually stupidly, but still.
We teach them about the holocaust, including having them read the Diary of Anne Frank, who is killed in an internment camp after the ending. Yeah, that's right, child murder and genocide are taught in our schools. I can only imagine how that section of history goes in German schools
We do teach about sex, although more in a "be careful" vein, as opposed to a how-to manual.

Problem with relying solely on parents for sexual education is that too many don't teach their kids anything about it, putting it off until their friends "teach" them, or they... well fuck up themselves. If you wany publicly available education, that means that eventually they're going to be taught shit that we don't feel like we want them taught. This has pretty much been true as long as there's been education.

[Noir]

Prohibiting this crap from being disemminated to minors is NOT a hit against freedom of speech, no more than teaching our kids ANY sexual topics while they are minors. This is called "parenting".

This isn't about minors, Making it illegal for gay relationships in plays, and writing *is* limiting free speech in every sense.

'Oh no, we can't have a play with gays in it, or a book that has a lesbian lover interest, what if I child should see/read it, the horror!'

I mean, how on earth could a parent ever cope with a child saying 'why are those two men holding hands?' They may have to say something like 'Well some men love men and some woman love woman, that's life' how could a parent ever be expected to do that?!? No, the only sensible way is to pass laws to criminalize free expression, drama, and literature.

Note this post has it's doses of sarcasm

[jimnyc]

Football: Taught in Gym
Children are in fact taught about alcohol awareness as well as drug awareness in school, usually stupidly, but still.
We teach them about the holocaust, including having them read the Diary of Anne Frank, who is killed in an internment camp after the ending. Yeah, that's right, child murder and genocide are taught in our schools. I can only imagine how that section of history goes in German schools
We do teach about sex, although more in a "be careful" vein, as opposed to a how-to manual.

Problem with relying solely on parents for sexual education is that too many don't teach their kids anything about it, putting it off until their friends "teach" them, or they... well fuck up themselves. If you wany publicly available education, that means that eventually they're going to be taught shit that we don't feel like we want them taught. This has pretty much been true as long as there's been education.

Teaching historical events and PROMOTING homosexuality are extremely different. I don't think ANY sex should be taught to our children. At the very most, have it as an elective class with parents permission, not force all parents to accept the teachers parenting for them. Why would we be promoting ANY type of sex to "children" anyway?

And it's certainly not a free speech issue. The education system has been determining our history books, and other educational books, for as long as I can remember. While homosexuality has been around for a long time, forever if you ask some people... It's not something that was ever on the education's radar as something that needed to be taught and "promoted" to our children.

By law it's not a freedom of speech issue, not even remotely close. And speaking as a parent of just one small boy, I think it's outright mandatory that certain subjects, topics & discussions are best left for the parents. And if a few don't do their parenting jobs, that hardly means ALL parents should now be subjected to having teachers act as stand-ins for us.

[jimnyc]

This isn't about minors, Making it illegal for gay relationships in plays, and writing *is* limiting free speech in every sense.

'Oh no, we can't have a play with gays in it, or a book that has a lesbian lover interest, what if I child should see/read it, the horror!'

I mean, how on earth could a parent ever cope with a child saying 'why are those two men holding hands?' They may have to say something like 'Well some men love men and some woman love woman, that's life' how could a parent ever be expected to do that?!? No, the only sensible way is to pass laws to criminalize free expression, drama, and literature.

Note this post has it's doses of sarcasm

If it weren't about children aka minors, I would have a bit of a different stance on certain issues. But it is, just as the article indicates.

[fj1200]

Why do we care about Russia?

[jimnyc]

Why do we care about Russia?

I though it newsworthy, only in comparison. Quite frankly, I don't give a shit what they do over there. I guess I used their current times to compare to what we would want or not want in similar situations.

[Noir]

If it weren't about children aka minors, I would have a bit of a different stance on certain issues. But it is, just as the article indicates.

Pro-tip, look beyond the article.

The legislation is intentionally vague, and includes the right to ban books, newspaper articles, plays and gay/lesbian/bi/trans speakers in public squares.

[jimnyc]

Pro-tip, look beyond the article.

The legislation is intentionally vague, and includes the right to ban books, newspaper articles, plays and gay/lesbian/bi/trans speakers in public squares.

In that regard, I wouldn't stand by such legislation. I'm against things directed at our children. Book bans, only if in public schools and attempt to promote sex. Newspaper articles, only if somehow in public schools and geared towards the children, and again, promoting sex. And if it's too vague, I would agree in making it less so.

I'm strictly against this stuff because of the "promoting homosexuality towards our children" in the article, and how and if it were to ever happen here in the States. My stance is that a school for children, shouldn't be promoting homosexuality towards the kids, and IMO, not sex at all. Certainly not everything in the world is taught to kids in our schools, and things some may find as worthy, might get chopped from the curriculum as things we don't want taught to our children.

[DragonStryk72]

Teaching historical events and PROMOTING homosexuality are extremely different. I don't think ANY sex should be taught to our children. At the very most, have it as an elective class with parents permission, not force all parents to accept the teachers parenting for them. Why would we be promoting ANY type of sex to "children" anyway?

And it's certainly not a free speech issue. The education system has been determining our history books, and other educational books, for as long as I can remember. While homosexuality has been around for a long time, forever if you ask some people... It's not something that was ever on the education's radar as something that needed to be taught and "promoted" to our children.

By law it's not a freedom of speech issue, not even remotely close. And speaking as a parent of just one small boy, I think it's outright mandatory that certain subjects, topics & discussions are best left for the parents. And if a few don't do their parenting jobs, that hardly means ALL parents should now be subjected to having teachers act as stand-ins for us.

Was the holocaust not an atrocity? 6,000,000 Jews would say otherwise, but they died. You brought up the teaching of atrocities, Jim, and we already do that now was my point.

Right, until parents complained that sex ed needed to be taught in schools, and since no one can stop talking about it on either side of the fence these days, how would you suggest it get continually dodged by the schools? No kid is going to voluntarily sign up for Sex Ed, it's sooo god damned boring when it's taught in school and no kid wants to sit through it. Making it voluntary just means that any gravity it might have had is lost since, as per kid logic, it doesn't matter.

some is not the majority, Jim. It's great you're holding up your end, but you're on here complaining repeatedly about the exact point that parents aren't teaching their kids properly, and haven't been for some time. Think of the biggest dipshit on the site, and understand that schools are bidding against the teachings of that person.

And seriously, schools have to approve what books they're going to use, regardless, that's the thing with any school. I only got taught at Catholic School what the school wanted to teach me, though of course they had mandatory English, Math, and other required courses by the state. There's just no time to teach that in-depth, especially with all the extra standardized tests that have been shoehorned into the already full curriculums at schools now.

Schools are not going to come down against homosexuality, Jim. Even if the entire admin staff agreed with you it's wrong, it's just not going to happen, because they will never hear the end of it. Homosexuality is part of the culture at this point, Jim, so whether you agree with it or not, teachers have to field these questions, lots of times because students don't feel comfortable talking about sex stuff with their parents. Me and my dad equally dreaded that discussion when I was growing up.

[jimnyc]

Sorry, but you'll never convince me that "promoting" homosexuality to our children is in any way good, normal or acceptable. It's something that less than 5% of our nation engages in, is detrimental to an astronomical number of them that engage in the practice, and is deviant and abnormal compared to what society should be promoting. Just because gay people have "won" the right to get married via judges, and against the wishes of the people, it certainly doesn't make it something our schools should be promoting to our children. If they MUST, then they should be discouraging it, not promoting it, and explaining all the dangers involved in homosexual sex.

[jimnyc]

DS - I wanted to make a clarification. You posted several things, the mass murdering, genocide, holocaust... Don't forget here, we are talking about CHILDREN. When I say that, I'm thinking grammar school level. High School kids I would refer to as "Teenagers" or young adults, not children. And yes, that's a HUGE difference. Talking about the holocaust when you're in 10th grade or a Senior, is a big difference than talking about it to 5-8 year olds. I don't think you'll find many grammar schools aka "children", teaching or being taught the things you mention, but yes, they are in HS.

[revelarts]

Sorry, but you'll never convince me that "promoting" homosexuality to our children is in any way good, normal or acceptable. It's something that less than 5% of our nation engages in, is detrimental to an astronomical number of them that engage in the practice, and is deviant and abnormal compared to what society should be promoting. Just because gay people have "won" the right to get married via judges, and against the wishes of the people, it certainly doesn't make it something our schools should be promoting to our children. If they MUST, then they should be discouraging it, not promoting it, and explaining all the dangers involved in homosexual sex.
agreed.
Minors that is at least 11 or 12 and under have NO need to be taught about homosexuality. period.
Human Sexual activity is not a need to know activity at that point except to say NO ONE should touch your private areaes, P-nis- or V-gina, and you don't show anyone your privates unless your parents or a dr when hurt specifically there. It's a non issue for chlidren, Kissing is a big enough intamacy for kids to be aware of. many are embrassed by that. beyond that age it's the parents prerogative to teach the kids what they want about the issue. the school is servant to the parents 1st, not society so called. I don't know how that plays out in Russia but those who Want it taught usually want it taught in a way that many/most understand to be wrong. Sorry you can make the controversy go away and stamping your feet won't change the fact that many people think homosexuality is and alway will be a perversion. Would those of you that want it taught in schools want it taught as such? It's free speech that's the real issue here according to some right? then lets teach Homosexuality is a perversion to all of the children 12 and up. Is there a problem? Your best bet is to leave the subject out until high school if you must have it at all and then only to acknowlegde it as a sexual act and leave off any judgements as to it's "normalcy" with polygamy, beastality, incest, necrophilia and transgenderness. As none standard human sexual activity.

[jimnyc]

I think we can all be looking at this from different perspectives too. The article states "minors", which would generally speaking be anyone under 17-18. But it also states it is against promoting homosexuality towards "children". From my POV, I wouldn't consider a 15-17yr old to be a "child", but a young adult or teenager. My points thus far, are thinking of MY child, pre-teen, in a grammar school environment where they are all referred to as children. I think these definitions may very between different people.

I think they can/should discuss the history of certain things in HS, where they are a bit more mature and understanding of certain subjects, but I personally am against them teaching our kids about sex. The failure of a handful of parents to properly discuss such things with their children shouldn't give the schools the right to step in and educate ALL children on sexual activity. And even then, it shouldn't be "promoting" homosexuality. And even then, if they did, I hope they're promoting the devastating effects it can have, first and foremost.

[jimnyc]

agreed.
Minors that is at least 11 or 12 and under have NO need to be taught about homosexuality. period.
Human Sexual activity is not a need to know activity at that point except to say NO ONE should touch your private areaes, P-nis- or V-gina, and you don't show anyone your privates unless your parents or a dr when hurt specifically there. It's a non issue for chlidren, Kissing is a big enough intamacy for kids to be aware of. many are embrassed by that. beyond that age it's the parents prerogative to teach the kids what they want about the issue. the school is servant to the parents 1st, not society so called. I don't know how that plays out in Russia but those who Want it taught usually want it taught in a way that many/most understand to be wrong. Sorry you can make the controversy go away and stamping your feet won't change the fact that many people think homosexuality is and alway will be a perversion. Would those of you that want it taught in schools want it taught as such? It's free speech that's the real issue here according to some right? then lets teach Homosexuality is a perversion to all of the children 12 and up. Is there a problem? Your best bet is to leave the subject out until high school if you must have it at all and then only to acknowlegde it as a sexual act and leave off any judgements as to it's "normalcy" with polygamy, beastality, incest, necrophilia and transgenderness. As none standard human sexual activity.

Being transgendered is actually popping up more and more. We recently had a little debate here about kids going to school dressed as the opposite sex, and what rights, if any, they have to do so. But if you want to promote homosexuality as normal, then I guess many would state they should do the same with transgendered discussions.

[logroller]

Pro-tip, look beyond the article.

The legislation is intentionally vague, and includes the right to ban books, newspaper articles, plays and gay/lesbian/bi/trans speakers in public squares.
Nah; not In Russia-- that's just crazy. :rolleyes:

[Abbey Marie]

...
Sorry, i prefer a lot of matters, especially those regarding sex and homosexuality, to be the responsibility of the parents, not a school, or anywhere else for that fact out of my sight.

3366
Exactly!

[Gator Monroe]

Pro Masculine (Gay) Minor Attracted (Nambla) types are gonna become a protected class of folks living "Just another alternative lifestyle" and they will be taught as such in California Schools ...

[bullypulpit]

Newsflash Jimmy...homosexuality IS natural, found in more than 1500 other animal species.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

[jimnyc]

Newsflash Jimmy...homosexuality IS natural, found in more than 1500 other animal species.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

I thought we were talking about promoting homosexuality to children, now how natural it is....

But it's proven scientific fact that in nature animals will eat one anothers shit. Many eat their own babies, or other babies. We're supposed to be above the behavior of animals, not taking their lead.