If Being An American Citizen Means Nothing...

[Hugh Lincoln]

And when amnesty goes through, it will...

What exactly were we fighting for in the Revolutionary War? What did all the men (and women) who put on uniforms to fight and die for America die for?

If any person living on the globe is "an American citizen" simply by breaking in, what does it mean to have a country in the first place? I mean, if it's just a patch of land, what's the difference between here and there? If its laws mean nothing, who cares?

If borders are meaningless, why have them? Why do we have check-in at JFK? Why not just scrap that whole thing? Why do I have to have a passport, if my citizenship means nothing? Isn't that a $60 bucks I could have spent elsewhere?

And other confusion.

[loosecannon]

I fully agree, it makes no sense at all to base our entire way of life on our nationalism and nation if we abandon those ideas for vacuous reasons.

But the nation state is a new idea. And it is proving itself to be problematic.

The nation state is blamed for causing WWI and II as well as the holocausts in Europe and the USSR (something on the order of 17 million folks were killed in Europe, and 15 million more in the USSR)

The ME had nation states imposed upon them, and those states are largely failing as a result.

Nation states were founded for the benefit of empires until the democratic revolution swept the world.

Our futures depend on these decisions.

And a global trend toward mega federations like the EU is challenging our notions of nations.

You should read 1984 by George Orwell again. He predicted this trend and it was not pretty.

[Hugh Lincoln]

Yes, though in many cases, the most functional nation-states began literally as people-nations, or blood-tie nations. One in particular didn't need a "place" --- the people themselves were "the nation." That's the Jews of the Bible, and today's too, in a way. "Israel" is just their (ahem) chosen location.

Other "nations" are similar. Iraq is not a nation because it's just a line on a map. Its true "nations" I guess are Kurds, Shiites and Shia.

The U.S. as a "nation" was its founding Western people. They shared blood and language and history and culture. Now it's not that any longer. But believe me --- the Hispanics taking over DO consider themselves "a people" (LA RAZA) and they know how to take advantage of that. To my mind, the only way to fight back is to re-establish our own peoplehood.

[loosecannon]

Yes, though in many cases, the most functional nation-states began literally as people-nations, or blood-tie nations. One in particular didn't need a "place" --- the people themselves were "the nation." That's the Jews of the Bible, and today's too, in a way. "Israel" is just their (ahem) chosen location.

Other "nations" are similar. Iraq is not a nation because it's just a line on a map. Its true "nations" I guess are Kurds, Shiites and Shia.

The U.S. as a "nation" was its founding Western people. They shared blood and language and history and culture. Now it's not that any longer. But believe me --- the Hispanics taking over DO consider themselves "a people" (LA RAZA) and they know how to take advantage of that. To my mind, the only way to fight back is to re-establish our own peoplehood.


So what would establishing our own peoplehood involve Hugh?

We actually have been pretty damned divided along red/blue/slave/free state lines since before the revolution.

[Dilloduck]

So what would establishing our own peoplehood involve Hugh?

We actually have been pretty damned divided along red/blue/slave/free state lines since before the revolution.

We could bring back our favorite old American icons like the Frito Bandito ! :poke:

sorry loose----carry on.