U.S. announces diplomatic breakthrough with North Korea

[jimnyc]

I'll be very curious to see how this works out going forward...


The United States announced a major diplomatic breakthrough with North Korea Wednesday.

Under an agreement reached in direct talks in Beijing last week, North Korea has agreed to allow the return of International Atomic Energy Agency nuclear inspectors, as well as to implement a moratorium on long-range missile tests, nuclear tests, and nuclear activities at Yongbyon, including uranium enrichment activities, the State Department said. In return, the United States will provide North Korea with a major food aid package.

"To improve the atmosphere for dialogue and demonstrate its commitment to denuclearization, the DPRK has agreed to implement a moratorium on long-range missile launches, nuclear tests and nuclear activities at Yongbyon, including uranium enrichment activities," State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said in a press statement Wednesday. "The DPRK has also agreed to the return of IAEA inspectors to verify and monitor the moratorium on uranium enrichment activities at Yongbyon and confirm the disablement of the 5-MW reactor and associated facilities."

Despite the stunning breakthrough, "the United States still has profound concerns regarding North Korean behavior across a wide range of areas," Nuland's statement continued, but added that "today's announcement reflects important, if limited, progress in addressing some of these."

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/u-announces-diplomatic-breakthrough-north-korea-152331635.html

[logroller]

Isn't there some euphemism about how a family run business, once controlled by the third generation, is on its way to failure? I feel like I've heard that, and wonder if we're seeing that happen to the DPRK. Not saying its such a bad thing, far from it, diplomacy gets two thumbs up, just saying its notable and has anyone else heard that same thing about the third gen?

[jimnyc]

Isn't there some euphemism about how a family run business, once controlled by the third generation, is on its way to failure? I feel like I've heard that, and wonder if we're seeing that happen to the DPRK. Not saying its such a bad thing, far from it, diplomacy gets two thumbs up, just saying its notable and has anyone else heard that same thing about the third gen?

It also wouldn't surprise me if they came to the table, get aid from us via food, then end up getting money - and then leave us at the table.

[CSM]

It also wouldn't surprise me if they came to the table, get aid from us via food, then end up getting money - and then leave us at the table.

Like that has never happened before! I take anything NK does/says with a grain of salt.

[logroller]

It also wouldn't surprise me if they came to the table, get aid from us via food, then end up getting money - and then leave us at the table.
Well that's certainly a risk; but not a great one IMO. I mean, they already know their nukes work; but what I suspect, rather than a ruse to get some money, is that their reactor is aging and probably needs major overhauls(not unlike their economy and society in general). At the very least, I hope the money does get spent on food for people, so even if they bock on the IAEA inspections for the umpteenth time, its not entirely a loss and maybe earns us a little diplomatic capital with the host of nations which have been opposed to our ME interests in Syria and Iran.

[Wind Song]

I'm skeptical of this "breakthrough". Something had to change because Kim Jong Ill died. That doesn't mean his son/successor is a trustworthy ally.

[jimnyc]

I'm skeptical of this "breakthrough". Something had to change because Kim Jong Ill died. That doesn't mean his son/successor is a trustworthy ally.

Still doesn't mean we should give up attempts to get them to toss aside their nuclear ambitions. ANY headway with them is good. And a change in leaders, even if it's family, is ALWAYS a good time for change.

[Wind Song]

Still doesn't mean we should give up attempts to get them to toss aside their nuclear ambitions. ANY headway with them is good. And a change in leaders, even if it's family, is ALWAYS a good time for change.


Of course.

Why is no one asking us to give up our nuclear ambitions?

[jimnyc]

Of course.

Why is no one asking us to give up our nuclear ambitions?

Where have you been for YEARS? We've been working on non-proliferation and disarmament treaties for a long, long time.

[Wind Song]

Where have you been for YEARS? We've been working on non-proliferation and disarmament treaties for a long, long time.

I am pointing out our hypocrisy. We want to disarm everyone but ourselves and our allies. Bush abused his power in Iraq because of his bullshit yellow cake story. What makes you think it can't happen again?

[jimnyc]

I am pointing out our hypocrisy. We want to disarm everyone but ourselves and our allies.

Did you even read what you replied to? WE as in the USA, have been involved in non-proliferation and disarmement treaties for a long, long time.

[jimnyc]

Bush abused his power in Iraq because of his bullshit yellow cake story. What makes you think it can't happen again?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/secret-us-mission-hauls-uranium-iraq/#.T05UcPUho4c

[Wind Song]

Did you even read what you replied to? WE as in the USA, have been involved in non-proliferation and disarmement treaties for a long, long time.

Yes, I know that. So what?

My point still stands.

We act like imperialists and we wonder why we have enemies.

[jimnyc]

Yes, I know that. So what?

My point still stands.

We act like imperialists and we wonder why we have enemies.

Your point is wrong, whether you stand by it or not.

[logroller]

I am pointing out our hypocrisy. We want to disarm everyone but ourselves and our allies. Bush abused his power in Iraq because of his bullshit yellow cake story. What makes you think it can't happen again?
As opposed to the hypocrisy of giving culturally, politically, religious et al-- oppressive nations the freedom to develop nuclear weapons...you seem to operate under the false belief that diplomacy and politics operate under the strictest moral scrutiny.
Well of course the magic 8-ball says its "Bushie's fault"; maybe it is, but hope springs eternal and in the end the way truth, love and understanding will win the day. That day will come sooner, rather than later, when countries stop producing, testing and stockpiling nuclear armaments.

[Thunderknuckles]

What a crock. Laura Rozen should be ashamed of herself for characterizing this as some sort of "stunning breakthrough" as should any one of you that buy into that notion.
A few days ago the North Koreans vowed a "Sacred War" over the upcoming joint military exercises between the U.S. and South Korean. A few days later NK magically shows up at the diplomatic table with concessions in return for U.S. Aid.
If you don't recognize this pattern, its only been occurring over the last several decades. I'll see you all in the next year or two, when the pattern repeats itself once again and we arrive at another "stunning breakthrough" involving the same thing :laugh:

[Wind Song]

As opposed to the hypocrisy of giving culturally, politically, religious et al-- oppressive nations the freedom to develop nuclear weapons...you seem to operate under the false belief that diplomacy and politics operate under the strictest moral scrutiny.
Well of course the magic 8-ball says its "Bushie's fault"; maybe it is, but hope springs eternal and in the end the way truth, love and understanding will win the day. That day will come sooner, rather than later, when countries stop producing, testing and stockpiling nuclear armaments.

What makes you think the US isn't an oppressive nation to other countries? I'd like to see ALL countries stop producing, testing and stockpiling nuclear arms.

[Wind Song]

Your point is wrong, whether you stand by it or not.

And you're always :thumb:right. LOL.

[logroller]

What makes you think the US isn't an oppressive nation to other countries? I'd like to see ALL countries stop producing, testing and stockpiling nuclear arms.

Economically, you have a point-- but as I'll explain, its the lesser of two evils. I'd like to see peace, love and harmony, and no need of want...but the reality is resources are scarce and we institute nation-states to effect our safety and happiness, which inevitably involves the pursuit of resources. With that comes some unfortunate, but unavoidable evils-- assertion of dominance for one. Historically, the struggle for this dominance has been a bloody one. All wars are driven by this struggle for resources; be it water, as it is in Gaza, or food/ enriched uranium as is the case at hand-- he who controls the resources, wields the power. Once power is attained, it is rarely relinquished peaceably; but rather, with near certainty, it is relinquished under duress, or threat of a worse outcome.

Indeed no system of government is more effectual than one of despotism and tyranny. The efficiency, however, is ill-served, which results in poor long-term stability; because people are a resource and when they're undervalued the motivation to produce and the inspiration to achieve is lackluster.

When such a people yearn for more, a conflict ensues and is typically met with force rather than reason, and a deep animus results. This is how despotic regimes fuel hatred, not only between rival factions, but of the trade nations such as the US. We just want access to resources, and the quickest and easiest way to do that has been the rule.

So we've three options: a) abstain from trade and allow other trade nations to gain power and attract the animus, b) sanction trade with multilateral international agreements or c) engage in armed conflict, either passively through arms trade, actively through occupation or a combination of both.

Wholesale conflict, the kind necessary to bring about a democracy, would be devastating. People get so upset about what, ten, twenty, a hundred thousand dead in Iraq,(mostly because its still pretty shitty) but historically, that # doesn't hold a candle to the number which have been sacrificed to bring about stable governments in other states-- even our own! So like I said, posturing and sanctions isn't the perfect solution, merely the best one.

[jimnyc]

And you're always :thumb:right. LOL.

Nope, just that my stance is backed by facts, yours is not. So now you'll act snarky then address my answers, which made you look foolish.

[fj1200]

Isn't there some euphemism about how a family run business, once controlled by the third generation, is on its way to failure? I feel like I've heard that, and wonder if we're seeing that happen to the DPRK. Not saying its such a bad thing, far from it, diplomacy gets two thumbs up, just saying its notable and has anyone else heard that same thing about the third gen?

Shirtsleeves-to-shirtsleeves in three generations.

[fj1200]

What makes you think the US isn't an oppressive nation to other countries? I'd like to see ALL countries stop producing, testing and stockpiling nuclear arms.

Who has the US oppressed?

[fj1200]

Well that didn't last long.



North Korea says it will launch long-range rocket (http://news.yahoo.com/north-korea-says-launch-long-range-rocket-042546009.html)
PYONGYANG, North Korea (AP) — North Korea announced plans Friday to blast a satellite into space on the back of a long-range rocket, a provocative move that could jeopardize a weeks-old agreement with the U.S. exchanging food aid for nuclear concessions.
The North agreed to a moratorium on long-range launches as part of the deal with Washington, but it argues that its satellite launches are part of a peaceful space program that is exempt from any international disarmament agreements. The U.S., South Korea and other critics say the rocket technology overlaps with belligerent uses and condemn the satellite program as a disguised way of testing military missiles in defiance of a U.N. ban.

...

[Thunderknuckles]

Well that didn't last long.
LOL, at least they are sticking to the playbook. They've launched a "satellite" twice before. In both cases the launch resulted in the rockets never making it to orbit, instead flying over or near Japan in a not so subtle threat to the Japanese. If they get this one off the ground it will be interesting to see where the rocket goes. Good money says no where near orbit :laugh:

I suspect current negotiations are going poorly. The North Koreans don't like the deal and are using this event to up the ante.