General chit chat... probably not..... but an important subject.....

[Trinity]

I debated even posting this...

One of my 15 year old's best friends committed suicide last week. I was completely unprepared for this situation. From all accounts he was a happy go lucky, class clown kind of kid always making other people laugh and seem to be enjoying life. http://newsdemocrat.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=135117&TM=71981.14


This was a tough situation for me and my son. I never got to meet Chance, but my son told me enough about him that I felt like I knew him.


While talking to my son to see what he thought about why he might have done this....we broached the subject of bullying along with other topics home life, etc....my son said his home life was good, and no he's a big guy no one would mess with him like that. I then pointed out there are other forms of bullying such as mental abuse. My son said well yeah some kids made fun of him because of his hair. (he's the only white guy I know with an afro - my son's words) I asked him if he had ever told him he was depressed? He said yeah we talked about things like that sometimes and he had joked around about committing suicide before, but he was always joking, he's been saying that off and on since 7th grade (he was a sophomore).

I found out from some other classmates that this kid had been told by other kids that they were going to kill him.

Last but not least and without a doubt this is my child and probably the only one out of the 400+ people who attended this child's layout who noticed this.....My son says to me "mom I walked up to the casket and everyone was focused on his neck because he hung himself and you could see the marks even with him in a turtleneck. But I already knew so I wasn't looking at his neck I was looking at his hands and you could see the indentations in his fingers from where it looks like he tried to save himself."

WOW! How do you handle something like that? (at that point I don't even know what to say)


This has been really hard for me to deal with.... I think my 15 year old may be handling it better then I am.


Bullying has become a huge problem

http://www.familyfirstaid.org/bullying.html

http://www.stop-bullies.com/blog/teen-bullying/bullying-and-teen-suicide-have-now-become-synonymous/

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=55145




Even if you think their joking take it seriously.

[KitchenKitten99]

Wow, that is really harsh for your son to deal with. I cannot imagine a friend doing this.

Bullying isn't a good thing but I really wonder if it truly is as big of a problem or bigger than it ever used to be. Or are we just being told repeatedly that it is a bigger problem now than even 50 years ago?

Or have we not taught our general populous of children how to deal with adversity? How to keep plugging on no matter how crappy things seem? How to rise above petty taunts and teasing because the world outside school is even more cruel than the words uttered by others?

I was picked on. Mercilessly. Sometimes to the point of hating every hour of every day of school-elementary, middle, and high school. I was a bit overweight. My clothes were obviously from K-mart (and other similar stores). My own sense of style had not yet been refined. I cried myself to sleep some nights. This was before internet even became a vocabulary word.

But you know what's funny? Regardless of the severe lack of self esteem I had, or how bad I felt at times, suicide never entered my mind. Neither did retaliation of any violent kind.

I knew of other kids who were tormented by the same methods and about similar things as I was. No one in any of my schools committed suicide because of it. All the deaths in my graduating class have been sickness or accidents. No one shot anyone.

School shootings never happened (if they did happen, they haven't been publicized) until Columbine, which was the same year of my graduation. Yet after that one incident, 108 more incidents happened over the 10 year span from 1999 to 2009. So why did it happen more after the one major incident? Bullying has been around since humans began to roam the Earth. Picking on the weaker members of a group is seen in many other species.

The issue to me should not be "What are we doing to put an end to bullying?"
To me it should be "What are we doing to teach our kids that the world is a cruel place and to survive you must sometimes endure unpleasant and hostile behavior and words from others?"

[Trinity]

Wow, that is really harsh for your son to deal with. I cannot imagine a friend doing this.

Bullying isn't a good thing but I really wonder if it truly is as big of a problem or bigger than it ever used to be. Or are we just being told repeatedly that it is a bigger problem now than even 50 years ago?

Or have we not taught our general populous of children how to deal with adversity? How to keep plugging on no matter how crappy things seem? How to rise above petty taunts and teasing because the world outside school is even more cruel than the words uttered by others?

I was picked on. Mercilessly. Sometimes to the point of hating every hour of every day of school-elementary, middle, and high school. I was a bit overweight. My clothes were obviously from K-mart (and other similar stores). My own sense of style had not yet been refined. I cried myself to sleep some nights. This was before internet even became a vocabulary word.

But you know what's funny? Regardless of the severe lack of self esteem I had, or how bad I felt at times, suicide never entered my mind. Neither did retaliation of any violent kind.

I knew of other kids who were tormented by the same methods and about similar things as I was. No one in any of my schools committed suicide because of it. All the deaths in my graduating class have been sickness or accidents. No one shot anyone.

School shootings never happened (if they did happen, they haven't been publicized) until Columbine, which was the same year of my graduation. Yet after that one incident, 108 more incidents happened over the 10 year span from 1999 to 2009. So why did it happen more after the one major incident? Bullying has been around since humans began to roam the Earth. Picking on the weaker members of a group is seen in many other species.

The issue to me should not be "What are we doing to put an end to bullying?"
To me it should be "What are we doing to teach our kids that the world is a cruel place and to survive you must sometimes endure unpleasant and hostile behavior and words from others?"



My thoughts exactly...I was bullied and teased endlessly as a child and teen and never did the thought of suicide cross my mind. I also have no experience with someone committing suicide, which is why this topic was never discussed with my boys.

I have discussed with them how cruel and mean kids can be. And that people who tend to make fun of others tend to have a low self esteem, it makes them feel better about themselves to make fun of others.

[darin]

ugh. Tragedy. Ultimately, bullying is not the blame - the boy holds hte blame. That said, Parents today, by and large, are TERRIBLE.

[Jess]

Sorry to hear that, Trinity. A waste of life, hmmm? And you're right - even if somebody jokes - take it very seriously. At least address it, perhaps this young man would have realized that his was a permanent solution to a temporary problem had he been able to discuss it with somebody. Very sad.


Do kids these days just have no concept of reality? Of the finality of death? Are they surrounded by too much make believe death or comebacks that they don't get the fact that dead is dead?

I would have to agree with some others on the topic of bullying as well. Yes, it sucks but I got bullied worse by my big brother than anybody else. Of course, if he was around, nobody else better try to bully me.

Not everybody in this world is gonna like you - that's their problem. Stick with your friends and family, consider the source of the bullying (they are usually wusses who can't hang with people their own size/age), blow it off and move on.

[darin]

I wonder if we set our kids up for failure with the self-worship we pour onto the lives of young folk? When kids are absorbing a barrage of "You are AWESOME!" and "You can be anything!" and "Nobody ever loses!" and "It's never good to feel bad!" messages; are we leaving our kids ill-equipped to deal with frustration?

At my son's Bday party over the weekend, I staged games for his friends. As I was explaining the games, and how to win, one of the kids said "yeah, but everyone gets something, right?" I answered "No - only the winners get a prize. They get a prize for winning. The FUN is in playing; the REWARD is in success!" Their eyes got HUGE. Everyone tried really hard. Everyone had fun. Most kids lost. 4 winning teams got prizes (two-man-teams). Some won twice. :)

[Jess]

I wonder if we set our kids up for failure with the self-worship we pour onto the lives of young folk? When kids are absorbing a barrage of "You are AWESOME!" and "You can be anything!" and "Nobody ever loses!" and "It's never good to feel bad!" messages; are we leaving our kids ill-equipped to deal with frustration?

At my son's Bday party over the weekend, I staged games for his friends. As I was explaining the games, and how to win, one of the kids said "yeah, but everyone gets something, right?" I answered "No - only the winners get a prize. They get a prize for winning. The FUN is in playing; the REWARD is in success!" Their eyes got HUGE. Everyone tried really hard. Everyone had fun. Most kids lost. 4 winning teams got prizes (two-man-teams). Some won twice. :)

Indeed.

If the kids come to us and say "That's not fair!" all they ever hear back is "Life isn't fair." Better they know that now than have it be a rude awakening. Sometimes life flat-out sucks but it's better than the alternative, to my way of thinking.

Kudos on only the winners getting prizes. When I volunteered at Special Olympics (equstrian programs), they all got something. You could point that out to the kids next time. ;)
And even at the Special Olympics, the top kids got the big medals and others got participation ribbons or something like that.

[Shadow]

I wonder if we set our kids up for failure with the self-worship we pour onto the lives of young folk? When kids are absorbing a barrage of "You are AWESOME!" and "You can be anything!" and "Nobody ever loses!" and "It's never good to feel bad!" messages; are we leaving our kids ill-equipped to deal with frustration?

At my son's Bday party over the weekend, I staged games for his friends. As I was explaining the games, and how to win, one of the kids said "yeah, but everyone gets something, right?" I answered "No - only the winners get a prize. They get a prize for winning. The FUN is in playing; the REWARD is in success!" Their eyes got HUGE. Everyone tried really hard. Everyone had fun. Most kids lost. 4 winning teams got prizes (two-man-teams). Some won twice. :)

Yes...today's kids and young adults are probably ill equiped to deal with psychological abuse. Especially since our society puts so much emphasis on fitting in and being popular. Having dealt with this kind of abuse as an adult, I can tell you...it's not something that just happens overnight. The people who bully get great pleasure out of it and have a goal in mind...your submission. And they can be relentless.

First thing they will work on is making you uncomfortable...then they will move on to taking away your support groups (family,friends whatever). Once this has been accomplished the abuse will usually escalate. And just ignoring these kinds of people doesn't always help the situation.

This kid probably felt like he had no where to turn...no help/support in sight. It's a shame.

[Binky]

When I was about 14 a neighor boy who lived two doors down from us was always picking on my younger brother. We'd all been out iceskating and were on our way home when this boy came up and began to hassle my brother yet again. This was a constant thing that went on and I was tired of it. I yelled at the kid to knock it off but he chose to continue with his actions. So.......on that note, while still in my skates, I swung out my leg and kicked that boy in his crotch. He fell to the ground crying like a baby. I said, "there, maybe next time you'll think before hassling someone." And we went on home. Out of the blue, that boy and his family up and moved and we never saw them again.

Many years later, when my own son was in high school, he was continually being bullied by a couple of other boys. My son was a pale boy with very blonde hair. He stuck out like a sore thumb and made a very good target. After being harassed for a couple of months, he finally came to me and asked me what he could do to get those boys off his back. I told him, he needed to become best friends with the biggest, meamest guy in school and make it known they were friends. One day, he came home telling me of a huge boy he'd met and that they started hanging around together. I asked him if he was still getting bullied and he said no, because the other kids were scared shitless of the boy he was hanging with. LOLOLOL! Just goes to show ya that evey now and then, when we least expect it, our kids will listen to what we're saying.

[Trinity]

Indeed.

If the kids come to us and say "That's not fair!" all they ever hear back is "Life isn't fair." Better they know that now than have it be a rude awakening. Sometimes life flat-out sucks but it's better than the alternative, to my way of thinking.

Kudos on only the winners getting prizes. When I volunteered at Special Olympics (equstrian programs), they all got something. You could point that out to the kids next time. ;)
And even at the Special Olympics, the top kids got the big medals and others got participation ribbons or something like that.


I have to comment on this.... my 15 year old is here tonight and was reading over my shoulder and busts out with "kids don't want to hear life isn't fair all the time... it just makes us think adults are being dicks" I said to him whoa wait a minute you're reading an adult conversation and I know what she means... you are reading this from a teen perspective and being told life isn't fair in an age appropriate manner is what she is saying but your not there yet... so you took it to another level. I said... think about it for a minute, how many times have i told you life isn't fair not in those exact words but in words you understood for your age..needless to say.... he was like oh.... ok I see. Gotta love the wanna be adults...and then they get checked ;)

[Trinity]

When I was about 14 a neighor boy who lived two doors down from us was always picking on my younger brother. We'd all been out iceskating and were on our way home when this boy came up and began to hassle my brother yet again. This was a constant thing that went on and I was tired of it. I yelled at the kid to knock it off but he chose to continue with his actions. So.......on that note, while still in my skates, I swung out my leg and kicked that boy in his crotch. He fell to the ground crying like a baby. I said, "there, maybe next time you'll think before hassling someone." And we went on home. Out of the blue, that boy and his family up and moved and we never saw them again.

Many years later, when my own son was in high school, he was continually being bullied by a couple of other boys. My son was a pale boy with very blonde hair. He stuck out like a sore thumb and made a very good target. After being harassed for a couple of months, he finally came to me and asked me what he could do to get those boys off his back. I told him, he needed to become best friends with the biggest, meamest guy in school and make it known they were friends. One day, he came home telling me of a huge boy he'd met and that they started hanging around together. I asked him if he was still getting bullied and he said no, because the other kids were scared shitless of the boy he was hanging with. LOLOLOL! Just goes to show ya that evey now and then, when we least expect it, our kids will listen to what we're saying.


Kudos to you and your son...that's great that your son feels comfortable enough and knows he can come to you about problems he is having. My boy's are the same way they know they can come to me with anything and I am not going to freak out or go all adult on them as my youngest says..lol they know I will listen and discuss anything with them that they want to talk about.... apparently both of my boy's friends have figured this out as well because they all come to me now with issues they say they can't talk to their own parent's about...makes me feel good knowing I am helping a teen cope with an issue they may be having... but also makes me feel sad that the teen does not have a comfortable enough relationship with their own parent to ask for advice on something.

[Shadow]

When I was about 14 a neighor boy who lived two doors down from us was always picking on my younger brother. We'd all been out iceskating and were on our way home when this boy came up and began to hassle my brother yet again. This was a constant thing that went on and I was tired of it. I yelled at the kid to knock it off but he chose to continue with his actions. So.......on that note, while still in my skates, I swung out my leg and kicked that boy in his crotch. He fell to the ground crying like a baby. I said, "there, maybe next time you'll think before hassling someone." And we went on home. Out of the blue, that boy and his family up and moved and we never saw them again.

Many years later, when my own son was in high school, he was continually being bullied by a couple of other boys. My son was a pale boy with very blonde hair. He stuck out like a sore thumb and made a very good target. After being harassed for a couple of months, he finally came to me and asked me what he could do to get those boys off his back. I told him, he needed to become best friends with the biggest, meamest guy in school and make it known they were friends. One day, he came home telling me of a huge boy he'd met and that they started hanging around together. I asked him if he was still getting bullied and he said no, because the other kids were scared shitless of the boy he was hanging with. LOLOLOL! Just goes to show ya that evey now and then, when we least expect it, our kids will listen to what we're saying.

Now days schools take bullying very seriously and a lot of them have a no tolerance policy. Depending on the age of the child...it can be considered assault and a felony.