How many times have you read the Bible all of the way through?

[avatar4321]

Polls coming

[OCA]

Polls coming

In colege at ACU(Abilene Christian U.) religion(bible) classes were required and as an elective one year I took the class on Revelations............scared the hell out of me!

But no, have never read it all the way through, the old testament is dry and drones on and on about mostly useless stuff.

[KarlMarx]

Twice, and I am working on the third time this year. I intend to read it cover to cover each year for the rest of my life

[ConHog]

I'm waiting for the DVD to come out.

[revelarts]

http://www.thruthebible.org/site/c.irLMKXPGLsF/b.4104119/k.BE9D/Home.htm

"Welcome to Thru the Bible Our weekday Thru the Bible program takes the listener through the entire Bible in just five years, threading back and forth between the Old and New Testaments. Because we start over again with Genesis after we've concluded Revelation, you can "get aboard the Bible bus" at any time. If you stay with us for five years you won't miss any part of the Bible. This will be your safari through Scripture! There is no substitute for a study of the Word of God to make one a full-grown saint of God, well oriented for the great adventure of life."


I worked nights in a newspaper office mainly alone for about 7 years and went through this program nightly, clear, friendly and outstanding work. Also did other Bible study radio programs.

I've read the Bible maybe about 3-4 times. It's hard to say, I skip from book to book, never read it through in order but I do hit them all. All are intriguing, deeper than i'll ever get to. But you can "get" the jist if you really want to know.


2 JOHN
The elder To the lady chosen by God and to her children, whom I love in the truth—and not I only, but also all who know the truth— 2 because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:

3 Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Father’s Son, will be with us in truth and love.
4 It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us. 5 And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. 6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.

12 I have much to write to you, but I do not want to use paper and ink. Instead, I hope to visit you and talk with you face to face, so that our joy may be complete.
13 The children of your sister, who is chosen by God, send their greetings.














Hey we just read one whole book of the Bible, 2nd John, only 65 to go!

[gabosaurus]

I have read the Bible and the Quran all the through. :beer:

[Dilloduck]

I have read the Bible and the Quran all the through. :beer:

all through high school ?

[DragonStryk72]

Every single year for Theology class from 7-12.

[bullypulpit]

Some interesting historical detail and once you get past the metaphysical BS, a reasonably practical moral code. But too many fail to recognize the allegorical nature of the Bible and take it literally.

[KarlMarx]

Some interesting historical detail and once you get past the metaphysical BS, a reasonably practical moral code. But too many fail to recognize the allegorical nature of the Bible and take it literally.
You mean too many people fail to see the Bible as you see it.

[darin]

Some interesting historical detail and once you get past the metaphysical BS, a reasonably practical moral code. But too many fail to recognize the allegorical nature of the Bible and take it literally.

BP, why you gotta be a dick to folks who CARE about their faith? You are aboslutely in the same vein as the 'doom and gloom' type, 'camp-meeting', 'street-corner' preacher who spends his life bashing folks over the head with what they happen to believe.

[bullypulpit]

BP, why you gotta be a dick to folks who CARE about their faith? You are aboslutely in the same vein as the 'doom and gloom' type, 'camp-meeting', 'street-corner' preacher who spends his life bashing folks over the head with what they happen to believe.

Just callin' it as I see it.

[darin]

That's not an excuse to be mean.

[revelarts]

Here's a interesting chapter I read this morning:


Isaiah 45
1 “This is what the LORD says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him 
 and to strip kings of their armor, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut: 
2 I will go before you and will level the mountains; I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron. 
3 I will give you hidden treasures, riches stored in secret places, so that you may know that I am the LORD, the God of Israel, who summons you by name. 
4 For the sake of Jacob my servant, of Israel my chosen, I summon you by name and bestow on you a title of honor, though you do not acknowledge me. 

5 I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me, 
6 so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting people may know there is none besides me. I am the LORD, and there is no other. 
7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
8 “You heavens above, rain down my righteousness; let the clouds shower it down. Let the earth open wide, let salvation spring up, let righteousness flourish with it; I, the LORD, have created it.
9 “Woe to those who quarrel with their Maker, those who are nothing but potsherds among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, ‘What are you making?’ Does your work say, ‘The potter has no hands’? 
10 Woe to the one who says to a father, ‘What have you begotten?’ or to a mother, ‘What have you brought to birth?’
11 “This is what the LORD says— the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: Concerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands? 
12 It is I who made the earth and created mankind on it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshaled their starry hosts. 
13 I will raise up Cyrus in my righteousness: I will make all his ways straight. He will rebuild my city and set my exiles free, but not for a price or reward, says the LORD Almighty.”
14 This is what the LORD says: “The products of Egypt and the merchandise of Cush,[c] and those tall Sabeans— they will come over to you and will be yours; they will trudge behind you, coming over to you in chains. They will bow down before you and plead with you, saying, 
‘Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other god.’”
15 Truly you are a God who has been hiding himself, the God and Savior of Israel. 
16 All the makers of idols will be put to shame and disgraced; they will go off into disgrace together. 
17 But Israel will be saved by the LORD with an everlasting salvation; you will never be put to shame or disgraced, to ages everlasting.
18 For this is what the LORD says— he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited— he says: “I am the LORD, and there is no other. 
19 I have not spoken in secret, from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Jacob’s descendants, ‘Seek me in vain.’ I, the LORD, speak the truth; I declare what is right.
20 “Gather together and come; assemble, you fugitives from the nations. Ignorant are those who carry about idols of wood, who pray to gods that cannot save. 
21 Declare what is to be, present it— let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me.
22 “Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. 
23 By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear. 
24 They will say of me, ‘In the LORD alone are deliverance and strength.’” All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame. 
25 But all the descendants of Israel will find deliverance in the LORD and will make their boast in him.

[Abbey Marie]

Here's a interesting chapter I read this morning:


Isaiah 45
...
15 Truly you are a God who has been hiding himself, the God and Savior of Israel. 
16 All the makers of idols will be put to shame and disgraced; they will go off into disgrace together. 
17 But Israel will be saved by the LORD with an everlasting salvation; you will never be put to shame or disgraced, to ages everlasting.
...
22 “Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. 
23 By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear. 
24 They will say of me, ‘In the LORD alone are deliverance and strength.’” All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame. 
25 But all the descendants of Israel will find deliverance in the LORD and will make their boast in him.

I though the bold part was very interesting, especially in today's ever-growing anti-Israel climate.

[bullypulpit]

That's not an excuse to be mean.

So...a basic statement of fact is being mean?

[darin]

So...a basic statement of fact is being mean?

Not at all.

But your method of presenting the things you call 'facts' - your method of sharing your paradigm with others is over-the-top in terms of douchebaggery. You are VERY smart, seemingly accomplished in life - yet you choose to berate those with different opinions - SOLEY based upon their disagreement.

Look, I think you're antheist or something, right? That's fine. I'm happy for you. Yet, as an atheist you are a zealot. You are dogmatic in your faith. You shove your faith down the throats of others. You're the Tim Tebow of Athiests on this board.

You can choose to be nicer.

As an example. MissileMan. I'm pretty sure he and I differ on theology - yet, I can't recall him EVER getting ugly with me, or playing your passive-aggressive games.

here's what I mean about passive-aggressive:

You: "Those who believe in God are ignorant fools"
Me: Why you gotta be a dick?
You: "What do you mean? I'm just saying they are ignorant of (my) truth! it's FOOLISH for them to believe as they do!"

That's passive-aggressive. You tear into folks, then later try to soften it - when you are called on your meanness.

Make sense? BP, I like you. Hell, you can come to my house and F my sister. But for reals. You don't HAVE to be a slave to the arrogance you take in your chosen views.

Truth in Lending: I absolutely know those of Biblical (and other non-atheiest faiths) do the same thing. I don't excuse THEM, either. :)

:cheers2:

[Jess]

Never have read it all the way through, cover to cover, as they say. But since we were in church all the time and went to a Baptist school, I'd have to figure I've read it all at one time or the another.

[revelarts]

I though the bold part was very interesting, especially in today's ever-growing anti-Israel climate.
True, God will never give allow the Jews to disappear. He's punished them a time or two though. Being ANTI Israel is a bad place to be, but we should only support them in righteousness ourselves. Doing unto others and acting righteously toward all peoples seems to me.


but here's a chapter from this morning

Kinda apply to the bully Dmp conversation, esp the last half.

2 Peter chapter 1 1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
2 Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. 5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

12 So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have. 13 I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body, 14 because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15 And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things. 16 For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” 18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.

19 We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

[Black Diamond]

I think Numbers and Deuteronomy would be tough to get through.

[Jess]

I think Numbers and Deuteronomy would be tough to get through.
All the begats are better than prescription sleep aids. For real - you don't need Ambien. ;)

Of course, then there's the payoff when you get to Song of Solomon. Lol!

[Black Diamond]

All the begats are better than prescription sleep aids. For real - you don't need Ambien. ;)

Of course, then there's the payoff when you get to Song of Solomon. Lol!

Song of Solomon is good for other bedtime activities.

[Jess]

Song of Solomon is good for other bedtime activities.
:laugh:
That was the closest thing to sex any of us were getting, for sure.

[avatar4321]

I though the bold part was very interesting, especially in today's ever-growing anti-Israel climate.

I agree. Isaiah truly is a great prophet.

[avatar4321]

I think Numbers and Deuteronomy would be tough to get through.

Really? I find those to be incredibly fascinating. It's the genealogies in Chronicles that get boring...

[bullypulpit]

Not at all.

But your method of presenting the things you call 'facts' - your method of sharing your paradigm with others is over-the-top in terms of douchebaggery. You are VERY smart, seemingly accomplished in life - yet you choose to berate those with different opinions - SOLEY based upon their disagreement.

Look, I think you're antheist or something, right? That's fine. I'm happy for you. Yet, as an atheist you are a zealot. You are dogmatic in your faith. You shove your faith down the throats of others. You're the Tim Tebow of Athiests on this board.

You can choose to be nicer.

As an example. MissileMan. I'm pretty sure he and I differ on theology - yet, I can't recall him EVER getting ugly with me, or playing your passive-aggressive games.

here's what I mean about passive-aggressive:

You: "Those who believe in God are ignorant fools"
Me: Why you gotta be a dick?
You: "What do you mean? I'm just saying they are ignorant of (my) truth! it's FOOLISH for them to believe as they do!"

That's passive-aggressive. You tear into folks, then later try to soften it - when you are called on your meanness.

Make sense? BP, I like you. Hell, you can come to my house and F my sister. But for reals. You don't HAVE to be a slave to the arrogance you take in your chosen views.

Truth in Lending: I absolutely know those of Biblical (and other non-atheiest faiths) do the same thing. I don't excuse THEM, either. :)

:cheers2:

Too much sugar coating will rot yer teeth. But more to the point, the rank weeds of metaphysics have turned many otherwise sound philosophical systems into religions. And it is literalism that turns religions down dark paths better not traveled. Look to the Taliban in Afghanistan and the American Taliban made manifest in the form of Rick Santorum and his fellow travelers.

[KarlMarx]

Too much sugar coating will rot yer teeth. But more to the point, the rank weeds of metaphysics have turned many otherwise sound philosophical systems into religions. And it is literalism that turns religions down dark paths better not traveled. Look to the Taliban in Afghanistan and the American Taliban made manifest in the form of Rick Santorum and his fellow travelers.

And the problem with leaving things up for interpretation is that those interpretations are subject to the passions of the moment and the whims of Man. Comparing Rick Santorum to the Taliban just proves my point.

[bullypulpit]

And the problem with leaving things up for interpretation is that those interpretations are subject to the passions of the moment and the whims of Man. Comparing Rick Santorum to the Taliban just proves my point.

Rick Santorum and his fellow travelers are just as dogmatic and absolutist in their authoritarian interpretation of the Bible as the Taliban are in their interpretation of the Koran. It's the freat weakness of all revealed religions...any charlatan can claim to have the ear of their favorite invisible sky wizard and somone will follow them.

[ConHog]

Rick Santorum and his fellow travelers are just as dogmatic and absolutist in their authoritarian interpretation of the Bible as the Taliban are in their interpretation of the Koran. It's the freat weakness of all revealed religions...any charlatan can claim to have the ear of their favorite invisible sky wizard and somone will follow them.

And you really don't see the hypocrisy in your words?

How about THIS I respect your right to not believe and you reciprocate by respecting MY right to believe?

[RadiomanATL]

And the problem with leaving things up for interpretation is that those interpretations are subject to the passions of the moment and the whims of Man. Comparing Rick Santorum to the Taliban just proves my point.

So the earth is approximately 6,000 years old? That's the literal interpretation.

[ConHog]

So the earth is approximately 6,000 years old? That's the literal interpretation.

Not necessarily. God created a fully matured man and full matured animals. It's not impossible to imagine he also created a fully mature planet for us to live on.

That's my own personal belief.

[Jess]

Not necessarily. God created a fully matured man and full matured animals. It's not impossible to imagine he also created a fully mature planet for us to live on.

That's my own personal belief.

When we were in high school (religious), we had a guy come talk to us about how they explained the dinosaurs in connection with the Bible and all that. I don't remember a darned thing about it except his name was Kent Hovind. http://en.wikipedia.org /wiki/Kent_Hovind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind)

And we got to get out of class. :laugh:

[RadiomanATL]

Not necessarily. God created a fully matured man and full matured animals. It's not impossible to imagine he also created a fully mature planet for us to live on.

That's my own personal belief.

If he created it that way, then it would be ~6,000 years old, no?

[ConHog]

If he created it that way, then it would be ~6,000 years old, no?

Hard to say, let's say he created Adam as what we would today recognize as a 25 year old man. On his birthday was Adam 1 or 26? I mean we just don't know.

An all powerful God could certainly bend time to His will and create a one day old tree that had the rings of a 100 year old tree if He so wished.

[RadiomanATL]

Hard to say, let's say he created Adam as what we would today recognize as a 25 year old man. On his birthday was Adam 1 or 26? I mean we just don't know.

An all powerful God could certainly bend time to His will and create a one day old tree that had the rings of a 100 year old tree if He so wished.

I agree that He can do what He wants, but doing so would mean that it has been ~6,000 years since it was created, yes?

[ConHog]

I agree that He can do what He wants, but doing so would mean that it has been ~6,000 years since it was created, yes?

Ah, that is an ENTIRELY different question, then "how old is the Earth?"

What you're really asking is if the Bible time in is accurate, and IMO it is.

[RadiomanATL]

Ah, that is an ENTIRELY different question, then "how old is the Earth?"

What you're really asking is if the Bible time in is accurate, and IMO it is.

It's the same question.

If the earth was created 6,000 years ago, then it is 6,000 years old.

[ConHog]

It's the same question.

If the earth was created 6,000 years ago, then it is 6,000 years old.

It's the same question when constrained by the law of physics, but God is not so constrained.

God could create a giant Redwood which if cut open revealed 100 rings. Those rings of course represent one year of growth. Does that mean that tree is 100 years old as soon as God creates it, or is it just one day old?

[RadiomanATL]

It's the same question when constrained by the law of physics, but God is not so constrained.

God could create a giant Redwood which if cut open revealed 100 rings. Those rings of course represent one year of growth. Does that mean that tree is 100 years old as soon as God creates it, or is it just one day old?

From the moment of creation, that is how old it is.

Otherwise your argument could say that I am 2 years old or 2,000.

[Jess]

It's the same question.

If the earth was created 6,000 years ago, then it is 6,000 years old.
Like so?


Simply put, it came from the Bible. Of course, the Bible doesn’t say explicitly anywhere, “the earth is 6,000 years old.” Good thing it doesn’t; otherwise it would be out of date the following year. But we wouldn’t expect an all-knowing God to make that kind of a mistake.

God gave us something better. In essence, He gave us a “birth certificate.” For example, using my personal birth certificate, I can calculate how old I am at any point. It is similar with the earth. Genesis 1 says that the earth was created on the first day of creation (<cite class="bibleref">Genesis 1:1–5 (http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Genesis%201.1%E2%80%935)</cite>). From there, we can begin calculations of the age of the earth.
Let’s do a rough calculation to show how this works. The age of the earth can be estimated by taking the first 5 days of creation (from earth’s creation to Adam), then following the genealogies from Adam to Abraham in Genesis 5 and 11, then adding in the time from Abraham to today.
Adam was created on Day 6, so there were 5 days before him. If we add up the dates from Adam to Abraham, we get about 2,000 years, using the Masoretic Hebrew text of Genesis 5 and 11.3 (http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2007/05/30/how-old-is-earth#fnList_1_3) Whether Christian or secular, most scholars would agree that Abraham lived about 2,000 B.C. (4,000 years ago).
So a simple calculation is:

5 days
+ ~2000 years
+ ~4000 years
______________
~6000 years At this point, the first 5 days are negligible. Quite a few people have done this calculation using the Masoretic text (which is what most English translations are based on) and, with careful attention to the biblical details, have arrived at the same time-frame of about 6,000 years, or about 4,000 B.C. Two of the most popular, and perhaps the best in my opinion, are a recent work by Dr. Floyd Jones and a much earlier book by Archbishop James Ussher (1581–1656):

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2007/05/30/how-old-is-earth

[ConHog]

From the moment of creation, that is how old it is.

Otherwise your argument could say that I am 2 years old or 2,000.

Incorrect as you don't have the features of a 2000 year old, nor does history say you are 2.

Do you agree that rings inside a tree are a fair indicator of their age? Do you agree that God could create a one year old tree that contained 100 rings?

[gabosaurus]

Dinosaurs and The Bible ... best explanation EVER!!

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mrZcztxRquo" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

[Jess]

Big f-ing lizard. :laugh:

[ConHog]

Big f-ing lizard. :laugh:

I've been told that a few times.

[RadiomanATL]

Incorrect as you don't have the features of a 2000 year old, nor does history say you are 2.

Do you agree that rings inside a tree are a fair indicator of their age? Do you agree that God could create a one year old tree that contained 100 rings?

If God could create a tree as such, then he could create me any age he wishes.

All that matters for the frame of reference is the time since the creation.

Hence the question, is the earth 6,000 years old?

[Jess]

I've been told that a few times.

Uh huh. It's your story. You can tell it any way you like. :rolleyes:

[ConHog]

If God could create a tree as such, then he could create me any age he wishes.

All that matters for the frame of reference is the time since the creation.

Hence the question, is the earth 6,000 years old?

that's the point Radio, when He created Adam and Eve, they weren't newborn infants, they were adults. So you tell me, on their first "birthday" were they one, or were they say 25?

[RadiomanATL]

that's the point Radio, when He created Adam and Eve, they weren't newborn infants, they were adults. So you tell me, on their first "birthday" were they one, or were they say 25?

You seem to be totally misunderstanding.

How long ago since the earth was created? The semantic games don't apply.

[ConHog]

You seem to be totally misunderstanding.

How long ago since the earth was created? The semantic games don't apply.

I already answered that, 6K years give or take, but that is NOT the same thing as saying the Earth is 6,000 years old.

[RadiomanATL]

I already answered that, 6K years give or take, but that is NOT the same thing as saying the Earth is 6,000 years old.

For the purpose of the discussion, it is.

[ConHog]

For the purpose of the discussion, it is.

Sure, if the discussion is being made at a 6th grade level. I thought we were going for something more here.

[RadiomanATL]

Sure, if the discussion is being made at a 6th grade level. I thought we were going for something more here.

A straightforward answer to simple straightforward question does not mean that it is intellectually lower than other discussions where the primary goal is to play semantic games.

[ConHog]

A straightforward answer to simple straightforward question does not mean that it is intellectually lower than other discussions where the primary goal is to play semantic games.

Philosophical is not semantics.

The Earth in fact is NOT 6,000 years old.

[RadiomanATL]

Philosophical is not semantics.

The Earth in fact is NOT 6,000 years old.

How long ago was the earth created.


Simple question.

[ConHog]

How long ago was the earth created.


Simple question.

Look Radio, this conversation is obviously over your head, so I'm going to bow out now.

[RadiomanATL]

Look Radio, this conversation is obviously over your head, so I'm going to bow out now.

If you want to think that, be my guest.

[ConHog]

If you want to think that, be my guest.

Either you don't understand or you're being obtuse. Created =/= physical age because God simply is not bound by the law of Physics and can transcend time.

Either way, I'm done with this thread. have a good one.

[RadiomanATL]

Either you don't understand or you're being obtuse. Created =/= physical age because God simply is not bound by the law of Physics and can transcend time.

Either way, I'm done with this thread. have a good one.

Once the earth is created, it begins to have a physical age from that point forward.

It's not a hard concept to grasp. You're just making it hard, or intentionally dodging the issue.

[Intense]

Polls coming

1-2. How many times have I tried? 5000+. :lol: Favorite Chapters? I could not even count. ;) We have all of Eternity, right?


How long ago was the earth created.


Simple question.

How long was the first day? Did you get a video of it? :D

[RadiomanATL]

How long was the first day? Did you get a video of it? :D

I'm asking your opinion of how long ago it was created.


Me, I don't presume to know exactly, but I believe it was much farther back than 6,000 years ago.

[Intense]

I'm asking your opinion of how long ago it was created.


Me, I don't presume to know exactly, but I believe it was much farther back than 6,000 years ago.
;) I think the Universe is older than 6000 years too. Sometimes it's good to separate the meat from the bed children's bed time stories in the Bible. What if the first day was 50 million years long? Who is to say with authority? It is beyond me some of the things we argue over that are beyond reason. There are so many levels to the Bible, both real and imagined, there are so many hidden meanings, puzzles, Prophesies, yet to be revealed, each in it's time, each, for those they relate to, on God's terms, not ours. What about us? What about building Character, feeding Conscience, learning to crawl before we can walk, before we can run. There are Two Great Commandments Communicated Through Christ, right? Would you say we have mastered that yet? :lol: Have we mastered Sincerity of Heart? Clarity of Purpose?

[bullypulpit]

And you really don't see the hypocrisy in your words?

How about THIS I respect your right to not believe and you reciprocate by respecting MY right to believe?

I DO respect your right to believe. What I do not respect, however, is the stated intent of some to impose their beliefs upon others. It doesn't mater if they are Christian or Muslim or Jew, Hindu or Sikh, BUdhist or Daoist. When a leader of any faith or creed claims the their beliefs are the only ones to be right and all others to be wrong...They lose that respect not any right to claim such respect.

[RadiomanATL]

;) I think the Universe is older than 6000 years too. Sometimes it's good to separate the meat from the bed children's bed time stories in the Bible. What if the first day was 50 million years long? Who is to say with authority? It is beyond me some of the things we argue over that are beyond reason. There are so many levels to the Bible, both real and imagined, there are so many hidden meanings, puzzles, Prophesies, yet to be revealed, each in it's time, each, for those they relate to, on God's terms, not ours. What about us? What about building Character, feeding Conscience, learning to crawl before we can walk, before we can run. There are Two Great Commandments Communicated Through Christ, right? Would you say we have mastered that yet? :lol: Have we mastered Sincerity of Heart? Clarity of Purpose?

I agree, but those who take the bible literally would disagree. That's where my question stemmed from and where this recent discussion originated.

If the bible is taken literally, then the first day was not 50 million years long. It was 24 hours.

[bullypulpit]

Not necessarily. God created a fully matured man and full matured animals. It's not impossible to imagine he also created a fully mature planet for us to live on.

That's my own personal belief.

That is your belief CH, and I respect your right to hold it. But your belief is not born out by fact, and holding to beliefs not born out by fact is...well...irrational. But given human nature and human history, a rational human society will be a long time in coming...If it ever does.

[Intense]

I agree, but those who take the bible literally would disagree. That's where my question stemmed from and where this recent discussion originated.

If the bible is taken literally, then the first day was not 50 million years long. It was 24 hours.

There are enough contradictions in scripture Old Testament and New to steer away from 100% literal translation. You realize that the Bible is not God, that when you have conflict between written word and Conscience, you have a responsibility to go with Conscience. For example, a Church Elder using something in Scripture, out of context, to compel you to do his will. We each need to learn to live life through our own eyes, our own witness, right? What prepares us for that, V.S. what is hurtful to development? Training wheels, there is a point when we all need them, sometimes even revert back to them, they all have value, they all have limits too. There comes a time where we each must choose, that's with eyes opened and living in the present. Even Politically, does one stand as an Individual, on Conviction, Faith, orv surrender free will to belong, to fit in, to have a secure place in the hive? What does it matter that we reason how long the first day was when we weren't even there, when Free Will, Conscience, Individual Witness, is under attack every day, by every Tyrant since the beginning of time. If I were the Pope I would make Hans Christian Anderson a Saint for writing, "The Emperor's New Suit". http://hca.gilead.org.il/emperor.html

[Shadow]

Here's a interesting chapter I read this morning:


Isaiah 45
1 “This is what the LORD says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him 
 and to strip kings of their armor, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut: 
2 I will go before you and will level the mountains; I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron. 
3 I will give you hidden treasures, riches stored in secret places, so that you may know that I am the LORD, the God of Israel, who summons you by name. 
4 For the sake of Jacob my servant, of Israel my chosen, I summon you by name and bestow on you a title of honor, though you do not acknowledge me. 

5 I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me, 
6 so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting people may know there is none besides me. I am the LORD, and there is no other. 
7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
8 “You heavens above, rain down my righteousness; let the clouds shower it down. Let the earth open wide, let salvation spring up, let righteousness flourish with it; I, the LORD, have created it.
9 “Woe to those who quarrel with their Maker, those who are nothing but potsherds among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, ‘What are you making?’ Does your work say, ‘The potter has no hands’? 
10 Woe to the one who says to a father, ‘What have you begotten?’ or to a mother, ‘What have you brought to birth?’
11 “This is what the LORD says— the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: Concerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands? 
12 It is I who made the earth and created mankind on it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshaled their starry hosts. 
13 I will raise up Cyrus in my righteousness: I will make all his ways straight. He will rebuild my city and set my exiles free, but not for a price or reward, says the LORD Almighty.”
14 This is what the LORD says: “The products of Egypt and the merchandise of Cush,[c] and those tall Sabeans— they will come over to you and will be yours; they will trudge behind you, coming over to you in chains. They will bow down before you and plead with you, saying, 
‘Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other god.’”
15 Truly you are a God who has been hiding himself, the God and Savior of Israel. 
16 All the makers of idols will be put to shame and disgraced; they will go off into disgrace together. 
17 But Israel will be saved by the LORD with an everlasting salvation; you will never be put to shame or disgraced, to ages everlasting.
18 For this is what the LORD says— he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited— he says: “I am the LORD, and there is no other. 
19 I have not spoken in secret, from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Jacob’s descendants, ‘Seek me in vain.’ I, the LORD, speak the truth; I declare what is right.
20 “Gather together and come; assemble, you fugitives from the nations. Ignorant are those who carry about idols of wood, who pray to gods that cannot save. 
21 Declare what is to be, present it— let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me.
22 “Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. 
23 By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear. 
24 They will say of me, ‘In the LORD alone are deliverance and strength.’” All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame. 
25 But all the descendants of Israel will find deliverance in the LORD and will make their boast in him.

I like passages 9,10 and 11,

[RadiomanATL]

There are enough contradictions in scripture Old Testament and New to steer away from 100% literal translation. You realize that the Bible is not God, that when you have conflict between written word and Conscience, you have a responsibility to go with Conscience. For example, a Church Elder using something in Scripture, out of context, to compel you to do his will. We each need to learn to live life through our own eyes, our own witness, right? What prepares us for that, V.S. what is hurtful to development? Training wheels, there is a point when we all need them, sometimes even revert back to them, they all have value, they all have limits too. There comes a time where we each must choose, that's with eyes opened and living in the present. Even Politically, does one stand as an Individual, on Conviction, Faith, orv surrender free will to belong, to fit in, to have a secure place in the hive? What does it matter that we reason how long the first day was when we weren't even there, when Free Will, Conscience, Individual Witness, is under attack every day, by every Tyrant since the beginning of time. If I were the Pope I would make Hans Christian Anderson a Saint for writing, "The Emperor's New Suit". http://hca.gilead.org.il/emperor.html

I agree, and think much like you do. I was simply responding to those who think the bible is to be taken 100% literally.

[Black Diamond]

How long was the first day? Did you get a video of it? :D
Evening and morning made the first day. sounds clear to me.


Evening and morning made the first day. sounds clear to me.
Unless you want to say it took a month, year, or whatever for the Earth to spin once around.

[revelarts]

I agree, and think much like you do. I was simply responding to those who think the bible is to be taken 100% literally.

It's funny, people like to say others shouldn't take the bible literally but seem to understand what they don't like there literally enough.
But it's really to broad to say Others take the Bible literally, I mean like any Book, or speech, the natural rules apply. If it's poetry then it's figurative if its presented as history then it's history it's parable then it parabolic (?). if the guy writes in the 1st lines of the the book

LUKE 1 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke%201&version=NIV#fen-NIV-24895a)] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught....

Words like "EYEWITTNESSES" "carefully investigated" and "orderly account" would imply (to an honest person) that the person means for you to understand what he's about to write is are literal events. seems to me one who have to show where they meant otherwise. rather than assume it's not literal based on the their own personal views 2000 years removed of what they "believe" happened, not being there or really studying the matter very seriously.

And How is an honest person suppose to read this type of thing?


2 Peter chapter 1
. 16 For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” 18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.

19 We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

If they are not Stories they must be true/literal or at least Peter thought they were Literally true. And MEANT that you take it literally. I'm not sure if I should believe or take more seriously Peter or Bully? hmm...

People who take the bible literally are being honest about how the writer meant it to be taken. Literal where it's speaks about events and figuratively where it's being figurative, poetic or spiritually allegorical. The Context make that pretty clear in most cases. the problem of "interpretation" often only comes in when people don't believe or like the accounts or the teachings.



"12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied....12

.... 32 If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus with no more than human hopes, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised,

“Let us eat and drink,
for tomorrow we die.”



Looks like Paul is looking for a literal resurrection and that he's been preaching a Jesus with a body coming back from the dead.

As he says, if not we are LYING, and we may as well eat and Drink ,that is Party because we all gonna just die anyway.

It's these verses and others that make me wonder what some are talking about when they say well Jesus and the Bible means Mainly to teach us good morals, Paul and Peter says it's not worth it if there's no resurrection and after life. All that morals and woozy spiritual life any ol way to god/s right here and now is BS it seems. It's not worth it and not real unless the afterlife is rock solid Literal.




John 14
1 Let not your heart be troubled: believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I come again, and will receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go, ye know the way.
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; how know we the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one comes unto the Father, but by me.

[RadiomanATL]

It's funny, people like to say others shouldn't take the bible literally but seem to understand what they don't like there literally enough.
But it's really to broad to say Others take the Bible literally, I mean like any Book, or speach, the natural rules apply. If it's poetry then it's figurative if its presented as history then it's history it's parable then it parabolic (?). if the guy writes in the 1st lines of the the book

LUKE 1 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke%201&version=NIV#fen-NIV-24895a)] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught....

Words like "EYEWITTNESSES" "carefully investigated" and "orderly account" would imply (to an honest person) that the person means for you to understand what he's about to write is are literal events. seems to me one who have to show where they meant otherwise. rather than assume it based on the there own personal views what they "believe" happened not being there and all.

And How is an honest person suppose to read this type of thing?


If they are not Stories they must be true/literal or at least Peter thought they were Literally true. I'm not sure if I should believe or take more seriously Peter or Bully? hmm...





Looks like Paul is looking for a literal resurrection and that he's been preaching a Jesus with a body coming back from the dead.

As he says, if not we are LYING, and we may as well eat and Drink ,that is Party because we all gonna just die anyway.

It's these verses and others that make me wonder what some are talking about when they say well Jesus and the Bible means Mainly to teach us good morals, Paul and Peter says it's not worth it if there's no resurrection and after life. All that morals and woozy spiritual life any ol way to god/s right here and now is BS it seems. It's not worth it and not real unless the afterlife is rock solid Literal.

I don't know what you are trying to say to me here.

But here's the way I view it. God (as Jesus) liked to teach us in parables and metaphors. Neither of which are a literal concept. I see no reason to believe, nor has He given me one, that God has not been teaching us that way since He made us. Prior to Jesus. Therefore that includes some of the stories/concepts in the bible.

[revelarts]

I don't know what you are trying to say to me here.

But here's the way I view it. God (as Jesus) liked to teach us in parables and metaphors. Neither of which are a literal concept. I see no reason to believe, nor has He given me one, that God has not been teaching us that way since He made us. Prior to Jesus. Therefore that includes some of the stories/concepts in the bible.
Sure I mentioned Jesus taught in Metaphors and Parables, But even in many of those he was using those to explain solid realities. Unless everything he said was gasous nothings, or platitudes with no foundation in literal reality. just mental exercises to calm nerves.
things like "...you will suffer persecution.." I wish that wasn't literal but it has been for 2000 years. maybe a few other of his saying are literal as well?

And many of Jesus's teachings have no power without his death and resurrection, it must be literal. and Paul says if it's not he, Paul, is lying. And if just a story "you are still dead in your sins"

the passages i've point out clearly show that peter and Paul understood the resurrection as literal, God Speaking from heaven as literal and the Old testament as directed by God.

I'm not sure why "you see no "reason". when it plainly staring at you in the words of scripture.

[RadiomanATL]

Sure I mentioned Jesus taught in Metaphors and Parables, But even in many of those he was talking about solid realities. Unless everything he said was gasous nothings, or platitudes with no foundation in literal reality. just mental exercises to calm nerves.
things like "...you will suffer persecution.." I wish that wasn't literal but it has been for 2000 years. maybe a few other of his saying are literal as well?

And Jesus's teachings have no power without his death and resurrection, they must be literal. and Paul says if it's not we are lying. And if just a story "you are still dead in your sins"

the passage i've point out clearly show that peter and Paul understood the resurrection as literal, God Speaking from heaven as literal and the Old testament as directed by God.

I'm not sure why "you see no "reason". when it plainly staring at you in the words of scripture.

Obviously you do not understand what I am trying to say.

I am not saying that everything in the bible is a parable or a metaphor. I am saying some parts of it are.

[revelarts]

Obviously you do not understand what I am trying to say.

I am not saying that everything in the bible is a parable or a metaphor. I am saying some parts of it are.

Looks like we misunderstood each other, because i said that earlier as well.

[RadiomanATL]

Looks like we misunderstood each other, because i said that earlier as well.

All good. :cool:

[fj1200]

So the earth is approximately 6,000 years old? That's the literal interpretation.

No, that's the literal english version.

[RadiomanATL]

No, that's the literal english version.

The literal version should be the same across all translations. If the English version tells something different than the original Hebrew, Latin and Aramaic then it's not just a different translation. It's the wrong translation.

[fj1200]

The literal version should be the same across all translations. If the English version tells something different than the original Hebrew, Latin and Aramaic then it's not just a different translation. It's the wrong translation.

I don't know if I'd say "wrong" but you're right when someone looks at the KJ version and says the earth was created in 6 "days" misses the point when I believe the original word more correctly translates to "eras." An era of course which could be millions of years. Or when God "breathed" life into Adam; was that in an instant or was it a moment of evolution where man gained consciousness. Who knows?

[RadiomanATL]

I don't know if I'd say "wrong" but you're right when someone looks at the KJ version and says the earth was created in 6 "days" misses the point when I believe the original word more correctly translates to "eras." An era of course which could be millions of years. Or when God "breathed" life into Adam; was that in an instant or was it a moment of evolution where man gained consciousness. Who knows?

If the original intent was "era", and it was translated as "day"....the I personally would call that a wrong translation :dunno:

[fj1200]

If the original intent was "era", and it was translated as "day"....the I personally would call that a wrong translation :dunno:

If you're trying to fix the age of the earth then yes.

Would you be a strict constructionist constitutionally speaking as well? :beer:

[RadiomanATL]

If you're trying to fix the age of the earth then yes.

Would you be a strict constructionist constitutionally speaking as well? :beer:

Stricter than some, not as strict as others.

I'm an issue by issue type of guy. On some issues people will call me a liberal. On others I would be called a conservative. Overall, I consider myself a conservative.

[fj1200]

Stricter than some, not as strict as others.

I'm an issue by issue type of guy. On some issues people will call me a liberal. On others I would be called a conservative. Overall, I consider myself a conservative.

Aah, a fence-sitter. We have quite a few of those around I hear.


I kid, I kid...

[RadiomanATL]

Aah, a fence-sitter. We have quite a few of those around I hear.


I kid, I kid...

I've been called worse.

I have strong feelings on individual issues. So I don't think I would call it fence sitting. Just that I don't believe in B simply because I believe in A.

[LuvRPgrl]

I DO respect your right to believe. What I do not respect, however, is the stated intent of some to impose their beliefs upon others. When a leader of any faith or creed claims the their beliefs are the only ones to be right and all others to be wrong....

soooo, they arent allowed to criticize your version, but you can criticize theirs.

[avatar4321]

Rick Santorum and his fellow travelers are just as dogmatic and absolutist in their authoritarian interpretation of the Bible as the Taliban are in their interpretation of the Koran. It's the freat weakness of all revealed religions...any charlatan can claim to have the ear of their favorite invisible sky wizard and somone will follow them.

Any charlatan could claim to have the ear of God. But could any charlatan convince God to support them?


1-2. How many times have I tried? 5000+. :lol: Favorite Chapters? I could not even count. ;) We have all of Eternity, right?

I am thinking in Eternity we will have much more advanced stuff to deal with. I could be wrong. But much of the Bible is for instruction in this life. After this life is over and we are raised from the dead, there may be alot more that we havent even begun to comprehend.

Ive been inquiring around in this because it seems that our society is so completely ignorant of the Bible. And the Bible literally is the foundation of our Republic. The society of our Founders was educated extensively in the Bible. They knew the scriptures. They practices the virtues taught in the Bible. If we are going to Restore the Republic, I'm convinced we have to do so by having the same Foundation they did.

And I don't just mean in the knowledge area. But in the virtue area. We need to be a people committed to living our faiths to a greater degree than we have in the past. We have to keep the Commandments.

i know some may doubt, but Christ has promised us that if we do the doctrines we shall know whether they are from God or not. Christ has also promised us that if we seek we shall find, if we ask, we shall recieve, and if we knock it shall be given unto us.

So I would invite those who believe to recommit themselves. To study the scriptures. and choose to live them. I am sure there is one thing in your life that you are doing that yo know isn't in line with God. I ask you to commit yourself to change. Exercise faith in God. Pray to him for power to change. And make and effort. It may not happen immediately but I can promise you that He will give you power to change after the trial of your faith.

For those who doubt, I would invite you to experiment on the Word. Do as Christ said and do the doctrines to find out whether they are from the Father or not. But you need to do this with an open mind. Accept the possibility that it could be true. Accept that their could be a God and then exercise faith by doing something.

I've done this myself. That's the only reason I know anything about God. There was a time I was completely ignorant of God. But I decided to experiment on the word. I decided that if there was a God and if He was all powerful and all knowing as the scriptures testified. And that He had revealed Himself to men as the scriptures testified, that He could do so with me as well. I didnt have a clue how He would let me know. I just decided to exercise faith that He could because I realized that that truly was the only way I could know anything.

Experiment with prayer. Make a commitment to say evening and morning prayer every day. Get on your knees. Speak out loud and just talk with God in the name of the Son. Be sincere. Be humble. And be consistant. And as Christ said, if you do this, you will know for yourself that it's of God.

When you have a testimony in prayer do likewise with studying the scriptures. Practicing virtue. Practice being honest in your daily life even when it's uncomfortable. Practice forgiving others in your daily life. Practice being humble and being Kind. Etc.

You have absolutely nothing to lose if you try it. If you are right, it doesn't matter. But if you are wrong and if by practicing these things you learn that, you can make corrections in your life as needed. You will be happier. You will learn things you never considered before. Trust me, it's amazing.

I challenge anyone willing to do this.

[Intense]

The literal version should be the same across all translations. If the English version tells something different than the original Hebrew, Latin and Aramaic then it's not just a different translation. It's the wrong translation.

Nice thought, but I don't think it is possible. There are just things that conflict too much. St Jerome did a great job with the Vulgate Translation, it did serve well in reigning in Tangents. Still, there are things that every translation misses, or accents differently. It is good to compare the different translations in group study. Just a thought.


I am thinking in Eternity we will have much more advanced stuff to deal with. I could be wrong. But much of the Bible is for instruction in this life. After this life is over and we are raised from the dead, there may be alot more that we havent even begun to comprehend.

I think we will as much be overwhelmed in the next as in this, with wonder. :) It's all good.