A comparison

[CSM]

As it says ... I rest my case!

Got this off facebook.



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[ConHog]

As it says ... I rest my case!

Got this off facebook.



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NEITHER of those women look 51. For one that is a compliment, for the other, not so much.

[CSM]

NEITHER of those women look 51. For one that is a compliment, for the other, not so much.

Exactly!

[Noir]

What a pathetic comparison.

When it comes to the point where you have to compare one woman who looks made up to the point were she could be on the Red Carpet to a movie premier.

And the other was a picture taken while she was in a "celebrity" game show were the contestants had to live in a Jungle for 2 weeks with no make-up, proper showers etc and some of the games involved over those few weeks included swimming with eels, mud-baths etc.

And in any case, what someones beauty has to do with the morality of meat-eating i don't know.

As an aside, Mcwhatever, is a horrible woman, who spends her life telling other people how to live theirs, and she isn't even a Dietician, just a "nutritionist'. As Frakie Boyle said about her 'If, as she says, 'you are what you eat' then at some point she's ate a right miserable bitch" ^,^

[ConHog]

What a pathetic comparison.

When it comes to the point where you have to compare one woman who looks made up to the point were she could be on the Red Carpet to a movie premier.

And the other was a picture taken while she was in a "celebrity" game show were the contestants had to live in a Jungle for 2 weeks with no make-up, proper showers etc and some of the games involved over those few weeks included swimming with eels, mud-baths etc.

And in any case, what someones beauty has to do with the morality of meat-eating i don't know.

As an aside, Mcwhatever, is a horrible woman, who spends her life telling other people how to live theirs, and she isn't even a Dietician, just a "nutritionist'. As Frakie Boyle said about her 'If, as she says, 'you are what you eat' then at some point she's ate a right miserable bitch" ^,^



:lol:

Can I ask you. Have you really never tried a delicious steak, or some mouth watering bacon? Or a hamburger? Or how about a hamburger topped with bacon.............. MMMMMMMMMMMMM ba con.

[CSM]

What a pathetic comparison.

When it comes to the point where you have to compare one woman who looks made up to the point were she could be on the Red Carpet to a movie premier.

And the other was a picture taken while she was in a "celebrity" game show were the contestants had to live in a Jungle for 2 weeks with no make-up, proper showers etc and some of the games involved over those few weeks included swimming with eels, mud-baths etc.

And in any case, what someones beauty has to do with the morality of meat-eating i don't know.

As an aside, Mcwhatever, is a horrible woman, who spends her life telling other people how to live theirs, and she isn't even a Dietician, just a "nutritionist'. As Frakie Boyle said about her 'If, as she says, 'you are what you eat' then at some point she's ate a right miserable bitch" ^,^

I'm thinking that regardless of circumstance, there just isn't enough lipstick for one of those pigs.

[Noir]

Dara O'Brian on McKeith xD

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[Noir]

I'm thinking that regardless of circumstance, there just isn't enough lipstick for one of those pigs.

Hold the press! Some woman are not as beautiful as other woman!!!

I also guess if i find a beautiful vegan, and a not so beautiful meat-eater, then that's an argument for Veganism? Nonsense.

[CSM]

Hold the press! Some woman are not as beautiful as other woman!!!

I also guess if i find a beautiful vegan, and a not so beautiful meat-eater, then that's an argument for Veganism? Nonsense.

Wow! We are a bit snippy this morning ain't we! You eat whatever ya want, I don't care!

[Noir]

Wow! We are a bit snippy this morning ain't we! You eat whatever ya want, I don't care!

I've had to discuss this picture sooooo many times its beyond boring. Sorry ^,^

[CSM]

I've had to discuss this picture sooooo many times its beyond boring. Sorry ^,^

Well, I tried to read your mind before posting it but there was nothing there. JUST KIDDING!


I didn't view it as a commentary on veganism/vegetarianism; I viewed as a commentary about two people, one of whom makes a LOT of money on telling other people how to live. In fact, I didn't think about your reaction to the post at all; not that you aren't important to me and all that!

[ConHog]

Noir did you miss my question?

Have you ever ate meat at all?

[revelarts]

mmmm Nigelea mmmm

cough

um nutrition is an odd thing I don't think it all figured out yet. but on average for most folks seems like greener rawers probably better but not the only way to go IMO.
there's this 72 year vegan woman who won a contest i'd like to see the other contestants.
but some cool stuff below

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raw eggs every morning

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[Noir]

Noir did you miss my question?

Have you ever ate meat at all?

I have, I ate meat until my mid-teens.

Well I say ate meat, I never ate pork, beef, turkey, fish (except cod) duck etc because I didn't like the taste. The only meat I really ate was chicken. So turning vegetarian was very easy.

Going vegan was a different story, I loved milk, cheese, custard, eggs and so on. However it was only difficult for the first few weeks, as I've now found substitues that taste just the same (except for milk, most are too sweet but still nice)

[ConHog]

I have, I ate meat until my mid-teens.

Well I say ate meat, I never ate pork, beef, turkey, fish (except cod) duck etc because I didn't like the taste. The only meat I really ate was chicken. So turning vegetarian was very easy.

Going vegan was a different story, I loved milk, cheese, custard, eggs and so on. However it was only difficult for the first few weeks, as I've now found substitues that taste just the same (except for milk, most are too sweet but still nice)

Is it a moral issue with you or a health issue? I mean in either case I think you're weird but eh we are all weird and that is our right.

[Noir]

Is it a moral issue with you or a health issue? I mean in either case I think you're weird but eh we are all weird and that is our right.

Just a moral one.

Edit - I also have to say most people subscribe to the 'its weird' notion. This is made all the more odd because people don't find it weird when the non-meat eating is qualified by a religious belief. i.e. if my reason for not eating Pork was because i was Jewish, people would think that normal, but not eating pork because i consider the slaughter and suffering of an animal as unnecessary, well thats just weird 0,o

[ConHog]

Just a moral one.

Edit - I also have to say most people subscribe to the 'its weird' notion. This is made all the more odd because people don't find it weird when the non-meat eating is qualified by a religious belief. i.e. if my reason for not eating Pork was because i was Jewish, people would think that normal, but not eating pork because i consider the slaughter and suffering of an animal as unnecessary, well thats just weird 0,o


No, I think the Jews are weird to. And the Muslims.

really that's what's wrong with the Middle East, they just all need to eat a good bacon sandwich.

[Noir]

No, I think the Jews are weird to. And the Muslims.

really that's what's wrong with the Middle East, they just all need to eat a good bacon sandwich.

Fair enough, personally i think it weird that you don't care for the suffering of others because they're not human, such is life.

[revelarts]

Just a moral one.

Edit - I also have to say most people subscribe to the 'its weird' notion. This is made all the more odd because people don't find it weird when the non-meat eating is qualified by a religious belief. i.e. if my reason for not eating Pork was because i was Jewish, people would think that normal, but not eating pork because i consider the slaughter and suffering of an animal as unnecessary, well thats just weird 0,o

I can respect most anyone's eating habits based on their religious beliefs, personal ethics or personal taste even.

however I think there's a debate to made though, concerning the religious vs atheistic and ethical positions. While both probably have some purely ethical concerns they come from a bit of a different place.

Jew says 1st
I don't eat pork becuase God said so. then there may be other ancillary but important health and spiritual lessons.
the Jew is also told to treat animals well. Animals were included in the sabbath day of rest for instance. No cruelty to animals was/is deemed ethical.
Where as, it seem to me at least, an Atheist has a much longer way to go to get any moral position. Especially if you come at it from an evolutionary perspective. If survival of the fittest is at play it seems like an atheist has to construct a rational that explains any desire to care about other species. And any explanation would on it's face be entirely theoretical. Not based on any empirical or really testable facts. Just notions of ethics extrapolated out from humans to animals and drawing an imaginary line in the sand at animals while dismissing similar ethics for plants which are also living things.

That's not to say that i don't think everyone has moral feelings that they rightful sense a duty to express toward man and 2ndly toward animals. I just don't think atheism and science open a road for any solid reasons for the good and high morals of the kind your talking about. But they do just the opposite.

[ConHog]

Fair enough, personally i think it weird that you don't care for the suffering of others because they're not human, such is life.

You act as if I support torturing animals. I do not. I support butchering animals which are in fact raised to be butchered. I don't even hunt.

Regardless, if the don't want to be eaten, they shouldn't taste so good. :laugh2:

Oh, and plants have as much feelings as a cow.

[Noir]

I can respect most anyone's eating habits based on their religious beliefs, personal ethics or personal taste even.

however I think there's a debate to made though, concerning the religious vs atheistic and ethical positions. While both probably have some purely ethical concerns they come from a bit of a different place.

Jew says 1st
I don't eat pork becuase God said so. then there may be other ancillary but important health and spiritual lessons.
the Jew is also told to treat animals well. Animals were included in the sabbath day of rest for instance. No cruelty to animals was/is deemed ethical.
Where as, it seem to me at least, an Atheist has a much longer way to go to get any moral position. Especially if you come at it from an evolutionary perspective. If survival of the fittest is at play it seems like an atheist has to construct a rational that explains any desire to care about other species. And any explanation would on it's face be entirely theoretical. Not based on any empirical or really testable facts. Just notions of ethics extrapolated out from humans to animals and drawing an imaginary line in the sand at animals while dismissing similar ethics for plants which are also living things.

That's not to say that i don't think everyone has moral feelings that they rightful sense a duty to express toward man and 2ndly toward animals. I just don't think atheism and science open a road for any solid reasons for the good and high morals of the kind your talking about. But they do just the opposite.

Well this post goes all over the place. But bits that stick out -

Its sad to see that the Jews don't listen to their holy book, when it comes to animal welfare.

As for the rest it comes down to a "without god everything is permissible" vs "Only with God is everything permissible"

I would argue the latter, presumably you would the former, and off on a circle we'd go. What i will say however is that its interesting that you say imaginary lines are drawn between animals and plants, yet don't mention the imaginary lines that most (believers in a god or not) draw between some animals and other animals.

Edit - As an aside, i personally think its weak when someone does something just for their religion, i.e. a Jew doesn't eat pork because of religious belief, however, if that Jew should lose his faith, does that suddenly make eating Pork alight? If so it shows how weak his moral structure is, if not they're showing how their belief is nothing to do with their morality.

[revelarts]

Well this post goes all over the place. But bits that stick out -

Its sad to see that the Jews don't listen to their holy book, when it comes to animal welfare.

As for the rest it comes down to a "without god everything is permissible" vs "Only with God is everything permissible"

I would argue the latter, presumably you would the former, and off on a circle we'd go.
Well you seem upset later that the religion doesn't make it's impermissiblty stick. you can't have it both ways, everythings permissible with God but Pork eating which is "weak" . clearly not everything is permissible with God so I'm not sure how you can honestly come to that "everythings permissible" idea Noir while you complain the Jews don't listen to there holy book.

while in contrast you'll tell me that there is no religion or fixed morals anywhere but via culture via thin mysterious evolutionary urges. I can't really berate with any substance by saying that your not following your cultural upbringing or your deep evolutionary survival urges , if you suddenly decide to eat meat.



What i will say however is that its interesting that you say imaginary lines are drawn between animals and plants, yet don't mention the imaginary lines that most (believers in a god or not) draw between some animals and other animals.
I just said that God made the line between men and animals and then behind that the Jews understand God has ordained other divisions as well. You think they are imaginary that's fine. Just pointing out the why on the religious end. I'm just wondering why VEGANS draw the line at plants, it seem imaginary if the reason for veganism is respect for "life" an honest enough question right?



Edit - As an aside, i personally think its weak when someone does something just for their religion, i.e. a Jew doesn't eat pork because of religious belief, however, if that Jew should lose his faith, does that suddenly make eating Pork alight? If so it shows how weak his moral structure is, if not they're showing how their belief is nothing to do with their morality.
there's a lot there, here's my understanding
Eating pork was never a high moral issue for Jews i)in the sense you seem to mean it) t's a spiritual and health issue. having more to do with his relation to God and himself than to others, or to pigs. it was/is also an outward expression of a unque communal relationship between God and the Jewish people.
so does it make it alright for him to eat pork , well no. But if he lost his faith the not eating of pork is just like removing a a toenail after your foots been cut off. the real damage has been done when that faith is gone several other items are ancillary and only have meaning under a larger body of experience.

Now if you say hey the jewish guy wanted to kill his boss but didn't do it becuase he's a believes its wrong before of God then he loses his faith and decides -what the heck there is no god I hate my boss I can kill him whose to say i'm right or wrong.- well is it wrong for him to kill his boss?
well I say Yes absolutely. Gods reality or moral laws don't change becuase some guy does or doesn't believe.

[Noir]

Well you seem upset later that the religion doesn't make it's impermissiblty stick. you can't have it both ways, everythings permissible with God but Pork eating which is "weak" . clearly not everything is permissible with God so I'm not sure how you can honestly come to that "everythings permissible" idea Noir while you complain the Jews don't listen to there holy book.

while in contrast you'll tell me that there is no religion or fixed morals anywhere but via culture via thin mysterious evolutionary urges. I can't really berate with any substance by saying that your not following your cultural upbringing or your deep evolutionary survival urges , if you suddenly decide to eat meat.

I just said that God made the line between men and animals and then behind that the Jews understand God has ordained other divisions as well. You think they are imaginary that's fine. Just pointing out the why on the religious end. I'm just wondering why VEGANS draw the line at plants, it seem imaginary if the reason for veganism is respect for "life" an honest enough question right?


there's a lot there, here's my understanding
Eating pork was never a high moral issue for Jews i)in the sense you seem to mean it) t's a spiritual and health issue. having more to do with his relation to God and himself than to others, or to pigs. it was/is also an outward expression of a unque communal relationship between God and the Jewish people.
so does it make it alright for him to eat pork , well no. But if he lost his faith the not eating of pork is just like removing a a toenail after your foots been cut off. the real damage has been done when that faith is gone several other items are ancillary and only have meaning under a larger body of experience.

Now if you say hey the jewish guy wanted to kill his boss but didn't do it becuase he's a believes its wrong before of God then he loses his faith and decides -what the heck there is no god I hate my boss I can kill him whose to say i'm right or wrong.- well is it wrong for him to kill his boss?
well I say Yes absolutely. Gods reality or moral laws don't change becuase some guy does or doesn't believe.

I was not clear with my argument of "without god everything is permissible" vs "Only with God is everything permissible" (probably more through familiarity of the concept than anything else) so i'll briefly detail it.

Without God anything is possible; Whats to stop me finding it okay to murder, rape, cheat, lie etc if there is no absolute good or evil (god) by which all deeds can be measured. Also no afterlife punishment (by way of a universal sense of justice)

With God anything is possible; A good current example of this is the groups of Mulsims who believe that they are in the right, and will be rewarded for, killing themselves and as many others as is possible. How many suicide bombers are from the atheist community? There is a logical pathway from believing that your god is telling you to do something, and doing something. In the same way, if you look to the OT, Abrham was prepared to kill his son because god told him to, and *if* god had not of stopped him, and let him kill his son, he would of done the "right" thing, because it was gods will, and gods will can not be to do evil.

Personally i find the 'With god anything is possible' to be a much stronger argument, though you may not. and it doesn't take much thought to be able to put the same argument onto a discussion on meat eating.