White House sides with TSA in Rand Paul standoff

[jimnyc]

The White House, the 2 Pauls & the TSA. This should be an interesting thread!


The White House is standing by the Transportation Security Administration in its standoff with Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) and his father, Republican presidential candidate Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas).

The elder Paul called the TSA a "police state" Monday after Rand Paul was reportedly detained by TSA after he refused to take a pat-down from TSA officials at the Nashville International Airport.

White House press secretary Jay Carney said Monday that he didn't have any reaction to Paul's "police state" comments.

But Carney sided with the TSA saying, "I think it is absolutely essential that we take necessary actions to ensure that air travel is safe."

http://thehill.com/blogs/transportation-report/tsa/205813-white-house-sides-with-tsa-in-rand-paul-standoff


Ron Paul Slams “Out Of Control Police State” After Rand Paul Detained By TSA (http://www.infowars.com/ron-paul-slams-out-of-control-police-state-after-rand-paul-detained-by-tsa/)
GOP presidential candidate Ron Paul issued the following statement on his campaign website this afternoon, following his son Rand’s treatment at the hands of the TSA in Nashville.

“The police state in this country is growing out of control. One of the ultimate embodiments of this is the TSA that gropes and grabs our children, our seniors, and our loved ones and neighbors with disabilities. The TSA does all of this while doing nothing to keep us safe.

“That is why my ‘Plan to Restore America,’ in additional to cutting $1 trillion dollars in federal spending in one year, eliminates the TSA.

“We must restore the freedom and respect for liberty that once made American the greatest nation in human history. I am deeply committed to doing that as President of the United States.”


http://www.infowars.com/ron-paul-slams-out-of-control-police-state-after-rand-paul-detained-by-tsa/

[ConHog]

The White House, the 2 Pauls & the TSA. This should be an interesting thread!



http://thehill.com/blogs/transportation-report/tsa/205813-white-house-sides-with-tsa-in-rand-paul-standoff



http://www.infowars.com/ron-paul-slams-out-of-control-police-state-after-rand-paul-detained-by-tsa/


Eliminate the TSA in one year?

Rev just found his candidate. The rest of shake our head at more RP lunacy.

Oh, SHOCK that the White House sides with whoever is vs RP . :laugh:

[revelarts]

Be careful what you wish for, the Tsa is not your friend. they'll be at as many places as they can be soon enough, with backing from Obama and most other candidates. If that's what you all want chuckle away. ConH maybe being in the police and doing no knocks for 10 years makes you think police treating people like crap (i mean hand cuffing, wrestling to the ground and gun waving at them for their safety) anytime anywhere is as American as apple pie but some few of us think it's fascist totalitarianism, plain and simple.

but hey laugh it up folks.

[ConHog]

Be careful what you wish for, the Tsa is not your friend. they'll be at as many places as they can be soon enough, with backing from Obama and most other candidates. If that's what you all want chuckle away. ConH maybe being in the police and doing no knocks for 10 years makes you think police treating people like crap (i mean hand cuffing, wrestling to the ground and gun waving at them for their safety) anytime anywhere is as American as apple pie but some few of us think it's fascist totalitarianism, plain and simple.

but hey laugh it up folks.

Rev, that's not true and you know it. I am for throwing cops who abuse people in prison.

[Gaffer]

The TSA is protecting us from Rand Paul? Since when does a US Senator need to be patted down before he boards a plane?

Ron Paul is right, the TSA does need to be shut down and security turned over to private agencies with the ability to profile. Ron Paul is still a nut. Over the next ten months or so watch how the TSA grows and starts doing more in areas not affiliated with transportation.

[Thunderknuckles]

Hey, I'm with the Paul's on this one...ditch the TSA.

[ConHog]

The TSA is protecting us from Rand Paul? Since when does a US Senator need to be patted down before he boards a plane?

Ron Paul is right, the TSA does need to be shut down and security turned over to private agencies with the ability to profile. Ron Paul is still a nut. Over the next ten months or so watch how the TSA grows and starts doing more in areas not affiliated with transportation.

I agree with the profiling Gaffer, but since they can't (thanks liberal pussies) why should a US Senator be exempt from the randomness of pat downs? Seems to me that exempting them would only give them further reason to feel above the rest of us.

[revelarts]

Rev, that's not true and you know it. I am for throwing cops who abuse people in prison.

not trying to put you in bad position ConH, but what if the cops are just obeying the bad laws, is that abuse? the TSA is bad law, and piss poor policing, I mean searching grannys panties and U.S. senators is just plain STUPID. The unconstitutional Law/system that puts the cops/TSA in the positions of imposing abuses of rights by default. You seem to think that the the TSA is a necessary GOOD with a few bad apples or a few minor bad policies gliches that should be worked out internally and put up with by a grateful public. Is that right? Nothing personal ConH but on this issue it seems we are on opposite side of a watershed here.
the TSA needs to go, it's been around for less than 10 years, lets kill it before the cancer spreads like other money and liberty sapping bureaucracies of the federal gov't.

GO RON PAUL!! and RAND PAUL!!!

[ConHog]

not trying to put you in bad position ConH, but what if the cops are just obeying the bad laws, is that abuse? the TSA is bad law, and piss poor policing, I mean searching grannys panties and U.S. senators is just plain STUPID. The unconstitutional Law/system that puts the cops/TSA in the positions of imposing abuses of rights by default. You seem to think that the the TSA is a necessary GOOD with a few bad apples or a few minor bad policies gliches that should be worked out internally and put up with by a grateful public. Is that right? Nothing personal ConH but on this issue it seems we are on opposite side of a watershed here.
the TSA needs to go, it's been around for less than 10 years, lets kill it before the cancer spreads like other money and liberty sapping bureaucracies of the federal gov't.

GO RON PAUL!! and RAND PAUL!!!

im gathering you are not talking about illegal laws but rather about laws that YOU feel are not good law?

If a cop is ordered to do something ILLEGAL and he does it, yes he should go to jail, as should whoever ordered him to. IF however it's just a policy like pat downs that you don't agree with , or something like that, no a cop shouldn't go to jail for doing their jobs.

NO, I do NOT feel the TSA should be handling fixing their issues internally. I would like to see an independent oversight committee. One that had REAL power to implement changes AND one that was not subject to political sway. THAT could turn the TSA into a fairly transparent provider of security at airports, and YES I believe airports is the ONLY place they belong.

OR I wouldn't even care to see the TSA disappear completely and the FBI take over securing airports and treat it as a federal police issue. Complete with profiling and all other tools the FBI has at it's disposal.

I just believe that the government has to be in charge of certain things, that doesn't mean I just live with however shoddy they want to do the job.

[Abbey Marie]

Be careful what you wish for, the Tsa is not your friend. they'll be at as many places as they can be soon enough, with backing from Obama and most other candidates. If that's what you all want chuckle away. ConH maybe being in the police and doing no knocks for 10 years makes you think police treating people like crap (i mean hand cuffing, wrestling to the ground and gun waving at them for their safety) anytime anywhere is as American as apple pie but some few of us think it's fascist totalitarianism, plain and simple.

but hey laugh it up folks.

Rev, I have a sincere question: Do you disagree with any of Ron Paul's policies/platform/beliefs?

[revelarts]

Rev, I have a sincere question: Do you disagree with any of Ron Paul's policies/platform/beliefs?

Yes I do, It'd take a while to run through the details but I'm not gung ho on the whole gold standard thing. I'd go slow on the Harder drugs legalization. I don't think the Free markets is enough of a regulator and that there does need to be a federal regs in some areas, and I think he could push harder on the pro life front, I think it is a federal issue not a just a state issue. There are other things but his major points, the budget, really bringing home the troops, the wars, the fed, reining in outta control homeland faux security, burn dept of education, the IRS, Just respecting the constitution and the bill of rights in away that makes the Washington elites lose their bowels and rank n file Ds & Rs think seriously, I'm there 100%

[ConHog]

Yes I do, It'd take a while to run through the details but I'm not gung ho on the whole gold standard thing. I'd go slow on the Harder drugs legalization. I don't think the Free markets is enough of a regulator and that there does need to be a federal regs in some areas, and I think he could push harder on the pro life front, I think it is a federal issue not a just a state issue. There are other things but his major points, the budget, really bringing home the troops, the wars, the fed, reining in outta control homeland faux security, burn dept of education, the IRS, Just respecting the constitution and the bill of rights in away that makes the Washington elites lose their bowels and rank n file Ds & Rs think seriously, I'm there 100%

Fair enough answer.

[fj1200]

OR I wouldn't even care to see the TSA disappear completely and the FBI take over securing airports and treat it as a federal police issue. Complete with profiling and all other tools the FBI has at it's disposal.

I just believe that the government has to be in charge of certain things, that doesn't mean I just live with however shoddy they want to do the job.

Because engaging in commerce IS a police issue. :facepalm99:

[ConHog]

Because engaging in commerce IS a police issue. :facepalm99:

It's a LITTLE more involved than that, and you know it.

Do you also object to the state police patrolling the highways? Or a better analogy, do you object to the Department of Transportation overseeing the safety of transportation? Both are police forces.

[fj1200]

It's a LITTLE more involved than that, and you know it.

Do you also object to the state police patrolling the highways? Or a better analogy, do you object to the Department of Transportation overseeing the safety of transportation? Both are police forces.

That's because you make/wish it so. The police don't inspect my car as I get on the on-ramp.

[ConHog]

That's because you make/wish it so. The police don't inspect my car as I get on the on-ramp.

Depending on what state you live in , they inspect it BEFORE they let you on the onramp.

And they certainly do inspect big rigs on a regular basis.

Oh, and I could and WOULD argue that shooting a radar beam at a car is in fact inspecting that car.

[revelarts]

im gathering you are not talking about illegal laws but rather about laws that YOU feel are not good law?

If a cop is ordered to do something ILLEGAL and he does it, yes he should go to jail, as should whoever ordered him to. IF however it's just a policy like pat downs that you don't agree with , or something like that, no a cop shouldn't go to jail for doing their jobs.
Well , who else has to FEEL it's not good law before you think it's Illegal? I can read a stop sign it's the law to stop. I can read the constitution, I have the right to not to be searched without probably cuase or a warrant. the constitution is the SUPREME law of the land. BAM the TSA is committing a crime. No amount of congressional mumbo jumbo, bad SCOUS precedents, or gov't FEELING they need the authority change the clear intent.




NO, I do NOT feel the TSA should be handling fixing their issues internally.
GREAT
I would like to see an independent oversight committee. One that had REAL power to implement changes AND one that was not subject to political sway. THAT could turn the TSA into a fairly transparent provider of security at airports,
I'd like to see the TSA abolished
and YES I believe airports is the ONLY place they belong.
I'd like to see the TSA abolished

OR I wouldn't even care to see the TSA disappear completely and the FBI take over securing airports and treat it as a federal police issue.
Complete with profiling and all other tools the FBI has at it's disposal.
thats Better I agree
I just believe that the government has to be in charge of certain things, that doesn't mean I just live with however shoddy they want to do the job.
I don't believe the federal gov't has to be in charge of much at all

[ConHog]

Well , who else has to FEEL it's not good law before you think it's Illegal? I can read a stop sign it's the law to stop. I can read the constitution, I have the right to not to be searched without probably cuase or a warrant. the constitution is the SUPREME law of the land. BAM the TSA is committing a crime. No amount of congressional mumbo jumbo, bad SCOUS precedents, or gov't FEELING they need the authority change the clear intent.

Are you okay with sobriety checkpoints?

[fj1200]

Depending on what state you live in , they inspect it BEFORE they let you on the onramp.

And they certainly do inspect big rigs on a regular basis.

Oh, and I could and WOULD argue that shooting a radar beam at a car is in fact inspecting that car.

That would be a dumb argument. Your speed is not private.

I didn't say that they didn't inspect big rigs, I said they don't inspect my car before I drive it. I'm OK with the states having safety regulations and performing safety inspections but they're not sitting at the warehouse watching every box go in the truck.

[ConHog]

That would be a dumb argument. Your speed is not private.

I didn't say that they didn't inspect big rigs, I said they don't inspect my car before I drive it. I'm OK with the states having safety regulations and performing safety inspections but they're not sitting at the warehouse watching every box go in the truck.

BINGO and what you have on you when you board a flight is not private either. It affects EVERYONE on that flight, and untold number of people on the ground.

Oh, and the DoT can and does randomly open and inspect trucks on the highway.

[Nukeman]

Are you okay with sobriety checkpoints?NOPE!!! or Seatbelt checkpoints either!!!!!!! Illegal search and all that.. If you aren't suspected than they shouldnt be able to search you simple as that.

Being secure in your person and belongings, but hey the TSA has done away with all that.....

[ConHog]

NOPE!!! or Seatbelt checkpoints either!!!!!!! Illegal search and all that.. If you aren't suspected than they shouldnt be able to search you simple as that.

Being secure in your person and belongings, but hey the TSA has done away with all that.....

Seat belt checkpoints I can agree with, that's dumb. Sobriety checkpoints however, the safety factor of many over rides the minor inconvenience if you happen to come across one. Same with the TSA. And what's more you have CHOSEN to subject yourself to the TSA when you CHOOSE to fly. Which is another reason I object to them being anywhere BUT airports.

[revelarts]

Are you okay with sobriety checkpoints?

NOPE!!! or Seatbelt checkpoints either!!!!!!! Illegal search and all that.. If you aren't suspected than they shouldnt be able to search you simple as that.

Being secure in your person and belongings, but hey the TSA has done away with all that.....
Agreed



Seat belt checkpoints I can agree with, that's dumb. Sobriety checkpoints however, the safety factor of many over rides the minor inconvenience if you happen to come across one. Same with the TSA. And what's more you have CHOSEN to subject yourself to the TSA when you CHOOSE to fly. Which is another reason I object to them being anywhere BUT airports.
the minor inconvenience as you call it is "breaking the law". don't you think we should obey the law?!!!!
Do you want to break the law becuase YOU FEEL like it's safer to break the laws, the supreme law of the Land?... are you some kinda anarchist!?! What if everyone decided to break the law for their so called a safety becuase its only a small inconvenience to others?! would you go for that?

[ConHog]

Agreed



the minor inconvenience as you call it is "breaking the law". don't you think we should obey the law?!!!!
Do you want to break the law becuase YOU FEEL like it's safer to break the laws, the supreme law of the Land?... are you some kinda anarchist!?! What if everyone decided to break the law for their so called a safety becuase its only a small inconvenience to others?! would you go for that?

It isn't breaking the law dude. It is enforcing a law that you don't believe is just, but that isn't the same thing as breaking the law.

The SCOTUS has ruled on the legality of sobriety check points. If you don't like that then you DO have the option of endorsing RP who wishes to change the law , what you don't have is legal grounds to accuse them of being illegal.

[fj1200]

BINGO and what you have on you when you board a flight is not private either. It affects EVERYONE on that flight, and untold number of people on the ground.

Oh, and the DoT can and does randomly open and inspect trucks on the highway.

Bingo what? That you've convinced yourself that expanding the police state because of the "safety" argument is acceptable? With that argument you have no defense for when the TSA moves beyond the airports even though you've stated:


... and YES I believe airports is the ONLY place they belong.

Congratulations, you've just argued yourself into a box.

[Gaffer]

VPER is TSA's mobile unit. They show up at train stations and federal buildings. That's NOT the airport. Federal buildings are not transportation related. Searching train passengers as they disembark is not providing security. It's searching and harassment.

It won't be long until they move onto the streets.

[ConHog]

VPER is TSA's mobile unit. They show up at train stations and federal buildings. That's NOT the airport. Federal buildings are not transportation related. Searching train passengers as they disembark is not providing security. It's searching and harassment.

It won't be long until they move onto the streets.

And I completely object to them doing so.

Agreeing that they have jurisdiction in ONE area doesn't mean I wholesale believe they should be able to do anything they like.

[Abbey Marie]

Are you okay with sobriety checkpoints?

If Paul has his way, we will need to expand these from basically alcohol checks, to heroin, coke, meth, etc.

That's if he doesn't think such checkpoints are an abridgement of our Constitutional freedoms, which is where you were I assume going with this.

One thing about a Paul Presidency- it will keep the USSC hopping.

[revelarts]

And I completely object to them doing so.

Agreeing that they have jurisdiction in ONE area doesn't mean I wholesale believe they should be able to do anything they like.

But the unconstitutional law you want them to obey says they can go where ever they like apparently ConH.
What you believe the laws says doesn't make a difference. you should just obey when they stop you a the post office for a minor inconvenience of a search. what's your problem? why do want you to cause trouble, it's for your safety, sounds like you plan on going to cuase truoble. Most people won't think much of it. If a little but of unconstitutional stuff will make us safe why not a lot more? no ones attacked a train sttion since those viper teams have been stopping by. no Bus stations ethier. They must be really working, detering the communis... I mean terrorist.

the problem is the camel has his head and neck in the tent already. you want to say he should have stopped at his head. I say he should have never been in the tent at all.

the quote from Madison is perfect here
It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents.

[LuvRPgrl]

Rev, that's not true and you know it. I am for throwing cops who abuse people in prison.

cmon rev, you know CH is more in favor of just having fun tasering people.

[LuvRPgrl]

It's a LITTLE more involved than that, and you know it.

Do you also object to the state police patrolling the highways? Or a better analogy, do you object to the Department of Transportation overseeing the safety of transportation? Both are police forces.

analogy, ok, state police patrolling the highways
NO, I dont object to the TSA having planes fly around and patrol the airways.

and I actually do favor private enterprise police forces. The idea that it cant work has been drilled into people and none of them think it through, it can work, and better.

[LuvRPgrl]

//
BINGO and what you have on you when you board a flight is not private either. It affects EVERYONE on that ?flight, and untold number of people on the ground.

Oh, and the DoT can and does randomly open and inspect trucks on the highway.

so, what is tsa doing now that would have stopped 9/11?

[fj1200]

^Nothing that knowledge alone of 9/11 wouldn't have stopped.

[LuvRPgrl]

^Nothing that knowledge alone of 9/11 wouldn't have stopped.

precisely