Teem moms unsure how they got pregnant [Archive] - Debate Policy

gabosaurus

01-19-2012, 10:53 PM

I read this report this morning and was astounded. Nearly a third of pregnant teens in this wide ranging study were unsure how pregnancy occurred. Many fell for age old lines (you get pregnant the first time you have sex, or using various positions, or if they were below a certain age) or thought they could have sex and prevent pregnancy by doing various things.
The culprit, as always, is lack of sex education. Parents demand the right to tell their kids about sex and then fail to do so. Or else they teach the wrong things.
Then there are the parents who refuse to allow their kids to use birth control, believing it will "encourage promiscuity." Which is dead wrong.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6102a1.htm?s_cid=mm6102a1_w

I had a case in point earlier this week. A 16 year old girl wanted to know how she could avoid telling her parents that she was pregnant. She didn't want an abortion, but she didn't want her parents to know she was pregnant. I agreed to talk with her parents. Which was tough.
Dad was beyond angry. Denied girl was pregnant until shown the positive test (she always denied she was having sex). Then blamed the school for promoting promiscuity. Then wanted the guy arrested.
I asked him if he or mom had ever talked to his kid about sex. Nope, no sex talk. It was replaced by a (forced) promise that daughter never have sex. Which last until girls come under the spell of a cute guy.

darin

01-20-2012, 05:45 AM

One fundamental difference between you and me, Gabby - the 'shame' or the 'problem' here is NOT the kids getting pregnant. The problem is your being okay with children having sex. The 'having the sex' is the damaging part of the story. Kids having sex - no pun intended - seriously screws up the kid emotionally/mentally. The culprit, obviously, is lack of parenting coupled with piss-poor choices of those having sex. Educated promiscuity is no 'safer' than ignorant.

PostmodernProphet

01-20-2012, 07:17 AM

is there really a 16 year old, or 12 year old, out there who doesn't know what a condom is for?......or that there is a reason for making them?.......I suspect the "I don't know how I got pregnant" claim is akin to "I don't know how I had an accident" after the tree jumped into the road and hit their car.........

Shadow

01-20-2012, 09:14 AM

is there really a 16 year old, or 12 year old, out there who doesn't know what a condom is for?......or that there is a reason for making them?.......I suspect the "I don't know how I got pregnant" claim is akin to "I don't know how I had an accident" after the tree jumped into the road and hit their car.........

I would have to agree. "I don't know" is a teenagers favorite phrase for when they don't want to talk about something. So...what did you do in school today?..." I don't know...can't remember". Whatever made you and Sally decide to shave your eyebrows off?... "I don't know". Why do you keep doing your homework,but not turn it in? " I don't know". They "know"...they just don't know exactly how to explain their actions to you...or they just don't want to. :laugh::laugh:

Jess

01-20-2012, 09:27 AM

I would have to agree. "I don't know" is a teenagers favorite phrase for when they don't want to talk about something. So...what did you do in school today?..." I don't know...can't remember". Whatever made you and Sally decide to shave your eyebrows off?... "I don't know". Why do you keep doing your homework,but not turn it in? " I don't know". They "know"...they just don't know exactly how to explain their actions to you...or they just don't want to. :laugh::laugh:

My son did that. He's six. Is that the harbinger of doom or what? Gunny was NO help whatsoever in that situation, btw.

In Darth Zanious' defense, he didn't shave off the entire eyebrow on each side - only the middle of each. He thought a tree branch might have scraped them off. 3163

As to the topic at hand, each of my stepdaughters were having sex by age 15, having learned about it at school and having had their mother talk to them about it. The eldest was put on birth control at age 12. Neither of them got pregnant until they were 17 or 18 and they both knew exactly how it happened.

Personally, I don't buy the "I didn't know". They start doing puberty talks/sex ed in 5th or 6th grade - even in a pretty conservative, redneck, small-town school like ours. Besides, it's all over the TV, movies and don't forget peers. Kids know. They just don't want to take the blame.

gabosaurus

01-20-2012, 09:46 AM

As to the topic at hand, each of my stepdaughters were having sex by age 15, having learned about it at school and having had their mother talk to them about it. The eldest was put on birth control at age 12. Neither of them got pregnant until they were 17 or 18 and they both knew exactly how it happened.

I can't say anything about having having sex at 15 because I did it. But I hope you were not OK with your stepdaughters getting pregnant while they were teens. Why is this OK, even if they knew how it happened? The idea of birth control is to prevent pregnancy.

The problems with some families is that they don't believe in birth control. Or they believe that putting their kids on birth control signals permission to start having sex.

Sorry darrin, but kids are going to have sex whether you like it or not. They just won't tell you about it. I don't approve of it. But it is going to happen.

darin

01-20-2012, 09:59 AM

Sorry darin, but kids are going to have sex whether you like it or not. They just won't tell you about it. I don't approve of it. But it is going to happen.

That's a different topic.

ConHog

01-20-2012, 11:04 AM

I would be willing to bet a substantial amount of money that there are no normal 15 year olds in the US who don't know what causes pregnancy.

Younger than that? Who knows.

I must have been the most ignorant 12 year old around to, getting some pussy hadn't even occurred to me at that age.

Thunderknuckles

01-20-2012, 11:05 AM

Nearly a third of pregnant teens in this wide ranging study were unsure how pregnancy occurred. Many fell for age old lines (you get pregnant the first time you have sex, or using various positions, or if they were below a certain age) or thought they could have sex and prevent pregnancy by doing various things.
The culprit, as always, is lack of sex education.

That article is just one excuse after another by teenagers that refuse to take responsibility for their actions. I refuse to believe that since I was a teenager kids have somehow forgotten how you get pregnant. But just in case, here's all of the details you need to know:

If you are an egg producing female and allow a male to insert his penis into your vagina and he ejects sperm while doing so, you may become pregnant.

There, no need for costly "sex education" courses and all of that crap. Just a simple reiteration of natural fact that humans have understood for millenia - with the apparent exception of modern day teenagers of course.

ConHog

01-20-2012, 11:12 AM

That article is just one excuse after another by teenagers that refuse to take responsibility for their actions. I refuse to believe that since I was a teenager kids have somehow forgotten how you get pregnant. But just in case, here's all of the details you need to know:

If you are an egg producing female and allow a male to insert his penis into your vagina and he ejects sperm while doing so, you may become pregnant.

There, no need for costly "sex education" courses and all of that crap. Just a simple reiteration of natural fact that humans have understood for millenia - with the apparent exception of modern day teenagers of course.

I believe a woman can get pregnant even without ejection. No wait, make that I know they can.

However, like you I refuse to believe teens don't know this. Many just don't care.

PostmodernProphet

01-20-2012, 11:16 AM

he didn't shave off the entire eyebrow on each side - only the middle of each.

it was Morse Code.....

trobinett

01-20-2012, 12:15 PM

Wait a minute, don't the Catholics believe in getting pregnant without copulating ?:poke:

Gunny

01-20-2012, 12:26 PM

I read this report this morning and was astounded. Nearly a third of pregnant teens in this wide ranging study were unsure how pregnancy occurred. Many fell for age old lines (you get pregnant the first time you have sex, or using various positions, or if they were below a certain age) or thought they could have sex and prevent pregnancy by doing various things.
The culprit, as always, is lack of sex education. Parents demand the right to tell their kids about sex and then fail to do so. Or else they teach the wrong things.
Then there are the parents who refuse to allow their kids to use birth control, believing it will "encourage promiscuity." Which is dead wrong.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6102a1.htm?s_cid=mm6102a1_w

I had a case in point earlier this week. A 16 year old girl wanted to know how she could avoid telling her parents that she was pregnant. She didn't want an abortion, but she didn't want her parents to know she was pregnant. I agreed to talk with her parents. Which was tough.
Dad was beyond angry. Denied girl was pregnant until shown the positive test (she always denied she was having sex). Then blamed the school for promoting promiscuity. Then wanted the guy arrested.
I asked him if he or mom had ever talked to his kid about sex. Nope, no sex talk. It was replaced by a (forced) promise that daughter never have sex. Which last until girls come under the spell of a cute guy.

BS. WHERE is there a lack of sex education? Anyone with abrain can just watch TV and learn WAY more than they need to know. They teach sex education where I currently live. Redneckville, Nowhere. I learned it back in 1972 in Redneckville, TX.

And, as "one of them parents", I had my daughter the pill by the time she was 14. And I'm a conservative who thinks kids shouldn't be taught this crap. But then, I also think if the left was under control, kids wouldn't be exposed to it as early in life as they are. But no, y'all have some "Right" to put that shit in the media and/or on TV and just tell everyone else to not let their kids watch it so long as you get what YOU want.

If the perverted shit ain't there, then NO ONE is exposed to it. Get it? Oh yeah, you don't. You want to blame conservative parents and indoctrinate children and make them sexually aware in the 1st grade instead of keeping your sexual perversions where they used to be and where they STILL belong.

The fact is, this person is lying trying to cover her ass . She should have covered it correctly to begin with.

Wait a minute, don't the Catholics believe in getting pregnant without copulating ?:poke:

Sitting on a toilet seat in a public restroom will do it.:laugh:

ConHog

01-20-2012, 12:30 PM

I'll tell you what's wrong. No fear.

We feared the dad's of the girls we were fucking back in high school. That alone was enough of a reason to wear a fucking condom. Not to mention the fear of becoming a teenage dad, which nowadays some kids think it's cute to be a baby momma/daddy at 16 or whatever.

Shit I guarantee my dad or one of the girl's dads would have killed me if I got a girl pregnant in high school.

Thunderknuckles

01-20-2012, 12:48 PM

Shit I guarantee my dad or one of the girl's dads would have killed me if I got a girl pregnant in high school.
That's the problem with this country. We turned away from the good ole days of Taliban style honor killings!

:smileyflag:

Gunny

01-20-2012, 12:54 PM

That's the problem with this country. We turned away from the good ole days of Taliban style honor killings!

:smileyflag:

Try making a comparison all you like ... it worked.

The fact that's missing is, we were taught responsibility. The left has been looking for a way out of that word ever since. The OP is a perfect example. You stick your d*ck in it, you made it. You open your legs and let that d*ck in, you're just as responsible.

The left wants to and has back-doored personal responsibility by designating an unborn human being by the name "zygote", trying to depersonalize it ever since, and having some stupid-ass judge say it's okay to kill that unborn human being so long as you can call it something else.

Thunderknuckles

01-20-2012, 12:59 PM

Try making a comparison all you like ... it worked.

The fact that's missing is, we were taught responsibility. The left has been looking for a way out of that word ever since. The OP is a perfect example. You stick your d*ck in it, you made it. You open your legs and let that d*ck in, you're just as responsible.

The left wants to and has back-doored personal responsibility by designating an unborn human being by the name "zygote", trying to deporsalize it ever since, and having some stupid-ass judge say it's okay to kill that unborn human being so long as you can call it something else.
Easy big guy, I was ribbing ConHog :)

ConHog

01-20-2012, 01:15 PM

Easy big guy, I was ribbing ConHog :)

That wasn't ribbed for my pleasure. :laugh2:

For the real though, it isn't just teen sex, it's everything, kids aren't afraid of their parents at all anymore. And that translates into no respect.

We need some good old fashioned Bill Cosby " I brought you into this world, and I can't take you back out of it" brought back into things.

Jess

01-21-2012, 11:37 AM

I can't say anything about having having sex at 15 because I did it. But I hope you were not OK with your stepdaughters getting pregnant while they were teens. Why is this OK, even if they knew how it happened? The idea of birth control is to prevent pregnancy.

The problems with some families is that they don't believe in birth control. Or they believe that putting their kids on birth control signals permission to start having sex.

Sorry darrin, but kids are going to have sex whether you like it or not. They just won't tell you about it. I don't approve of it. But it is going to happen.

I was not ok with them having sex that young but had no say-so in it.

My personal feeling was that getting pregnant when they were teens wasn't cool either. The older's one's mom solved that by convincing her, taking her to and paying for her abortion the first time she got pregnant. The girl was an emotional mess after that and got pregnant again within a year or 18 months, I think. She kept the second baby - who is now almost 3 years old.

The younger one texted me one night, asking how soon a preggo test would work because the condom she and her bf were using broke. She ended up not being pregnant that time and swore she'd be much more careful after that. IIRC, she was pregnant within sex months. She finished HS, went to beauty school and worked part-time while pregnant with her baby. I give her props for having the guts enough to do it all so she can provide a better life for her child.

I don't have the magic answer, just as no one else does. My sex education was growing up on a farm and a book my mom gave me when puberty started. Our church, school and family just said "don't do it." That was actually not too tough. My horse was more important than some stupid guy. :cool:

BUT you can have some screwed-up ideas about sex as an adult when raised like that.

bullypulpit

01-21-2012, 12:11 PM

I read this report this morning and was astounded. Nearly a third of pregnant teens in this wide ranging study were unsure how pregnancy occurred. Many fell for age old lines (you get pregnant the first time you have sex, or using various positions, or if they were below a certain age) or thought they could have sex and prevent pregnancy by doing various things.
The culprit, as always, is lack of sex education. Parents demand the right to tell their kids about sex and then fail to do so. Or else they teach the wrong things.
Then there are the parents who refuse to allow their kids to use birth control, believing it will "encourage promiscuity." Which is dead wrong.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6102a1.htm?s_cid=mm6102a1_w

I had a case in point earlier this week. A 16 year old girl wanted to know how she could avoid telling her parents that she was pregnant. She didn't want an abortion, but she didn't want her parents to know she was pregnant. I agreed to talk with her parents. Which was tough.
Dad was beyond angry. Denied girl was pregnant until shown the positive test (she always denied she was having sex). Then blamed the school for promoting promiscuity. Then wanted the guy arrested.
I asked him if he or mom had ever talked to his kid about sex. Nope, no sex talk. It was replaced by a (forced) promise that daughter never have sex. Which last until girls come under the spell of a cute guy.

 This is, in large part, results from the lack of fact based, age appropriate sex-education in schools, coupled with the failure of parents to realistically address issues of sex and sexuality with their children. And when parents abdicate this responsibility to address these issues in a realistic and responsible manner, and they are unwilling to cede this responsibility to our schools, they should be prepared to accept the consequences of their failure.

Studies have shown that, “…[I]the overwhelming weight of the evidence demonstrates that programs focusing on sexuality along with a discussion of the use of condoms and contraception do not increase sexual activity, as some had feared. In fact, a number of programs that encouraged both goals for sexually active youth actually delayed or reduced the frequency of sexual intercourse…” (Kirby, 2007).

But given the monumental disdain of the religious right and other right wing social conservatives in this country have for experimentally verified, evidence-based practice, the facts will make no difference in this matter. They will continue to insist on the efficacy of demonstrably failed “abstinence only” programs which comport with their own repressive, unrealistic dogma.

Reference:

Kirby, D. (2007). Abstinence, Sex, and STD/HIV Education Programs for Teens: Their Impact on Sexual Behavior, Pregnancy, and Sexually, Transmitted Disease. [I]Annual Review of Sex Research, 18, 143-177.

Try making a comparison all you like ... it worked.

The fact that's missing is, we were taught responsibility. The left has been looking for a way out of that word ever since. The OP is a perfect example. You stick your d*ck in it, you made it. You open your legs and let that d*ck in, you're just as responsible.

The left wants to and has back-doored personal responsibility by designating an unborn human being by the name "zygote", trying to depersonalize it ever since, and having some stupid-ass judge say it's okay to kill that unborn human being so long as you can call it something else.

I'm down with the first paragraph. Your second is just irrational dogma for another thread.

MtnBiker

01-21-2012, 04:46 PM

There is a lacking fact in sexual education that the left cringes at everytime it is mentioned. Abstinence works every time it is used.

ConHog

01-21-2012, 05:13 PM

There is a lacking fact in sexual education that the left cringes at everytime it is mentioned. Abstinence works every time it is used.

This is true, but must be tempered with some reality.

IE we PREFER you be abstinent, but IF you are going to engage in such activity, THIS is the steps you take to protect yourselves.

MtnBiker

01-21-2012, 05:25 PM

Sure, I did not mention anything about one method being exclusive in respect to education.

ConHog

01-21-2012, 05:29 PM

Sure, I did not mention anything about one method being exclusive in respect to education.

I was just adding on to what you said moreso than speaking to what you said.:2up:

BUT does speak to the problem , as usual most people are a one or the other group, instead of taking the sensible approach.

PS I hate that we have to waste valuable time at school teaching sex ed, but most parents just don't want to deal with it.

bullypulpit

01-21-2012, 07:22 PM

There is a lacking fact in sexual education that the left cringes at everytime it is mentioned. Abstinence works every time it is used.

 The fact that you and your fellow travelers fail to mention is that where “abstinence only” education was the only choice presented to adolescents does nothing to change their behavior regarding sexual activity. In fact, “…[I]abstinence-only education as a state policy is ineffective in preventing teenage pregnancy and may actually be contributing to the high teenage pregnancy rates in the U.S…” (Stanger-Hall K, 2011). Another study concludes this choice is, “…scientifically and ethically flawed. Although abstinence from vaginal and anal intercourse is theoretically fully protective against pregnancy and disease, in actual practice, abstinence-only programs often fail to prevent these outcomes…” (Santelli J, 2005). Never mind that much of the information provided under the AOE programs established under the Bush administration is, regarding the prevention of pregnancy, HIV/AIDS and other STD’s are “[I]incomplete” if not outright “misleading”. (Santelli J, 2005). AOE can have a positive impact only if presented within the context accurate and age appropriate information on sex and sexuality.

References:

Santelli J, Ott M, Lyon M, Rogers J, Summers D, Schliefer R. (2005). Abstinence and abstinence-only education: A review of U.S. policies and programs. Journal of Adolescent Health, 72-81.
Stanger-Hall K, Hall D. (2011, October 14). Abstinence-Only Education and Teen Pregnancy Rates: Why We Need Comprehensive Sex Education in the U.S. Retrieved from PLoS one: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0024658

DragonStryk72

01-21-2012, 09:56 PM

I read this report this morning and was astounded. Nearly a third of pregnant teens in this wide ranging study were unsure how pregnancy occurred. Many fell for age old lines (you get pregnant the first time you have sex, or using various positions, or if they were below a certain age) or thought they could have sex and prevent pregnancy by doing various things.
The culprit, as always, is lack of sex education. Parents demand the right to tell their kids about sex and then fail to do so. Or else they teach the wrong things.
Then there are the parents who refuse to allow their kids to use birth control, believing it will "encourage promiscuity." Which is dead wrong.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6102a1.htm?s_cid=mm6102a1_w

I had a case in point earlier this week. A 16 year old girl wanted to know how she could avoid telling her parents that she was pregnant. She didn't want an abortion, but she didn't want her parents to know she was pregnant. I agreed to talk with her parents. Which was tough.
Dad was beyond angry. Denied girl was pregnant until shown the positive test (she always denied she was having sex). Then blamed the school for promoting promiscuity. Then wanted the guy arrested.
I asked him if he or mom had ever talked to his kid about sex. Nope, no sex talk. It was replaced by a (forced) promise that daughter never have sex. Which last until girls come under the spell of a cute guy.

That's not actually the problem. Sex Ed is a part of pretty much all high school curriculum these days. The problem is the internet. People see stuff on the internet that is purported as fact, and it's complete bullshit, but it looks true, and people stop thinking. Same with sex in general, and it's not limited to cute guys. There's no "spell", gabs, any more than girls put guys under a spell.

No amount of education is going to reach everyone. How many shows show that teens can get pregnant? Hell, there's one show literally called Teen Moms, another called The Secret Life of the American Teen.

Thunderknuckles

01-21-2012, 10:23 PM

The fact that you and your fellow travelers fail to mention is that where “abstinence only” education was the only choice presented to adolescents does nothing to change their behavior regarding sexual activity. In fact, “…[I]abstinence-only education as a state policy is ineffective in preventing teenage pregnancy and may actually be contributing to the high teenage pregnancy rates in the U.S…” (Stanger-Hall K, 2011). Another study concludes this choice is, “…scientifically and ethically flawed. Although abstinence from vaginal and anal intercourse is theoretically fully protective against pregnancy and disease, in actual practice, abstinence-only programs often fail to prevent these outcomes…” (Santelli J, 2005). Never mind that much of the information provided under the AOE programs established under the Bush administration is, regarding the prevention of pregnancy, HIV/AIDS and other STD’s are “[I]incomplete” if not outright “misleading”. (Santelli J, 2005). AOE can have a positive impact only if presented within the context accurate and age appropriate information on sex and sexuality.

References:

Santelli J, Ott M, Lyon M, Rogers J, Summers D, Schliefer R. (2005). Abstinence and abstinence-only education: A review of U.S. policies and programs. Journal of Adolescent Health, 72-81.
Stanger-Hall K, Hall D. (2011, October 14). Abstinence-Only Education and Teen Pregnancy Rates: Why We Need Comprehensive Sex Education in the U.S. Retrieved from PLoS one: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0024658
In other words, have sex, you may contract an STD or may become pregnant. Protection may lower the risk. Abstinence is the only 100% effective way to avoid either. The choice is yours.

Class dismissed.

Once again, why do we have "sex education"?

MtnBiker

01-21-2012, 10:57 PM

The fact that you and your fellow travelers fail to mention is that where “abstinence only” education was the only choice presented to adolescents does nothing to change their behavior regarding sexual activity.

First off, you can site any reference or study you want. The simple truth and fact is abstinence works every time it is used.

Second, I did not mention "abstinence only". I will even quote myself so you can pratice your reading comprehension skills;

Sure, I did not mention anything about one method being exclusive in respect to education.

I did mention that the left cringes at the mention of abstinence, hmmmm.

ConHog

01-21-2012, 11:01 PM

First off, you can site any reference or study you want. The simple truth and fact is abstinence works every time it is used.

Second, I did not mention "abstinence only". I will even quote myself so you can pratice your reading comprehension skills;

I did mention that the left cringes at the mention of abstinence, hmmmm.

Simple. Because they don't really care what is best. What they care about is shutting up anyone who thinks differently than them.

bullypulpit

01-22-2012, 01:35 AM

First off, you can site any reference or study you want. The simple truth and fact is abstinence works every time it is used.

Second, I did not mention "abstinence only". I will even quote myself so you can pratice your reading comprehension skills;

I did mention that the left cringes at the mention of abstinence, hmmmm.

You didn't need to, it was implicit. Secondly, it does have a positive impact impact when coupled with fact based and age appropriate education on sex and sexuality. No cringing here...Just tired of watching folks on the right ignore evidence-based practice in favor of dogma.

Simple. Because they don't really care what is best. What they care about is shutting up anyone who thinks differently than them.

"What is best" must be rooted in best practice and evidence-based practice as demonstrated by research if it is to have any real meaning. If you consider beng presented with the facts on a given issue as being told to shut up, you might consider getting professional help for your persecution complex.

Gunny

01-22-2012, 07:25 AM

This is, in large part, results from the lack of fact based, age appropriate sex-education in schools, coupled with the failure of parents to realistically address issues of sex and sexuality with their children. And when parents abdicate this responsibility to address these issues in a realistic and responsible manner, and they are unwilling to cede this responsibility to our schools, they should be prepared to accept the consequences of their failure.

Studies have shown that, “…[I]the overwhelming weight of the evidence demonstrates that programs focusing on sexuality along with a discussion of the use of condoms and contraception do not increase sexual activity, as some had feared. In fact, a number of programs that encouraged both goals for sexually active youth actually delayed or reduced the frequency of sexual intercourse…” (Kirby, 2007).

But given the monumental disdain of the religious right and other right wing social conservatives in this country have for experimentally verified, evidence-based practice, the facts will make no difference in this matter. They will continue to insist on the efficacy of demonstrably failed “abstinence only” programs which comport with their own repressive, unrealistic dogma.

Reference:

Kirby, D. (2007). Abstinence, Sex, and STD/HIV Education Programs for Teens: Their Impact on Sexual Behavior, Pregnancy, and Sexually, Transmitted Disease. [I]Annual Review of Sex Research, 18, 143-177.

*yawn*

It's a result of parents being emasculated legally from having control over their children and lack of personal responsibility.

All you want to do is give them a blueprint for "How to". The fact is, you CAN'T argue with the results of just keeping your dick in your pants if you cannot/do not/can't afford and/or are otherwise incapable of raising a child. It's 100%.

Any other mumbo-jumbo to the contrary attempting to absolve people of the consequences of their actions doesn't get NEAR that percentage. No matter how many links you post, nor how much money is spent supporting the goons that make up the excuses.

Jess

01-22-2012, 08:37 AM

In other words, have sex, you may contract an STD or may become pregnant. Protection may lower the risk. Abstinence is the only 100% effective way to avoid either. The choice is yours.

Class dismissed.

Once again, why do we have "sex education"?

I vote for "breeding and reproduction" class, taught from a purely biological/scientific point of view. That does not include different positions, how to get your partner to orgasm faster or how to work multiple partners into the scene.

If you grow up on a farm, you know the down and dirty of it - but it's just a biological imperative, not a freakin' pastime. It doesn't make certain animals more popular if they do it more often and you definitely see what the effects of breeding is. Especially with rabbits. ;)

The truth of it is that sex is glamorized. Adults glamorize it and teens want to be glamorous. Guys want to get laid, girls want to be loved, girls think guys love them but most guys use that to get laid. Is that right? Not really. But it's reality.

3197
While I'm up on the soapbox, it is my firm opinion that young people being exposed to porn is very detrimental too. This opinion was formed after being married to a guy who thought everything he saw in a porn was real. Yes, he really did. Teens have easy access to adult material via internet, movies, tv and some probably still look at magazines and that too is so glamorized and made to look amazing. Real life isn't a porn flick and you ain't gonna be that stud or that hottie. You wanna be John Holmes? Fine. Just remember he ended up with AIDS, doing gay porn without telling his partners he had AIDS. Which he died from, IIRC.

Girls are generally pretty stupid when they are infatuated with a boy. Boys are pretty stupid when the hormones start up.

Does abstinence work? Heck yeah, it does. Worked for me for a really long time. 100%. As someone else mentioned, nothing else comes close to that percentage.

Is abstinence difficult? Not really. Not if you are capable of saying "No". It actually makes teen life easier, believe it or not. There's no pressure when guys know you aren't going to put out, you don't have to go on birth control early, you don't have to buy condoms or make sure the guy has one, there's no stress from thinking you might be pregnant, you don't have to worry about STDs, you never get called a slut/whore and guys will actually be your friend because there's no pressure on them either.

ConHog

01-22-2012, 07:30 PM

I vote for "breeding and reproduction" class, taught from a purely biological/scientific point of view. That does not include different positions, how to get your partner to orgasm faster or how to work multiple partners into the scene.

If you grow up on a farm, you know the down and dirty of it - but it's just a biological imperative, not a freakin' pastime. It doesn't make certain animals more popular if they do it more often and you definitely see what the effects of breeding is. Especially with rabbits. ;)

The truth of it is that sex is glamorized. Adults glamorize it and teens want to be glamorous. Guys want to get laid, girls want to be loved, girls think guys love them but most guys use that to get laid. Is that right? Not really. But it's reality.

3197
While I'm up on the soapbox, it is my firm opinion that young people being exposed to porn is very detrimental too. This opinion was formed after being married to a guy who thought everything he saw in a porn was real. Yes, he really did. Teens have easy access to adult material via internet, movies, tv and some probably still look at magazines and that too is so glamorized and made to look amazing. Real life isn't a porn flick and you ain't gonna be that stud or that hottie. You wanna be John Holmes? Fine. Just remember he ended up with AIDS, doing gay porn without telling his partners he had AIDS. Which he died from, IIRC.

Girls are generally pretty stupid when they are infatuated with a boy. Boys are pretty stupid when the hormones start up.

Does abstinence work? Heck yeah, it does. Worked for me for a really long time. 100%. As someone else mentioned, nothing else comes close to that percentage.

Is abstinence difficult? Not really. Not if you are capable of saying "No". It actually makes teen life easier, believe it or not. There's no pressure when guys know you aren't going to put out, you don't have to go on birth control early, you don't have to buy condoms or make sure the guy has one, there's no stress from thinking you might be pregnant, you don't have to worry about STDs, you never get called a slut/whore and guys will actually be your friend because there's no pressure on them either.

I completely agree with you about what should be taught at school. Not sex ed, just simple biology and health education.

pegwinn

01-22-2012, 10:47 PM

First off, I blame the parents for not embracing reality and instilling fear at the same time. I will use myself as an example of how I accomplished that.

First, I got me an old poster showing close ups of a lady's private parts after various STD's had run amok and caused some unsightly devastation to same. I had my girls look at it for about twenty minutes while I explained them in really ugly detail.

I also got them on birth control early on. Me and the Mrs made sure they understood that getting lucky was not in the approved program either. We used the "this is seat belts for sex" line.

Then, each time my girls dated the boy had to meet me. This normally occurred about the time I was getting out of the field or back from deployment. I told the young man that my daughter used the barrier method of birth control. I explained that I personally was the barrier and that going to prison didn't scare me a bit.

To be fair, we got a similar poster for the boy as well. I also made it clear that if he did manage to get someone knocked up he would pay, literally and in cash, for a long time.

Three realities are in play here. Parents are not instilling the right values or fears into the young uns. Parents are not remembering the things they did as kids. And political/social pressures to supposedly "teach" kids the mechanics of the act are a tacit approval from an accepted authority figure that undermines responsible parents.

My girls were 21 and 25 before they got pregnant BTW. Boy is 26 and no known kids.

gabosaurus

01-22-2012, 11:45 PM

Too many of you are thinking how an adult would think and not how a teen would think. Kids no longer care what adults tell them. Too many of them get what they want, whenever they want.
One thing I agree on is the total lack of personal responsibility. Most kids believe that adults totally have their back on everything they do. "I'm pregnant? Eh... my mom/dad/both will take care of it." And if they don't, society will be to blame.
At the other end of the spectrum are the kids who have no parental input at all. You would be surprised at how many kids have no adult supervision in their live. Or else the parent doesn't care about them. The kids are left to make their own decisions, which are often wrong.

I read several of Gunny's post and I was amazed at how full shit he is. You can't threaten kids. That is a sure way for them to go behind your back. Please tell me how many of your kids still talk to you.

ConHog

01-23-2012, 01:42 AM

Too many of you are thinking how an adult would think and not how a teen would think. Kids no longer care what adults tell them. Too many of them get what they want, whenever they want.
One thing I agree on is the total lack of personal responsibility. Most kids believe that adults totally have their back on everything they do. "I'm pregnant? Eh... my mom/dad/both will take care of it." And if they don't, society will be to blame.
At the other end of the spectrum are the kids who have no parental input at all. You would be surprised at how many kids have no adult supervision in their live. Or else the parent doesn't care about them. The kids are left to make their own decisions, which are often wrong.

I read several of Gunny's post and I was amazed at how full shit he is. You can't threaten kids. That is a sure way for them to go behind your back. Please tell me how many of your kids still talk to you.
Really? Hmm my parents raised me to fear and or respect them same with my brother and sister. We all turned out great. Very close to parents. I'm raising my kids the same way with very similar results.

You want to raise your kids believing you're their friend instead of their parent fine by me but don't tell me my way is wrong

darin

01-23-2012, 05:54 AM

Too many of you are thinking how an adult would think and not how a teen would think. Kids no longer care what adults tell them. Too many of them get what they want, whenever they want.
...
I read several of Gunny's post and I was amazed at how full shit he is. You can't threaten kids. That is a sure way for them to go behind your back. Please tell me how many of your kids still talk to you.

sounds like you have given up on being a parent and regulated yourself to being a gardener. You are FINE with only seeing a child is watered and fed - and allow them to grow as they please. How nice. Your attitude is why society is failing, if at all. Your attitude betrays the very problem with the fabric of the family.

Jess

01-23-2012, 09:11 AM

Really? Hmm my parents raised me to fear and or respect them same with my brother and sister. We all turned out great. Very close to parents. I'm raising my kids the same way with very similar results.

You want to raise your kids believing you're their friend instead of their parent fine by me but don't tell me my way is wrong

Ditto.

Which is probably why I didn't drink any alcohol until I was 21, never smoked cigarettes (still haven't) and never did any sort of illegal drugs whatsoever. Along with not having sex until I was in my 20s.

Too many of you are thinking how an adult would think and not how a teen would think. Kids no longer care what adults tell them. Too many of them get what they want, whenever they want.
One thing I agree on is the total lack of personal responsibility. Most kids believe that adults totally have their back on everything they do. "I'm pregnant? Eh... my mom/dad/both will take care of it." And if they don't, society will be to blame.
At the other end of the spectrum are the kids who have no parental input at all. You would be surprised at how many kids have no adult supervision in their live. Or else the parent doesn't care about them. The kids are left to make their own decisions, which are often wrong.

All of the above is the fault of the parents. It's not a game - it's a job and not always a fun one, as I'm sure you know. They know what they are taught but more so what they are shown. If we show them that they rule the family, by God, they will. They're not ready for that. They're kids and it is our job as parents to teach them how to be productive, decent, responsible members of society and the human race in general. There's not much we can do once they leave our shelter but giving up on them before then simply is not an option.

I absolutely agree though, that kids who have parents who don't care will go astray in a big way. Not their fault. Again - the parents bear the blame.

I read several of Gunny's post and I was amazed at how full shit he is. You can't threaten kids. That is a sure way for them to go behind your back. Please tell me how many of your kids still talk to you.

Oh, depending on the situation, you most certainly CAN threaten kids. They actually WANT boundaries and someone who cares enough to give them those boundaries. They need it because they are too immature to create their own boundaries. Hormones tend to try to go through barriers ... except the Jarhead ones. ;)

And while it's really none of your business and you're definitely jumping to HUGE, erroneous conclusions - Gunny's daughter loves him and talks to him frequently. Actually, when she needs input or advice, he's the first person she calls. Why? Because he is still her dad and will tell it to her like it is, yet he's not controlling about it. He gives her advice when she asks, then leaves her to make the decision, knowing that she's an adult who will and should make her own decisions. She knows he loves her unconditionally. Period.

Gunny

01-23-2012, 10:20 AM

Too many of you are thinking how an adult would think and not how a teen would think. Kids no longer care what adults tell them. Too many of them get what they want, whenever they want.
One thing I agree on is the total lack of personal responsibility. Most kids believe that adults totally have their back on everything they do. "I'm pregnant? Eh... my mom/dad/both will take care of it." And if they don't, society will be to blame.
At the other end of the spectrum are the kids who have no parental input at all. You would be surprised at how many kids have no adult supervision in their live. Or else the parent doesn't care about them. The kids are left to make their own decisions, which are often wrong.

I read several of Gunny's post and I was amazed at how full shit he is. You can't threaten kids. That is a sure way for them to go behind your back. Please tell me how many of your kids still talk to you.

You would be the one full of shit. Kids don't listen because they don't have to because you leftwingnuts have ensured they don't. ANYTHING wrong with kids these days is because of people like YOU. You call me full of shit because you don't have brains enough to realize how stupid you are, and in true form, refuse to accept the fact that you leftwing idiots shot YOURSELVES in the ass. Your very accusation is product of your stupidity.

First off, I blame the parents for not embracing reality and instilling fear at the same time. I will use myself as an example of how I accomplished that.

First, I got me an old poster showing close ups of a lady's private parts after various STD's had run amok and caused some unsightly devastation to same. I had my girls look at it for about twenty minutes while I explained them in really ugly detail.

I also got them on birth control early on. Me and the Mrs made sure they understood that getting lucky was not in the approved program either. We used the "this is seat belts for sex" line.

Then, each time my girls dated the boy had to meet me. This normally occurred about the time I was getting out of the field or back from deployment. I told the young man that my daughter used the barrier method of birth control. I explained that I personally was the barrier and that going to prison didn't scare me a bit.

To be fair, we got a similar poster for the boy as well. I also made it clear that if he did manage to get someone knocked up he would pay, literally and in cash, for a long time.

Three realities are in play here. Parents are not instilling the right values or fears into the young uns. Parents are not remembering the things they did as kids. And political/social pressures to supposedly "teach" kids the mechanics of the act are a tacit approval from an accepted authority figure that undermines responsible parents.

My girls were 21 and 25 before they got pregnant BTW. Boy is 26 and no known kids.

Minus the photos (didn't think of it), I employed pretty much the same stance. My daughter was married and 24 before she had a child.

Too many of you are thinking how an adult would think and not how a teen would think. Kids no longer care what adults tell them. Too many of them get what they want, whenever they want.
One thing I agree on is the total lack of personal responsibility. Most kids believe that adults totally have their back on everything they do. "I'm pregnant? Eh... my mom/dad/both will take care of it." And if they don't, society will be to blame.
At the other end of the spectrum are the kids who have no parental input at all. You would be surprised at how many kids have no adult supervision in their live. Or else the parent doesn't care about them. The kids are left to make their own decisions, which are often wrong.

I read several of Gunny's post and I was amazed at how full shit he is. You can't threaten kids. That is a sure way for them to go behind your back. Please tell me how many of your kids still talk to you.

First off, who said anything about threatening? Second, you damned sure CAN. It works like a charm. However, when you pull your head out of your nether region, please take note this is about E-D-U-C-A-T-I-O-N not threats.

Your comment is laughable. Why would you assume a child would not talk to you for teaching them to be responsible and deal with the consequences of their actions? Daddy's little girl adores me, as does my granddaughter. Not even a decent lame shot.

This is true, but must be tempered with some reality.

IE we PREFER you be abstinent, but IF you are going to engage in such activity, THIS is the steps you take to protect yourselves.

Separate issues.

Abstinence is 100% effective.

Reality: My daughter was on birth control by the time she was 14-15. As a single Marine parent, there was no room for error. She was also very well educated on the subject where she went to school. I read the curriculum before I'd let her take the class.

The stance "children don't listen", "you can't tell them what to do", "you can't threaten" them is bullshit, lame and a copout from a parent's responsibility.

sounds like you have given up on being a parent and regulated yourself to being a gardener. You are FINE with only seeing a child is watered and fed - and allow them to grow as they please. How nice. Your attitude is why society is failing, if at all. Your attitude betrays the very problem with the fabric of the family.

Agreed. Her whole stance is just a copout to being responsible.

ConHog

01-23-2012, 12:06 PM

See it all the time with kids who have to come before the school board because of disciplinary problems. "but if I do that, they will be mad at me"

Who gives a shit? You're their parent, not their best friend. My kids get mad at me all the time, but even at that they KNOW that that I am first and foremost about what is best for THEM. They have other friends, they don't have other parents.

Gunny

01-23-2012, 01:02 PM

See it all the time with kids who have to come before the school board because of disciplinary problems. "but if I do that, they will be mad at me"

Who gives a shit? You're their parent, not their best friend. My kids get mad at me all the time, but even at that they KNOW that that I am first and foremost about what is best for THEM. They have other friends, they don't have other parents.

It's hard to juggle the two. I ALWAYS land on side of "parent", piss them off or not. Jess's two older boys usually are well-behaved and can pull it off in public. The youngest, whom Jess refers to as "Lil Gunny" (I have NO idea why), not so much. Just because he's always into shit and if you pick on him or push him he'll knock the crap out of you doesn't make him wrong. Just misunderstood. Obviously, anyone that understood, wouldn't f-k with him.:laugh:

However, he and I get along the least. He wants to butt heads. You can ask Jess what butting heads with ME will get you. I cracked my garage floor in San Antonio going head first and it woke me up.:laugh2:

ConHog

01-23-2012, 01:20 PM

It's hard to juggle the two. I ALWAYS land on side of "parent", piss them off or not. Jess's two older boys usually are well-behaved and can pull it off in public. The youngest, whom Jess refers to as "Lil Gunny" (I have NO idea why), not so much. Just because he's always into shit and if you pick on him or push him he'll knock the crap out of you doesn't make him wrong. Just misunderstood. Obviously, anyone that understood, wouldn't f-k with him.:laugh:

However, he and I get along the least. He wants to butt heads. You can ask Jess what butting heads with ME will get you. I cracked my garage floor in San Antonio going head first and it woke me up.:laugh2:

Sure, you have to juggle, and of course we all would rather our kids got along with us, but at the end of the day most of us, liberals excluded, realize that eventually they WILL understand why we were hard on them when we needed to be.

It's no different than some of the soldiers I commanded or the Marines you bossed around. We had to find what worked best for each individual. I have two 19 y/o knot heads. What works for one, doesn't always work for the other. One of the knot heads requires a more stern approach than the other knot head does, and if you handle one like you would handle the other, the results aren't ideal. But both know that when push comes to shove I am in charge, not them.

Gunny

01-23-2012, 01:21 PM

Sure, you have to juggle, and of course we all would rather our kids got along with us, but at the end of the day most of us, liberals excluded, realize that eventually they WILL understand why we were hard on them when we needed to be.

It's no different than some of the soldiers I commanded or the Marines you bossed around. We had to find what worked best for each individual. I have two 19 y/o knot heads. What works for one, doesn't always work for the other. One of the knot heads requires a more stern approach than the other knot head does, and if you handle one like you would handle the other, the results aren't ideal. But both know that when push comes to shove I am in charge, not them.

Agreed.

gabosaurus

01-23-2012, 02:33 PM

Once again, my comparisons of Gunny with "The Great Santini" come to mind. In my view, you can't run a family as basic training.
My parents didn't instill fear in my sister and I. They demanded respect and enforced it through discipline.
My mom was the disciplinarian in the family. I wish my mom had spanked or swatted me when I got in trouble. Instead, I had to listen to a stern dressing down. My mom, being German, was very good at this. When she was angry, my mom got this look on her face that made you want to crawl under the floor. I didn't fear my mom, because I knew she would never hurt me, but I was afraid of her wrath.

At the same time, my parents were extremely open. I could ask them questions about anything. Their opinions were open to discussion, with the understanding that their decisions were final.
If my mom said I couldn't do something, and I asked why, my mom never once screamed "Because I said so!" She would tell her reasons and that was that. You never argued with my mom. My sister made the mistake of yelling at my mom once and quickly regretted it. My mom took her into another room and laid down the law.

My parents stressed personal responsibility. If one of us got into trouble at school, it was our fault until proven otherwise. Same way if we got into disputes with other kids.
My sister got into a fight with another girl once, which ended with the police coming to our home. I don't know what they discussed, but they ended up apologizing to my mom when they left.

My parents ran our home like a business. If you wanted something, you had to explain why you needed it. It wasn't just "I need a new so-and-so, please give me money."
Neither of us ever got an allowance. But we still had chores we had to do, with no excuses accepted.
My parents stressed education. Your grades determined how many privileges you got. Which is why neither of us ever got a grade below a B in 12 years of schooling. We couldn't go anywhere on a school night unless it had something to do with a school activity.
Apparently it worked. My sister has a degree from USC and I have an advanced degree from Cal-Berkeley.

I am raising my daughter the same way. She is 10 years old, but we have already had the "sex talk." Because she asked about it.
I can't tell my daughter "don't have sex until marriage or else!" That would be hypocritical, because I didn't do that.
But we have discussed why it is not in her best interests. How guys can take advantage of girls and who bears all the consequences. We even watched the insipid "Teen Mom" show once, so she could see some of the problems that emerge.

With our current society saturated with sexual references in films, TV, print media and internet, you can't tell kids not to have sex. They have to make up their own minds. And they will, whether you want them to or not.
A girl needs to be free to ask their parents for birth control. They won't do it if they are afraid of your reaction.
An ignorant teen is a pregnancy waiting to happen.

ConHog

01-23-2012, 02:51 PM

Once again, my comparisons of Gunny with "The Great Santini" come to mind. In my view, you can't run a family as basic training.
My parents didn't instill fear in my sister and I. They demanded respect and enforced it through discipline.
My mom was the disciplinarian in the family. I wish my mom had spanked or swatted me when I got in trouble. Instead, I had to listen to a stern dressing down. My mom, being German, was very good at this. When she was angry, my mom got this look on her face that made you want to crawl under the floor. I didn't fear my mom, because I knew she would never hurt me, but I was afraid of her wrath.

At the same time, my parents were extremely open. I could ask them questions about anything. Their opinions were open to discussion, with the understanding that their decisions were final.
If my mom said I couldn't do something, and I asked why, my mom never once screamed "Because I said so!" She would tell her reasons and that was that. You never argued with my mom. My sister made the mistake of yelling at my mom once and quickly regretted it. My mom took her into another room and laid down the law.

My parents stressed personal responsibility. If one of us got into trouble at school, it was our fault until proven otherwise. Same way if we got into disputes with other kids.
My sister got into a fight with another girl once, which ended with the police coming to our home. I don't know what they discussed, but they ended up apologizing to my mom when they left.

My parents ran our home like a business. If you wanted something, you had to explain why you needed it. It wasn't just "I need a new so-and-so, please give me money."
Neither of us ever got an allowance. But we still had chores we had to do, with no excuses accepted.
My parents stressed education. Your grades determined how many privileges you got. Which is why neither of us ever got a grade below a B in 12 years of schooling. We couldn't go anywhere on a school night unless it had something to do with a school activity.
Apparently it worked. My sister has a degree from USC and I have an advanced degree from Cal-Berkeley.

I am raising my daughter the same way. She is 10 years old, but we have already had the "sex talk." Because she asked about it.
I can't tell my daughter "don't have sex until marriage or else!" That would be hypocritical, because I didn't do that.
But we have discussed why it is not in her best interests. How guys can take advantage of girls and who bears all the consequences. We even watched the insipid "Teen Mom" show once, so she could see some of the problems that emerge.

With our current society saturated with sexual references in films, TV, print media and internet, you can't tell kids not to have sex. They have to make up their own minds. And they will, whether you want them to or not.
A girl needs to be free to ask their parents for birth control. They won't do it if they are afraid of your reaction.
An ignorant teen is a pregnancy waiting to happen.

Are you reading the same things Gunny is writing in this thread that I am? I haven't one seen him suggest anyone should be kept ignorant, nor have I seen him say he runs his family like a drill sargent, in fact it was ME who referenced the military, and the ONLY comparison I made was to compare having to treat kids individually just as you had to treat soldiers individually.

I have to ask, how at 10 years old did your daughter even know what sex is? Seriously. My own daughter is only 6 so I can't reference her, but I KNOW many 10 year old girls and they play with Barbies, and ride horses, and drive me crazy with the Easy Bake ovens, but none of them have ever mentioned sex. Oh, that's right their parents monitor who their friends are and what they watch on television, etc etc so that they stay age appropriate.

How silly and unfriendly of them.

gabosaurus

01-23-2012, 02:58 PM

I have to ask, how at 10 years old did your daughter even know what sex is? Seriously. My own daughter is only 6 so I can't reference her, but I KNOW many 10 year old girls and they play with Barbies, and ride horses, and drive me crazy with the Easy Bake ovens, but none of them have ever mentioned sex. Oh, that's right their parents monitor who their friends are and what they watch on television, etc etc so that they stay age appropriate.

Many 10 year olds are allowed to watch the TV programs and movies and such that my daughter is not allowed to watch. You would be surprised at how many parents discuss sexual topics openly in their homes. Single moms will have men over to their homes. This brings the topic of sex into schools.
Kids still play with Barbies and Easy Bake Ovens (my daughter would rather read books), but they also know a lot more than you think they know.
My parents never swept anything under the rug with me (thought I have to admit that I didn't breach the sex topic until I was 12) and I don't see any reason to do so with my daughter.

I know of parents who teach their kids how to shoot guns and take them hunting when they are 6 or 7 year olds. If you are teaching kids to kill, why not teach them about sex?

MtnBiker

01-23-2012, 02:59 PM

Are you reading the same things Gunny is writing in this thread that I am? I haven't one seen him suggest anyone should be kept ignorant,

You need to realize that people remain ignorant until subjected to years of libreal approved education that needs increased funding every year despite performance.

gabosaurus

01-23-2012, 03:46 PM

You need to realize that people remain ignorant until subjected to years of libreal approved education that needs increased funding every year despite performance.

You show up once a month to post something that ignorant and off base? :lame2:

ConHog

01-23-2012, 03:54 PM

You show up once a month to post something that ignorant and off base? :lame2:

How was it ignorant or off base? Surely you don't deny that our education system is ruled by the liberal teacher's unions who want more money regardless of job performance?

pegwinn

01-23-2012, 07:52 PM

Agreed.

Be advised that Hell hath frozen over. It's due to thaw tonight and then the cease fire can be concluded.:coffee:

Once again, my comparisons of Gunny with "The Great Santini" come to mind. In my view, you can't run a family as basic training.

You are reaching waaaaaaaaaaaay back for a bad reference. Heartbreak ridge was a better metaphor of "tough love" Jarhead style. I won't critisize your parents (or your) methods because each person brings a unique style that matches the action. But, for the record, my kids understood that there was a box that we are all in. Anything out of the box, good or bad, was noted and actioned. They also understood that if you crossed a line there were consequences. Nine times out of ten being fair, firm, and consistent works on Marines, Kids, and Civilian Subordinates. Parenting is simply a specialized subset of Leadership and all the traits and principles apply.

You need to realize that people remain ignorant until subjected to years of libreal approved education that needs increased funding every year despite performance.

:lol:

gabosaurus

01-23-2012, 09:10 PM

Of course, that has nothing at all to do with the original topic. But if you can't think of a good response, the best reaction is to sidestep.

pegwinn

01-23-2012, 09:17 PM

Of course, that has nothing at all to do with the original topic. But if you can't think of a good response, the best reaction is to sidestep.

Who are you responding to? I could be mistaken but I'm assuming it is me since your post is directly below mine and I addressed you in it. Did I sidestep your position in some way?

cadet

01-24-2012, 10:11 AM

Many 10 year olds are allowed to watch the TV programs and movies and such that my daughter is not allowed to watch. You would be surprised at how many parents discuss sexual topics openly in their homes. Single moms will have men over to their homes. This brings the topic of sex into schools.
Kids still play with Barbies and Easy Bake Ovens (my daughter would rather read books), but they also know a lot more than you think they know.
My parents never swept anything under the rug with me (thought I have to admit that I didn't breach the sex topic until I was 12) and I don't see any reason to do so with my daughter.

I know of parents who teach their kids how to shoot guns and take them hunting when they are 6 or 7 year olds. If you are teaching kids to kill, why not teach them about sex?

First off, you might want to check what books your daughter is reading, cause most of them have pretty graphic scenes in them.

Second, I'm sure your parents reached that sex topic long before you were twelve, you just didn't know it. I know my dad says a lot of things at dinner, and my brothers don't understand a bit of it.

And, trust me, the kids these days are being taught about the sex thing in schools long before any parents know about it, (i got sooo good at forging my moms signature for that stupid class, just so my parents "knew what was being taught")

Third, Guns and sex don't go together. My little brother loves to take his gun out and shoot his little targets, and he's ten (probably 20) times a better shot then me. There's quite a difference between being taught the safety of handling a gun, and protecting yourself, and being taught to have safe sex. One is respect for the weapon, the other is don't do it.

Now, do i think you should talk to your kids about sex all the time? hell no, let them enjoy their innocence for as long as possible. but make sure they know the things they'll have to deal with. What made me go through all my life a virgin? my dad saying "You knock somebody up, you will quit school, i will kick you out, and you will raise the kid. Got it?"

"This is my rifle,
This is my gun,
This is for shootin,
This is for fun!" :laugh:

LuvRPgrl

01-24-2012, 12:00 PM

I'll tell you what's wrong. No fear.

We feared the dad's of the girls we were fucking back in high school. That alone was enough of a reason to wear a fucking condom. Not to mention the fear of becoming a teenage dad, which nowadays some kids think it's cute to be a baby momma/daddy at 16 or whatever.

Shit I guarantee my dad or one of the girl's dads would have killed me if I got a girl pregnant in high school.

We could only wish...:poke:

ConHog

01-24-2012, 12:21 PM

We could only wish...:poke:

You wish I were your daddy?

LuvRPgrl

01-24-2012, 12:28 PM

So, first you claim the studies show that abstinence doesnt work
then you say the info on abstinence programs is incomplete,
then you follow up with, it is misleading again,

so, are these studies accurate or not?

The fact that you and your fellow travelers fail to mention is that where “abstinence only” education was the only choice presented to adolescents does nothing to change their behavior regarding sexual activity. In fact, “…abstinence-only education as a state policy is ineffective in preventing teenage pregnancy and may actually be contributing to the high teenage pregnancy rates in the U.S…” (Stanger-Hall K, 2011). Another study concludes this choice is, “…scientifically and ethically flawed. Although abstinence from vaginal and anal intercourse is theoretically fully protective against pregnancy and disease, in actual practice, abstinence-only programs often fail to prevent these outcomes…” (Santelli J, 2005). Never mind that much of the information provided under the AOE programs established under the Bush administration is, regarding the prevention of pregnancy, HIV/AIDS and other STD’s are “incomplete” if not outright “misleading”. (Santelli J, 2005). AOE can have a positive impact only if presented within the context accurate and age appropriate information on sex and sexuality.

References:

Santelli J, Ott M, Lyon M, Rogers J, Summers D, Schliefer R. (2005). Abstinence and abstinence-only education: A review of U.S. policies and programs. Journal of Adolescent Health, 72-81.
Stanger-Hall K, Hall D. (2011, October 14). Abstinence-Only Education and Teen Pregnancy Rates: Why We Need Comprehensive Sex Education in the U.S. Retrieved from PLoS one: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0024658

LuvRPgrl

01-24-2012, 12:48 PM

First off, you can site any reference or study you want. The simple truth and fact is abstinence works every time it is used.

Second, I did not mention "abstinence only". I will even quote myself so you can pratice your reading comprehension skills;

I did mention that the left cringes at the mention of abstinence, hmmmm.

of course abstinence will often fail, because all of the surrounding situations are not conducive, in fact are outright antagonistic towards abstinence.

Its easy for kids to go from abstinence to activity,
not so easy to go from active to abstinent,
When you have teens that are mostly influenced by other teens instead of aduts, and 29 out of 30 are sexually active, then of course abstinence wont work for that one person

Try doing a study on how effective sex ed is, and take away the condoms from the kids before determining the results.

How is your liberal ideas working on educating and keeping teen pregnancy down, since the 60's, working?

thought so.

graduation numbers are down
murders are up
kids unable to read and write who graduate is up
usage of metal detectors is up
teen pregnancy is up,
Kids showing up at school with guns and commiting mass murder is up
Knowledge of US history is way down,
Knowledge of "homo contributors to history" is way up,
(make sure you know and are sympathetic to the woe of the homo, before you blow his brains out)
overall violence is up,
respect for authority is down
drug and alcohol abuse is up
bullying is out of control
nudity and bad language are now tolerated
Publicly acknowledging you are a Christian is forbidden
adoptions are down
abortions are up
drunk driving is up

so, how is that working for ya

FOR ABSTINENCE TO WORK EFFECTIVELY, IT NEEDS SUPPORTING ISSUES TO BE GIVEN A MORE CONSERVATIVE POV, AND ILLIMINATE THE OVERALL ATTITUDE OF IBEERALISM WITH KIDS AND SCHOOLS. OTHERWISE YOU ARE PUTTING A DROP OF WHITE PAINT INTO A GALLON OF BLACK.

LuvRPgrl

01-24-2012, 01:13 PM

Kids no longer care what adults tell them. Too many of them get what they want, whenever they want..
BINGO ! EXACTLY , so your solution is to give them even more choices to ignore their parents wishes?
How about adressing the real issue, lack of respect and influcence by the parents, instead of attacking the sympotms, pregnancy.
You are cleaning and dressing the knife wound, "if we dont teach the kids how to do it themselves, they will bleed to death'
WHEREAS we are trying to remove the knife and the reason kids want to kill each other.

One thing I agree on is the total lack of personal responsibility. Most kids believe that adults totally have their back on everything they do. "I'm pregnant? Eh... my mom/dad/both will take care of it." And if they don't, society will be to blame.

.BINGO ! EXACTLY , so your solution is to give them even more choices to ignore their parents wishes?
How about adressing the real issue, lack of respect and influcence by the parents, instead of attacking the sympotms, pregnancy.
You are cleaning and dressing the knife wound, "if we dont teach the kids how to do it themselves, they will bleed to death'
WHEREAS we are trying to remove the knife and the reason kids want to kill each other.

BINGO ! EXACTLY , so your solution is to give them even more choices to ignore their parents wishes?
How about adressing the real issue, lack of respect and influcence by the parents, instead of attacking the sympotms, pregnancy.
You are cleaning and dressing the knife wound, "if we dont teach the kids how to do it themselves, they will bleed to death'
WHEREAS we are trying to remove the knife and the reason kids want to kill each other.

At the other end of the spectrum are the kids who have no parental input at all. You would be surprised at how many kids have no adult supervision in their live
..Primarily due to the liberal fosterization of no fault divorce. Libs claim they put the kids first, but their actions prove otherwise,

Or else the parent doesn't care about them. The kids are left to make their own decisions, which are often wrong.

I read several of Gunny's post and I was amazed at how full shit he is. You can't threaten kids. That is a sure way for them to go behind your back. Please tell me how many of your kids still talk to you.
ALL SEVEN OF THEM.

NEWS FLASH' Studies have proven that studies arent accurate.

LuvRPgrl

01-24-2012, 01:19 PM

I know of parents who teach their kids how to shoot guns and take them hunting when they are 6 or 7 year olds. If you are teaching kids to kill, why not teach them about sex?

People get pregnant by learing how to hunt?
Maybe you need some sex ed.

MtnBiker

01-24-2012, 06:27 PM

You need to realize that people remain ignorant until subjected to years of libreal approved education that needs increased funding every year despite performance.

You show up once a month to post something that ignorant and off base? :lame2:

That is exactly what you are trying to argue.

The culprit, as always, is lack of sex education.

An ignorant teen is a pregnancy waiting to happen.

gabosaurus

01-24-2012, 09:20 PM

You people need to be around kids that are not your own. Otherwise, you will fail to grasp what I am trying to tell you. As usual.

pegwinn

01-24-2012, 10:09 PM

You people need to be around kids that are not your own. Otherwise, you will fail to grasp what I am trying to tell you. As usual.

So, being around other peoples children is a prerequisite to fully understanding your POV? Seems to me the problem isn't the masses in this case. It's the message delivery.

I just think it is funny that you are actually saying things that "conservatives" have been saying for ages and you apparently don't realize it.

If you are limiting your kids TV and encouraging reading .... you may be a conservative in training.

fj1200

01-25-2012, 09:44 AM

You people need to be around kids that are not your own. Otherwise, you will fail to grasp what I am trying to tell you. As usual.

:laugh:

cadet

01-25-2012, 10:07 AM

You people need to be around kids that are not your own. Otherwise, you will fail to grasp what I am trying to tell you. As usual.

Ok, I think i see what your saying, I'm continually around kids, i love them, (And I never tell girlfriends fathers that) all my cousins are 5 and younger. What your saying is... we need to pay attention less to others, and focus on raising our own.

So... I think you contradicted yourself... :clap:

Also, my earlier post, my dad said to mention that he never said ALL of that, just that i would get a job and take care of the kid.