One of the best summarization I've heard of "Christianity" in the USA

[-Cp]

There is, in the USA, a thing called 'Christianity' that has little to do with Christianity as it is generally understood in Europe, or in the longer view of the Christian tradition. It is a heavily nationalistic, militaristic, masculine, authoritarian cult, with Jesus as the Cadillac-Driving All-American Hero who has come to save his Chosen People from Gayness, Socialised Medicine, Arabs and Long Haired Hippies. This might best be called, "Amerireligion". This was deliberately created after the 1960s by the American right, who wanted a way to stop the changes begun by the Progressive Era and the New Deal and to restore the dominance of the old ruling class. The civil rights and anti-vietnam war era brought it to a head. The right saw an opportunity to appeal to the gut-instincts of the white working class blue collar American male by playing on his prejudices - particularly on matters such as race, alternative lifestyles and the sexual revolution. So there was a deliberate demonisation and vilification of those who were seen as 'different' from that red-blooded white-skinned American male ideal - they were 'liberal hippy tree hugging dirty commie atheist bastards' - not to be trusted, because they were 'anti-American' (when 'American' is defined by the hard right). So, basically, American christians hate atheists because their religion is really a sort of tribal nationalism, and they've been played for fools by right-wing politicians.


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[Thunderknuckles]

pfft, that's one of the worst I've seen.
Who wrote that, C. Hitchens?

[Abbey Marie]

Your post needs to credit the source. Or are you the source?

[ConHog]

There is, in the USA, a thing called 'Christianity' that has little to do with Christianity as it is generally understood in Europe, or in the longer view of the Christian tradition. It is a heavily nationalistic, militaristic, masculine, authoritarian cult, with Jesus as the Cadillac-Driving All-American Hero who has come to save his Chosen People from Gayness, Socialised Medicine, Arabs and Long Haired Hippies. This might best be called, "Amerireligion". This was deliberately created after the 1960s by the American right, who wanted a way to stop the changes begun by the Progressive Era and the New Deal and to restore the dominance of the old ruling class. The civil rights and anti-vietnam war era brought it to a head. The right saw an opportunity to appeal to the gut-instincts of the white working class blue collar American male by playing on his prejudices - particularly on matters such as race, alternative lifestyles and the sexual revolution. So there was a deliberate demonisation and vilification of those who were seen as 'different' from that red-blooded white-skinned American male ideal - they were 'liberal hippy tree hugging dirty commie atheist bastards' - not to be trusted, because they were 'anti-American' (when 'American' is defined by the hard right). So, basically, American christians hate atheists because their religion is really a sort of tribal nationalism, and they've been played for fools by right-wing politicians.


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That was HORRIBLE. Thanks for wasting 1 minute of my life.

[-Cp]

Your post needs to credit the source. Or are you the source?

Let me find it.. it was from Reddit....

Here it is from point 7:
http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/o7vs5/why_are_atheists_so_hated_in_the_usa/c3f3d67

[-Cp]

That was HORRIBLE. Thanks for wasting 1 minute of my life.


What was horrible about it?

[ConHog]

What was horrible about it?

what was NOT horrible about it?

[-Cp]

what was NOT horrible about it?


Well, seeing as how it was nearly spot-on, in many regards, I can't see anything "horrible" about it... perhaps you can enlighten me?

[CSM]

That was boat load of one person's opinion and not much else.

[darin]

Better summary of Christianity


The Christian is in a different position from other people who are trying to be good. They hope, by being good, to please God if there is one; or — if they think there is not — at least they hope to deserve approval from good men. But the Christian thinks any good he does comes from the Christ-life inside him. He does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us; just as the roof of a greenhouse does not attract the sun because it is bright, but becomes bright because the sun shines on it.Christianity God is not an impersonal thing nor a static thing — not even just one person — but a dynamic pulsating activity, a life, a kind of drama, almost, if you will not think me irreverent, a kind of dance … (The) pattern of this three-personal life is … the great fountain of energy and beauty spurting up at the very center of reality...God lends us a little of His reasoning powers and that is how we think: He puts a little of His love into us and that is how we love one another. When you teach a child writing, you hold its hand while it forms the letters: that is, it forms the letters because you are forming them. We love and reason because God loves and reasons and holds our hand while we do it.

[logroller]

That was boat load of one person's opinion and not much else.

A boatload indeed... just the thesis, the argument's corollary premises and conclusion. Kinda like if I said you're mean. Everybody has been mean, the sky is blue on days when people are mean, the sky is blue today: therefore you're big meany...it is a nice day though. :coffee:

[fj1200]

One of the best summarization I've heard of "Christianity" in the USA...


... by a self-hating liberal atheist?

Possibly.

[ConHog]

"Christians bad, everyone else goood"

He could have just wrote that and saved the paper.

[PostmodernProphet]

Well, seeing as how it was nearly spot-on, in many regards, I can't see anything "horrible" about it... perhaps you can enlighten me?

start by pointing out a statement that was correct.....

here's one that might be "a deliberate demonisation", though it would only be correct if applied to the OP.......

[DragonStryk72]

"Christians bad, everyone else goood"

He could have just wrote that and saved the paper.

Actually, that's not what he was talking about. The quote specifically states a difference between two forms of Christianity, not that Christianity is in and of itself wrong, simply that politicians have been using it to exploit people for votes here, and unfortunately that is actually true.

[darin]

Actually, that's not what he was talking about. The quote specifically states a difference between two forms of Christianity, not that Christianity is in and of itself wrong, simply that politicians have been using it to exploit people for votes here, and unfortunately that is actually true.

...so it's about "Christianity" and "Fake Christianity"? OP should be entitled "One of the best summarization I've hard of Fake Christianity or people exploiting others in the name of Christ.

[PostmodernProphet]

...so it's about "Christianity" and "Fake Christianity"? OP should be entitled "One of the best summarization I've hard of Fake Christianity or people exploiting others in the name of Christ.
it's about a "Christianity" that liberals pretend exists.......thus a better title would be "One of the best summarizations of liberal fantasy"

[DragonStryk72]

...so it's about "Christianity" and "Fake Christianity"? OP should be entitled "One of the best summarization I've hard of Fake Christianity or people exploiting others in the name of Christ.

Like it said, it's "Christianity" vs Christianity. Note the quotation marks around the former.

[darin]

Like it said, it's "Christianity" vs Christianity. Note the quotation marks around the former.

I get it - was talking more-plainly for those like me; who prefer more-simple.

"christianity" is fake christianity. :)

[bullypulpit]

Religion, at its most fundamental level, is the magical thinking of children run amok in th hands of adults. The religious right in this nation has taken things to a whole new level in their melding their reactionary, selective interpretation of biblical scripture and dogma with the political dogma that is fascism. And America, in the grips of economic and political turmoil is fertile ground for those on the right who would lead this nation into a nightmarish mashup of "Leave it to Beaver" George Orwell's "1984".

Millions of Americans are feeling, and rightfully so, cast adrift by a political system more interested in its own self-perpetuation than in serving the needs of its constituents. And many of these Americans, in their despair, have succumbed to the lure of the magical world where God has a plan for them and Jesus will be their guide and protector from the troubles and turmoil of the world. They have fled from the reality based world to one of magical thinking where, as long as one is "right with the Lord", the loss of ones job, or health insurance or home don't really matter. In place of rational inquiry and intellectually honest debate, facts become mutable, effortlessly replaced with dogma and opinion and lies become truth...which is the very foundation of a totalitarian state. And those who refuse to conform to this vision of the world are fair game, from those of different religious traditions, even Christians who do not share this dark interpretation of their supposedly shared religion, are obstructions to the vision of the religious right in this nation which must be removed. They have entered a world where any atrocity can be condoned so long as it is carried out in the name of the Lord.

[fj1200]

^Did that make you feel better? Inane rantings help sometimes.

[Nukeman]

Religion, at its most fundamental level, is the magical thinking of children run amok in th hands of adults. The religious right in this nation has taken things to a whole new level in their melding their reactionary, selective interpretation of biblical scripture and dogma with the political dogma that is fascism. And America, in the grips of economic and political turmoil is fertile ground for those on the right who would lead this nation into a nightmarish mashup of "Leave it to Beaver" George Orwell's "1984".

Millions of Americans are feeling, and rightfully so, cast adrift by a political system more interested in its own self-perpetuation than in serving the needs of its constituents. And many of these Americans, in their despair, have succumbed to the lure of the magical world where God has a plan for them and Jesus will be their guide and protector from the troubles and turmoil of the world. They have fled from the reality based world to one of magical thinking where, as long as one is "right with the Lord", the loss of ones job, or health insurance or home don't really matter. In place of rational inquiry and intellectually honest debate, facts become mutable, effortlessly replaced with dogma and opinion and lies become truth...which is the very foundation of a totalitarian state. And those who refuse to conform to this vision of the world are fair game, from those of different religious traditions, even Christians who do not share this dark interpretation of their supposedly shared religion, are obstructions to the vision of the religious right in this nation which must be removed. They have entered a world where any atrocity can be condoned so long as it is carried out in the name of the Lord.
Now if you change that to Islam you have a VERY valid point, but I've noticed Bully you only rant about Christianity!! Why is that? You afraid of the Islamist, they might hunt you down, where the Christians let it slide as another misguided rant!?!?!?! Quit being a wuss and rail on ALL religions not just the one you are still allowed to hate.... Chicken!!!!!!!!!

[Gunny]

Now if you change that to Islam you have a VERY valid point, but I've noticed Bully you only rant about Christianity!! Why is that? You afraid of the Islamist, they might hunt you down, where the Christians let it slide as another misguided rant!?!?!?! Quit being a wuss and rail on ALL religions not just the one you are still allowed to hate.... Chicken!!!!!!!!!

He doesn't even have the balls to post here anymore. Probably likes to hang out on sounding boards that echo his same, stupid rhetoric. Since rhetoric is all he posts no matter the board. He's anti-anything normal and just another leftwingnut, "I wish-I-was-intellectually-elite moron in the shape of his President.

[bullypulpit]

Now if you change that to Islam you have a VERY valid point, but I've noticed Bully you only rant about Christianity!! Why is that? You afraid of the Islamist, they might hunt you down, where the Christians let it slide as another misguided rant!?!?!?! Quit being a wuss and rail on ALL religions not just the one you are still allowed to hate.... Chicken!!!!!!!!!

I don't have a problem with real Christians. Just ones like you who cherry pick scripture to justify your petty vices, prejudices, bigotry and general meaness of spirit. You're not real Christians...it's simply to great of a stretch for your limited emotional and spiritual capacity.

[bullypulpit]

He doesn't even have the balls to post here anymore. Probably likes to hang out on sounding boards that echo his same, stupid rhetoric. Since rhetoric is all he posts no matter the board. He's anti-anything normal and just another leftwingnut, "I wish-I-was-intellectually-elite moron in the shape of his President.

Project much?

[Nukeman]

I don't have a problem with real Christians. Just ones like you who cherry pick scripture to justify your petty vices, prejudices, bigotry and general meaness of spirit. You're not real Christians...it's simply to great of a stretch for your limited emotional and spiritual capacity.So tell me Bully, Where have I cherry picked anything regarding religion. Find ONE time I have done that!!

I have on a number of occasions taken your side in arguments and defended you, I pointed out a trend you have had of late and YOU attack me?? wow talk about projecting much.

Please find a post of mine that reflects anything YOU posted about me..
:poke:
Aren't you a Buddhist?? IF not my mistake if so, why so judgemental!?!?!?!?!

[PostmodernProphet]

Just ones like you who cherry pick scripture to justify your petty vices, prejudices, bigotry and general meaness of spirit.

man, that sound like a description of your posts........

[bullypulpit]

So tell me Bully, Where have I cherry picked anything regarding religion. Find ONE time I have done that!!

I have on a number of occasions taken your side in arguments and defended you, I pointed out a trend you have had of late and YOU attack me?? wow talk about projecting much.

Please find a post of mine that reflects anything YOU posted about me..
:poke:
Aren't you a Buddhist?? IF not my mistake if so, why so judgemental!?!?!?!?!

My apologies sir, for lumping you in with the louts who have failed to walk the walk...with those who mouth the words and teachings of Jesus, yet fail to understand or internalize their meaning and seek only to use the image of a wrathful deity to invoke fear and loathing in those people who...lost and adrift in the sea of misery that this economic and political climate has become...turn to any ray of hope. Even unto those who Jesus would have sent fleeing from the temple for the pharisees, hypocrites and money changers that they are. My apologies to you sir. And I never said I was a good Buddhist. ;)

[bullypulpit]

Do you agree with any of the following...?

1. God in His law requires the death penalty for homosexuals.

· 2. The state is a bankrupt institution. The only alternative to this bankrupt 'humanistic' system is a God-centered government.

· 3. God's covenant with Adam required him to exercise dominion over the earth and to subdue it (Gen. 1:26 ff) under God according to God's law-word.

· 4.The restoration of that covenant relationship was the work of Christ, His grace to His elect people.

· 5.The fulfillment of that covenant is their great commission: to subdue all things and all nations to Christ and His law-word.

· 6.Theocracy is not a government by the state but a government over every institution by God and His law, and through the activities of the free man in Christ to bring every area of life and thought under Christ's kingship.

· 7.The Christian is not hostile to reason as reason, but to Reason as god. The Christian does not believe in reason; he believes in God and he uses reason under God.

· 8.In the redeemed humanity, Christ rules over all things, state and church included.

· 9.The goal is the developed Kingdom of God, the New Jerusalem, a world order under God's law.

· 10.The significance of Jesus Christ as the "faithful and true witness" is that He not only witnesses against those who are at war against God, but He also executes them.

If so, you are part of the problem.

[Gunny]

There is, in the USA, a thing called 'Christianity' that has little to do with Christianity as it is generally understood in Europe, or in the longer view of the Christian tradition. It is a heavily nationalistic, militaristic, masculine, authoritarian cult, with Jesus as the Cadillac-Driving All-American Hero who has come to save his Chosen People from Gayness, Socialised Medicine, Arabs and Long Haired Hippies. This might best be called, "Amerireligion". This was deliberately created after the 1960s by the American right, who wanted a way to stop the changes begun by the Progressive Era and the New Deal and to restore the dominance of the old ruling class. The civil rights and anti-vietnam war era brought it to a head. The right saw an opportunity to appeal to the gut-instincts of the white working class blue collar American male by playing on his prejudices - particularly on matters such as race, alternative lifestyles and the sexual revolution. So there was a deliberate demonisation and vilification of those who were seen as 'different' from that red-blooded white-skinned American male ideal - they were 'liberal hippy tree hugging dirty commie atheist bastards' - not to be trusted, because they were 'anti-American' (when 'American' is defined by the hard right). So, basically, American christians hate atheists because their religion is really a sort of tribal nationalism, and they've been played for fools by right-wing politicians.


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Damn. You used to be normal. What happened?

[fj1200]

Do you agree with any of the following...?

1. ...

What Blither is this?

[jimnyc]

Do you agree with any of the following...?

1. God in His law requires the death penalty for homosexuals.

· 2. The state is a bankrupt institution. The only alternative to this bankrupt 'humanistic' system is a God-centered government.

· 3. God's covenant with Adam required him to exercise dominion over the earth and to subdue it (Gen. 1:26 ff) under God according to God's law-word.

· 4.The restoration of that covenant relationship was the work of Christ, His grace to His elect people.

· 5.The fulfillment of that covenant is their great commission: to subdue all things and all nations to Christ and His law-word.

· 6.Theocracy is not a government by the state but a government over every institution by God and His law, and through the activities of the free man in Christ to bring every area of life and thought under Christ's kingship.

· 7.The Christian is not hostile to reason as reason, but to Reason as god. The Christian does not believe in reason; he believes in God and he uses reason under God.

· 8.In the redeemed humanity, Christ rules over all things, state and church included.

· 9.The goal is the developed Kingdom of God, the New Jerusalem, a world order under God's law.

· 10.The significance of Jesus Christ as the "faithful and true witness" is that He not only witnesses against those who are at war against God, but He also executes them.

If so, you are part of the problem.

You may want to give a link to where you got these from, so as not to appear that you would attempt to pass them off as your own. :rolleyes: Just sayin'

[fj1200]

You may want to give a link to where you got these from, so as not to appear that you would attempt to pass them off as your own. :rolleyes: Just sayin'

Apparently he thinks R.J. Rushdoony speaks for all Christians.

[ConHog]

Why don't you Christian haters have the balls to really go after your agenda. You pout and scream that all Christians are out to convert the world as a giant Christian theocracy when that clearly isn't true.

What you REALLY want is for Christians not to even be able to practice our own faith. But deep down you realize that is never going to happen unless you can convince the world that we are a danger that we are not.

Essentially you are attempting to shoot Christians and then place a throwaway gun in our hands and scream "see I told you they were dangerous."

[bullypulpit]

Apparently he thinks R.J. Rushdoony speaks for all Christians.

DING!...DING!...DING!...We have a winner! Rousas John Rushdoony is indeed the writer of those words.

And no, I'm not making any such assertion. However, those who claim to speak for all Christians are the bastard intellectual children of R.J. Rushdoony. Folks like those evangelical leaders who recently endorsed Rick Santorum, are thoroughly steeped in the "Christian Reconstructionist" or "Dominionist" philosophy as outlined by Rushdoony. Politicians like James Inhoff, Chris Shays, Sarah Palin, Rick Perry and Rick Santorum are all influenced by this corrosive, and inherently, fundamentally anti-Christian philosophy.

[bullypulpit]

Why don't you Christian haters have the balls to really go after your agenda. You pout and scream that all Christians are out to convert the world as a giant Christian theocracy when that clearly isn't true.

What you REALLY want is for Christians not to even be able to practice our own faith. But deep down you realize that is never going to happen unless you can convince the world that we are a danger that we are not.

Essentially you are attempting to shoot Christians and then place a throwaway gun in our hands and scream "see I told you they were dangerous."

Are you so insecure in your own faith that you cannot tolerate honest criticism? The Constitution established a system which allows the free practice of religion in this nation. The only ones screaming about their freedom of religion being infringed upon are those whose claim to being Christian lies only in claiming to be so."Ye shall know them by their fruits"...and the fruits borne by the religious right, dressed in lambs clothing, for this country are bitter indeed.

[avatar4321]

That's so completely false that it couldn't possibly be the best anything.

[fj1200]

DING!...DING!...DING!...We have a winner! Rousas John Rushdoony is indeed the writer of those words.

And no, I'm not making any such assertion. However, those who claim to speak for all Christians are the bastard intellectual children of R.J. Rushdoony. Folks like those evangelical leaders who recently endorsed Rick Santorum, are thoroughly steeped in the "Christian Reconstructionist" or "Dominionist" philosophy as outlined by Rushdoony. Politicians like James Inhoff, Chris Shays, Sarah Palin, Rick Perry and Rick Santorum are all influenced by this corrosive, and inherently, fundamentally anti-Christian philosophy.

Oh brother. Find a few, demonize all eh?

[DragonStryk72]

I don't have a problem with real Christians. Just ones like you who cherry pick scripture to justify your petty vices, prejudices, bigotry and general meaness of spirit. You're not real Christians...it's simply to great of a stretch for your limited emotional and spiritual capacity.

Yes you do, apparently, because your quote never once mentions a difference. It paints every single Christian with the same brush, even ones who share some of your views, so don't try to act all high and mighty here. It just comes off as acting like an ass. You made no distinction about me, and I certainly have never used Christianity to allay any form of bigotry or hate.

And what of your prejudice, bigotry, and meanness of spirit? You're all set to speak against us, but you just drop an insult to more than 90% of the world, BP, with no distinctions made.

[bullypulpit]

Yes you do, apparently, because your quote never once mentions a difference. It paints every single Christian with the same brush, even ones who share some of your views, so don't try to act all high and mighty here. It just comes off as acting like an ass. You made no distinction about me, and I certainly have never used Christianity to allay any form of bigotry or hate.

And what of your prejudice, bigotry, and meanness of spirit? You're all set to speak against us, but you just drop an insult to more than 90% of the world, BP, with no distinctions made.


those who mouth the words and teachings of Jesus, yet fail to understand or internalize their meaning and seek only to use the image of a wrathful deity to invoke fear and loathing in those people who...lost and adrift in the sea of misery that this economic and political climate has become...turn to any ray of hope.

I do believe this constitutes differentiating between the Christians in name only (ChINO?) and real Christians. You know...the folks who walk the walk...who have done the hard work of examining their own lives in light of the teachings of Jesus and internalized those teachings and act upon them in service to their fellow man.

[cadet]

I've attempted to ignore this thread, but your pissing me off. EVERY Christian, is not a bad guy. We don't ALL think that Gov't should be run by the church. that happened in Europe, and we all know what happened then. (America was founded to get out of the pressure if you didn't catch that)

Now, I'm a pretty damn strong Christian, and i don't believe any of those stupid ideas you wrote down in your little list. Most of us stupid power hungry Christians, are just trying to get by and be happy with our lives, we're not all out to get you. if you want to practice your religion, then do so, AND LEAVE MY RELIGION OUT OF YOUR DISCUSSION!!! I could start a thread on how f-ed up Buddhism is, but i won't, because I'm not that stupid.

But i can try to stoop down to this level.

What is it? karma? Best watch yourself before you come back as a cockroach. And maybe think a little bit before you flat out insult a bunch of people. (and yes, i didn't think about it before i insulted you)

[logroller]

... I'm a pretty damn strong Christian...

:facepalm99:

[fj1200]

^Facepalm icon?!? Do you know how long I've been waiting for that one?

:disco:

[ConHog]

Are you so insecure in your own faith that you cannot tolerate honest criticism? The Constitution established a system which allows the free practice of religion in this nation. The only ones screaming about their freedom of religion being infringed upon are those whose claim to being Christian lies only in claiming to be so."Ye shall know them by their fruits"...and the fruits borne by the religious right, dressed in lambs clothing, for this country are bitter indeed.

Honest criticism? Yes, you start posting some and I'll be shouting "amen brother" from the rooftops.

[Thunderknuckles]

Are you so insecure in your own faith that you cannot tolerate honest criticism?

Your examples of honest criticism as seen below are anything but. They are insulting with the intent to provoke as was the original quote you began the thread with.

Religion, at its most fundamental level, is the magical thinking of children run amok in th hands of adults....

Americans, in their despair, have succumbed to the lure of the magical world where God has a plan for them...

They have fled from the reality based world to one of magical thinking...


Anyone expecting an honest discussion with someone who begins by calling you a child with no grasp of reality is a fool.
Turn and walk away.

[bullypulpit]

Your examples of honest criticism as seen below are anything but. They are insulting with the intent to provoke as was the original quote you began the thread with.


Anyone expecting an honest discussion with someone who begins by calling you a child with no grasp of reality is a fool.
Turn and walk away.

How is it not honest criticism? If one honestly examines religion...any religion...they cannot help but see the semblance between the magical thinking of children and the magical thinking the leaders of a given religion attribute to their favorite deity. In the hands of adults though, it can often take a darker, more menacing turn.

If you are unwilling to make that introspective journey on your own...well, that's your loss.


Oh brother. Find a few, demonize all eh?

No, not at all, as I've said many times before.

[darin]

How is it not honest criticism? If one honestly examines religion...any religion...they cannot help but see the semblance between the magical thinking of children and the magical thinking the leaders of a given religion attribute to their favorite deity. In the hands of adults though, it can often take a darker, more menacing turn.

If you are unwilling to make that introspective journey on your own...well, that's your loss.


passive-agressive is beneath you, BP. You are smart enough to know you're coupling your 'criticism' with 'left-handed' or demeaning conclusions.

[bullypulpit]

Yes you do, apparently, because your quote never once mentions a difference. It paints every single Christian with the same brush, even ones who share some of your views, so don't try to act all high and mighty here. It just comes off as acting like an ass. You made no distinction about me, and I certainly have never used Christianity to allay any form of bigotry or hate.

And what of your prejudice, bigotry, and meanness of spirit? You're all set to speak against us, but you just drop an insult to more than 90% of the world, BP, with no distinctions made.

No, it doesn't. I have always, and ever will, differentiate between those who simply mouth the words of biblical scripture lacking even the mos basic understanding of what they mean and those who walk the walk.

And no, Christians do not compromise 90% of the world...not even 50%...

3161
Source:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm


I've attempted to ignore this thread, but your pissing me off. EVERY Christian, is not a bad guy. We don't ALL think that Gov't should be run by the church. that happened in Europe, and we all know what happened then. (America was founded to get out of the pressure if you didn't catch that)

Now, I'm a pretty damn strong Christian, and i don't believe any of those stupid ideas you wrote down in your little list. Most of us stupid power hungry Christians, are just trying to get by and be happy with our lives, we're not all out to get you. if you want to practice your religion, then do so, AND LEAVE MY RELIGION OUT OF YOUR DISCUSSION!!! I could start a thread on how f-ed up Buddhism is, but i won't, because I'm not that stupid.

But i can try to stoop down to this level.

What is it? karma? Best watch yourself before you come back as a cockroach. And maybe think a little bit before you flat out insult a bunch of people. (and yes, i didn't think about it before i insulted you)

Why do you, and your fellow travelers, insist on construing criticism of the most extreme elements of the religious right in this country as an attack on all Christians? It's not. Or is it simply some sort of tribal mentality where an attack on one , no matter how justified, is an attack on all. Either way, you're wrong. Until you, and your fellow travelers, accept the fact that those Jesus would have branded hypocrites and pharisees damage your faith as a whole, you will continue to feel insulted by each and every criticism of them until you repudiate them and their ignorance.

[darin]

The issue I have with 'taking offense' at criticism is - 'taking offense' typically flies in the face of the teachings of Christ. (shrug). I'm of the opinion a humble person can't be offended. Humility is at the core of Christianity. I EXPECT liberals to say terrible horrible things - and they do. I expect liberals to support slavery, hatred, and other policies which counter truth, freedom, and love. I expect godless to rant and rave against what they fear most; God. I'm not surprise nor offended with folks turning their backs on their Creator. Folks who have closed their minds to Truth will most-always hate anything that counters the comfort zone they've created.

[bullypulpit]

The issue I have with 'taking offense' at criticism is - 'taking offense' typically flies in the face of the teachings of Christ. (shrug). I'm of the opinion a humble person can't be offended. Humility is at the core of Christianity. I EXPECT liberals to say terrible horrible things - and they do. I expect liberals to support slavery, hatred, and other policies which counter truth, freedom, and love. I expect godless to rant and rave against what they fear most; God. I'm not surprise nor offended with folks turning their backs on their Creator. Folks who have closed their minds to Truth will most-always hate anything that counters the comfort zone they've created.

Please, by all means, provide links citing liberals advocating "...slavery, hatred, and other policies which counter truth, freedom, and love...". And what is there to fear from an entity for which there is not one shred of tangible, independently and objectively verifiable evidence? I'll be waiting.

[cadet]

The issue I have with 'taking offense' at criticism is - 'taking offense' typically flies in the face of the teachings of Christ. (shrug). I'm of the opinion a humble person can't be offended. Humility is at the core of Christianity. I EXPECT liberals to say terrible horrible things - and they do. I expect liberals to support slavery, hatred, and other policies which counter truth, freedom, and love. I expect godless to rant and rave against what they fear most; God. I'm not surprise nor offended with folks turning their backs on their Creator. Folks who have closed their minds to Truth will most-always hate anything that counters the comfort zone they've created.

there's a point where humility goes too far. If I accept that i shouldn't stand up for what i believe in, what's the point in believing it?

Just an example, say someones bashing your sister, you EXPECT them to say it, so it's ok.

Someone starts bashing your God and people, and it's ok?

[Gunny]

There is, in the USA, a thing called 'Christianity' that has little to do with Christianity as it is generally understood in Europe, or in the longer view of the Christian tradition. It is a heavily nationalistic, militaristic, masculine, authoritarian cult, with Jesus as the Cadillac-Driving All-American Hero who has come to save his Chosen People from Gayness, Socialised Medicine, Arabs and Long Haired Hippies. This might best be called, "Amerireligion". This was deliberately created after the 1960s by the American right, who wanted a way to stop the changes begun by the Progressive Era and the New Deal and to restore the dominance of the old ruling class. The civil rights and anti-vietnam war era brought it to a head. The right saw an opportunity to appeal to the gut-instincts of the white working class blue collar American male by playing on his prejudices - particularly on matters such as race, alternative lifestyles and the sexual revolution. So there was a deliberate demonisation and vilification of those who were seen as 'different' from that red-blooded white-skinned American male ideal - they were 'liberal hippy tree hugging dirty commie atheist bastards' - not to be trusted, because they were 'anti-American' (when 'American' is defined by the hard right). So, basically, American christians hate atheists because their religion is really a sort of tribal nationalism, and they've been played for fools by right-wing politicians.


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*yawn*

So sayeth the guy with the Ron Paul avatar. Maybe you need to switch from that Kool Aid you're drinking and actually take the red pill and get your rear end back to reality.:laugh:

[Abbey Marie]

...
Why do you, and your fellow travelers, insist on construing criticism of the most extreme elements of the religious right in this country as an attack on all Christians? It's not. Or is it simply some sort of tribal mentality where an attack on one , no matter how justified, is an attack on all. Either way, you're wrong. Until you, and your fellow travelers, accept the fact that those Jesus would have branded hypocrites and pharisees damage your faith as a whole, you will continue to feel insulted by each and every criticism of them until you repudiate them and their ignorance.

Well, Bully, I would suggest you take a few steps back and get a really long look at yourself in the mirror. Just about every post you make on this board, and I'll bet on others as well, is an attack on Christianity. Almost. every. one.

Until you, and your fellow travelers, accept the fact that no amount of Christianphobic belittling can change the truth about Jesus, I suppose you will continue to wage your sad, unwinnable war to attempt to destroy the faith of others.

Btw, Church was great this morning! Worshiping God in song with others is so cool. Sorry you can never know the peace and joy that can bring.

[bullypulpit]

Well, Bully, I would suggest you take a few steps back and get a really long look at yourself in the mirror. Just about every post you make on this board, and I'll bet on others as well, is an attack on Christianity. Almost. every. one.

Until you, and your fellow travelers, accept the fact that no amount of Christianphobic belittling can change the truth about Jesus, I suppose you will continue to wage your sad, unwinnable war to attempt to destroy the faith of others.

Btw, Church was great this morning! Worshiping God in song with others is so cool. Sorry you can never know the peace and joy that can bring.

The "truth about Jesus" is that there is not truth to be had. The Council of Nicea saw to that. As to your experiences in church, I'm glad you find comfort amongst your fellow believers. But to paraphrase William James from "The Varieties of Religious Experience", just as the general cut of a garment is not a proper fit for all, so too is a given religious doctrine not a proper fit for all. I find peace and comfort from quiet reflection...the smile and laughter of a child...the thanks from a patient or their family member for the care I give them. I find my peace and comfort in the world around me. A path for you... a path for me. So it is with everyone...there is a path for each and everyone of us. To insist that one path is fit for all is hubris.

[Abbey Marie]

The "truth about Jesus" is that there is not truth to be had. The Council of Nicea saw to that. As to your experiences in church, I'm glad you find comfort amongst your fellow believers. But to paraphrase William James from "The Varieties of Religious Experience", just as the general cut of a garment is not a proper fit for all, so too is a given religious doctrine not a proper fit for all. I find peace and comfort from quiet reflection...the smile and laughter of a child...the thanks from a patient or their family member for the care I give them. I find my peace and comfort in the world around me. A path for you... a path for me. So it is with everyone...there is a path for each and everyone of us. To insist that one path is fit for all is hubris.

If so, then it is Christ's hubris, not mine:
"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

[bullypulpit]

If so, then it is Christ's hubris, not mine:
"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

No, it is the hubris of all who insist there is only one path for all. And the great flaw of revealed religions. God's word depends upon whoever happens to be interpreting scripture and dogma.

Jealous deities...too much like people to be worthy of devotion, let alone worship.

[LuvRPgrl]

No, it is the hubris of all who insist there is only one path for all. And the great flaw of revealed religions. God's word depends upon whoever happens to be interpreting scripture and dogma.

Jealous deities...too much like people to be worthy of devotion, let alone worship.

You dont have a clue as to what a TRUE Christian is.

What is our purpose on earth?
How do we enter the kingdom of heaven.?
How can you know if a person is a true christian or not?

Person A cheats on his wife and robs banks, is he a christian?
Person B goes to church 3 days a week, does not steal, prays and asks Jesus daily for helpl, is he a christian?

[logroller]

You dont have a clue as to what a TRUE Christian is.

What is our purpose on earth?
How do we enter the kingdom of heaven.?
How can you know if a person is a true christian or not?

Person A cheats on his wife and robs banks, is he a christian?
Person B goes to church 3 days a week, does not steal, prays and asks Jesus daily for helpl, is he a christian?
Person C does none of the above, but accepts Christ as his Savior. Is he a Christian?
and what is truth? Is it something you attain or find-- or rather, something you seek?
and what does truth have to do with being Christian; can one be a false Christian?
Can a jew or athiest not seek truth, or be true to their beliefs?

We could go on and on posing questions....but the moral foundation for all freedoms stems from this-- any person, (who has the capacity to reason), has a moral duty to seek truth; but that doesn't convey a moral duty for others to accept it.
Like my dad says, "I don't know if Catholicism is the right, but its right for me!"