How to kill the GOP

[pegwinn]

I've always liked the doomsday movies. I think this is the political equivelent. And, the Maya predictions might not be literal..... they might be political.


Does Johnson defection doom the GOP?December 29, 2011. Santa Fe. When former Governor Gary Johnson announced yesterday that he was quitting the Republican Party and taking his Presidential campaign to the Libertarian Party, it wasn’t much of a surprise. The conservative libertarian and former Republican Governor has been flirting with a party switch for weeks. In fact, word of Johnson’s inevitable move to the Libertarian Party leaked out over a week ago. What nobody seems to be talking about is the effect this has on the general election.

-more- (http://www.examiner.com/independent-in-national/does-johnson-defection-doom-the-gop)

[Kathianne]

I've always liked the doomsday movies. I think this is the political equivelent. And, the Maya predictions might not be literal..... they might be political.

Time will tell. I don't think he'll make inroads on Romney or Gingrich. Paul? Likely. Now will any of the libertarian votes kill only GOP? I'm not convinced. Having been in tea party from the beginning, will state here and before that perhaps 1/3 or more of support was libertarians, thus they drain off mostly from moderates of both parties. Those that want lower taxes foremost.

[pegwinn]

Did you get a chance to read the different scenarios? Imagine a Paul/Johnson or Johnson/Paul ticket.


You get tea partiers or a significant chunk of them.
You siphon off a bunch of college age kids from both sides.
You get RP's machine. Paulitics might be anti-politics in one sense, but his machine is the envy of the GOP right now. It has managed to go through the stages of media denial, GOP denial, and into the top tier. That machine working against Romney/xxxx and Obama/xxxx will siphon resources from both.


This might either doom the GOP and give Obama a second term or it might send the general election to the house of representatives.

Talk about bad karma, terrible juju, and upside down mojo........ I bet some folks would lose some serious sleep.

[PostmodernProphet]

nobody paid attention to him when he was a Republican.....do you think that's going to change if he's a Libertarian?.......

[Gunny]

I've always liked the doomsday movies. I think this is the political equivelent. And, the Maya predictions might not be literal..... they might be political.

I figure they just need to keep up the stupid squabbling among candidates.

[Shadow]

I figure they just need to keep up the stupid squabbling among candidates.

Gary Johnson and his supporters (at least the ones that have radios shows...and claim to be good friends with him). Are almost as obnoxious as Ron Raul people. They know they don't stand a chance of winning, and they could careless if we get stuck with another 4 years of Obama. This is just a way to stick it to the people they feel wronged them during primary season as a payback....and to feed his ego in the process.

[Gunny]

Gary Johnson and his supporters (at least the ones that have radios shows...and claim to be good friends with him). Are almost as obnoxious as Ron Raul people. They know they don't stand a chance of winning, and they could careless if we get stuck with another 4 years of Obama. This is just a way to stick it to the people they feel wronged them during primary season as a payback....and to feed his ego in the process.

Problem is, the thread title is correct. When Republicans start calling themselves something else and split from the GOP and won't vote unless it's their candidate, it splinters the GOP. There are too many groups each calling themselves "true" conservatives unwilling to compromise with the others.

[gabosaurus]

You want to kill the GOP? Give the nomination to Michele Bachmann or Ron Paul.

A strong third party bid will assure Obama a second term, but it won't kill the GOP.

[Shadow]

Problem is, the thread title is correct. When Republicans start calling themselves something else and split from the GOP and won't vote unless it's their candidate, it splinters the GOP. There are too many groups each calling themselves "true" conservatives unwilling to compromise with the others.

I agree. Whats sad is, If Gary Johnson gets the nomination and runs...he is just going to hand over a swing state to Obama on a silver platter.

[pegwinn]

Gary Johnson and his supporters (at least the ones that have radios shows...and claim to be good friends with him). Are almost as obnoxious as Ron Raul people. They know they don't stand a chance of winning, and they could careless if we get stuck with another 4 years of Obama. This is just a way to stick it to the people they feel wronged them during primary season as a payback....and to feed his ego in the process.

I've never dealt with Gov Johnsons folks. Come to think of it, the only Ron Paul people I personally know are very local. Since I am never obnoxious I can't verify the truthers of the RP people in general being more obnoxious.

But, Shadow, you are dead on right about it being my way or the highway. Obama sucks and so does every candidate the GOP is pushing right now. The R's and D's nowadays are all the same in all the places that matter to me. Note the emphasis please. Voting is not a team sport in my opinion and right now we are offered the six of one and half dozen of the other.

I'll be watching to see how well this plays out. If Paul doesn't get the nod, and we are stuck with Romney and/or Newt (or the others to a lesser extent), a surge in the Libertarians might not bring the white house but might start a snowball in the next Congressional election cycle.


You want to kill the GOP? Give the nomination to Michele Bachmann or Ron Paul.

A strong third party bid will assure Obama a second term, but it won't kill the GOP.

I dunno Gabby. Historically, the onslaught of a third party has killed one of the top two. I would love to see a third party become mainstream. But, history shows that is really unlikely to happen in this country.

[gabosaurus]

Any third party vote dooms the party that the candidate breaks off from. Can you imagine Johnson getting the nod and offering the VP to someone like Sarah Palin? That would push a large portion of GOP voters out of the party realm. It would also endanger a lot of GOP congressional candidates who need the trickle down votes.

[Shadow]

Any third party vote dooms the party that the candidate breaks off from. Can you imagine Johnson getting the nod and offering the VP to someone like Sarah Palin? That would push a large portion of GOP voters out of the party realm. It would also endanger a lot of GOP congressional candidates who need the trickle down votes.

Gary Johnson would never pick Sarah Palin...it would send his supporters into seizures.

[DragonStryk72]

The GOP seems to be doing a more than adequate job of destroying itself at the current moment, it hardly needs help. I can totally understand a candidate deciding that he's sick of it and going over to a party that his principles are more in line with.

[revelarts]

Gary Johnson and his supporters (at least the ones that have radios shows...and claim to be good friends with him). Are almost as obnoxious as Ron Raul people. They know they don't stand a chance of winning, and they could careless if we get stuck with another 4 years of Obama. This is just a way to stick it to the people they feel wronged them during primary season as a payback....and to feed his ego in the process.

I get the impression that'd you'd vote for Ron Paul or Gary Johnson if they did (by some miricle) get the R nomination.

Some here have said that they could NEVER vote for Paul, are they "obnoxious" and splintering the vote as well? or does that just go one way?

I honestly don't see a dimes worth or difference in Romney and Obama, same policy on war, same on Obama care, (well check the wind to see what Romney says today) , same on Civil liberties, Slight difference in economy but not significant. seriously why should I vote for more of the same. obama and Bush are doing the same Easing bailouts war, faux safety.

Newt Is Big gov't as well as Obama, same on war as Obama ie Covert action, which is what we have right now in Iran.

Perry is Bush Light. But the same ol big gov't , big war programs.

Am I generalizing to much.
Can someone point out one or 2 significant differences in what i can expect the GOP candidates would really do compared to Obama. I'll vote for an R other than Paul if you can give me a couple of real small gov't , constitutional bones.

If not why should i bother to vote.

Show me some bones. I've never not voted , I've voted R nearly all my life. But I don't care about the "party" if they don't care about the constitution or small gov't or me.

[jimnyc]

How do you kill the GOP? Convince people that this is where "conservatives" are and then give them candidates that are far from conservative.

[Shadow]

I get the impression that'd you'd vote for Ron Paul or Gary Johnson if they did (by some miricle) get the R nomination.

Some here have said that they could NEVER vote for Paul, are they "obnoxious" and splintering the vote as well? or does that just go one way?

I honestly don't see a dimes worth or difference in Romney and Obama, same policy on war, same on Obama care, (well check the wind to see what Romney says today) , same on Civil liberties, Slight difference in economy but not significant. seriously why should I vote for more of the same. obama and Bush are doing the same Easing bailouts war, faux safety.

Newt Is Big gov't as well as Obama, same on war as Obama ie Covert action, which is what we have right now in Iran.

Perry is Bush Light. But the same ol big gov't , big war programs.

Am I generalizing to much.
Can someone point out one or 2 significant differences in what i can expect the GOP candidates would really do compared to Obama. I'll vote for an R other than Paul if you can give me a couple of real small gov't , constitutional bones.

If not why should i bother to vote.

Show me some bones. I've never not voted , I've voted R nearly all my life. But I don't care about the "party" if they don't care about the constitution or small gov't or me.

I would probably vote for Gary Johnson over Ron Paul just based on his views on foreign policy and homeland security not being as extreme. Don't know If I would vote for Ron Paul if he was my only choice though. He is too anti Israel for my taste...and his foreign policy is too far left for me.

[jimnyc]

i would probably vote for gary johnson over ron paul just based on his views on foreign policy and homeland security not being as extreme. Don't know if i would vote for ron paul if he was my only choice though. he is too anti israel for my taste...and his foreign policy is too far left for me.

*duck*!!!!!!

[gabosaurus]

Ron Paul is "too far left?" :eek: Seriously? :eek:

[revelarts]

I would probably vote for Gary Johnson over Ron Paul just based on his views on foreign policy and homeland security not being as extreme. Don't know If I would vote for Ron Paul if he was my only choice though. He is too anti Israel for my taste...and his foreign policy is too far left for me.
I won't debate the "left" comment other than to say that GWBush before his 1st election said he wasn't for nation building or foreign wars either.. and it wasn't left then. And If neutral mean Anti Israel then ..Ok , "..Not for us your against us ".. fine.

But some imply it's anti Party and disloyal and even traitorous not to vote for the R nominee.
But I agree with you, If the candidate doesn't live up to your standards on to many important issues and the other parties candidate is just as bad why should you compromise your principals for the sake of a party that has left you. I've voted R holding my nose many times because a candidate said they would act on 1 or 2 issues that I agreed with them on only to be largley disappointed even on those issues. So my trust level is at an all time low and party loyal just is just joke to me if it only means i have to be loyal to the party and they don't have to keep any of the promises it's made for my votes.

[Gunny]

I won't debate the "left" comment other than to say that GWBush before his 1st election said he wasn't for nation building or foreign wars either.. and it wasn't left then. And If neutral mean Anti Israel then ..Ok , "..Not for us your against us ".. fine.

But some imply it's anti Party and disloyal and even traitorous not to vote for the R nominee.
But I agree with you, If the candidate doesn't live up to your standards on to many important issues and the other parties candidate is just as bad why should you compromise your principals for the sake of a party that has left you. I've voted R holding my nose many times because a candidate said they would act on 1 or 2 issues that I agreed with them on only to disappointed even on those issues. So my trust level is at an all time low and party loyal just is joke to me if it only means i have to be loyal to the party and they don't have to keep any of the promises it's made for my votes.

People like you need to get a clue. That "Why should I compromise my principles?" crap I heard before the 2008 election. Look what THAT's done for us.

The simple fact is, I'll take do-nothing Republicans over fuck-everything-up driving us further down the shitter with leftist agenda Dem's ANY and EVERY day. If your short-sightedness can't get you to see that getting Obama OUT is as important if not more than who is going IN, you're beyond help.

[revelarts]

People like you need to get a clue. That "Why should I compromise my principles?" crap I heard before the 2008 election. Look what THAT's done for us.

The simple fact is, I'll take do-nothing Republicans over fuck-everything-up driving us further down the shitter with leftist agenda Dem's ANY and EVERY day. If your short-sightedness can't get you to see that getting Obama OUT is as important if not more than who is going IN, you're beyond help.

D just drive different big gov agendas, R's end up passing the same in 3 year programs.

Why should I vote for a slow boat to hell on the right side of the river over the leftside that's a bit faster?



But give me a some hope Gunny what candidate is going to stop Obama care? And give us our civil rights back to constitutional levels? or Stop the bail outs? or Spending more money? or something?

[Gunny]

D just drive different big gov agendas, R's end up passing the same in 3 year programs.

Why should I vote for a slow boat to hell on the right side of the river over the leftside that's a bit faster?



But give me a some hope Gunny what candidate is going to stop Obama care? And give us our civil rights back to constitutional levels? or Stop the bail outs? or Spending more money? or something?

Whatever. Do as you please. It's my opinion that if you don't vote, you don't have the right to bitch.

[revelarts]

Whatever. Do as you please. It's my opinion that if you don't vote, you don't have the right to bitch.
So there's no candidate that's really going to do anything different than Obama is what your telling me?
I'm looking and i think I found one. I don't agree with everything he says but I agree with Most. I'll be voting for him in the primaries. and if he doesn't get the nomination I might vote for the constitution party Guy or stay home but people allways have the right to B-. people living in China and the old USSR had the right to B-. they didn't have much choice over their leaderships actions either.

[jimnyc]

So there's no candidate that's really going to do anything different than Obama is what your telling me?
I'm looking and i think I found one. I don't agree with everything he says but I agree with Most. I'll be voting for him in the primaries. and if he doesn't get the nomination I might vote for the constitution party Guy or stay home but people allways have the right to B-. people living in China and the old USSR had the right to B-. they didn't have much choice over their leaderships actions either.

We know, you're voting for the lying racist who refuses to detail how he made over a million dollars on said racism. Shows his homophobia, wanting Israel gone altogether and defends Hitler. Yay! Happy Voting!!

[Gunny]

So there's no candidate that's really going to do anything different than Obama is what your telling me?
I'm looking and i think I found one. I don't agree with everything he says but I agree with Most. I'll be voting for him in the primaries. and if he doesn't get the nomination I might vote for the constitution party Guy or stay home but people allways have the right to B-. people living in China and the old USSR had the right to B-. they didn't have much choice over their leaderships actions either.

Obviously that's NOT what I'm telling you. Geez, where did you learn your reading and comprehension?

I said it plain and simple: getting Obama OUT of office is as important if not more than who goes INTO office. That means ANY of the candidates on the right are more qualified than he is. Of course I said that before. But people like you who put your personal idealism above logic and common sense don't get THAT.

I'll also point out this fact:

T Roosevelt split the GOP with his Bull Moose party. Woodrow Wilson won.

Ross Perot split the GOP with his Independent bullshit. Clinton won.

In 2008, conservatives all said if they couldn't get "their guy", they weren't voting. Obama won.

It ain't rocket science.

[Shadow]

I won't debate the "left" comment other than to say that GWBush before his 1st election said he wasn't for nation building or foreign wars either.. and it wasn't left then. And If neutral mean Anti Israel then ..Ok , "..Not for us your against us ".. fine.

But some imply it's anti Party and disloyal and even traitorous not to vote for the R nominee.
But I agree with you, If the candidate doesn't live up to your standards on to many important issues and the other parties candidate is just as bad why should you compromise your principals for the sake of a party that has left you. I've voted R holding my nose many times because a candidate said they would act on 1 or 2 issues that I agreed with them on only to be largley disappointed even on those issues. So my trust level is at an all time low and party loyal just is just joke to me if it only means i have to be loyal to the party and they don't have to keep any of the promises it's made for my votes.

I would rather have balance in washington than be a stickler for my "principles". People who sat home because they didn't like McCain last time around gave us something much worse... not only did we get Obama...but a Dem led senate and house. To me it is more important to pick your battles...I don't see just handing over the whole shebang to the Dems because I won't compromise as being a very wise choice.

[revelarts]

I would rather have balance in washington than be a stickler for my "principles". People who sat home because they didn't like McCain last time around gave us something much worse... not only did we get Obama...but a Dem led senate and house. To me it is more important to pick your battles...I don't see just handing over the whole shebang to the Dems because I won't compromise as being a very wise choice.
So you and Gunny would vote for Ron Paul then, who's only neg issue for many is his so called foreign policy? Just to get Obama out.

[Shadow]

So you and Gunny would vote for Ron Paul then, who's only neg issue for many is his so called foreign policy? Just to get Obama out.

If he actually won the Republican nomination I would consider it...but not as a third party candidate though (and not in the primaries if I could participate). I couldn't stand John McCain...hated that he was even nominated,but even then...he was a way better choice then Obama ever was. Same thing here.

[Gunny]

So you and Gunny would vote for Ron Paul then, who's only neg issue for many is his so called foreign policy? Just to get Obama out.

Ron Paul has about as much chance of winning the GOP primary as he has the last however-many-times he's run. He's dropped out of the race every time.

[Gunny]

If he actually won the Republican nomination I would consider it...but not as a third party candidate though (and not in the primaries if I could participate). I couldn't stand John McCain...hated that he was even nominated,but even then...he was a way better choice then Obama ever was. Same thing here.

The GOP let the media choose McCain. He wasn't the popular choice. Obama was the media's darling and McCain had the least chance of beating him. Kind of crosses threads. Rev has a way of believing whatever the media tells him. A lot of people do. In the lead-up to McCain coming out of nowhere at the last minute he was, well, nowhere.

And I'm with you. He made his name going against the GOP in the Senate. Now the GOP expected conservatives to support him?

[revelarts]

Ron Paul has about as much chance of winning the GOP primary as he has the last however-many-times he's run. He's dropped out of the race every time.
Hypothetically Gunny, if he was the GOP candidate against Obama would you vote for him since you say anyone would better than Obama?

Shadow says she'd consider it which is honest. maybe she would maybe she wouldn't.
Foreign policy, One issue is enough for her to think Obama may be better overall i guess. i can respect that choice even though i don't agree. What's your take Gunny, hypothetically?

[Shadow]

The GOP let the media choose McCain. He wasn't the popular choice. Obama was the media's darling and McCain had the least chance of beating him. Kind of crosses threads. Rev has a way of believing whatever the media tells him. A lot of people do. In the lead-up to McCain coming out of nowhere at the last minute he was, well, nowhere.

And I'm with you. He made his name going against the GOP in the Senate. Now the GOP expected conservatives to support him?

I couldn't believe the republicans nominated McCain...then I learned that in a lot of republican primaries the dems were crossing over and voting for him (that and infighting among other conservatives gave us that stinker). McCain actually had several things going for him even though he was a crappy choice. I even thought he might even pull it off. The disgruntled hillary supporters backed him, and stated working hard for his campaign. Sarah Palin excited conservatives. But the idiot kept throwing a wrench in his own machine...and wouldn't fight for it. And even STILL kept throwing people under the bus. Some things never change with McCain.

[Gunny]

Hypothetically Gunny, if he was the GOP candidate against Obama would you vote for him since you say anyone would better than Obama?

Shadow says she'd consider it which is honest. maybe she would maybe she wouldn't.
Foreign policy, One issue is enough for her to think Obama may be better overall i guess. i can respect that choice even though i don't agree. What's your take Gunny, hypothetically?

I would consider it as well, but it isn't going to happen.

Quit fixating on his foreign policy. Even a GOP controlled Congress wouldn't let him get his way.

[Shadow]

Hypothetically Gunny, if he was the GOP candidate against Obama would you vote for him since you say anyone would better than Obama?

Shadow says she'd consider it which is honest. maybe she would maybe she wouldn't.
Foreign policy, One issue is enough for her to think Obama may be better overall i guess. i can respect that choice even though i don't agree. What's your take Gunny, hypothetically?

Wrong. I would never think Obama was better overall...I even said as much.

[Gunny]

Wrong. I would never think Obama was better overall...I even said as much.

The only thing I'd vote for in regard to Obama is removal from office.

[jimnyc]

Hypothetically Gunny, if he was the GOP candidate against Obama would you vote for him since you say anyone would better than Obama?

Shadow says she'd consider it which is honest. maybe she would maybe she wouldn't.
Foreign policy, One issue is enough for her to think Obama may be better overall i guess. i can respect that choice even though i don't agree. What's your take Gunny, hypothetically?

Hypothetically, since it has about as much of a chance of happening as monkeys flying out of the Queen's ass? Hypothetically, I'd go for Paul against Obama. I think they're both racist, so that negates that one. Paul's foreign policy is funny, and Obama just bows to anyone, so that negates that one. But if the vote was simply between the 2 of them, it would be based on the lesser of 2 evils in my opinion, and Paul would win out.

[revelarts]

Wrong. I would never think Obama was better overall...I even said as much.


The only thing I'd vote for in regard to Obama is removal from office.

Ok so I just don't get how you could just consider voting for Paul and not just say. I'd vote for any republicain candidate including Paul against Obama.
I mean what's to consider, if Paul is better than Obama overall , that is considering everything.

From my POV
Romeny and Obama are not that different at all,
Gingrinch and Obama are a bit different but both are big gov't, just aggressive in different areas, and both are anti constitutional globalist.
Perry is Bush light just as Obama is Bush Left.
I Like a lot of what Bachmann has to say, i 100% with her on Abortion and Crony capitalism but She's seems less concerned about the constitution and civil liberties lost over the decades , which for me are fundemental issues. as i've said before, if we don't have a POTUS and Congress that believes the constitution and bill of right mean much then all other questions are moot. people in jail are safe from a lot of things, except the jailers who make the rules willy nilly, and after that say "it's DA law".

Ron Paul seems to be the only guy that is a serious alternative to Obama and most others IMO.

[Shadow]

Hypothetically, since it has about as much of a chance of happening as monkeys flying out of the Queen's ass? Hypothetically, I'd go for Paul against Obama. I think they're both racist, so that negates that one. Paul's foreign policy is funny, and Obama just bows to anyone, so that negates that one. But if the vote was simply between the 2 of them, it would be based on the lesser of 2 evils in my opinion, and Paul would win out.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on it as well. I would have to hold my nose and vote for Ron Paul...just like I had to for McCain. Something the Paul supporters refused to do themselves.

[revelarts]

There are probably a few Ron Paul supporters that would vote for some other candidate while holding there noses as well.
I'll admit I'm not one of them. for the reasons i stated above. I did that the 2nd Bush term and will never do it again.

I just don't get why it's not Ok for me to do that and where all the anger comes from for me and others NOT supporting candidates we don't like and are not ENOUGH of a LESSER of 2 evils, I'm sick of voting for evil.
I wouldn't begudge any of you for not voting at all for Paul, i wouldn't like it but I could understand it as a principal position I just don't get anger coming from your POVs on this. Maybe it's a world view thing, that the you think that the D and R are really a LOT different so it doesn't make sense to you . But on Forign policy Obama is doing almost exactly as Bush, On the domestic side nearly the only thing different he's doing is pushing health care, all of the other other budget items are continuation of Bush and congressional stimulus policies, and bailouts. Where the beef I guess is my question?
if anyone can show me significant differences in the governace of any of the other candidates I'll vote for them.

Concerning McCain I'm not sure what would be different there either. No Obama Care oK you got me there. What else. we'd be at war with Iran Already, Hey I don't want that so that's not a plus IMO. either way moe big gov't, less civil liberties.

Just give me a good REASON to vote for any other R candidate other than "well he's not Obama".

Thats rational enough request seems to me.

[Gunny]

There are probably a few Ron Paul supporters that would vote for some other candidate while holding there noses as well.
I'll admit I'm not one of them. for the reasons i stated above. I did that the 2nd Bush term and will never do it again.

I just don't get why it's not Ok for me to do that and where all the anger comes from for me and others NOT supporting candidates we don't like and are not ENOUGH of a LESSER of 2 evils, I'm sick of voting for evil.
I wouldn't begudge any of you for not voting at all for Paul, i wouldn't like it but I could understand it as a principal position I just don't get anger coming from your POVs on this. Maybe it's a world view thing, that the you think that the D and R are really a LOT different so it doesn't make sense to you . But on Forign policy Obama is doing almost exactly as Bush, On the domestic side nearly the only thing different he's doing is pushing health care, all of the other other budget items are continuation of Bush and congressional stimulus policies, and bailouts. Where the beef I guess is my question?
if anyone can show me significant differences in the governace of any of the other candidates I'll vote for them.

Concerning McCain I'm not sure what would be different there either. No Obama Care oK you got me there. What else. we'd be at war with Iran Already, Hey I don't want that so that's not a plus IMO. either way moe big gov't, less civil liberties.

Just give me a good REASON to vote for any other R candidate other than "well he's not Obama".

Thats rational enough request seems to me.

Then YOU have issues and cannot see the forest for the trees. I have anger for ANYONE that would sit back and abstain and allow Obama a second term, so don't feel special.

The fact you will support Ron Paul and only Ron Paul is absurd to me. He doesn't stand any more chance this time around than he has the last 3 or 4. On this subject, as well as the military and war, you let you idealism outweigh ANY logic or common sense. EVEN IF for some miraculous reason Paul got the GOP nomination, the GOP would lose the election. EVEN IF by some miracle Ron Paul won the Presidency, he wouldn't get ANYTHING past Congress. He'd be another Jimmy Carter. The second he tried enacting any of his kookie ideas, his own party would not support him in Congress.

Why don't you try coming out of la-la land and take a look at reality?

[pegwinn]

Something the Paul supporters refused to do themselves.

That isn't thier fault. It's the GOP's fault for not putting up a candidate worthy of the office. I understand pragmatism, lord knows I have done or helped do a shitload of "pragmatic" stuff. I guess everyone has a bullshit meter that eventually gets pegged out.


I just don't get why it's not Ok for me to do that and where all the anger comes from for me and others NOT supporting candidates we don't like and are not ENOUGH of a LESSER of 2 evils, I'm sick of voting for evil.

Yep. That pisses me off to the point of serious anger. And, i have noticed a lot more of that going on in this election cycle. That whole "the party is all" crap should have died out when the Soviet Union finally collapsed.


EVEN IF by some miracle Ron Paul won the Presidency, he wouldn't get ANYTHING past Congress. He'd be another Jimmy Carter. The second he tried enacting any of his kookie ideas, his own party would not support him in Congress.

I think he'd be a bit more effective than Jimmy was. If nothing else, his election might send a message to the party hacks that business-as-usual wasn't going to cut it. And, even if his party didn't support him - that blade slices both ways. Between the Vetoes and Bully Pulpit, the country would get a serious ringside seat to a hellacious fight.

[Gunny]

That isn't thier fault. It's the GOP's fault for not putting up a candidate worthy of the office. I understand pragmatism, lord knows I have done or helped do a shitload of "pragmatic" stuff. I guess everyone has a bullshit meter that eventually gets pegged out.



Yep. That pisses me off to the point of serious anger. And, i have noticed a lot more of that going on in this election cycle. That whole "the party is all" crap should have died out when the Soviet Union finally collapsed.



I think he'd be a bit more effective than Jimmy was. If nothing else, his election might send a message to the party hacks that business-as-usual wasn't going to cut it. And, even if his party didn't support him - that blade slices both ways. Between the Vetoes and Bully Pulpit, the country would get a serious ringside seat to a hellacious fight.

I hate to say it, but I think Jimmy was a better CinC than Paul would be, and Jimmy was a miserable failure.

Besides, I think it'll be business as usual. Paul looks strong in the polls until the primaries actually begin and reality sets in. Then he just fades away.

[Gaffer]

This is one election where voting out the dark lord is more important than who is voted in. That's a simple fact. I'd vote for Glenn Becks right shoe if it got zero out of office. For this election all conservatives and independents need to come together as allies. Put aside the third party crap for this election cycle and stand behind the GOP selection. Most of the third party running is just egotist stroking their own ego. If Paul goes third party it is just an ego trip and proves he's not the patriot he and others claim him to be.

[revelarts]

Gunny you've yet to give me ONE issue from any other candidate that would make me vote for another candiate.
"...Forest for the trees..." Ok great metaphor where's the real life content for that. name the forest. name something.
I see Big Gov't republicans.
I see anti constitution republicans.
I see pro abortion Republicans.
I see Pro war Republicans
I see bailout and Stimulus Republicans
I see Crony Republicans.

I can name a few more trees what other trees do you see that should make me ignore these AGAIN and vote for this CRAP AGAIN.

Sell me Gunny, Give me something to vote FOR I won't vote for that crap again. If that pisses you off get busy convincing me otherwise. you've given me nothing so far other than platitudes and partisan loyalty. No one here seems to want to talk about details except for what they think is wrong with Ron Paul tell me the details of whats overwhelmingly RIGHT with the others.

[fj1200]

Ron Paul has about as much chance of winning the GOP primary as he has the last however-many-times he's run. He's dropped out of the race every time.

This is his 3rd run; one Libertarian and was on the ballot in the general election, one Republican and dropped out like 9? other Republicans, and the current one where he's running strong in Iowa. So what exactly is the stigma?

[avatar4321]

He might make dents in Obama as well. There are alot of lefties who are not satisfied with the President.