More idiocy from California schools

[Thunderknuckles]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-german-glendale-20111222,0,7519414.story

Glendale school reverses course and decides to keep German language Kindergarten.
WTF!?
Our schools are supposedly underfunded and our students are fairing poorly compared to other states and countries.
Maybe if they actually started dropping useless courses like "German for 5 year olds" the problem wouldn't be so bad. They also offer Spanish and Italian at that school. The only one that makes sense is Spanish as it has practical application in our border state. Ditch the others and use the funds more appropriately. Oh, and don't go whining to Jerry Brown about increasing my taxes to help fund crap like this.

[ConHog]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-german-glendale-20111222,0,7519414.story

Glendale school reverses course and decides to keep German language Kindergarten.
WTF!?
Our schools are supposedly underfunded and our students are fairing poorly compared to other states and countries.
Maybe if they actually started dropping useless courses like "German for 5 year olds" the problem wouldn't be so bad. They also offer Spanish and Italian at that school. The only one that makes sense is Spanish as it has practical application in our border state. Ditch the others and use the funds more appropriately. Oh, and don't go whining to Jerry Brown about increasing my taxes to help fund crap like this.

I guess I'm confused. Are they teaching the class in German, or are they merely teaching German IN the class.

I'm all for making English the official language and if you want to go to school you must use English, but if it's the other way around, well studies have proven that small children learn foreign languages the easiest so.....

[Thunderknuckles]

I guess I'm confused. Are they teaching the class in German, or are they merely teaching German IN the class.

I'm all for making English the official language and if you want to go to school you must use English, but if it's the other way around, well studies have proven that small children learn foreign languages the easiest so.....
If schools have the excess funds for it, go for it. If not, cut the fluff and quit begging for more tax dollars. The way I see it K-12 main focus should be on reading, writing, and arithmetic with a secondary focus on civics, world history, and science.

[ConHog]

If schools have the excess funds for it, go for it. If not, cut the fluff and quit begging for more tax dollars. The way I see it K-12 main focus should be on reading, writing, and arithmetic with a secondary focus on civics, world history, and science.

That sounds good, BUT in reality schools are focused on (or should be focused on I should say) teaching children to think and adapt, and be creative in problem solving moreso than they are about teaching students to recite facts or diagram sentences or what have you. For example, how many reall world applications are there for some of the junk we learned in Algebra? But that wasn't the point. The point was that Algebra taught us (hopefully) to be creative in our problem solving. No one really cares what X * Y = .

Same with language skills , studies have shown that students who learn a foreign language are MUCH more receptive to learning other things and that students who learn a foreign language generally have a better mastery of English as well.

[logroller]

Germans, like every other developed nation's school system (and many developing countries) that I'm aware of, already teach english, so it seems you could get by without. Learning spanish has its benefits, I guess. But I learned more spanish running a landscape businessthan I did in 4 years of school. Why not teach them mandarin? Seems that would have a far greater future demand. I wonder if you added up all the spanish and german speaking people, if it would be more than the number of people in the world who speak mandarin chinese; I doubt it. To keep America competitive, we have to teach our kids skills which will have the most impact. Not to discount math and what not, but without effective communication skills, you're pretty much general labor material, and we can't compete with the labor of socialized countries.

[gabosaurus]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-german-glendale-20111222,0,7519414.story

Glendale school reverses course and decides to keep German language Kindergarten.
WTF!?
Our schools are supposedly underfunded and our students are fairing poorly compared to other states and countries.
Maybe if they actually started dropping useless courses like "German for 5 year olds" the problem wouldn't be so bad. They also offer Spanish and Italian at that school. The only one that makes sense is Spanish as it has practical application in our border state. Ditch the others and use the funds more appropriately. Oh, and don't go whining to Jerry Brown about increasing my taxes to help fund crap like this.

Perhaps if you had read the entire story and perhaps tried to comprehend it, you would understand it. Instead, you do the normal idiot complainer thing and just fly off the handle.


Launched in 2008, German is one of six languages now offered within Glendale Unified's burgeoning Foreign Languages Academies of Glendale, commonly referred to as the FLAG programs. It is one of three languages — the others being Spanish and Italian — taught at Franklin Elementary, a federally designated magnet school.

It's a school designed for teaching foreign languages. Of course, they want to keep them.
Duh... :slap:

[Thunderknuckles]

Perhaps if you had read the entire story and perhaps tried to comprehend it, you would understand it. Instead, you do the normal idiot complainer thing and just fly off the handle.



It's a school designed for teaching foreign languages. Of course, they want to keep them.
Duh... :slap:
I stand by my post which is to say with all of the problems with funding and poor academic achievement in California, why are we spending tax dollars to teach 5 year olds German and Italian?! Also take into account that the average salary for teachers at this school is 60K with principals making over 100k. Every damn year there is some effort to increase my property taxes to fund education. Again, drop this school and its curriculum and spend the money where it is actually needed.

[ConHog]

I stand by my post which is to say with all of the problems with funding and poor academic achievement in California, why are we spending tax dollars to teach 5 year olds German and Italian?! Also take into account that the average salary for teachers at this school is 60K with principals making over 100k. Every damn year there is some effort to increase my property taxes to fund education. Again, drop this school and its curriculum and spend the money where it is actually needed.

Now since when is a government entity going to cut a program just because of something like budget considerations? Who cares that in the private sector a program like would be cut as something that while nice is more of something you only have in the good times?

[Abbey Marie]

How do you feel about music and art programs?

[Thunderknuckles]

How do you feel about music and art programs?
Honestly, in the state we are in now, ditch them too as well as sports programs if you don't have the funds for it.
Learning to play Violin is great and probably good for character growth but but if there are not enough funds for the program, learn to play an instrument on your own time and dime.

BTW, I'm a big fan of music. Been playing guitar for about 25 years now. My son's school does not have a music program so I am getting him started on my own. Just saying I practice what I preach.

[ConHog]

Honestly, in the state we are in now, ditch them too as well as sports programs if you don't have the funds for it.
Learning to play Violin is great and probably good for character growth but but if there are not enough funds for the program, learn to play an instrument on your own time and dime.

BTW, I'm a big fan of music. Been playing guitar for about 25 years now. My son's school does not have a music program so I am getting him started on my own. Just saying I practice what I preach.

I LOVE sports, but i'd vote to dump our high school sports before I'd dump music or foreign language. Of course I'd also vote to cut down on staff or at least rework wages if possible before cutting any of them.

[Thunderknuckles]

I LOVE sports, but i'd vote to dump our high school sports before I'd dump music or foreign language. Of course I'd also vote to cut down on staff or at least rework wages if possible before cutting any of them.
I'm all for local residents deciding how to go about it at their school. If you can muster enough funds through local drives and keep everything, do it. If you know you have to cut something then decide what it has to be.

As it relates to my frustration with Education, keep in mind we probably do things differently in California than other states. By law the education budget must go up from year to year by a certain percentage. The calculation is complicated of course but it boils down to this: Education gets a raise every year whether we like it or not. Only in the case of sever economic turmoil can the education budget go down, even then the floor is set at 40% of the total state budget. Since we enacted this law in 1988, Education chews up between 50%-55% of the state's budget. Fully half of one of the world's largest economies is set for education and even that is not enough to hear it from the teachers union every year. Also, the average salary in California is a little over 50K, for teachers it is 60K, administrators and principals are north of 100K. Yet every year we are told they must have more tax payer money or there will be a catastrophe.

I hope that sheds a little light on my scrooge attitude with education in this state.

[Kathianne]

Hmmm:

http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/spring2005/ulttest.html


...The gulf between the national goal and the state realities poses a challenge for all 50 states (see Figure 1). But one state, California, serves as an especially compelling case study. Widely regarded as one of the best systems of education in the country as recently as 30 years ago, the California public school system has since become, according to most measures, one of the worst.


Since the 1970s, California schools have been buffeted by legal, political, and financial turbulence, along with rapid demographic change. Home to major shifts in educational policy in the last few decades and to 13 percent of the nation’s students, California has become an immense laboratory for nearly everything that can go right or wrong with education in America.


By reviewing the recent history of California’s public schools, their precipitous decline, and their potential for revival, policymakers nationwide can learn important lessons about how to manage public schools. Today, for example, the citizens of California need long-term, comprehensive solutions, beginning with an improved financing system that can tap into what the state can really afford and that can then provide the resources that the schools really need.


Whether at the national or at the state level, public education needs both accountability and resources. Although providing resources without demanding accountability can lead to a waste of resources, demanding accountability without providing adequate resources can be an evasion of accountability by setting up public schools for failure.
...

[LuvRPgrl]

Perhaps if you had read the entire story and perhaps tried to comprehend it, you would understand it. Instead, you do the normal idiot complainer thing and just fly off the handle.



It's a school designed for teaching foreign languages. Of course, they want to keep them.
Duh... :slap:

If its such a slam dunk, obvious situation, then why did they have to reverse their decision?

[LuvRPgrl]

I LOVE sports, but i'd vote to dump our high school sports before I'd dump music or foreign language. Of course I'd also vote to cut down on staff or at least rework wages if possible before cutting any of them.
sports programs usually pay for themselves, and is more important than foreign language and music.

[DragonStryk72]

How do you feel about music an art programs?

Actually, it's not all that useful to cut the music and art programs from a budgetary standpoint. They rarely end up totaling up 1/10 of what your average high school football team will go through in a season. The Sports also have the added advantage of funding being given through tickets to the games, concessions, and fundraisers that more people are likely to go in on.

[red states rule]

I stand by my post which is to say with all of the problems with funding and poor academic achievement in California, why are we spending tax dollars to teach 5 year olds German and Italian?! Also take into account that the average salary for teachers at this school is 60K with principals making over 100k. Every damn year there is some effort to increase my property taxes to fund education. Again, drop this school and its curriculum and spend the money where it is actually needed.


You are wasting your time asking Gabby any direct question. Gabby makes perhaps two attack posts max per thread then runs away

the last thing Gabby wants to do is to have to defend liberalism and the polciies of elected Democrats

Gabby missed her mark in this world. She would have been perfect as a reporter for the NY Times, or a host on DNCTV (aka MSNBC) She coulr rant and sprew her deranged defenses of liberalism to a larger numebr of p[eople and NEVER have to even read or listen to any rebuttals

[ConHog]

sports programs usually pay for themselves, and is more important than foreign language and music.

Umm WHAT? Maybe in a very small percentage of high schools do ANY of the sports programs generate any positive revenue, but as a whole? No high school is making money off of their sports. Now there ARE quite a few high schools which receive donations to their athletic programs, but that is quite a bit different than using taxpayer money to fund them.

And no sports are not more important to the learning environment than foreign languages and music. That's not to say they don't have value, because they do, but they aren't MORE important.

And this from a 3 sport high school athlete, as I said I LOVE high school athletics,but if something were to need to be cut, they would be cut first.

[ConHog]

Actually, it's not all that useful to cut the music and art programs from a budgetary standpoint. They rarely end up totaling up 1/10 of what your average high school football team will go through in a season. The Sports also have the added advantage of funding being given through tickets to the games, concessions, and fundraisers that more people are likely to go in on.

Strictly from a budget standpoint, they are about a wash. Outside of football and sometimes basketball , high schools aren't going to be making any money from sports and they still must provide facilities, teachers, transportation to away events, insurance, uniforms, and about a thousand other ancillary fees that one doesn't usually think about. Much like in college, only the largest programs generate enough funds from football and basketball ticket sales to even support the athletic program.

However, there are obviously more factors to consider when cutting school program funding than strictly financial.

A damn good to start in most cases would be cutting teachers than don't deserve their positions IMHO.

[LuvRPgrl]

Umm WHAT? Maybe in a very small percentage of high schools do ANY of the sports programs generate any positive revenue, but as a whole? No high school is making money off of their sports..
how do you know?


Now there ARE quite a few high schools which receive donations to their athletic programs, but that is quite a bit different than using taxpayer money to fund them..

doesnt matter, they are still paying for themselves


And no sports are not more important to the learning environment than foreign languages and music..
One sports class is more important than two non sports class.


That's not to say they don't have value, because they do, but they aren't MORE important..
repeating yourself?


And this from a 3 sport high school athlete, as I said I LOVE high school athletics,but if something were to need to be cut, they would be cut first.
Well, I think alot of us saw that coming.
How about a video of your heroics?
Im surprised you didnt go pro.

[ConHog]

how do you know?



Common sense, and school budget experience



doesnt matter, they are still paying for themselves



No they aren't. Outside of football/basketball, and sometimes baseball schools rely on tax money for sports.



One sports class is more important than two non sports class.



To YOU perhaps, but the parents of children who don't play sports would no doubt disagree.





Well, I think alot of us saw that coming.
How about a video of your heroics?
Im surprised you didnt go pro.



Anyone with a half a brain probably could have seen that one coming. athletic guy who went to a small school lettered in three sports, there's a shocker for you I tell you what.


You clearly have NO grasp of this subject and are merely trying to provoke me into a fight. I told you I wouldn't be participating. Have a great Christmas.

[LuvRPgrl]

Common sense, and school budget experience.
That doesnt qualify you to make statements of fact regarding all the schools across the country. TRY AGAIN, go ahead, make something up.




No they aren't. Outside of football/basketball, and sometimes baseball schools rely on tax money for sports..
Only on paper. The schools benefit monetarily in so many ways, but the money they get from some of the less than obvious money generated due to sports are never attributed directly to the sports programs.




To YOU perhaps, but the parents of children who don't play sports would no doubt disagree..
phys ed improves the abillity for kids to learn, amongst many other positive attributes that they can get from NO OTHER school activities. Its vitally important, and THOSE KIDS who dont play sports probably need it the most because Im willing to bet most of your diabetic kids are from that group, and DIABETES is skyrocketing among kids, its a serious epidemic.



Anyone with a half a brain probably could have seen that one coming. athletic guy who went to a small school lettered in three sports, there's a shocker for you I tell you what.


You clearly have NO grasp of this subject and are merely trying to provoke me into a fight. I told you I wouldn't be participating. Have a great Christmas.

You claim Im have no grasp on the subject ,
You claim Im not going to provoke you into a fight,
then, you engage me in a "fight"
and then YOU CLAIM you wont engage in said fight (which you are already engaged in)

TYPICAL FOR YOU, talking out both sides of your mouth, then doing just the opposite of what you claim you are going to do. RSR was right in calling you a coward, and you cant stop him from questioning it, even though you say you can, but good luck enforcing that.

[red states rule]

TYPICAL FOR YOU, talking out both sides of your mouth, then doing just the opposite of what you claim you are going to do. RSR was right in calling you a coward, and you cant stop him from questioning it, even though you say you can, but good luck enforcing that.

This is business as usual for our resident middle of the roader. He is a self professed expert on all topics and is an expert at taking both sides of any issue

Reminds me of another expert on all topics, that played the "I served" card constantly, and was known for taking both sides of every issue

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