Funnyman Tim Allen: Serious About God

[Shadow]

Interesting interview with Tim Allen.

Sitcom star Tim Allen became famous for his oaf-like antics and handyman hobbies, but some of the comedian’s real-life interests don’t just stop at his garage (http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/inside-tim-allens-incredible-garage-14975601) door. He is fascinated with religion and has a long history with Christianity, something he hints at while joking about his childhood sweet tooth in his stand-up act.
“I like Pixie Sticks. Yeah, screw the middle man. Just a tube of sugar…I’d pour two of those in a big 12 ounce coke. And I’d go out to catechism class and try to concentrate on the priest,” he recently told a Las Vegas audience. “I saw Jesus several times. I swear I did.”


Allen told “20/20″ anchor Elizabeth Vargas that he’s had “a curious relationship with God” since his father died.
Allen’s father died when he was hit by a drunk driver when Allen was just 11. The comedian says that after that, he questioned whether if he had prayed harder or had been with his father that fatal day, he could have prevented his death.
“For years, I just did not like this idea of God, church,” he said. “(I was) still a churchgoer, but constantly a cynic.”
But the cynicism didn’t last. Today, he calls God, “The Builder.”
“I always do ask…The Builder, what did you want me to do?” Allen said. “And I do ask it. But you got to be prepared for the answer.”

Full video of interview at the link

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2011/11/funnyman-tim-allen-serious-about-god/

[DragonStryk72]

I love Tim Allen, and I watched Home Improvement, and now Last Man Standing.

As far as religion, I struggled with it in Junior High and High School. I was always bothered by the whole "God moves in mysterious ways" argument, which just always seemed like a cop out. I went to a catholic school, but it wasn't Theology where I found my answer. It was in my US History class when it got brought up in the book that the Founders believed in Deism. Deism basically states that God set up all the laws of the universe back at the beginning, and then removed Himself so that we might have Free Will. This made far more sense to me, that it wasn't that God was making things happen, in so much as allowing us to live our lives how we wish.

In Tim's case, the driver chose to get drunk, and chose to get behind the wheel. God really didn't enter into it, it was the fault of man, which is true of most suffering in the world. However, most joy in the world is also the fault of man, we get to choose every day.

[Shadow]

I love Tim Allen, and I watched Home Improvement, and now Last Man Standing.

As far as religion, I struggled with it in Junior High and High School. I was always bothered by the whole "God moves in mysterious ways" argument, which just always seemed like a cop out. I went to a catholic school, but it wasn't Theology where I found my answer. It was in my US History class when it got brought up in the book that the Founders believed in Deism. Deism basically states that God set up all the laws of the universe back at the beginning, and then removed Himself so that we might have Free Will. This made far more sense to me, that it wasn't that God was making things happen, in so much as allowing us to live our lives how we wish.

In Tim's case, the driver chose to get drunk, and chose to get behind the wheel. God really didn't enter into it, it was the fault of man, which is true of most suffering in the world. However, most joy in the world is also the fault of man, we get to choose every day.

That has pretty much been my view as well. God set the path...we choose the way we travel at every fork in the road. I did like Tim's view on when asking God for help though...we'd better be prepared for the answers he gives. I've usually found that they aren't always what we want to hear. Good post BTW.

[Jess]

Very interesting. I'd not read or heard this about Allen. Kudos to him.


Lately, I've had reason to question the things that were just "fact" while I was growing up. One question I've had recently is why some people like to say "God works in mysterious ways" when it agrees with their position in general but they don't have that same attitude if it goes against what they think is best.

And this is a serious ponderance for me, not a smart aleck comment or anything like that.

Thoughts?

[revelarts]

Tim Allen is Cool.

I was raised baptist lite and was basically an agnostic teen and in College. So I really wasn't against the deist idea you mentioned DStrike, my thing was I didn't see enough to confirm much of anything either way. But the thing that put me past the deist position was Jesus, It seems he was a real person, and he was either an extremely deluded good guy or he did do and SAY some or most the things attributed. Now those things I read about him don't really Jib with the ideas of the small handful of deist who where founders. Basically, if I agreed with the deist I'd have to throw out Jesus to be honest. Jesus was no Deist. Not to mention tossing Moses and the others.

[DragonStryk72]

Very interesting. I'd not read or heard this about Allen. Kudos to him.


Lately, I've had reason to question the things that were just "fact" while I was growing up. One question I've had recently is why some people like to say "God works in mysterious ways" when it agrees with their position in general but they don't have that same attitude if it goes against what they think is best.

And this is a serious ponderance for me, not a smart aleck comment or anything like that.

Thoughts?

"God works in mysterious ways" is a cop-out, really. It's basically "I have no idea, nor do I care to exercise the thought necessary to get an idea". Free Will requires God to be pulled back, meaning that most of the time, it's just people being people, and not everything is divine mandate. That's why I don't get the people who "live their life for God". He gave you the gift of life specifically so that you could live it as you chose. Basically, in doing that, you're handing the gift back and going, "No thanks."

Yes, God wants you to pay Him reverence, basically thank Him for the gift, but he doesn't want to own your whole life, otherwise what was the point of free will?

[Shadow]

"God works in mysterious ways" is a cop-out, really. It's basically "I have no idea, nor do I care to exercise the thought necessary to get an idea". Free Will requires God to be pulled back, meaning that most of the time, it's just people being people, and not everything is divine mandate. That's why I don't get the people who "live their life for God". He gave you the gift of life specifically so that you could live it as you chose. Basically, in doing that, you're handing the gift back and going, "No thanks."

Yes, God wants you to pay Him reverence, basically thank Him for the gift, but he doesn't want to own your whole life, otherwise what was the point of free will?

I totally agree with this. It kind of reminds me of the saying..."set something free...if it comes back to you,it's yours...if it doesn't...it never was". God wants you to choose him and the path he designed for you freely.

[revelarts]

"God works in mysterious ways" is a cop-out, really. It's basically "I have no idea, nor do I care to exercise the thought necessary to get an idea". Free Will requires God to be pulled back, meaning that most of the time, it's just people being people, and not everything is divine mandate. That's why I don't get the people who "live their life for God". He gave you the gift of life specifically so that you could live it as you chose. Basically, in doing that, you're handing the gift back and going, "No thanks."

Yes, God wants you to pay Him reverence, basically thank Him for the gift, but he doesn't want to own your whole life, otherwise what was the point of free will?


I totally agree with this. It kind of reminds me of the saying..."set something free...if it comes back to you,it's yours...if it doesn't...it never was". God wants you to choose him and the path he designed for you freely.

I think you right about asking to exercise thought.

Dstrike, how do you come to the conclusion that God want's reverence? Or that he doesn't want anything in return? Or what He thinks about in general? Something you read, a general sense or feeling, your best estimation? How do you get there with any conviction specifically?


Shadow, How do you know God wants you to chose Him? Where did you get that idea from? How would we know He designed a path for us if he just start the world spinning and stepped away?

[Shadow]

I think you right about asking to exercise thought.

Dstrike, how do you come to the conclusion that God want's reverence? Or that he doesn't want anything in return? Or what He thinks about in general? Something you read, a general sense or feeling, your best estimation? How do you get there with any conviction specifically?


Shadow, How do you know God wants you to chose Him? Where did you get that idea from? How would we know He designed a path for us if he just start the world spinning and stepped away?

Just my own interpretation of things I have read in the bible and talked about being brought up both in the Lutheran and Baptist faith.

I kind of like this scripture...

Mark 7:5 So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, "Why don't your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with 'unclean' hands?" 7:6 He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: "'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 7:7 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'


In other words... I believe God wants a sincere heart that comes to him all on their own.

[DragonStryk72]

I think you right about asking to exercise thought.

Dstrike, how do you come to the conclusion that God want's reverence? Or that he doesn't want anything in return? Or what He thinks about in general? Something you read, a general sense or feeling, your best estimation? How do you get there with any conviction specifically?

How do you know there is a God? How do you know He's good? Couldn't we worship Bugs Bunny to the same effect? Actually, I read a lot. Not just the bible either. I've read up on Buddhism, Judaism, Taoism, Mormon, Wicca, and a number of other various beliefs. To me, Deism makes sense, because it allows the greatest degree of freedom to man, whereas a God that is continually maneuvering behind the scenes, or has an exacting plan for each of us really removes the very gift of Free Will that He gave us.


Shadow, How do you know God wants you to chose Him? Where did you get that idea from? How would we know He designed a path for us if he just start the world spinning and stepped away?

Because you can choose not to believe. You can have this argument. Without free will, this discussion never happens, and could not happen. Name the last time you saw two hungry wolves debating whether or not it was okay to kill and eat a deer, or if they might be better of with a vegan diet? They don't debate or consider their existence, because they do not really have a will of their own, just their instincts and trained behavior.

[revelarts]

How do you know there is a God?
personal experience and what I've studied/checked after the fact continues confirm his reality past and present.
How do you know He's good?
personal experience an my assessment of his plan and Faith.
Couldn't we worship Bugs Bunny to the same effect?
No, we'd die deceived and not make it into the presence of God.

Actually, I read a lot. Not just the bible either. I've read up on Buddhism, Judaism, Taoism, Mormon, Wicca, and a number of other various beliefs.
Cool me too, cliff notes on some of those though.

To me, Deism makes sense, because it allows the greatest degree of freedom to man, whereas a God that is continually maneuvering behind the scenes, or has an exacting plan for each of us really removes the very gift of Free Will that He gave us.
Free will is a fighting point even among traditional Christians, I doubt I have a view that satisfies many on that strike. But for me when you hit a certain level on some profound issues, nearly a either way you go you end up with paradoxes and/or logical brick walls.

However I'm not sure the Bible clearly says there is an "exacting plan" for each of us. The bible doesn't say that, so it's kind of a false enemy your reacting too. that makes you gravitate toward Deism. Some traditional Christians do believe in that but not all. The Bible does say that God Controls all and for those that believe in God's FULL sovereignty that still means from our human POV we are not aware of God's direct control and have an illusion of free will. For those that don't LIKE that idea, they tend to think that God acts in time an space more like a Ships captain. The ship will go exactly where he directs it and he makes appearances on deck from time to time but allows people to do as they will for the most part. Ejecting and Promoting passengers at his will.






Because you can choose not to believe. You can have this argument. Without free will, this discussion never happens, and could not happen. Name the last time you saw two hungry wolves debating whether or not it was okay to kill and eat a deer, or if they might be better of with a vegan diet? They don't debate or consider their existence, because they do not really have a will of their own, just their instincts and trained behavior.

Even some scientist are beginning to think they can show empirically that Human choices are simply just more complex versions of instinct , that our choices are, in fact, determined. Do we have more faith in Science or the Bible, Either way were in a bit of a trap. But if we assume you have free will because you LIKE that idea better then it isn't really scientific or honest with the concept of the Creator, if your using just the parts of the Bible that agree with your idea of free will as a gift, and the HIGHEST gift. Jesus said God's highest Gift was Himself and salvation through him, not free will. You can choose to disagree with that but I'm not sure if the reasons your using to make decision are as strong as reasons to think otherwise based on evidence at hand.

the paradox of choice/freewill to me is not a place to cancel out God's action, To me His reality is a given, after that I have no facts that can prove his hand was not in the ant crawling on my sandwich, or the girl not allowing me to get to second base in high school. The Bible say the times are crappy, so bad news while painful is no surprise either, and people do, to often, choose the darkside in large and small ways.

We all have our own paths, chosen freely or determined, personally i hope God helps us all.

[DragonStryk72]

Even some scientist are beginning to think they can show empirically that Human choices are simply just more complex versions of instinct , that our choices are, in fact, determined. Their run at empirically proving it sort of shoots their theory dead. Instinct alone is not enough to explain attempting to empirically prove anything is in total opposition of instinct. Instinct would reject ideas out of hand, because instincts do not really take time to examine themselves. They're momentary movements that we don't even think about, such as throwing your hands up to protect your face when someone mimes an air punch ("Two for flinching").

Do we have more faith in Science or the Bible, Either way were in a bit of a trap. But if we assume you have free will because you LIKE that idea better then it isn't really scientific or honest with the concept of the Creator, if your using just the parts of the Bible that agree with your idea of free will as a gift, and the HIGHEST gift. Jesus said God's highest Gift was Himself and salvation through him, not free will. You can choose to disagree with that but I'm not sure if the reasons your using to make decision are as strong as reasons to think otherwise based on evidence at hand. But where does that state that living for God is what He wants? This is never laid out in the Bible anywhere, and in fact many of the pharisees were claiming just that. Our relationship with God, and even salvation itself are only possible through Free Will. I cannot be forced to accept Christ as my savior, and even if I said yes to pay lip service, it wouldn't count. Only an act of one's own will can bring them to Christ.



the paradox of choice/freewill to me is not a place to cancel out God's action, To me His reality is a given, after that I have no facts that can prove his hand was not in the ant crawling on my sandwich, or the girl not allowing me to get to second base in high school. The Bible say the times are crappy, so bad news while painful is no surprise either, and people do, to often, choose the darkside in large and small ways.

Sure, God has plans, but you see his standing back wrongly, Rev. It's like when a parent stands back while their kid rides their bike for themselves for the first time. Now, the parent knows that the kid's gonna fall at some point, but in order for true growth to occur, the parent must step back, and allow for the child to both fail and succeed on their own. If there is real danger, the parent steps in, but as the child matures, these times, by necessity, grow fewer and farther between.

We all have our own paths, chosen freely or determined, personally i hope God helps us all.;