New Jersey Teacher faces discipline for alleged verbal abuse

[Shadow]

DEPTFORD, N.J. -- A New Jersey teacher faces discipline after being recorded telling a special-needs student that he was a "tard" and responding sarcastically to the student's pleas not to be called "special."
The Gloucester County Special Services District board reviewed the student's accusations of harassment, intimidation and bullying and placed the teacher on paid administrative leave Wednesday, Superintendent Michael Dicken said. He would not say what discipline the instructor could face.
The parents told ABCNews.com, which was first to report the case, that their 15-year-old son had been bullied before by the teacher. They urged him to use his cellphone to record video if the instructor did it again.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/18/new-jersey-teacher-faces-discipline-for-alleged-verbal-abuse/?test=latestnews#ixzz1eAca86wx

[ConHog]

DEPTFORD, N.J. -- A New Jersey teacher faces discipline after being recorded telling a special-needs student that he was a "tard" and responding sarcastically to the student's pleas not to be called "special."
The Gloucester County Special Services District board reviewed the student's accusations of harassment, intimidation and bullying and placed the teacher on paid administrative leave Wednesday, Superintendent Michael Dicken said. He would not say what discipline the instructor could face.
The parents told ABCNews.com, which was first to report the case, that their 15-year-old son had been bullied before by the teacher. They urged him to use his cellphone to record video if the instructor did it again.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/18/new-jersey-teacher-faces-discipline-for-alleged-verbal-abuse/?test=latestnews#ixzz1eAca86wx

how pitiful. And this is the ;power of the teacher unions that this teacher is on paid leave.

[Shadow]

how pitiful. And this is the ;power of the teacher unions that this teacher is on paid leave.


Good thing this kid had his cellphone in this case and got it on camera...


The video shows him repeatedly asking the teacher to stop calling him "special."

"What does the title on the front of that school say? `Special education,"' the teacher says in one instance.

In another instance, the teacher uses a pejorative derived from word retarded, telling the student: "Tard, you want me to call you normal, and you don't even know what it is."

At one point the teacher can also be heard threatening to beat up the student "from here to kingdom come."

[Jess]

That teacher should have to be a mod or admin on a message board. Then he'd have an idea what a "tard" is.;)

Seriously though, no teacher in special education should behave this way. Put him elsewhere ... like the janitorial staff.

[Shadow]

That teacher should have to be a mod or admin on a message board. Then he'd have an idea what a "tard" is.;)

Seriously though, no teacher in special education should behave this way. Put him elsewhere ... like the janitorial staff.

I agree...although I think the janitorial staff is too good a place for him (unless he spends the next few years just cleaning toilets).

To me it just underlines what our society lacks now days...compassion.

[red states rule]

I agree...although I think the janitorial staff is too good a place for him (unless he spends the next few years just cleaning toilets).

To me it just underlines what our society lacks now days...compassion.

He has a job waiting at MSNBC as a "Education Cosultant"

[DragonStryk72]

Good thing this kid had his cellphone in this case and got it on camera...


The video shows him repeatedly asking the teacher to stop calling him "special."

"What does the title on the front of that school say? `Special education,"' the teacher says in one instance.

In another instance, the teacher uses a pejorative derived from word retarded, telling the student: "Tard, you want me to call you normal, and you don't even know what it is."

At one point the teacher can also be heard threatening to beat up the student "from here to kingdom come."





I'm sorry, but that teacher should have lost their license entirely. I mean, that's just complete crap that they got paid vacation for this.

[red states rule]

I'm sorry, but that teacher should have lost their license entirely. I mean, that's just complete crap that they got paid vacation for this.

You can thank the teachers unions for that

[Shadow]

I'm sorry, but that teacher should have lost their license entirely. I mean, that's just complete crap that they got paid vacation for this.

I agree...however the superitendant wouldn't even comment on what disciplinary actions might be taken in this case. Hopefully he doesn't just get to come back to work after his vacation is over like nothing ever happened.

[ConHog]

Good thing this kid had his cellphone in this case and got it on camera...


The video shows him repeatedly asking the teacher to stop calling him "special."

"What does the title on the front of that school say? `Special education,"' the teacher says in one instance.

In another instance, the teacher uses a pejorative derived from word retarded, telling the student: "Tard, you want me to call you normal, and you don't even know what it is."

At one point the teacher can also be heard threatening to beat up the student "from here to kingdom come."





As I've said before, at OUR school all classes are video recorded from 7:30 AM til 5 PM , so at OUR school the kid wouldn't have needed his cellphone to record shit.

[ConHog]

I agree...however the superitendant wouldn't even comment on what disciplinary actions might be taken in this case. Hopefully he doesn't just get to come back to work after his vacation is over like nothing ever happened.

The Superintendent no doubt didn't comment because he won't be the one making the decision. This will be a school board level decision and the teacher will never teach at that school again.

As for permanently losing a teaching license, only the State Department of Education can do that. That is WAY above what a school can do.

[DragonStryk72]

The Superintendent no doubt didn't comment because he won't be the one making the decision. This will be a school board level decision and the teacher will never teach at that school again.

As for permanently losing a teaching license, only the State Department of Education can do that. That is WAY above what a school can do.

I say take it as high as it needs to go, but they could have at least done unpaid suspension as opposed to rewarding the teacher with paid vacation

[ConHog]

I say take it as high as it needs to go, but they could have at least done unpaid suspension as opposed to rewarding the teacher with paid vacation

Oh I would sue the School district and the state department of education if they don't remove this teacher from the school and then from teaching in the state period.

As for being mad that the teacher was suspended with pay, you can't be mad at the school district for that one, that's just the way it has to be done because of the teachers union.

[DragonStryk72]

Oh I would sue the School district and the state department of education if they don't remove this teacher from the school and then from teaching in the state period.

As for being mad that the teacher was suspended with pay, you can't be mad at the school district for that one, that's just the way it has to be done because of the teachers union.

See, here's my problem: The union would threaten me, and that would get my Irish.

Them: "We'll strike"
Me: "I will make it as public as possible that your union supports prejudice and abuse against children and the handicapped. Let's see which of us looks like more of an asshole by the end."

I'm not really mad at the school board, it's more pissed in general. I understand the need for representation, I do, but at the same time, it cannot be so unbalanced that even teachers such as this are allowed to retain their positions and salaries.

[Kathianne]

See, here's my problem: The union would threaten me, and that would get my Irish.

Them: "We'll strike"
Me: "I will make it as public as possible that your union supports prejudice and abuse against children and the handicapped. Let's see which of us looks like more of an asshole by the end."

I'm not really mad at the school board, it's more pissed in general. I understand the need for representation, I do, but at the same time, it cannot be so unbalanced that even teachers such as this are allowed to retain their positions and salaries.

I understand the problems folks have with the 'real bad apples.' The thing is the rules concerning letting teachers be dismissed aren't written for the worst case scenarios, but the run of the mill. I agree that it's an insane situation today, since NY, Chicago, and LA for worst case scenarios could combined fill a rather medium sized office building with teachers not allowed in classrooms but collecting paychecks. Many of those teachers remain on the payrolls for years, without stepping into a classroom again.

Of course, that example doesn't come close to the numbers of teachers still listed as such, while also collecting a second full-time salary from the unions. Two salaries, two pensions, no teaching, other than a day or two per year.

Truth of the matter is that as far as an effective tool for most members, unions in education have failed in the current era. Administrative caprice still is a threat to good, even brilliant teachers, but unions no longer seem to function as the best remedy.

[ConHog]

I understand the problems folks have with the 'real bad apples.' The thing is the rules concerning letting teachers be dismissed aren't written for the worst case scenarios, but the run of the mill. I agree that it's an insane situation today, since NY, Chicago, and LA for worst case scenarios could combined fill a rather medium sized office building with teachers not allowed in classrooms but collecting paychecks. Many of those teachers remain on the payrolls for years, without stepping into a classroom again.

Of course, that example doesn't come close to the numbers of teachers still listed as such, while also collecting a second full-time salary from the unions. Two salaries, two pensions, no teaching, other than a day or two per year.

Truth of the matter is that as far as an effective tool for most members, unions in education have failed in the current era. Administrative caprice still is a threat to good, even brilliant teachers, but unions no longer seem to function as the best remedy.

It is SICKENING how many teachers are on the payroll but not teaching , especially in the big cities like you said NY, Chicago, LA. There was a news story (Glen Beck IIRC) about one such teacher who reports to a classroom everyday and does anything but teach and collects over $100K a year and has been doing so for the last 10 years. If that's not proof that the unions are NOT a good thing, I don't know what is.

Unfortunately though the rules are the rules and this school has done all they can do , for the moment. The worst part is that this teacher will end up resigning from that school district and just move to another. I seriously doubt any licenses are pulled, even though they should be.

[Gunny]

DEPTFORD, N.J. -- A New Jersey teacher faces discipline after being recorded telling a special-needs student that he was a "tard" and responding sarcastically to the student's pleas not to be called "special."
The Gloucester County Special Services District board reviewed the student's accusations of harassment, intimidation and bullying and placed the teacher on paid administrative leave Wednesday, Superintendent Michael Dicken said. He would not say what discipline the instructor could face.
The parents told ABCNews.com, which was first to report the case, that their 15-year-old son had been bullied before by the teacher. They urged him to use his cellphone to record video if the instructor did it again.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/18/new-jersey-teacher-faces-discipline-for-alleged-verbal-abuse/?test=latestnews#ixzz1eAca86wx


I'm thinking if you're a special need teacher, you might want to not use words like "tard".

You also should be aware of which parents are whiny-ass crybabies at the drop of a hat.

[Kathianne]

I'm thinking if you're a special need teacher, you might want to not use words like "tard".

You also should be aware of which parents are whiny-ass crybabies at the drop of a hat.

I'm just guessing this wasn't a spec ed teacher, rather a regular classroom teacher with mainstreamed students and their inclusion teacher. My guess, this person didn't want mainstreamed kids, much less a 'co-teacher' which is what he/she got.

In all fairness, I can see the problem. In nearly all cases the special needs kids are mainstreamed into the lowest regular group-meaning the regular ed kids have problems with IQ, preparation, reading materials, what have you; yet they are often light years ahead of the 'special needs.' The 'regular kids' are going to be really tough to get through state testing for NCLB, now add in those 'special needs' kids, sometimes close to 1/2 the class. Talk of merit pay based on state test results? Blow out?

Now take out the special needs kids, all those on IEP's, including the gifted. What happens? Depends on the school. In the districts I'm in, they'd fight that. Their special needs gifted more than cover the special needs inclusion lows. That isn't true in most though from what I've read.

[ConHog]

I'm just guessing this wasn't a spec ed teacher, rather a regular classroom teacher with mainstreamed students and their inclusion teacher. My guess, this person didn't want mainstreamed kids, much less a 'co-teacher' which is what he/she got.

In all fairness, I can see the problem. In nearly all cases the special needs kids are mainstreamed into the lowest regular group-meaning the regular ed kids have problems with IQ, preparation, reading materials, what have you; yet they are often light years ahead of the 'special needs.' The 'regular kids' are going to be really tough to get through state testing for NCLB, now add in those 'special needs' kids, sometimes close to 1/2 the class. Talk of merit pay based on state test results? Blow out?

Now take out the special needs kids, all those on IEP's, including the gifted. What happens? Depends on the school. In the districts I'm in, they'd fight that. Their special needs gifted more than cover the special needs inclusion lows. That isn't true in most though from what I've read.

As you know , I REALLY dislike schools being forced to "educate" some of these kids. However, if one my teachers ever called a kid a "tard" , being fired would be the least of his problems. They are children. This actually made me very sad to read that a teacher would bully a kid who no doubt has more than enough bullying in their lives already.

[Kathianne]

As you know , I REALLY dislike schools being forced to "educate" some of these kids. However, if one my teachers ever called a kid a "tard" , being fired would be the least of his problems. They are children. This actually made me very sad to read that a teacher would bully a kid who no doubt has more than enough bullying in their lives already.

I agree, that person should NOT be in a classroom and also agree that their credentials should be yanked. I was only addressing the assumption that this teacher was a spec ed teacher, not likely was my point.

[Gunny]

I agree, that person should NOT be in a classroom and also agree that their credentials should be yanked. I was only addressing the assumption that this teacher was a spec ed teacher, not likely was my point.

I'm going to reserve judgment at this time. IMO, yanking someone's credentials and putting him/her out on the street is a bit stiff over one incident. People make mistakes. If there is a trend in behavior, and/or the teach is constantly being counseled, I can see it. A good ass-chewing might suffice.

I'm not excusing the behavior by any means. I'm just not on board with "instant death" for one screw-up. If that's the case, why is Obama still around?

[ConHog]

I agree, that person should NOT be in a classroom and also agree that their credentials should be yanked. I was only addressing the assumption that this teacher was a spec ed teacher, not likely was my point.

I didn't get the impression that this was a spec needs teacher either.

[Kathianne]

I'm going to reserve judgment at this time. IMO, yanking someone's credentials and putting him/her out on the street is a bit stiff over one incident. People make mistakes. If there is a trend in behavior, and/or the teach is constantly being counseled, I can see it. A good ass-chewing might suffice.

I'm not excusing the behavior by any means. I'm just not on board with "instant death" for one screw-up. If that's the case, why is Obama still around?

My opinion is that anyone who'd do that to any child, much less a special needs kid shouldn't be in a classroom. It's not a job for everyone, that is for sure. I'm not of the mindset that teachers are drastically underpaid with horrible working conditions; if one loves teaching it's not for the money or even the hours.

[ConHog]

My opinion is that anyone who'd do that to any child, much less a special needs kid shouldn't be in a classroom. It's not a job for everyone, that is for sure. I'm not of the mindset that teachers are drastically underpaid with horrible working conditions; if one loves teaching it's not for the money or even the hours.

Wish more teachers had that attitude. Sadly many teachers seem to have the mentality of "they don't pay me enough to do this job" to which I always reply " were you aware of the pay scale when you agreed to do the job?"

[LuvRPgrl]

that would never happened and the most damage to that kid is being done by the lazy ass parents who wont take their time to discipline the kid normally at home so he is diagnosed with the bullshit syndrome known as ADHD. ADHD is merely a symptom that the parents are lazy and not doing their jobs at home, and they expect the schools to take care of it.,

[ConHog]

that would never happened and the most damage to that kid is being done by the lazy ass parents who wont take their time to discipline the kid normally at home so he is diagnosed with the bullshit syndrome known as ADHD. ADHD is merely a symptom that the parents are lazy and not doing their jobs at home, and they expect the schools to take care of it.,

I somewhat agree with this. Most children who are diagnosed as ADHD could be cured by getting their asses busted a few times at school. That is the truth whether people want to admit it or not. We paddle at our school and we simply don't have any ADHD kids to speak of. Now those that HAVE been diagnosed as ADHD in my opinion have other problems that have simply been lumped together and called ADHD.

I'm 40 and simply don't remember a single one of my classmates being diagnosed as ADHD. Hell, we hadn't even ever heard of such a thing. It was more like "oh you're not going to pay attention in class" paddle that ass. THEN you got home and it was "oh you got paddled at school today?" then you got that ass paddled again . Only an idiot didn't pay attention in class the next day.

[DragonStryk72]

I somewhat agree with this. Most children who are diagnosed as ADHD could be cured by getting their asses busted a few times at school. That is the truth whether people want to admit it or not. We paddle at our school and we simply don't have any ADHD kids to speak of. Now those that HAVE been diagnosed as ADHD in my opinion have other problems that have simply been lumped together and called ADHD.

I'm 40 and simply don't remember a single one of my classmates being diagnosed as ADHD. Hell, we hadn't even ever heard of such a thing. It was more like "oh you're not going to pay attention in class" paddle that ass. THEN you got home and it was "oh you got paddled at school today?" then you got that ass paddled again . Only an idiot didn't pay attention in class the next day.

Well, the thing is, teachers these days see a kid that's not paying attention, and immediately jump to "It's ADD!"

lol, I remember this one story my dad loves to tell at AA:

When my sister heather was in school, she was having a lot of trouble turning in homework. Now, my mom and dad were fighting a bunch at the time, and dad was worried that the fighting back and forth was affecting us. So he asks heather, "Are you having trouble doing homework cause mommy and daddy are fighting?"

She sniffles out a yes, and Dad ends up getting called in for a parent/teacher conference, where he explains that Heather is having trouble with assignments because him and his wife are fighting. The teacher waits patiently for him to finish talking and goes, "Did you ever consider, Mr. McTiernan, that she isn't doing the homework because she just doesn't want to do homework?"



See, the difference is this: Most kids will have trouble paying attention at certain points, it happens. A kid who actually has ADD is different, often forgetting things or lapsing even on stuff that is engaging to him, or otherwise has gain in it for him. I routinely forget why I'm going to the kitchen when I'm starving and thirsty, or forget things like my money, or I'll "lock" on something visually because I've had a random thought that has not trapped all of my concentration. I use sticky notes and other methods of reminding myself of stuff to work around the problem, as I've never been medicated for it.

Actually, it's better for the kid if he isn't medicated, because then he learns how to work around being ADD, and can adapt his own actions to make up for the problem. the reason a kid who is ADD won't listen to his mp3 in class due to ADD is that it simply takes too many steps of thought to do so. He is much more likely to get stuck on a cloud, or something going on outside, or even start to do a doodle that completely consumes him (I start drawing ivy, and I can take up whole pages of paper with it).

By the same token, though, ADD can really be an advantage in certain aspects. Those who are ADD tend to pick up a lot of knowledge across a variety of spectrums, such as when I started questioning religion in Junior High, and start reading up on all of the other ones out there. No one was making me do it, but I needed answers to questions in my head. We also tend to fixate on details of certain areas that we find fascinating, learning more quickly on our own most times than people in classrooms do. Myself, I also have trouble remembering why I was angry, so I tend to come down off it pretty quickly.

[ConHog]

Well, the thing is, teachers these days see a kid that's not paying attention, and immediately jump to "It's ADD!"

lol, I remember this one story my dad loves to tell at AA:

When my sister heather was in school, she was having a lot of trouble turning in homework. Now, my mom and dad were fighting a bunch at the time, and dad was worried that the fighting back and forth was affecting us. So he asks heather, "Are you having trouble doing homework cause mommy and daddy are fighting?"

She sniffles out a yes, and Dad ends up getting called in for a parent/teacher conference, where he explains that Heather is having trouble with assignments because him and his wife are fighting. The teacher waits patiently for him to finish talking and goes, "Did you ever consider, Mr. McTiernan, that she isn't doing the homework because she just doesn't want to do homework?"



See, the difference is this: Most kids will have trouble paying attention at certain points, it happens. A kid who actually has ADD is different, often forgetting things or lapsing even on stuff that is engaging to him, or otherwise has gain in it for him. I routinely forget why I'm going to the kitchen when I'm starving and thirsty, or forget things like my money, or I'll "lock" on something visually because I've had a random thought that has not trapped all of my concentration. I use sticky notes and other methods of reminding myself of stuff to work around the problem, as I've never been medicated for it.

Actually, it's better for the kid if he isn't medicated, because then he learns how to work around being ADD, and can adapt his own actions to make up for the problem. the reason a kid who is ADD won't listen to his mp3 in class due to ADD is that it simply takes too many steps of thought to do so. He is much more likely to get stuck on a cloud, or something going on outside, or even start to do a doodle that completely consumes him (I start drawing ivy, and I can take up whole pages of paper with it).

By the same token, though, ADD can really be an advantage in certain aspects. Those who are ADD tend to pick up a lot of knowledge across a variety of spectrums, such as when I started questioning religion in Junior High, and start reading up on all of the other ones out there. No one was making me do it, but I needed answers to questions in my head. We also tend to fixate on details of certain areas that we find fascinating, learning more quickly on our own most times than people in classrooms do. Myself, I also have trouble remembering why I was angry, so I tend to come down off it pretty quickly.

You did much better at explaining what I was getting at. Yes there are REAL cases of such, but it has been so over diagnosed that well I just find most cases to be not actual ADD.

[Kathianne]

that would never happened and the most damage to that kid is being done by the lazy ass parents who wont take their time to discipline the kid normally at home so he is diagnosed with the bullshit syndrome known as ADHD. ADHD is merely a symptom that the parents are lazy and not doing their jobs at home, and they expect the schools to take care of it.,

Overdiagnosed? Yes. Bullshit? No way and when real has 0 to do with parents, other than genetics. Does consistent good parenting help? Yes. Does it do away with the symptoms? No. Meds can help, but there are complications there too.

[ConHog]

Overdiagnosed? Yes. Bullshit? No way and when real has 0 to do with parents, other than genetics. Does consistent good parenting help? Yes. Does it do away with the symptoms? No. Meds can help, but there are complications there too.

Absolutely, but what percentage of cases do you think are accurately diagnosed.

[LuvRPgrl]

Overdiagnosed? Yes. Bullshit? No way and when real has 0 to do with parents, other than genetics. Does consistent good parenting help? Yes. Does it do away with the symptoms? No. Meds can help, but there are complications there too.

nope. My oldest son was diagnosed adhd and was being medicated. Funny, when he stayed with me the symptoms mysteriously suddenly dissappeared.
and that included times when he was still medicating, and summers when we would stop medicating him

I would most definately been diagnosed adhd. Meds for it, the few times it is legit, is the wrong answer for the kid, right answer for the pharmesutical, ($$$$$$$) right answer for parents and teachers to take the lazy wayt out

[LuvRPgrl]

Absolutely, but what percentage of cases do you think are accurately diagnosed.

i would say ab out 5.
If a study would bew done on it, I bet over 75% come from fatherless homes.
the libs, instead of admitting fathers play a very important role that cant be replaced, for the kids, they just want to invent a disease for it.

I was working on this one house, in the backyard on the deck. My tools were laid out, the kid catme out and started playing with them. I told him he has to ask first. I had to pick him up and move him away from my tools.
Next day, same thing. His mom told me is adhd,,
third day,he knew I was serious, he asked, and got to play with them.
THERE WAS NO FREAKING ADHD WITH THIS KID, PROBLEM IS HE WAS BEING RAISED BY MOM AND GRANDMA.
I witnessed where the grandma would tell him to do something with absolutely no repsonse from ihim, until it escalated to her yelling at him, still no respone, then she gave up blaming adhd instead of looking at her own parenting skills, or lack of.

[ConHog]

i would say ab out 5.
If a study would bew done on it, I bet over 75% come from fatherless homes.
the libs, instead of admitting fathers play a very important role that cant be replaced, for the kids, they just want to invent a disease for it.

I was working on this one house, in the backyard on the deck. My tools were laid out, the kid catme out and started playing with them. I told him he has to ask first. I had to pick him up and move him away from my tools.
Next day, same thing. His mom told me is adhd,,
third day,he knew I was serious, he asked, and got to play with them.
THERE WAS NO FREAKING ADHD WITH THIS KID, PROBLEM IS HE WAS BEING RAISED BY MOM AND GRANDMA.
I witnessed where the grandma would tell him to do something with absolutely no repsonse from ihim, until it escalated to her yelling at him, still no respone, then she gave up blaming adhd instead of looking at her own parenting skills, or lack of.

Which is really a shame, because all it does it make it tougher on the kids who actually DO have problems.


Ugh I got a call from our school Superintendent this morning. Parents of an 8 year old with CP just came into the school wanting to enroll their child. He wants to know how we're going to fund that. I told him unfortunately that doesn't matter. If the parents insist we will have to enroll her and "educate" her. I hate to say a child is a waste of resources, but some cases are. He definitely thinks this is one such case. The little girl is a a quad and barely able to speak.


I'm meeting the parents tonight to evaluate and make a plan.

[DragonStryk72]

i would say ab out 5.
If a study would bew done on it, I bet over 75% come from fatherless homes.
the libs, instead of admitting fathers play a very important role that cant be replaced, for the kids, they just want to invent a disease for it.

I was working on this one house, in the backyard on the deck. My tools were laid out, the kid catme out and started playing with them. I told him he has to ask first. I had to pick him up and move him away from my tools.
Next day, same thing. His mom told me is adhd,,
third day,he knew I was serious, he asked, and got to play with them.
THERE WAS NO FREAKING ADHD WITH THIS KID, PROBLEM IS HE WAS BEING RAISED BY MOM AND GRANDMA.
I witnessed where the grandma would tell him to do something with absolutely no repsonse from ihim, until it escalated to her yelling at him, still no respone, then she gave up blaming adhd instead of looking at her own parenting skills, or lack of.

It has nothing to do with Mom and Grandma. My mom would've slapped the living shit out of me the 2nd time I'd gone over and played with the tools.

[Kathianne]

It has nothing to do with Mom and Grandma. My mom would've slapped the living shit out of me the 2nd time I'd gone over and played with the tools.

Indeed. As Conhog said, kids like this being diagnosed make it much more difficult for those that really do have this.

I couldn't possibly guess at the % over diagnosed, but would guess significantly over 50%. My son's pediatric neurologist did a complete neurological work up, surveys from school teachers, parents, and two other adults that had significant time spent with child. Even with that, warned that meds would be the prime indicator of whether or not the diagnosis was correct and should see significant ability to control focus and movement within 24-36 hours, if not seen, stop the meds. The change was dramatic, no mistaking it.

[LuvRPgrl]

It has nothing to do with Mom and Grandma. My mom would've slapped the living shit out of me the 2nd time I'd gone over and played with the tools.

THATS EXACTLY MY POINT!!!!!

how many mothers do that these days? Divorced parents are so busy trying to be their kids "friends" instead of a parent, they forget to discipline them, There is a contest between the parents who does the kid like best.

you shouold have seen those two with that kid, pathetic, neither was willing to do what was good for the kid.

[ConHog]

THATS EXACTLY MY POINT!!!!!

how many mothers do that these days? Divorced parents are so busy trying to be their kids "friends" instead of a parent, they forget to discipline them, There is a contest between the parents who does the kid like best.

you shouold have seen those two with that kid, pathetic, neither was willing to do what was good for the kid.

Your initial post DID kind of read like you were blaiming it on women rather than single parents. But you've obvioulsy clarifyed that.

[LuvRPgrl]

Your initial post DID kind of read like you were blaiming it on women rather than single parents. But you've obvioulsy clarifyed that.

as it turns out, usually the women have custody, hence....
and,,, no fault of their own, males are inheirently more discplinarians than women. NOT ALL OF COURSE, SO PLEASE DONT START PLASTERING ME WITH EXAMPLES. OF COURSE THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS.
The reason a man and a woman are the best enviorment, and this also lends itself to the two homos raising a kid, is because they both naturally have their strong points that compliment each other.
I mean, how many times have we all heard, "just wait til your dad gets home !"

[DragonStryk72]

THATS EXACTLY MY POINT!!!!!

how many mothers do that these days? Divorced parents are so busy trying to be their kids "friends" instead of a parent, they forget to discipline them, There is a contest between the parents who does the kid like best.

you shouold have seen those two with that kid, pathetic, neither was willing to do what was good for the kid.

It isnt really the presence or absence of the father, but having at least one parent who is willing to enforce the discipline.

[ConHog]

as it turns out, usually the women have custody, hence....
and,,, no fault of their own, males are inheirently more discplinarians than women. NOT ALL OF COURSE, SO PLEASE DONT START PLASTERING ME WITH EXAMPLES. OF COURSE THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS.
The reason a man and a woman are the best enviorment, and this also lends itself to the two homos raising a kid, is because they both naturally have their strong points that compliment each other.
I mean, how many times have we all heard, "just wait til your dad gets home !"

Are you old enough to remember the cartoon "wait until your father gets home?" LOL

[LuvRPgrl]

It isnt really the presence or absence of the father, but having at least one parent who is willing to enforce the discipline.

thats part of it, but also it is about a male and female interacting and providing real live living role models for the kids to learn from.

[LuvRPgrl]

Are you old enough to remember the cartoon "wait until your father gets home?" LOL

there is still a lot of wisdom in those ol shows, unlike the pro homo, pro single mothers crap they put out today.

[trobinett]

Double dipping seems to be the new "in" thing to do for government employees.:slap:

[red states rule]

there is still a lot of wisdom in those ol shows, unlike the pro homo, pro single mothers crap they put out today.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to LuvRPgrl again.