Teen suspended over Confederate flag shirt, mom says school is wrong

[red states rule]

Now id the kid would have worn a shirt with the Mexican flag nothing would have happened




A Kreps Middle School parent who says her daughter was suspended for wearing a sweatshirt emblazoned with the image of the confederate flag says the school overstepped its boundaries and violated her daughter’s right to free speech.

Jane West says she’s thinking about withdrawing her daughter, Torri Albrecht, from the school even as district officials insist that the flag — viewed by many as a racially charged symbol — was not the reason the girl was suspended.

“They’re saying that now because they know they really went too far this time,” West said. “If there wasn’t a problem with the sweatshirt, why did the vice principal call at 10 after 8 on Monday to demand that I bring a change of clothes for my daughter?”

“He told me he had a bunch of students and a bunch of teachers come into his office to say they were disturbed by it,” she said.

West said she told the assistant principal, Jermaine Blount, he was crazy if he thought she was coming out with a change of clothes for the eighth-grader.

“The Indian kids wear their turbans. The Jewish kids wear their yarmulkes. That’s their birthright,” she said. “I told him that Torri was born in Virginia. That flag is her heritage and I’m not telling her to take it off. He said ‘I guess she’ll have to suffer the consequences.’”

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2011/11/east_windsor_teen_suspended_ov.html#incart_hbx

[ConHog]

Wearing a confederate flag is NOT the same thing as wearing a Mexican flag, or a US flag, or an Irish flag. It's more akin to wearing a swastika.

Does that mean everyone who sports a confederate flag supports slavery? Of course not , just like not everyone who has a swastika laying around supports baking Jews, but the connotation is there, and school boards have dress codes for a reason.

I can tell you from experience that it is a fine line sometimes between giving a child some freedom of speech, and keeping things from being disruptive. If this school had black students, and I would assume it does, I could EASILY see a confederate flag being disruptive. Now that's different than say the case were some school official said that Mexican kids may be offended by the US flag , because well the US flag isn't used for anyone's symbol of tyranny over another group of people as far as I know.

I don't understand why this upsets you at all RSR or do you just not understand why schools need dress codes? And that's a real question, not being a smartass for once. :laugh:

[logroller]

Wearing a confederate flag is NOT the same thing as wearing a Mexican flag, or a US flag, or an Irish flag. It's more akin to wearing a swastika.

Does that mean everyone who sports a confederate flag supports slavery? Of course not , just like not everyone who has a swastika laying around supports baking Jews, but the connotation is there, and school boards have dress codes for a reason.

I can tell you from experience that it is a fine line sometimes between giving a child some freedom of speech, and keeping things from being disruptive. If this school had black students, and I would assume it does, I could EASILY see a confederate flag being disruptive. Now that's different than say the case were some school official said that Mexican kids may be offended by the US flag , because well the US flag isn't used for anyone's symbol of tyranny over another group of people as far as I know.

I don't understand why this upsets you at all RSR or do you just not understand why schools need dress codes? And that's a real question, not being a smartass for once. :laugh:

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. The confederate flag represents southern pride; not slavery-- people who believe otherwise ARE ignorant and/or racist. If someone wore a shirt that said 'black and proud' or 'FUBU' apparel, that's racist too if you think about it; but would it receive the same scrutiny? I'm all for dress codes, esp. uniforms; else you run afoul, showing preferential treatment.

[Abbey Marie]

Uniforms, people. Solves a boatload of problems.

[ConHog]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. The confederate flag represents southern pride; not slavery-- people who believe otherwise ARE ignorant and/or racist. If someone wore a shirt that said 'black and proud' or 'FUBU' apparel, that's racist too if you think about it; but would it receive the same scrutiny? I'm all for dress codes, esp. uniforms; else you run afoul, showing preferential treatment.

In my school? You bet. As I said, school dress codes are discretionary for a reason. Administrators have to have the flexibililty to rule that something is disruptive without parents second guessing them (after all how many parents are going to agree with ANYTHING the school has to say when it comes to disciplining Johnny?)

Now if you had a school that had black and white students in it and you seen the school allowing black children to wear black pride clothing while telling the white kids they couldn't wear confederate flags etc. Then you have a problem. BUT if you have a school applying the rules equally, then that is their prerogative.

[ConHog]

Uniforms, people. Solves a boatload of problems.

I would like to see uniforms to, like you said solves SO many problems. I wouldn't even care if the schools provided said uniforms.

[Thunderknuckles]

Here in Mexifornia there are a number of cases where students were not allowed to wear a t-shirt with the US flag on it on Cinco De Mayo.

[logroller]

I would like to see uniforms to, like you said solves SO many problems. I wouldn't even care if the schools provided said uniforms.

I'd like to submit this one for the board's consideration.:salute:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_hh7Y_mOyQH8/S4_65WexJMI/AAAAAAAABxw/OhJgEoNFvx0/s400/government_too_large_thomas_jefferson_quote_shirt-p235170259629360288u34v_400.jpg

[ConHog]

Here in Mexifornia there are a number of cases where students were not allowed to wear a t-shirt with the US flag on it on Cinco De Mayo.

See my problem with THAT case was that the schools were unfair in their standards. If its not okay to potentially disrupt with a US flag on that day, then tell the Mexican kids to celebrate at home and not allow THEM to disrupt . Both or neither. Either way is fine in my book, but be consistent.

[logroller]

Here in Mexifornia there are a number of cases where students were not allowed to wear a t-shirt with the US flag on it on Cinco De Mayo.

That's just gross. I mean, if you can burn a flag, you should be able to wear it; especially while burning it-- that's always been my policy

[ConHog]

What????:link:

If I remember correctly it was 5 kids at one school. Now in the school's defense. It was pretty obvious the student's did it in order to try to cause problems with the Mexican students.

[logroller]

That's just gross. I mean, if you can burn a flag, you should be able to wear it; especially while burning it-- that's always been my policy

Besides that, Cinco de Mayo is more widely celebrated in the US than Mexico-- it's an extremely successful ad campaign to sell beer. I say, they shouldn't be able to celebrate Cinco de Mayo in schools-period. if it were an Oktoberfest celebration, would wearing an American flag be disrespectful, meant to incite violence or confrontation? Nope.

[logroller]

If I remember correctly it was 5 kids at one school. Now in the school's defense. It was pretty obvious the student's did it in order to try to cause problems with the Mexican students.

Why, because they think Cinco de Mayo is a sham-- which it is?

[revelarts]

I'll have to agree with Con, the Confederate flag is more like the nazi flag, i wouldn't go as far as that but it's closer to that than the Mexi or US or Canadian flags. Log you assert that the flag is not racist it stand for southern pride. that's fine I'm sure many agree with that and only see it that way. But many avowed racist DO use the flag to mean MORE than that. And it's ridiculous to ignore that. So then Blacks have to try to figure out which is which. Can you tell which Confederate flag wavers are in it for southern pride and which are in it for White Pride and putting N-s and the other "inferior races" in there "place"? Most blacks don't take the time to make the distinction, and assume the worse and some respond in kind. Calling people ignorant makes no sense at all in this case Log. That flag probably won't make for a peaceful school setting no matter what the intent.

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1340964874782&id=1d411c8595d17e49cea1dffb54b74799&url=http%3a%2f%2ffarm1.static.flickr.com%2f42%2f39 5589623_0e114201c2.jpg

[ConHog]

Why, because they think Cinco de Mayo is a sham-- which it is?

I'd have to agree with you, and like I said I certainly fault the school for not applying the rules equally.

[logroller]

I'll have to agree with Con, the Confederate flag is more like the nazi flag, i wouldn't go as far as that but it's closer to that than the Mexi or US or Canadian flags. Log you assert that the flag is not racist it stand for southern pride. that's fine I'm sure many agree with that and only see it that way. But many avowed racist DO use the flag to mean MORE than that. And it's ridiculous to ignore that. So then Blacks have to try to figure out which is which. Can you tell which Confederate flag wavers are in it for southern pride and which are in it for White Pride and putting N-s and the other "inferior races" in there "place"? Most blacks don't take the time to make the distinction, and assume the worse and some respond in kind. Calling people ignorant makes no sense at all in this case Log. That flag probably won't make for a peaceful school setting no matter what the intent.

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1340964874782&id=1d411c8595d17e49cea1dffb54b74799&url=http%3a%2f%2ffarm1.static.flickr.com%2f42%2f39 5589623_0e114201c2.jpg

Well, I'm sure many people DO see that way Rev. However, as i understand it, as defined by Merriam Webster

ignorance: the state of being ignorant: lack of knowledge, education or awareness
What, pray tell, does constitute ignorance? If not what you have described?

[Love Monkey]

I agree with Abbey. School uniforms solve all sorts of problems. Besides, they look nice. Also puts everybody on the same playing field when it comes to dress. I've seen kids laughed at because they couldn't afford $100.00 sneakers or the "trendy" shit kids decide is cool. A school uniform makes everybody equal when it comes to dress. It's what the Love Monkey recommends.

[revelarts]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. The confederate flag represents southern pride; not slavery-- people who believe otherwise ARE ignorant and/or racist. ....

looks like your saying people are Ignorant if they don't know that the flag stands for southern pride... not slavery. Most people have heard that and are not ignorant of that point.



...If someone wore a shirt that said 'black and proud' or 'FUBU' apparel, that's racist too if you think about it; but would it receive the same scrutiny? I'm all for dress codes, esp. uniforms; else you run afoul, showing preferential treatment.
"Black and Proud" doesn't really denote racial superiority and the like, at at least as far as i know. James Brown didn't mean it that way I'm sure, (I know what song is going up in song thread next) FUBU I thought was slang for FUBAR clothing or something or rap style of something, didn't know it was racist.
but the confederate flag is used AS AN OVERTLY racist symbol. another case of bad behavior on racist part messing the use of a flag for everybody.
But dress code would cover it.

[ConHog]

I agree with Abbey. School uniforms solve all sorts of problems. Besides, they look nice. Also puts everybody on the same playing field when it comes to dress. I've seen kids laughed at because they couldn't afford $100.00 sneakers or the "trendy" shit kids decide is cool. A school uniform makes everybody equal when it comes to dress. It's what the Love Monkey recommends.

That is definitely one of the reasons I would favor a dress code. I mean hell, we area already at our school providing food and showers for many children may as well dress them to. And sadly yes there are many kids who attend our school who don't get to bathe until they get to school. Most of that is because of loser parents.

[logroller]

looks like your saying people are Ignorant if they don't know that the flag stands for southern pride... not slavery. Most people have heard that and are not ignorant of that point.

I'm saying ignorance doesn't go away because you ignore it or seek to suppress it-both actually promulgate ignorance. To overcome ignorance you need promote the positive values-- not oppress the negative.

To say the Confederate flag represents the Southern Confederacy, and therefore represents slavery, is akin to saying the American flag on Cinco de Mayo represents no taxation without representation. Why would Hispanics care about that; unless of course, they are able to see beyond the original sentiment?

Just seems like you can't have it both ways. Like people want to celebrate Christmas at schools and sing Christmas songs; well, athiests, Jewish and Muslim people might have a prob with that-- say it should be a "holiday"; or celebrating Halloween in schools, some Christians have a problem with that, saying it should be a "harvest festival". How far are we to go to protect everybody's feelings? Maybe Christmas is just a time to celebrate love a show thanks for the gifts we are given; and Halloween just a time to dress up and cut loose after a long season of toils and production. Not about how those things can, have been and still are utilized for malevolence by a select few.

[revelarts]

I'm saying ignorance doesn't go away because you ignore it or seek to suppress it-both actually promulgate ignorance. To overcome ignorance you need promote the positive values-- not oppress the negative.

To say the Confederate flag represents the Southern Confederacy, and therefore represents slavery, is akin to saying the American flag on Cinco de Mayo represents no taxation without representation. Why would Hispanics care about that; unless of course, they are able to see beyond the original sentiment?

Just seems like you can't have it both ways. Like people want to celebrate Christmas at schools and sing Christmas songs; well, athiests, Jewish and Muslim people might have a prob with that-- say it should be a "holiday"; or celebrating Halloween in schools, some Christians have a problem with that, saying it should be a "harvest festival". How far are we to go to protect everybody's feelings? Maybe Christmas is just a time to celebrate love a show thanks for the gifts we are given; and Halloween just a time to dress up and cut loose after a long season of toils and production. Not about how those things can, have been and still are utilized for malevolence by a select few.
All due respect log but "To say the Confederate flag represents the Southern Confederacy, and therefore represents slavery, is akin to saying the American flag on Cinco de Mayo represents no taxation without representation." doesn't really fly. The Confederacy fought the war to keep slavery legal. the only significant difference in the confederate constitution and the U.S. constitution are the bits about slavery. Sure it was states rights, but states rights to continue to own slaves. I know blacks whos grandmothers and great grandfathers were slaves i know whites that have shown me legders of their familiy that show how many slaves they owned. After slavery the flag was used regularly to declare not just southern pride but racism and defiance to civil rights laws for many people living and raising families today. So it's not some distant misuse. And all positive connotations only hold for one group. I think it still may be a generation or 2 before blacks might be able to tolerate the Confederate flag as a symbol of pride of any kind. As far as protecting people feelings go I'm not sure how long, but acknowledging the sentiments isn't going to cost anyone anything.
just as the jews would be shocked at a nazi flag and see it as MEANING death camps, while some few might think of there father in lufwaffaw with some pride of country even though nazi. some wounds are deep an stir up animosities that can't be brushed off.
what if some kid wore an I heart Alquida tee shirt but his, Alqueda father only fought the Russians in Afghanistan. How long is he going to have to bear the feelings of Americans?

[Trigg]

The confederate flag is sold all over the south and has everything to do with southern pride.

The people who have a problem with confederate flag clothing are northerners who've never been south and don't understand the pride associated with it.

Yes, some racist organizations have hijacked it, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't be able to wear it on clothing.

[ConHog]

The confederate flag is sold all over the south and has everything to do with southern pride.

The people who have a problem with confederate flag clothing are northerners who've never been south and don't understand the pride associated with it.

Yes, some racist organizations have hijacked it, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't be able to wear it on clothing.

Bullcrap, can you name me a single other people who were defeated in a war over one hundred years ago who go around flying a flag screaming that they will rise again? My family is as southern as fried chicken and friend we manage to show pride without ever flying the confederate flag, because of the connotation of the flag. It's RACIST, period. The governmnet that flew that flag (well not really they flew a different flab, but............) was formed to protect the institution of SLAVERY. Anyone who tells you that the Civil War wasn't about SLAVERY is lying or ignorant. Yes there were other issues, but the primary reason was the difference in opinion over slavery. THAT is why the flag is viewed as a racist symbol.

[jimnyc]

So if one has grandparents or other family that fought for the confederacy, and they didn't have a hint of racism in them, families aren't allowed to show their support of those who fought and/or died on the battlefield? There was a HELL OF A LOT more to the confederacy than just slavery. And I disagree with a few here, I see nothing wrong with southerners flying the flag which has come to be known as "southern pride". To immediately assume that the person wearing/showing the flag is racist is what is ignorant.

If they told me to take it off, I would happily do so, while wearing this underneath:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQfsMfRbbapfOkWY4mNFH5urFqHjkIMR VR8Ock4K3u2cBXBGnxBobzoWfwdFQ

[logroller]

Bullcrap, can you name me a single other people who were defeated in a war over one hundred years ago who go around flying a flag screaming that they will rise again? My family is as southern as fried chicken and friend we manage to show pride without ever flying the confederate flag, because of the connotation of the flag. It's RACIST, period. The governmnet that flew that flag (well not really they flew a different flab, but............) was formed to protect the institution of SLAVERY. Anyone who tells you that the Civil War wasn't about SLAVERY is lying or ignorant. Yes there were other issues, but the primary reason was the difference in opinion over slavery. THAT is why the flag is viewed as a racist symbol.

http://concrave.com/content/00128-teen-suspended-removing-mexican-flag-texas-high-school

[Gunny]

Wearing a confederate flag is NOT the same thing as wearing a Mexican flag, or a US flag, or an Irish flag. It's more akin to wearing a swastika.

Does that mean everyone who sports a confederate flag supports slavery? Of course not , just like not everyone who has a swastika laying around supports baking Jews, but the connotation is there, and school boards have dress codes for a reason.

I can tell you from experience that it is a fine line sometimes between giving a child some freedom of speech, and keeping things from being disruptive. If this school had black students, and I would assume it does, I could EASILY see a confederate flag being disruptive. Now that's different than say the case were some school official said that Mexican kids may be offended by the US flag , because well the US flag isn't used for anyone's symbol of tyranny over another group of people as far as I know.

I don't understand why this upsets you at all RSR or do you just not understand why schools need dress codes? And that's a real question, not being a smartass for once. :laugh:

Disagree. The Alleged "Confederate Flag" is actually a Confederate Navy Jack. Most of the overly-sensitive goofs couldn't identify the Stars and Bars if they were displayed in their living rooms. The Stars and Bars being the official flag of the CSA.

School board dress codes would be okay if they weren't politically correct selective.

[shattered]

KIds are supposed to be in school to get an education - not make a statement. Just can the ability to wear any shirt that has words, or pictures on it. Simple.

Back in the 80's, they put bans on girls large buckle belts because they could be considered weapons. We lived through it...

[Gunny]

KIds are supposed to be in school to get an education - not make a statement. Just can the ability to wear any shirt that has words, or pictures on it. Simple.

Back in the 80's, they put bans on girls large buckle belts because they could be considered weapons. We lived through it...

Maybe where you live. Not anywhere I was.

EIther they can or they can't. That isn't how it is. If some Muslim kid wants to wear her crap, or some black wants to display his ethnic heritage, fine. If whites just refuse to act ashamed of we are we're racist.

[jimnyc]

KIds are supposed to be in school to get an education - not make a statement. Just can the ability to wear any shirt that has words, or pictures on it. Simple.

Back in the 80's, they put bans on girls large buckle belts because they could be considered weapons. We lived through it...

I'm glad we didn't have uniforms in public schools back in the 80's - what would I have done with all of my Metallica/Bon Jovi/Poison/Cinderella & Led Zeppelin t-shirts?

[jimnyc]

Maybe where you live. Not anywhere I was.

EIther they can or they can't. That isn't how it is. If some Muslim kid wants to wear her crap, or some black wants to display his ethnic heritage, fine. If whites just refuse to act ashamed of we are we're racist.

Every ethnicity and every religion is respected or allowed or tolerated - unless you happen to be a white Christian/Catholic. And if you fit that profile, don't own a Christmas tree too! :laugh2:

[Gunny]

I'm glad we didn't have uniforms in public schools back in the 80's - what would I have done with all of my Metallica/Bon Jovi/Poison/Cinderella & Led Zeppelin t-shirts?

That would be Led Zepplin, Lynyrd Skynyrd and Jethro Tull in my day.:laugh:

[shattered]

I'm glad we didn't have uniforms in public schools back in the 80's - what would I have done with all of my Metallica/Bon Jovi/Poison/Cinderella & Led Zeppelin t-shirts?

My Kill'em All tshirt would have beat the crap out of your Poison tshirt any day of the week. :slap:

[shattered]

That would be Led Zepplin, Lynyrd Skynyrd and Jethro Tull in my day.:laugh:

Back in your day, school consisted of wooden benches in corn fields. Clothing wasn't an issue.:poke:

[Gunny]

My Kill'em All tshirt would have beat the crap out of your Poison tshirt any day of the week. :slap:

And my Skynyrd, rebel flag t would have swamped yours.

[shattered]

And my Skynyrd, rebel flag t would have swamped yours.

You wanna take this out to the playground, toots? :cool:

[Gunny]

You wanna take this out to the playground, toots? :cool:

Anytime. I know who Lynyrd Skynyrd is. As does most of the world. Have no idea who you're going on about. Some 80s hair-metal band, or what?

[shattered]

Anytime. I know who Lynyrd Skynyrd is. As does most of the world. Have no idea who you're going on about. Some 80s hair-metal band, or what?

Nah. Kill'em All is one of Metallica's first albums - pre-radio days. Then again, they did have hair back then, too..

[Gunny]

Nah. Kill'em All is one of Metallica's first albums - pre-radio days. Then again, they did have hair back then, too..

And? Had it. Still like Skynyrd better.

And yeah, they DID have hair back then, didn't they? That went by the wayside .... Skynyrd STILL has long hair.

[jimnyc]

That would be Led Zepplin, Lynyrd Skynyrd and Jethro Tull in my day.:laugh:

Jeff, my oldest brother on here, was a big fan of Jethro Tull back then. I think all I remember was a song about a kid sitting at a park bench with snots running down his nose! LOL Oh, and I remember him popping in the 8 track and we listened to Meatloaf, and I just remembered it as the "baseball song" back then! :laugh2:

[Jess]

Jeff, my oldest brother on here, was a big fan of Jethro Tull back then. I think all I remember was a song about a kid sitting at a park bench with snots running down his nose! LOL Oh, and I remember him popping in the 8 track and we listened to Meatloaf, and I just remembered it as the "baseball song" back then! :laugh2:

Ummmm ... Jimmy? You might wanna re-listen to that song. IIRC, the part you are referring to is about a pervert (with the aforementioned runny nose) sitting on a park bench "eyeing little girls with bad intent."

[Gunny]

Jeff, my oldest brother on here, was a big fan of Jethro Tull back then. I think all I remember was a song about a kid sitting at a park bench with snots running down his nose! LOL Oh, and I remember him popping in the 8 track and we listened to Meatloaf, and I just remembered it as the "baseball song" back then! :laugh2:

The song is Aqualung and it's not about a kid. It's about an old perv.:laugh:

[Jess]

Oh, and the "baseball song" by MeatLoaf totally rocks! :cool:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK-FRac7m58

[Jess]

The song is Aqualung and it's not about a kid. It's about an old perv.:laugh:

Great minds ... run amok. ;)

[red states rule]

Seems to me the kid started a firestorm by wearing this T-shirt; now she can really piss off the school administration is she brings her Bible to class

or hands out Christmas cards after Thanksgiving